You are right, that the translations in German are not incorrect and what a native speaker would probably expect.

I like 'Innenrand' and 'Sicherheitsabstand', but decided to do some research on what translations are used in other software.

Here's what I have found (or not in many cases):

------------------- Canva: Margin: Rand Page Border: ?

LibreOffice Writer: Margin: Seitenrand Page Border: ?

Microsoft Word: Margin: Seitenrand Page Border: ?

Adobe Illustrator: Margin: ? (might not exist as a concept) Page Border: ? Page: Zeichenfläche

Affinity Designer: Margin: Rand Page Border: Seitenkante (en: page edge)

Vistaprint (online print shop): Margin: Sicherheitsbereich (en: safe area) Page Border: Beschnittzugabe (en: bleed area) -------------------

As you can see, only Affinity Designer has a term for both. Every application I looked at uses the term "Rand" or "Seitenrand".

Vistaprint uses different terminology entirely, but I think this has to do with the fact that they do printing. I would avoid terms that imply that Inkscape is *mainly* used in a print pipeline (anything that contains "Sicherheit").

While we could change the term Seite in general, e.g. to "Leinwand" or "Zeichenfläche", I am leaning towards "Seitenkante".

I think it is a clear enough term for a German speaker and I have not found any other translations containing the word "Seitenkante".

Long story short, I would proceed as follows: Margin: keep "Seitenrand"/"Rand" (both terms are used right now, don't change anything) Page Border: change to "Seitenkante" (not just "Kante", as that refers to an edge between two nodes).

What do you think?

All the best, Mohammed

On Sat Aug 10, 2024 at 5:59 PM CEST, Maren Hachmann wrote:

Hi Mohammed,

yes, that's unfortunate that both are the same word in German...they are not incorrect, and in fact the most expected words, but being able to snap to them makes it difficult to ambiguate between them.

There's also 'Sicherheitsabstand', or 'Sicherheitsrand'...but I found those a bit long. Randabstand? Is that a word...?

'Innenrand' could work, too - or calling one '-kante' and the other '-rand'.

Or even just 'Rand' and 'Seitenrand'.

I'm not sure, either. What do other programs call it?

Maren

Am 09.08.24 um 21:32 schrieb Mohammed Chelouti:

...

Hi everyone,

I don't know if I should bring this issue up on Gitlab or here. But I think this mailing list is more appropriate.

I've been trying out 1.4 beta 2 and stumbled over a rather unfortunate German translation.

In the advanced snapping menu, both terms "pager borders" and "page margins" are translated to "Seitenränder".

Given that they both use the same icon, the whole UX is a rather confusing.

I didn't want to change the translation in just that menu and call it a day. Instead, I want to open a discussion on changing the terminology of borders and margins to clearly disambiguate them in German.

Some examples for new terms:

Margin: Seitenrand, Seitenabstand, Seitenrahmen, Innerer Seitenrand Border: Seitengrenze/Seitenbegrenzung, Seitenkante, Blattrand (would introduce a new concept "Blatt" which does not really exist in Inkscape, I think)

I don't love any of them, but this is also just a jumping-off point.

Cheers, Mohammed _______________________________________________ Inkscape Translators mailing list -- inkscape-translator@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-translator-leave@lists.inkscape.org

My two cents to the issue: Old school typographers sometimes used the term „Steg“ for „margin", while differentiating between "Bund", "Kopf", "Seite" and „Fuß“. But I don’t think that a common German user would know the term, because it was used a long time ago (letterpress printing).

So if the terms should be changed, my suggestion is:

Margin = Seitenrand Page Border = Seitenrahmen (or Seitenbegrenzung)

Cheers, Milo

14.08.2024, u 14:47, Mohammed Chelouti m.chelouti@bluewin.ch je napisao:

You are right, that the translations in German are not incorrect and what a native speaker would probably expect.

I like 'Innenrand' and 'Sicherheitsabstand', but decided to do some research on what translations are used in other software.

Here's what I have found (or not in many cases):

---

Canva: Margin: Rand Page Border: ?

LibreOffice Writer: Margin: Seitenrand Page Border: ?

Microsoft Word: Margin: Seitenrand Page Border: ?

Adobe Illustrator: Margin: ? (might not exist as a concept) Page Border: ? Page: Zeichenfläche

Affinity Designer: Margin: Rand Page Border: Seitenkante (en: page edge)

Vistaprint (online print shop): Margin: Sicherheitsbereich (en: safe area) Page Border: Beschnittzugabe (en: bleed area)

---

As you can see, only Affinity Designer has a term for both. Every application I looked at uses the term "Rand" or "Seitenrand".

Vistaprint uses different terminology entirely, but I think this has to do with the fact that they do printing. I would avoid terms that imply that Inkscape is *mainly* used in a print pipeline (anything that contains "Sicherheit").

While we could change the term Seite in general, e.g. to "Leinwand" or "Zeichenfläche", I am leaning towards "Seitenkante".

I think it is a clear enough term for a German speaker and I have not found any other translations containing the word "Seitenkante".

Long story short, I would proceed as follows: Margin: keep "Seitenrand"/"Rand" (both terms are used right now, don't change anything) Page Border: change to "Seitenkante" (not just "Kante", as that refers to an edge between two nodes).

What do you think?

All the best, Mohammed

On Sat Aug 10, 2024 at 5:59 PM CEST, Maren Hachmann wrote:

...

Hi Mohammed,

yes, that's unfortunate that both are the same word in German...they are not incorrect, and in fact the most expected words, but being able to snap to them makes it difficult to ambiguate between them.

There's also 'Sicherheitsabstand', or 'Sicherheitsrand'...but I found those a bit long. Randabstand? Is that a word...?

'Innenrand' could work, too - or calling one '-kante' and the other '-rand'.

Or even just 'Rand' and 'Seitenrand'.

I'm not sure, either. What do other programs call it?

Maren

Am 09.08.24 um 21:32 schrieb Mohammed Chelouti:

...

Hi everyone,

I don't know if I should bring this issue up on Gitlab or here. But I think this mailing list is more appropriate.

I've been trying out 1.4 beta 2 and stumbled over a rather unfortunate German translation.

In the advanced snapping menu, both terms "pager borders" and "page margins" are translated to "Seitenränder".

Given that they both use the same icon, the whole UX is a rather confusing.

I didn't want to change the translation in just that menu and call it a day. Instead, I want to open a discussion on changing the terminology of borders and margins to clearly disambiguate them in German.

Some examples for new terms:

Margin: Seitenrand, Seitenabstand, Seitenrahmen, Innerer Seitenrand Border: Seitengrenze/Seitenbegrenzung, Seitenkante, Blattrand (would introduce a new concept "Blatt" which does not really exist in Inkscape, I think)

I don't love any of them, but this is also just a jumping-off point.

Cheers, Mohammed _______________________________________________ Inkscape Translators mailing list -- inkscape-translator@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-translator-leave@lists.inkscape.org

---

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