Hello, Is is still true that exported PNGs will always have antialiasing? ( http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/FAQ#How_to_suppress_antialiasing.3F ) Maintaining the number of colors in the exported bitmap requires the Cairo renderer, right?
Thanks, John
John Faith wrote:
Hello, Is is still true that exported PNGs will always have antialiasing? ( http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/FAQ#How_to_suppress_antialiasing.3F ) Maintaining the number of colors in the exported bitmap requires the Cairo renderer, right?
I've never seen a request for software to not use AA :) How are you finding the AA a problem?
A way around the lack of 'disable AA' option would be to export the image at a super resolution then resize it down in your prefered raster application, making sure to not 'resample' the image. In photoshop you would use the setting 'Nearest Neighbour'.
microUgly wrote:
I've never seen a request for software to not use AA :) How are you finding the AA a problem?
Look inside bugzilla, there are some RFEs for this feature. The most important use case for no-AA is text on very small size web graphics.
A way around the lack of 'disable AA' option would be to export the image at a super resolution then resize it down in your prefered raster application, making sure to not 'resample' the image. In photoshop you would use the setting 'Nearest Neighbour'.
And I believe "Interpolation" to "None" in GIMP, but this will require serious additional work. For example for text you must ensure somehow the text in the final, resized image will have the width being an exact number of pixels.
AA is also a problem with bitmaps. When you import an image and then export the drawing, the image gets blurred a little. Here's an example. I think it would be nice to be able to tweak AA for every object and specially for text and bitmaps.
Facundo
On 10/22/07, Johan Vromans <jvromans@...2328...> wrote:
microUgly <drworm@...2123...> writes:
I've never seen a request for software to not use AA :) How are you finding the AA a problem?
Too many colours?
-- Johan
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AA is also a problem with bitmaps. When you import an image and then export the drawing, the image gets blurred a little. Here's an example.
Yeah, bigtime -- I was tracing house plan bitmaps in Blender for extruding and it's hard to find/follow a line when it's surrounded by aliased "shadows".
A one pixel svg line -> one pixel bitmap line would rock.
/d
On Mon, 2007-10-22 at 17:02 +0200, Donn wrote:
AA is also a problem with bitmaps. When you import an image and then export the drawing, the image gets blurred a little. Here's an example.
Yeah, bigtime -- I was tracing house plan bitmaps in Blender for extruding and it's hard to find/follow a line when it's surrounded by aliased "shadows".
A one pixel svg line -> one pixel bitmap line would rock.
A one pixel line placed at a distance of n (natural number) pixels from the border of the exported region, will show as one pixel and no more or less. Antialias doesn't make any problems there...
What you want, is that the line is moved a little bit, so that it fits the pixel-raster better... for fonts this is called hinting as far as I know.
David
A one pixel line placed at a distance of n (natural number) pixels from the border of the exported region, will show as one pixel and no more or less. Antialias doesn't make any problems there... What you want, is that the line is moved a little bit, so that it fits the pixel-raster better... for fonts this is called hinting as far as I know.
I hear what you're saying, but in a complex drawing like a plan, I cannot keep all the lines "hinted" without going quite insane :)
/d
:-D Yeah, that should be kind of hard. Actually I was hoping for someone to answer if and how hinting is possible in the export dialogue :-) People who have the problem with fonts that has been discussed here would love it, I'm sure.
I don't much care, personally. Vectors are vectors for me and I use export to PNG only for handing around drafts to people.
David
On Mon, 2007-10-22 at 17:28 +0200, Donn wrote:
A one pixel line placed at a distance of n (natural number) pixels from the border of the exported region, will show as one pixel and no more or less. Antialias doesn't make any problems there... What you want, is that the line is moved a little bit, so that it fits the pixel-raster better... for fonts this is called hinting as far as I know.
I hear what you're saying, but in a complex drawing like a plan, I cannot keep all the lines "hinted" without going quite insane :)
/d
On 2007-October-22 , at 16:49 , Facundo Casco wrote:
AA is also a problem with bitmaps. When you import an image and then export the drawing, the image gets blurred a little. Here's an example. I think it would be nice to be able to tweak AA for every object and specially for text and bitmaps.
Additionally, as seen on the examples posted in the previous email, the colors of imported bitmaps are quite distorted after a trip through Inkscape, and often kind of 'washed' as previous examples showed. Is there a chance of seeing this improved soon? By Jon maybe?
JiHO --- http://jo.irisson.free.fr/
On 10/22/07, jiho <jo.irisson@...155...> wrote:
Additionally, as seen on the examples posted in the previous email, the colors of imported bitmaps are quite distorted after a trip through Inkscape, and often kind of 'washed' as previous examples showed.
I do not see this. Apart from blurring, there's no color distortion. Import both bitmaps into Inkscape and use the Dropper tool to pick colors from them. There's no exact per-pixel match because there's no exact pixel-to-pixel correspondence due to the resampling, but if you average over flat-color areas by dragging you get values which are close within 1/255 of a single channel.
On 2007-October-22 , at 17:51 , bulia byak wrote:
On 10/22/07, jiho <jo.irisson@...155...> wrote:
Additionally, as seen on the examples posted in the previous email, the colors of imported bitmaps are quite distorted after a trip through Inkscape, and often kind of 'washed' as previous examples showed.
I do not see this. Apart from blurring, there's no color distortion. Import both bitmaps into Inkscape and use the Dropper tool to pick colors from them. There's no exact per-pixel match because there's no exact pixel-to-pixel correspondence due to the resampling, but if you average over flat-color areas by dragging you get values which are close within 1/255 of a single channel.
It must be something specific to my system but I definitely see a difference between the original image (which has a color profile embedded apparently - Calibrated RGB Colorspace) and a 1-to-1 output of Inkscape (which does not have a color profile currently). It may be a problem with "Preview", the image viewer of OS X, which is color managed but does not have much flexibility on which profile to use and such. There are discrepancies on how these images are displayed by Preview, Inkscape, Photoshop or Gimp so it seems like a mess ;) I'll try to make a test drawing with photoshop, tweaking the color management options and perform various tests in Inkscape but I am no expert with this at all. Jon could you enlighten us? Do you see a difference between those two images: http://jo.irisson.free.fr/dropbox/camonito-testColor.zip in Preview?
JiHO --- http://jo.irisson.free.fr/
On 10/22/07, jiho <jo.irisson@...155...> wrote:
It must be something specific to my system but I definitely see a difference between the original image (which has a color profile embedded apparently - Calibrated RGB Colorspace)
I searched BUE-caminito.png for "iCCP" which is the marker of a chunk containing an ICC profile and found none. So looks like it's not color-managed and your viewing application lies to you.
On 10/22/07, Facundo Casco <fcasco@...155...> wrote:
AA is also a problem with bitmaps. When you import an image and then export the drawing, the image gets blurred a little. Here's an example.
Just import an image, do not scale it, snap it to pixel grid, and export at 90 dpi. There will be no blurring because pixels of the image will 1:1 correspond to output pixels.
I think it would be nice to be able to tweak AA for every object and specially for text and bitmaps.
If you disable AA for a bitmap and export it at a different resolution, you will get various distortions in small details which will look much worse than blurring. Just try to resize an image in gimp/photoshop without interpolation to get an idea. Do you really need this?
Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Here is another example with more detail. I import the original PNG file and export it at 90 dpi without any scaling. One copy is at 0,0 so it should be pixel aligned (is that right?). The other one is at some random location so it shouldn't be pixel aligned. I don't see any difference between the two. When working with bitmaps what I do is edit the file in another program, save it with the exact width I want it to be once in Inkscape and then import it. I never resize the bitmap inside Inkscape.
Facundo On 10/22/07, bulia byak <buliabyak@...155...> wrote:
On 10/22/07, Facundo Casco <fcasco@...155...> wrote:
AA is also a problem with bitmaps. When you import an image and then export the drawing, the image gets blurred a little. Here's an example.
Just import an image, do not scale it, snap it to pixel grid, and export at 90 dpi. There will be no blurring because pixels of the image will 1:1 correspond to output pixels.
I think it would be nice to be able to tweak AA for every object and specially for text and bitmaps.
If you disable AA for a bitmap and export it at a different resolution, you will get various distortions in small details which will look much worse than blurring. Just try to resize an image in gimp/photoshop without interpolation to get an idea. Do you really need this?
-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org
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On 10/22/07, Facundo Casco <fcasco@...155...> wrote:
Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Here is another example with more detail.
I don't know what you're doing wrong - but I just imported your PNG, placed it at 0,0 and exported at 90 dpi (attached). As you can see, the bottom image which was crisp remains crisp, pixel for pixel.
Yeap, there's something wrong with my setup. I created a new document, made a square pixel aligned, exported at 90 dpi and it gets blurred. See. Anyway Inkscape works great for me except for this little thing and it's getting better with time.
Facundo
On 10/22/07, bulia byak <buliabyak@...155...> wrote:
On 10/22/07, Facundo Casco <fcasco@...155...> wrote:
Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Here is another example with more detail.
I don't know what you're doing wrong - but I just imported your PNG, placed it at 0,0 and exported at 90 dpi (attached). As you can see, the bottom image which was crisp remains crisp, pixel for pixel.
-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org
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On 10/22/07, Facundo Casco <fcasco@...155...> wrote:
Yeap, there's something wrong with my setup. I created a new document, made a square pixel aligned, exported at 90 dpi and it gets blurred. See.
Sorry but that is a very different example from your bitmap blurring troubles. Here you get the outer rect perfectly crisp, though it's paler than black because the lines are not 1px wide. All other lines use AA and there's no way to avoid this. See http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Inkscape_Wiki:FAQ#How_to_suppress_an...
Well, _I_ do... ;-) I'm creating a "splash-screen" for a windows program and the software displaying it, can't handle transparencies other then completely transparent/completely colored. I've created some rounded shapes in Inkscape and then I exported it to PNG. Now I need a hard edge, otherwise the edge might look fringed if the user has the "wrong" desktop-color. So, I'd choose to have a jagged border instead. At this point, it means that I nead to tweak INKSCAPE's PNG output more or less by hand, painting individual pixels.
Why, one might wonder, did I start using rounded shapes in the beginning? Well, I _thought_ our program supported alpha-transparencies, and now my collegues want to stick with the rounded shapes... :-S
Regards,
Maarten
-----Original Message----- From: inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net on behalf of bulia byak Sent: Mon 22-Oct-07 17:39 To: Inkscape User Community Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] PNG export without antialiasing
On 10/22/07, Facundo Casco <fcasco@...155...> wrote:
AA is also a problem with bitmaps. When you import an image and then export the drawing, the image gets blurred a little. Here's an example.
Just import an image, do not scale it, snap it to pixel grid, and export at 90 dpi. There will be no blurring because pixels of the image will 1:1 correspond to output pixels.
I think it would be nice to be able to tweak AA for every object and specially for text and bitmaps.
If you disable AA for a bitmap and export it at a different resolution, you will get various distortions in small details which will look much worse than blurring. Just try to resize an image in gimp/photoshop without interpolation to get an idea. Do you really need this?
Maarten van der Velde wrote:
Now I need a hard edge, otherwise the edge might look fringed if the user has the "wrong" desktop-color. So, I'd choose to have a jagged border instead.
Did you try my suggestion of exporting the image at a very very large size, and then resize it in a raster application, ensuring you don't resample the pixels?
Here's an example - http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3476/circleaanoaakt7.png
The left circle was standard export from Inkscape. The right circle was exported at a much larger resolution and then scaled down in a raster program.
On 10/22/07, microUgly <drworm@...2123...> wrote:
Maarten van der Velde wrote:
Now I need a hard edge, otherwise the edge might look fringed if the user has the "wrong" desktop-color. So, I'd choose to have a jagged border instead.
Did you try my suggestion of exporting the image at a very very large size, and then resize it in a raster application, ensuring you don't resample the pixels?
Here's an example - http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3476/circleaanoaakt7.png
The left circle was standard export from Inkscape. The right circle was exported at a much larger resolution and then scaled down in a raster program.
...
I tried this and got better results. The less fiddling with the output image pixels by hand, the better.
Thanks for the suggestion!
, John
On 10/21/07, microUgly <drworm@...2123...> wrote:
John Faith wrote:
Hello, Is is still true that exported PNGs will always have antialiasing? ( http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/FAQ#How_to_suppress_antialiasing.3F ) Maintaining the number of colors in the exported bitmap requires the Cairo renderer, right?
I've never seen a request for software to not use AA :) How are you finding the AA a problem?
A couple of friends manufacture jewelry using software which reads a special 2D image and drives a milling machine. The color of each pixel in the drawing signifies the depth of the cut at that point, so any artwork with too many colors will result in bad parts. Antialiased images must be cleaned up before being sent to the mill. If, for example, I create an orange oval with a black border, I just want 2 colors in the PNG for 2 levels of cut in the physical part.
I'd like to have a workflow like this: design in Inkscape, export to PNG, import in milling application, cut stuff.
A way around the lack of 'disable AA' option would be to export the image at a super resolution then resize it down in your prefered raster application, making sure to not 'resample' the image. In photoshop you would use the setting 'Nearest Neighbour'.
Yup, there are ways in image editors to reduce colors, but I was hoping to skip this step in the process.
Thanks, John
participants (10)
-
bulia byak -
David Christian Berg -
Donn -
Facundo Casco -
jiho -
Johan Vromans -
John Faith -
Maarten van der Velde -
microUgly -
Nicu Buculei