I've made a pre-release to signify our increasingly frozen state. This image is more intended to help packagers to ensure that our tarballs are of good quality to make packages and to help users find bugs so that we release with as few as possible. This is not recommended for production work.
=== Tarballs and zips ===
https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=93438&package_id=...
=== MD5 Sums ===
7c794ec299573da3769dbcab1ff73182 inkscape-0.47pre0.tar.bz2 4ce7b7c349f5999ff4b233d952c132c7 inkscape-0.47pre0.tar.bz2.asc cd38689df58b7e37d17b69639fa4076b inkscape-0.47pre0.tar.gz d71511bc4684ff7204ec6c0c3dc789c4 inkscape-0.47pre0.tar.gz.asc 71cb667999b1cabac197c951a52e8219 inkscape-0.47pre0.zip ae6d202080e22334b3188f10814ed328 inkscape-0.47pre0.zip.asc
I think that's it. Thanks from everyone for putting work into this. A very exciting release is starting to take shape.
--Ted
do you mean the undo history? its in SVN under edit>undo history...
2009/6/12 Felipe Sanches <felipe.sanches@...155...>:
Some time back, someone from some university developed an undo system for Inkscape. Would that be included in the final release?
Probably not. I havent seen it in our svn repository, so it wont be in our release. And it can't be added now in the middle of a release process.
Juca
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
hmmm... cool! but I see an issue there...
if you select a "past revision" and edit it, every future revision (relative to it) is lost. It should either branch the history or warn the user that some work will be definetly lost.
Juca
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:03 PM, john cliff <john.cliff@...155...> wrote:
do you mean the undo history? its in SVN under edit>undo history...
2009/6/12 Felipe Sanches <felipe.sanches@...155...>:
Some time back, someone from some university developed an undo system for Inkscape. Would that be included in the final release?
Probably not. I havent seen it in our svn repository, so it wont be in
our
release. And it can't be added now in the middle of a release process.
Juca
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
This behaviour is exactly the same in all other packages, if I'm not mistaken. I may be wrong... /Jimmy Volatile
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Felipe Sanches <felipe.sanches@...155...>wrote:
hmmm... cool! but I see an issue there...
if you select a "past revision" and edit it, every future revision (relative to it) is lost. It should either branch the history or warn the user that some work will be definetly lost.
Juca
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:03 PM, john cliff <john.cliff@...155...> wrote:
do you mean the undo history? its in SVN under edit>undo history...
2009/6/12 Felipe Sanches <felipe.sanches@...155...>:
Some time back, someone from some university developed an undo system for Inkscape. Would that be included in the final release?
Probably not. I havent seen it in our svn repository, so it wont be in
our
release. And it can't be added now in the middle of a release process.
Juca
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
although I would love some smart multi-level tree-undo structure which remembers at what point in history you deviated and allows you to go back to the branch point and gives you the choice to either follow the 'new' history or the 'old' history *), I've never seen that in practice and everyone who uses multiple undo for a while knows that if you go back in history and change something, you're 'past future' is lost.
So merely giving a warning that changing something once you went back in history will be beneficial for a small number of people, but hugely annoying for the majority. In my opinion you should either produce a nice multi-branch undo history (with very interesting UI- challenges) or leave it as it is. I am aware it is a bit harsh, but IMHO no-one who is doing serious design work with inkscape will be surprised by this behavior, because there is no multi-branch-undo in any (vector)drawing program.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Steven
*) If inkscape would have it, it would be a killer feature, I'd love to help to do the UI-part of it, the programming part has to be done by different minds though
On Jun 12, 2009, at 8:28 PM, Felipe Sanches wrote:
hmmm... cool! but I see an issue there...
if you select a "past revision" and edit it, every future revision (relative to it) is lost. It should either branch the history or warn the user that some work will be definetly lost.
Juca
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:03 PM, john cliff <john.cliff@...155...> wrote: do you mean the undo history? its in SVN under edit>undo history...
2009/6/12 Felipe Sanches <felipe.sanches@...155...>:
Some time back, someone from some university developed an undo
system
for Inkscape. Would that be included in the final release?
Probably not. I havent seen it in our svn repository, so it wont
be in our
release. And it can't be added now in the middle of a release process.
Juca
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ businessobjects_______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
yeah, but you could accidentaly hit a key and unintentionally destroy work. There is no "undo my mistaken undo-history-edit"...
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Steven M. Ottens <steven@...2586...> wrote:
although I would love some smart multi-level tree-undo structure which remembers at what point in history you deviated and allows you to go back to the branch point and gives you the choice to either follow the 'new' history or the 'old' history *), I've never seen that in practice and everyone who uses multiple undo for a while knows that if you go back in history and change something, you're 'past future' is lost.
So merely giving a warning that changing something once you went back in history will be beneficial for a small number of people, but hugely annoying for the majority. In my opinion you should either produce a nice multi-branch undo history (with very interesting UI- challenges) or leave it as it is. I am aware it is a bit harsh, but IMHO no-one who is doing serious design work with inkscape will be surprised by this behavior, because there is no multi-branch-undo in any (vector)drawing program.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Steven
*) If inkscape would have it, it would be a killer feature, I'd love to help to do the UI-part of it, the programming part has to be done by different minds though
On Jun 12, 2009, at 8:28 PM, Felipe Sanches wrote:
hmmm... cool! but I see an issue there...
if you select a "past revision" and edit it, every future revision (relative to it) is lost. It should either branch the history or warn the user that some work will be definetly lost.
Juca
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:03 PM, john cliff <john.cliff@...155...> wrote: do you mean the undo history? its in SVN under edit>undo history...
2009/6/12 Felipe Sanches <felipe.sanches@...155...>:
Some time back, someone from some university developed an undo
system
for Inkscape. Would that be included in the final release?
Probably not. I havent seen it in our svn repository, so it wont
be in our
release. And it can't be added now in the middle of a release process.
Juca
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ businessobjects_______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
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that's true, but it is a two step error: 1. hit the undo button (stuff changes, although maybe outside perception) 2. change something
Already the redo button un-greys when you hit undo, so there is (albeit a small) visual clue that you did hit undo and that you are now working on a historical timeline. So while I do see the benefit of having a 'undo my mistaken undo- history-edit' option, I don't see an easy way to either prevent the error, or make it an option. But I might be wrong and both from a UI point of view or a code point of view I'd love to get solutions
Steven
On Jun 12, 2009, at 9:10 PM, Felipe Sanches wrote:
yeah, but you could accidentaly hit a key and unintentionally destroy work. There is no "undo my mistaken undo-history-edit"...
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Steven M. Ottens <steven@...2586...> wrote: although I would love some smart multi-level tree-undo structure which remembers at what point in history you deviated and allows you to go back to the branch point and gives you the choice to either follow the 'new' history or the 'old' history *), I've never seen that in practice and everyone who uses multiple undo for a while knows that if you go back in history and change something, you're 'past future' is lost.
So merely giving a warning that changing something once you went back in history will be beneficial for a small number of people, but hugely annoying for the majority. In my opinion you should either produce a nice multi-branch undo history (with very interesting UI- challenges) or leave it as it is. I am aware it is a bit harsh, but IMHO no-one who is doing serious design work with inkscape will be surprised by this behavior, because there is no multi-branch-undo in any (vector)drawing program.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Steven
*) If inkscape would have it, it would be a killer feature, I'd love to help to do the UI-part of it, the programming part has to be done by different minds though
On Jun 12, 2009, at 8:28 PM, Felipe Sanches wrote:
hmmm... cool! but I see an issue there...
if you select a "past revision" and edit it, every future revision (relative to it) is lost. It should either branch the history or warn the user that some work will be definetly lost.
Juca
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:03 PM, john cliff <john.cliff@...155...> wrote: do you mean the undo history? its in SVN under edit>undo history...
2009/6/12 Felipe Sanches <felipe.sanches@...155...>:
Some time back, someone from some university developed an undo
system
for Inkscape. Would that be included in the final release?
Probably not. I havent seen it in our svn repository, so it wont
be in our
release. And it can't be added now in the middle of a release process.
Juca
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables
unlimited
royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally
facing
server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ businessobjects_______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ businessobjects_______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Ok. Suggestion: Always give priority to oldests history when re-doing.
If the user does 10 undos and 2 re-dos he'd be at "undo-step" 8. He then does some operation, say, move a shape 1 pixel. He's now at step 1 of a new branch of actions. He presses undo 1 or more times, going back to the original history branching point or even beyond. The newest branch is at this point deleted and if the user presses redo again 8+ times, he'll be back at where he started before undo-ing.
I do not know if this is a good idea but at least it is non-intrusive to the user....
/JimmyVolatile
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Felipe Sanches <felipe.sanches@...155...>wrote:
yeah, but you could accidentaly hit a key and unintentionally destroy work. There is no "undo my mistaken undo-history-edit"...
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Steven M. Ottens <steven@...2586...>wrote:
although I would love some smart multi-level tree-undo structure which remembers at what point in history you deviated and allows you to go back to the branch point and gives you the choice to either follow the 'new' history or the 'old' history *), I've never seen that in practice and everyone who uses multiple undo for a while knows that if you go back in history and change something, you're 'past future' is lost.
So merely giving a warning that changing something once you went back in history will be beneficial for a small number of people, but hugely annoying for the majority. In my opinion you should either produce a nice multi-branch undo history (with very interesting UI- challenges) or leave it as it is. I am aware it is a bit harsh, but IMHO no-one who is doing serious design work with inkscape will be surprised by this behavior, because there is no multi-branch-undo in any (vector)drawing program.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Steven
*) If inkscape would have it, it would be a killer feature, I'd love to help to do the UI-part of it, the programming part has to be done by different minds though
On Jun 12, 2009, at 8:28 PM, Felipe Sanches wrote:
hmmm... cool! but I see an issue there...
if you select a "past revision" and edit it, every future revision (relative to it) is lost. It should either branch the history or warn the user that some work will be definetly lost.
Juca
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:03 PM, john cliff <john.cliff@...155...> wrote: do you mean the undo history? its in SVN under edit>undo history...
2009/6/12 Felipe Sanches <felipe.sanches@...155...>:
Some time back, someone from some university developed an undo
system
for Inkscape. Would that be included in the final release?
Probably not. I havent seen it in our svn repository, so it wont
be in our
release. And it can't be added now in the middle of a release process.
Juca
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
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Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Hm, that is an interesting approach. I vaguely remember a program which did register undo steps in the history, generating a linear history, even after pressing undo a few times and doing something else. This way undo is another action which can be undone, even after multiple edits once actions are undone.
This is a slight deviation from the general undo, but nothing intrusive, besides it can easily be undone once an user makes a mistake. So I quite like the idea, but since I'm just a mere user of inkscape I wouldn't know if it is feasible to integrate such an option.
I guess the best approach is to check if there is already a ticket on the history approach and add comments, or create a new one and attach the important bits of the discussion.
Steven
On Jun 12, 2009, at 9:47 PM, JimmyVolatile wrote:
Ok. Suggestion: Always give priority to oldests history when re-doing.
If the user does 10 undos and 2 re-dos he'd be at "undo-step" 8. He then does some operation, say, move a shape 1 pixel. He's now at step 1 of a new branch of actions. He presses undo 1 or more times, going back to the original history branching point or even beyond. The newest branch is at this point deleted and if the user presses redo again 8+ times, he'll be back at where he started before undo- ing.
I do not know if this is a good idea but at least it is non- intrusive to the user....
/JimmyVolatile
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Felipe Sanches <felipe.sanches@...155...> wrote: yeah, but you could accidentaly hit a key and unintentionally destroy work. There is no "undo my mistaken undo-history-edit"...
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Steven M. Ottens <steven@...2586...> wrote: although I would love some smart multi-level tree-undo structure which remembers at what point in history you deviated and allows you to go back to the branch point and gives you the choice to either follow the 'new' history or the 'old' history *), I've never seen that in practice and everyone who uses multiple undo for a while knows that if you go back in history and change something, you're 'past future' is lost.
So merely giving a warning that changing something once you went back in history will be beneficial for a small number of people, but hugely annoying for the majority. In my opinion you should either produce a nice multi-branch undo history (with very interesting UI- challenges) or leave it as it is. I am aware it is a bit harsh, but IMHO no-one who is doing serious design work with inkscape will be surprised by this behavior, because there is no multi-branch-undo in any (vector)drawing program.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Steven
*) If inkscape would have it, it would be a killer feature, I'd love to help to do the UI-part of it, the programming part has to be done by different minds though
On Jun 12, 2009, at 8:28 PM, Felipe Sanches wrote:
hmmm... cool! but I see an issue there...
if you select a "past revision" and edit it, every future revision (relative to it) is lost. It should either branch the history or warn the user that some work will be definetly lost.
Juca
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:03 PM, john cliff <john.cliff@...155...> wrote: do you mean the undo history? its in SVN under edit>undo history...
2009/6/12 Felipe Sanches <felipe.sanches@...155...>:
Some time back, someone from some university developed an undo
system
for Inkscape. Would that be included in the final release?
Probably not. I havent seen it in our svn repository, so it wont
be in our
release. And it can't be added now in the middle of a release process.
Juca
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables
unlimited
royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally
facing
server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
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-- Mvh
Jarl Arntzen » +47 97082449 » Skype: jarlarntzen
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Actually, I think the slight deviation from normal undo behaviour can be made even less intrusive depending on the number of "new-branch steps" are permitted before the original history branch is deleted.
Even limiting this to only 1-2 steps would in most cases solve the problem pointed out by Felipe while still remaining totally non-intrusive.
This also increases the chance of someone stumbling across the function but, of course shouldn't prevent us from clearly documenting it.
Finally, also including selection-actions in the undo-history (like in Blender) would also enhance it very much, although that's probably a different discussion. *Example*: In Inkscape, select 5-20+ single path nodes, shapes or similar and then *accidentally* click on the canvas or somewhere else in the shape and poof, all nodes are unselected. As the number of selected points increases, so does also the fear of missing the next point with the resulting in having to start the selection procedure again from the start. Another way would of course be to allow clicks inside the shape or on the canvas without de-selecting the currently selected points. *Furthermore *Shift+Click on a node currently toggles its selected state. However, Shift+Drag-selection does only select nodes or shapes but does not toggle between the selection states. In my daily work, I actually do this quite a lot if I'd like to select all nodes or shapes in a particular area of the canvas, then I do a Shift+Drag selection again on a few nodes inside the first selection to exclude them from the selection before I finally perform some action on the remaining selection ( - typically moving it to a different layer below to avoid having to do the detailed selection again for the next action.) But again, this is another discussion... :)
/Jimmy Volatile
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Steven M. Ottens <steven@...2586...> wrote:
Hm, that is an interesting approach. I vaguely remember a program which did register undo steps in the history, generating a linear history, even after pressing undo a few times and doing something else. This way undo is another action which can be undone, even after multiple edits once actions are undone.
This is a slight deviation from the general undo, but nothing intrusive, besides it can easily be undone once an user makes a mistake. So I quite like the idea, but since I'm just a mere user of inkscape I wouldn't know if it is feasible to integrate such an option.
I guess the best approach is to check if there is already a ticket on the history approach and add comments, or create a new one and attach the important bits of the discussion.
Steven
On Jun 12, 2009, at 9:47 PM, JimmyVolatile wrote:
Ok. Suggestion: Always give priority to oldests history when re-doing.
If the user does 10 undos and 2 re-dos he'd be at "undo-step" 8. He then does some operation, say, move a shape 1 pixel. He's now at step 1 of a new branch of actions. He presses undo 1 or more times, going back to the original history branching point or even beyond. The newest branch is at this point deleted and if the user presses redo again 8+ times, he'll be back at where he started before undo- ing.
I do not know if this is a good idea but at least it is non- intrusive to the user....
/JimmyVolatile
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Felipe Sanches <felipe.sanches@...155...> wrote: yeah, but you could accidentaly hit a key and unintentionally destroy work. There is no "undo my mistaken undo-history-edit"...
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Steven M. Ottens <steven@...2586...> wrote: although I would love some smart multi-level tree-undo structure which remembers at what point in history you deviated and allows you to go back to the branch point and gives you the choice to either follow the 'new' history or the 'old' history *), I've never seen that in practice and everyone who uses multiple undo for a while knows that if you go back in history and change something, you're 'past future' is lost.
So merely giving a warning that changing something once you went back in history will be beneficial for a small number of people, but hugely annoying for the majority. In my opinion you should either produce a nice multi-branch undo history (with very interesting UI- challenges) or leave it as it is. I am aware it is a bit harsh, but IMHO no-one who is doing serious design work with inkscape will be surprised by this behavior, because there is no multi-branch-undo in any (vector)drawing program.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Steven
*) If inkscape would have it, it would be a killer feature, I'd love to help to do the UI-part of it, the programming part has to be done by different minds though
On Jun 12, 2009, at 8:28 PM, Felipe Sanches wrote:
hmmm... cool! but I see an issue there...
if you select a "past revision" and edit it, every future revision (relative to it) is lost. It should either branch the history or warn the user that some work will be definetly lost.
Juca
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:03 PM, john cliff <john.cliff@...155...> wrote: do you mean the undo history? its in SVN under edit>undo history...
2009/6/12 Felipe Sanches <felipe.sanches@...155...>:
Some time back, someone from some university developed an undo
system
for Inkscape. Would that be included in the final release?
Probably not. I havent seen it in our svn repository, so it wont
be in our
release. And it can't be added now in the middle of a release process.
Juca
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On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 09:47:48PM +0200, JimmyVolatile wrote:
Ok. Suggestion: Always give priority to oldests history when re-doing.
If the user does 10 undos and 2 re-dos he'd be at "undo-step" 8. He then does some operation, say, move a shape 1 pixel. He's now at step 1 of a new branch of actions. He presses undo 1 or more times, going back to the original history branching point or even beyond. The newest branch is at this point deleted and if the user presses redo again 8+ times, he'll be back at where he started before undo-ing.
I do not know if this is a good idea but at least it is non-intrusive to the user....
I'm struggling to follow the example, but it sounds a lot like the way Emacs handles undo/redo---i.e. they're the same, you undo to undo undos!
It's nice for some tasks, but would be a major deviation from almost every graphical program I've used, and in that regard it's probably a bad UI design choice but it's not so novel that nobody has tried it before.
On Jun 12, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Sam Mason wrote:
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 09:47:48PM +0200, JimmyVolatile wrote:
Ok. Suggestion: Always give priority to oldests history when re- doing.
If the user does 10 undos and 2 re-dos he'd be at "undo-step" 8. He then does some operation, say, move a shape 1 pixel. He's now at step 1 of a new branch of actions. He presses undo 1 or more times, going back to the original history branching point or even beyond. The newest branch is at this point deleted and if the user presses redo again 8+ times, he'll be back at where he started before undo-ing.
I do not know if this is a good idea but at least it is non- intrusive to the user....
I'm struggling to follow the example, but it sounds a lot like the way Emacs handles undo/redo---i.e. they're the same, you undo to undo undos!
It's nice for some tasks, but would be a major deviation from almost every graphical program I've used, and in that regard it's probably a bad UI design choice but it's not so novel that nobody has tried it before.
I'm quite happy with the current approach and don't think for one minute that it has to change for the .47 release. But right now is a good moment to brainstorm on alternative/novel/better ideas to handle history (amongst others). Once the 0.47 release is out, we need ideas how to proceed and we can discuss this while there is a freeze. *) I know there are multiple approaches on history out there and it is good to discuss which approaches work for graphical programs. So while I believe the current history in Inkscape works nicely I like to hear if it could be better and how.
Steven
*) I'm very much a UI/Ux guy but I am aware that a whole lot of people are very busy producing this next release. Still not everyone is busy with releasing and while we're not allowed to change code (other than 0.47) this is a good moment to discuss new ideas I humbly believe
-- Sam http://samason.me.uk/
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Ok.
Previous example expressed using numbers: 1. User performs 10 undos, (-10) he's now at undo history step -10. 2. User performs 2 redos. (+2) He's now at undo history step -8. The entire history is still there as usual. 3. User performs some operation. Normally this would wipe history step -8 through step 1 so the user can not at any time redo those steps. What I'm Felipe is suggesting is that, even if you do at least one operation, the original step -8 through step 1 are kept. As the user performs the operation he would be at history step 1-A of a new history branch. 4. Now, if the user performs a number of undos that brings him back to any history step on or before the -8 (branching) step, the oldest history takes priority again. 5. User finally performs 8 ( or more) redos. He's now back at the original history step 1 (not 1-A).
* In other words*: You could undo 10 times, then (accidentally) perform a new operation, then still be able to press undo and then, finally, press redo 10 times to bring you back to where you started.
(I think the level of intrusiveness could be kept very low if, like mentioned earlier, the number of new operations allowed before deleting "original future history steps" is kept down to maybe only 1 "new/branching" operation. Like Felipe points out, it saves you from those awkward moments of deleting all the future redo-steps while at the same time, it would remain totally invisible to all users performing more than 1 "new/branching" operation.
Sorry if I'm being unclear.
/JimmyVolatile
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 11:18 PM, Sam Mason <sam@...2002...> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 09:47:48PM +0200, JimmyVolatile wrote:
Ok. Suggestion: Always give priority to oldests history when re-doing.
If the user does 10 undos and 2 re-dos he'd be at "undo-step" 8. He then does some operation, say, move a shape 1 pixel. He's now at step 1 of a
new
branch of actions. He presses undo 1 or more times, going back to the original history branching point or even beyond. The newest branch is at this point deleted and if the user presses redo again 8+ times, he'll be back at where he started before undo-ing.
I do not know if this is a good idea but at least it is non-intrusive to
the
user....
I'm struggling to follow the example, but it sounds a lot like the way Emacs handles undo/redo---i.e. they're the same, you undo to undo undos!
It's nice for some tasks, but would be a major deviation from almost every graphical program I've used, and in that regard it's probably a bad UI design choice but it's not so novel that nobody has tried it before.
-- Sam http://samason.me.uk/
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On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 12:37:38AM +0200, JimmyVolatile wrote:
Previous example expressed using numbers:
- User performs 10 undos, (-10) he's now at undo history step -10.
- User performs 2 redos. (+2) He's now at undo history step -8. The entire
history is still there as usual. 3. User performs some operation. Normally this would wipe history step -8 through step 1 so the user can not at any time redo those steps. What I'm Felipe is suggesting is that, even if you do at least one operation, the original step -8 through step 1 are kept. As the user performs the operation he would be at history step 1-A of a new history branch. 4. Now, if the user performs a number of undos that brings him back to any history step on or before the -8 (branching) step, the oldest history takes priority again. 5. User finally performs 8 ( or more) redos. He's now back at the original history step 1 (not 1-A).
In other words*: You could undo 10 times, then (accidentally) perform a new operation, then still be able to press undo and then, finally, press redo 10 times to bring you back to where you started.
I think that would confuse people unless you're very explicit with which path you're following; maybe another example would be better, you draw some picture and make a little mistake so undo once, you then carry on and want to go back and see where you came from. You keep hitting undo until you reach somewhere that you remember and this just happens to be one before your little mistake before you hit redo again to go back to where you were and all your work disappears and you go into your little mistake again.
(I think the level of intrusiveness could be kept very low if, like mentioned earlier, the number of new operations allowed before deleting "original future history steps" is kept down to maybe only 1 "new/branching" operation. Like Felipe points out, it saves you from those awkward moments of deleting all the future redo-steps while at the same time, it would remain totally invisible to all users performing more than 1 "new/branching" operation.
Arbitrary limits like this bad; the reason we have multiple undo levels is because what a computer considers to be a single operation normally isn't when you're the user.
Sorry if I'm being unclear.
Welcome to the joys of email! :)
On 2009-June-12 , at 17:18 , Sam Mason wrote:
I'm struggling to follow the example, but it sounds a lot like the way Emacs handles undo/redo---i.e. they're the same, you undo to undo undos!
It's nice for some tasks, but would be a major deviation from almost every graphical program I've used, and in that regard it's probably a bad UI design choice but it's not so novel that nobody has tried it before.
Actually, I think this solution is particularly interesting because it is conceptually simple: the history is linear and always progresses in the same direction, the undos are treated just like other actions. The same state can be present several times in the history so it might be a little less efficient but from a user point of view it is really straightforward: document state: make blue rect. blue rect change color to green green rect undo blue rect undo (the previous undo) green rect etc.
Having explicit history branches would only have two advantages over that, I think: - it would prevent the existence of undos that undo previous undos, which might be difficult to grasp (but then again, if you don't really think about what is happening, the suite of states of the document feels natural) - if it is ever possible to cherry pick changes from multiple branches to make them coexist in a new version of the document, that would be a clear plus. There are UI solution to which developers at least are familiar to represent such branches: they are used in version control systems: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1047321/version_control_timeline.png Moving from one branch to the other will probably be very mouse oriented but I guess this is not a pb for Inkscape.
Just my 2 cents.
JiHO --- http://jo.irisson.free.fr/
On Fri, 2009-06-12 at 22:40 +0500, Asif Lodhi wrote:
On 6/12/09, Ted Gould <ted@...10...> wrote:
A very exciting release is starting to take shape.
Some time back, someone from some university developed an undo system for Inkscape. Would that be included in the final release?
The undo work that was done at MIT unfortunately was never released out of there. There was some legal concerns as Adobe was actually funding some of the work in the lab. I believe that all the code would fall under the GPL, so it would be useless to Adobe, but I've been unable to get them to mail me the code :(
--Ted
On 6/13/09, Ted Gould <ted@...10...> wrote:
On Fri, 2009-06-12 at 22:40 +0500, Asif Lodhi wrote:
On 6/12/09, Ted Gould <ted@...10...> wrote:
A very exciting release is starting to take shape.
Some time back, someone from some university developed an undo system for Inkscape. Would that be included in the final release?
The undo work that was done at MIT unfortunately was never released out of there. There was some legal concerns as Adobe was actually funding some of the work in the lab.
Ah, that's what I was referring to. Some devs here were excited about that work and their excitement made me excited about its merge in Inkscape! Anyway, I'll wait for the next final Inkscape release. Thanks to all.
-Asif
On Fri, 2009-06-12 at 00:30 -0500, Ted Gould wrote:
I've made a pre-release to signify our increasingly frozen state. This image is more intended to help packagers to ensure that our tarballs are of good quality to make packages and to help users find bugs so that we release with as few as possible. This is not recommended for production work.
=== Ubuntu Packages ===
https://launchpad.net/~inkscape.testers/+archive/ppa
--Ted
Wohoo! Excellent!
Thanks! I'm gonna start testing right away!
/Jimmy Volatile
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Ted Gould <ted@...10...> wrote:
On Fri, 2009-06-12 at 00:30 -0500, Ted Gould wrote:
I've made a pre-release to signify our increasingly frozen state. This image is more intended to help packagers to ensure that our tarballs are of good quality to make packages and to help users find bugs so that we release with as few as possible. This is not recommended for production work.
=== Ubuntu Packages ===
https://launchpad.net/~inkscape.testers/+archive/ppahttps://launchpad.net/%7Einkscape.testers/+archive/ppa
--Ted
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On Fri, 2009-06-12 at 00:30 -0500, Ted Gould wrote:
I think that's it. Thanks from everyone for putting work into this. A very exciting release is starting to take shape.
Agreed! I ran a workshop with some teachers this week - and we had to use 0.46 which reminded me just how far 0.47 has come. So this seems like a good time to remind the whole Inkscape team what fantastic human beings you all are for working on this project and making it the success that it is. Huge thanks to all of you!
The final phase of seeking out and squooshing bugs might not be as exciting as developing new features, but it really makes a difference to the experience of using Inkscape - so thanks again to the efforts going on to bring 0.47 to the wider public. I know there are people out there who won't touch a development version, so the release of 0.47 is going to be a massive improvement for them.
Well done and congratulations on getting to the pre-release stage!
- Donna
On 12/06/2009, at 3:30 PM, Ted Gould wrote:
I've made a pre-release to signify our increasingly frozen state. This image is more intended to help packagers to ensure that our tarballs are of good quality to make packages and to help users find bugs so that we release with as few as possible. This is not recommended for production work.
I've uploaded a universal Mac package for pre0. This was built from a new machine, so it may be a bit rough. Please try it out and provide feedback. Note, it is Leopard only.
Also, I have packaged a universal version built with the native OS X GTK version (thus not requiring X11 at all). This includes and uses the gtk-quartz theme. It is marked as experimental and it is -- I already saw it crash a couple of times. This is probably more of interest to JiHo and myself to start thinking about modifications to the packaging and launching code. As such, I'm probably not too interested in feedback on this one yet.
Cheers, Michael
On 6/13/09 10:51 AM, Michael Wybrow wrote:
I've uploaded a universal Mac package for pre0. This was built from a new machine, so it may be a bit rough. Please try it out and provide feedback. Note, it is Leopard only.
clearlooks engine is missing ;(
console output: 13.06.09 11:30:45 LeWitt [0x0-0xd90d9].org.inkscape.Inkscape 2132 com.apple.console Notice (inkscape-bin:2133): Gtk-WARNING **: Unable to locate theme engine in module_path: "clearlooks", <…> 13.06.09 11:30:48 LeWitt [0x0-0xd90d9].org.inkscape.Inkscape 2132 com.apple.console Notice ** (inkscape-bin:2133): WARNING **: Pixbuf theme: Cannot load pixmap file /Users/suv/Applications/Inkscape-0.47pre0.app/Contents/Resources/themes/Clearlooks-Quicksilver-OSX/gtk-2.0/Scrollbars/trough-scrollbar-vert.png: Couldn't recognize the image file format for file '/Users/suv/Applications/Inkscape-0.47pre0.app/Contents/Resources/themes/Clearlooks-Quicksilver-OSX/gtk-2.0/Scrollbars/trough-scrollbar-vert.png' 13.06.09 11:30:48 LeWitt [0x0-0xd90d9].org.inkscape.Inkscape 2132 com.apple.console Notice (inkscape-bin:2133): GdkPixbuf-CRITICAL **: gdk_pixbuf_get_width: assertion `GDK_IS_PIXBUF (pixbuf)' failed 13.06.09 11:30:48 LeWitt [0x0-0xd90d9].org.inkscape.Inkscape 2132 com.apple.console Notice (inkscape-bin:2133): GdkPixbuf-CRITICAL **: gdk_pixbuf_get_height: assertion `GDK_IS_PIXBUF (pixbuf)' failed 13.06.09 11:30:48 LeWitt [0x0-0xd90d9].org.inkscape.Inkscape 2132 com.apple.console Notice ** (inkscape-bin:2133): WARNING **: Invalid borders specified for theme pixmap: 13.06.09 11:30:48 LeWitt [0x0-0xd90d9].org.inkscape.Inkscape 2132 com.apple.console Notice /Users/suv/Applications/Inkscape-0.47pre0.app/Contents/Resources/themes/Clearlooks-Quicksilver-OSX/gtk-2.0/Scrollbars/trough-scrollbar-vert.png, 13.06.09 11:30:48 LeWitt [0x0-0xd90d9].org.inkscape.Inkscape 2132 com.apple.console Notice borders don't fit within the image
Inkscape-0.47pre0:
LeWitt:~ suv$ ll Applications/Inkscape-0.47pre0.app/Contents/Resources/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/engines/ total 352 -rw-r--r-- 1 suv staff 84544 Jun 13 07:56 libpixmap.a -rwxr-xr-x 1 suv staff 1924 Jun 13 07:56 libpixmap.la* -rwxr-xr-x 1 suv staff 87552 Jun 13 07:56 libpixmap.so* LeWitt:~ suv$
Inkscape SVN 21525 (from modevia):
LeWitt:~ suv$ ll Applications/Inkscape-21525.app/Contents/Resources/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/engines/ total 1504 -rwxr-xr-x 1 suv staff 1518 Jun 10 09:29 libclearlooks.la* -rwxr-xr-x 1 suv staff 96180 Jun 10 09:29 libclearlooks.so* -rwxr-xr-x 1 suv staff 1500 Jun 10 09:29 libmurrine.la* -rwxr-xr-x 1 suv staff 217032 Jun 10 09:29 libmurrine.so* -rwxr-xr-x 1 suv staff 1633 Jun 10 09:29 libnodoka.la* -rwxr-xr-x 1 suv staff 89004 Jun 10 09:29 libnodoka.so* -rwxr-xr-x 1 suv staff 1850 Jun 10 09:29 libpixmap.la* -rwxr-xr-x 1 suv staff 42524 Jun 10 09:29 libpixmap.so* -rw-r--r-- 1 suv staff 36072 Jun 10 09:29 libsvg.a -rwxr-xr-x 1 suv staff 1742 Jun 10 09:29 libsvg.la* -rwxr-xr-x 1 suv staff 38380 Jun 10 09:29 libsvg.so* -rwxr-xr-x 1 suv staff 1540 Jun 10 09:29 libubuntulooks.la* -rwxr-xr-x 1 suv staff 214580 Jun 10 09:29 libubuntulooks.so* LeWitt:~ suv$
On 6/13/09 11:45 AM, ~suv wrote:
On 6/13/09 10:51 AM, Michael Wybrow wrote:
I've uploaded a universal Mac package for pre0. This was built from a new machine, so it may be a bit rough. Please try it out and provide feedback. Note, it is Leopard only.
clearlooks engine is missing ;(
to test it anyway: create an empty ~/.gtkrc-2.0 file (open Terminal, type "touch ~/.gtkrc-2.0" - without the quotes). Inkscape will then use the GTK fallback/default theme and the scrollbars etc. will work again.
don't forget to remove the file before using an older or updated version (terminal: type "rm -i ~/.gtkrc-2.0", without quotes, and confirm).
hth
On 6/13/09 10:51 AM, Michael Wybrow wrote:
I've uploaded a universal Mac package for pre0. This was built from a new machine, so it may be a bit rough. Please try it out and provide feedback. Note, it is Leopard only.
python files missing
With recent snapshot builds, python based extensions worked out of the box, now:
"Inkscape has received additional data from the script executed. The script did not return an error, but this may indicate the results will not be as expected.
The fantastic lxml wrapper for libxml2 is required by inkex.py and therefore this extension. Please download and install the latest version from http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/lxml/, or install it through your package manager by a command like: sudo apt-get install python-lxml"
bundled python package: none LeWitt:~ suv$ ll Applications/Inkscape-0.47pre0.app/Contents/Resources/python/site-packages/ LeWitt:~ suv$
Copying the files (python/site-packages/i386) from Inkscape-21525.app works: extensions are re-enabled.
On 6/13/09 10:51 AM, Michael Wybrow wrote:
I've uploaded a universal Mac package for pre0. This was built from a new machine, so it may be a bit rough. Please try it out and provide feedback. Note, it is Leopard only.
Bitmap handling is broken. Cannot import, open, load, create or write any bitmap formats.
Errors all relate to GdkPixbuf and gdk_pixbuf_<…> functions.
maybe this gives a clue: compared libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.0.dylib of Inkscape 0.46+devel r21525 to 0.47pre0:
LeWitt:lib suv$ otool -L ~/Applications/Inkscape-21525.app/Contents/Resources/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.0.dylib /Users/suv/Applications/Inkscape-21525.app/Contents/Resources/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.0.dylib: /opt/local/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.0.dylib (compatibility version 1401.0.0, current version 1401.7.0) /opt/local/lib/libgio-2.0.0.dylib (compatibility version 1801.0.0, current version 1801.3.0) /opt/local/lib/libgobject-2.0.0.dylib (compatibility version 1801.0.0, current version 1801.3.0) /opt/local/lib/libgmodule-2.0.0.dylib (compatibility version 1801.0.0, current version 1801.3.0) /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.0.dylib (compatibility version 1801.0.0, current version 1801.3.0) /opt/local/lib/libintl.8.dylib (compatibility version 9.0.0, current version 9.2.0) /opt/local/lib/libiconv.2.dylib (compatibility version 7.0.0, current version 7.0.0) /opt/local/lib/libtiff.3.dylib (compatibility version 12.0.0, current version 12.2.0) /opt/local/lib/libz.1.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 1.2.3) /opt/local/lib/libjpeg.62.dylib (compatibility version 63.0.0, current version 63.0.0) /opt/local/lib/libpng12.0.dylib (compatibility version 36.0.0, current version 36.0.0) /opt/local/lib/libjasper.1.dylib (compatibility version 2.0.0, current version 2.0.0) /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 111.1.3) /usr/lib/libgcc_s.1.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 1.0.0) LeWitt:lib suv$ otool -L ~/Applications/Inkscape-0.47pre0.app/Contents/Resources/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.0.dylib /Users/suv/Applications/Inkscape-0.47pre0.app/Contents/Resources/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.0.dylib: /opt/local/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.0.dylib (compatibility version 1601.0.0, current version 1601.1.0) /opt/local/lib/libgio-2.0.0.dylib (compatibility version 2001.0.0, current version 2001.2.0) /opt/local/lib/libgobject-2.0.0.dylib (compatibility version 2001.0.0, current version 2001.2.0) /opt/local/lib/libgmodule-2.0.0.dylib (compatibility version 2001.0.0, current version 2001.2.0) /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.0.dylib (compatibility version 2001.0.0, current version 2001.2.0) /opt/local/lib/libintl.8.dylib (compatibility version 9.0.0, current version 9.2.0) /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 111.0.0) /opt/local/lib/libiconv.2.dylib (compatibility version 7.0.0, current version 7.0.0) /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Carbon (compatibility version 2.0.0, current version 136.0.0) /usr/lib/libgcc_s.1.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 1.0.0) LeWitt:lib suv$
libs for png, jpeg and tiff are not linked?
I'll stop for now - don't know if you mean feedback here or bugreports in paunchpad?
anyway - hth, ~suv
On 2009-June-13 , at 04:51 , Michael Wybrow wrote:
I've uploaded a universal Mac package for pre0. This was built from a new machine, so it may be a bit rough. Please try it out and provide feedback. Note, it is Leopard only.
suv has pointed out a few issues on this one already so I won't add anything for now. In my testing the devel version has been working fine for a while so I don't expect many issues except a few hiccups in packaging.
Also, I have packaged a universal version built with the native OS X GTK version (thus not requiring X11 at all). This includes and uses the gtk-quartz theme. It is marked as experimental and it is -- I already saw it crash a couple of times. This is probably more of interest to JiHo and myself to start thinking about modifications to the packaging and launching code. As such, I'm probably not too interested in feedback on this one yet.
woot! this is great. Even if feedback is not really necessary on this one, I just wanted to point how "experimental" it is currently: - the rendering is slower than the X11 version, albeit better than what I remember (this is probably purely a GTK problem, not an Inkscape one) - menus do not show keyboard shortcuts - menus do not display sub-menus e.g. Edit > Clone > Create Clone can be found from the help menu search but the Edit > Clone menu item is not displayed - keyboard shortcuts work with control. sometimes they work with command... and sometimes they don't ;) - alt based shortcuts don't work yet this is a great milestone. There are issues but the take home message is that it compiles and can be packaged mostly correctly. We need to people to find all those small flaws to be able to discuss them with GTK folks (and the Gimp folks too, who probably hit the same problems a while ago already) and this experimental build will help people do that.
Thanks for your work Michael.
JiHO --- http://jo.irisson.free.fr/
On 14/06/2009, at 4:24 AM, JiHO wrote:
Also, I have packaged a universal version built with the native OS X GTK version (thus not requiring X11 at all). This includes and uses the gtk-quartz theme. It is marked as experimental and it is -- I already saw it crash a couple of times. This is probably more of interest to JiHo and myself to start thinking about modifications to the packaging and launching code. As such, I'm probably not too interested in feedback on this one yet.
woot! this is great. Even if feedback is not really necessary on this one, I just wanted to point how "experimental" it is currently:
- the rendering is slower than the X11 version, albeit better than
what I remember (this is probably purely a GTK problem, not an Inkscape one)
- menus do not show keyboard shortcuts
- menus do not display sub-menus e.g. Edit > Clone > Create Clone can
be found from the help menu search but the Edit > Clone menu item is not displayed
- keyboard shortcuts work with control. sometimes they work with
command... and sometimes they don't ;)
- alt based shortcuts don't work
yet this is a great milestone. There are issues but the take home message is that it compiles and can be packaged mostly correctly. We need to people to find all those small flaws to be able to discuss them with GTK folks (and the Gimp folks too, who probably hit the same problems a while ago already) and this experimental build will help people do that.
The easiest way to do this now is to install a second macport tree as per the instructions on our CompilingMacOsX wiki page then edit the / opt/local-native/etc/macports/variants.conf file to have the line: +universal +no_x11 +quartz
This will cause it to build all packages with the no_x11 and quartz variants if they exist. You probably also need to set alternate applications_dir and frameworks_dir variables in the /opt/local-native/etc/macports/ macports.conf file so that things don't clash with your standard macports tree.
Doing this means you no longer have to worry about having a mix of packages in the tree build with different variants, which certainly makes it much easier than it was before.
Cheers, Michael
On 13/06/2009, at 6:51 PM, Michael Wybrow wrote:
I've uploaded a universal Mac package for pre0. This was built from a new machine, so it may be a bit rough. Please try it out and provide feedback. Note, it is Leopard only.
I have uploaded a new Universal pre0 package for Leopard to Sourceforge. Thanks ~suv for the detailed feedback on the last version. The following issues have been fixed (and changes to the packaging scripts committed to SVN): - Missing gtk2-clearlooks engine added. - Missing Python files added. - Problem with the GDK-pixbufs not working (images not loading) is fixed.
Please try out and report any additional issues.
Cheers, Michael
------ Dr. Michael Wybrow, Research Fellow Clayton School of Information Technology Monash University Wellington Rd, Clayton, Vic 3800, Australia Phone: +613 9905 2479
On Jun 16, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Michael Wybrow wrote:
On 13/06/2009, at 6:51 PM, Michael Wybrow wrote:
I've uploaded a universal Mac package for pre0. This was built from a new machine, so it may be a bit rough. Please try it out and provide feedback. Note, it is Leopard only.
I have uploaded a new Universal pre0 package for Leopard to Sourceforge. Thanks ~suv for the detailed feedback on the last version. The following issues have been fixed (and changes to the packaging scripts committed to SVN): - Missing gtk2-clearlooks engine added. - Missing Python files added. - Problem with the GDK-pixbufs not working (images not loading) is fixed.
Please try out and report any additional issues.
Do you know if it has gtk with extended input support? I know newer 10.5 X11 has it
On 17/06/2009, at 3:53 PM, Jon A. Cruz wrote:
I have uploaded a new Universal pre0 package for Leopard to Sourceforge. Thanks ~suv for the detailed feedback on the last version. The following issues have been fixed (and changes to the packaging scripts committed to SVN):
- Missing gtk2-clearlooks engine added.
- Missing Python files added.
- Problem with the GDK-pixbufs not working (images not loading)
is fixed.
Please try out and report any additional issues.
Do you know if it has gtk with extended input support? I know newer 10.5 X11 has it
I can tell you it is built against and includes: gtk2 @2.16.2_0+universal+x11 xorg-libX11 @1.2.1_0+universal xorg-libXau @1.0.4_0+universal xorg-libXcursor @1.1.9_0+universal xorg-libXdamage @1.1.1_0+universal xorg-libXdmcp @1.0.2_0+universal xorg-libXext @1.0.5_1+universal xorg-libXfixes @4.0.3_0+universal xorg-libXi @1.2.1_0+universal xorg-libXinerama @1.0.3_0+universal xorg-libXrandr @1.3.0_0+universal xorg-libXt @1.0.5_2+universal
It seems that gtk is built with the "--with-xinput" option, but I really have no idea how to test this out within Inkscape.
Cheers, Michael
On 2009-June-17 , at 01:53 , Jon A. Cruz wrote:
Do you know if it has gtk with extended input support? I know newer 10.5 X11 has it
Yes it has, at least pressure and tilt work with my intuos 3. It's been a while since I last tested on the devel builds so that's a pleasant surprise (and probably worth a bullet in the release notes, maybe you could add that together with your work on input devices Jon). I find that the pressure curve is behaving funny though: it is difficult to get very thin stokes and overall it is difficult to get a steady increase in pressure. I recall there was a "strength" parameter for the effect of pressure on the width or something like that, a long time ago, but now there's just a single width parameter. Changing the settings in the driver improves things a bit but to get a correct result in X11 I need insane settings for the rest. Is there a way to configure all that?
Last thing: the input devices settings do not stick from one run to the next, even if X11 was not restarted in between.
JiHO --- http://maururu.net
participants (12)
-
Asif Lodhi -
Donna Benjamin -
Felipe Sanches -
JiHO -
JimmyVolatile -
john cliff -
Jon A. Cruz -
Michael Wybrow -
Sam Mason -
Steven M. Ottens -
Ted Gould -
~suv