Re: [Inkscape-user] SVG and the Web
I totally agree with Nicu.
You inkscape users (and others of course) should start serving SVG on your webpages. Browser makers complain that there is no SVG content out there. I am sure they will more quickly develop their SVG support, once there is more SVG content out there. Wikipedia is a good example. They store their files in SVG format, but server PNG per default. They should enable SVG per default and just server PNG as a fallback. At least one third of the browsers out there can display SVG: Opera, Safari, Firefox. None of them is perfect, but more SVG content would definitely challenge them to complete their support.
BTW: the Webkit people just added SVG fonts support to the developers version of Webkit/Safari. So, after Opera, the Adobe viewer and Batik, Safari will be the next browser implementing SVG fonts.
So, please start using SVG on the web, and direct users to good browsers, such as Opera, Safari, Firefox 3, instead of just waiting for them to complete their SVG support.
Andreas
Chicken and egg: browsers will improve at a slow page until there are no pages made with SVG and we will not create SVG websites until the browsers are good enough. We can wait until the browsers improve (and hope the development will not be derailed by other priorities) or push SVG websites and force them to improve.
-- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ my clipart collection: http://clipart.nicubunu.ro/
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Andreas Neumann wrote:
So, please start using SVG on the web, and direct users to good browsers, such as Opera, Safari, Firefox 3, instead of just waiting for them to complete their SVG support.
Well, there are a few small improvements needed for Inkscape to be a great web authoring tool (the most important I think is a ViewBox, so the SVG scale nicely in the browser window).
And, as I said over and over, I am more concerned with the lack of support in search engines than support in browsers.
I am just learning the inkscape basics(thanks to Heathenx and Richard!) but here is my two cents:
One why don't we build a site(in html so it can be indexed) that will link to all the SVG sites. Perhaps a central point to hammer our point home to the rest of the web would be good??
Also, just another idea but perhaps Wikia would be an answer. This is the new Wikipedia search engine. It had a bad first week with some bad reviews but I think the concept of a human edited search engine is a good idea. Wikia would not have to worry about search engine algorithms like Google would.
-Patrick
Nicu Buculei wrote:
Andreas Neumann wrote:
So, please start using SVG on the web, and direct users to good browsers, such as Opera, Safari, Firefox 3, instead of just waiting for them to complete their SVG support.
Well, there are a few small improvements needed for Inkscape to be a great web authoring tool (the most important I think is a ViewBox, so the SVG scale nicely in the browser window).
And, as I said over and over, I am more concerned with the lack of support in search engines than support in browsers.
Patrick wrote:
I am just learning the inkscape basics(thanks to Heathenx and Richard!) but here is my two cents:
One why don't we build a site(in html so it can be indexed) that will link to all the SVG sites. Perhaps a central point to hammer our point home to the rest of the web would be good??
Imho, this would be a good idea!
Besides, I solved my problem by designing a front page http://home.arcor.de/ccyrny/ in XHTML, and linking to the SVG version from there. The site still need some improvement, but for a start I think this is a good solution. (Another one would be, to detect the browser via JavaScript and forward the visitor automatically to the respective page (as with some Flash sites).
Claus
I have 16 websites, some of them I am going to take down. I can provide hosting for free. It would have a dedicated IP address-Patrick
Claus Cyrny wrote:
Patrick wrote:
I am just learning the inkscape basics(thanks to Heathenx and Richard!) but here is my two cents:
One why don't we build a site(in html so it can be indexed) that will link to all the SVG sites. Perhaps a central point to hammer our point home to the rest of the web would be good??
Imho, this would be a good idea!
Besides, I solved my problem by designing a front page http://home.arcor.de/ccyrny/ in XHTML, and linking to the SVG version from there. The site still need some improvement, but for a start I think this is a good solution. (Another one would be, to detect the browser via JavaScript and forward the visitor automatically to the respective page (as with some Flash sites).
Claus
-- Web design,graphics, photography: http://home.arcor.de/ccyrny/ (English|German) Articles: http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewByAuthor.asp?authorID=2153 (English)
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I made a quick-n-dirty mock-up of my very first svg web site. Obviously it's one big image (300k) which isn't going to cut it. Also, I used the object property (which controls the layout when one clicks on one of my links). :( Next up is how to slice it up and stick it back together via css.
Is there a method for crushing or compressing svg graphics for the web. Hmm...
Opera 9.5 renders the site the best so far.
http://svg.heathenx.org for the curious.
heathenx wrote:
I made a quick-n-dirty mock-up of my very first svg web site. Obviously it's one big image (300k) which isn't going to cut it. Also, I used the object property (which controls the layout when one clicks on one of my links). :( Next up is how to slice it up and stick it back together via css.
Is there a method for crushing or compressing svg graphics for the web. Hmm...
You may consider saving the final SVG as "plain svg", it will reduce the size a bit (but very little) and make use of clones as much as you can.
Also you can use compressed SVG (.svgz) but I noticed it does not work out-of-the-box and I doubt it usefulness in the first place if you have a correctly configured web server using mod_gzip.
Opera 9.5 renders the site the best so far.
http://svg.heathenx.org for the curious.
Is there a method for crushing or compressing svg graphics for the web. Hmm...
yes - as Nicu said - save it as plain SVG (to remove all the inkscape specific markup) and then gzip it and move the .svg.gz to a .svgz file. This should make it a lot smaller. Being XML with a lot of elements and attributes repeated it should be at least a quarter to a fifth of the original filesize. Don't forget to set index.svgz as a DirectoryIndex option if you are doing SVG only webpages.
The other method, like Nicu said, is to configure your webserver with mod_deflate. Here is an example apache configuration for mod_deflate:
#this is to see the compression ratio in the logfile LogFormat "%h %l %u %t "%r" %>s %b \ "%{Referer}i" "%{User-Agent}i" (%{ratio}n%%)" combined CustomLog /var/log/apache2/cartonet.access_log "combined"
<Directory "/some/path"> SetOutputFilter DEFLATE AddOutputFilterByType DEFLATE image/svg+xml text/plain text/html # Don't compress already compressed images SetEnvIfNoCase Request_URI .(?:gif|jpe?g|png|gz)$ no-gzip dont-vary </Directory>
mod_deflate is a little, but not huge additional burden for your webserver but it considerably speeds up loading of SVG files, if you don't do it by hand. It is especially useful for dynamically generated SVG content, such as maps, business graphics, etc.
Andreas
Is there a method for crushing or compressing svg graphics for the web. Hmm...
and of course, if you author your SVG in Inkscape you have the option to save it as "plain compressed svgz" - which is exactly what gzip does.
Andreas
heathenx wrote:
clicks on one of my links). :( Next up is how to slice it up and stick it back together via css.
In my first attempt, I did a combination of XHTML(CSS, bitmaps, and SVG embedded via the '<object ...' tag. In case that the browser doesn't support SVG yet, there's at least /something/ on the page. ;-) I don't use tables anymore /at all /(everything done via CSS).
Is there a method for crushing or compressing svg graphics for the web. Hmm...
In Inkscape, there's an option "Compressed Inkscape SVG/.svgz". I haven't checked it out how Firefox etc. renders those graphics.
Opera 9.5 renders the site the best so far.
Really? With my site, there are problems with the embedded PNG's (with alpha channel). They are horizontally slightly distorted. (Opera 9.13/Ubuntu "Breezy").
Greetings,
Claus
P.S.: Btw, on the Ubuntu forums site there's an amazing number of Ubuntu screenshots http://ubuntuforums.org/g/index.php?c=1 available. I really love Ubuntu/Linux! Especially interesting is the new Xubuntu, which has XCFE as a windows manager. I find it really amazing what one can do with XCFE (and Linux desktops in general).
Nicu Buculei wrote the following on 1/15/2008 1:57 AM:
heathenx wrote:
I made a quick-n-dirty mock-up of my very first svg web site. Obviously it's one big image (300k) which isn't going to cut it. Also, I used the object property (which controls the layout when one clicks on one of my links). :( Next up is how to slice it up and stick it back together via css.
Is there a method for crushing or compressing svg graphics for the web. Hmm...
You may consider saving the final SVG as "plain svg", it will reduce the size a bit (but very little) and make use of clones as much as you can.
Also you can use compressed SVG (.svgz) but I noticed it does not work out-of-the-box and I doubt it usefulness in the first place if you have a correctly configured web server using mod_gzip.
Opera 9.5 renders the site the best so far.
http://svg.heathenx.org for the curious.
Thanks, Nicu.
heathenx
participants (5)
-
Andreas Neumann -
Claus Cyrny -
heathenx -
Nicu Buculei -
Patrick