Aaron,

Thanks for the reply. I did see some of that discussion in the archives and it probably would help on the editing end.

At the moment, though, I'm mostly interested in figuring out how to optimally configure/use Inkscape to do line art as naturally as possible. Right now I'm tweaking the calligraphy tool (because it seems the most promising avenue) and I'm getting fairly limited pressure response on windows xp with my wacom graphire3. I've looked at the online docs and believe I've understood and followed the Inkscape settings directions, but I still get suboptimal response. For instance, the width of my lines seems fairly constrained by the calligraphy tool width setting even though I have tablet pressure set to on. So I'm having a heck of a time finding a setting that gives me both a nice tapered finish to the line, yet still gives me some decent width in the middle of the stroke, if you see what I mean. And my lines seem too shaky regardless of the tolerance setting (or whatever it's called - can't remember as I type this). The end result is that, at this stage, I'm spending too much time node editing the lines I've drawn.

In contrast, I also have Expression 3 and it handles line art really well, and in a fairly natural way. I realize that this is an unfair comparison, of course, but I'd like to figure out how to tweak the Inkscape settings (if possible) to get as close to the Expression response as I can. (Mostly because I'd love to do away with my MS apps.)

I'm hoping that I'm just missing some basics and that somebody can point them out to me. And I realize it's also possible that Inkscape isn't designed (yet) to do what I'm wanting to do.

Thanks again,

Matt

Aaron Digulla wrote:

There was the idea floating around that stroking close to an existing path would adjust it instead of creating a new one. This way, you could quickly fix misstrokes. Maybe that would help?

On 11/15/05, Matt Jordan <matt@...1296...> wrote:

The inkscape version has two issues I'd like to resolve if possible.

1. The lack of line width variation, in particular, the tapering at the

beginning and ending of lines.

So are you using pressure sensitivity? Does it work for you? If yes, what exactly is the problem with tapering lines? Would you prefer a non-linear dependency between pressure and width - for example so that pressure of 0.5 would give a width less than 0.5? Can you describe the ideal pressure/width dependency and in what way Inkscape differs from it?

2. The shakiness of the lines.

Have you tried increasing Mass? With Mass=0.2, drawing lags behind a bit, but slowly drawn lines are noticeably smoother.

The two problems kind of go together. The shakiness seems to be caused by the fact that I'm drawing the lines fairly slowly, so relatively lots of nodes are being laid down. If I draw the strokes faster, they are smoother, but then I can't follow my penciled guide drawing as well. I do realize that I can reduce the number of nodes after the fact, thus yielding smoother lines, but this solution is time-consuming and tedious.

Pressing Ctrl+L a couple fimes after each stroke is easy, and does not require switching to another tool.

Since I'm fairly new at this learning to draw business, maybe the problem will resolve itself as my skills improve.

If that happens, please let us know :)

-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org

Matt

I am confident that you will find what you want with practice. The reason I say this is that the attached doodle just shows a few variations I got _without_ adjustment of _any_ settings, or changing the angle of my stylus. Seems to me that you will find what you want, it may be tedious getting there, but, boy!, we will watch you fly when you make it!

Good luck and keep us all informed!

All the best,

Adam

Matt Jordan wrote:

Hi bulia,

Thanks for the response. I give my responses after each of yours below.

bulia byak wrote:

...

On 11/15/05, Matt Jordan <matt@...1296...> wrote:

...

The inkscape version has two issues I'd like to resolve if possible.

1. The lack of line width variation, in particular, the tapering at

the beginning and ending of lines.

So are you using pressure sensitivity? Does it work for you? If yes, what exactly is the problem with tapering lines? Would you prefer a non-linear dependency between pressure and width - for example so that pressure of 0.5 would give a width less than 0.5? Can you describe the ideal pressure/width dependency and in what way Inkscape differs from it?

Yes, pressure sensitivity does work. The trouble was a limited amount of variation given a certain line width setting. (I keep stupidly saying a "lack" of variation, when I actually mean a limited amount - sorry). Changing the mass setting per your tip below seems to have helped a lot with this problem for some reason. Now I can set the line width fairly high and still get a nice taper at the ends. A nonlinear setting, particularly one where I could adjust the level of nonlinearity, might be a cool feature though.

...

...

2. The shakiness of the lines.

Have you tried increasing Mass? With Mass=0.2, drawing lags behind a bit, but slowly drawn lines are noticeably smoother.

This really helped a lot. Thanks. I'm playing with exact settings. 0.2 gave great smoothness, but the visual lag on screen was throwing me off. I edged it down to 0.08 and I seem to get most of the smoothing benefits with a fairly low lag factor. I think I can learn to work with that.

...

...

The two problems kind of go together. The shakiness seems to be caused by the fact that I'm drawing the lines fairly slowly, so relatively lots of nodes are being laid down. If I draw the strokes faster, they are smoother, but then I can't follow my penciled guide drawing as well. I do realize that I can reduce the number of nodes after the fact, thus yielding smoother lines, but this solution is time-consuming and tedious.

Pressing Ctrl+L a couple fimes after each stroke is easy, and does not require switching to another tool.

True. It still feels a little tedious to me, though, especially when I was having to do it with virtually every line. Luckily, thanks to your tip above, I may have to do this a lot less.

...

...

Since I'm fairly new at this learning to draw business, maybe the problem will resolve itself as my skills improve.

If that happens, please let us know :)

I hope to eventually do stuff that'll make the Inkscape crew proud! :)

Thanks for the response. This was the kind of stuff I figured I was missing, so thanks for the tips and I'll keep experimenting.

Matt

Matt

Your sketch - head_ practice _03 - is great! I bet you are going to do well.

Best wishes

Adam

Matt Jordan wrote:

Adam,

Thanks again for the help and encouragement. And thanks to all of the patient posters on this thread helping the Inkscape rookie find his way. I'm definitely starting to get the hang of the program. The attached image isn't great from a drawing standpoint because I drew it directly into Inkscape without the benefit of a pencil sketch - and I'm at a stage where I still really need the preliminary pencil sketch. :) But it does illustrate that the tips I've received here are helping me get the kind of line quality I want.

Thanks again to all and I hope to have some images soon that'll be worth looking at.

Matt

Adam wrote:

...

Matt

I am confident that you will find what you want with practice. The reason I say this is that the attached doodle just shows a few variations I got _without_ adjustment of _any_ settings, or changing the angle of my stylus. Seems to me that you will find what you want, it may be tedious getting there, but, boy!, we will watch you fly when you make it!

Good luck and keep us all informed!

All the best,

Adam

---

Adam,

Thanks for the reply and taking the time to post some experimentation.

I guess the crux of the matter for me is that I'm trying to bootstrap the calligraphy tool into acting more like an ink brush, and the primary hurdle is getting a predictable tapered start and end to a stroke regardless of stroke direction.

I'm using a Graphire3, so I can't experiment with stylus angle (which I see you have turned on). So I have fixation set to zero for now because, otherwise, I get that distinctive calligraphic look I don't want in this instance (but which, of course, the tool was designed to produce).

I guess another way to say all of this is that, yes, I can get line variations using the calligraphy tool the way it was intended (which is more or less the way you're using it), but doing so makes it (so far) inappropriate for digitally inking penciled comic drawings.

So I'm turning off perhaps the primary calligraphy-like feature (fixation) and trying to get it to react really just to pressure. And what I'm finding is that the line width setting really constrains my line shape. If I set the width to a lowish number, say 0.07, I can get a nice tapered line end. But, no matter how much pressure I apply, I can't get a very wide line weight through the middle of the stroke. Conversely, if I raise the width setting so that I can get a wider line through the middle of the stroke, I can't get the nice tapered ends - they tend to be blunt and squarish.

If I could solve that primary issue somehow, I think I could use Inkscape to do this digital inking. (Sorry for the sudden ending here, but I got a phone call and lost my train of thought. :D )

Thanks again,

Matt

Adam wrote:

Hi Matt

I wonder of there is another variable here, since I get a pretty good variation with my Wacom tablet and using the calligraphy controls, especially thinning and of course the enabling of pressure controls. I am on Windows XP and Inkscape 0.43 (so it says, but the download site did not seem to confirm this ... don't understand this part! Guess it is a pre-release.). Anyway, the pressure controls on the interface work and I have the other settings available for this tool.

I am able to get quite good variation in line thickness. See my Web page http://home.exetel.com.au/adam001/test_bed.html

I may be missing something here? I should say that I can't do the sort of thing you are doing, Matt, I admire your skill, but does the stuff on the Web page clarify or confuse? The line thickness seemed to be a result of variations in speed, angle and the Inkscape settings, which means to me, not having used it a lot but getting good width variation, that I would have to fiddle around a lot to advise further!

Adam

Aaron,

Good thought.

Those settings apply to the stroke, though, and the calligraphy tool seems to basically work by drawing a fill as if it were a line. That is, the calligraphy tool is sort of weird in that the "line" in this case is comprised of the fill, not the stroke. So I can add a stroke and apply line styles to that stroke, but it doesn't seem to affect the ends of the fill.

Thanks,

Matt

Aaron Digulla wrote:

Matt Jordan wrote:

...

Conversely, if I raise the width setting so that I can get a wider line through the middle of the stroke, I can't get the nice tapered ends - they tend to be blunt and squarish.

Have you checked the line style? I'm not sure with the caligraphy tool but the "normal" lines have three kinds of line endings: cut off (square, not extending over the start point), square and round. Try to set the line ending style to round; maybe that helps.