Thanks for the reply, but I guess I wasn't very clear with my original question.

I wasn't trying to suggest the links in the chain couldn't move, just that the individual links aren't distorted. Obviously, just like with a real physical chain, something has to give. So when you move a REAL chain, the links slide against each other, but the links don't stretch or twist.

Maybe a rope or a cable would have been a better analogy than a chain.

In my drawing, my "CHAIN" isn't so much a chain as a series of 2D circles. There's a gap between the circles and the circles don't overlap each other.

And the "circle" isn't just a simple path based circle... it's a group of objects that contains a couple different circles with different stroke width, colors and an X in the middle. I suppose you could imagine a target or dart board. It isn't either of those, but that's a reasonable analogy.

My hope is there's some way to use "Pattern along Path" (or maybe something else), to duplicate the circles along the path, but without distorting the shape of the circles. The gap between the circles can shrink or grow to accommodate the curve, but the circles themselves shouldn't be distorted. Also, once the pattern (circles) is laid out on the path, I was hoping there would be some way to change the curve of the path with the circles on it, again without distorting the circles.

I'm not looking for animation... the reason I want to move my "pattern along path" after it's been created is because I need it to fit in and around other stuff without overlapping them. The big problem is, I need to have exactly 60 circles and I can't tell how many circles "Pattern along Path" will generate until I try it. So, I try it (using Preview mode), count the number of circles and then have to go back and change the route slightly to make it longer or shorter. Then back to "Pattern along Path (Preview)", count circles, readjust... over and over and over and over.

Also, when Pattern along Path places the circles on a curve, the circle is slightly distorted... it's no longer a true circle.

One thing I thought *might* work (and I have no idea if this is even possible), would be something like this:

1. Create a path with a specific number of nodes (60). I can do this manually, but it sure would be nice if there was some way to create a simple 2 node path and then bring up a dialog to "Add X nodes to path".

2. Somehow attach an object (my circle) to each one of the nodes. The center of the circle would be at the same point as the path node.

3. Now, move the underlying path into whatever curve I want, but the circles don't distort. If I move a node, then the circle moves with it, otherwise the circles just sit there or I suppose they could rotate about the center... that would be fine.

Again, I'm just throwing that out there to see if there's a way to do something like that.

Another idea might be to create a path that doesn't stretch. ie, just like a real rope or cable, if you pull on part of the rope/cable it doesn't stretch, instead one or both ends will move. I'd like to do the same kind of thing with a path... if something like that is possible.

On Fri, 10 Feb 2017, brynn wrote:

I'm pretty sure that's a physical impossibility, to put a curve into a chain, without moving the links or making it appear shorter. So such a depiction would not be realistic.

Besides that though, it's just not possible for a 2D, non-animation, graphics program. Because each time you move a chain link, it intersects differently with the next link.

If you've already learned how to draw a chain, then you probably already understand how to make one part of the chain link look like it's on top of the next link, in one place, and in another place, to look like it's under the next link. This is simulating 3d in a 2d medium.

So once you understand that, you must be able to see how much work would be needed, each time you want to change how the links interact. I suggest you try your hand at it :-)

You'll need to look to Blender, or other similar 3d modelling program. But I don't think....well I'm not sure, but I don't think Blender can do animation. For 3d animation, you might need to look at Synfig.

All best, brynn

-----Original Message----- From: Hans Carlson Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 1:53 PM To: inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Inkscape-user] Movable Chain

I'd like to create a movable chain of sorts... I'm not sure how or if this is possible with inkscape (0.91)...

There seems to be lots of tutorials that show how to create a chain using Pattern along Path, the problem is, once the chain is created that's the end of the tutorial. I need to go a step further and actually move/manipulate the chain without deforming the links or changing the length of the chain. Maybe the "Pattern along Path" examples are completely wrong for what I want to do.

To put it another way, take a real physical chain... 10' long, sitting on the floor. I can move the chain around, pull on one end, push the chain in the middle, shape it into an S curve, form a circle with the chain, etc. All the while, the individual links are exactly how they started -- they haven't been stretched or bent or deformed in any way. And while the actual length of the chain can very a little bit it's limited by how much slack there is in the individual links.

Now, I want to do the same kind of thing in inkscape. I want to create a line long enough to hold exactly 60 circles, 20px in diameter with 5px space between each circle. Then, and this is the important part, I want move and reshape this "chain" around the canvas, just like I can do with a path composed of lots of nodes. But, I don't want the circles to change shape. The space between the circles can change a *little bit*, but should be limited... like the links in a real chain.

I'm very new to both vector graphics and inkscape, so I'm not sure if what I'm trying to do is easy, difficult or impossible. I would appreciate some enlightenment.

Oh ok, now I understand better!

There's an Add Nodes extension which offers to add nodes either by number of segments or length of segment. So for 60 nodes, I guess you'd need 59 segments?

As Moini suggested, I think Scatter will work much better than Pattern Along Path, because it won't distort.....I'm not sure if it doesn't distort at all, or if it's very little. But if it's very little, it's hardly noticable. But it would be trial and error (using Live Preview) to get 60 of the copies or clones, by adjusting the spacing and/or offsets, etc. Just like PAP extension, "moving" the path would be undoing the previous trial, edit the path, and reapply the scatter. The PAP LPE allows live editing of the path, but the PAP extension and the scatter extension don't.

Moini also mentioned Markers which literally does attach the marker to each node. However, I'm not sure how complex a marker can be. I just did a little testing, and a group can be a marker, but it doesn't seem to hold the fill/stroke styles(colors). So for example, I made 3 different shapes with 3 different fill/stroke colors, and grouped them. They were converted to a marker as a group, but the resulting marker is all black. I wonder if it might be a bug, but that will take a little more research. The reason I wonder about that, is because if I make a single shape, like a circle, and fill it with a gradient, then convert to marker, it keeps its color including the gradient.

A last option in the list of priorities would be to manually snap the 60 circle things to the nodes that were placed by Add Nodes extension. For your #3, if you used Markers, the markers would indeed move right along with the path. But if you manually snapped them to the nodes, they would not move when you edit the path.

Oh, good news on the marker. I went back and ungrouped the marker I had made. So instead of converting the group to a marker, I just selected all 3 objects and converted. It worked perfectly!

So I really think markers will accomplish most of what you want. As far as I know, markers don't distort when you edit the path.

Sorry for misunderstanding before. Maybe I take things too literally, but we really have had people ask how to bend the 2d canvas drawing into 3d.

All best, brynn

-----Original Message----- From: Hans Carlson Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 5:59 PM To: Inkscape User Community Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] Movable Chain

Thanks for the reply, but I guess I wasn't very clear with my original question.

I wasn't trying to suggest the links in the chain couldn't move, just that the individual links aren't distorted. Obviously, just like with a real physical chain, something has to give. So when you move a REAL chain, the links slide against each other, but the links don't stretch or twist.

Maybe a rope or a cable would have been a better analogy than a chain.

In my drawing, my "CHAIN" isn't so much a chain as a series of 2D circles. There's a gap between the circles and the circles don't overlap each other.

And the "circle" isn't just a simple path based circle... it's a group of objects that contains a couple different circles with different stroke width, colors and an X in the middle. I suppose you could imagine a target or dart board. It isn't either of those, but that's a reasonable analogy.

My hope is there's some way to use "Pattern along Path" (or maybe something else), to duplicate the circles along the path, but without distorting the shape of the circles. The gap between the circles can shrink or grow to accommodate the curve, but the circles themselves shouldn't be distorted. Also, once the pattern (circles) is laid out on the path, I was hoping there would be some way to change the curve of the path with the circles on it, again without distorting the circles.

I'm not looking for animation... the reason I want to move my "pattern along path" after it's been created is because I need it to fit in and around other stuff without overlapping them. The big problem is, I need to have exactly 60 circles and I can't tell how many circles "Pattern along Path" will generate until I try it. So, I try it (using Preview mode), count the number of circles and then have to go back and change the route slightly to make it longer or shorter. Then back to "Pattern along Path (Preview)", count circles, readjust... over and over and over and over.

Also, when Pattern along Path places the circles on a curve, the circle is slightly distorted... it's no longer a true circle.

One thing I thought *might* work (and I have no idea if this is even possible), would be something like this:

1. Create a path with a specific number of nodes (60). I can do this manually, but it sure would be nice if there was some way to create a simple 2 node path and then bring up a dialog to "Add X nodes to path".

2. Somehow attach an object (my circle) to each one of the nodes. The center of the circle would be at the same point as the path node.

3. Now, move the underlying path into whatever curve I want, but the circles don't distort. If I move a node, then the circle moves with it, otherwise the circles just sit there or I suppose they could rotate about the center... that would be fine.

Again, I'm just throwing that out there to see if there's a way to do something like that.

Another idea might be to create a path that doesn't stretch. ie, just like a real rope or cable, if you pull on part of the rope/cable it doesn't stretch, instead one or both ends will move. I'd like to do the same kind of thing with a path... if something like that is possible.

Oh right - I forgot about those options. New in 0.91 iirc. Custom marker same color as object - checked yes. (All 3 are checked.)

So that explains why the group went black. But doesn't explain why the 3 objects not grouped kept their colors. And doesn't explain how the marker made of a circle with gradient fill kept its color.

Oh wait.... For the 3 objects not grouped, one of them did go black. I didn't notice at first, because it was a very dark color, so when it came out black, I didn't notice.

But I guess deselecting that option, then the markers would keep their original colors? Another plus for Hans :-)

Also, I'm in 0.92.

And one more note about markers, which I hope won't block Hans from using it. When the path is curved, the markers are always aligned perpendicular to the path, at every node. So if your path curls around 180 degrees, the circle objects will be upsidedown, on that portion of the path.

Possibly having 2 shorter paths could be a workaround (one reversed so the markers are rightsideup).

All best, brynn

-----Original Message----- From: Maren Hachmann Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 9:18 PM To: inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] Movable Chain

Am 11.02.2017 um 04:52 schrieb brynn:

I just did a little testing, and a group can be a marker, but it doesn't seem to hold the fill/stroke styles(colors).

- What's your preference setting at Edit -> Preferences -> Behavior -> Markers: Color custom markers the same color as object?

A last option in the list of priorities would be to manually snap the 60 circle things to the nodes that were placed by Add Nodes extension. For your #3, if you used Markers, the markers would indeed move right along with the path. But if you manually snapped them to the nodes, they would not move when you edit the path.

Oh, good news on the marker. I went back and ungrouped the marker I had made. So instead of converting the group to a marker, I just selected all 3 objects and converted. It worked perfectly!

- Works for me with a group (0.91), that's strange :-/ Maybe there was something else going on?

Maren

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Am 13.02.2017 um 02:07 schrieb Hans Carlson:

It seems like the option in Scatter "If pattern is a group, pick group members" and "Pick group members Sequentially" should do what I want, but it doesn't work quite right, or I couldn't get it to work. It does alternate between the group members, but it inserts a large gap between each of the group members. The gap between the last member and going back to the first member seems to be the "Space between copies" value, but the gap between each of the group members is much larger and no apparent way to change it.

- You need to center them all, so they are right above one another, using the align and distribute dialog (Object -> Align and distribute). The order is determined by the stacking order.

In other words: The point of each object that will be attached to the path is determined by the center of the group. If the center is outside of the object, then the object is put at a distance from the path.

Maren

Hi Hans,

Am 14.02.2017 um 00:35 schrieb Hans Carlson:

Also, it's kind of difficult to SEE the stacking order of objects especially when they're placed right on top of each other. Is there a way to see if there's anything below an object? ie, object A is a 10px circle and object B is a 20px circle right above it. How do you know object A is even there?

- There are a couple of ways to find that out, let's see what I can come up with:

Main option: use Alt+Mousewheel to see what's in the stack below the mouse cursor

Others: - use View -> Display Mode -> Outline (only works if objects have different outlines) - use the Objects dialog (in 0.92) - use Alt+Click and watch if the bounding box that you see changes (if objects have different sizes)

...

In other words: The point of each object that will be attached to the path is determined by the center of the group. If the center is outside of the object, then the object is put at a distance from the path.

So, if I understand you correctly, the center of the objects being placed is not based on the objects themselves, but rather the center of the group containing the objects?

- At least that's what fits my observations best. I haven't looked at the code. It might even be useful for some cases, if you want to add some 'random'... who knows. At least it can be influenced by what one does.

That seems kind of odd. When Scatter is used the with "Pick Group Members" option, the GROUP is essentially just a way to hold the objects... it's just a container, a bucket. It seems to me when placing the actual objects on the path, the center point for each object should be used, not the center point of the container that it came from. And assuming that was the case, then I wouldn't think it would be necessary for all the objects to sit on top of each other, which would make things a little easier to deal with. The stacking order would still need to be correct, but the objects wouldn't need to be directly over top each other.

This leads into the "well mostly" comment above. I suspect the gap between the objects on the path is also determined by the width of the containing group?

- Yes, that seems to be right. I don't find that too useful, because there's nothing you can do to influence it.

So I updated my previous test to better match what I actually want to do. I added a 3rd object which is a 10px wide X 30px high oval:

- simple path (15 nodes that curves around a bit).
- small 25px diameter solid blue circle with "1" in the middle
- made that into a group of it's own.
- second 25px circle with "2" in the middle, into a group.
- 10px wide X 30px high solid green oval with #3, group.
- set the stacking order: circle #1, circle #2, oval #3
- aligned objects over each other: circle #1, circle #2, oval #3
- grouped the 3 objects together.
- opened Scatter with the 2 circle/1 oval group and the curved path.
- used 5 for the "Space between copies" and then Preview.

Now I see the gap between the 2 circles is correct, about 5px. But the gap between the #2 circle and #3 oval is about 12px, then the gap between #3 oval and #1 circle is also about 12px. Math wise, that suggests Scatter uses the width of the container group (25px) regardless which object is being placed. Wouldn't it make more sense to use the width of the actual object being placed?

- Maybe having an option for that would be better - people might actually want to have objects put at the exact same distance from object center to object center, no matter how big the single objects are.

Seems we're collecting feature requests here - in the forum, there's a similar thread going on: http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=31789

Regards, Maren

Am 16.02.2017 um 02:42 schrieb Hans Carlson:

The main issue with these (other than the object dialog in 0.92 which I haven't tried) is most of the objects I'm talking about are the exact same size. So if I have 5 - 25px circles stacked on top of each other it's kind of tough to visually SEE that.

- Yes, true enough.

Sounds like the 0.92 objects dialog might be the best. Any idea when a MacOSX DMG for 0.92 will be created? And, if there will be one that supports Snow Leopard (10.6).

- It's currently in developer testing stage. I don't know about the versions it will support - but when user testing starts, you can try it out and give feedback to the developer.

I had thought the same thing. Maybe IF the "Pick Group Members" option is used, there could be another drop down for:

Use size/center of [group, members]

- Sounds useful, I agree (the dialog won't be able to adapt, as far as I know, but the option can be there nonetheless).

...

Seems we're collecting feature requests here - in the forum, there's a similar thread going on: http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=31789

Some of that does seem to be very similar to what I'd like to see.

With regards to that forum. Is there something special someone needs to do to get an account. I actually registered on the forum before I subscribed to this mailing list, but never received the activation email. I went to the login page and re-requested the activation email a couple times (once more today), but still haven't received anything. I know the email address is good because it's the same one I'm using here.

- Mmh, that's weird. Sorry about the registration problems.

@Brynn: Can moderators at inkscapeforum.com create user accounts? Or does Hans need to send a message to microugly?

Kind Regards, Maren

To select objects which are underneath other objects (in z-order), you can do Alt + click. But the new Objects manager (in 0.92) might be superior, because you can see something about what's under there, without actually selecting it. Or I'm pretty sure if you select it in the manager dialog, it gets selected on the canvas.

I don't know for a fact, but most likely the Scatter extension uses the bounding box as a measure. So on a horizontal line, yes, the width is the main factor.

If you have a group, and all the objects in the groupe are centered to each other, the group will be the smallest it can possibly be. If the objects in the group are here and there, then it makes the group larger.

You're right, the group is sort of like a bucket. A group is another kind of object, just like a rectangle or path. At the moment, I can't think of any way that a group differs from any other object, except that it's made of individual objects.

If the circle objects are not in a group, then Scatter is going to use each object's bounding box for the measure. It might be that Scatter is using the center or rotation center for the spacing. But most often when spacing is an issue, I've noticed Inkscape uses the bounding box.

I've never used that option for individual objects in a group. But it sounds like you have it figured out in a reasonable way. I'm not sure what to guess about how Inkscape measures the objects in a group. Because they don't have bounding boxes. Well, it almost has to be either bb or center....or maybe width.

I've been thinking that you wanted all the circle objects centered to each other. But if they are going to be kind of spread around, and disconnected it will be harder to manage the whole thing.

Are you having the possibility of these individual circles aligned to nodes? I've been thinking in terms of a small group of circle objects aligned to a node.

Well, by now you might have seen my other message which I sent right be for this message came in. Just some more thoughts and ideas.

brynn

-----Original Message----- From: Hans Carlson Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 4:35 PM To: Inkscape User Community Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] Movable Chain

On Mon, 13 Feb 2017, Maren Hachmann wrote:

• You need to center them all, so they are right above one another,

using the align and distribute dialog (Object -> Align and distribute). The order is determined by the stacking order.

Ahhh... thank you, that does work better. Well mostly... there's still a gap problem (see below).

Also, it's kind of difficult to SEE the stacking order of objects especially when they're placed right on top of each other. Is there a way to see if there's anything below an object? ie, object A is a 10px circle and object B is a 20px circle right above it. How do you know object A is even there?

In other words: The point of each object that will be attached to the path is determined by the center of the group. If the center is outside of the object, then the object is put at a distance from the path.

So, if I understand you correctly, the center of the objects being placed is not based on the objects themselves, but rather the center of the group containing the objects?

That seems kind of odd. When Scatter is used the with "Pick Group Members" option, the GROUP is essentially just a way to hold the objects... it's just a container, a bucket. It seems to me when placing the actual objects on the path, the center point for each object should be used, not the center point of the container that it came from. And assuming that was the case, then I wouldn't think it would be necessary for all the objects to sit on top of each other, which would make things a little easier to deal with. The stacking order would still need to be correct, but the objects wouldn't need to be directly over top each other.

This leads into the "well mostly" comment above. I suspect the gap between the objects on the path is also determined by the width of the containing group?

So I updated my previous test to better match what I actually want to do. I added a 3rd object which is a 10px wide X 30px high oval:

- simple path (15 nodes that curves around a bit). - small 25px diameter solid blue circle with "1" in the middle - made that into a group of it's own. - second 25px circle with "2" in the middle, into a group. - 10px wide X 30px high solid green oval with #3, group. - set the stacking order: circle #1, circle #2, oval #3 - aligned objects over each other: circle #1, circle #2, oval #3 - grouped the 3 objects together. - opened Scatter with the 2 circle/1 oval group and the curved path. - used 5 for the "Space between copies" and then Preview.

Now I see the gap between the 2 circles is correct, about 5px. But the gap between the #2 circle and #3 oval is about 12px, then the gap between #3 oval and #1 circle is also about 12px. Math wise, that suggests Scatter uses the width of the container group (25px) regardless which object is being placed. Wouldn't it make more sense to use the width of the actual object being placed?

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I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. It kind of sounds like

you're saying I can give Scatter a PATH and multiple objects which are NOT in a group. If that's true, I'm not sure how to do it. If I select a PATH and multiple objects, then Scatter complains (a Python traceback is displayed).

You're right, my bad.

I think you had said that these circle objects are going to have text on them (or some of them)? And I guess different text for different circles? I'm just stretching now, but just to cover all the bases.

Say you have 2 or 3 different circle objects. I wonder if it would work to have 2 or 3 base paths, each of which scatters a different circle object. Changing the shape of the path could get tricky, keeping 2 or 3 paths together. But it can be done. Although you still have the problem of keeping the spacing when you re-shape the path. This 2 or 3 scatter path routine would mean adding the text on the circles separately.

Personally I'm still liking the Markers option. When you first tried it, you said "The Markers approach was at first very intriguing, but without the ability to restrict the length of the path as it's being changed, I think it's more trouble than it's worth. "

However, it seems like that's a problem for any of the techniques we've discussed, and along with the problem of keeping the spacing equal.

If you would be able to create a new base path for the different shape of path, rather than edit the original, the markers could be applied equally spaced, as for the original path. But I'm not sure if your plan allows for new path as opposed to editing the original.

It might be possible to edit the original markers path, put it in the new shape, and then use Align and Distribute to space out the nodes equally once again. I'm not sure, I would need to experiment.

That's about all I can think of.

Good luck, brynn

-----Original Message----- From: Hans Carlson Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 6:42 PM To: Inkscape User Community Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] Movable Chain

On Mon, 13 Feb 2017, brynn wrote:

I don't remember which system you're using Inkscape on, or if you have a reason not to want to upgrade. But just fyi, in case you might want to re-visit that option.

Inkscape 0.91 on MacOSX. Right now I'm using an old laptop with Snow Leopard (10.6). I have a newer laptop with Sierra (10.12), but it's got some hardware problems that may or may not get fixed, so I may be stuck with the older system for a while.

But, it doesn't look like there's a MacOSX DMG for 0.92 yet. Hopefully, when there is, it will support 10.6.

If the circle objects are not in a group, then Scatter is going to use each object's bounding box for the measure.

I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. It kind of sounds like you're saying I can give Scatter a PATH and multiple objects which are NOT in a group. If that's true, I'm not sure how to do it. If I select a PATH and multiple objects, then Scatter complains (a Python traceback is displayed).

From what I've seen, Scatter requires a PATH and either ONE object or ONE

group. Then IF you supply a group, you have the OPTION of using the objects within that group. But in this case it still seems to use the bounding box of the group, not the bounding box for each of the objects in the group. This means if the objects within the group are different sizes, the spacing when placed on the path will be different.

I've been thinking that you wanted all the circle objects centered to each other. But if they are going to be kind of spread around, and disconnected it will be harder to manage the whole thing.

I want the spacing between the objects to be the same once they're placed on the path, regardless of the width of the object.

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For Markers, it's a bug in version 0.91, which at least for me, seems to be fixed in 0.92. Inkscape does make the custom marker. But it doesn't show up in the menu until you close all instances of Inkscape, and re-open the file. I know, big pain bug! I don't remember which system you're using Inkscape on, or if you have a reason not to want to upgrade. But just fyi, in case you might want to re-visit that option.

There's another way to add more nodes to a path. I didn't realize that for the number of segments option of Add Nodes extension, that it didn't add them equally spaced. It seems like it should..... Otherwise I would have mentioned this.

For the other way to do it, if you're lucky and the stars are aligned, it's super easy. If not, it's going to get complicated. For a path, straight or otherwise, with 2 nodes, if you select both nodes, and click Add a New Node button (first on the left of Node tool control bar), it adds a new node precisely between the 2 original. Click a 2nd time, and 2 more nodes are added, each precisely between the others, and so on.

Hhmm, but after some trial and error, this can only end up with an odd number of nodes. And I recally your needed number is 60.

Well, there's always making a custom grid or arrangement of intersecting guides, together with snapping

In my previous reply, I had forgotten about the requirement where you want to be able to keep the path the same length (or pretty close) when you move it around.

For Scatter, (yeah, I've always thought that was a weird name for it) I'm pretty sure you should be able to group all the circle objects, and they won't come apart.

The biggest problem left to overcome (besides keeping the path the same length during edits) is keeping the nodes with their perfect spacing when you edit the shape of the path. Unless you can work it out to only make vertical moves to horizontal parts of the path, or horizontal moves to vertical parts, I don't see any way to keep the nodes' spacing constant. I would guess that CAD software could do that, but stressing "guess".

Oh! Just thought of something. It's certainly not an easy way. But should be do-able. Between the new Measurement tool (well, new in 0.91) for straight segments, and the Measure Path extension for curved segments, and using snapping perhaps aided by guides, you can re-set the nodes' positions. But that will be painfully tedious, not to mention slow.

Oh! Something else.....not sure if this would work. But recently someone was asking for a way to have the number and spacing of dashes of a dashed line come out even for a given length of path. Someone else jumped right in and....at least they started work on it. My memory is becoming attrocious! Think was in a forum, let me search.....

Ah yes, now I remember. Jabier signed himself up to make anothe new LPE that will provide that functionality. As you'll see, in this case, it was about it working on a closed path. It seems like it might not be much harder to make it work for an open path, but I really don't know anything about programming. And it's about dashed lines instead of nodes, but it seems like the same principle Here's the forum message:

http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31669

And the feature request: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1659571

I don't know if jabier might be reading this or not? Maren, do you think it would be bad manners to copy him in to this thread? Or maybe I should just comment in the feature request?

Sorry, I guess I went long again.....

All best, brynn

-----Original Message----- From: Hans Carlson Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 6:07 PM To: Inkscape User Community Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] Movable Chain

Thank you Maren and Brynn for the suggestions, I've been playing around with a few things...

The Scatter extension seems to be the best compromise at the moment (more on that in a bit).

The Markers approach was at first very intriguing, but without the ability to restrict the length of the path as it's being changed, I think it's more trouble than it's worth. Using a straight line with 2 nodes and the Add Nodes extension, I was able to get a path containing the exact number of nodes I wanted evenly distributed along the path, but then moving that straight line into the curved path turned out to be too much work. It's much easier just to draw the rough shape of the curve to begin with, then tweak it into the correct shape.

The alternative would be to create the rough path first, then evenly distribute the required number of nodes along that path. I sort of got this to work using Add Nodes and adding by "Segment Length" rather than "Number of Segments". But, it was trial and error to figure out the correct "Maximum segment length" in order to get the correct number of nodes. The result did evenly distribute the nodes along the path.

If I used "Number of Segments", then I could get the correct number of nodes, but they weren't evenly distributed along the path. It seems to add the number of nodes you specify between each of the segments. So then I tried the Align and Distribute dialog, but it only seems to allow you to distribute horizontally or vertically, but not along the entire length of the path -- ie, so the distance between the nodes is the same all along the curved path.

The other problem was, I could never get any object I created to show up as a Marker. When I select the object, then "Object->Objects to Marker", the object would disappear, but it wouldn't show up in the Stroke Style Markers drop downs. I could see it was there by looking at the XML, but never could see it in the drop downs.

At any rate (at least for the moment), I've given up on the Markers approach.

So on to the Scatter approach. First off "Scatter???" -- seems a very odd name for this extension. It brings to mind randomness or chaos, when in fact "Scatter" seems much more orderly and consistent than "Pattern along Path".

Good news is, it does work better for my purposes than Pattern along Path. At least with respect to the distortion of the circles. ie, with Scatter the circles are NOT distorted. I still have the same trial and error problem in order to get the correct number of objects on the path -- adjusting the "Space between copies" and/or tweaking the curve of my path to make it slightly longer or shorter.

The other advantage of Scatter compared to Pattern along Path is that after the objects have been distributed, they all seem to be in one group. So a simple ungroup means I can tweak the position of any of the objects. With Pattern along Path on the other hand, once the objects are on the path it seems to be a series of groups and not as easy to get back to the copies of the original object.

The downside to Scatter is related to something I hadn't mentioned. Originally, I said my path was just a series of circles. Well, that was mostly correct, in truth my path is a series of 5 circles followed by an oval, then 5 circles, an oval, etc. So when I was using PAP, I created a group containing 5 circles each separated by a small gap, then the oval. PAP nicely distributed this along the path, making sure to curve the entire group so it matches the path. Of course the obvious problem with PAP is that the circles and oval then became distorted.

If I try to use Scatter with this group (5 circles, 1 oval), then the group isn't curved, so I end up with a straight line pattern going along the path... not what I wanted. If I use just a single circle then Scatter works fine and I can go in after the fact and replace every 6th circle with the oval and that's not too bad.

It seems like the option in Scatter "If pattern is a group, pick group members" and "Pick group members Sequentially" should do what I want, but it doesn't work quite right, or I couldn't get it to work. It does alternate between the group members, but it inserts a large gap between each of the group members. The gap between the last member and going back to the first member seems to be the "Space between copies" value, but the gap between each of the group members is much larger and no apparent way to change it.

To test, I created the following:

- simple path (15 nodes that curves around a bit). - small 25px diameter solid blue circle with "1" in the middle - made that into a group of it's own. - second 25px circle with "2" in the middle, into a group. - grouped the 2 numbered circles together. - opened Scatter with the 2 circle group and the curved path. - used 5 for the "Space between copies" and then Preview.

What I see is the #1 circle is set at the start of the path, followed by a large gap, then the #2 circle. Then a small gap equal to the "Space between copies value of "5" and the #1 circle, large gap #2, small gap #1, large gap #2, small gap #1, etc.

If I add a #3 circle, it works the same:

- #1, large gap, #2, large gap, #3, small gap, - #1, large gap, #2, large gap, #3, small gap, - #1, large gap, #2, large gap, #3, small gap, - etc

Maybe that's the way it's supposed to work, but it doesn't seem right to me. Seems like the gap along the path should be the same for all the objects in the group.

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Yeah, I'm not entirely sure either. But there are a lot of general similarities, when you think of 'equal distance between equal size objects or elements'. I just think of the 'dash' as the group of circle objects. Equal length of dash relative to equal width of circles group, and equal space between.

Maybe I'll post in the IF topic you mentioned, and maybe there can be some more discussion to help outline what is needed.

Thanks :-)

-----Original Message----- From: Maren Hachmann Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 5:28 PM To: inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] Movable Chain

Am 14.02.2017 um 00:56 schrieb brynn:

...

And the feature request: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1659571

I don't know if jabier might be reading this or not? Maren, do you think it would be bad manners to copy him in to this thread? Or maybe I should just comment in the feature request?

- I'm not sure this would fit into the same category. It's more of an extension to the 'ruler' or 'PaP' LPE, for me. Commenting on a bug report seems a good way of notifying a developer.

...

All best, brynn

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