5:33 a.m.
When I move objects in my drawing, the gradient stays behind. I don't
think it used to do this. Is there a way to make the gradeint move
with the rest of the drawing?
Thanks,
--
Michael Moore
-------------------------------
www.stuporglue.com -- Articles, software and computer tutorials.
www.stuporglue.org -- Donate your used computer to a student that needs it.
7:02 a.m.
On 11/6/05, Michael Moore <stuporglue@...155...> wrote:
When I move objects in my drawing, the gradient stays behind. I
don't
think it used to do this. Is there a way to make the gradeint move
with the rest of the drawing?
It's a toggle button in the Selector controls. You have probably
unpressed it accidentally.
--
bulia byak
Inkscape. Draw Freely.
http://www.inkscape.org
4:22 p.m.
On Sun, 2005-11-06 at 03:02 -0400, bulia byak wrote:
On 11/6/05, Michael Moore <stuporglue@...155...> wrote:
> When I move objects in my drawing, the gradient stays behind. I don't
> think it used to do this. Is there a way to make the gradeint move
> with the rest of the drawing?
It's a toggle button in the Selector controls. You have probably
unpressed it accidentally.
I'm wondering whether we have a usability problem here, since I have
been asked this very same question by a number of other people (though,
sometimes it's stroke scaling or pattern transformation rather than
gradients).
-mental
7:34 p.m.
On 11/6/05, MenTaLguY <mental@...32...> wrote:
I'm wondering whether we have a usability problem here, since I
have
been asked this very same question by a number of other people (though,
sometimes it's stroke scaling or pattern transformation rather than
gradients).
So what do you propose? It's not like these buttons can be pressed
"accidentally", in fact. They don't "get in your way". The only
way
you can toggle them is by actually toggling them, failing to read the
tooltip, and forgetting to toggle back. I'm not sure we can guard
against this. The only thing to do would be to remove them to some
faraway location, but I'd strongly object to that because they are
used quite frequently.
--
bulia byak
Inkscape. Draw Freely.
http://www.inkscape.org
12:57 a.m.
On Nov 6, 2005, at 11:34 AM, bulia byak wrote:
The only thing to do would be to remove them to some
faraway location, but I'd strongly object to that because they are
used quite frequently.
That's not the only thing to do. Perhaps the most straightforward
thing, but not the only thing.
Another solution would be to have Inky, the interactive Inkscape
assistant, pop up and ask the end user if he *really* wanted to turn
that option on/off.
:-)
... I think Vigor is BSD'd, is that a compatible license???
http://vigor.sourceforge.net/screenshots/
Or there are in-between things that can be done. From they little
reminder icons in Eclipse's editor to log-in dialogs that note that
you have the caps lock down, there are all sorts of different solutions.
Getting the right balance for good workflow is they key.
3:50 a.m.
On Sun, 2005-11-06 at 15:34 -0400, bulia byak wrote:
failing to read the tooltip
Evidently a significant proportion of users do not hover over the widget
long enough to see/read the tooltip.
I'm not sure what the solution is, but it's a problem because the
consequences of toggling the control are not otherwise immediately
apparent.
-mental
3:57 a.m.
On 11/6/05, MenTaLguY <mental@...32...> wrote:
Evidently a significant proportion of users do not hover over the
widget
long enough to see/read the tooltip.
I'd guess other programs, that often fail to provide tooltips or they
are undescriptive, are more to blame for this than Inkscape.
--
bulia byak
Inkscape. Draw Freely.
http://www.inkscape.org
4:06 a.m.
On Nov 6, 2005, at 7:50 PM, MenTaLguY wrote:
On Sun, 2005-11-06 at 15:34 -0400, bulia byak wrote:
> failing to read the tooltip
Evidently a significant proportion of users do not hover over the
widget
long enough to see/read the tooltip.
I'm not sure what the solution is, but it's a problem because the
consequences of toggling the control are not otherwise immediately
apparent.
Well, what I've seen in a lot of programs depends on if we can
determine this is a cause for confusion. If we can detect the state
at runtime, popping up a warning dialog with a "don't show me this
again" checkbox is one good solution. For this case, we could detect
things either when the button was toggled, or after a drag with the
situation that may be confusing. It would, of course, be a balance
between how many users would be saved from themselves versus how many
other users would be unnecessarily annoyed by it.
2:48 p.m.
I think that a possible improvement to these toggle buttons which apparently
do nothing, would be to show a message in the bottom bar (what's the name of
it?). This would offer more information to users who don't know the use of
the button (even if they can get the information reading the tooltip, this
would be a small improvement for them) and it wouldn't get in the middle of
users who already know what the button does. Plus, it looks to me like
something easy to implement.
miz.
On 11/7/05, Jon A. Cruz <jon@...204...> wrote:
On Nov 6, 2005, at 7:50 PM, MenTaLguY wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-11-06 at 15:34 -0400, bulia byak wrote:
>> failing to read the tooltip
>
> Evidently a significant proportion of users do not hover over the
> widget
> long enough to see/read the tooltip.
>
> I'm not sure what the solution is, but it's a problem because the
> consequences of toggling the control are not otherwise immediately
> apparent.
Well, what I've seen in a lot of programs depends on if we can
determine this is a cause for confusion. If we can detect the state
at runtime, popping up a warning dialog with a "don't show me this
again" checkbox is one good solution. For this case, we could detect
things either when the button was toggled, or after a drag with the
situation that may be confusing. It would, of course, be a balance
between how many users would be saved from themselves versus how many
other users would be unnecessarily annoyed by it.
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6:40 p.m.
On 11/7/05, Mizrandir the Wizard <mizrandir@...155...> wrote:
I think that a possible improvement to these toggle buttons which
apparently
do nothing, would be to show a message in the bottom bar (what's the name of
it?). This would offer more information to users who don't know the use of
the button (even if they can get the information reading the tooltip, this
would be a small improvement for them) and it wouldn't get in the middle of
users who already know what the button does. Plus, it looks to me like
something easy to implement.
That's a good idea, and indeed easy to implement. I'll do that.
--
bulia byak
Inkscape. Draw Freely.
http://www.inkscape.org
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3:04 p.m.
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005, MenTaLguY wrote:
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 22:50:25 -0500
From: MenTaLguY <mental@...32...>
Reply-To: inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net
To: inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] Move gradient with
On Sun, 2005-11-06 at 15:34 -0400, bulia byak wrote:
> failing to read the tooltip
Evidently a significant proportion of users do not hover over the widget
long enough to see/read the tooltip.
It is best to assume users will pick up Inkscape and go with it and not
necessarily read *anything* (or ever join the lists or provide us feedback
any kind of feedback). I'm always pleasantly surprised if users read the
tooltips or any kind of documentation at all. I only reluctantly read the
manual for my video recorder as a last resort to track down an obscure
feature and I wouldn't expect software users to be any more enthusiastic
about reading techincal documentation than they would for any other tool.
It isn't specific to Inkscape, I've seen plenty of users just hit OK
because they want warnings or error messages to just go away which is why
it is so important for things to always be undoable.
It is important to never blame the user. Software is supposed to make
it easier for them to create art, not be a puzzle game proving how
clever they are at navigating computer interfaces.
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005, Jon A. Cruz wrote:
On Nov 6, 2005, at 7:50 PM, MenTaLguY wrote:
> I'm not sure what the solution is, but it's a problem because the
> consequences of toggling the control are not otherwise immediately
> apparent.
Well, what I've seen in a lot of programs depends on if we can determine
this is a cause for confusion. If we can detect the state at runtime,
popping up a warning dialog with a "don't show me this again" checkbox
is one good solution.
That kind of warning with a checkbox to disable it would be a violation of
the Gnome Human Interface Guidelines. If a dialog is too annoying to
leave on permanently then it is annoying enough you should want to find
some other way to do it if at all possible. It worries me how you
consider this a good solution as opposed to what I consider in very rare
cases to be a necessary evil.
I'm not sure what the solution is, but it's a problem because
the
consequences of toggling the control are not otherwise immediately
apparent.
I'm not sure either (and I dont want to be berated for making a half baked
suggestion) but I hope someone can spare some time to see what other
software does and perhaps find a solution which looks at the bigger
picture rather than tweaking the controls which already exist.
Sincerely
Alan Horkan
Inkscape http://inkscape.org
Abiword http://www.abisource.com
Dia http://gnome.org/projects/dia/
Open Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org
Alan's Diary http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/
6:43 p.m.
On 11/7/05, Alan Horkan <horkana@...3...> wrote:
I'm not sure either (and I dont want to be berated for making a
half baked
suggestion) but I hope someone can spare some time to see what other
software does
No vector editor I know has such a complete set of scale/not-scale
controls. Xara only has such a switch for stroke width, and it's
exactly like we have it: a toggle button (icon+tooltip) on the
Selector controls bar.
--
bulia byak
Inkscape. Draw Freely.
http://www.inkscape.org
1:49 a.m.
> > When I move objects in my drawing, the gradient stays
behind. I don't
> > think it used to do this. Is there a way to make the gradeint move
> > with the rest of the drawing?
>
> It's a toggle button in the Selector controls. You have probably
> unpressed it accidentally.
My 2 year old nephew did get at the keyboard when I wasn't looking.
:-) I kind of figured that there was a setting somewhere, I just can't
find it. Do you mean in Inkscape Preferences-->Tools-->Selector? I
tried toggeling the "Enable gradient editing" option, but that seems
to just mean that the gradient adjuster tool shows up when the object
is selected. The situation persists either way.
I'm wondering whether we have a usability problem here, since I
have
been asked this very same question by a number of other people (though,
sometimes it's stroke scaling or pattern transformation rather than
gradients).
I've always found Inkscape to be very usable. Any settings I've
changed have made sense to me both in location, icon, and description.
For this one, I wasn't the one who changed it initially, so I had to
just treat the symptoms. The symptom in my view was "gradient doesn't
move with drawing", so I figgured it was a gradient issue or a
selection issue. I'm probably just not understanding why the gradient
isn't comming with.
--
Michael Moore
-------------------------------
www.stuporglue.com -- Articles, software and computer tutorials.
www.stuporglue.org -- Donate your used computer to a student that needs it.
1:59 a.m.
On 11/6/05, Michael Moore <stuporglue@...155...> wrote:
> > > When I move objects in my drawing, the gradient stays
behind. I don't
> > > think it used to do this. Is there a way to make the gradeint move
> > > with the rest of the drawing?
> >
> > It's a toggle button in the Selector controls. You have probably
> > unpressed it accidentally.
My 2 year old nephew did get at the keyboard when I wasn't looking.
:-) I kind of figured that there was a setting somewhere, I just can't
find it. Do you mean in Inkscape Preferences-->Tools-->Selector? I
tried toggeling the "Enable gradient editing" option, but that seems
to just mean that the gradient adjuster tool shows up when the object
is selected. The situation persists either way.
No, the setting you need is actually available in two places:
- in the controls bar above the canvas, in Selector tool, the toggle
button with gradient on it
- in Preferences dialog, Transforms tab, "Transform gradients"
--
bulia byak
Inkscape. Draw Freely.
http://www.inkscape.org
3:08 a.m.
- in the controls bar above the canvas, in Selector tool, the toggle
button with gradient on it
- in Preferences dialog, Transforms tab, "Transform gradients"
Aaaah. Maybe I blamed my nephew too early. I was trying to figgure out
what those buttons did. :-)
Thank you!
--
Michael Moore
-------------------------------
www.stuporglue.com -- Articles, software and computer tutorials.
www.stuporglue.org -- Donate your used computer to a student that needs it.
6602
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14 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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Alan Horkan -
bulia byak -
Jon A. Cruz -
MenTaLguY -
Michael Moore -
Mizrandir the Wizard