Thank the heavens...A forum version of the mailing list. Much easier to follow.

microUgly wrote:

I dislike mailing lists also. Which is why I've subscribed using Nabble (www.nabble.com). It allows you to participate on the mailing list via your webbrowser, just like with a forum. I've selected the option to not recieve e-mails from the mailing list, but I will be notified if someone replies to my message.

Web services like Nabble and Google Groups are great but they lack features provided by some desktop tools like Outlook Express : sticking, excluding... But they provide cool features like message rating, Web browsing... You might find other useful Web services in the "Hosted Services" [1] Open Directory category.

Between us, I also dislike mailing lists and can only "bare with them" as long as they're accessible as Usenet groups.

Notes : * [1] http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/E-mail/Mailing_Lists/Hosted_Services/

On Thu, 31 May 2007 17:47:14 -0700, microUgly wrote:

I'd be happy to buy a domain name and host an Inkscape forum. I already pay for a host that's grossly underused for my personal website.

Egads, ANOTHER Inkscape forum? Don't we have enough already?

Creating yet another discussion forum creates yet another community division, another place for people to get answers to their questions, another place for people to have to go to see if anyone can answer their question....It's not good for the community!

These mailing lists are accessible through several web-based interfaces as well as NNTP. Options for everyone - there shouldn't be a NEED to create yet another Inkscape community and increase the fragmentation that's already here!

Sorry if I sound frustrated, but this seems to come up on various lists I subscribe to about every 3 months - someone has the novel idea of creating a "forum" using vBulletin or BBchat or WibbleChatGadget or some other "hot" new discussion area, without considering that they're fragmenting the community rather than uniting it. It gets very tiresome to go "OK, now I have a question about Inkscape, do I go to the Inkscape- Users list, InkscapeWorld, InkscapeForums, InkscapeLovers, InkscapeProfessionalsForum, InkscapeRandomIdeasGroups, InkscapeYadaForum, InkscapeNewUsersForums, InkscapeUsersWithFuzzyCats, InkscapeThisForum, InkscapeThatForum, or InkscapeUniverse to get an answer because the expertise is so dispersed amongst all these places.

(Note that many of the above listed "groups" don't (yet) exist - it's exaggeration to make a point)

Jim

On Thu, 31 May 2007 22:13:28 -0700, microUgly wrote:

How many do we have? I can appreciate your point, but only one person has responded to dniezby e-mail with a link to an actual Inkscape Forum

• which I didn't see until after I posted. And a Google search

(inkscape forum) says there is only one Inkscape forum, in German.

Another subthread mentioned something about a French one. I'm sure the idea came up in this list not long ago.

That aside, whilst you could argue it divides the community, you could also argue the more website the more exposure. And the strongest one would likely win. One forum would prevent division but if it's poorly maintained and implemented, who would want to use it?

More exposure is always a good thing. Maybe what you could do is implement something like vBulletin and use the NNTP plugin to tie into the existing list with news.gmane.org. I know a few sites that do things like this to tie into existing lists.

Note that this is all argumentative. I'm not attempting to start a mailing-list mutiny :) If I was to start a forum it would be to fill a void. You've suggested there are many forums already, I'm only aware of one.

I understand that - I know the idea has come up before, and I know a few people have tried to start their own because they (a) own a server, and (b) don't like mailing lists, so a flat non-threaded "web-based" forum (which I say "ick" every time I hear - it's like holding a conversation on a constantly edited Wiki page - no organisation and very difficult to follow). I've got an IT background and I hate to see the wheel reinvented when it comes to communities because I've seen the effects of community division first-hand when one group splinters off and does their own thing (I even participated in this once about 10 years ago - and in retrospect it was a misguided idea).

A strong community is a cohesive community. That said, rather than have sub-groups splinter off and do their own thing, an integrated solution should be what is sought. That's my point.

(I'm a bit calmer now, this sort of discussion always trips blaring "danger, Will Robinson, Danger!" type alarms. :-) )

Jim

Wow, I can't believe this topic is still going on.

Well, use it or not, my company needs to develop and nurture the artistic communities because of what we do. That's is why I have put up a forum dedicated to Inkscape. In fact, I have forums dedicated to Inkscape, Gimp, Blender, Jashaka and a flash authoring alternative called Koolmoves.

Love it or hate it. It's there if anyone wants to use it. http://www.nsfilms.com/forums

On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 09:22:03 -0500, Dave Niezabitowski <dniezby@...1263...> wrote:

Well, use it or not, my company needs to develop and nurture the artistic communities because of what we do. That's is why I have put up a forum dedicated to Inkscape. In fact, I have forums dedicated to Inkscape, Gimp, Blender, Jashaka and a flash authoring alternative called Koolmoves.

That's cool. I think the contention is mostly just about what we should do for the "official" Inkscape forum...

-mental

On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 16:03:06 +0000 (UTC), Jim Henderson <hendersj@...155...> wrote:

Hackers blow off questions that are inappropriately targeted in order to try to protect their communications channels from being drowned in irrelevance. You don't want this to happen to you.

Although this isn't really directly related to your point, one of the issues with forums is that, while most of the Inkscape developers do read the inkscape-user mailing list, most of us aren't able to keep up with forums.

That's the main reason I'd prefer the "official" Inkscape forum to be an interface to the mailing list over other approaches, even though I certainly do appreciate the benefits of "real" forums (e.g. being able to post inline images as examples, more robust threading, etc.).

-mental

On Jun 1, 2007, at 10:15 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:

The POV-Ray community model is another great example of how this type of thing can (and should) work - they've got a web interface to an NNTP server; they've got binaries groups where inline image posting is permitted (though it's not a hard enforcement in other groups - I'm not sure why people think NNTP can't handle inline images, it certainly can). news.povray.org is usable both with a news reader as well as the web interface - those who might benefit from seeing how someone else has set this up might wander over and have a look.

I'm definitely a strong supporter of this, and second the idea of POV- Ray as a good example.

In fact once you remove the multi-server distribution (as POV-Ray does, since their groups are private), it does boil down to being about the technical equivalent of a mailing list. The limitations people see, I believe, arise from shortcomings in the mail software they use. I happen to get a very nice, threaded view of the inkscape mailing lists, in-line images and all, since I'm using a decent client (Apple's mail app), but for those others a pass through NNTP and a front-end like POV-Ray has could be very useful.

*But* I think the main goal is to not fragment the different discussion groups. If some people participate in a given discussion via mail, and some via NNTP and some via a web front-end, but all are discussing things together then we gain the most. It is in artificially splitting a discussion just to allow for different access methods that we would end up losing.

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 17:09:53 +0100, john cliff wrote:

at the end of the day, of all the art sites I've come across, not one of them uses a mailing list as an interface, I know every time we have this discussion y'all bring up the POVray site, but to my eyes its rather like how I found POVray itself, technically capable of doing the job but not exactly user friendly or pretty. you cant sticky a post full of tutorials on a mail list, you cant go back and edit so that the first post always has the latest version of your wip.

That's what a Wiki is for. One of the things that many of these online "bulletin board" packages do is they do one thing fairly well, and add a bunch of other unrelated features to it. The result, while it works for some, looks to me like trying to use the wrong tool for the job.

For collaborative content creation (which is what a tutorial developed in this way is), a forum isn't the right tool for the job. You want something that can be modified in a flexible manner, and that's what a Wiki is designed to do.

Similarly, I see developers of Mediawiki adding "talk" or "discussion" pages to their Wikis, but wikis are free-form content development tools, and not suited to threaded discussion. There are efforts to put threaded messaging into Mediawiki, but it's simply not the right tool for the job. That's what a forum or newsgroup is used for.

It is possible to *integrate* these different technologies without sacrificing compatibility. This is rarely done, and that it is results in the fragmentation of community that I'm talking about.

I'm a firm believer in using the right tool for the job at hand instead of trying to band-aid something that's not suited for the job into something that can work. That's also precisely why, while it's possible to include images inline in mailing list posts or newsgroup postings, I post my images to a photo album and post a link in the mailing list. For one thing, I can put higher resolution images in a photo album (not that there's a restriction to posting size on many lists or groups) and I won't piss off the group because now they have a 5 MB image to download. With mailing lists (in particular), this results in a terrible waste of space and bandwidth - anyone who's participated on a list and had someone decide to send a 500 MB attachment will know the pain endured through that process.

Jim

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 19:25:58 +0100, john cliff wrote:

Thats all well and good, but if the 'right tool' isnt being looked at then it doesnt matter if its the right tool. You can have as many wikis as you want, but if jo blogs the user doesnt know to look there, all your going to end up with is a bunch of people asking in the mail list/ forum.

That's why a central repository of links to various community resources is needed - a centralized pointer, if you will. This is how I direct my communities to forums/newsgroups, wikis, and other resources (downloads).

And I wouldnt want absolutely anyone editing the post about my wip, dont mind them commenting, but thats a different thing.

Sure, so use a blog for that. That's what this "sticky forum post" is really being used as, so rather than manipulate a piece of software (threaded discussions) to do something it wasn't particularly designed to do (collaborative creation), using the right tool for the job is the right thing to do, IMHO. Point people at it from the centralized resource locater (a sort of "service location" resource, if you will) so they can find it.

That depends on how your collaborating. If you want an everyone mucks in with no overall control approach, you want a wiki. if you simply want feedback on what is essentialy one persons creation, that their remaining in control of, I'd go with a forum still.

Again, I'd consider a blog the right tool for that. I know people who write fiction who use this as a tool, and it's quite successful for that purpose.

I'm confused, thats half the point I was trying to make that you argued against that you've just come back and agreed with. Mailing lists arent suited to multimedia intensive discussions where not everyone wants to see everything. A forum doesnt stop it being inline, but at the same time doesnt overburden everyone with the need to download everything.

And for those who work disconnected (as I do), or who participate in many different areas, let them figure out how to do this in the time they have? Again, I have almost 200 newsgroups I read (this mailing list is one of the ones I read via gmane, a list server to NNTP gateway), and if I had to go to each resource separately or process all this information online (instead of, say, on an airplane, which I have done in the past as I used to travel a lot), I'd never be able to participate in well over half of them.

Mailing lists can work for "multimedia intensive discussions" - just look at the POVRay groups to see an example. The point is, I can avoid downloading large attachments if people link to, say, a Flickr account rather than include the content in the messages. Bandwidth-friendly, able to read the content offline, and include multimedia. It works very effectively for that.

There's nothing to prevent, say, someone creating a web-based forum that pulls the remote images inline for those who like that type of presentation. A good community, IMHO, does not *exclude* people because of their choice of access to the community. It's not always easy to accommodate everyone (and every small minority shouldn't be a primary consideration, also), but given the traffic this list/group sees, I don't see how it benefits the Inkscape community at large to fragment through a *duplication* of existing discussion areas just because someone doesn't like the way it's presented. It's more efficient and better for the community to talk about *integration* rather than spinning off, which is what it seemed some were advocating.

Does that clarify what I'm saying?

Jim

Gimp brushes, as you perhaps well know, are bitmap based and quite limited. You can make dynamically resizable brushes in the brush editor, but they are still limited as to shape.

But what if there were a way to make "brushes" that could be resized, rotated, and otherwise manipulated however you wanted?

Enter Inkscape.

I am a moderator on Gimptalk.com. I have seen a lot of requests lately for vector brushes. Well...vector simply means a more or less simple shape made with paths.

And what is (imho) the best way to do paths? Inkscape! Lots more options and control than Gimp.

So, what you do is you design your brushes in Inkscape.

Once you have the path done in Inkscape, you save it out and import it into Gimp. Make sure that before you do, you put the path in the upper left corner of the Inkscape canvas. When Gimp imports them, that is where they will show up. Put them anywhere else and you may have a hard time finding them, since Gimp can actually import them outside the canvas area.

Once you have the path there, you can use the transform tools to move, scale, rotate, shear, flip, and even use the perspective tool on them. Yes that's right on the PATH by itself, not by turning the path into a selection and filling it with something, then manipulating the resulting image.

So what good is that?

Well, instead of a brushes dialog, just have a Gimp .xcf file open with nothing but paths in it. Just like the layers dialog, you can drag and drop paths in between images and it copies the path into the image. From there, you scale/manipulate it accordingly. This is perhaps more cumbersome than using brushes, but then it is also more flexible as well, since with a conventional Gimp brush, you are limited by however the brush designer designed the brush. With this method, you can make your "brush" fit the canvas and image you are working on.

Now lets take it a step further....what if you want an "oddball" brush, that isn't a vector? I haven't tried this...but it should work. Make a bitmap in Gimp, better if it is high contrast, import it into Inkscape and run Path>Trace Bitmap on it. You may have to clean up some extra control nodes, but once you have a path, you can again, scale it up or down, whatever. Import your creation into Gimp and you are good to go.

Even then...if you want to turn one of these path images into a regular brush, it is pretty easy to do so, just make a grayscale image of it on a white layer, select it and do Script-Fu>Selection>Selection to Brush.

Distribution of these "brushes" would simply be a matter of uploading a zipped .xcf file somewhere. You download the file, extract it, open it, then just drag the path you want to use into the image you are working on.

Anyway...I thought I would just throw this out there.

Here is a resource to illustrate what I am talking about, an .xcf file with four vector paths created using Inkscape and imported into Gimp. You can open this, drag them into whatever image you are working on and then use the transform tools to size and locate them where you want. When you are ready, turn them into selections and bucket fill. or you can make them into regular brushes.

http://www.box.net/shared/24mryjd5dv

____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC

For as long as I can remember the majority of the traffic on the Inkscape-user list has been discussion between users and developers. This discussion was necessarily techinical. In just the past few weeks there has been a noticeable outgrowth of user to user discussion. This is a great sign. Our community is growing in new directions. Fantastic.

Now, I'm pretty anti-forum myself. I've tried a few forum only communities and they just didn't fit. I like mailing lists better because I can aggregate all the traffic into a single place, sort into folders and see where there is new content and how much all with a single click! With forums I have to visit one website per forum and then drop down into the subforums just to see if any discissions I'm interested have new traffic. (Side note, I love that we have such a diverse cross section of the community participating actively in IRC. So cool to pop in the channel and get and give realtime answers and realtime feedback. Love it!) I've seen communities that do all their developer-developer communication in forums and private email, that model really aggravates me. I've also seen non techinical communities that have tried to start all their members in a mailing list. I really think that any time a large group of nontechincal users is required to search for preexisting content in a different place than where they would normally interact with new content, you will find a huge disaster as the same questions get beaten into the ground time and time again.

We've had a number of user requests for a forum for a while now. There are a few users who are happy with the current lists and don't think change is necessary. I think most of the devs have no strong oppinion. As an Inkscape developer, I really like to see users gain more and more techinical skills with inkscape and get sucked into the Inkscape-devel list. But I'm ready to admit that now is the time to let the debate of relative merits of various community discussion tools fade into the background. Let's debate the merits of various forum software packages. :-)

Aaron Spike

On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 09:58:50 +0100, john cliff wrote:

Your missing my point entirely. A blog is the right kind of tool, but has the big downside that people have to find it.

Not if there's a resource page that points to it. That's the point.

And a planet isnt the answer either, because thats then limited to the people who've been added to the aggregation list. A forum gives you one central point, that you can find all the different relevant discussions, has a low barrier for entry, and encourages discussion. You say you know people who use this as a tool, but thats just the point, you have to know their there, or they need to be linked from somewhere (ie someone else has to have found them first)

There are lots of ways to make people aware of such a thing. That's the "power of the internet" (if you will) - it's possible to tie things together and link them.

You can never cater for everyone, its about looking at a target audience and aiming to cater to them as best you can. Theres gonna be edge cases for everything.

Sure, but arguably you're discussing the possible "elimination" of an "edge case" in a mailing list that is composed primarily of people who are IN that use case scenario.

Looking at the POVray groups yesterday they werent actualluy all that multimedia intensive by the standards of a lot of the places i hang out. (admittedly it was a pretty brief skim, so I could have been unlucky with my sampling.)

You'd have to have looked in the binaries groups in particular, because the community's rules state that that's where images get posted rather than to the other groups. The web interface on news.povray.org actually enforces that for people posting from that interface - the buttons for attaching an image don't even appear in the non-binary groups.

The newsgroups also provide pointers to a number of other resources - as does the povray.org website. In this example, the website is the central repository of pointers. Such a list has to be maintained, of course, but if someone volunteers to do that and does keep things up to date, that becomes a very valuable resource.

I said before and I'll say again, I'm not talking about fragmenting the discussion this list sees, because we see very little creative commentry on here. I'm talking about trying to stimulate some new discussion. Jack of all trades, master of none is the phrase that springs to mind. why do lots of things badly, or cater to lots of people needs badly, when you can do a good job for a focused area? I'd guess our user numbers are well into 6 figures judging by the download figures for 0.45.1 yet we have little to no creative community going on here, clearly a list is not working as an interface for that kind of discussion/community building. You say "a good community does not *exclude* people because of their choice of access to the community" I'd say we're probably excluding a lot of people by the interface we provide currently.

And so my point is that we should consider the existing community while we look to grow the community. We do that by using an integrated solution rather than a series of disconnected "island" solutions.

Providing a web-based forum ALONE is not a good idea, IMHO. Providing a web-based forum that interfaces to mailing lists, NNTP servers, etc - that's a good idea. Creating additional specialized forums is a good idea (I've not advocated using inkscape-user for EVERYTHING, and if that's the impression I gave, I apologise, that's absolutely NOT what I'm saying), but doing so away from the existing infrastructure and providing an inconsistent interface creates an issue for those who have chosen to use the lists and/or NNTP interfaces.

Again using povray.org as an example, they use an NNTP server. Many, many people use it (as evidenced by the traffic in the off-topic group - that group is not available in the web interface), but there are many people who use the web interface *exclusively* because the don't want to use NNTP, or don't know how. They have a CHOICE of accessing using a web- based forum or NNTP.

There are a few solutions that solve this issue of providing multiple interfaces - there's vBulletin (which I mentioned before), there's FUDforum (which I've set up - it duplicates the message base rather than providing a native NNTP client, and there are pros and cons to doing that). There's gmane.org (which gates the list server to the NNTP server).

Creating a solution that provides a web interface, NNTP interface, and mail list interface is not impossible by combining a couple of these. You get a mailing list set up, gate it to NNTP with gmane, and provide a web-based frontend with vBulletin for FUDForum that points to the gmane server. Bingo, you've solved the problem for all three classifications of users.

Jim

Jon A. Cruz wrote:

Although you don't happen to find the interface particularly pretty, it is far more than sufficient and has allowed an artistic community to flourish. The functionality of most forums is there, and people didn't need to make it prettier once they hit the sufficient level where artistic discussion and use hit critical mass.

The POV-Ray community is perhaps not a fair comparison. Yes, it's huge, but I suspect it's been around for over ten years, a time when newsgroups was as popular as websites. Most people who use the internet today would not even know what a newsgroup is. And unless they worked in a large organisation they may never have been exposed to a mailing list. But if they've used the internet then you can be pretty sure they've accessed a webpage and after not to long they will have been exposed to forums.

To suggest Inkscape doesn't need a forum is closing the door in the face of many potential users.

Will it dilute the current Inkscape community and pool of knowledge? Maybe - but that sounds a little doomsday-ish to me. In most situations people are finding Inkscape info via Google, so there is little difference if the info is on wiki.inkscape or forum.inkscape provided it can be found.

And with the amount of rubbish usually posted on a forum, there will always be a place for a Wiki that compiles the useful stuff.

You have to ask the question, does the mailing list ensure Inkscape is capturing the biggest audiance? I would suggest by only using a mailing list it's restricting the audiance.

On 6/2/07, Jon A. Cruz <jon@...204...> wrote:

On Jun 2, 2007, at 9:09 AM, john cliff wrote:

at the end of the day, of all the art sites I've come across, not one

of them uses a mailing list as an interface, I know every time we have

this discussion y'all bring up the POVray site, but to my eyes its

rather like how I found POVray itself, technically capable of doing

the job but not exactly user friendly or pretty. But you miss the main point.

Although you don't happen to find the interface particularly pretty, it is far more than sufficient and has allowed an artistic community to flourish. The functionality of most forums is there, and people didn't need to make it prettier once they hit the sufficient level where artistic discussion and use hit critical mass.

I think your missing the point too. Its a pretty safe bet that the cross section of people using POVray is probably quite different than those using inkscape. We have had over a quarter of a million downloads of the 0.45.1 windows exe from sourceforge now, a large percentage of those probably arent all that technical, are used to forums for interacting on this sort of thing, and wouldnt know what a wiki was. (they'd probably say isnt that the encylopedia thingy?)

Consider a website with dancing flash animation all over.

I'm not suggesting we have something with dancing flash animations, I'm suggesting we dont have something thats butt ugly, and has mail headers between every post. its an artistic community, how about some sense of style and design?

Pretty when you first see it, but once you try to navigate and all your browser controls are nonfunctional and your typing and cursor are heavily lagged from 100% CPU load, functional simplicity starts to show a bit more promising. (And, yes, I've hit that problem with forums I've checked out now and then)

You can make the same sort of arguements about mailing lists if you want to play devils advocate. They take forever to download when someone posts big attachments that your not interested in seeing, and you end up waiting for ages and wasting bandwidth.... Theres bad examples of everything out there if you look hard enough.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 09:27:59 +0100, john cliff wrote:

I think your missing the point too. Its a pretty safe bet that the cross section of people using POVray is probably quite different than those using inkscape.

Actually, you'd be surprised then. There are a bunch of people with no technical background at all who use POV-Ray in conjunction with things like Wings3D, Blender, Inkscape, and Moray. You don't have to be a technogeek to be able to use POV-Ray.

are used to forums for interacting on this sort of thing, and wouldnt know what a wiki was. (they'd probably say isnt that the encylopedia thingy?)

And the answer is "yes, that's an example of a Wiki. Ours is similar, but contains information about Inkscape instead".

We shouldn't assume that the average end user is too stupid to figure things out if we give them good pointers to the resources. They are, after all, figuring out how to use Inkscape. ;-)

Jim

On 6/1/07, MenTaLguY <mental@...32...> wrote:

On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 16:03:06 +0000 (UTC), Jim Henderson <hendersj@...155...> wrote:

...

Hackers blow off questions that are inappropriately targeted in order to try to protect their communications channels from being drowned in irrelevance. You don't want this to happen to you.

Although this isn't really directly related to your point, one of the issues with forums is that, while most of the Inkscape developers do read the inkscape-user mailing list, most of us aren't able to keep up with forums.

I think that the mailing lists are doing an excellent job on the techinical side, but they arent generating a users community in terms of art particularly well. I dont think that having all the devs reading all the forum is necessary for a forum once we start talking about it in the context of art rather than technical support. I think if they were done right, and kept pretty focused, then forums could be a good way to grow the creative aspect of the community, and could help tie together and stimulate some of the excellent work that has been going on with the youtube screencast tutorials etc. Very much feel they should be something that compiments the mailing list rather than replaces, as I'd see them performing a dfferent role.

That's the main reason I'd prefer the "official" Inkscape forum to be an interface to the mailing list over other approaches, even though I certainly do appreciate the benefits of "real" forums (e.g. being able to post inline images as examples, more robust threading, etc.).

-mental

microUgly wrote:

I'd be happy to buy a domain name and host an Inkscape forum. I already pay for a host that's grossly underused for my personal website.

You could also hosts it using Web services like QuickTopic, Forumer... why not Nabble ! The problem is that you can't migrate the database if you decide to switch from one host to an other or host it yourself. We encountered the problem with a community I used to maintain to. Other services are listed in the "Hosted Components and Services: Message Boards" [1] Open Directory category if you're interested.

The only thing that stops me is that unless you can attract a large enough community it would go to waste. I'm a member of an Illustrator forum which is a far more popular product and yet it only attracts a handful of regular users which makes it's usefulness limited.

I agree a community with no users is just useless. You have to find solutions to attract them. In my reply to Jim comments I talked about "value added". I think it's what would make the difference. You could survey Inkscape users, in this very group/mailing list, for example. What do we like about it ? How could it be improved ? Someone posted about attachments for example. On deviantArt they have many users because you can post your images, get feedback. On some Usenet groups it's better to use a Web service because you can miss messages if you don't synchronize your client to the server everyday. Some other communities provide users with high-end-AJAX-Web 2.0 cool features like RSS feeds, thread-real-time-no-page-refresh browsing... Seriously you necessarily have to be creative, providing a French forum just made the difference for me, even if to tell the truth... I have not browsed it for months. Because I already don't have much time to browse this group.

I almost forgot, some users might be interested by professional support ! It's one of the best way to drive an open source business these days. Services, it's all about services. Submit a ticket and get help from a pro the next hour.

If someone can suggest a good domain name that might get the ball rolling :)

InkschelpMePlease.net :)

Notes : * [1] http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Web_Design_and_Development/Hosted_Compone...

I've got a dedicated forum for inkscape users on my website that I recently put up. http://www.nsfilms.com/forums/

I'm redesigning the site so for now you have to directly to them with the above link. If you go to forum (without the s) then you will go to my old forum that will be removed as soon as I'm finished with the redesign.

I hope people like it and it's helpful. I could use some moderators if anyone is interested let me know. (That's a hint heathenx) LOL.

Dave N

Jean-Marc Molina wrote:

Dave Niezabitowski wrote:

...

Are there any forums for support or is it only this mailing list. Mailing lists are sooooo hard to follow and messages are all over the place.

Sorry but the only forum I know is French, it's on LinuxGraphic.org.

---

This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user

Try http://inkscapeforum.com/ its only a young forum, but its interaction so far from the past few weeks is promising...

On 6/14/07, chacmool <jav58@...9...> wrote:

I searched and searched for an Inkscape forum but couldnt find one on the net, I find mailing lists confusing as well, I think that someone who knows how to do it should create a forum for this awesome program.

dniezby wrote:

...

Are there any forums for support or is it only this mailing list. Mailing lists are sooooo hard to follow and messages are all over the place.

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