"behind fill" for outlines?
Hello all.
There is a nice feature in Corel Draw, that I'd like to ask if it could be included in Inkscape. Or if already is there, please point me out how to use it. In CD, it is called "behind fill", and it is an option for outlines. You see, the outline "grows" both to the outside and to the inside of the given object. With "behind fill" turned on, we can only see the outside part of the outline, as if it were placed behind the object. One workaround for this is to duplicate the object, apply an outline, and put it behind the other object (without outline). But this involves more trouble, more objects, etc.
hope to hear from you all
cheers
Carlos
I don't quite understand your description. Can you point to an example?
-Rob A>
On Jan 21, 2008 9:32 AM, Carlos Guâno Grohmann wrote:
Hello all.
There is a nice feature in Corel Draw, that I'd like to ask if it could be included in Inkscape. Or if already is there, please point me out how to use it.
Yes, see the attached picture. I guess it explains better than before.
Cheers
c
On Jan 21, 2008 4:42 PM, Rob Antonishen <rob.antonishen@...155...> wrote:
I don't quite understand your description. Can you point to an example?
-Rob A>
On Jan 21, 2008 9:32 AM, Carlos Guâno Grohmann wrote:
Hello all.
There is a nice feature in Corel Draw, that I'd like to ask if it could be included in Inkscape. Or if already is there, please point me out how to use it.
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
I think that Illustrator introduced a much better way to do this than in Corel, but again, SVG is our limitation. The better way is to have the outline configurable as to how much of it is inside or outside of the shape. However, I believe in Illustrator the options are normal/centered, inside, or outside (which seems limiting when it could be via percentage or something).
One example of going from centered to inside (note that it keeps the numeric width unlike Corel). http://veerle.duoh.com/blog/comments/stroke_options_in_illustrator_cs2/
An example showing having all three types applied to one shape: http://images.digitalmedianet.com/2005/Week_15/kqef0gqd/story/il14-stroke2.j...
Another interesting Illustrator thing with strokes is having different strokes on the same shape. What I find to be fascinating is that they even implement it how we would need to (via groups and multiple paths). Plus you can see that different segments of the same path also can have different strokes.
The bottom picture in the article shows how it works internally in their object dialog: http://illustrator.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=35497
Just interesting stuff imho... it seems viable to me once we can edit more than one path at a time with the node tool.
-Josh
Carlos "Guâno" Grohmann wrote:
Yes, see the attached picture. I guess it explains better than before.
Cheers
c
On Jan 21, 2008 4:42 PM, Rob Antonishen <rob.antonishen@...155...> wrote:
I don't quite understand your description. Can you point to an example?
-Rob A>
On Jan 21, 2008 9:32 AM, Carlos Guâno Grohmann wrote:
Hello all.
There is a nice feature in Corel Draw, that I'd like to ask if it could be included in Inkscape. Or if already is there, please point me out how to use it.
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
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Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Hi Joshua and others,
SVG 1.2 full will introduce a feature called vector-effects that allows multi-stroking, intersection/union/join/exclude, and also allows to reverse the path direction. It also allows to first stroke and then fill or vice versa.
Inkscape is an invited expert member of the W3C SVG working group and is thus invited to help working on the vector effects module for SVG 1.2
The working group is currently concentrating in getting SVG 1.2 Tiny out, but after that is finished, we will work on SVG 1.2 full again. Inkscape is invited to already work on a proposal for vector effects module, based on the existing work done so far: http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-SVG12-20041027/vectoreffects.html
So yes, sometimes SVG can be a constraint. But Inkscape, being a working group member, can change the SVG specification. No reason to complain about SVGs limitation. Helping on the SVG specification does not solve the limitation problems immediately, but it can help in the medium time frame (1-3 years).
Andreas
Joshua A. Andler wrote:
I think that Illustrator introduced a much better way to do this than in Corel, but again, SVG is our limitation. The better way is to have the outline configurable as to how much of it is inside or outside of the shape. However, I believe in Illustrator the options are normal/centered, inside, or outside (which seems limiting when it could be via percentage or something).
Hi Andreas,
I'm actually aware of vector effects in 1.2 and I GREATLY look forward to the enhancements we'll be able to get. However, I didn't intend to complain about the spec's limitations (but can see how you could gather than). I was talking about it in terms of finalized versions of the spec. The main thing on our end is that it's dangerous for us to implement features of a non-final version of the spec. From my understanding we got bit by this with implementing flowtext as early as we did.
Another piece of this is that 1.2 has been a long time coming, and probably has a while to go still. I'm not trying to in any way shape or form be critical of the SVG WG either, as I'm also personally a member (in addition to the group). It just is what it is, and when you have a limited amount of people resources (as inkscape has as well), things can only move as fast as the natural resources permit. That's why with my mention of a solution for inkscape's "enhanced" stroke implementation earlier, it ties in to how to implement it as if 1.2 doesn't exist (as it technically doesn't yet). Also, as for my "solution", please know that my putting that info out there also has no bearing on if anyone would even choose to implement it.
So please know that it wasn't a critique of the spec or WG at all, just poor phrasing on my end.
-Josh
Andreas Neumann wrote:
Hi Joshua and others,
SVG 1.2 full will introduce a feature called vector-effects that allows multi-stroking, intersection/union/join/exclude, and also allows to reverse the path direction. It also allows to first stroke and then fill or vice versa.
Inkscape is an invited expert member of the W3C SVG working group and is thus invited to help working on the vector effects module for SVG 1.2
The working group is currently concentrating in getting SVG 1.2 Tiny out, but after that is finished, we will work on SVG 1.2 full again. Inkscape is invited to already work on a proposal for vector effects module, based on the existing work done so far: http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-SVG12-20041027/vectoreffects.html
So yes, sometimes SVG can be a constraint. But Inkscape, being a working group member, can change the SVG specification. No reason to complain about SVGs limitation. Helping on the SVG specification does not solve the limitation problems immediately, but it can help in the medium time frame (1-3 years).
Andreas
Joshua A. Andler wrote:
I think that Illustrator introduced a much better way to do this than in Corel, but again, SVG is our limitation. The better way is to have the outline configurable as to how much of it is inside or outside of the shape. However, I believe in Illustrator the options are normal/centered, inside, or outside (which seems limiting when it could be via percentage or something).
Hi Josh,
It is true that SVG 1.2 full will have some time to go. However, SVG will be more modularized in the future. Learning from the past, the SVG working group will more work on individual modules rather than big monolithic specs that take ages (several years) to process. SVG 1.2 full will be a collection of several required modules. As an example Erik Dahlström from Opera is working on an improved SVG filters module.
These modules don't necessarily have to wait/depend on other modules if they don't depend on the other modules features.
We are looking forward to more feedback from Inkscape. Inkscape is currently the most complete and most important authoring tool for SVG. Thus it is very important to the SVG working group and Inkscapes feedback is appreciated.
We want to make sure that future SVG specifications meet the demands of Inkscape and hopefully vice versa.
Andreas
Josh Andler wrote:
Hi Andreas,
I'm actually aware of vector effects in 1.2 and I GREATLY look forward to the enhancements we'll be able to get. However, I didn't intend to complain about the spec's limitations (but can see how you could gather than). I was talking about it in terms of finalized versions of the spec. The main thing on our end is that it's dangerous for us to implement features of a non-final version of the spec. From my understanding we got bit by this with implementing flowtext as early as we did.
Another piece of this is that 1.2 has been a long time coming, and probably has a while to go still. I'm not trying to in any way shape or form be critical of the SVG WG either, as I'm also personally a member (in addition to the group). It just is what it is, and when you have a limited amount of people resources (as inkscape has as well), things can only move as fast as the natural resources permit. That's why with my mention of a solution for inkscape's "enhanced" stroke implementation earlier, it ties in to how to implement it as if 1.2 doesn't exist (as it technically doesn't yet). Also, as for my "solution", please know that my putting that info out there also has no bearing on if anyone would even choose to implement it.
So please know that it wasn't a critique of the spec or WG at all, just poor phrasing on my end.
-Josh
Andreas Neumann wrote:
Hi Joshua and others,
SVG 1.2 full will introduce a feature called vector-effects that allows multi-stroking, intersection/union/join/exclude, and also allows to reverse the path direction. It also allows to first stroke and then fill or vice versa.
Inkscape is an invited expert member of the W3C SVG working group and is thus invited to help working on the vector effects module for SVG 1.2
The working group is currently concentrating in getting SVG 1.2 Tiny out, but after that is finished, we will work on SVG 1.2 full again. Inkscape is invited to already work on a proposal for vector effects module, based on the existing work done so far: http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-SVG12-20041027/vectoreffects.html
So yes, sometimes SVG can be a constraint. But Inkscape, being a working group member, can change the SVG specification. No reason to complain about SVGs limitation. Helping on the SVG specification does not solve the limitation problems immediately, but it can help in the medium time frame (1-3 years).
Andreas
Joshua A. Andler wrote:
I think that Illustrator introduced a much better way to do this than in Corel, but again, SVG is our limitation. The better way is to have the outline configurable as to how much of it is inside or outside of the shape. However, I believe in Illustrator the options are normal/centered, inside, or outside (which seems limiting when it could be via percentage or something).
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Carlos "Guâno" Grohmann wrote:
There is a nice feature in Corel Draw, that I'd like to ask if it could be included in Inkscape. Or if already is there, please point me out how to use it. In CD, it is called "behind fill", and it is an option for outlines. You see, the outline "grows" both to the outside and to the inside of the given object. With "behind fill" turned on, we can only see the outside part of the outline, as if it were placed behind the object. One workaround for this is to duplicate the object, apply an outline, and put it behind the other object (without outline). But this involves more trouble, more objects, etc.
SVG doesn't have a native way for doing this. I can't find the portion of the specification that talks about it right now, but I think is should be found somewhere at:
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/painting.html
In the future it may be possible to achieve something like your work around with the live path effects that are new in 0.46.
Aaron Spike
SVG doesn't have a native way for doing this. I can't find the portion of the specification that talks about it right now, but I think is should be found somewhere at:
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/painting.html
In the future it may be possible to achieve something like your work around with the live path effects that are new in 0.46.
Another way to do this is using clones (the same technique as the 3D rope example).
1) created the object with unset fill and stroke 2) make a clone and set the stroke as desired. 3) select the original and make a clone and set the fill as desired.
Now you can edit the shape, nodes, etc and the filled and stroked clones will follow. Just remember to alway select the original (Shift-D) to make changes.
Again, not ideal, but it does what you are looking for.
-Rob A>
Rob Antonishen wrote the following on 1/21/2008 2:35 PM:
SVG doesn't have a native way for doing this. I can't find the portion of the specification that talks about it right now, but I think is should be found somewhere at:
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/painting.html
In the future it may be possible to achieve something like your work around with the live path effects that are new in 0.46.
Another way to do this is using clones (the same technique as the 3D rope example).
- created the object with unset fill and stroke
- make a clone and set the stroke as desired.
- select the original and make a clone and set the fill as desired.
Now you can edit the shape, nodes, etc and the filled and stroked clones will follow. Just remember to alway select the original (Shift-D) to make changes.
Again, not ideal, but it does what you are looking for.
-Rob A>
I was thinking more along the lines of a linked offset. For instance, draw the green square first, linked offset, node tool, drag node inward. Place green square to the lower most z-order. Change linked copy to yellow. Change the size of the green square and the yellow square automatically changes. Does that work?
heathenx
participants (7)
-
Aaron Spike -
Andreas Neumann -
Carlos \"Guâno\" Grohmann -
heathenx -
Josh Andler -
Joshua A. Andler -
Rob Antonishen