Re: [Inkscape-user] translate Attribute stored in SVG Graphic
Op Do, 3 april, 2008 08:46, schreef Rottgardt, Jens (K-SIB-2/3):
Hi Jens,
That would indeed be possible, but we haven't implemented it like that (yet) for circles. Storing a separate transformation, like we do now, is needed for example when stretching or skewing the circle. How does your application store such a transformation?
Storing a separate transformation, like Inkscape does, allows for any affine transformation (see wikipedia) to be applied to an object. Modifying the center position and radius, like your application does, only allows for translations and symmetrical scaling. That's why we prefer the former, although we could also have both methods (if only someone would take the time to write the code for that).
Just out of curiosity: what application are you using?
Diederik
Hi,
I don't know if I understood your answer to my 2nd question right. But when moving an object in Inkscape this move is nothing I want to store into the objects properties at least I want to place the circle to a special position. The problem is if I use the SVG graphic in my application I want to move the circle from left to right from the position where I have placed the circle in Inkscape. But what happens is that the circle first is moved to the very first position where I have placed the circle in Inkscape and then moved from that position.
In Inkscape
place the circle to position 50,50
move the circle to position 100, 100 (this move is stored in the
transform translate (why???) )
- save
In my application
The circle is placed to position 100,100
my appliction is moving the circle from left to right and the following
steps happens a) the circle is placed back to position 50,50 b) the circle is moved from left to right
To avoid this I have manually to remove the transform translate attribute in Inkscape and set the cx, cy attributes to the position I want to place the circle.
To keep it short and simple. I want to have the same behaivor for placing a circle like for rectangles !
Jens Rottgardt Buildmanagement ITP Fahrzeugherstellung, K-SIB 2
Postadresse: Volkswagen AG Brieffach 1839 38436 Wolfsburg
Besucheradresse: Volkswagen AG Hermann-Münch-Straße 1 (MobileLife Campus) 38442 Wolfsburg
Telefon +49 -5361-896-3276
Telefax +49 (0) 5361-896-3296 mailto:jens.rottgardt@...2472... http://www.volkswagen.de
VOLKSWAGEN AG Sitz/Domicile: Wolfsburg Registergericht/Court of Registry: Amtsgericht Braunschweig HRB Nr./. Commercial Register No.: 100484 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Ferdinand Piëch Vorstand/Board of Management: Martin Winterkorn (Vorsitzender/Chairman), Francisco J. Garcia Sanz, Jochem Heizmann, Horst Neumann, Hans Dieter Pötsch
Wichtiger Hinweis: Die vorgenannten Angaben werden jeder E-Mail automatisch hinzugefügt und lassen keine Rückschlüsse auf den Rechtscharakter der E-Mail zu. Important Notice: The above information is automatically added to this e-mail. This addition does not constitute a representation that the content of this e-mail is legally relevant and/or is intended to be legally binding upon VOLKSWAGEN AG.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] Im Auftrag von bulia byak Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. April 2008 20:33 An: Inkscape User Community Betreff: Re: [Inkscape-user] translate Attribute stored in SVG Graphic
On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Rottgardt, Jens (K-SIB-2/3) <jens.rottgardt@...2472...> wrote:
- Why does Inkscape uses the path tag for circles instead of the
existing circle tag?
Because otherwise you wouldn't be able to put markers on it, or use text on path with it, or use live path effects.
- When painting a circle in Inkscape and moving it the move is stored
in the transform translate tag. Can anyone tell me why ?
Because you cannot, in general, embed an arbitrary transform into the circle's parameters (center and radii). Actually a move only could be embedded into cx/cy, but since other transforms cannot, we didn't special-case translation (although this is possible, and is done e.g. for rectangles - so if you desperately need that, you can submit a patch).
-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org
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the answers I'm seeing to this question don't seem to match the question.
as I see it another way to word the question is
why is there a difference between a circle that's placed at 100,100 and one that's placed at 50,50 and then moved to 100,100
the end result looks identical, but the SVG code shows the two steps (and in some cases the two steps are visable to the user)
there's no question that there are transforms that can't be directly represented in the circle, but that's not what's being asked.
David Lang
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008, Diederik van Lierop wrote:
Op Do, 3 april, 2008 08:46, schreef Rottgardt, Jens (K-SIB-2/3):
Hi Jens,
That would indeed be possible, but we haven't implemented it like that (yet) for circles. Storing a separate transformation, like we do now, is needed for example when stretching or skewing the circle. How does your application store such a transformation?
Storing a separate transformation, like Inkscape does, allows for any affine transformation (see wikipedia) to be applied to an object. Modifying the center position and radius, like your application does, only allows for translations and symmetrical scaling. That's why we prefer the former, although we could also have both methods (if only someone would take the time to write the code for that).
Just out of curiosity: what application are you using?
Diederik
Hi,
I don't know if I understood your answer to my 2nd question right. But when moving an object in Inkscape this move is nothing I want to store into the objects properties at least I want to place the circle to a special position. The problem is if I use the SVG graphic in my application I want to move the circle from left to right from the position where I have placed the circle in Inkscape. But what happens is that the circle first is moved to the very first position where I have placed the circle in Inkscape and then moved from that position.
In Inkscape
place the circle to position 50,50
move the circle to position 100, 100 (this move is stored in the
transform translate (why???) )
- save
In my application
The circle is placed to position 100,100
my appliction is moving the circle from left to right and the following
steps happens a) the circle is placed back to position 50,50 b) the circle is moved from left to right
To avoid this I have manually to remove the transform translate attribute in Inkscape and set the cx, cy attributes to the position I want to place the circle.
To keep it short and simple. I want to have the same behaivor for placing a circle like for rectangles !
Jens Rottgardt Buildmanagement ITP Fahrzeugherstellung, K-SIB 2
Postadresse: Volkswagen AG Brieffach 1839 38436 Wolfsburg
Besucheradresse: Volkswagen AG Hermann-Münch-Straße 1 (MobileLife Campus) 38442 Wolfsburg
Telefon +49 -5361-896-3276
Telefax +49 (0) 5361-896-3296 mailto:jens.rottgardt@...2472... http://www.volkswagen.de
VOLKSWAGEN AG Sitz/Domicile: Wolfsburg Registergericht/Court of Registry: Amtsgericht Braunschweig HRB Nr./. Commercial Register No.: 100484 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Ferdinand Piëch Vorstand/Board of Management: Martin Winterkorn (Vorsitzender/Chairman), Francisco J. Garcia Sanz, Jochem Heizmann, Horst Neumann, Hans Dieter Pötsch
Wichtiger Hinweis: Die vorgenannten Angaben werden jeder E-Mail automatisch hinzugefügt und lassen keine Rückschlüsse auf den Rechtscharakter der E-Mail zu. Important Notice: The above information is automatically added to this e-mail. This addition does not constitute a representation that the content of this e-mail is legally relevant and/or is intended to be legally binding upon VOLKSWAGEN AG.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] Im Auftrag von bulia byak Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. April 2008 20:33 An: Inkscape User Community Betreff: Re: [Inkscape-user] translate Attribute stored in SVG Graphic
On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Rottgardt, Jens (K-SIB-2/3) <jens.rottgardt@...2472...> wrote:
- Why does Inkscape uses the path tag for circles instead of the
existing circle tag?
Because otherwise you wouldn't be able to put markers on it, or use text on path with it, or use live path effects.
- When painting a circle in Inkscape and moving it the move is stored
in the transform translate tag. Can anyone tell me why ?
Because you cannot, in general, embed an arbitrary transform into the circle's parameters (center and radii). Actually a move only could be embedded into cx/cy, but since other transforms cannot, we didn't special-case translation (although this is possible, and is done e.g. for rectangles - so if you desperately need that, you can submit a patch).
-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org
Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
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On Thu, Apr 03, 2008 at 10:38:24AM -0700, david@...2429... wrote:
the answers I'm seeing to this question don't seem to match the question.
Bulia's original answer was correct and pertinent. Because not all transforms can be folded into the circle's parameters, transforms are handled in general by editing the setting the transform rather than by changing the circle's parameters. It would be extra effort to handle some transforms differently, and nobody has ever found a need for doing so.
I have seen systems that represented all circles/spheres as a unit circle/sphere about the origin with the appropriate transform, and others that folded transforms into parameters as much as possible, and ditto for rectangles/cuboids. The first method is advantageous if it is important to you that equal things have the same representation; the second is advantageous if having the transform on an object be the identity gets you extra space or time efficiency. Otherwise, there is not much to choose between them.
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008, Daniel Hulme wrote:
On Thu, Apr 03, 2008 at 10:38:24AM -0700, david@...2429... wrote:
the answers I'm seeing to this question don't seem to match the question.
Bulia's original answer was correct and pertinent. Because not all transforms can be folded into the circle's parameters, transforms are handled in general by editing the setting the transform rather than by changing the circle's parameters. It would be extra effort to handle some transforms differently, and nobody has ever found a need for doing so.
but there is a difference between doing a transform to change the shape and simply moving the object.
otherwise you shouldn't have x,y in the object definition at all, create all objects at 0,0 and use transform to move them to where they belong.
I have seen systems that represented all circles/spheres as a unit circle/sphere about the origin with the appropriate transform, and others that folded transforms into parameters as much as possible, and ditto for rectangles/cuboids. The first method is advantageous if it is important to you that equal things have the same representation; the second is advantageous if having the transform on an object be the identity gets you extra space or time efficiency. Otherwise, there is not much to choose between them.
but what's happening here sounds like it's neither. you give the object a position and size AND you use a transform to move it elsewhere.
I agree that either one can be the right thing to do at different times, but the combination of them seems wrong.
David Lang
On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 3:44 PM, <david@...2429...> wrote:
but what's happening here sounds like it's neither. you give the object a position and size AND you use a transform to move it elsewhere.
I agree that either one can be the right thing to do at different times, but the combination of them seems wrong.
It's not "wrong". It is valid SVG. It's just inconsistent.
Simply put, up to now it was not a problem for anyone, so we didn't bother fixing it. If it's a problem for you, look up how it's done for rects and submit a patch for ellipses. Otherwise, I _may_ get round to fixing it myself but I cannot promise any specific time frame.
On Fri, 4 Apr 2008, bulia byak wrote:
On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 3:44 PM, <david@...2429...> wrote:
but what's happening here sounds like it's neither. you give the object a position and size AND you use a transform to move it elsewhere.
I agree that either one can be the right thing to do at different times, but the combination of them seems wrong.
It's not "wrong". It is valid SVG. It's just inconsistent.
Simply put, up to now it was not a problem for anyone, so we didn't bother fixing it. If it's a problem for you, look up how it's done for rects and submit a patch for ellipses. Otherwise, I _may_ get round to fixing it myself but I cannot promise any specific time frame.
sorry, I didn't mean 'wrong' in terms of not meeting the spec, I meant 'wrong' in terms of not the best way (and not a consistant way) to do it
as long as this is acknowledged as an issue to be fixed in the future I don't have a specific time that I need it. I just spoke up becouse it sounded like the issue wasn't being understood by everyone.
David Lang
Hi folks,
many emails where send to this topic and to be honest I have not all of them understood. I just want to have the same behaviour for ellipses/circles like for rectangles in the point that a move in inkscape is NOT stored in the objects properties. Maybe it is possible to toggle on/off this behavior by special configuration and storing the move would be the default setting ? What do you think ?
__________________ Jens Rottgardt Buildmanagement ITP Fahrzeugherstellung, K-SIB 2
Postadresse: Volkswagen AG Brieffach 1839 38436 Wolfsburg
Besucheradresse: Volkswagen AG Hermann-Münch-Straße 1 (MobileLife Campus) 38442 Wolfsburg
Telefon +49 -5361-896-3276
Telefax +49 (0) 5361-896-3296 mailto:jens.rottgardt@...2472... http://www.volkswagen.de
VOLKSWAGEN AG Sitz/Domicile: Wolfsburg Registergericht/Court of Registry: Amtsgericht Braunschweig HRB Nr./. Commercial Register No.: 100484 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Ferdinand Piëch Vorstand/Board of Management: Martin Winterkorn (Vorsitzender/Chairman), Francisco J. Garcia Sanz, Jochem Heizmann, Horst Neumann, Hans Dieter Pötsch
Wichtiger Hinweis: Die vorgenannten Angaben werden jeder E-Mail automatisch hinzugefügt und lassen keine Rückschlüsse auf den Rechtscharakter der E-Mail zu. Important Notice: The above information is automatically added to this e-mail. This addition does not constitute a representation that the content of this e-mail is legally relevant and/or is intended to be legally binding upon VOLKSWAGEN AG.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] Im Auftrag von david@...2429... Gesendet: Freitag, 4. April 2008 21:37 An: Inkscape User Community Betreff: Re: [Inkscape-user] translate Attribute stored in SVG Graphic
On Fri, 4 Apr 2008, bulia byak wrote:
On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 3:44 PM, <david@...2429...> wrote:
but what's happening here sounds like it's neither. you give the object a position and size AND you use a transform to move it elsewhere.
I agree that either one can be the right thing to do at different times, but the combination of them seems wrong.
It's not "wrong". It is valid SVG. It's just inconsistent.
Simply put, up to now it was not a problem for anyone, so we didn't bother fixing it. If it's a problem for you, look up how it's done for rects and submit a patch for ellipses. Otherwise, I _may_ get round to fixing it myself but I cannot promise any specific time frame.
sorry, I didn't mean 'wrong' in terms of not meeting the spec, I meant 'wrong' in terms of not the best way (and not a consistant way) to do it
as long as this is acknowledged as an issue to be fixed in the future I don't have a specific time that I need it. I just spoke up becouse it sounded like the issue wasn't being understood by everyone.
David Lang
------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Hi,
can anyone tell me if my issue will be realized ?
__________________ Jens Rottgardt Buildmanagement ITP Fahrzeugherstellung, K-SIB 2
Postadresse: Volkswagen AG Brieffach 1839 38436 Wolfsburg
Besucheradresse: Volkswagen AG Hermann-Münch-Straße 1 (MobileLife Campus) 38442 Wolfsburg
Telefon +49 -5361-896-3276
Telefax +49 (0) 5361-896-3296 mailto:jens.rottgardt@...2472... http://www.volkswagen.de
VOLKSWAGEN AG Sitz/Domicile: Wolfsburg Registergericht/Court of Registry: Amtsgericht Braunschweig HRB Nr./. Commercial Register No.: 100484 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Ferdinand Piëch Vorstand/Board of Management: Martin Winterkorn (Vorsitzender/Chairman), Francisco J. Garcia Sanz, Jochem Heizmann, Horst Neumann, Hans Dieter Pötsch
Wichtiger Hinweis: Die vorgenannten Angaben werden jeder E-Mail automatisch hinzugefügt und lassen keine Rückschlüsse auf den Rechtscharakter der E-Mail zu. Important Notice: The above information is automatically added to this e-mail. This addition does not constitute a representation that the content of this e-mail is legally relevant and/or is intended to be legally binding upon VOLKSWAGEN AG.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] Im Auftrag von Rottgardt, Jens (K-SIB-2/3) Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. April 2008 09:03 An: Inkscape User Community Betreff: Re: [Inkscape-user] translate Attribute stored in SVG Graphic
Hi folks,
many emails where send to this topic and to be honest I have not all of them understood. I just want to have the same behaviour for ellipses/circles like for rectangles in the point that a move in inkscape is NOT stored in the objects properties. Maybe it is possible to toggle on/off this behavior by special configuration and storing the move would be the default setting ? What do you think ?
__________________ Jens Rottgardt Buildmanagement ITP Fahrzeugherstellung, K-SIB 2
Postadresse: Volkswagen AG Brieffach 1839 38436 Wolfsburg
Besucheradresse: Volkswagen AG Hermann-Münch-Straße 1 (MobileLife Campus) 38442 Wolfsburg
Telefon +49 -5361-896-3276
Telefax +49 (0) 5361-896-3296 mailto:jens.rottgardt@...2472... http://www.volkswagen.de
VOLKSWAGEN AG Sitz/Domicile: Wolfsburg Registergericht/Court of Registry: Amtsgericht Braunschweig HRB Nr./. Commercial Register No.: 100484 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Ferdinand Piëch Vorstand/Board of Management: Martin Winterkorn (Vorsitzender/Chairman), Francisco J. Garcia Sanz, Jochem Heizmann, Horst Neumann, Hans Dieter Pötsch
Wichtiger Hinweis: Die vorgenannten Angaben werden jeder E-Mail automatisch hinzugefügt und lassen keine Rückschlüsse auf den Rechtscharakter der E-Mail zu. Important Notice: The above information is automatically added to this e-mail. This addition does not constitute a representation that the content of this e-mail is legally relevant and/or is intended to be legally binding upon VOLKSWAGEN AG.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] Im Auftrag von david@...2429... Gesendet: Freitag, 4. April 2008 21:37 An: Inkscape User Community Betreff: Re: [Inkscape-user] translate Attribute stored in SVG Graphic
On Fri, 4 Apr 2008, bulia byak wrote:
On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 3:44 PM, <david@...2429...> wrote:
but what's happening here sounds like it's neither. you give the object a position and size AND you use a transform to move it elsewhere.
I agree that either one can be the right thing to do at different times, but the combination of them seems wrong.
It's not "wrong". It is valid SVG. It's just inconsistent.
Simply put, up to now it was not a problem for anyone, so we didn't bother fixing it. If it's a problem for you, look up how it's done for rects and submit a patch for ellipses. Otherwise, I _may_ get round to fixing it myself but I cannot promise any specific time frame.
sorry, I didn't mean 'wrong' in terms of not meeting the spec, I meant 'wrong' in terms of not the best way (and not a consistant way) to do it
as long as this is acknowledged as an issue to be fixed in the future I don't have a specific time that I need it. I just spoke up becouse it sounded like the issue wasn't being understood by everyone.
David Lang
------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
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OSX 10.5.2 Inkscape 0.46 Intel Mac
In trying to insert greek letters into a graphic I found that there appears to be a common problem with the mapping of each of the three WP Greek fonts.
For example, the alphabet in WP Greek Century types as follows (lower then upper case):
In NeoOffice, it looks like this:
ΑΒΨΔΕΦΓΗΙΞΚΛΜΝΟΠ;ΡΣΤΘΩΣΧΥΖ αβψδεφγηιξκλμνοπ;ρστθωςχυζ
Note that it is necessary to switch from US to Greek keyboard to get the Greek characters when using NeoOffice regardless of the fact that WP Greek Century is the selected font.
This switch is not possible for Inkscape since it is running in X11.
Any thoughts much appreciated! Until then 'alpha' and 'beta' will have to suffice ~
Stu
On Fri, Apr 04, 2008 at 04:06:42PM -0400, Stuart Edwards wrote:
OSX 10.5.2 Inkscape 0.46 Intel Mac
In trying to insert greek letters into a graphic I found that there appears to be a common problem with the mapping of each of the three WP Greek fonts.
It is (if I understand you correctly) the mapping working as intended. In a font with Greek glyphs, the Greek glyphs are in addition to, not instead of, the usual Latin characters. When you switch your keyboard setting to Greek, MacOS interprets your keypresses as Greek letters and inserts the appropriate character numbers for Greek letters, which the Greek font then displays with Greek glyphs. It would do the same even for a font without Greek glyphs, and the letters would be the same in the file, they just wouldn't show up correctly when displaying the file.
But X has its own keyboard setting, and its own way(s) of allowing you to enter characters your keyboard doesn't have. I'm not a Mac user, so I'm afraid I don't know how to set this up on a Mac, but Googling for {X input method Mac} should get you started. (Or maybe one of the Mac users on the list will be able to help you out.)
For example, the alphabet in WP Greek Century types as follows (lower then upper case):
I'm not sure what you were trying to achieve, but your mail just had two blank lines.
In NeoOffice, it looks like this:
ΑΒΨΔΕΦΓΗΙΞΚΛΜΝΟΠ;ΡΣΤΘΩΣΧΥΖ αβψδεφγηιξκλμνοπ;ρστθωςχυζ
Note that it is necessary to switch from US to Greek keyboard to get the Greek characters when using NeoOffice regardless of the fact that WP Greek Century is the selected font.
Indeed. The choice of font is irrelevant to how keystrokes are interpreted; it just affects what the characters look like.
This switch is not possible for Inkscape since it is running in X11.
Well, unless it is something specific to X on Mac, it is possible, but with Input Methods it is unnecessary.
For now, you could install gucharmap, which is a bit like the Windows Character Map programme, but far superior. Good luck getting this sorted out.
thanks for your time responding - sorry about the blank lines - difficulty of copying from an X11 window - it looked ok in Mail
The output from Inkscape (first line is typing the alphabet in caps, second in lower case) is :
If there is nothing on the above two lines, this email should have an attachment 'allgreek2me.png' with the intended output.
So A = cap pi, B = lc pi, C=cap roe, D=lc roe E=cap sigma, F=lc sigma etc. Interestingly, no alpha, beta, gamma ......
I appreciate your point regarding X11 keyboard setting v/s Mac, but it would be nice to have the Greek print as it should since it is 'available' as a menu option.
I'll do some more research and maybe I can figure out a fix ~
Stu
On Apr 4, 2008, at 7:14 PM, Daniel Hulme wrote:
On Fri, Apr 04, 2008 at 04:06:42PM -0400, Stuart Edwards wrote:
OSX 10.5.2 Inkscape 0.46 Intel Mac
In trying to insert greek letters into a graphic I found that there appears to be a common problem with the mapping of each of the three WP Greek fonts.
It is (if I understand you correctly) the mapping working as intended. In a font with Greek glyphs, the Greek glyphs are in addition to, not instead of, the usual Latin characters. When you switch your keyboard setting to Greek, MacOS interprets your keypresses as Greek letters and inserts the appropriate character numbers for Greek letters, which the Greek font then displays with Greek glyphs. It would do the same even for a font without Greek glyphs, and the letters would be the same in the file, they just wouldn't show up correctly when displaying the file.
But X has its own keyboard setting, and its own way(s) of allowing you to enter characters your keyboard doesn't have. I'm not a Mac user, so I'm afraid I don't know how to set this up on a Mac, but Googling for {X input method Mac} should get you started. (Or maybe one of the Mac users on the list will be able to help you out.)
For example, the alphabet in WP Greek Century types as follows (lower then upper case):
I'm not sure what you were trying to achieve, but your mail just had two blank lines.
In NeoOffice, it looks like this:
ΑΒΨΔΕΦΓΗΙΞΚΛΜΝΟΠ;ΡΣΤΘΩΣΧΥΖ αβψδεφγηιξκλμνοπ;ρστθωςχυζ
Note that it is necessary to switch from US to Greek keyboard to get the Greek characters when using NeoOffice regardless of the fact that WP Greek Century is the selected font.
Indeed. The choice of font is irrelevant to how keystrokes are interpreted; it just affects what the characters look like.
This switch is not possible for Inkscape since it is running in X11.
Well, unless it is something specific to X on Mac, it is possible, but with Input Methods it is unnecessary.
For now, you could install gucharmap, which is a bit like the Windows Character Map programme, but far superior. Good luck getting this sorted out.
-- "The rules of programming are transitory; only Tao is eternal. Therefore you must contemplate Tao before you receive enlightenment." "How will I know when I have received enlightenment?" asked the novice. "Your program will then run correctly," replied the master.
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Hi, I can't be certain, but it sounds as if you're using a font file which only supports a legacy method of character input.
Maybe you should try with a more modern font... this link should get you started:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Language/2007...
Cheers, KJ
On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Stuart Edwards <sedwards2@...2431...> wrote:
thanks for your time responding - sorry about the blank lines - difficulty of copying from an X11 window - it looked ok in Mail
The output from Inkscape (first line is typing the alphabet in caps, second in lower case) is :
If there is nothing on the above two lines, this email should have an attachment 'allgreek2me.png' with the intended output.
So A = cap pi, B = lc pi, C=cap roe, D=lc roe E=cap sigma, F=lc sigma etc. Interestingly, no alpha, beta, gamma ......
I appreciate your point regarding X11 keyboard setting v/s Mac, but it would be nice to have the Greek print as it should since it is 'available' as a menu option.
I'll do some more research and maybe I can figure out a fix ~
Stu
On Apr 4, 2008, at 7:14 PM, Daniel Hulme wrote:
On Fri, Apr 04, 2008 at 04:06:42PM -0400, Stuart Edwards wrote:
OSX 10.5.2 Inkscape 0.46 Intel Mac
In trying to insert greek letters into a graphic I found that there appears to be a common problem with the mapping of each of the three WP Greek fonts.
It is (if I understand you correctly) the mapping working as intended. In a font with Greek glyphs, the Greek glyphs are in addition to, not instead of, the usual Latin characters. When you switch your keyboard setting to Greek, MacOS interprets your keypresses as Greek letters and inserts the appropriate character numbers for Greek letters, which the Greek font then displays with Greek glyphs. It would do the same even for a font without Greek glyphs, and the letters would be the same in the file, they just wouldn't show up correctly when displaying the file.
But X has its own keyboard setting, and its own way(s) of allowing you to enter characters your keyboard doesn't have. I'm not a Mac user, so I'm afraid I don't know how to set this up on a Mac, but Googling for {X input method Mac} should get you started. (Or maybe one of the Mac users on the list will be able to help you out.)
For example, the alphabet in WP Greek Century types as follows (lower then upper case):
I'm not sure what you were trying to achieve, but your mail just had two blank lines.
In NeoOffice, it looks like this:
ΑΒΨΔΕΦΓΗΙΞΚΛΜΝΟΠ;ΡΣΤΘΩΣΧΥΖ αβψδεφγηιξκλμνοπ;ρστθωςχυζ
Note that it is necessary to switch from US to Greek keyboard to get the Greek characters when using NeoOffice regardless of the fact that WP Greek Century is the selected font.
Indeed. The choice of font is irrelevant to how keystrokes are interpreted; it just affects what the characters look like.
This switch is not possible for Inkscape since it is running in X11.
Well, unless it is something specific to X on Mac, it is possible, but with Input Methods it is unnecessary.
For now, you could install gucharmap, which is a bit like the Windows Character Map programme, but far superior. Good luck getting this sorted out.
-- "The rules of programming are transitory; only Tao is eternal. Therefore you must contemplate Tao before you receive enlightenment." "How will I know when I have received enlightenment?" asked the novice. "Your program will then run correctly," replied the master.
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Hi Bulia,
I would appreciate if you will provide the patch. I understand that you cannot specify a time frame but a rough guess would be great. Maybe next month or next year ;-)
Thanks a lot !
__________________ Jens Rottgardt Buildmanagement ITP Fahrzeugherstellung, K-SIB 2
Postadresse: Volkswagen AG Brieffach 1839 38436 Wolfsburg
Besucheradresse: Volkswagen AG Hermann-Münch-Straße 1 (MobileLife Campus) 38442 Wolfsburg
Telefon +49 -5361-896-3276
Telefax +49 (0) 5361-896-3296 mailto:jens.rottgardt@...2472... http://www.volkswagen.de
VOLKSWAGEN AG Sitz/Domicile: Wolfsburg Registergericht/Court of Registry: Amtsgericht Braunschweig HRB Nr./. Commercial Register No.: 100484 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Ferdinand Piëch Vorstand/Board of Management: Martin Winterkorn (Vorsitzender/Chairman), Francisco J. Garcia Sanz, Jochem Heizmann, Horst Neumann, Hans Dieter Pötsch
Wichtiger Hinweis: Die vorgenannten Angaben werden jeder E-Mail automatisch hinzugefügt und lassen keine Rückschlüsse auf den Rechtscharakter der E-Mail zu. Important Notice: The above information is automatically added to this e-mail. This addition does not constitute a representation that the content of this e-mail is legally relevant and/or is intended to be legally binding upon VOLKSWAGEN AG.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] Im Auftrag von bulia byak Gesendet: Freitag, 4. April 2008 21:20 An: Inkscape User Community Betreff: Re: [Inkscape-user] translate Attribute stored in SVG Graphic
On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 3:44 PM, <david@...2429...> wrote:
but what's happening here sounds like it's neither. you give the object a position and size AND you use a transform to move it elsewhere.
I agree that either one can be the right thing to do at different times, but the combination of them seems wrong.
It's not "wrong". It is valid SVG. It's just inconsistent.
Simply put, up to now it was not a problem for anyone, so we didn't bother fixing it. If it's a problem for you, look up how it's done for rects and submit a patch for ellipses. Otherwise, I _may_ get round to fixing it myself but I cannot promise any specific time frame.
Hi Bulia,
I would appreciate if you will provide the patch. I understand that you cannot specify a time frame but a rough guess would be great. Maybe next month or next year ;-)
Thanks a lot !
__________________ Jens Rottgardt Buildmanagement ITP Fahrzeugherstellung, K-SIB 2
Postadresse: Volkswagen AG Brieffach 1839 38436 Wolfsburg
Besucheradresse: Volkswagen AG Hermann-Münch-Straße 1 (MobileLife Campus) 38442 Wolfsburg
Telefon +49 -5361-896-3276
Telefax +49 (0) 5361-896-3296 mailto:jens.rottgardt@...2472... http://www.volkswagen.de
VOLKSWAGEN AG Sitz/Domicile: Wolfsburg Registergericht/Court of Registry: Amtsgericht Braunschweig HRB Nr./. Commercial Register No.: 100484 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Ferdinand Piëch Vorstand/Board of Management: Martin Winterkorn (Vorsitzender/Chairman), Francisco J. Garcia Sanz, Jochem Heizmann, Horst Neumann, Hans Dieter Pötsch
Wichtiger Hinweis: Die vorgenannten Angaben werden jeder E-Mail automatisch hinzugefügt und lassen keine Rückschlüsse auf den Rechtscharakter der E-Mail zu. Important Notice: The above information is automatically added to this e-mail. This addition does not constitute a representation that the content of this e-mail is legally relevant and/or is intended to be legally binding upon VOLKSWAGEN AG.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] Im Auftrag von bulia byak Gesendet: Freitag, 4. April 2008 21:20 An: Inkscape User Community Betreff: Re: [Inkscape-user] translate Attribute stored in SVG Graphic
On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 3:44 PM, <david@...2429...> wrote:
but what's happening here sounds like it's neither. you give the object a position and size AND you use a transform to move it elsewhere.
I agree that either one can be the right thing to do at different times, but the combination of them seems wrong.
It's not "wrong". It is valid SVG. It's just inconsistent.
Simply put, up to now it was not a problem for anyone, so we didn't bother fixing it. If it's a problem for you, look up how it's done for rects and submit a patch for ellipses. Otherwise, I _may_ get round to fixing it myself but I cannot promise any specific time frame.
Hi Bulia,
regarding my "problem" I have asked for a patch. Can anyone provide it ?
__________________ Jens Rottgardt Buildmanagement ITP Fahrzeugherstellung, K-SIB 2
Postadresse: Volkswagen AG Brieffach 1839 38436 Wolfsburg
Besucheradresse: Volkswagen AG Hermann-Münch-Straße 1 (MobileLife Campus) 38442 Wolfsburg
Telefon +49 -5361-896-3276
Telefax +49 (0) 5361-896-3296 mailto:jens.rottgardt@...2472... http://www.volkswagen.de
VOLKSWAGEN AG Sitz/Domicile: Wolfsburg Registergericht/Court of Registry: Amtsgericht Braunschweig HRB Nr./. Commercial Register No.: 100484 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Ferdinand Piëch Vorstand/Board of Management: Martin Winterkorn (Vorsitzender/Chairman), Francisco J. Garcia Sanz, Jochem Heizmann, Horst Neumann, Hans Dieter Pötsch
Wichtiger Hinweis: Die vorgenannten Angaben werden jeder E-Mail automatisch hinzugefügt und lassen keine Rückschlüsse auf den Rechtscharakter der E-Mail zu. Important Notice: The above information is automatically added to this e-mail. This addition does not constitute a representation that the content of this e-mail is legally relevant and/or is intended to be legally binding upon VOLKSWAGEN AG.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] Im Auftrag von Rottgardt, Jens (K-SIB-2/3) Gesendet: Montag, 14. April 2008 18:28 An: Inkscape User Community Betreff: Re: [Inkscape-user] translate Attribute stored in SVG Graphic
Hi Bulia,
I would appreciate if you will provide the patch. I understand that you cannot specify a time frame but a rough guess would be great. Maybe next month or next year ;-)
Thanks a lot !
__________________ Jens Rottgardt Buildmanagement ITP Fahrzeugherstellung, K-SIB 2
Postadresse: Volkswagen AG Brieffach 1839 38436 Wolfsburg
Besucheradresse: Volkswagen AG Hermann-Münch-Straße 1 (MobileLife Campus) 38442 Wolfsburg
Telefon +49 -5361-896-3276
Telefax +49 (0) 5361-896-3296 mailto:jens.rottgardt@...2472... http://www.volkswagen.de
VOLKSWAGEN AG Sitz/Domicile: Wolfsburg Registergericht/Court of Registry: Amtsgericht Braunschweig HRB Nr./. Commercial Register No.: 100484 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Ferdinand Piëch Vorstand/Board of Management: Martin Winterkorn (Vorsitzender/Chairman), Francisco J. Garcia Sanz, Jochem Heizmann, Horst Neumann, Hans Dieter Pötsch
Wichtiger Hinweis: Die vorgenannten Angaben werden jeder E-Mail automatisch hinzugefügt und lassen keine Rückschlüsse auf den Rechtscharakter der E-Mail zu. Important Notice: The above information is automatically added to this e-mail. This addition does not constitute a representation that the content of this e-mail is legally relevant and/or is intended to be legally binding upon VOLKSWAGEN AG.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] Im Auftrag von bulia byak Gesendet: Freitag, 4. April 2008 21:20 An: Inkscape User Community Betreff: Re: [Inkscape-user] translate Attribute stored in SVG Graphic
On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 3:44 PM, <david@...2429...> wrote:
but what's happening here sounds like it's neither. you give the object a position and size AND you use a transform to move it elsewhere.
I agree that either one can be the right thing to do at different times, but the combination of them seems wrong.
It's not "wrong". It is valid SVG. It's just inconsistent.
Simply put, up to now it was not a problem for anyone, so we didn't bother fixing it. If it's a problem for you, look up how it's done for rects and submit a patch for ellipses. Otherwise, I _may_ get round to fixing it myself but I cannot promise any specific time frame.
On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Rottgardt, Jens (K-SIB-2/3) <jens.rottgardt@...2472...> wrote:
regarding my "problem" I have asked for a patch. Can anyone provide it ?
As for me, I'm very busy right now, but please add a ticket to our Lunchpad system at https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape so it's not forgotten.
Hi David,
yeah that is the point. Thank you for "translating" it.
... Jens
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] Im Auftrag von david@...2429... Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. April 2008 19:38 An: mail@...2312...; Inkscape User Community Cc: buliabyak@...155... Betreff: Re: [Inkscape-user] translate Attribute stored in SVG Graphic
the answers I'm seeing to this question don't seem to match the question.
as I see it another way to word the question is
why is there a difference between a circle that's placed at 100,100 and one that's placed at 50,50 and then moved to 100,100
the end result looks identical, but the SVG code shows the two steps (and in some cases the two steps are visable to the user)
there's no question that there are transforms that can't be directly represented in the circle, but that's not what's being asked.
David Lang
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008, Diederik van Lierop wrote:
Op Do, 3 april, 2008 08:46, schreef Rottgardt, Jens (K-SIB-2/3):
Hi Jens,
That would indeed be possible, but we haven't implemented it like that (yet) for circles. Storing a separate transformation, like we do now, is needed for example when stretching or skewing the circle. How does your application store such a transformation?
Storing a separate transformation, like Inkscape does, allows for any affine transformation (see wikipedia) to be applied to an object. Modifying the center position and radius, like your application does, only allows for translations and symmetrical scaling. That's why we prefer the former, although we could also have both methods (if only someone would take the time to write the code for that).
Just out of curiosity: what application are you using?
Diederik
Hi,
I don't know if I understood your answer to my 2nd question right. But when moving an object in Inkscape this move is nothing I want to store into the objects properties at least I want to place the circle to a special position. The problem is if I use the SVG graphic in my application I want to move the circle from left to right from the position where I have placed the circle in Inkscape. But what happens is that the circle first is moved to the very first position where I have placed the circle in Inkscape and then moved from that position.
In Inkscape
place the circle to position 50,50
move the circle to position 100, 100 (this move is stored in the
transform translate (why???) )
- save
In my application
The circle is placed to position 100,100
my appliction is moving the circle from left to right and the following
steps happens a) the circle is placed back to position 50,50 b) the circle is moved from left to right
To avoid this I have manually to remove the transform translate attribute in Inkscape and set the cx, cy attributes to the position I want to place the circle.
To keep it short and simple. I want to have the same behaivor for placing a circle like for rectangles !
Jens Rottgardt Buildmanagement ITP Fahrzeugherstellung, K-SIB 2
Postadresse: Volkswagen AG Brieffach 1839 38436 Wolfsburg
Besucheradresse: Volkswagen AG Hermann-Münch-Straße 1 (MobileLife Campus) 38442 Wolfsburg
Telefon +49 -5361-896-3276
Telefax +49 (0) 5361-896-3296 mailto:jens.rottgardt@...2472... http://www.volkswagen.de
VOLKSWAGEN AG Sitz/Domicile: Wolfsburg Registergericht/Court of Registry: Amtsgericht Braunschweig HRB Nr./. Commercial Register No.: 100484 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Ferdinand Piëch Vorstand/Board of Management: Martin Winterkorn (Vorsitzender/Chairman), Francisco J. Garcia Sanz, Jochem Heizmann, Horst Neumann, Hans Dieter Pötsch
Wichtiger Hinweis: Die vorgenannten Angaben werden jeder E-Mail automatisch hinzugefügt und lassen keine Rückschlüsse auf den Rechtscharakter der E-Mail zu. Important Notice: The above information is automatically added to this e-mail. This addition does not constitute a representation that the content of this e-mail is legally relevant and/or is intended to be legally binding upon VOLKSWAGEN AG.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] Im Auftrag von bulia byak Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. April 2008 20:33 An: Inkscape User Community Betreff: Re: [Inkscape-user] translate Attribute stored in SVG Graphic
On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Rottgardt, Jens (K-SIB-2/3) <jens.rottgardt@...2472...> wrote:
- Why does Inkscape uses the path tag for circles instead of the
existing circle tag?
Because otherwise you wouldn't be able to put markers on it, or use text on path with it, or use live path effects.
- When painting a circle in Inkscape and moving it the move is stored
in the transform translate tag. Can anyone tell me why ?
Because you cannot, in general, embed an arbitrary transform into the circle's parameters (center and radii). Actually a move only could be embedded into cx/cy, but since other transforms cannot, we didn't special-case translation (although this is possible, and is done e.g. for rectangles - so if you desperately need that, you can submit a patch).
-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org
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participants (7)
-
unknown＠example.com -
bulia byak -
Daniel Hulme -
Diederik van Lierop -
Kyungjun Lee -
Rottgardt, Jens (K-SIB-2/3) -
Stuart Edwards