Keeping the Size and Changing the Border
Hi Folks!
How to maintain the external size of an object by changing its border thickness? Every time I change the border thickness, the object size automatically changes as well. This is really annoying, because I have to resize again...but in that case the border thickness changes too. So I'm going to repeat this boring procedure until I get it.
Thanks in advance
Alexandre Guglielmi Florianópolis - Santa Catarina - Brazil
Can you show an example?
Alexandre -
I think that what you are looking for is a stroke that is inside the object boundary rather than centred on the object boundary. I believe that the former is not available in Inkscape and is not supported by the SVG standard. However, I think you can get the effect you want using Path > Inset, or Path > Dynamic Offset, or Path > Linked Offset, or Path > Path Effects + Offset. They provide different levels of control.
I'm not very familiar with these tools and don't know where the best documentation is. In playing with them I used various combinations of Edit > Copy & Paste In Place, Object > Raise & Lower, Path > Object to Path, and Object > Fill and Stroke.
- Robert
________________________________ From: Alexandre Guglielmi alexandre.guglielmi@gmail.com Sent: June 27, 2023 20:07 To: inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org Subject: [Inkscape-user] Keeping the Size and Changing the Border
Hi Folks!
How to maintain the external size of an object by changing its border thickness? Every time I change the border thickness, the object size automatically changes as well. This is really annoying, because I have to resize again...but in that case the border thickness changes too. So I'm going to repeat this boring procedure until I get it.
Thanks in advance
Alexandre Guglielmi Florianópolis - Santa Catarina - Brazil
I agree. Inkscape’s convention follows that of pre-computer technical drawing in which the centre of the line is its position. The weight (what some call its thickness but, if you learnt technical drawing by hand, it’s also a consequence of the weight that you impress upon the pencil – though not so for ink; correctly positioning an ink pen is quite a skill) has no bearing on that.
If you wish to define a shape by its outside edge, it must have no line at all. Instead, you think of it as a polygonal frame. Being still cognitively anchored in my pencils, compasses, dividers, setsquares and so on, I instinctively think first to draw both outlines from scratch.
Robert’s solution is much better: it computes the inner boundary from the outer boundary, saving a great deal of work, and eliminating many opportunities for mistakes and inaccuracies.
I conceptualise the process as follows:
If you’re starting from scratch Draw a closed path for the outer boundary polygon OFFSET PATH for the inner boundary polygon COMBINE the two paths into a single complex polygon with a hole Set NO STROKE, and set FILL to simulate the stroke ink
If you have the centre line already drawn with a satisfactory stroke weight, then Convert STROKE TO PATH Resize so that the outer boundary is where you want it
The only difficulty is if you leave this until late in the process of constructing a complicated drawing. By then, the clutter can make it difficult to visually recognise the two polygons that you need to unite into one. I usually give my paths a semi-transparent fill, in a colour that I’m not otherwise using, to make it easier to tell them apart from the other drawing elements.
One more complication: iIf you do use lines of various weights, those may or may not scale with your drawing depending on your scaling settings. There are many situations, such as when preparing engineering and architectural drawings, in which the line weights communicate particular meanings so must not scale at all. Scaling, in these situations, is usually to make space for finer detail, or to fit the paper for physical printing. (In the old days, scaling could be done photographically, including during the blueprinting process.) I mention this in case the rationale helps to make Inkscape’s behaviour more predictable for you. Surprises, especially surprises that look completely arbitrary, can induce a lot of stress.
If you download a variety of vector art specimens, you’ll find that many of them use no line at all for these reasons. What looks like a line is actually a filled polygon, and that makes the image scalable.
Alistair
On 29/06/2023, at 3:57 AM, W. Robert J. Funnell, Prof. robert.funnell@mcgill.ca wrote:
Alexandre -
I think that what you are looking for is a stroke that is inside the object boundary rather than centred on the object boundary. I believe that the former is not available in Inkscape and is not supported by the SVG standard. However, I think you can get the effect you want using Path > Inset, or Path > Dynamic Offset, or Path > Linked Offset, or Path > Path Effects + Offset. They provide different levels of control.
I'm not very familiar with these tools and don't know where the best documentation is. In playing with them I used various combinations of Edit > Copy & Paste In Place, Object > Raise & Lower, Path > Object to Path, and Object > Fill and Stroke.
- Robert
From: Alexandre Guglielmi <alexandre.guglielmi@gmail.com mailto:alexandre.guglielmi@gmail.com> Sent: June 27, 2023 20:07 To: inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org mailto:inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org <inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org mailto:inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org> Subject: [Inkscape-user] Keeping the Size and Changing the Border
Hi Folks!
How to maintain the external size of an object by changing its border thickness? Every time I change the border thickness, the object size automatically changes as well. This is really annoying, because I have to resize again...but in that case the border thickness changes too. So I'm going to repeat this boring procedure until I get it.
Thanks in advance
Alexandre Guglielmi Florianópolis - Santa Catarina - Brazil _______________________________________________ Inkscape Users mailing list -- inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org mailto:inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-user-leave@lists.inkscape.org mailto:inkscape-user-leave@lists.inkscape.org
I personally agree with you, It seems there isn't a proper way to setting the size of rect without stroke change.
Bright.
From: Alistair K Date: 2023-06-29 04:45 To: W. Robert J. Funnell, Prof. CC: Alexandre Guglielmi; inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org Subject: [Inkscape-user] Re: Keeping the Size and Changing the Border I agree. Inkscape��s convention follows that of pre-computer technical drawing in which the centre of the line is its position. The weight (what some call its thickness but, if you learnt technical drawing by hand, it��s also a consequence of the weight that you impress upon the pencil �C though not so for ink; correctly positioning an ink pen is quite a skill) has no bearing on that.
If you wish to define a shape by its outside edge, it must have no line at all. Instead, you think of it as a polygonal frame. Being still cognitively anchored in my pencils, compasses, dividers, setsquares and so on, I instinctively think first to draw both outlines from scratch.
Robert��s solution is much better: it computes the inner boundary from the outer boundary, saving a great deal of work, and eliminating many opportunities for mistakes and inaccuracies.
I conceptualise the process as follows:
If you��re starting from scratch Draw a closed path for the outer boundary polygon OFFSET PATH for the inner boundary polygon COMBINE the two paths into a single complex polygon with a hole Set NO STROKE, and set FILL to simulate the stroke ink
If you have the centre line already drawn with a satisfactory stroke weight, then Convert STROKE TO PATH Resize so that the outer boundary is where you want it
The only difficulty is if you leave this until late in the process of constructing a complicated drawing. By then, the clutter can make it difficult to visually recognise the two polygons that you need to unite into one. I usually give my paths a semi-transparent fill, in a colour that I��m not otherwise using, to make it easier to tell them apart from the other drawing elements.
One more complication: iIf you do use lines of various weights, those may or may not scale with your drawing depending on your scaling settings. There are many situations, such as when preparing engineering and architectural drawings, in which the line weights communicate particular meanings so must not scale at all. Scaling, in these situations, is usually to make space for finer detail, or to fit the paper for physical printing. (In the old days, scaling could be done photographically, including during the blueprinting process.) I mention this in case the rationale helps to make Inkscape��s behaviour more predictable for you. Surprises, especially surprises that look completely arbitrary, can induce a lot of stress.
If you download a variety of vector art specimens, you��ll find that many of them use no line at all for these reasons. What looks like a line is actually a filled polygon, and that makes the image scalable.
Alistair
On 29/06/2023, at 3:57 AM, W. Robert J. Funnell, Prof. robert.funnell@mcgill.ca wrote:
Alexandre -
I think that what you are looking for is a stroke that is inside the object boundary rather than centred on the object boundary. I believe that the former is not available in Inkscape and is not supported by the SVG standard. However, I think you can get the effect you want using Path > Inset, or Path > Dynamic Offset, or Path > Linked Offset, or Path > Path Effects + Offset. They provide different levels of control.
I'm not very familiar with these tools and don't know where the best documentation is. In playing with them I used various combinations of Edit > Copy & Paste In Place, Object > Raise & Lower, Path > Object to Path, and Object > Fill and Stroke.
- Robert
From: Alexandre Guglielmi alexandre.guglielmi@gmail.com Sent: June 27, 2023 20:07 To: inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org Subject: [Inkscape-user] Keeping the Size and Changing the Border
Hi Folks!
How to maintain the external size of an object by changing its border thickness? Every time I change the border thickness, the object size automatically changes as well. This is really annoying, because I have to resize again...but in that case the border thickness changes too. So I'm going to repeat this boring procedure until I get it.
Thanks in advance
Alexandre Guglielmi Florian��polis - Santa Catarina - Brazil _______________________________________________ Inkscape Users mailing list -- inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-user-leave@lists.inkscape.org
People,
I don't have anything of substance to contribute to this discussion except to say I find it really interesting conceptually! I have only ever been an occasional user of Inkscape over the years but have always much appreciated the huge effort that all you very talented people have put in to create this great program!
Regards,
Phil.
On 2023-06-29 10:06, hc_hc_hc@126.com wrote:
I personally agree with you, It seems there isn't a proper way to setting the size of rect without stroke change.
Bright.
From: Alistair K Date: 2023-06-29 04:45 To: W. Robert J. Funnell, Prof. CC: Alexandre Guglielmi; inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org Subject: [Inkscape-user] Re: Keeping the Size and Changing the Border
I agree. Inkscape’s convention follows that of pre-computer technical drawing in which the centre of the line is its position. The weight (what some call its thickness but, if you learnt technical drawing by hand, it’s also a consequence of the weight that you impress upon the pencil – though not so for ink; correctly positioning an ink pen is quite a skill) has no bearing on that.
If you wish to define a shape by its outside edge, it must have no line at all. Instead, you think of it as a polygonal frame. Being still cognitively anchored in my pencils, compasses, dividers, setsquares and so on, I instinctively think first to draw both outlines from scratch.
Robert’s solution is much better: it computes the inner boundary from the outer boundary, saving a great deal of work, and eliminating many opportunities for mistakes and inaccuracies.
I conceptualise the process as follows:
If you’re starting from scratch
- Draw a closed path for the outer boundary polygon
- OFFSET PATH for the inner boundary polygon
- COMBINE the two paths into a single complex polygon with a hole
- Set NO STROKE, and set FILL to simulate the stroke ink
If you have the centre line already drawn with a satisfactory stroke weight, then
- Convert STROKE TO PATH
- Resize so that the outer boundary is where you want it
The only difficulty is if you leave this until late in the process of constructing a complicated drawing. By then, the clutter can make it difficult to visually recognise the two polygons that you need to unite into one. I usually give my paths a semi-transparent fill, in a colour that I’m not otherwise using, to make it easier to tell them apart from the other drawing elements.
One more complication: iIf you do use lines of various weights, those may or may not scale with your drawing depending on your scaling settings. There are many situations, such as when preparing engineering and architectural drawings, in which the line weights communicate particular meanings so must not scale at all. Scaling, in these situations, is usually to make space for finer detail, or to fit the paper for physical printing. (In the old days, scaling could be done photographically, including during the blueprinting process.) I mention this in case the rationale helps to make Inkscape’s behaviour more predictable for you. Surprises, especially surprises that look completely arbitrary, can induce a lot of stress.
If you download a variety of vector art specimens, you’ll find that many of them use no line at all for these reasons. What looks like a line is actually a filled polygon, and that makes the image scalable.
Alistair
On 29/06/2023, at 3:57 AM, W. Robert J. Funnell, Prof. robert.funnell@mcgill.ca wrote:
Alexandre -
I think that what you are looking for is a stroke that is inside the object boundary rather than centred on the object boundary. I believe that the former is not available in Inkscape and is not supported by the SVG standard. However, I think you can get the effect you want using Path > Inset, or Path > Dynamic Offset, or Path > Linked Offset, or Path > Path Effects + Offset. They provide different levels of control.
I'm not very familiar with these tools and don't know where the best documentation is. In playing with them I used various combinations of Edit > Copy & Paste In Place, Object > Raise & Lower, Path > Object to Path, and Object > Fill and Stroke.
- Robert
From: Alexandre Guglielmi alexandre.guglielmi@gmail.com Sent: June 27, 2023 20:07 To: inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org Subject: [Inkscape-user] Keeping the Size and Changing the Border
Hi Folks!
How to maintain the external size of an object by changing its border thickness? Every time I change the border thickness, the object size automatically changes as well. This is really annoying, because I have to resize again...but in that case the border thickness changes too. So I'm going to repeat this boring procedure until I get it.
Thanks in advance
Alexandre Guglielmi Florianópolis - Santa Catarina - Brazil_______________________________________________ Inkscape Users mailing list -- inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-user-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Inkscape Users mailing list -- inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-user-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Alistair, thank you for your response and your attempt to help work around this inkscape limitation. I will try to apply the suggestions offered.
Thank you again.🙏🏻
Alexandre
Em qua., 28 de jun. de 2023 17:45, Alistair K alistair.kwan@gmail.com escreveu:
I agree. Inkscape’s convention follows that of pre-computer technical drawing in which the centre of the line is its position. The weight (what some call its thickness but, if you learnt technical drawing by hand, it’s also a consequence of the weight that you impress upon the pencil – though not so for ink; correctly positioning an ink pen is quite a skill) has no bearing on that.
If you wish to define a shape by its outside edge, it must have no line at all. Instead, you think of it as a polygonal frame. Being still cognitively anchored in my pencils, compasses, dividers, setsquares and so on, I instinctively think first to draw both outlines from scratch.
Robert’s solution is much better: it computes the inner boundary from the outer boundary, saving a great deal of work, and eliminating many opportunities for mistakes and inaccuracies.
I conceptualise the process as follows:
If you’re starting from scratch
- Draw a closed path for the outer boundary polygon
- OFFSET PATH for the inner boundary polygon
- COMBINE the two paths into a single complex polygon with a hole
- Set NO STROKE, and set FILL to simulate the stroke ink
If you have the centre line already drawn with a satisfactory stroke weight, then
- Convert STROKE TO PATH
- Resize so that the outer boundary is where you want it
The only difficulty is if you leave this until late in the process of constructing a complicated drawing. By then, the clutter can make it difficult to visually recognise the two polygons that you need to unite into one. I usually give my paths a semi-transparent fill, in a colour that I’m not otherwise using, to make it easier to tell them apart from the other drawing elements.
One more complication: iIf you do use lines of various weights, those may or may not scale with your drawing depending on your scaling settings. There are many situations, such as when preparing engineering and architectural drawings, in which the line weights communicate particular meanings so must not scale at all. Scaling, in these situations, is usually to make space for finer detail, or to fit the paper for physical printing. (In the old days, scaling could be done photographically, including during the blueprinting process.) I mention this in case the rationale helps to make Inkscape’s behaviour more predictable for you. Surprises, especially surprises that look completely arbitrary, can induce a lot of stress.
If you download a variety of vector art specimens, you’ll find that many of them use no line at all for these reasons. What looks like a line is actually a filled polygon, and that makes the image scalable.
Alistair
On 29/06/2023, at 3:57 AM, W. Robert J. Funnell, Prof. < robert.funnell@mcgill.ca> wrote:
Alexandre -
I think that what you are looking for is a stroke that is inside the object boundary rather than centred on the object boundary. I believe that the former is not available in Inkscape and is not supported by the SVG standard. However, I think you can get the effect you want using Path > Inset, or Path > Dynamic Offset, or Path > Linked Offset, or Path > Path Effects + Offset. They provide different levels of control.
I'm not very familiar with these tools and don't know where the best documentation is. In playing with them I used various combinations of Edit
Copy & Paste In Place, Object > Raise & Lower, Path > Object to Path, and
Object > Fill and Stroke.
- Robert
*From:* Alexandre Guglielmi alexandre.guglielmi@gmail.com *Sent:* June 27, 2023 20:07 *To:* inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org *Subject:* [Inkscape-user] Keeping the Size and Changing the Border
Hi Folks!
How to maintain the external size of an object by changing its border thickness? Every time I change the border thickness, the object size automatically changes as well. This is really annoying, because I have to resize again...but in that case the border thickness changes too. So I'm going to repeat this boring procedure until I get it.
Thanks in advance
Alexandre Guglielmi Florianópolis - Santa Catarina - Brazil _______________________________________________ Inkscape Users mailing list -- inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-user-leave@lists.inkscape.org
participants (6)
-
Alexandre Guglielmi -
Alistair K -
hc_hc_hc＠126.com -
Nathan Upchurch -
Philip Rhoades -
W. Robert J. Funnell, Prof.