2019-11-18 14-16-15 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Do you remember who added the DKIM to our mailing list server's DNS? I need some advice.
2019-01-17 12-45-07 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Maybe things like proton need a helping hand? (Or inkscape should think again about hiring?)
2018-10-09 09-14-56 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Priority One request: How long does it take to move the inkscape.org dns to a new host?
2019-01-17 12-53-15 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>(also asking if people would be put out by it)
2018-09-23 14-39-24 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>So do we remove 117 from being linked from +inkscape?
2018-10-07 12-15-23 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>If you can get me a cert for test.inkscape.org too, that would be awesome.
2018-09-23 14-53-21 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>nice.
2019-07-12 11-40-18 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>We can pick this up later if we need to. This forums issue will get resolved for sure.
2018-09-23 14-53-25 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>thanks bryce
2018-09-23 11-03-58 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>I'm hoping we can have a quick chat about the exchange I've had with Grady.
2019-07-12 11-36-21 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>There was no changes, just a feature request.
2020-01-24 15-43-25 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>I also wanted to add an appologie if I stressed you out with pushing for backup people for some of the jobs. It's my greatest hope that you continue with inkscape leadership, my fear over what I remember the effects of canonical employment biases my mood but that's not your fault at all.
2019-01-17 12-55-00 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/mull
2018-09-23 14-22-38 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>The owner of the group hasn't been active on the internet for 2 years, so it's unsure if the group is actually unattended.
2018-10-09 15-34-36 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>You looking for more Open Source work? (I assume full employment is your default)
2020-09-25 16-02-05 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Hi Bryce, let me know if you're available for a chat at some point.
2018-10-09 15-27-40 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>sorry to hear that.
2019-04-08 07-45-42 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Off the public record, I've been having a lot of trouble with Moini and Patrick; trying to put a stop to the extensions development and revert to 0.92 extensions (because everything worked back then!) and I'm worried that the project doesn't see any value in the massive amounts of work I've put in trying to do this hard thing. I know this is paranoid which is why I tell you in confidence that I'm worried that unless the extensions are PERFECT, then there will be a call for reversion to get the release out.
2018-09-23 14-42-21 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Yes, which is what Chris will be asked to applogise for. I think he thought the group was official.
2019-01-17 12-53-04 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>They won't be as or near SCALE right, so next face to face is probably LibrePlanet 2019. I think the burning questions are just how much money Inkscape as a project should have for a year scale hiring. And if we should put it to the community as a project we may want to work on.
2018-10-07 12-15-10 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Could you create `test.inkscape.org` and point it at `inkscape1.osuosl.org`, I want to rule out cert issues with 140.211.9.79 but I can't because I don't control the DNS
2018-09-23 11-03-41 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Morning bryce.
2018-09-23 14-23-41 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>That would be a trademark problem, someone pretending to be Inkscape while hating us.
2018-11-20 20-57-45 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Hi bryce. We've got pretty much all the features requested for the forums. Have a look.
2018-09-23 14-21-26 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Thanks Bryce. It good to be validated somewhat, with all the patience it takes to receive what is basically abuse. But attempt to keep things on track.
2018-09-23 14-38-37 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Oh I see how it works, it's attached
2019-07-12 11-40-01 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>No, I understand you're trying to help. I thought I had a better reputation than evidenced above.
2018-09-23 14-51-52 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>and printing
2019-03-07 17-38-38 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>I'm betting Patrick feels somewhat protective of Thomas.
2018-09-23 17-42-41 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Thanks Bryce!
2019-07-12 11-37-13 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>You seem to be attacking me. Which isn't helpful.
2019-01-17 12-43-19 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Have you the skills for this new fen-dangled xorg replacement?
2019-01-17 12-42-57 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>:whale:
2018-10-07 12-15-37 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>But maybe for now I'll revert everything to inkscape.org and change my host
2018-09-23 14-51-27 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Just sent you a draft email
2019-07-12 11-35-44 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>I'm not going to touch the issue to be fair.
2018-11-20 20-58-08 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Screenshot from 2018-11-20 23-55-11.png (https://chat.inkscape.org/file-upload/GFr8oy7sBa5NjseKf/Screenshot%20from%202018-11-20%2023-55-11.png)
2018-09-23 14-45-15 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Aye
2018-09-23 14-23-24 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>My second tier concern is that if Grady is mentally unstable, then he'll continue to act with poor judgement,but look like he's acting for Inkscape.
2018-10-09 15-22-53 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>140.211.9.79
2019-01-17 12-55-21 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Don't mind me, I treat English like python, weirdly and untested. :wink:
2018-09-23 14-34-56 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Do we specify at all?
2018-09-23 17-42-38 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Email sent, all your suggestions added and a bit added to the first paragraph.
2018-09-23 14-35-24 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>We have processes in Vectors to publish things in channels, one of those is G+
2018-09-23 14-37-28 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>I believe those records might not be complete.
2018-09-23 14-22-02 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>I agree with both your assessment of the technicals and the likely most effective political solution.
2018-09-23 14-51-48 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Please do, any information is good. I remember some things about color profiles.
2019-03-25 04-32-43 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Looks like we have our first spammer natash223, please delete.
2018-09-24 07-51-52 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Excellent (https://chat.inkscape.org/file-upload/PZdv6f5xrTDKstSaP/Excellent)
2018-09-23 14-41-06 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>OK. Sounds good
2018-11-20 21-00-14 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>So I'm hoping I can get some backing, at least in terms of giving it a serious go. (or at least less negativity for our website)
2018-10-09 15-43-31 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>No permission to see it, but that's ok.
2018-10-09 15-33-25 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>That sounds bad; both for yourself, but also for open source in general.
2018-09-23 14-32-16 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>It's the worst solution for sure
2019-01-17 12-42-06 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Hope all is well, did you manage to get a new job?
2018-09-23 14-53-47 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>the trick is to use solar pannels
2018-10-09 15-23-29 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>The DNS stuff is tightly centrally managed. How can we share this administration?
2018-09-23 14-30-22 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Do we monitor the siutation? If we have a CoC, but people can just be utter jerks because they're a part of a seperated republic, then it really doesn't do much.
2018-10-07 12-19-18 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Actually scrap all that, we can stick to the plan of setting up `staging.inkscape.org` later and make sure this machines gets to be inkscape.org
2020-04-28 07-37-07 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>How you doing bryce? All quiet on the Ubuntu front so I take it a successful LTS? (not sure if Canonical are working on owt else)
2018-10-09 15-20-01 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Can you do that? The goal is 2018-10-11T14:00:00+0 or there abouts.
2018-11-20 20-59-03 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>I don't want the same nay-saying that killed the forum last time to drag this effort down again.
2020-01-25 13-36-41 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Not sure if you intended to reply in public. :scream_cat: thanks bryce.
2018-10-09 15-27-16 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>you seem super busy, everything ok?
2019-01-17 12-48-50 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>I think so. Is this something we've brought up with the conservancy before? Rather than just a contract?
2019-01-17 12-54-04 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Consider them mull enabled.
2018-10-09 15-13-42 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>That's really slow, could we possibly have the website down for 24 hours?
2018-09-23 14-35-34 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>We can't publish to +inkscape, because that name's taken.
2019-01-17 12-47-07 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>The hurdles for Inkscape are health inssurance and pay stability over a set period right.
2019-01-17 12-54-46 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>to mull something over.
2018-09-23 14-35-52 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>So do we specify that we do not operate a G+ community so everyone knows to stay away?
2018-10-09 15-37-08 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>That's what it looked like at DevConf, they couldn't stop talking about it.
2019-03-07 17-38-21 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>I don't think it's a chewing and more of a momma bear situation.
2019-04-08 07-59-34 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>calling
2020-01-24 15-41-31 PSTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Hi Bryce. I'm checking in to see how your doing, personally and with the new job. I don't know if we ever gave you a proper appologie for fucking up the SFC hiring so badly. I feel like I didn't step up to break the catch22 enough within the time we had, and I greatly regret it.
2018-09-23 14-55-19 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>lol, I do the mech +speed, although it's nurfed now
2018-10-09 15-27-03 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>thanks
2019-07-12 11-19-13 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>I'm actually at a loss there, I've stepped back and looked, but all I get is more confused. It just doesn't add up.
2018-10-09 15-35-47 PDTMartin Owens <doctormo@geek-2.com>Did you checkout RedHat?
2018-09-23 14-33-51 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>if it's a community we have no ownership of, I'm not sure we have responsibility or authority to deal with problems arising on it
2018-09-23 12-17-02 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>anyway, thanks again for taking the lead here; in the future try to loop me in prior to starting the engagement, I can probably give better advice at that point.
2018-09-23 14-35-07 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>how do you mean?
2018-09-23 14-42-08 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>thinking
2018-09-23 12-09-04 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>the Chris that he had the earlier run in with was a completely different Chris, a german named Christoffer Holmstedt
2018-10-09 15-26-56 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>I've sent off the request.
2019-04-08 07-52-41 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>yeah I think I can understand everyone's feelings here
2018-09-23 12-00-47 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>we probably should have had a chat prior to the initial engagement; I could have given you some additional background and maybe steered you on a better path
2019-01-17 12-42-21 PSTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>no new job yet :-/
2018-09-23 14-32-18 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>I hear you... but we can't police the internet obviously, so there's going to have to be some boundary
2019-01-17 12-46-26 PSTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>working for Inkscape would be great, yeah. I don't know much about proton.
2018-09-23 14-37-00 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>in my records I show we have two G+ channels, one is +inkscape, the other is this community group
2019-07-12 11-35-05 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>For now, wait on Josh's guidance. But beyond that I would suggest to try and focus on finding your common ground - what is the bigger picture you two are 100% in agreement on, what goals do you both share, and work from there. Establish that and build from there, don't get stuck on the weeds and let things get derailed on parts that are just confused.
2019-01-17 12-51-10 PSTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>not formally, no. I did have lunch with Bradly last month and we touched on employing developers for funded development work, and I mentioned healthcare being something we couldn't provide and he handwaved that there were ways to address that. I didn't get into any details though.
2018-09-23 14-41-33 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>we should probably keep in mind here, Chris wasn't acting in an official capacity for Inkscape, so technically we don't have a beef with the group, it's just a personal dust up between him and one of their moderators
2019-01-17 12-42-46 PSTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>I applied to rejoin canonical but I think the skills they're looking for are not X.org/graphics
2019-03-07 17-53-34 PSTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>could be, whatever the case, I find it hard to not be annoying to him. :-/
2018-09-23 14-28-36 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>the group lists quite a few moderators, and even if the owner is inactive I don't think that means we should step in. The moderators of that group can determine what they want to do themselves.
2019-04-08 07-57-29 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>it does sound like a very hard thing, and I suspect that's what's worrying about people - we expect this to be really challenging to pull off well, and there's probably a very high risk of unexpected issues
2018-09-23 11-59-26 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>thanks for ccing me in the discussions; you're doing a good job dealing with the situation.
2018-10-09 15-35-14 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>yeah hoping to stay with open source in some form
2018-09-23 12-09-29 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>he's actually a member of Scribus, not Inkscape, and hasn't participated any further with us since that dust up (unfortunately)
2018-09-23 12-10-14 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>maybe Grady has PTSD about Chrisses. ;-)
2018-09-23 14-42-40 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>I did as well, although I thought it was owned by Josh.
2018-09-23 11-58-41 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>hi martin
2018-09-23 12-07-13 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>so.... if this is true, I'm not sure we have authority over how they run the group. And if Chris was participating there of his own accord and not as a representative of Inkscape, then I'm not sure we have any role at all in this matter. However, since Chris' posts were deleted I have no ability to verify what was said or done.
2018-09-23 12-19-52 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>as to how to clean this up... ideally I think a sincere apology from Chris would be in the works - if only because even though he wasn't acting as a board member, fact is he is one, so it reflects poorly on the project. You're probably right this may be a tough thing to ask though, but in an ideal world that's the diplomatic course.
2019-01-17 12-47-47 PSTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>probably more the latter. I could stay on COBRA for a while still
2019-07-12 11-41-07 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>Yes, hopefully Josh can give some useful guidance.
2019-03-07 17-35-07 PSTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>ugh, I hate getting chewed out by patrick
2018-09-23 12-05-08 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>I looked at the G+ group in question - I don't recognize the names of any of the moderators, and it is owned by some russian guy. I had in my notes that Josh was the admin, but that appears not to be the case. I don't know what the history of the group is but as it's configured currently, Grady's right this seems to be a completely independent group from us
2018-10-09 15-27-21 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>no
2018-09-23 12-08-02 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>however, there is one point of confusion, that's a bit humorous even though it's the cause of some stress for Grady
2019-04-08 07-55-21 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>there is no doubt that you do massive amounts of work, it's always impressive
2018-09-23 14-40-50 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>maybe, but it might be too rash to do it right this moment, there is still a question of what *they* want the relationship to be
2019-01-17 12-45-04 PSTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>but yeah I have useful experience in that area, just not the hard core internals
2019-07-12 11-38-05 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>sorry, I'm trying to offer constructive criticism but perhaps this is not the time or place for that
2018-09-23 14-54-07 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>she likes grenades
2018-09-23 14-31-18 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>fwiw, I really don't like the idea of using the trademark as a cudgel to force communities to do things. I saw that used back in my D&D days against communities I was involved in, and it created a humongous amount of ill will.
2018-10-09 15-36-33 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>yep, first place I applied to. They're staffing up on kubernetes mostly
2018-09-23 14-28-57 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>if we were to push ourselves on them, given this situation, it would really blow up.
2019-07-12 11-36-33 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>Martin, you need to remember that you *pushed* to take over implementing the forum, rather than using something off the shelf, so you have some responsibility here to make sure things go well
2019-04-08 07-52-50 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>do you want to phone me? if you do, 503.524.2655.
2018-09-23 22-01-32 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>nicely done, appears to have worked as planned
2019-07-12 11-35-51 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>understand your own personality too - think of other instances where you've had differences of opinions or where your changes have upset someone, and how those got resolved
2018-09-23 14-33-07 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>if we own a community site, then we definitely have CoC oversight duties. No question there
2019-07-12 11-38-21 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>besides, I don't know any specifics about the issue in question
2018-09-23 14-44-59 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>I wish Josh was more active, it'd be useful to get his input on the ownership sitch
2018-10-09 15-22-23 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>maybe, I got a lot going on right now. what's the new IP?
2018-09-23 12-03-41 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>maybe in the future we can make it a policy to discuss what to do beforehand. Might help ensure we have all the right facts and a good strategy
2018-09-23 15-47-03 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>I had said Chris Holmstedt earlier, but actually you're right it was Christoph Schafer
2018-10-09 15-19-22 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>might be quicker during business hours or if we pre-arrange it
2018-10-09 13-54-27 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>osuosl seems to handle dns requests within about 24 hrs
2018-09-23 14-47-57 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>were you following the prior incident? I can give you the reader's digest version
2020-04-28 11-40-27 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>yep
2019-01-17 12-53-06 PSTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>I do have ideas on how to strengthen our sponsorship systems, and maybe some new avenues to look for money, like grant programs and so on. Would take a lot of work to solicit sponsors but it wouldn't take too many more sponsors to get us to the level we need to be
2019-01-17 12-53-25 PSTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>right
2019-01-17 12-55-02 PSTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>ahhh
2018-09-23 14-21-47 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>yeah
2019-01-17 12-44-35 PSTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>I doubt I'll take a job working on wayland. It's too niche and honestly there's not much needing to be done at that level.
2019-07-12 11-37-18 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>it may be that you're right, but you need to get people on the same page with you first, not just bull ahead knowing you're right
2018-09-23 12-21-19 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>if the group is indeed unaffiliated with Inkscape and wishes no official ties with us, then it would probably be appropriate to recognize that, and for you to apologize for overstepping any boundaries out of our misunderstanding of our relationship with their group (or something to that effect).
2019-01-17 12-53-44 PSTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>all good questions, I don't know the answer to
2018-09-23 12-17-51 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>you're doing a remarkably good job, better than I probably would, but I think in this case maybe a different angle on it would have worked better.
2019-01-17 12-43-49 PSTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>I got kind of sidetracked due to my mom's funeral, and then the inkscape release. There's always something to consume free time.
2018-10-09 15-42-17 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>RT support.osuosl.org #30323
2019-01-17 12-48-21 PSTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>I imagine the actual employment would be through Conservancy? so maybe they'd have a solution for that
2018-09-23 12-24-58 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>IMHO, #1 priority here is to not leave any bad blood. We may need the goodwill of this group in the future (I'm thinking of a company whose name begins with W), so better to let Grady save face and back out of the situation, then to push ahead and maybe make things worse.
2018-09-23 14-53-09 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>ok in a bit; daughter just got home and wants to play factorio
2018-10-09 15-32-58 PDTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>Samsung is shutting down its Open Source department, so been busy with job hunt stuff.
2019-01-17 12-54-29 PSTBryce Harrington <bryce@bryceharrington.org>mull?