2019-04-14 11-14-00 PDT SrrReal I am trying to understand the team in its fairly initial days... that's where this question comes from 2019-04-14 10-53-15 PDT SrrReal First things first... could you tell me a little bit about how you came to be a part of Inkscape? 2019-04-14 09-16-48 PDT SrrReal I want to check with you if we could chat for a bit about Inkscape? This is for the course project I am working on... I am studying Inkscape as a case of a FOSS community to understand how the identity of a community is shaped by its contributors. 2019-04-14 12-25-14 PDT SrrReal Haha that's true! Final question... Inkscape seems to have certain values, core to it - such as passion, patience - would you think there are ways in which this becomes visible to users or folks outside the community? 2019-04-14 10-59-32 PDT SrrReal over two years? 2019-04-14 12-46-41 PDT SrrReal no hurries! 2019-04-14 12-42-59 PDT SrrReal definitely! I am planning to share my draft ethnography with all of you - and I am hoping I can translate some of into non-academic useful posts/documents for the team and community 2019-04-14 11-34-19 PDT SrrReal Amazed because often one reads about how open source communities can be tough spaces to navigate? That there is a certain way you need to ask questions... that people maybe rude, etc, etc. Somehow, I don't see it here... Would you say Inkscape is different in that sense? 2019-04-14 12-36-37 PDT SrrReal Are there specific people you feel I should speak to, to better understand some of these things? 2019-04-14 10-50-16 PDT SrrReal Hi Michele, now would work for me as well! 2019-04-14 11-13-25 PDT SrrReal When you got on the Vectors team, what were some of the things you and others worked on at that time? 2019-04-14 12-40-59 PDT SrrReal Thanks a lot for your time to speak with me, I really appreciate it! 2019-04-14 12-05-20 PDT SrrReal Maren is a rockstar on the user channel from what I have seen! Always always seems to have answers for all kinds of questions relating to Inkscape! 2019-04-14 10-52-36 PDT SrrReal great! 2019-04-14 12-46-02 PDT SrrReal I was also wondering - I created the welcome survey as a doc... in the content repo... I wasn't sure how to proceed after this - https://gitlab.com/inkscape/vectors/content/blob/master/articles/Welcome%20S... 2019-04-14 10-51-35 PDT SrrReal I love how you are asking all the questions I thought I would be asking :'D 2019-04-14 12-44-53 PDT SrrReal Yes, more power to us! 2019-04-14 09-19-17 PDT SrrReal I have interacted with a few users so far and those who have made contributions on and off to Inkscape... It's helped me understand how they view Inkscape from the outside, what they value in it, etc. Now I am looking to speak with folks who have been more involved with the project to understand how they see Inkscape 2019-04-14 11-49-10 PDT SrrReal And to think that all of this is volunteer driven! different people, different takes - all come together. There's a lot of discussion, back and forth but it is always civil and respectful 2019-04-14 11-07-42 PDT SrrReal when you say you had become a big fan, that's because of their features? or being cost effective or other reasons? 2019-04-14 12-40-13 PDT SrrReal Perfect, I'll definitely go over the Facebook group as well! 2019-04-14 11-21-44 PDT SrrReal oh this was the article? the first one you worked on? 2019-04-14 12-23-02 PDT SrrReal yep, that's really useful. I'll remember to check some of the closed issues too! 2019-04-14 11-51-32 PDT SrrReal Like you had mentioned earlier, people discussed about choosing tools... how do discussions, where there is disagreement, get resolved? I am curious about this because the calm in the conversations almost feels natural 2019-04-14 12-35-00 PDT SrrReal yes, that does directly speak to my question on visibility. 2019-04-14 11-39-23 PDT SrrReal to an extent it does make sense... at least the good people part from what I have seen. Why do you say Inkscapers are also rebels? 2019-04-14 09-14-42 PDT SrrReal Hey Michele! 2019-04-14 09-19-50 PDT SrrReal Would you be interested in chatting about this? 2019-04-14 12-43-42 PDT SrrReal since it is only for a course project, it might be limited in scope but nevertheless I shall share my work 2019-04-14 11-24-15 PDT SrrReal introducing an open source doc meaning which tool to use? that sparked a lot of discussion? 2019-04-14 10-59-19 PDT SrrReal ah I see, so Vectors has been around for a while now? 2019-04-14 11-46-54 PDT SrrReal oh yes, the inkscape_user channel is brimming with life almost 24x7! 2019-04-14 12-46-14 PDT SrrReal ah ha, the timing! :D 2019-04-14 12-11-39 PDT SrrReal the issue flow seems useful once I figured out that's how it works. Once I opened my first issue, the chaos cleared and began to make better sense. I would assume it must intuitive now! But to begin with, it must have been a totally unheard of work flow, isn't it? How did we get here? 2019-04-14 11-12-25 PDT SrrReal Oh yes, totally. When I first opened a simple house clipart I had created, as a vector, I was thrilled to understand the math behind it! 2019-04-14 12-35-42 PDT SrrReal This has been such a great conversation, Michele! Very useful for my research as its given me a lot to think about and go over but also as a team member, very inspiring! 2019-04-14 12-46-34 PDT SrrReal sure! take your time! 2019-04-14 11-33-04 PDT SrrReal In the few weeks since I have joined I have witnessed the passion and patience repeatedly.. and I have been amazed! 2019-04-14 12-21-21 PDT SrrReal Oh okay, I'll make a note to look at some older issues to get the picture.. and I think the team has then come a long way, now using the repo for graphics as well 2019-04-14 10-50-38 PDT SrrReal It should take about 20-25 minutes. 2019-04-14 11-01-06 PDT SrrReal Thank you! I think earlier Ryan also mentioned that Vectors has been around for 2-3 years or so... I think he mentioned in the team meeting last week 2019-04-14 10-51-56 PDT SrrReal If it is okay to chat, we could continue this way? 2019-04-14 12-01-02 PDT SrrReal sure 2019-04-14 11-01-46 PDT SrrReal Just to go back to what you said... You were using Inkscape (versus other alternatives) because? 2019-04-14 12-00-32 PDT SrrReal could you give an example here? Maybe an instance where you felt people really collaborated well to get something done? working through decisions or differences patiently... 2019-04-14 11-49-27 PDT SrrReal where do you feel that comes from? 2019-04-14 12-49-47 PDT SrrReal Sure, we can collaborate on the issue and comments. Bye bye! 2019-04-14 12-23-22 PDT SrrReal Oh I didn't realise we have been chatting for close to 90 minutes! 2019-04-14 11-42-39 PDT Michèle Thibeau Oh definitely! People here seem to be outsiders, another good movie, or folks who don't need to conform to all of society's standards. I believe that this is part of the glue - spoken or not - that holds us together. I've learned more about some of the people here in the space and they have tremendous values and respect those who have different ones when we come together to share about advancing the project. Will this continue? Is it a continuum? Nothing stays the same in our world, in my humble experience. That's part of the beauty and the fragility. We are here now and next month things could change. Things will change. We are all volunteers, and so life and work and intrinsic motivation play powerful roles in how we interact and collaborate here. 2019-04-14 11-57-56 PDT Michèle Thibeau I hope that makes sense and answers at least one of your questions. 2019-04-14 11-55-55 PDT Michèle Thibeau People here are problem solvers. They have come to seek answers or to give back - to contribute. They come with respect - and if they don't, I don' t think they last long - and so they seek the same respect from others. This is a powerful, empowering community - at least this is what I have seen in my short time here. Are there personalities and history? Absolutely. At the same time, each one of us, as we contribute and interact, is changing the environment. We have choices to make in how we do it and why and when. In observing others at work and play, we see and we are invited to collaborate with allies. And to see everyone here as such. In my experience, I have seen a strong sense of people seeking to learn from each other, to lift up each other, to seek to encourage and empower each other to participate and grow. When things get negative, we have a choice in how or if we interact. Different people play different roles in this, perhaps others behind the scenes. It's all public and all open, so it's transparent - for good or for bad. We are real on here, warts and all. It seems to hold us more accountable and reveals very quickly the why behind our collaboration - the goals or objectives. Perhaps that's what leads to relationships being built. We're giving of ourselves and our skills and we're being (trying to be) good humans here. We're all in search of places where we can live that. Inkscape, in my experience, is that and more. 2019-04-14 11-04-26 PDT Michèle Thibeau Great question! I began using GIMP a number of years back, I want to say just under a decade ago, to do photo editing and then digital art. The idea was to own the rights to my work, so to use software I could afford that would enable me to do this. My partner helped me find GIMP way back and then Inkscape followed. Can't recall whether it was my find or not in searching for an alternative. I have become a big fan of these two tools, among others for other uses, and often hashtag them when sharing my work and speak to them and share them with friends and colleagues. I also use Inkscape at work for a variety of things. 2019-04-14 10-50-42 PDT Michèle Thibeau Okay, perfect. Would you like to chat like this or with voice or... let me know. 2019-04-14 11-45-21 PDT Michèle Thibeau If you're seeking to see some of the heart and soul of this project, head to the team_devel channel and or the inkscape_user channel. You'll see people in action, helping - serving others, selflessly. We all serve this community in our own way. Mine is often helping programmers and folks who are not on social media and not content writers to better share the message about our work here. It's a huge honour to be part of this community. And lots of fun. 2019-04-14 10-56-34 PDT Michèle Thibeau Sure. I have been using Inkscape in my digital art practice for a couple of years and I was following them on Twitter - where I posted my work during a # YearOfCreating project. One day in March 2018, I think, I spotted a tweet one Saturday at noon that said Join the Vectors Team meeting - no need to be a programmer - or something of that sort. I clicked on the link and landed in a Jitsi chatroom in a meeting and introduced myself. Ryan was leading the meeting - he offered to get me onto GitLab if I sent him my email. That's how it all began. 2019-04-14 12-19-05 PDT Michèle Thibeau When I saw that I needed to write something else, at one point I shared that with a couple of other team members and we looked at what was needed and potential solutions. The content repo has enabled me to get things done, similar to a document filing system, but with a few limitations. That said. the versioning part, once I figured out how to do it, was an eye-opener and is really cool! I am seeking how to add this to my other work. The code tool that should be more incorporated into document management. 2019-07-06 19-21-06 PDT Michèle Thibeau Hey SrrReal, are you still with us? Hoping your article went well. Will we ever get to see how it turned out? Take good care. 2019-04-14 12-44-10 PDT Michèle Thibeau That would be terrific! I am sure we can use some of your insights to help improve the community and to perhaps share what's working and why - gain partners, sponsors, contributors... that's generous of you to want to share. Thank you! And thanks for taking an interest in Inkscape for your work!! 2019-04-14 12-37-49 PDT Michèle Thibeau I'm so glad to help you out, SrrReal! Oh, and here's the link to the Facebook group, in case you wish to see things here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/inkscape.org/ I recall one message where we wrote a post about seeking donations for a hackfest and shared some updates for the project. Someone read that and shared that they had donated. There were thanks and encouragement. Sometimes here we can see the impact of our collective actions. This drives me to act some more!! We're changing the world, our world, one action, one collaborative community at a time. 2019-04-14 11-10-34 PDT Michèle Thibeau Features, enabling me to create, also being cost effective. Being able to create and share work and being able to think about accomplishing your dreams is powerful! I am still learning the tool; however, we create for so many reasons - mostly because we have an innate need to do so. My dreams are in motion and being able to figure out the vector side of the equation has been a big step in my learning curve in surface pattern design. There are many emotions attached to this - being a fan - joy being one of them. 2019-04-14 11-38-29 PDT Michèle Thibeau Don't think that I am not bridging several worlds beyond Inkscape. I work with an organization where we use Microsoft platforms. I see myself as working with tools and able to work with many - lots of budget or no budget - to get things done. I am lucky enough to have insight from many different sides of the coin. 2019-04-14 12-32-33 PDT Michèle Thibeau Your work will help bring us visibility in a good way, too! 2019-04-14 11-06-37 PDT Michèle Thibeau I might have neglected to mention a lack of budget to use Photoshop for personal projects and entrepreneurial ones. 2019-04-14 12-17-02 PDT Michèle Thibeau You can see a bit of an evolution when you look back in past issues. Those having to do with writing seem to have been left unfinished... sometimes because, as I did in the beginning, people left themselves open to discussion on whether or not points of view were accurate. (One particular issue comes to mind here). Once we figure out that we can effect change - we can propose something or do something and send it out here, that's key. I spent a couple of articles making edits within an issue... we got it done. And then I said, not working for me. I also had an opportunity to have a couple of chats with the gals to share and learn how things worked among folks. This was helpful. Most helpful was me stepping up to collaborate and I started asking about timelines and letting folks know what we needed. Sometimes it happened fast. Other times slow - as people were able. If I could, at times I intervened - courageously - and tweeted my own stuff. Once I got out of my own way, I could better see how I could play a role. Others support you in this and this leads to action. I was encouraged to start my first issues later. First others started them and added my name - as they had asked if I was interested in writing an article. Then they encouraged me - or I had some ideas - and opened my own. Exciting steps each time! 2019-04-14 10-49-43 PDT Michèle Thibeau Hi SrrReal, sure! I'd be happy to chat with you about Inkscape. Let me know when you'd like to do this. I have some time now - it's afternoon here, but I am not sure what time it is where you are... 2019-04-14 11-43-17 PDT Michèle Thibeau I am still new here. This would be good to keep in mind! 2019-04-14 11-37-02 PDT Michèle Thibeau I think people sometimes are who they are here. Chat is tough to negotiate. Someone here told me that most folks have thick skins. I just finished watching SOLO, the movie, and it might not be a bad comparison (though one the community might not all agree with - as it's a big movie) Han Solo is a rebel, but he's really a good guy. Inkscapers are rebels and good people. We like to make choices about how or with whom we collaborate in the world. Hope that makes sense. 2019-04-14 12-00-51 PDT Michèle Thibeau Good question. Let me think of one example... 2019-04-14 11-14-08 PDT Michèle Thibeau First I watched and tried to read what I could in terms of what others were working on. Before that I kept (and still do sometimes) getting lost in the virtual corridors on here. 2019-04-14 12-23-40 PDT Michèle Thibeau Once we get started... 8-) 2019-04-14 10-59-37 PDT Michèle Thibeau I think it's been around for a couple of years... perhaps, yes! 2019-04-14 11-19-16 PDT Michèle Thibeau When I began we were still on the Jitsi platform with an email chat. Then I watched a debate - rather opinionated and frank - about inclusion using video and chat at the same time, which left two discussions going on and perhaps fewer action goals being set and actioned (my impression) in a cohesive manner. There was more discussion, perhaps less action. Then the meetings began to be held on the chat here (I might have missed some in the middle). One Vectors meeting there were very few of us on the channel - Ryan, Chris, Bryce and myself, I think. Perhaps others in the background lurking. That's when the action of announcing a new program, that got its start with Inkscape - and is part of the inner workings, needed to be tackled. I stepped in and said that I could write a news article. It was a steep learning curve to understand the subject; however, I did it! With lots of help from Bryce and Maren and Prkos - and Ryan. Then I was helped into the role of working on content. Once I piped up, I was offered other writing tasks and invited to participate more. https://inkscape.org/news/2018/11/11/graphics-math-library-2geoms-first-rele... 2019-04-14 12-22-00 PDT Michèle Thibeau The issues - the history is there, even in the closed ones. You can see the flow. I am sure that I am not accurately depicting how things have evolved. 2019-04-14 12-47-30 PDT Michèle Thibeau I'm going to edit the document as there were a couple of things to tweak. Then perhaps we'll let folks know it's been updated to see if there's any other feedback. I'll have to review what else was suggested by Mihaela about the lime instance. I've recently seen and answered several surveys at work using lime, so I think it's something to stick with and explore. Funny how that works. 2019-04-14 12-34-08 PDT Michèle Thibeau [ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/direct/SrrReal?msg=wGZi8j6mtmvwTyjzt) And some of those that have been abandoned, perhaps only for now, but for a number of months. This is also helpful insight into priorities or changing priorities or processes. () 2019-04-14 12-03-02 PDT Michèle Thibeau Working on getting my first writing up on the web site. This meant that I had to work on chat with Maren to figure out lots of stuff I didn't know (about stuff I didn't know). She was so patient and we both have a sense of humour, so we figured it out. Since then, she's worked, along with Mihaela, to help me learn how to do more stuff. Then they still help make sure things are good to go. That would be one example. ALSO! Bryce read my initial draft and I asked him questions and used his answers as quotes. This was essential as the subject matter was beyond my comprehension. It was a stretch goal... I called upon my skills as a journalist and my curiosity and my courage to get it done - thanks to the generosity and patience of the other team members. 2019-05-25 13-45-32 PDT Michèle Thibeau Hi SrrReal! Just wanted to see how you're doing and how things are going on your end. 2019-04-14 11-12-49 PDT Michèle Thibeau 8-) 2019-04-14 10-58-47 PDT Michèle Thibeau I can add that among the first people, some voices, I met and interacted with were Ryan, Brynn, prkos, Tim and Maren and Doctormo and Bryce... it took me a while to find my place as there was less structure and I was new to the open-source environment - not new to virtual teams, but used to much more structure. 2019-04-14 12-42-04 PDT Michèle Thibeau You're very welcome. It was my pleasure. I am eager to see your work - hopefully we'll be able to read your writing and learn lots! If you need any more help, just let me know. 2019-04-14 11-28-23 PDT Michèle Thibeau It's a give and take. It's a team and sometimes you have to understand what's going on above and beyond a simple aversion to using a spreadsheet. Now I'd just put together the spreadsheet, which I'll do when we get to more advanced campaigns. I've grown in understanding how to interact and contribute here. Lots more learning, I am sure. However, I understand lots more and know that my contributions advance things - because they are collaborations - parts of a bigger whole. 2019-04-14 12-39-42 PDT Michèle Thibeau and Tim!! 2019-04-14 12-21-35 PDT Michèle Thibeau Yes, which is terrific! I am so glad. 2019-04-14 11-22-03 PDT Michèle Thibeau This led to other missions, such as me trying to figure out how to better organize writing content and the process. Attempting to wrangle how to work in an open source environment is a good project. Attempting to introduce an open source doc - a spreadsheet - launched tons of discussion. I decided to see this as "a whole lotta love here" and said so. I embarked upon a learning curve to work on collaborating to create the content repo - and a system for Vectors and content - and am still working on collaborating and learning with each new day here. I love it! Being in the weeds and holding a global perspective, eager to work where I can. I began as a developer - and now have maintainer access for the content repo. Lately I've begun to help with posting tweets, and so I've been given access to that platform to help. An awesome responsibility. One - all of them - I take seriously. 2019-04-14 10-52-06 PDT Michèle Thibeau Sorry! Former journalist... sure! We can chat this way. 2019-04-14 12-32-13 PDT Michèle Thibeau Great question! I'd say that those of us here or who have interacted with team members would see these values. People who know team members within the community might as well. Not so sure that we've tried or have been able to communicate it broadly. I welcome your insight and your research into this team, project, to better understand the global view. Your perspective is important in the evolution of the team, also as a snapshot of how and how we got here. Users who have sought help and found it here or on social media (particularly FB) would have received support based on those values. Some have contributed either to the project financially or otherwise once learning more about it - that we're volunteers - or to thank the community for its support. Other than that, I am not sure we're visible. Maybe that's okay, too. Different people play different roles and this team is growing - which is good - and so the way we collaborate will have to grow and evolve too in order to continue to get things done. This might seem like a disconnected segue. I see it as people seeing the values here and choosing to stay or not because of them. I believe that others are seeking similar safe places to grow and contribute and feel like respectful beings on this planet. Hope that answers your question! 2019-04-14 11-31-13 PDT Michèle Thibeau It's important to give back. This is my way of serving Inkscape for all it has and continues to give to me. 2019-05-25 13-46-34 PDT Michèle Thibeau I hope you're well. Sometimes things take a bit longer than we'd like to get off the ground. Been busy on my end here, and so less active to get in there. Looking forward to catching up and to seeing if we can get the survey on the agenda for the next meeting. Have a great weekend! 2019-04-14 12-38-35 PDT Michèle Thibeau Jabiertxof 2019-04-14 11-42-52 PDT Michèle Thibeau I feel like I am on a weird roll... 8-) 2019-04-14 11-30-40 PDT Michèle Thibeau The idea is that we need some structures in place in order to advance coherently. In order to share the project and woo others to come and join. No one else will write articles within an issue. I am so done with that. Instead of rebelling, I politely explained that it was not pleasant... and so there was a genuine interest in developing something that worked. This is what I love about this team - this project. We're a bunch of problem solvers who speak so many languages, hold so many points of view on so many topics (I am sure), who come together to keep the lights on here and serve users and each other with such passion, patience and humour. 2019-04-14 12-20-01 PDT Michèle Thibeau Things change because someone has a challenge, sees a challenge or sees one coming down the pipe. There are all sorts of discussions, chats or other. Depending on who is involved, things move forward with different tools, speeds and stuff. 2019-04-14 12-22-32 PDT Michèle Thibeau The repo was meant for stuff other than code - docs, infographics, images, and such to do with promotion. 2019-04-14 11-12-47 PDT Michèle Thibeau Okay, math is not my strong point! But I can imagine?? 2019-04-14 11-26-34 PDT Michèle Thibeau Yes, I wanted to use a spreadsheet to collect information for a social media campaign... since folks here are less used to that - and so didn't have an understanding of why I would suggest that - they were immediately not in agreement. Then we looked at ways of adding a doc sharing piece on here... which turned into using the power of Gitlab, which I agreed to do vs. disturbing the Force. 8-) 2019-04-14 12-38-10 PDT Michèle Thibeau Prkos, Maren, doctormo, brynn, Chris, Ryan, Bryce... 2019-04-14 12-47-48 PDT Michèle Thibeau Okay, catch you a little later or during the week! 2019-04-14 12-46-06 PDT Michèle Thibeau I'll aim to look at your survey a little later this evening, my time. Meanwhile, I am going to have to head off for a bit to get other stuff done. I look forward to collaborating with you on many more issues / projects. Enjoy the rest of your day/evening! 2019-04-14 11-59-02 PDT Michèle Thibeau There's a good dose of patience, too. We're all volunteers, and so we have to learn how best to work with each other and be grateful for what the other can make or do in the time they have. And at the same time seek to demonstrate how best we can improve on our collaborations without offending each other, but keeping it real. 2019-04-14 11-57-42 PDT Michèle Thibeau Is it because we chat? Is it because we don't have in-dept personal relationships? I don't know. I know more about a few people on here. When people are nice to each other and help each other, there's a bond that's created. Friendship or kinship or respect to enable us all to achieve the goals of the project. I might be naive. Likely. I'll continue to use that to see the world I see and carry on helping here. It's not all rosey. It's just real(ity). 2019-04-14 11-47-38 PDT Michèle Thibeau That's honestly the heart and the hub of this community - the power of open source that stretches across the planet! 2019-04-14 11-22-28 PDT Michèle Thibeau Yes - this was my first article - collaboration - with Vectors and Inkscape, beyond retweeting stuff. 2019-04-14 12-08-03 PDT Michèle Thibeau Another would be when some of the team members were in Pasadena for the SCaLE conference and before that the hackfest. I had been following along from here, as I could not get there. We're working on getting more remote opportunities to collaborate, but we're not there yet. I noticed that we had not been able to get any social media together for this conference. I had started, there was a plan. When I spotted Bryce there and reached out, he went and collected some pics and I wrote some tweets and he said yep, and so I posted them through my account. They gained some traction and Ryan shared them via Inkscape's account. I did the same thing with the Bug Migration Game... trying to see opportunities to help and share. I feel like Chris is taking a bigger role in being active on FB (he's not on Twitter) with this game. He's even seen how the content repo has enabled the Vectors to get stuff done - articles published, social out the door. He's started to open issues, too, especially when it was impossible to get things done without it. Someone suggested that the issue path was working for us. It's a learning process. It's exciting to see and be part of change that's leading to success. I am sure there are other ones, too, but these ones come to mind now. 2019-04-14 11-00-18 PDT Michèle Thibeau I can probably find that info for you. 2019-04-14 11-34-18 PDT Michèle Thibeau Absolutely! I still think this is the real story that needs to be told about Inkscape... thinking of ways to do so.