Hi,
Do we have any plans re 0.49 and GSoC? Do we want releasing 0.49 before work on GSoC projects starts (in case we are accepted) which means end of May? If not, do we want releasing once a year which means 0.49 around August?
Would it make sense figuring out now where we are currently and what we could for 0.49?
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
Hi,
Definitely no plans. I don't foresee 0.49 releasing this year at the current rate.
For us to achieve the goals we've put forth we're dependent on new cairo and pixman releases to be available in released distros (doesn't look like it will be the Spring round) and I haven't seen much work in the way of getting rid of our internal copy of gdl, etc.
This dev cycle will be abnormally long and it's just something that people need to be okay with. I think we're just in the same place that the gimp devs are, lack of manpower makes the machine work slowly.
Cheers, Josh
On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine < alexandre.prokoudine@...400...> wrote:
Hi,
Do we have any plans re 0.49 and GSoC? Do we want releasing 0.49 before work on GSoC projects starts (in case we are accepted) which means end of May? If not, do we want releasing once a year which means 0.49 around August?
Would it make sense figuring out now where we are currently and what we could for 0.49?
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Hi,
Can I give my 2 cents? I use inkscape in production (as an enthusiastic amateur) and I really like it. And the developers are doing an incredible job. But that's right, I think also that Inkscape is in the same place as The Gimp. Why don't you ask for donations to pay developers for specific tasks, like for the gimp? 5$ would be enough. If 1 million (the statistics given yesterday) give 5 bucks, well... I'm joking, of course, but with just 10000 (1%) people... I can be the first, if you want.
But it's not for that I'm writing now. I'd like to give my wishes for the "0.49's plans": 1°) Improve the speed of the exporting/rendering tool, by using our huge CG :-) . I've just tried to export a 8000x5000 picture with many filters, it didn't take centuries... just decades ^^. 2°) therefore, improve the filter tool. I proposed a possible solution few months ago, that merges 'filter tool', 'path tools' 'color tool' and all tools that change the shape/color of lines/shapes, by using an interface like "games SDK materials tool". Today, we have too much tools for same purpose, basically. 3°) Anyway, improve actual filter tool is really needed. We can do many things with it that can improve the picture (less vectorial -> more bitmap), but many things are lacking or buggy. No offense ^^. 4°) Improve perspective-like tools. They are are buggy and not very effective. By the way, today 2 grids are available: rectangular grid and axonometric grid. Why not perspective grid? You specify the type (one-point, two-points, etc) and points like vanishing point, and the grid appears. Plus, if you hang your nodes to the grid, and you change the points of the grid, the picture is automatically updated. Maybe I'm dreaming, but for sets it would be great. 5°) Script language, to allow people making their own tools, without touching the code (like The Gimp). For example I thought this week about an improvement: When I draw a car with many filters effects to fake raytracing, the effects are drooling outside the general shape. So I have to duplicate the car -> delete the filters -> unite shapes -> group the first car -> object, cut. All these operations could be done by script.
Cheers, Teto.
Le 05/03/2011 21:01, Josh Andler a écrit :
Hi,
Definitely no plans. I don't foresee 0.49 releasing this year at the current rate.
For us to achieve the goals we've put forth we're dependent on new cairo and pixman releases to be available in released distros (doesn't look like it will be the Spring round) and I haven't seen much work in the way of getting rid of our internal copy of gdl, etc.
This dev cycle will be abnormally long and it's just something that people need to be okay with. I think we're just in the same place that the gimp devs are, lack of manpower makes the machine work slowly.
Cheers, Josh
On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@...400... mailto:alexandre.prokoudine@...400...> wrote:
Hi, Do we have any plans re 0.49 and GSoC? Do we want releasing 0.49 before work on GSoC projects starts (in case we are accepted) which means end of May? If not, do we want releasing once a year which means 0.49 around August? Would it make sense figuring out now where we are currently and what we could for 0.49? Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Thanks for the feedback. I am looking to build such a functionality actually into phase 2 or 3 of the website. It'll essentially be a "feature request app" where people throw in money to complete it. Essentially it would be a bounty and the developers assign "values" to each bounty that is suggested. so let's say Improve the speed of the exporting/rendering tool, by using our huge CG :-) . I've just tried to export a 8000x5000 picture with many filters, it didn't take centuries... just decades ^^. may be a $1000 or $1500 bounty (just throwing out random numbers) and the community throws in money for such a functionality. Also the idea may come up that for however much money you throw in you "buy" votes" for various features so let's say it's $5 a vote and once a bounty reaches X amount of votes it'll be worked on. It should help with more of the difficult features that haven't been implemented or worked on due to time constraints. thanks, Ian
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:36 AM, Teto <teto45@...2519...> wrote:
Hi,
Can I give my 2 cents? I use inkscape in production (as an enthusiastic amateur) and I really like it. And the developers are doing an incredible job. But that's right, I think also that Inkscape is in the same place as The Gimp. Why don't you ask for donations to pay developers for specific tasks, like for the gimp? 5$ would be enough. If 1 million (the statistics given yesterday) give 5 bucks, well... I'm joking, of course, but with just 10000 (1%) people... I can be the first, if you want.
But it's not for that I'm writing now. I'd like to give my wishes for the "0.49's plans": 1°) Improve the speed of the exporting/rendering tool, by using our huge CG :-) . I've just tried to export a 8000x5000 picture with many filters, it didn't take centuries... just decades ^^. 2°) therefore, improve the filter tool. I proposed a possible solution few months ago, that merges 'filter tool', 'path tools' 'color tool' and all tools that change the shape/color of lines/shapes, by using an interface like "games SDK materials tool". Today, we have too much tools for same purpose, basically. 3°) Anyway, improve actual filter tool is really needed. We can do many things with it that can improve the picture (less vectorial -> more bitmap), but many things are lacking or buggy. No offense ^^. 4°) Improve perspective-like tools. They are are buggy and not very effective. By the way, today 2 grids are available: rectangular grid and axonometric grid. Why not perspective grid? You specify the type (one-point, two-points, etc) and points like vanishing point, and the grid appears. Plus, if you hang your nodes to the grid, and you change the points of the grid, the picture is automatically updated. Maybe I'm dreaming, but for sets it would be great. 5°) Script language, to allow people making their own tools, without touching the code (like The Gimp). For example I thought this week about an improvement: When I draw a car with many filters effects to fake raytracing, the effects are drooling outside the general shape. So I have to duplicate the car -> delete the filters -> unite shapes -> group the first car -> object, cut. All these operations could be done by script.
Cheers, Teto.
Le 05/03/2011 21:01, Josh Andler a écrit :
Hi,
Definitely no plans. I don't foresee 0.49 releasing this year at the current rate.
For us to achieve the goals we've put forth we're dependent on new cairo and pixman releases to be available in released distros (doesn't look like it will be the Spring round) and I haven't seen much work in the way of getting rid of our internal copy of gdl, etc.
This dev cycle will be abnormally long and it's just something that people need to be okay with. I think we're just in the same place that the gimp devs are, lack of manpower makes the machine work slowly.
Cheers, Josh
On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine < alexandre.prokoudine@...400...> wrote:
Hi,
Do we have any plans re 0.49 and GSoC? Do we want releasing 0.49 before work on GSoC projects starts (in case we are accepted) which means end of May? If not, do we want releasing once a year which means 0.49 around August?
Would it make sense figuring out now where we are currently and what we could for 0.49?
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
On 3/13/11, Ian Caldwell wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. I am looking to build such a functionality actually into phase 2 or 3 of the website. It'll essentially be a "feature request app" where people throw in money to complete it. Essentially it would be a bounty and the developers assign "values" to each bounty that is suggested. so let's say Improve the speed of the exporting/rendering tool, by using our huge CG :-)
Bounties didn't work for GNOME. Bounties didn't work for GIMP. Bounties don't quite work for Ardour. Why do you expect them to work for Inkscape? :)
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
Excuse-me. Can you explain in few words why it didn't work for other programs? I'm interested.
Teto.
Le 13/03/2011 05:10, Alexandre Prokoudine a écrit :
On 3/13/11, Ian Caldwell wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. I am looking to build such a functionality actually into phase 2 or 3 of the website. It'll essentially be a "feature request app" where people throw in money to complete it. Essentially it would be a bounty and the developers assign "values" to each bounty that is suggested. so let's say Improve the speed of the exporting/rendering tool, by using our huge CG :-)
Bounties didn't work for GNOME. Bounties didn't work for GIMP. Bounties don't quite work for Ardour. Why do you expect them to work for Inkscape? :)
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
Colocation vs. Managed Hosting A question and answer guide to determining the best fit for your organization - today and in the future. http://p.sf.net/sfu/internap-sfd2d _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
On 3/13/11, Teto wrote:
I agree, except that this money could be used by extra-programmers (means not the usual ones) hired just for a particular task.
Except Inkscape committee is dead against paid development.
Excuse-me. Can you explain in few words why it didn't work for other programs? I'm interested.
Coincidentally I had to reply this question not so long ago to a completely different person, so I'll just copypaste, OK?
--- snip ---
In a software project you have different tasks that demand from little to a lot of time. When you are paid to do something, you start treating this as a fulltime job with all the consequences like estimating time spent for this or that work. Which is why bounties work only for small tasks, because they don't take much time to work on. However there usually is a huge amount of small tasks in a big project, and user base is rarely ready to tolerate every single one. So the choice is often between being on your tod with your bounty and wait till it's implemented or spending same money on proprietary software that already has this feature.
Why it doesn't work for bigger tasks? Because bigger tasks take heaps of time to work on. The bounty of 50K USD to finish GEGL (a new GIMP engine) in 2005 or so was never done, because the person who agreed to do the work simply got burnt out and left.
And now with numbers. Have a look at Ardour's bug tracker:
http://tracker.ardour.org/view_all_set.php?sort=sponsorship_total&dir=AS...
Implementing MIDI tracks is definitely not $1145 worth. It's at least 100 times that much. It actually took two Google Summer of Code projects (2006 and 2007) and heaps of work beyond that (2008, 2009, 2010 and onwards).
The next task in that table is AAF / OMF support that surely isn't US$ 455 worth and looks more like at the very least 5K worth.
The next thing that is already implemented is VSTi (virtual instruments) support. Can you imagine $130 being a fair price for that job?
Even when you go down to much smaller projects like e.g. http://tracker.ardour.org/view.php?id=2662, you cannot possibly imagine a skilled programmer working for ten bucks an hour. He'd earn that much working in McDonalds. And actually that particular task demanded redoing quite a bit of stuff in VST support code, so it's not even ten bucks an hour, more like two.
In short, it doesn't and cannot work directly. I'll be truly amazed if it will.
Now, I know of one project that succeeded being a bounty. Earlier this year Tavmjong Bah improved text tool in Inkscape. The project was $1.5K worth, it was a more or less fair price for the project given that it wasn't full time and the programmer in question was not a professional programmer. But simply finding that money was a huge problem. A completely different person was supposed to do the project, but after months of waiting he simply got tired and moved on, so it took a whole new massive PR force to actually get the money from the community and even so a lot of it was given by a single donator. And we had to find a new programmer to work in this, of course.
--- snip ---
Hopefully it answers your question.
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
On 3/13/11, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Hopefully it answers your question.
BTW, there have been two new paid developments since I wrote that. However both are not bounties, but rather what Tav's project was.
1. Ocean Simulator for Blender. Part-time job, successful. 2. Rewriting Blender's compositor. Full-time job, in works, and finanically it's only 2/5 there.
Note that Blender is very different from Inkscape in terms of how much money you as a user make on a project involving Inkscape and a project involving Blender.
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
On Sun, 2011-03-13 at 22:29 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Note that Blender is very different from Inkscape in terms of how much money you as a user make on a project involving Inkscape and a project involving Blender.
Money is interesting, so is opportunity.
I don't think putting a donate button on the website will do much as it doesn't offer much of an opportunity, nor does it set an expectation of _every_ user to invest in the project's future.
The Inkscape board can decide if raising that expectation is counter to the project's culture or stated aim.
If user's pay you to do something, then you must do that thing. If the job required a whole bunch of background work, then you do that too and make sure to price it in. If the user's can't meet the price then the work can't be done.
If programmer can't properly price their work, then that's an issue of understanding what they have to do. Having a special generic fund for special people who do research and write proposals and little else, works in other organisational fields.
Hopefully Inkscape will be signing up for the new Ubuntu Software Center donations work. It's basically going to be very rough and ready for a few cycles, but the hope is that it paves the way for programs delivered through Ubuntu to be paid for, and I'd rather have Free Software paid for than having all the money from our users going to proprietary software.
Which is just what we encourage at the moment.
Regards, Martin Owens
On 3/14/11, Martin Owens wrote:
On Sun, 2011-03-13 at 22:29 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Note that Blender is very different from Inkscape in terms of how much money you as a user make on a project involving Inkscape and a project involving Blender.
Money is interesting, so is opportunity.
I don't think putting a donate button on the website will do much as it doesn't offer much of an opportunity, nor does it set an expectation of _every_ user to invest in the project's future.
The Inkscape board can decide if raising that expectation is counter to the project's culture or stated aim.
You lost me there :) Opportunity? Expectations? Huh?
If user's pay you to do something, then you must do that thing.
Really? If a user says "Here is my 20 bucks, now you clone AI's user interface", must I still do it? Exactly why? :)
job required a whole bunch of background work, then you do that too and make sure to price it in. If the user's can't meet the price then the work can't be done.
If programmer can't properly price their work, then that's an issue of understanding what they have to do. Having a special generic fund for special people who do research and write proposals and little else, works in other organisational fields.
I'm afraid you are missing what I previously wrote: the committee is *dead* against paid development. Now, *I* am all in favour of it, but I don't make decisions.
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
On Mon, 2011-03-14 at 01:30 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
The Inkscape board can decide if raising that expectation is counter
to
the project's culture or stated aim.
You lost me there :) Opportunity? Expectations? Huh?
Expectations are critical to getting money from users in order to maintain development. The first one is separating out donations from other payments, as the first carries little expectation on the part of the developer and users are not expected to donate. Low expectations and it's no surprise donations pull in low amounts of money.
Every time Inkscape is distributed directly to users, the inkscape community/board should consider what opportunity there is to ask for either donations or other involvement/payments. When inkscape is downloaded from the debian archive or installed from the Ubuntu Software Center. At the moment users don't even know it's possible to donate.
Let alone that giving back to Inkscape might be considered good manners and be somewhat expected.
If user's pay you to do something, then you must do that thing.
Really? If a user says "Here is my 20 bucks, now you clone AI's user interface", must I still do it? Exactly why? :)
Why indeed would you take that $20? transactions are based not just on the customer's choice to buy, but the tradesman's willingness to sell. If the user isn't giving you enough money, then calmly explain how much you think it would cost, perhaps inviting the user to start a kickstarter or some such to group fund the feature.
I'm afraid you are missing what I previously wrote: the committee is *dead* against paid development. Now, *I* am all in favour of it, but I don't make decisions.
That's something the Inkscape board probably have to resolve for themselves. For my brain it's easy to resolve because I consider all code already written as already paid for, therefor no one who has written anything already is due any money that comes in afterwards. If there is a case for money to be spent on getting a _new_ person to come in and do a project, or perhaps a small Inkscape summer of code project, that sort of thing is easier to digest than full blown employment of select historical Inkscape developers.
Regards, Martin Owens
On 3/15/11, Martin Owens wrote:
Every time Inkscape is distributed directly to users, the inkscape community/board should consider what opportunity there is to ask for either donations or other involvement/payments.
In my experience telling the committee what they should do doesn't work and probably isn't good manners either :) (Hence... :))
At the moment users don't even know it's possible to donate.
Oh, come now, not everyone ignores "Donate" menu item :)
If the user isn't giving you enough money, then calmly explain how much you think it would cost, perhaps inviting the user to start a kickstarter or some such to group fund the feature.
You are suggesting to delegate organization of a kickstarter to a user who wants to just give some money and get a feature or a fix in return. It won't work.
I'm afraid you are missing what I previously wrote: the committee is *dead* against paid development. Now, *I* am all in favour of it, but I don't make decisions.
That's something the Inkscape board probably have to resolve for themselves.
s/probably/for sure/
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 00:23 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
In my experience telling the committee what they should do doesn't work and probably isn't good manners either :) (Hence... :))
Good job I didn't do that then.
Oh, come now, not everyone ignores "Donate" menu item :)
We could do a poll of inkscape users who don't know about free and open source to find out.
You are suggesting to delegate organization of a kickstarter to a user who wants to just give some money and get a feature or a fix in return. It won't work.
If it won't, then it won't. It's a fair point; conjecture but not proven. It's obvious the feature isn't _very_ important to them if they're not willing to spend 10 years learning c++, spend the large sums of money or spend a small amount of time fund raising[1]. I admit not everyone will be in a position to do any of those things, but at least it's better than the current and only model which requires non-programming users to not get features unless they're good friends with the developers first and know how to ask very nicely.
Even though as a developer I might like that.
money isn't just about getting developer's paid, it's also about empowering non-technical users. Sometimes I think we forget that.
Martin,
[1]. I am being flippant, factor that into the reading of this email.
On Mar 13, 2011, at 2:52 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
Hopefully Inkscape will be signing up for the new Ubuntu Software Center donations work. It's basically going to be very rough and ready for a few cycles, but the hope is that it paves the way for programs delivered through Ubuntu to be paid for, and I'd rather have Free Software paid for than having all the money from our users going to proprietary software.
Given their recent stumbles with Banshee and a few other items., I'm currently extremely wary of Canonical and their money push. We *especially* would need to see something firm on their terms, etc.
I'm not saying it's a bad situation, etc., but there is a definite track record developing where upstream projects either get a lesser deal, or have things arbitrarily imposed. It might be nice if things work out well, but I'd put my money on them definitely needing a few cycles to get things reasonable for upstreams. Canonical does some good work in other ways, so don't get me wrong about that. My guess would be that they're focusing first on getting as stable as a company as they can, and then later will be free to look a bit more at upstream projects.
But I think the bottom line here is that even if Canonical did a good job promoting donations and passing them on upstream, the numbers of contributors and amounts coming in have a good chance of taking a while to become significant.
That is very interesting - I didn't realize the Inkscape committee was against paid development.
I'm working on the donations page design right now - what should I put on it? Seeing as the "bounty" idea appears to be inappropriate... Would a list of sponsors and individual donors/supporters be acceptable, or best avoided too? Would it be useful to have some kind of graphical representation of how much the project receives (this might be more useful for targets), and how the donations are used?
Are financial contributions even important, and does the development team want donations? If so, please tell me how you would like to use them. I did see on the current website that it's mostly used to help cover the costs of getting developers together at conferences - do you guys ever get together informally too? Do you ever spend donations on hardware for development?
Or do the developers have Amazon wishlists or equivalents? I'm sure I'm not the only person who would happily buy an Inkscape developer a beer! (Not that you can buy those on Amazon.) I would love to encourage other users to show their appreciation somehow (some people don't have time for support, translations, testing, etc).
Cheers, Hinerangi Courtenay
On Mar 13, 2011, at 8:19 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On 3/13/11, Teto wrote:
I agree, except that this money could be used by extra-programmers (means not the usual ones) hired just for a particular task.
Except Inkscape committee is dead against paid development.
On 3/14/11, Hinerangi Courtenay wrote:
That is very interesting - I didn't realize the Inkscape committee was against paid development.
I'm working on the donations page design right now - what should I put on it? Seeing as the "bounty" idea appears to be inappropriate... Would a list of sponsors and individual donors/supporters be acceptable, or best avoided too? Would it be useful to have some kind of graphical representation of how much the project receives (this might be more useful for targets), and how the donations are used?
Are financial contributions even important, and does the development team want donations? If so, please tell me how you would like to use them.
Last time I discussed it with the committee (about a month ago), the committee's idea was to use the donations for organizing hackfests. So the existing Software Freedom Conservancy info from http://inkscape.org/donate.php should stay unless the committee changed their mind.
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
Thanks for the info. Also, is google checkout the only online gateway or can you receive donations via paypal too? (The SFC website uses both, so do some of their other member projects.)
Cheers, Hinerangi Courtenay
On Mar 14, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Last time I discussed it with the committee (about a month ago), the committee's idea was to use the donations for organizing hackfests. So the existing Software Freedom Conservancy info from http://inkscape.org/donate.php should stay unless the committee changed their mind.
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
Donations are definitely accepted. In addition to hackfests the donations are used to help get developers to various conferences as well. Also, the board is against inkscape paying for projects. Things that are organized outside of the project proper (such as the text tool work that was done via linuxfund or GSoC) are not opposed by the board, just having the project pay for them is what is opposed.
Cheers, Josh
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 7:01 AM, Hinerangi Courtenay <duckgoesoink@...400...
wrote:
Thanks for the info. Also, is google checkout the only online gateway or can you receive donations via paypal too? (The SFC website uses both, so do some of their other member projects.)
Cheers, Hinerangi Courtenay
On Mar 14, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Last time I discussed it with the committee (about a month ago), the committee's idea was to use the donations for organizing hackfests. So the existing Software Freedom Conservancy info from http://inkscape.org/donate.php should stay unless the committee changed their mind.
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
Colocation vs. Managed Hosting A question and answer guide to determining the best fit for your organization - today and in the future. http://p.sf.net/sfu/internap-sfd2d _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
therefore money paid towards to complete various "projects" are not opposed then?
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 7:33 AM, Josh Andler <scislac@...400...> wrote:
Donations are definitely accepted. In addition to hackfests the donations are used to help get developers to various conferences as well. Also, the board is against inkscape paying for projects. Things that are organized outside of the project proper (such as the text tool work that was done via linuxfund or GSoC) are not opposed by the board, just having the project pay for them is what is opposed.
Cheers, Josh
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 7:01 AM, Hinerangi Courtenay < duckgoesoink@...400...> wrote:
Thanks for the info. Also, is google checkout the only online gateway or can you receive donations via paypal too? (The SFC website uses both, so do some of their other member projects.)
Cheers, Hinerangi Courtenay
On Mar 14, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Last time I discussed it with the committee (about a month ago), the committee's idea was to use the donations for organizing hackfests. So the existing Software Freedom Conservancy info from http://inkscape.org/donate.php should stay unless the committee changed their mind.
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
Colocation vs. Managed Hosting A question and answer guide to determining the best fit for your organization - today and in the future. http://p.sf.net/sfu/internap-sfd2d _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Colocation vs. Managed Hosting A question and answer guide to determining the best fit for your organization - today and in the future. http://p.sf.net/sfu/internap-sfd2d _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Correct. The gist of it is that with the LinuxFund work, the agreement was with the developer and LinuxFund. Any users that wanted to contribute towards that feature, donated via LinuxFund. The Inkscape project was not involved in any official way. However, our developers did give input stating what we thought the scope of work should be.
Cheers, Josh
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 7:48 AM, Ian Caldwell <inchosting@...400...> wrote:
therefore money paid towards to complete various "projects" are not opposed then?
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 7:33 AM, Josh Andler <scislac@...400...> wrote:
Donations are definitely accepted. In addition to hackfests the donations are used to help get developers to various conferences as well. Also, the board is against inkscape paying for projects. Things that are organized outside of the project proper (such as the text tool work that was done via linuxfund or GSoC) are not opposed by the board, just having the project pay for them is what is opposed.
Cheers, Josh
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 7:01 AM, Hinerangi Courtenay < duckgoesoink@...400...> wrote:
Thanks for the info. Also, is google checkout the only online gateway or can you receive donations via paypal too? (The SFC website uses both, so do some of their other member projects.)
Cheers, Hinerangi Courtenay
On Mar 14, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Last time I discussed it with the committee (about a month ago), the committee's idea was to use the donations for organizing hackfests. So the existing Software Freedom Conservancy info from http://inkscape.org/donate.php should stay unless the committee changed their mind.
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
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On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 19:59:57 -0800 Ian Caldwell <inchosting@...400...> wrote:
you "buy" votes"
How does buying votes differ from just voting? Buy buying votes, voting becomes a special privilege (unless you can cast votes w/o paying and the two votes are differentiated and displayed separately, e.g: 10 "paid" up votes, 36 up votes, 17 down votes.) Perhaps there is some other privilege that can be sold?
Don't you have to worry about the users/voters voting for things that aren't beneficial to the project or ignoring more important things? In such a situation, would it be acceptable for the developers to ignore (at least temporarily) the user elected features to instead work on something else?
It is just a small step from buying votes to paying for features. Small enough that I'd worry about an user feeling that since they paid, the development team is now obligated to deliver (implicit contract).
Would money made from votes go to the feature on which the votes were cast or just go into the general fund? If they're not actually being used for the particular features then maybe they shouldn't be linked to them.
Unless you're using the buying votes to keep people from spamming the system or something. I assumed that the goal was fundraising.
Just my personal opinion.
Matthew Todd
I agree, except that this money could be used by extra-programmers (means not the usual ones) hired just for a particular task. No pressure for the 'normal' team, just on special team. They fail? They aren't paid. They win? few money and a good line on their resumé, and a great new feature for Inkscape.
Anyway. It doesn't work, apparently.
Teto.
Le 13/03/2011 11:40, Matthew Todd a écrit :
On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 19:59:57 -0800 Ian Caldwell<inchosting@...400...> wrote:
you "buy" votes"
How does buying votes differ from just voting? Buy buying votes, voting becomes a special privilege (unless you can cast votes w/o paying and the two votes are differentiated and displayed separately, e.g: 10 "paid" up votes, 36 up votes, 17 down votes.) Perhaps there is some other privilege that can be sold?
Don't you have to worry about the users/voters voting for things that aren't beneficial to the project or ignoring more important things? In such a situation, would it be acceptable for the developers to ignore (at least temporarily) the user elected features to instead work on something else?
It is just a small step from buying votes to paying for features. Small enough that I'd worry about an user feeling that since they paid, the development team is now obligated to deliver (implicit contract).
Would money made from votes go to the feature on which the votes were cast or just go into the general fund? If they're not actually being used for the particular features then maybe they shouldn't be linked to them.
Unless you're using the buying votes to keep people from spamming the system or something. I assumed that the goal was fundraising.
Just my personal opinion.
Matthew Todd
Colocation vs. Managed Hosting A question and answer guide to determining the best fit for your organization - today and in the future. http://p.sf.net/sfu/internap-sfd2d _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
participants (8)
-
Alexandre Prokoudine -
Hinerangi Courtenay -
Ian Caldwell -
Jon Cruz -
Josh Andler -
Martin Owens -
Matthew Todd -
Teto