pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Hi Friends, Someone has recently posted on a forum, asking for a tool which combines pressure sensitivity of Calligraphy, freehand, powerstroke, and simplify, all in one tool. I explained we have something pretty close to that with Pencil, Triangle In/Out, with Simplify option.
But it made me start to wonder. The Calligraphy tool must have been chosen for pressure sensitivity, at least in part because it can achieve variable width. Well now that we have powerstroke, I wonder if it would it be possible to give pressure sensitivity to the Pencil tool, using powerstroke?
Probably a wild thought. But can't hurt to ask. Just asking if that, or something like it would be possible.
Thanks, brynn
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Sun, 2017-08-20 at 21:39 -0600, brynn wrote:
Hi Friends, Someone has recently posted on a forum, asking for a tool which combines pressure sensitivity of Calligraphy, freehand, powerstroke, and simplify, all in one tool. I explained we have something pretty close to that with Pencil, Triangle In/Out, with Simplify option.
But it made me start to wonder. The Calligraphy tool must have been chosen for pressure sensitivity, at least in part because it can achieve variable width. Well now that we have powerstroke, I wonder if it would it be possible to give pressure sensitivity to the Pencil tool, using powerstroke?
Probably a wild thought. But can't hurt to ask. Just asking if that, or something like it would be possible.
Thanks, brynn
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say if the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would the variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the number of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say if the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would the variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the number of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking if the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature so here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the coolest features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I have been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it would not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a 100% representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing feature, maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase or decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the width of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be increases or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the brush size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation to accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
[image: Inline image 4] https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and more. Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard work you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot of work and new features are no small thing. I am not really a programmer so I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a need or desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw: [image: Inline image 3]
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say if the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would the variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the number of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Nate, we probably can use a(nother) UX designer! I'm sure they will chime in. Or else, if you see messages with UX in the title, you can join in. I think there might be a section in the wiki for UX?? I tried to find it, but only found years old pages, but here's the wiki: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Inkscape.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Nate Yungkans Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 8:36 PM To: jabier.arraiza@...2893... Cc: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking if the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature so here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the coolest features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I have been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it would not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a 100% representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing feature, maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase or decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the width of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be increases or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the brush size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation to accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and more. Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard work you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot of work and new features are no small thing. I am not really a programmer so I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a need or desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote: I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say if the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would the variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the number of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Hi Nate.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking if the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature so here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the coolest features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I have been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be redrawn.
Apply Mass is a problem but pressure not too much
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it would not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a 100% representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I agree and try to do
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing feature, maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Great idea
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase or decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the width of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be increases or decreased.
Great and easy to do
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
See you soon
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3313... r.es> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable
width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say
if
the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would
the
variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the
number
of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil
tool
using powerstroke?
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking if the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature so here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the coolest features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I have been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it would not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a 100% representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing feature, maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase or decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the width of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be increases or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: https://yo utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the brush size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation to accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and more. Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard work you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot of work and new features are no small thing. I am not really a programmer so I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a need or desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3313... r.es> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable
width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say
if
the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would
the
variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the
number
of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil
tool
using powerstroke?
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines ! ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3048......> a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking if the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature so here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the coolest features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I have been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it would not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a 100% representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing feature, maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase or decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the width of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be increases or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: https://yo utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the brush size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation to accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and more. Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard work you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot of work and new features are no small thing. I am not really a programmer so I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a need or desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3313... r.es> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable
width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say
if
the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would
the
variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the
number
of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil
tool
using powerstroke?
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Thanks for the feedback!!! Expression is still more powerful in a lot of areas, here again with skeletal strokes. Maybe in the future...
Great to hear you again, Jabier.
On Sun, 2017-08-27 at 22:38 +0000, Ivan Louette wrote:
Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2927....> a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking
if
the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature
so
here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the
coolest
features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I
have
been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be redrawn. The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it
would
not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a
100%
representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying. I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing
feature,
maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate? Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase
or
decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the
width
of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be
increases
or decreased. Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34 Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: https://
yo
utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144 That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the
brush
size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation to accomplish this effect in Inkscape. https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97%C2%A0 I think that covers what I was originally asking about and more. Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard work you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot of
work
and new features are no small thing. I am not really a programmer
so
I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a need
or
desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help! Manga line example that I did not draw: If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate -- Nate On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3286......
ke
r.es> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply. Cheers, Jabier. On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable
width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more
complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't
say
if
the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person
who
posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure
is
greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or
would
the
variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the
number
of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with
Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he
can
discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil
tool
using powerstroke?
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot__________ _____________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote: Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...>mailto:jabier.arraiza@...2893... a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking if the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature so here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the coolest features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I have been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it would not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a 100% representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing feature, maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase or decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the width of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be increases or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: https://yohttps://yo/ utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the brush size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation to accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97 https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97%C2%A0
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and more. Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard work you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot of work and new features are no small thing. I am not really a programmer so I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a need or desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3597....mailto:jabier.arraiza@...3313... r.es> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable
width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say
if
the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would
the
variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the
number
of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil
tool
using powerstroke?
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.netmailto:Inkscape-devel@...1722...forge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.netmailto:Inkscape-devel@...2164...e.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.netmailto:Inkscape-devel@...2164...e.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Hi Miguel:
¿Real join or as combined elements in one (not a group)?
I could do in the future once know it, for example pressing the Shift key while drawing.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 02:12 +0000, Miguel Lopez wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote: Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2927....> mailto:jabier.arraiza@...2893... a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking if the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature so here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the coolest features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I have been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it would not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a 100% representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing feature, maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase or decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the width of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be increases or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: https:// yohttps://yo/; utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the brush size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation to accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97 https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97%C2%A0
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and more. Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard work you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot of work and new features are no small thing. I am not really a programmer so I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a need or desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3286...... kemailto:jabier.arraiza@...3313... r.es> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable
width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say
if
the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would
the
variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the
number
of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil
tool
using powerstroke?
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.netmailto:Inkscape-devel@...1784... sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot__________ _____________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.netmailto:Inkscape-devel@...1240... ceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.netmailto:Inkscape-devel@...1240... ceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Why not both? Like if you were to make multiple strokes intersecting, it will automatically join if you enable it. If you were to make one stroke that intersect by itself, it will combine into 1 just like the spray tool with the join. This probably a bit too much, but it will be great if you can do this at some point. One step closer to going pro.
On 8/28/2017 3:51 AM, Jabier Arraiza wrote:
Hi Miguel:
¿Real join or as combined elements in one (not a group)?
I could do in the future once know it, for example pressing the Shift key while drawing.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 02:12 +0000, Miguel Lopez wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote: Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> mailto:jabier.arraiza@...2893... a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking if the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature so here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the coolest features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I have been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it would not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a 100% representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing feature, maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase or decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the width of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be increases or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: https:// yohttps://yo/; utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the brush size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation to accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97 https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97%C2%A0
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and more. Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard work you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot of work and new features are no small thing. I am not really a programmer so I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a need or desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3285... kemailto:jabier.arraiza@...3313... r.es> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable
width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say
if
the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would
the
variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the
number
of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil
tool
using powerstroke?
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.netmailto:Inkscape-devel@...1784... sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot__________ _____________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.netmailto:Inkscape-devel@...1240... ceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.netmailto:Inkscape-devel@...1240... ceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Hi Miguel, because the nature of powerstroke that make overlaps on closed angled curves, combining this kind of paths dont result so beatifull but confussing.
Because there is no control where the self-intersections hapends I think is better simplify and do a union as bolean operation when SHIFT is pressed.
Also I do another change to the code to add the freehand as a option compatible also with bezier, bspline or spiro.
Sorry for the noise, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 16:33 +0000, Miguel Lopez wrote:
Why not both? Like if you were to make multiple strokes intersecting, it will automatically join if you enable it. If you were to make one stroke that intersect by itself, it will combine into 1 just like the spray tool with the join. This probably a bit too much, but it will be great if you can do this at some point. One step closer to going pro.
On 8/28/2017 3:51 AM, Jabier Arraiza wrote:
Hi Miguel:
¿Real join or as combined elements in one (not a group)?
I could do in the future once know it, for example pressing the Shift key while drawing.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 02:12 +0000, Miguel Lopez wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote: Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3365...94... .es> mailto:jabier.arraiza@...2893... a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking if the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature so here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the coolest features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I have been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it would not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a 100% representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing feature, maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase or decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the width of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be increases or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: https:// yohttps://yo/; utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the brush size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation to accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97 https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97%C2%A0
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and more. Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard work you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot of work and new features are no small thing. I am not really a programmer so I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a need or desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza @mar kemailto:jabier.arraiza@...3313... r.es> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
> Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable
width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say
if
the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would
the
variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the
number
of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil
tool
using powerstroke?
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Also I do another change to the code to add the freehand as a option
compatible also with bezier, bspline or spiro.
Fabulous!!!
Jabier, you are a genuine treasure! (I hope that translates ok.)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 11:00 AM To: Miguel Lopez ; inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
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And you like contents!
All the best, Jabier.
On Thu, 2017-08-31 at 03:29 -0600, brynn wrote:
Also I do another change to the code to add the freehand as a option
compatible also with bezier, bspline or spiro.
Fabulous!!!
Jabier, you are a genuine treasure! (I hope that translates ok.)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 11:00 AM To: Miguel Lopez ; inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
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On 28 August 2017 at 12:33, Miguel Lopez <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
Why not both? Like if you were to make multiple strokes intersecting, it will automatically join if you enable it. If you were to make one stroke that intersect by itself, it will combine into 1 just like the spray tool with the join. This probably a bit too much, but it will be great if you can do this at some point. One step closer to going pro.
I love this feature very much. But we should not use pro (professional) as a term here, because Jabier is volunteering which is is literally the opposite of professional. I know you mean that inkscape is one step closer to being capable of being used by people earning money from their art/design and we certainly want people to be able to earn money from using (and developing) Free and Open source... but maybe open source doesn't really fit the whole 'pro' advertising meme. (also Inkscape is being used by professionals already, and lots of different types which is why it's hard to nail down the industry/user-base)
Inkscape Any - as in, Inkscape for Anyone. ;)
Best Regards, Martin Owens
Professional generally mean "made by professionals". It is not *proprietary* software, but it is professional software imho.
Professional is also a term that is used for software that can be used professionally. Inkscape definitely fits the bill here too.
Now say this to people: "Inkscape is not professional software."
Most people will not only not understand what is meant by that, they will one or several of the following:
1. Inkscape is not made by professional developers 2. Inkscape is not suitable for professional work 3. Inkscape can not, or should not be used by professionals
Am i missing something? I don't know what problems we are trying to solve by saying Inkscape is not professional software. Jabier's work is definitely professional quality/grade. I use his stuff all the time and can vouch for the quality.
-C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Martin Owens <doctormo@...400...> wrote:
On 28 August 2017 at 12:33, Miguel Lopez <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
Why not both? Like if you were to make multiple strokes intersecting, it will automatically join if you enable it. If you were to make one stroke that intersect by itself, it will combine into 1 just like the spray tool with the join. This probably a bit too much, but it will be great if you can do this at some point. One step closer to going pro.
I love this feature very much. But we should not use pro (professional) as a term here, because Jabier is volunteering which is is literally the opposite of professional. I know you mean that inkscape is one step closer to being capable of being used by people earning money from their art/design and we certainly want people to be able to earn money from using (and developing) Free and Open source... but maybe open source doesn't really fit the whole 'pro' advertising meme. (also Inkscape is being used by professionals already, and lots of different types which is why it's hard to nail down the industry/user-base)
Inkscape Any - as in, Inkscape for Anyone. ;)
Best Regards, Martin Owens
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In regard to features, I think "pro-grade" feature is just *any* advanced feature - it's the stuff that surprises you that it's included in a non-proprietary/free piece of software. It's a compliment, and I don't think we should be discouraging people from making such compliments about Inkscape or Inkscape features. We want to attract funding, we want developers to be paid for the work when they want/need it. Limiting our use of well-known and commonly used software advertising buzzwords will cause confusion, and cast doubt over the quality of the software.
My 2p. -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 6:27 PM, C R <cajhne@...400...> wrote:
Professional generally mean "made by professionals". It is not *proprietary* software, but it is professional software imho.
Professional is also a term that is used for software that can be used professionally. Inkscape definitely fits the bill here too.
Now say this to people: "Inkscape is not professional software."
Most people will not only not understand what is meant by that, they will one or several of the following:
- Inkscape is not made by professional developers
- Inkscape is not suitable for professional work
- Inkscape can not, or should not be used by professionals
Am i missing something? I don't know what problems we are trying to solve by saying Inkscape is not professional software. Jabier's work is definitely professional quality/grade. I use his stuff all the time and can vouch for the quality.
-C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Martin Owens <doctormo@...400...> wrote:
On 28 August 2017 at 12:33, Miguel Lopez <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
Why not both? Like if you were to make multiple strokes intersecting, it will automatically join if you enable it. If you were to make one stroke that intersect by itself, it will combine into 1 just like the spray tool with the join. This probably a bit too much, but it will be great if you can do this at some point. One step closer to going pro.
I love this feature very much. But we should not use pro (professional) as a term here, because Jabier is volunteering which is is literally the opposite of professional. I know you mean that inkscape is one step closer to being capable of being used by people earning money from their art/design and we certainly want people to be able to earn money from using (and developing) Free and Open source... but maybe open source doesn't really fit the whole 'pro' advertising meme. (also Inkscape is being used by professionals already, and lots of different types which is why it's hard to nail down the industry/user-base)
Inkscape Any - as in, Inkscape for Anyone. ;)
Best Regards, Martin Owens
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Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote:
Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2927....> <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking if the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature so here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the coolest features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I have been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it would not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a 100% representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing feature, maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase or decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the width of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be increases or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: https://yo utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the brush size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation to accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and more. Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard work you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot of work and new features are no small thing. I am not really a programmer so I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a need or desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3392...... r.es> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable
width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say
if
the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would
the
variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the
number
of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil
tool
using powerstroke?
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Yep, something on the line of the blob brush would be perfect for Inkscape. There's a lot to say for the needs of automating tasks, so I will leave it at here as I think we all can agree on that point, but one step at a time. :)
On 8/28/2017 1:13 PM, Nate Yungkans wrote: Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...mailto:reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote: Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...>mailto:jabier.arraiza@...2893... a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking if the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature so here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the coolest features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I have been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it would not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a 100% representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing feature, maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase or decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the width of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be increases or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: https://yohttps://yo/ utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144http://utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the brush size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation to accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97 https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97%C2%A0
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and more. Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard work you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot of work and new features are no small thing. I am not really a programmer so I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a need or desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3313...mailto:jabier.arraiza@...3313... r.eshttp://r.es> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable
width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say
if
the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would
the
variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the
number
of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil
tool
using powerstroke?
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Can the blob brush stroke be rescaled using knots like powerstroke is? Or does it just create vector shapes with fills?
Jabier's new feature is specifically for single-line strokes (not fills) with thinkness dictated by the pen pressure. Anything else is a different wishlist item. :)
Just an observation. -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 7:52 PM, Miguel Lopez <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
Yep, something on the line of the blob brush would be perfect for Inkscape. There's a lot to say for the needs of automating tasks, so I will leave it at here as I think we all can agree on that point, but one step at a time. :)
On 8/28/2017 1:13 PM, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote:
Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3120.....> a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking if the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature so here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the coolest features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I have been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it would not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a 100% representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing feature, maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase or decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the width of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be increases or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: https://yo utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the brush size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation to accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and more. Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard work you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot of work and new features are no small thing. I am not really a programmer so I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a need or desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3599...3... r.es> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable
width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say
if
the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would
the
variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the
number
of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil
tool
using powerstroke?
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It is a different wishlist item. It creates vector shapes with fills.
On Aug 28, 2017 2:56 PM, "C R" <cajhne@...400...> wrote:
Can the blob brush stroke be rescaled using knots like powerstroke is? Or does it just create vector shapes with fills?
Jabier's new feature is specifically for single-line strokes (not fills) with thinkness dictated by the pen pressure. Anything else is a different wishlist item. :)
Just an observation. -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 7:52 PM, Miguel Lopez <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
Yep, something on the line of the blob brush would be perfect for
Inkscape.
There's a lot to say for the needs of automating tasks, so I will leave it at here as I think we all can agree on that point, but one step at a time. :)
On 8/28/2017 1:13 PM, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator
blob
brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection
or
a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob
brush
does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on
the
calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right?
I'd
like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote:
Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3120.....> a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking if the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature so here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the coolest features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I have been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it would not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a 100% representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing feature, maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase or decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the width of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be increases or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: https://yo utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the brush size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation to accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and more. Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard work you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot of work and new features are no small thing. I am not really a programmer so I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a need or desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3599...3... r.es> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable
width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say
if
the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would
the
variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the
number
of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil
tool
using powerstroke?
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Hi all.
As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the caligraphic tool than for the pencil tool.
Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not pressent in Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to do but we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in calligraphic tool.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote:
Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3365...94... .es> a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just
asking if
the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a
feature so
here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program
and
find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the
coolest
features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I
have
been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver
for
manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is
incredibly
important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the
line
needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to
be
redrawn. The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state
may
require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a
lot
of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width
via
pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it
would
not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could
use
the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't
a 100%
representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying. I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit
of
reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed
line
work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing
feature,
maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines
as
well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate? Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to
increase or
decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from
main
path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the
width
of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure
and
applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be
increases
or decreased. Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34 Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: http
s://yo
utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144 That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the
brush
size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation
to
accomplish this effect in Inkscape. https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97%C2%A0 I think that covers what I was originally asking about and
more.
Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard
work
you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot
of work
and new features are no small thing. I am not really a
programmer so
I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a
need or
desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help! Manga line example that I did not draw: If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate -- Nate On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza
@marke
r.es> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply. Cheers, Jabier. On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
> Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is
no
realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable
width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more
complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I
couldn't say
if
the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the
person who
posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the
pressure is
greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or
would
the
variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that
the
number
of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with
Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so
he can
discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for
Pencil
tool
using powerstroke?
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I have also been thinking about the tools and menus in inkscape. I also think gimp is a good model in the way they manage tabs, which is very understandable.
I can make a document with some thoughts and suggestions that detail possible improvements to the user experience. I do a lot of mock ups and wireframes in my job and I am happy to create some detailed ones for inkscape. If doing that is welcome, I can work on it and submit through a new topic.
Inkscape has a ton of great features, but knowing how to get to them or navigate the UI is not always clear.
we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Hi Nate, we have a way of posting UI / wireframes on the website, there's a category for them which helps keeping them together. But it's totally up to you of course :-)
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On 29 August 2017 at 16:50, Nate Yungkans <nate@...3594...> wrote:
I have also been thinking about the tools and menus in inkscape. I also think gimp is a good model in the way they manage tabs, which is very understandable.
I can make a document with some thoughts and suggestions that detail possible improvements to the user experience. I do a lot of mock ups and wireframes in my job and I am happy to create some detailed ones for inkscape. If doing that is welcome, I can work on it and submit through a new topic.
Inkscape has a ton of great features, but knowing how to get to them or navigate the UI is not always clear.
we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Jabier: ¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Nate: I have also been thinking about the tools and menus in inkscape. I also think gimp is a good model in the way they manage tabs, which is very understandable.
Me: Yyaarrhh! I dislike GIMP's interface. But before I go too negative, are you talking about just making the main toolbox (currently on the left edge) with rows and columns?
That would be ok with me. (Would also be super awesome to finally have movable toolbars (not seen since 0.45, I think), including customizing button arrangement.)
But what I would not like is the control bar in little boxes. I like it at the top where I don't have to look around for it (open another little box).
It seems like I heard someone recently mention something like flyout menu for the control bar. So instead of being at the top, whatever tool you select on the left, the control bar shoots out across the canvas. I'm not sure if I like that idea. But I like it better than a hidden little box.
Make hiding optional would be ok.
Or what about just make the control bar double thick? Make 2 rows of buttons?
All best brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Nate Yungkans Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 2:50 PM To: jabier.arraiza@...2893... Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I have also been thinking about the tools and menus in inkscape. I also think gimp is a good model in the way they manage tabs, which is very understandable.
I can make a document with some thoughts and suggestions that detail possible improvements to the user experience. I do a lot of mock ups and wireframes in my job and I am happy to create some detailed ones for inkscape. If doing that is welcome, I can work on it and submit through a new topic.
Inkscape has a ton of great features, but knowing how to get to them or navigate the UI is not always clear.
we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
I'm planning on creating a thought out set of wireframes that will explain what I'm thinking of. What gimp does well is the rearranging of tabs and having a consistent hierarchy.
Being able to rearrange placement of tool bars is also very desirable so people can customize the layout. Programs like illustrator often have both a tool bar for quick functions and a tab menu for complete functionality.
On Aug 31, 2017 6:54 AM, "brynn" <brynn@...3133...> wrote:
Jabier: ¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Nate: I have also been thinking about the tools and menus in inkscape. I also think gimp is a good model in the way they manage tabs, which is very understandable.
Me: Yyaarrhh! I dislike GIMP's interface. But before I go too negative, are you talking about just making the main toolbox (currently on the left edge) with rows and columns?
That would be ok with me. (Would also be super awesome to finally have movable toolbars (not seen since 0.45, I think), including customizing button arrangement.)
But what I would not like is the control bar in little boxes. I like it at the top where I don't have to look around for it (open another little box).
It seems like I heard someone recently mention something like flyout menu for the control bar. So instead of being at the top, whatever tool you select on the left, the control bar shoots out across the canvas. I'm not sure if I like that idea. But I like it better than a hidden little box.
Make hiding optional would be ok.
Or what about just make the control bar double thick? Make 2 rows of buttons?
All best brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Nate Yungkans Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 2:50 PM To: jabier.arraiza@...2893... Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I have also been thinking about the tools and menus in inkscape. I also think gimp is a good model in the way they manage tabs, which is very understandable.
I can make a document with some thoughts and suggestions that detail possible improvements to the user experience. I do a lot of mock ups and wireframes in my job and I am happy to create some detailed ones for inkscape. If doing that is welcome, I can work on it and submit through a new topic.
Inkscape has a ton of great features, but knowing how to get to them or navigate the UI is not always clear.
we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
GIMP has something good in it? (I'm not a fan of GIMP, quite the opposite) I prefer to have options to expand options manually, and that is what I been doing in other programs.
On 8/31/2017 10:46 AM, Nate Yungkans wrote:
planning on creating a thought out set of wireframes that will explain what I'm thinking of. What gimp does well is the rearranging of tabs and having a consistent hierarchy.
Being able to rearrange placement of tool bars is also very desirable so people can customize the layout. Programs like illustrator often have both a tool bar for quick functions and a tab menu for complete functionality.
I think breaking out the brushes and effects into a dialog of its own is really the only way to go. I've not encountered a single graphics program out there which handles many (potentially customisable) brushes that doesn't have it's own side-panel/dock for the brush pallet. It really MUST happen at some point for Inkscape to become a better vector-brush drawing program.
Thanks to all for the hard work on this, esp Jabier! -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
Hi all.
As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the caligraphic tool than for the pencil tool.
Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not pressent in Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to do but we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in calligraphic tool.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote:
Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...837...394... .es> a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just
asking if
the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a
feature so
here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program
and
find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the
coolest
features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I
have
been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver
for
manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is
incredibly
important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the
line
needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to
be
redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state
may
require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a
lot
of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width
via
pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it
would
not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could
use
the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't
a 100%
representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit
of
reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed
line
work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing
feature,
maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines
as
well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to
increase or
decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from
main
path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the
width
of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure
and
applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be
increases
or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: http
s://yo
utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the
brush
size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation
to
accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and
more.
Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard
work
you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot
of work
and new features are no small thing. I am not really a
programmer so
I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a
need or
desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza
@marke
r.es> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote: > > Hi Brynn. > > Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is
no
> realtime > preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable width. > > Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more
complex.
> > Cheers, Jabier. > ________________________________________________ > > Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I
couldn't say
if > the lack of > live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the
person who
> posted the > message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments. > > How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the
pressure is
> greater? And > then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or
would
the > variable > width be immediately evident when the path is finished? > > And it would only work with graphics tablets? > > One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that
the
number > of nodes > probably would not build up so fast, as it does with
Calligraphy.
> > Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so
he can
> discuss > directly. > > All best,, > brynn > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jabier Arraiza > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM > To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for
Pencil
tool > using > powerstroke?
>
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I agree. also want make pressure sensibility to custom brushes, with or without powerstroke....
On Wed, 2017-08-30 at 09:39 +0100, C R wrote:
I think breaking out the brushes and effects into a dialog of its own is really the only way to go. I've not encountered a single graphics program out there which handles many (potentially customisable) brushes that doesn't have it's own side-panel/dock for the brush pallet. It really MUST happen at some point for Inkscape to become a better vector-brush drawing program.
Thanks to all for the hard work on this, esp Jabier! -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
Hi all.
As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the caligraphic tool than for the pencil tool.
Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not pressent in Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to do but we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in calligraphic tool.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote:
Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...233.....3326... rker .es> a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just
asking if
the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a
feature so
here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program
and
find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the
coolest
features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I
have
been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver
for
manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is
incredibly
important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the
line
needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to
be
redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state
may
require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a
lot
of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width
via
pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it
would
not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could
use
the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't
a 100%
representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit
of
reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed
line
work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing
feature,
maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines
as
well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to
increase or
decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from
main
path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the
width
of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure
and
applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be
increases
or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: http
s://yo
utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the
brush
size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation
to
accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and
more.
Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard
work
you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot
of work
and new features are no small thing. I am not really a
programmer so
I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a
need or
desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza
@marke
r.es> wrote: > I wait he present to the list to reply. > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote: > > > Hi Brynn. > > > > Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The > > problem is
no
> > realtime > > preview, so you need to finish the path to see the > > variable > > width. > > > > Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is > > more
complex.
> > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > ________________________________________________ > > > > Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I
couldn't say
> if > > the lack of > > live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the
person who
> > posted the > > message to subscribe to the list, so he can give > > comments. > > > > How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the
pressure is
> > greater? And > > then the artist drags them after the path is > > finished? Or
would
> the > > variable > > width be immediately evident when the path is finished? > > > > And it would only work with graphics tablets? > > > > One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be > > that
the
> number > > of nodes > > probably would not build up so fast, as it does with
Calligraphy.
> > > > Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe > > so
he can
> > discuss > > directly. > > > > All best,, > > brynn > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jabier Arraiza > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM > > To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel > > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for
Pencil
> tool > > using > > powerstroke? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > ----
> ------------- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > world's
most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashd > ot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-dev > el >
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for Inkscape to become a
better vector-brush drawing program
Does Inkscape really strive to be a vector-brush drawing program?? Isn't that like saying "vector paint program"?
I've really seen the term brush used more and more lately, in reference to Inkscape, and in what I consider to be an inappropriate way. Inkscape can achieve brush-like effects, with great effort. But unless there really is some plan to actually add true brushes, and develop Inkscape in that direction, I think we should discourage using that term. It gives a false impression of Inkscape capabilities, imo.
As it's referred to on the Pen and Pencil control bars, I think Shapes is better, referring to the profile of the stroke. Shapes, or maybe even "stroke profiles".
Referring to a different comment in this thread, I didn't intend to "bash" GIMP earlier. I just dislike the interface, as a personal opinion. There's every chance it's an effective interface for a raster program. But I don't think it would be effective for Inkscape. What's wrong with the Shapes menu, to hold the stroke profiles or so-called "brushes"?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 2:39 AM To: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz Cc: inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I think breaking out the brushes and effects into a dialog of its own is really the only way to go. I've not encountered a single graphics program out there which handles many (potentially customisable) brushes that doesn't have it's own side-panel/dock for the brush pallet. It really MUST happen at some point for Inkscape to become a better vector-brush drawing program.
Thanks to all for the hard work on this, esp Jabier! -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
Hi all.
As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the caligraphic tool than for the pencil tool.
Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not pressent in Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to do but we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in calligraphic tool.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote:
Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3394... .es> a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just
asking if
the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a
feature so
here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program
and
find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the
coolest
features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I
have
been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver
for
manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is
incredibly
important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the
line
needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to
be
redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state
may
require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a
lot
of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width
via
pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it
would
not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could
use
the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't
a 100%
representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit
of
reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed
line
work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing
feature,
maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines
as
well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to
increase or
decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from
main
path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the
width
of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure
and
applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be
increases
or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: http
s://yo
utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the
brush
size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation
to
accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and
more.
Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard
work
you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot
of work
and new features are no small thing. I am not really a
programmer so
I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a
need or
desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza
@marke
r.es> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote: > > Hi Brynn. > > Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is
no
> realtime > preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable width. > > Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more
complex.
> > Cheers, Jabier. > ________________________________________________ > > Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I
couldn't say
if > the lack of > live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the
person who
> posted the > message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments. > > How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the
pressure is
> greater? And > then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or
would
the > variable > width be immediately evident when the path is finished? > > And it would only work with graphics tablets? > > One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that
the
number > of nodes > probably would not build up so fast, as it does with
Calligraphy.
> > Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so
he can
> discuss > directly. > > All best,, > brynn > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jabier Arraiza > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM > To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for
Pencil
tool > using > powerstroke?
>
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I would say Inkscape should strive to be an all-round program as far as vector application goes, and there's literally no open-source alternative program in the vector field to Inkscape giving it more reasons for Inkscape to be an all-round program for vector application, and the closest is aided for printing and then name goes by Sk1. If there was another alternative program that is open source, then I can see the case to be made that Inkscape and that other program having a relationship like Krita and GIMP according to many open source communities, save for those people who use those program than what they're intended for. All the other open source vector program are abysmal in terms of vector features. It would really be nice to see fancy brushes into Inkscape like you see in Illustrator, but we just don't have the resource or development yet to reach the wide-range of application you see in Illustrator, and now Affinity Designer is reaching the very status of having wide-range of application near to the level of Illustrator.
Just my 2 cents.
On 9/2/2017 9:12 PM, brynn wrote:
for Inkscape to become a
better vector-brush drawing program
Does Inkscape really strive to be a vector-brush drawing program?? Isn't that like saying "vector paint program"?
I've really seen the term brush used more and more lately, in reference to Inkscape, and in what I consider to be an inappropriate way. Inkscape can achieve brush-like effects, with great effort. But unless there really is some plan to actually add true brushes, and develop Inkscape in that direction, I think we should discourage using that term. It gives a false impression of Inkscape capabilities, imo.
As it's referred to on the Pen and Pencil control bars, I think Shapes is better, referring to the profile of the stroke. Shapes, or maybe even "stroke profiles".
Referring to a different comment in this thread, I didn't intend to "bash" GIMP earlier. I just dislike the interface, as a personal opinion. There's every chance it's an effective interface for a raster program. But I don't think it would be effective for Inkscape. What's wrong with the Shapes menu, to hold the stroke profiles or so-called "brushes"?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 2:39 AM To: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz Cc: inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I think breaking out the brushes and effects into a dialog of its own is really the only way to go. I've not encountered a single graphics program out there which handles many (potentially customisable) brushes that doesn't have it's own side-panel/dock for the brush pallet. It really MUST happen at some point for Inkscape to become a better vector-brush drawing program.
Thanks to all for the hard work on this, esp Jabier! -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
Hi all.
As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the caligraphic tool than for the pencil tool.
Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not pressent in Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to do but we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in calligraphic tool.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote:
Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3394... .es> a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just
asking if
the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a
feature so
here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program
and
find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the
coolest
features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I
have
been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver
for
manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is
incredibly
important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the
line
needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to
be
redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state
may
require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a
lot
of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width
via
pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it
would
not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could
use
the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't
a 100%
representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit
of
reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed
line
work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing
feature,
maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines
as
well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to
increase or
decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from
main
path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the
width
of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure
and
applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be
increases
or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: http
s://yo
utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the
brush
size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation
to
accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and
more.
Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard
work
you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot
of work
and new features are no small thing. I am not really a
programmer so
I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a
need or
desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza
@marke
r.es> wrote: > I wait he present to the list to reply. > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote: > > > Hi Brynn. > > > > Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is
no
> > realtime > > preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable > width. > > > > Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more
complex.
> > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > ________________________________________________ > > > > Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I
couldn't say
> if > > the lack of > > live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the
person who
> > posted the > > message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments. > > > > How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the
pressure is
> > greater? And > > then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or
would
> the > > variable > > width be immediately evident when the path is finished? > > > > And it would only work with graphics tablets? > > > > One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that
the
> number > > of nodes > > probably would not build up so fast, as it does with
Calligraphy.
> > > > Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so
he can
> > discuss > > directly. > > > > All best,, > > brynn > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jabier Arraiza > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM > > To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel > > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for
Pencil
> tool > > using > > powerstroke? > > > -----------------------------------------------------------
> ------------- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel >
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It would really be nice to see fancy brushes into Inkscape like you see in Illustrator, but we just don't have the resource or development yet (snip)
Jabier is currently working on brushes (of various types), which was and should continue to be the focus of this thread. I recommend we get back to that, and save the software comparison analogies for another thread. We should concentrate on helping with the UI tweaks Jabier and others are requesting, which Inkscape needs to support his new (and old) features.
-C
Just my 2 cents.
On 9/2/2017 9:12 PM, brynn wrote:
for Inkscape to become a
better vector-brush drawing program
Does Inkscape really strive to be a vector-brush drawing program?? Isn't that like saying "vector paint program"?
I've really seen the term brush used more and more lately, in reference to Inkscape, and in what I consider to be an inappropriate way. Inkscape can achieve brush-like effects, with great effort. But unless there really is some plan to actually add true brushes, and develop Inkscape in that direction, I think we should discourage using that term. It gives a false impression of Inkscape capabilities, imo.
As it's referred to on the Pen and Pencil control bars, I think Shapes is better, referring to the profile of the stroke. Shapes, or maybe even "stroke profiles".
Referring to a different comment in this thread, I didn't intend to "bash" GIMP earlier. I just dislike the interface, as a personal opinion. There's every chance it's an effective interface for a raster program. But I don't think it would be effective for Inkscape. What's wrong with the Shapes menu, to hold the stroke profiles or so-called "brushes"?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 2:39 AM To: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz Cc: inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I think breaking out the brushes and effects into a dialog of its own is really the only way to go. I've not encountered a single graphics program out there which handles many (potentially customisable) brushes that doesn't have it's own side-panel/dock for the brush pallet. It really MUST happen at some point for Inkscape to become a better vector-brush drawing program.
Thanks to all for the hard work on this, esp Jabier! -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
Hi all.
As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the caligraphic tool than for the pencil tool.
Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not pressent in Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to do but we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in calligraphic tool.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote:
Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...1761....3394... .es> a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote: > Hi All, > I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking if > the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature so > here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and > find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the coolest > features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I have > been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying > inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure > sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for > manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly > important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in > Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works > nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line > needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be > redrawn. > > The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may > require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot > of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via > pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it would > not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use > the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a 100% > representation of the final product, it would guide the user to > understand how much pressure they are applying. > > I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of > reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line > work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing feature, > maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as > well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate? > > Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase or > decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main > path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the width > of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a > variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and > applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be increases > or decreased. > > Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34 > > Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: http s://yo > utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144 > > That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the brush > size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation to > accomplish this effect in Inkscape. > > > https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97 > > > I think that covers what I was originally asking about and more. > Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard work > you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot of work > and new features are no small thing. I am not really a programmer so > I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a need or > desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help! > > Manga line example that I did not draw: > > > If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! > -Nate > > > > > > > > -- > Nate > > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza @marke > r.es> wrote: > > I wait he present to the list to reply. > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote: > > > > Hi Brynn. > > > > > > Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no > > > realtime > > > preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable > > width. > > > > > > Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex. > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > ________________________________________________ > > > > > > Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say > > if > > > the lack of > > > live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who > > > posted the > > > message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments. > > > > > > How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is > > > greater? And > > > then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would > > the > > > variable > > > width be immediately evident when the path is finished? > > > > > > And it would only work with graphics tablets? > > > > > > One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the > > number > > > of nodes > > > probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy. > > > > > > Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can > > > discuss > > > directly. > > > > > > All best,, > > > brynn > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Jabier Arraiza > > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM > > > To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel > > > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil > > tool > > > using > > > powerstroke? > > >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > ------------- > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > _______________________________________________ > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > > >
>
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Hi all.
Yes Im working on brushes, I want to remove the overlaps on same withs over closed curves on powerstroke using sketetal strokes paper.
Im not sure I can go into the goal :(
About GIMP, Im refering exclusibely to have a tools dialog at right with unlimited space to do UX work instead the small tools toolbar at top.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Sun, 2017-09-03 at 08:41 +0100, C R wrote:
It would really be nice to see fancy brushes into Inkscape like you see in Illustrator, but we just don't have the resource or development yet (snip)
Jabier is currently working on brushes (of various types), which was and should continue to be the focus of this thread. I recommend we get back to that, and save the software comparison analogies for another thread. We should concentrate on helping with the UI tweaks Jabier and others are requesting, which Inkscape needs to support his new (and old) features.
-C
Just my 2 cents.
On 9/2/2017 9:12 PM, brynn wrote:
for Inkscape to become a
better vector-brush drawing program
Does Inkscape really strive to be a vector-brush drawing program?? Isn't that like saying "vector paint program"?
I've really seen the term brush used more and more lately, in reference to Inkscape, and in what I consider to be an inappropriate way. Inkscape can achieve brush-like effects, with great effort. But unless there really is some plan to actually add true brushes, and develop Inkscape in that direction, I think we should discourage using that term. It gives a false impression of Inkscape capabilities, imo.
As it's referred to on the Pen and Pencil control bars, I think Shapes is better, referring to the profile of the stroke. Shapes, or maybe even "stroke profiles".
Referring to a different comment in this thread, I didn't intend to "bash" GIMP earlier. I just dislike the interface, as a personal opinion. There's every chance it's an effective interface for a raster program. But I don't think it would be effective for Inkscape. What's wrong with the Shapes menu, to hold the stroke profiles or so-called "brushes"?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 2:39 AM To: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz Cc: inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I think breaking out the brushes and effects into a dialog of its own is really the only way to go. I've not encountered a single graphics program out there which handles many (potentially customisable) brushes that doesn't have it's own side-panel/dock for the brush pallet. It really MUST happen at some point for Inkscape to become a better vector-brush drawing program.
Thanks to all for the hard work on this, esp Jabier! -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
Hi all.
As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the caligraphic tool than for the pencil tool.
Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not pressent in Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to do but we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in calligraphic tool.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3603... m> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote: > Very convincing ! And there we have even more control > than > Expression for simple lines ! > > ivan > > > Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiz > a@...3394... > .es> a écrit : > > > Hi all! > > This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for > merge > request. > Here are a preview of the new branch running: > https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure > > All the best, Jabier. > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote: > > Hi All, > > I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started > > just > > asking if > > the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it > > as a > > feature so > > here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the > > program > > and > > find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one > > of the > > coolest > > features and I am having a lot of fun playing around > > with it. I > > have > > been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already > > enjoying > > inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about > > pressure > > sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time > > saver > > for > > manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is > > incredibly > > important. It seems like all of the features actually > > exist in > > Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy > > pen works > > nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but > > if the > > line > > needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically > > need to > > be > > redrawn. > > > > The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current > > state > > may > > require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if > > there are a > > lot > > of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke > > width > > via > > pressure would make it a very smooth process. > > Unfortunately it > > would > > not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe > > it could > > use > > the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if > > that isn't > > a 100% > > representation of the final product, it would guide the > > user to > > understand how much pressure they are applying. > > > > I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the > > benefit > > of > > reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast > > smoothed > > line > > work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a > > smoothing > > feature, > > maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer > > lines > > as > > well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample > > rate? > > > > Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way > > to > > increase or > > decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes > > from > > main > > path. In essence it would be like increasing or > > decreasing the > > width > > of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen > > using a > > variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen > > pressure > > and > > applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke > > to be > > increases > > or decreased. > > > > Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9 > > Y34 > > > > Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity > > options: http > > s://yo > > utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144 > > > > That same tool in adobe also has settings to > > control/limit the > > brush > > size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and > > fixation > > to > > accomplish this effect in Inkscape. > > > > > > https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97 > > > > > > I think that covers what I was originally asking about > > and > > more. > > Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all > > the hard > > work > > you have put into the program! I know this software is > > a lot > > of work > > and new features are no small thing. I am not really a > > programmer so > > I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you > > have a > > need or > > desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to > > help! > > > > Manga line example that I did not draw: > > > > > > If you got through the whole email, thanks for > > listening! > > -Nate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Nate > > > > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza > > <jabier.arraiza > > @marke > > r.es> wrote: > > > I wait he present to the list to reply. > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote: > > > > > Hi Brynn. > > > > > > > > Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The > > > > problem is > > no > > > > realtime > > > > preview, so you need to finish the path to see the > > > > variable > > > > > > width. > > > > > > > > Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is > > > > more > > complex. > > > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > ________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I > > couldn't say > > > if > > > > the lack of > > > > live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get > > > > the > > person who > > > > posted the > > > > message to subscribe to the list, so he can give > > > > comments. > > > > > > > > How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where > > > > the > > pressure is > > > > greater? And > > > > then the artist drags them after the path is > > > > finished? Or > > would > > > the > > > > variable > > > > width be immediately evident when the path is > > > > finished? > > > > > > > > And it would only work with graphics tablets? > > > > > > > > One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would > > > > be that > > the > > > number > > > > of nodes > > > > probably would not build up so fast, as it does > > > > with > > Calligraphy. > > > > > > > > Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to > > > > subscribe so > > he can > > > > discuss > > > > directly. > > > > > > > > All best,, > > > > brynn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Jabier Arraiza > > > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM > > > > To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel > > > > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity > > > > for > > Pencil > > > tool > > > > using > > > > powerstroke? > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > -------- > > ------ > > > ------------- > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > > > world's > > most > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/sl > > > ashdot > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape > > > -devel > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > --------------- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashd > ot______ > _________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-dev > el > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > --------------- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashd > ot > > > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-dev > el
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About GIMP, Im refering exclusibely to have a tools dialog at right
with unlimited space to do UX work instead the small tools toolbar at top.
Yeah, I would not like that!
Is there a problem making the current control bar "double"? 2 rows of icons instead of 1? It would only be needed for the longer controls bars (which I think are only 2 or 3).
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 3:02 AM To: C R ; Miguel Lopez Cc: brynn ; inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
with unlimited space to do UX work instead the small tools toolbar at top.
Yeah, I would not like that!
Why?
Is there a problem making the current control bar "double"? 2 rows of icons instead of 1? It would only be needed for the longer controls bars (which I think are only 2 or 3).
That doesn't solve the problem, it just eats up more vertical drawing space. The left-hand dialogues are already the convention for putting ui elements with lots of options (and there will be a ton more for brushes no doubt). There's no reason to start wrapping the top bar just to add more options - it's just for the more common options - for example the "current brush" is an idea place for that, but all the brushes, is decidedly not. :)
-C
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 3:02 AM To: C R ; Miguel Lopez Cc: brynn ; inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Yeah, I would not like that!
Why?
Because currently, the control bar is already visible. If I want something on it, all I have to do it click on it. If you put it in a little box or dialog, then we have to make an extra click to even just look at it.
Plus, there are already a lot of dialogs, and not much space over there. Even though it would still take an extra click, I would prefer the dropdown menu on the control bar, to another dialog (whether docked or floating).
That doesn't solve the problem, it just eats up more vertical drawing space.
I get that it takes up an extra half inch of vertical space. But we're just talking about 2 or 3 tools. If it was permanent space, I would not want to give it up. But since it's only taken up when those 2 or 3 tools are enabled, it's temporary.
But how doesn't it solve the problem?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Monday, September 04, 2017 5:50 AM To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; Miguel Lopez ; inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
with unlimited space to do UX work instead the small tools toolbar at top.
Yeah, I would not like that!
Why?
Is there a problem making the current control bar "double"? 2 rows of icons instead of 1? It would only be needed for the longer controls bars (which I think are only 2 or 3).
That doesn't solve the problem, it just eats up more vertical drawing space. The left-hand dialogues are already the convention for putting ui elements with lots of options (and there will be a ton more for brushes no doubt). There's no reason to start wrapping the top bar just to add more options - it's just for the more common options - for example the "current brush" is an idea place for that, but all the brushes, is decidedly not. :)
-C
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 3:02 AM To: C R ; Miguel Lopez Cc: brynn ; inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Does Inkscape really strive to be a vector-brush drawing program?? Isn't that like saying "vector paint program"?
Inkscape is a vector drawing program. In previous threads, we expanded the term "drawing" to encompass, well pretty much anything. :) Why limit Inkscape's vector capabilities because it doesn't fit a particular definition of "drawing"?
I've really seen the term brush used more and more lately, in reference to Inkscape, and in what I consider to be an inappropriate way. Inkscape can achieve brush-like effects, with great effort. But unless there really is some plan to actually add true brushes, and develop Inkscape in that direction, I think we should discourage using that term. It gives a false impression of Inkscape capabilities, imo.
The term "brush" is used because that's what the effect is. Inkscape already has vector brushes in the Caligraphy tool. It's important to use terminology that users are familiar with. Saves a lot of explaining, just to be told "well, why didn't you call them brushes" like everyone else? :) I brush (in all graphics programs) refers to a shape applied along a path with added transformations. The effect is that it acts like a brush, so the term brush is appropriate here as well as in other drawing/painting/editing applications.
As it's referred to on the Pen and Pencil control bars, I think Shapes is better, referring to the profile of the stroke. Shapes, or maybe even "stroke profiles".
Or we could call them "brushes" like everyone else does, and spare the user the technical jargon we make up. :) Our "stroke profiles" are analogous to "brushes" in other programs. So when people ask "does Inkscape have brushes?" And we hit them with "no, but we have stroke profiles." Yea... let's just call them brushes like everyone else does, for the same reasons everyone else does. :)
Referring to a different comment in this thread, I didn't intend to "bash" GIMP earlier.
That comment was in regard to the remark "There's something good in GIMP?" - Don't do this, people. GIMP project are our friends, and you'll make none here by belittling another projects hard work.
I just dislike the interface, as a personal opinion.
We are not talking about GIMP's whole interface (as if one could write it all off as "bad" or something). Someone is mocking up wireframes based on how GIMP handles brushes. That's what sparked the GIMP comments... and people keep derailing the conversation. GIMP's entire user interface is not within the scope of this thread. Let's see where the wireframes go before denouncing it because it might look kinda like how GIMP does it.
There's every chance it's an effective interface for a raster program. But I don't think it would be effective for Inkscape.
No one is suggesting copying GIMPs whole user interface. :P
What's wrong with the Shapes menu, to hold the stroke profiles or so-called "brushes"?
"Where are the brushes in Inkscape" "They are in the 'Shapes Menu'."
Nah, not feeling it, personally. ;) Most everything in Inkscape is a "shape". Say "Brush", and people will know what you are talking about right away.
No need to reinvent the wheel here from my perspective. We could call them "vector brushes" like Krita does. It's important to stick with terms that are analogous to real life terms that are similar to the functionality. It makes learning and recall easier, and thus more intuitive.
-C
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 2:39 AM To: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz Cc: inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I think breaking out the brushes and effects into a dialog of its own is really the only way to go. I've not encountered a single graphics program out there which handles many (potentially customisable) brushes that doesn't have it's own side-panel/dock for the brush pallet. It really MUST happen at some point for Inkscape to become a better vector-brush drawing program.
Thanks to all for the hard work on this, esp Jabier! -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
Hi all.
As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the caligraphic tool than for the pencil tool.
Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not pressent in Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to do but we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in calligraphic tool.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote:
Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...360...3394... .es> a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just
asking if
the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a
feature so
here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program
and
find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the
coolest
features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I
have
been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver
for
manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is
incredibly
important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the
line
needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to
be
redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state
may
require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a
lot
of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width
via
pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it
would
not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could
use
the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't
a 100%
representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit
of
reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed
line
work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing
feature,
maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines
as
well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to
increase or
decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from
main
path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the
width
of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure
and
applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be
increases
or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: http
s://yo
utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the
brush
size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation
to
accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and
more.
Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard
work
you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot
of work
and new features are no small thing. I am not really a
programmer so
I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a
need or
desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza
@marke
r.es> wrote: > I wait he present to the list to reply. > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote: > > > Hi Brynn. > > > > Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is
no
> > realtime > > preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable > width. > > > > Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more
complex.
> > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > ________________________________________________ > > > > Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I
couldn't say
> if > > the lack of > > live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the
person who
> > posted the > > message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments. > > > > How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the
pressure is
> > greater? And > > then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or
would
> the > > variable > > width be immediately evident when the path is finished? > > > > And it would only work with graphics tablets? > > > > One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that
the
> number > > of nodes > > probably would not build up so fast, as it does with
Calligraphy.
> > > > Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so
he can
> > discuss > > directly. > > > > All best,, > > brynn > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jabier Arraiza > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM > > To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel > > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for
Pencil
> tool > > using > > powerstroke? > > > -----------------------------------------------------------
> ------------- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel >
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Well, I'm just thinking of it in terms of providing support. If they are called brushes, then pretty soon, we're getting messages like "your brushes are crap, why don't you make them work like all the other brushes in the world". "Why don't you have a so and so brush, like all the other paint programs?" "Why can't I import the brush I made in GIMP into Inkscape?" And etc. (We actually had the latter question in a forum, a few years ago!)
If we call them something that more reflects the vector-ness, then we don't have that problem. I'm afraid that people will compare them to raster brushes, and they just aren't the same. They're similar, but so very different, at the same time.
In many other areas, Inkscape has created its own terminology...or used SVG terminology. Inkscape calls "nodes" what other programs call "points", as a prominent example. Inkscape calls 'paths" what other programs call "lines".
I wonder if we could look to SVG (standards) to guide the terminology...somehow?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 1:31 AM To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Does Inkscape really strive to be a vector-brush drawing program?? Isn't that like saying "vector paint program"?
Inkscape is a vector drawing program. In previous threads, we expanded the term "drawing" to encompass, well pretty much anything. :) Why limit Inkscape's vector capabilities because it doesn't fit a particular definition of "drawing"?
I've really seen the term brush used more and more lately, in reference to Inkscape, and in what I consider to be an inappropriate way. Inkscape can achieve brush-like effects, with great effort. But unless there really is some plan to actually add true brushes, and develop Inkscape in that direction, I think we should discourage using that term. It gives a false impression of Inkscape capabilities, imo.
The term "brush" is used because that's what the effect is. Inkscape already has vector brushes in the Caligraphy tool. It's important to use terminology that users are familiar with. Saves a lot of explaining, just to be told "well, why didn't you call them brushes" like everyone else? :) I brush (in all graphics programs) refers to a shape applied along a path with added transformations. The effect is that it acts like a brush, so the term brush is appropriate here as well as in other drawing/painting/editing applications.
As it's referred to on the Pen and Pencil control bars, I think Shapes is better, referring to the profile of the stroke. Shapes, or maybe even "stroke profiles".
Or we could call them "brushes" like everyone else does, and spare the user the technical jargon we make up. :) Our "stroke profiles" are analogous to "brushes" in other programs. So when people ask "does Inkscape have brushes?" And we hit them with "no, but we have stroke profiles." Yea... let's just call them brushes like everyone else does, for the same reasons everyone else does. :)
Referring to a different comment in this thread, I didn't intend to "bash" GIMP earlier.
That comment was in regard to the remark "There's something good in GIMP?" - Don't do this, people. GIMP project are our friends, and you'll make none here by belittling another projects hard work.
I just dislike the interface, as a personal opinion.
We are not talking about GIMP's whole interface (as if one could write it all off as "bad" or something). Someone is mocking up wireframes based on how GIMP handles brushes. That's what sparked the GIMP comments... and people keep derailing the conversation. GIMP's entire user interface is not within the scope of this thread. Let's see where the wireframes go before denouncing it because it might look kinda like how GIMP does it.
There's every chance it's an effective interface for a raster program. But I don't think it would be effective for Inkscape.
No one is suggesting copying GIMPs whole user interface. :P
What's wrong with the Shapes menu, to hold the stroke profiles or so-called "brushes"?
"Where are the brushes in Inkscape" "They are in the 'Shapes Menu'."
Nah, not feeling it, personally. ;) Most everything in Inkscape is a "shape". Say "Brush", and people will know what you are talking about right away.
No need to reinvent the wheel here from my perspective. We could call them "vector brushes" like Krita does. It's important to stick with terms that are analogous to real life terms that are similar to the functionality. It makes learning and recall easier, and thus more intuitive.
-C
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 2:39 AM To: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz Cc: inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I think breaking out the brushes and effects into a dialog of its own is really the only way to go. I've not encountered a single graphics program out there which handles many (potentially customisable) brushes that doesn't have it's own side-panel/dock for the brush pallet. It really MUST happen at some point for Inkscape to become a better vector-brush drawing program.
Thanks to all for the hard work on this, esp Jabier! -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
Hi all.
As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the caligraphic tool than for the pencil tool.
Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not pressent in Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to do but we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in calligraphic tool.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote:
Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3394... .es> a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just
asking if
the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a
feature so
here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program
and
find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the
coolest
features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I
have
been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver
for
manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is
incredibly
important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the
line
needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to
be
redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state
may
require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a
lot
of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width
via
pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it
would
not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could
use
the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't
a 100%
representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit
of
reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed
line
work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing
feature,
maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines
as
well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to
increase or
decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from
main
path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the
width
of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure
and
applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be
increases
or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: http
s://yo
utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the
brush
size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation
to
accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and
more.
Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard
work
you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot
of work
and new features are no small thing. I am not really a
programmer so
I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a
need or
desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza
@marke
r.es> wrote: > I wait he present to the list to reply. > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote: > > > Hi Brynn. > > > > Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is
no
> > realtime > > preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable > width. > > > > Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more
complex.
> > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > ________________________________________________ > > > > Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I
couldn't say
> if > > the lack of > > live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the
person who
> > posted the > > message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments. > > > > How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the
pressure is
> > greater? And > > then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or
would
> the > > variable > > width be immediately evident when the path is finished? > > > > And it would only work with graphics tablets? > > > > One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that
the
> number > > of nodes > > probably would not build up so fast, as it does with
Calligraphy.
> > > > Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so
he can
> > discuss > > directly. > > > > All best,, > > brynn > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jabier Arraiza > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM > > To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel > > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for
Pencil
> tool > > using > > powerstroke? > > > -----------------------------------------------------------
> ------------- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel >
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Well, I'm just thinking of it in terms of providing support. If they are called brushes, then pretty soon, we're getting messages like "your brushes are crap, why don't you make them work like all the other brushes in the world".
If they say that, at least we'd know what they are talking about. That as apposed to "The stroke is crap!" - Which could be any one of a hundred non-brush related problems. :)
"Why don't you have a so and so brush, like all the other paint programs?"
We don't want wishlist items anymore? Also, would be a great place to put custom brushes. Currently, our users have to jump through some invisible hoops to get a shape to flow like a brush stroke. This has needed a proper dialogue for a while, and this is the perfect opportunity to give it one.
"Why can't I import the brush I made in GIMP into Inkscape?" And etc. (We actually had the latter question in a forum, a few years ago!)
The thing is, with Jabier's brush system, you may be actually be able to do these things in the near future. If we make up new names for things just to prevent comparisons and user questions, we sacrifice discover-ability, and also wishlist items that make the brush system more versatile and easier to use.
No doubt we get all sorts of questions about raster transformations from people who are new to a vector editor. This is not a good enough reason to change common terminology between the programs, it is a good opportunity to educate people on the differences between vector and raster editors.
A vector brush is still a brush, just as a raster brush is still a brush. The functionality is identical to the user, and so should the terminology.
Also, when people do compare, we can immediately point out the advantages of Inkscape vector brushes vs. GIMP brushes - just have them zoom in. :) They'll get it right away.
-C
If we call them something that more reflects the vector-ness, then we don't have that problem. I'm afraid that people will compare them to raster brushes, and they just aren't the same. They're similar, but so very different, at the same time.
In many other areas, Inkscape has created its own terminology...or used SVG terminology. Inkscape calls "nodes" what other programs call "points", as a prominent example. Inkscape calls 'paths" what other programs call "lines".
I wonder if we could look to SVG (standards) to guide the terminology...somehow?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 1:31 AM To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Does Inkscape really strive to be a vector-brush drawing program?? Isn't that like saying "vector paint program"?
Inkscape is a vector drawing program. In previous threads, we expanded the term "drawing" to encompass, well pretty much anything. :) Why limit Inkscape's vector capabilities because it doesn't fit a particular definition of "drawing"?
I've really seen the term brush used more and more lately, in reference to Inkscape, and in what I consider to be an inappropriate way. Inkscape can achieve brush-like effects, with great effort. But unless there really is some plan to actually add true brushes, and develop Inkscape in that direction, I think we should discourage using that term. It gives a false impression of Inkscape capabilities, imo.
The term "brush" is used because that's what the effect is. Inkscape already has vector brushes in the Caligraphy tool. It's important to use terminology that users are familiar with. Saves a lot of explaining, just to be told "well, why didn't you call them brushes" like everyone else? :) I brush (in all graphics programs) refers to a shape applied along a path with added transformations. The effect is that it acts like a brush, so the term brush is appropriate here as well as in other drawing/painting/editing applications.
As it's referred to on the Pen and Pencil control bars, I think Shapes is better, referring to the profile of the stroke. Shapes, or maybe even "stroke profiles".
Or we could call them "brushes" like everyone else does, and spare the user the technical jargon we make up. :) Our "stroke profiles" are analogous to "brushes" in other programs. So when people ask "does Inkscape have brushes?" And we hit them with "no, but we have stroke profiles." Yea... let's just call them brushes like everyone else does, for the same reasons everyone else does. :)
Referring to a different comment in this thread, I didn't intend to "bash" GIMP earlier.
That comment was in regard to the remark "There's something good in GIMP?" - Don't do this, people. GIMP project are our friends, and you'll make none here by belittling another projects hard work.
I just dislike the interface, as a personal opinion.
We are not talking about GIMP's whole interface (as if one could write it all off as "bad" or something). Someone is mocking up wireframes based on how GIMP handles brushes. That's what sparked the GIMP comments... and people keep derailing the conversation. GIMP's entire user interface is not within the scope of this thread. Let's see where the wireframes go before denouncing it because it might look kinda like how GIMP does it.
There's every chance it's an effective interface for a raster program. But I don't think it would be effective for Inkscape.
No one is suggesting copying GIMPs whole user interface. :P
What's wrong with the Shapes menu, to hold the stroke profiles or so-called "brushes"?
"Where are the brushes in Inkscape" "They are in the 'Shapes Menu'."
Nah, not feeling it, personally. ;) Most everything in Inkscape is a "shape". Say "Brush", and people will know what you are talking about right away.
No need to reinvent the wheel here from my perspective. We could call them "vector brushes" like Krita does. It's important to stick with terms that are analogous to real life terms that are similar to the functionality. It makes learning and recall easier, and thus more intuitive.
-C
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 2:39 AM To: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz Cc: inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I think breaking out the brushes and effects into a dialog of its own is really the only way to go. I've not encountered a single graphics program out there which handles many (potentially customisable) brushes that doesn't have it's own side-panel/dock for the brush pallet. It really MUST happen at some point for Inkscape to become a better vector-brush drawing program.
Thanks to all for the hard work on this, esp Jabier! -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
Hi all.
As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the caligraphic tool than for the pencil tool.
Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not pressent in Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to do but we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in calligraphic tool.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote:
Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...1761....3394... .es> a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote: > Hi All, > I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking if > the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature so > here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and > find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the coolest > features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I have > been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying > inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure > sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for > manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly > important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in > Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works > nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line > needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be > redrawn. > > The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may > require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot > of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via > pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it would > not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use > the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a 100% > representation of the final product, it would guide the user to > understand how much pressure they are applying. > > I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of > reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line > work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing feature, > maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as > well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate? > > Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase or > decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main > path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the width > of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a > variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and > applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be increases > or decreased. > > Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34 > > Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: http s://yo > utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144 > > That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the brush > size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation to > accomplish this effect in Inkscape. > > > https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97 > > > I think that covers what I was originally asking about and more. > Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard work > you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot of work > and new features are no small thing. I am not really a programmer so > I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a need or > desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help! > > Manga line example that I did not draw: > > > If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! > -Nate > > > > > > > > -- > Nate > > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza @marke > r.es> wrote: > > I wait he present to the list to reply. > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote: > > > > Hi Brynn. > > > > > > Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no > > > realtime > > > preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable > > width. > > > > > > Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex. > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > ________________________________________________ > > > > > > Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say > > if > > > the lack of > > > live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who > > > posted the > > > message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments. > > > > > > How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is > > > greater? And > > > then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would > > the > > > variable > > > width be immediately evident when the path is finished? > > > > > > And it would only work with graphics tablets? > > > > > > One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the > > number > > > of nodes > > > probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy. > > > > > > Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can > > > discuss > > > directly. > > > > > > All best,, > > > brynn > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Jabier Arraiza > > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM > > > To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel > > > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil > > tool > > > using > > > powerstroke? > > >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > ------------- > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > _______________________________________________ > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > > >
>
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot______ _________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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Hi
On Mon, 2017-09-04 at 13:06 +0100, C R wrote:
The thing is, with Jabier's brush system, you may be actually be able to do these things in the near future.
Too optimist without near 0 lines of code write. Is a very complex problem And I realy think I coulden't do without hard help. But I try.
Cheers, Jabier.
If we make up new names for things just to prevent comparisons and user questions, we sacrifice discover-ability, and also wishlist items that make the brush system more versatile and easier to use.
No doubt we get all sorts of questions about raster transformations from people who are new to a vector editor. This is not a good enough reason to change common terminology between the programs, it is a good opportunity to educate people on the differences between vector and raster editors.
A vector brush is still a brush, just as a raster brush is still a brush. The functionality is identical to the user, and so should the terminology.
Also, when people do compare, we can immediately point out the advantages of Inkscape vector brushes vs. GIMP brushes - just have them zoom in. :) They'll get it right away.
-C
If we call them something that more reflects the vector-ness, then we don't have that problem. I'm afraid that people will compare them to raster brushes, and they just aren't the same. They're similar, but so very different, at the same time.
In many other areas, Inkscape has created its own terminology...or used SVG terminology. Inkscape calls "nodes" what other programs call "points", as a prominent example. Inkscape calls 'paths" what other programs call "lines".
I wonder if we could look to SVG (standards) to guide the terminology...somehow?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 1:31 AM To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Does Inkscape really strive to be a vector-brush drawing program?? Isn't that like saying "vector paint program"?
Inkscape is a vector drawing program. In previous threads, we expanded the term "drawing" to encompass, well pretty much anything. :) Why limit Inkscape's vector capabilities because it doesn't fit a particular definition of "drawing"?
I've really seen the term brush used more and more lately, in reference to Inkscape, and in what I consider to be an inappropriate way. Inkscape can achieve brush-like effects, with great effort. But unless there really is some plan to actually add true brushes, and develop Inkscape in that direction, I think we should discourage using that term. It gives a false impression of Inkscape capabilities, imo.
The term "brush" is used because that's what the effect is. Inkscape already has vector brushes in the Caligraphy tool. It's important to use terminology that users are familiar with. Saves a lot of explaining, just to be told "well, why didn't you call them brushes" like everyone else? :) I brush (in all graphics programs) refers to a shape applied along a path with added transformations. The effect is that it acts like a brush, so the term brush is appropriate here as well as in other drawing/painting/editing applications.
As it's referred to on the Pen and Pencil control bars, I think Shapes is better, referring to the profile of the stroke. Shapes, or maybe even "stroke profiles".
Or we could call them "brushes" like everyone else does, and spare the user the technical jargon we make up. :) Our "stroke profiles" are analogous to "brushes" in other programs. So when people ask "does Inkscape have brushes?" And we hit them with "no, but we have stroke profiles." Yea... let's just call them brushes like everyone else does, for the same reasons everyone else does. :)
Referring to a different comment in this thread, I didn't intend to "bash" GIMP earlier.
That comment was in regard to the remark "There's something good in GIMP?" - Don't do this, people. GIMP project are our friends, and you'll make none here by belittling another projects hard work.
I just dislike the interface, as a personal opinion.
We are not talking about GIMP's whole interface (as if one could write it all off as "bad" or something). Someone is mocking up wireframes based on how GIMP handles brushes. That's what sparked the GIMP comments... and people keep derailing the conversation. GIMP's entire user interface is not within the scope of this thread. Let's see where the wireframes go before denouncing it because it might look kinda like how GIMP does it.
There's every chance it's an effective interface for a raster program. But I don't think it would be effective for Inkscape.
No one is suggesting copying GIMPs whole user interface. :P
What's wrong with the Shapes menu, to hold the stroke profiles or so-called "brushes"?
"Where are the brushes in Inkscape" "They are in the 'Shapes Menu'."
Nah, not feeling it, personally. ;) Most everything in Inkscape is a "shape". Say "Brush", and people will know what you are talking about right away.
No need to reinvent the wheel here from my perspective. We could call them "vector brushes" like Krita does. It's important to stick with terms that are analogous to real life terms that are similar to the functionality. It makes learning and recall easier, and thus more intuitive.
-C
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 2:39 AM To: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz Cc: inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I think breaking out the brushes and effects into a dialog of its own is really the only way to go. I've not encountered a single graphics program out there which handles many (potentially customisable) brushes that doesn't have it's own side-panel/dock for the brush pallet. It really MUST happen at some point for Inkscape to become a better vector-brush drawing program.
Thanks to all for the hard work on this, esp Jabier! -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
Hi all.
As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the caligraphic tool than for the pencil tool.
Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not pressent in Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to do but we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in calligraphic tool.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3603... m> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote: > Very convincing ! And there we have even more control > than > Expression for simple lines ! > > ivan > > > Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiz > a@...3394... > .es> a écrit : > > > Hi all! > > This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for > merge > request. > Here are a preview of the new branch running: > https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure > > All the best, Jabier. > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote: > > Hi All, > > I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started > > just > > asking if > > the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it > > as a > > feature so > > here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the > > program > > and > > find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one > > of the > > coolest > > features and I am having a lot of fun playing around > > with it. I > > have > > been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already > > enjoying > > inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about > > pressure > > sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time > > saver > > for > > manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is > > incredibly > > important. It seems like all of the features actually > > exist in > > Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy > > pen works > > nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but > > if the > > line > > needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically > > need to > > be > > redrawn. > > > > The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current > > state > > may > > require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if > > there are a > > lot > > of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke > > width > > via > > pressure would make it a very smooth process. > > Unfortunately it > > would > > not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe > > it could > > use > > the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if > > that isn't > > a 100% > > representation of the final product, it would guide the > > user to > > understand how much pressure they are applying. > > > > I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the > > benefit > > of > > reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast > > smoothed > > line > > work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a > > smoothing > > feature, > > maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer > > lines > > as > > well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample > > rate? > > > > Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way > > to > > increase or > > decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes > > from > > main > > path. In essence it would be like increasing or > > decreasing the > > width > > of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen > > using a > > variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen > > pressure > > and > > applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke > > to be > > increases > > or decreased. > > > > Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9 > > Y34 > > > > Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity > > options: http > > s://yo > > utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144 > > > > That same tool in adobe also has settings to > > control/limit the > > brush > > size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and > > fixation > > to > > accomplish this effect in Inkscape. > > > > > > https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97 > > > > > > I think that covers what I was originally asking about > > and > > more. > > Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all > > the hard > > work > > you have put into the program! I know this software is > > a lot > > of work > > and new features are no small thing. I am not really a > > programmer so > > I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you > > have a > > need or > > desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to > > help! > > > > Manga line example that I did not draw: > > > > > > If you got through the whole email, thanks for > > listening! > > -Nate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Nate > > > > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza > > <jabier.arraiza > > @marke > > r.es> wrote: > > > I wait he present to the list to reply. > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote: > > > > > Hi Brynn. > > > > > > > > Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The > > > > problem is > > no > > > > realtime > > > > preview, so you need to finish the path to see the > > > > variable > > > > > > width. > > > > > > > > Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is > > > > more > > complex. > > > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > ________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I > > couldn't say > > > if > > > > the lack of > > > > live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get > > > > the > > person who > > > > posted the > > > > message to subscribe to the list, so he can give > > > > comments. > > > > > > > > How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where > > > > the > > pressure is > > > > greater? And > > > > then the artist drags them after the path is > > > > finished? Or > > would > > > the > > > > variable > > > > width be immediately evident when the path is > > > > finished? > > > > > > > > And it would only work with graphics tablets? > > > > > > > > One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would > > > > be that > > the > > > number > > > > of nodes > > > > probably would not build up so fast, as it does > > > > with > > Calligraphy. > > > > > > > > Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to > > > > subscribe so > > he can > > > > discuss > > > > directly. > > > > > > > > All best,, > > > > brynn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Jabier Arraiza > > > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM > > > > To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel > > > > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity > > > > for > > Pencil > > > tool > > > > using > > > > powerstroke? > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > -------- > > ------ > > > ------------- > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > > > world's > > most > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/sl > > > ashdot > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape > > > -devel > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > --------------- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashd > ot______ > _________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-dev > el > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > --------------- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashd > ot > > > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-dev > el
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Can't Potrace be used to convert GIMP brush to Inkscape brush as a starting point? I have a feeling I'm missing something here.
On 9/4/2017 4:13 PM, Jabier Arraiza wrote:
Hi
On Mon, 2017-09-04 at 13:06 +0100, C R wrote:
The thing is, with Jabier's brush system, you may be actually be able to do these things in the near future.
Too optimist without near 0 lines of code write. Is a very complex problem And I realy think I coulden't do without hard help. But I try.
Cheers, Jabier.
If we make up new names for things just to prevent comparisons and user questions, we sacrifice discover-ability, and also wishlist items that make the brush system more versatile and easier to use.
No doubt we get all sorts of questions about raster transformations from people who are new to a vector editor. This is not a good enough reason to change common terminology between the programs, it is a good opportunity to educate people on the differences between vector and raster editors.
A vector brush is still a brush, just as a raster brush is still a brush. The functionality is identical to the user, and so should the terminology.
Also, when people do compare, we can immediately point out the advantages of Inkscape vector brushes vs. GIMP brushes - just have them zoom in. :) They'll get it right away.
-C
If we call them something that more reflects the vector-ness, then we don't have that problem. I'm afraid that people will compare them to raster brushes, and they just aren't the same. They're similar, but so very different, at the same time.
In many other areas, Inkscape has created its own terminology...or used SVG terminology. Inkscape calls "nodes" what other programs call "points", as a prominent example. Inkscape calls 'paths" what other programs call "lines".
I wonder if we could look to SVG (standards) to guide the terminology...somehow?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 1:31 AM To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Does Inkscape really strive to be a vector-brush drawing program?? Isn't that like saying "vector paint program"?
Inkscape is a vector drawing program. In previous threads, we expanded the term "drawing" to encompass, well pretty much anything. :) Why limit Inkscape's vector capabilities because it doesn't fit a particular definition of "drawing"?
I've really seen the term brush used more and more lately, in reference to Inkscape, and in what I consider to be an inappropriate way. Inkscape can achieve brush-like effects, with great effort. But unless there really is some plan to actually add true brushes, and develop Inkscape in that direction, I think we should discourage using that term. It gives a false impression of Inkscape capabilities, imo.
The term "brush" is used because that's what the effect is. Inkscape already has vector brushes in the Caligraphy tool. It's important to use terminology that users are familiar with. Saves a lot of explaining, just to be told "well, why didn't you call them brushes" like everyone else? :) I brush (in all graphics programs) refers to a shape applied along a path with added transformations. The effect is that it acts like a brush, so the term brush is appropriate here as well as in other drawing/painting/editing applications.
As it's referred to on the Pen and Pencil control bars, I think Shapes is better, referring to the profile of the stroke. Shapes, or maybe even "stroke profiles".
Or we could call them "brushes" like everyone else does, and spare the user the technical jargon we make up. :) Our "stroke profiles" are analogous to "brushes" in other programs. So when people ask "does Inkscape have brushes?" And we hit them with "no, but we have stroke profiles." Yea... let's just call them brushes like everyone else does, for the same reasons everyone else does. :)
Referring to a different comment in this thread, I didn't intend to "bash" GIMP earlier.
That comment was in regard to the remark "There's something good in GIMP?" - Don't do this, people. GIMP project are our friends, and you'll make none here by belittling another projects hard work.
I just dislike the interface, as a personal opinion.
We are not talking about GIMP's whole interface (as if one could write it all off as "bad" or something). Someone is mocking up wireframes based on how GIMP handles brushes. That's what sparked the GIMP comments... and people keep derailing the conversation. GIMP's entire user interface is not within the scope of this thread. Let's see where the wireframes go before denouncing it because it might look kinda like how GIMP does it.
There's every chance it's an effective interface for a raster program. But I don't think it would be effective for Inkscape.
No one is suggesting copying GIMPs whole user interface. :P
What's wrong with the Shapes menu, to hold the stroke profiles or so-called "brushes"?
"Where are the brushes in Inkscape" "They are in the 'Shapes Menu'."
Nah, not feeling it, personally. ;) Most everything in Inkscape is a "shape". Say "Brush", and people will know what you are talking about right away.
No need to reinvent the wheel here from my perspective. We could call them "vector brushes" like Krita does. It's important to stick with terms that are analogous to real life terms that are similar to the functionality. It makes learning and recall easier, and thus more intuitive.
-C
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 2:39 AM To: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz Cc: inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I think breaking out the brushes and effects into a dialog of its own is really the only way to go. I've not encountered a single graphics program out there which handles many (potentially customisable) brushes that doesn't have it's own side-panel/dock for the brush pallet. It really MUST happen at some point for Inkscape to become a better vector-brush drawing program.
Thanks to all for the hard work on this, esp Jabier! -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...>mailto:jabier.arraiza@...2893... wrote:
Hi all.
As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the caligraphic tool than for the pencil tool.
Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not pressent in Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to do but we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in calligraphic tool.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3603... m>mailto:reptillia39@...3425... wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote:
Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiz a@...3394... .es> a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just
asking if
the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a
feature so
here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program
and
find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the
coolest
features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I
have
been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver
for
manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is
incredibly
important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the
line
needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to
be
redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state
may
require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a
lot
of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width
via
pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it
would
not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could
use
the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't
a 100%
representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit
of
reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed
line
work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing
feature,
maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines
as
well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to
increase or
decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from
main
path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the
width
of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure
and
applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be
increases
or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9 Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: http
s://yo
utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the
brush
size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation
to
accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and
more.
Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard
work
you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot
of work
and new features are no small thing. I am not really a
programmer so
I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a
need or
desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza
@marke
r.es> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is
no
realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable
width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more
complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I
couldn't say
if
the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the
person who
posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the
pressure is
greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or
would
the
variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that
the
number
of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with
Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so
he can
discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for
Pencil
tool
using powerstroke?
--------------------------------------------------- --------
------
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If they say that, at least we'd know what they are talking about.
That as apposed to "The stroke is crap!" - Which could be any one of a hundred non-brush related problems. :)
Well, I would not propose calling it a "stroke". Maybe "stroke profile"? ("stroke tip", "stroke nib", "stroke shape", "quill"??) Anything to avoid confusing it with raster brushes.
"Why don't you have a so and so brush, like all the other paint programs?"
We don't want wishlist items anymore? Also, would be a great place to
put custom brushes. Currently, our users have to jump through some invisible hoops to get a shape to flow like a brush stroke. This has needed a proper dialogue for a while, and this is the perfect opportunity to give it one.
That was a little bit changing the subject. My point is that Inkscape is not a paint program. They would be expecting the same thing from a vector brush that they get (or can do) with a raster brush. Inkscape is not a paint program, and I would not be happy with a bigger opportunity for confusion about that. We in the support areas already deal with the raster vs vector issue at least weekly (on average, although it tends to come in waves).
So if it's called something besides "brush" it would reduce this confusion.
The thing is, with Jabier's brush system, you may be actually be able
to do these things in the near future.
Really? It's going to be possible to convert a raster brush to a vector brush? And make it work and look the same? ("I imported my brush into Inkscape, but it doesn't work right!" "Inkscape broke my brush!")
Also, when people do compare, we can immediately point out the
advantages of Inkscape vector brushes vs. GIMP brushes - just have them zoom in. :) They'll get it right away.
"we"?? I'll let you write the FAQ item which will certainly be needed, even if it were called something different from "brushes".
You aren't seriously suggesting that we can explain the difference between raster and vector by telling users to zoom in? Even the most simplified version (of the webpage we've been needing for so long) would have 4 bullet points (although it ranges up to 10, depending who you talk to).
The thing is, they won't just compare. They won't post something like "I noticed something is different. Why?" They'll post things like the examples I've given. They will think something is broken.
Despite your reluctance, I would still encourage an effort to come up with some different name which implies a brush, but can't be confused with traditional raster brushes.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Monday, September 04, 2017 6:06 AM To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Well, I'm just thinking of it in terms of providing support. If they are called brushes, then pretty soon, we're getting messages like "your brushes are crap, why don't you make them work like all the other brushes in the world".
If they say that, at least we'd know what they are talking about. That as apposed to "The stroke is crap!" - Which could be any one of a hundred non-brush related problems. :)
"Why don't you have a so and so brush, like all the other paint programs?"
We don't want wishlist items anymore? Also, would be a great place to put custom brushes. Currently, our users have to jump through some invisible hoops to get a shape to flow like a brush stroke. This has needed a proper dialogue for a while, and this is the perfect opportunity to give it one.
"Why can't I import the brush I made in GIMP into Inkscape?" And etc. (We actually had the latter question in a forum, a few years ago!)
The thing is, with Jabier's brush system, you may be actually be able to do these things in the near future. If we make up new names for things just to prevent comparisons and user questions, we sacrifice discover-ability, and also wishlist items that make the brush system more versatile and easier to use.
No doubt we get all sorts of questions about raster transformations from people who are new to a vector editor. This is not a good enough reason to change common terminology between the programs, it is a good opportunity to educate people on the differences between vector and raster editors.
A vector brush is still a brush, just as a raster brush is still a brush. The functionality is identical to the user, and so should the terminology.
Also, when people do compare, we can immediately point out the advantages of Inkscape vector brushes vs. GIMP brushes - just have them zoom in. :) They'll get it right away.
-C
If we call them something that more reflects the vector-ness, then we don't have that problem. I'm afraid that people will compare them to raster brushes, and they just aren't the same. They're similar, but so very different, at the same time.
In many other areas, Inkscape has created its own terminology...or used SVG terminology. Inkscape calls "nodes" what other programs call "points", as a prominent example. Inkscape calls 'paths" what other programs call "lines".
I wonder if we could look to SVG (standards) to guide the terminology...somehow?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 1:31 AM To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Does Inkscape really strive to be a vector-brush drawing program?? Isn't that like saying "vector paint program"?
Inkscape is a vector drawing program. In previous threads, we expanded the term "drawing" to encompass, well pretty much anything. :) Why limit Inkscape's vector capabilities because it doesn't fit a particular definition of "drawing"?
I've really seen the term brush used more and more lately, in reference to Inkscape, and in what I consider to be an inappropriate way. Inkscape can achieve brush-like effects, with great effort. But unless there really is some plan to actually add true brushes, and develop Inkscape in that direction, I think we should discourage using that term. It gives a false impression of Inkscape capabilities, imo.
The term "brush" is used because that's what the effect is. Inkscape already has vector brushes in the Caligraphy tool. It's important to use terminology that users are familiar with. Saves a lot of explaining, just to be told "well, why didn't you call them brushes" like everyone else? :) I brush (in all graphics programs) refers to a shape applied along a path with added transformations. The effect is that it acts like a brush, so the term brush is appropriate here as well as in other drawing/painting/editing applications.
As it's referred to on the Pen and Pencil control bars, I think Shapes is better, referring to the profile of the stroke. Shapes, or maybe even "stroke profiles".
Or we could call them "brushes" like everyone else does, and spare the user the technical jargon we make up. :) Our "stroke profiles" are analogous to "brushes" in other programs. So when people ask "does Inkscape have brushes?" And we hit them with "no, but we have stroke profiles." Yea... let's just call them brushes like everyone else does, for the same reasons everyone else does. :)
Referring to a different comment in this thread, I didn't intend to "bash" GIMP earlier.
That comment was in regard to the remark "There's something good in GIMP?" - Don't do this, people. GIMP project are our friends, and you'll make none here by belittling another projects hard work.
I just dislike the interface, as a personal opinion.
We are not talking about GIMP's whole interface (as if one could write it all off as "bad" or something). Someone is mocking up wireframes based on how GIMP handles brushes. That's what sparked the GIMP comments... and people keep derailing the conversation. GIMP's entire user interface is not within the scope of this thread. Let's see where the wireframes go before denouncing it because it might look kinda like how GIMP does it.
There's every chance it's an effective interface for a raster program. But I don't think it would be effective for Inkscape.
No one is suggesting copying GIMPs whole user interface. :P
What's wrong with the Shapes menu, to hold the stroke profiles or so-called "brushes"?
"Where are the brushes in Inkscape" "They are in the 'Shapes Menu'."
Nah, not feeling it, personally. ;) Most everything in Inkscape is a "shape". Say "Brush", and people will know what you are talking about right away.
No need to reinvent the wheel here from my perspective. We could call them "vector brushes" like Krita does. It's important to stick with terms that are analogous to real life terms that are similar to the functionality. It makes learning and recall easier, and thus more intuitive.
-C
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 2:39 AM To: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz Cc: inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I think breaking out the brushes and effects into a dialog of its own is really the only way to go. I've not encountered a single graphics program out there which handles many (potentially customisable) brushes that doesn't have it's own side-panel/dock for the brush pallet. It really MUST happen at some point for Inkscape to become a better vector-brush drawing program.
Thanks to all for the hard work on this, esp Jabier! -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
Hi all.
As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the caligraphic tool than for the pencil tool.
Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not pressent in Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to do but we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in calligraphic tool.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote:
Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than Expression for simple lines !
ivan
Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3394... .es> a écrit :
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote: > Hi All, > I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking if > the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature so > here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and > find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the coolest > features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I have > been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying > inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure > sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for > manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly > important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in > Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works > nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line > needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be > redrawn. > > The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may > require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot > of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via > pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it would > not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use > the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a 100% > representation of the final product, it would guide the user to > understand how much pressure they are applying. > > I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of > reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line > work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing feature, > maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as > well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate? > > Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase or > decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main > path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the width > of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a > variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and > applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be increases > or decreased. > > Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34 > > Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: http s://yo > utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144 > > That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the brush > size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation to > accomplish this effect in Inkscape. > > > https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97 > > > I think that covers what I was originally asking about and more. > Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard work > you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot of work > and new features are no small thing. I am not really a programmer so > I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a need or > desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help! > > Manga line example that I did not draw: > > > If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! > -Nate > > > > > > > > -- > Nate > > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza @marke > r.es> wrote: > > I wait he present to the list to reply. > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote: > > > > Hi Brynn. > > > > > > Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no > > > realtime > > > preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable > > width. > > > > > > Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex. > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > ________________________________________________ > > > > > > Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say > > if > > > the lack of > > > live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who > > > posted the > > > message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments. > > > > > > How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is > > > greater? And > > > then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would > > the > > > variable > > > width be immediately evident when the path is finished? > > > > > > And it would only work with graphics tablets? > > > > > > One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the > > number > > > of nodes > > > probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy. > > > > > > Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can > > > discuss > > > directly. > > > > > > All best,, > > > brynn > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Jabier Arraiza > > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM > > > To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel > > > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil > > tool > > > using > > > powerstroke? > > >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > ------------- > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > _______________________________________________ > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > > >
>
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People in this thread are already calling them brushes, so it's natural to call them brushes. They act like brushes, and they are in-fact vector brushes, equivalent in every way to vector brushes in other applications. :)
I'm not in favour of changing the name we've already started using, and is common terminology for what's used elsewhere in the graphics industry, just to prevent questions people will have anyway,
Anyone else in favour of calling them something other than brushes, feel free to speak up.
-C
On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 11:50 AM, brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:
If they say that, at least we'd know what they are talking about.
That as apposed to "The stroke is crap!" - Which could be any one of a hundred non-brush related problems. :)
Well, I would not propose calling it a "stroke". Maybe "stroke profile"? ("stroke tip", "stroke nib", "stroke shape", "quill"??) Anything to avoid confusing it with raster brushes.
"Why don't you have a so and so brush, like all the other paint programs?"
We don't want wishlist items anymore? Also, would be a great place to
put custom brushes. Currently, our users have to jump through some invisible hoops to get a shape to flow like a brush stroke. This has needed a proper dialogue for a while, and this is the perfect opportunity to give it one.
That was a little bit changing the subject. My point is that Inkscape is not a paint program. They would be expecting the same thing from a vector brush that they get (or can do) with a raster brush. Inkscape is not a paint program, and I would not be happy with a bigger opportunity for confusion about that. We in the support areas already deal with the raster vs vector issue at least weekly (on average, although it tends to come in waves).
So if it's called something besides "brush" it would reduce this confusion.
The thing is, with Jabier's brush system, you may be actually be able
to do these things in the near future.
Really? It's going to be possible to convert a raster brush to a vector brush? And make it work and look the same? ("I imported my brush into Inkscape, but it doesn't work right!" "Inkscape broke my brush!")
Also, when people do compare, we can immediately point out the
advantages of Inkscape vector brushes vs. GIMP brushes - just have them zoom in. :) They'll get it right away.
"we"?? I'll let you write the FAQ item which will certainly be needed, even if it were called something different from "brushes".
You aren't seriously suggesting that we can explain the difference between raster and vector by telling users to zoom in? Even the most simplified version (of the webpage we've been needing for so long) would have 4 bullet points (although it ranges up to 10, depending who you talk to).
The thing is, they won't just compare. They won't post something like "I noticed something is different. Why?" They'll post things like the examples I've given. They will think something is broken.
Despite your reluctance, I would still encourage an effort to come up with some different name which implies a brush, but can't be confused with traditional raster brushes.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Monday, September 04, 2017 6:06 AM
To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Well, I'm just thinking of it in terms of providing support. If they are called brushes, then pretty soon, we're getting messages like "your brushes are crap, why don't you make them work like all the other brushes in the world".
If they say that, at least we'd know what they are talking about. That as apposed to "The stroke is crap!" - Which could be any one of a hundred non-brush related problems. :)
"Why don't you have a so and so brush, like all the other paint programs?"
We don't want wishlist items anymore? Also, would be a great place to put custom brushes. Currently, our users have to jump through some invisible hoops to get a shape to flow like a brush stroke. This has needed a proper dialogue for a while, and this is the perfect opportunity to give it one.
"Why can't I import the brush I made in GIMP into Inkscape?" And etc. (We actually had the latter question in a forum, a few years ago!)
The thing is, with Jabier's brush system, you may be actually be able to do these things in the near future. If we make up new names for things just to prevent comparisons and user questions, we sacrifice discover-ability, and also wishlist items that make the brush system more versatile and easier to use.
No doubt we get all sorts of questions about raster transformations from people who are new to a vector editor. This is not a good enough reason to change common terminology between the programs, it is a good opportunity to educate people on the differences between vector and raster editors.
A vector brush is still a brush, just as a raster brush is still a brush. The functionality is identical to the user, and so should the terminology.
Also, when people do compare, we can immediately point out the advantages of Inkscape vector brushes vs. GIMP brushes - just have them zoom in. :) They'll get it right away.
-C
If we call them something that more reflects the vector-ness, then we don't have that problem. I'm afraid that people will compare them to raster brushes, and they just aren't the same. They're similar, but so very different, at the same time.
In many other areas, Inkscape has created its own terminology...or used SVG terminology. Inkscape calls "nodes" what other programs call "points", as a prominent example. Inkscape calls 'paths" what other programs call "lines".
I wonder if we could look to SVG (standards) to guide the terminology...somehow?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 1:31 AM To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Does Inkscape really strive to be a vector-brush drawing program?? Isn't that like saying "vector paint program"?
Inkscape is a vector drawing program. In previous threads, we expanded the term "drawing" to encompass, well pretty much anything. :) Why limit Inkscape's vector capabilities because it doesn't fit a particular definition of "drawing"?
I've really seen the term brush used more and more lately, in reference to Inkscape, and in what I consider to be an inappropriate way. Inkscape can achieve brush-like effects, with great effort. But unless there really is some plan to actually add true brushes, and develop Inkscape in that direction, I think we should discourage using that term. It gives a false impression of Inkscape capabilities, imo.
The term "brush" is used because that's what the effect is. Inkscape already has vector brushes in the Caligraphy tool. It's important to use terminology that users are familiar with. Saves a lot of explaining, just to be told "well, why didn't you call them brushes" like everyone else? :) I brush (in all graphics programs) refers to a shape applied along a path with added transformations. The effect is that it acts like a brush, so the term brush is appropriate here as well as in other drawing/painting/editing applications.
As it's referred to on the Pen and Pencil control bars, I think Shapes is better, referring to the profile of the stroke. Shapes, or maybe even "stroke profiles".
Or we could call them "brushes" like everyone else does, and spare the user the technical jargon we make up. :) Our "stroke profiles" are analogous to "brushes" in other programs. So when people ask "does Inkscape have brushes?" And we hit them with "no, but we have stroke profiles." Yea... let's just call them brushes like everyone else does, for the same reasons everyone else does. :)
Referring to a different comment in this thread, I didn't intend to "bash" GIMP earlier.
That comment was in regard to the remark "There's something good in GIMP?" - Don't do this, people. GIMP project are our friends, and you'll make none here by belittling another projects hard work.
I just dislike the interface, as a personal opinion.
We are not talking about GIMP's whole interface (as if one could write it all off as "bad" or something). Someone is mocking up wireframes based on how GIMP handles brushes. That's what sparked the GIMP comments... and people keep derailing the conversation. GIMP's entire user interface is not within the scope of this thread. Let's see where the wireframes go before denouncing it because it might look kinda like how GIMP does it.
There's every chance it's an effective interface for a raster program. But I don't think it would be effective for Inkscape.
No one is suggesting copying GIMPs whole user interface. :P
What's wrong with the Shapes menu, to hold the stroke profiles or so-called "brushes"?
"Where are the brushes in Inkscape" "They are in the 'Shapes Menu'."
Nah, not feeling it, personally. ;) Most everything in Inkscape is a "shape". Say "Brush", and people will know what you are talking about right away.
No need to reinvent the wheel here from my perspective. We could call them "vector brushes" like Krita does. It's important to stick with terms that are analogous to real life terms that are similar to the functionality. It makes learning and recall easier, and thus more intuitive.
-C
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 2:39 AM To: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz Cc: inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I think breaking out the brushes and effects into a dialog of its own is really the only way to go. I've not encountered a single graphics program out there which handles many (potentially customisable) brushes that doesn't have it's own side-panel/dock for the brush pallet. It really MUST happen at some point for Inkscape to become a better vector-brush drawing program.
Thanks to all for the hard work on this, esp Jabier! -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
Hi all.
As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the caligraphic tool than for the pencil tool.
Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not pressent in Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to do but we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in calligraphic tool.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote: > Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than > Expression for simple lines ! > > ivan > > > Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...233.....3394... > .es> a écrit : > > > Hi all! > > This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge > request. > Here are a preview of the new branch running: > https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure > > All the best, Jabier. > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote: > > Hi All, > > I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just > asking if > > the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a > feature so > > here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program > and > > find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the > coolest > > features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I > have > > been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying > > inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure > > sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver > for > > manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is > incredibly > > important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in > > Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works > > nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the > line > > needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to > be > > redrawn. > > > > The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state > may > > require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a > lot > > of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width > via > > pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it > would > > not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could > use > > the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't > a 100% > > representation of the final product, it would guide the user to > > understand how much pressure they are applying. > > > > I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit > of > > reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed > line > > work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing > feature, > > maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines > as > > well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate? > > > > Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to > increase or > > decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from > main > > path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the > width > > of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a > > variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure > and > > applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be > increases > > or decreased. > > > > Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34 > > > > Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: http > s://yo > > utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144 > > > > That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the > brush > > size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation > to > > accomplish this effect in Inkscape. > > > > > > https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97 > > > > > > I think that covers what I was originally asking about and > more. > > Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard > work > > you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot > of work > > and new features are no small thing. I am not really a > programmer so > > I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a > need or > > desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help! > > > > Manga line example that I did not draw: > > > > > > If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! > > -Nate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Nate > > > > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza > @marke > > r.es> wrote: > > > I wait he present to the list to reply. > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote: > > > > > Hi Brynn. > > > > > > > > Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is > no > > > > realtime > > > > preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable > > > width. > > > > > > > > Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more > complex. > > > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > ________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I > couldn't say > > > if > > > > the lack of > > > > live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the > person who > > > > posted the > > > > message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments. > > > > > > > > How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the > pressure is > > > > greater? And > > > > then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or > would > > > the > > > > variable > > > > width be immediately evident when the path is finished? > > > > > > > > And it would only work with graphics tablets? > > > > > > > > One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that > the > > > number > > > > of nodes > > > > probably would not build up so fast, as it does with > Calligraphy. > > > > > > > > Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so > he can > > > > discuss > > > > directly. > > > > > > > > All best,, > > > > brynn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Jabier Arraiza > > > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM > > > > To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel > > > > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for > Pencil > > > tool > > > > using > > > > powerstroke? > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > > > ------------- > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's > most > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot______ > _________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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On Wednesday 6 September 2017 4:20:33 PM IST brynn wrote:
Well, I would not propose calling it a "stroke". Maybe "stroke profile"? ("stroke tip", "stroke nib", "stroke shape", "quill"??)
May I ask what this tool does, does it draw a stroke or a filled vector shape. If it draws a filled vector shape isn't calling it a stroke tip, stroke nib etc be confusing?
Anything to avoid confusing it with raster brushes.
I would vote for "brush tool" but if you think our majority of users don't understand the difference between raster program and vector program then why not call it "vector brush". And may be have a page with clear and ellaborate difference between vector and raster in the wiki or manual and educate the users by refering it to them.
Educating and improving the users understanding seems good to me, There will always be people who get confused, what we can do is teach them and guide them.
Thank you
+1
On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Raghavendra Kamath <raghu@...3496...> wrote:
On Wednesday 6 September 2017 4:20:33 PM IST brynn wrote:
Well, I would not propose calling it a "stroke". Maybe "stroke profile"? ("stroke tip", "stroke nib", "stroke shape", "quill"??)
May I ask what this tool does, does it draw a stroke or a filled vector shape. If it draws a filled vector shape isn't calling it a stroke tip, stroke nib etc be confusing?
Anything to avoid confusing it with raster brushes.
I would vote for "brush tool" but if you think our majority of users don't understand the difference between raster program and vector program then why not call it "vector brush". And may be have a page with clear and ellaborate difference between vector and raster in the wiki or manual and educate the users by refering it to them.
Educating and improving the users understanding seems good to me, There will always be people who get confused, what we can do is teach them and guide them.
Thank you
-- Raghavendra Kamath Illustrator raghukamath.com
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I'm starting a new mailing list thread on improving the faq with pictures, diagrams, etc. to help Brynn and other Inkscape question gurus in the forum trenches. Let's keep this thread clear for Jabier's UI UX questions.
-C
On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 2:07 PM, C R <cajhne@...400...> wrote:
+1
On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Raghavendra Kamath <raghu@...3496...> wrote:
On Wednesday 6 September 2017 4:20:33 PM IST brynn wrote:
Well, I would not propose calling it a "stroke". Maybe "stroke profile"? ("stroke tip", "stroke nib", "stroke shape", "quill"??)
May I ask what this tool does, does it draw a stroke or a filled vector shape. If it draws a filled vector shape isn't calling it a stroke tip, stroke nib etc be confusing?
Anything to avoid confusing it with raster brushes.
I would vote for "brush tool" but if you think our majority of users don't understand the difference between raster program and vector program then why not call it "vector brush". And may be have a page with clear and ellaborate difference between vector and raster in the wiki or manual and educate the users by refering it to them.
Educating and improving the users understanding seems good to me, There will always be people who get confused, what we can do is teach them and guide them.
Thank you
-- Raghavendra Kamath Illustrator raghukamath.com
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That was a little bit changing the subject. My point is that Inkscape is not a paint program.
It's not a raster-paint program. These new brushes will (and have already) added some vector painting functionality to it.
They would be expecting the same thing from a vector brush that they get (or can do) with a raster brush.
"They" (new users) expect all sorts of things. Once you get to know a vector editing program, you don't expect a 1 to 1 translation of raster to vector.
Inkscape is not a paint program.
And yet, we are adding brushes. :)
and I would not be happy with a bigger opportunity for confusion about that.
Changing the name will have no effect on the confusion. Call it something else (even though it looks like a brush stroke), and you'll still get the same questions: Why don't my colours mix?
We in the support areas already deal with the raster vs vector issue at least weekly (on average, although it tends to come in waves).
And you point them to the FAQ on raster vs vector. Why can't this be done with raster vs. vector brushes?
So if it's called something besides "brush" it would reduce this confusion.
I really don't think so. If the confusion is about raster vs vector, changing a name I'd expect will make no difference at all.
to do these things in the near future.
Really? It's going to be possible to convert a raster brush to a vector brush? And make it work and look the same? ("I imported my brush into Inkscape, but it doesn't work right!" "Inkscape broke my brush!")
Don't know that, but I do know ways in which some conversion can be done. Maybe the result will not be good enough for some, maybe it's the best thing in the world. Maybe it will make GIMP's low-res brushes even better. Who knows.... but why don't we wait and see? :)
Also, when people do compare, we can immediately point out the
advantages of Inkscape vector brushes vs. GIMP brushes - just have them zoom in. :) They'll get it right away.
"we"?? I'll let you write the FAQ item which will certainly be needed, even if it were called something different from "brushes".
You aren't seriously suggesting that we can explain the difference between raster and vector by telling users to zoom in? Even the most simplified version (of the webpage we've been needing for so long) would have 4 bullet points (although it ranges up to 10, depending who you talk to).
So we don't have a FAQ entry for this... yes, I'll be happy to help there Brynn. :) And (regarding the zoom) yes. It's quite common to explain vector vs raster this way, both online tutorials and in graphics classrooms. When vector and raster was first explained to me very early in my graphics education, it helped to show a section of curve in raster at 400% and vector at 400% so you can see the pixel edge. I've seen countless instances of this all over the internet... in fact I've never seen one that didn't use zooming in to the edge as an example. People tend to get that right away, because they've noticed the pixels before, and they are annoying. :) They likely have never considered that you can zoom in to 400% on vector shapes and still have a smooth edge. That's a big eye-opener, and shows the power of vector over raster images. In GIMP, many of the brushes aren't high enough resolution for larger brushes... Inkscape brushes would not have this issue. So we have an opportunity to show the advantages (as well as disadvantages) of vector brushes over regular raster brushes.
The thing is, they won't just compare. They won't post something like "I noticed something is different. Why?" They'll post things like the examples I've given. They will think something is broken.
I'll include it in the raster vs vector FAQ entry if it turns out to be that big of a deal. Converting raster images to vector is also possible in Inkscape, so it's not even outside the scope of what Inkscape does. If out of our millions of users, you answer one question a week about raster vs vector as you've indicated, I'd classify that as "not a big deal". :)
Just part of the learning process.
-C
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Monday, September 04, 2017 6:06 AM
To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Well, I'm just thinking of it in terms of providing support. If they are called brushes, then pretty soon, we're getting messages like "your brushes are crap, why don't you make them work like all the other brushes in the world".
If they say that, at least we'd know what they are talking about. That as apposed to "The stroke is crap!" - Which could be any one of a hundred non-brush related problems. :)
"Why don't you have a so and so brush, like all the other paint programs?"
We don't want wishlist items anymore? Also, would be a great place to put custom brushes. Currently, our users have to jump through some invisible hoops to get a shape to flow like a brush stroke. This has needed a proper dialogue for a while, and this is the perfect opportunity to give it one.
"Why can't I import the brush I made in GIMP into Inkscape?" And etc. (We actually had the latter question in a forum, a few years ago!)
The thing is, with Jabier's brush system, you may be actually be able to do these things in the near future. If we make up new names for things just to prevent comparisons and user questions, we sacrifice discover-ability, and also wishlist items that make the brush system more versatile and easier to use.
No doubt we get all sorts of questions about raster transformations from people who are new to a vector editor. This is not a good enough reason to change common terminology between the programs, it is a good opportunity to educate people on the differences between vector and raster editors.
A vector brush is still a brush, just as a raster brush is still a brush. The functionality is identical to the user, and so should the terminology.
Also, when people do compare, we can immediately point out the advantages of Inkscape vector brushes vs. GIMP brushes - just have them zoom in. :) They'll get it right away.
-C
If we call them something that more reflects the vector-ness, then we don't have that problem. I'm afraid that people will compare them to raster brushes, and they just aren't the same. They're similar, but so very different, at the same time.
In many other areas, Inkscape has created its own terminology...or used SVG terminology. Inkscape calls "nodes" what other programs call "points", as a prominent example. Inkscape calls 'paths" what other programs call "lines".
I wonder if we could look to SVG (standards) to guide the terminology...somehow?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 1:31 AM To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Does Inkscape really strive to be a vector-brush drawing program?? Isn't that like saying "vector paint program"?
Inkscape is a vector drawing program. In previous threads, we expanded the term "drawing" to encompass, well pretty much anything. :) Why limit Inkscape's vector capabilities because it doesn't fit a particular definition of "drawing"?
I've really seen the term brush used more and more lately, in reference to Inkscape, and in what I consider to be an inappropriate way. Inkscape can achieve brush-like effects, with great effort. But unless there really is some plan to actually add true brushes, and develop Inkscape in that direction, I think we should discourage using that term. It gives a false impression of Inkscape capabilities, imo.
The term "brush" is used because that's what the effect is. Inkscape already has vector brushes in the Caligraphy tool. It's important to use terminology that users are familiar with. Saves a lot of explaining, just to be told "well, why didn't you call them brushes" like everyone else? :) I brush (in all graphics programs) refers to a shape applied along a path with added transformations. The effect is that it acts like a brush, so the term brush is appropriate here as well as in other drawing/painting/editing applications.
As it's referred to on the Pen and Pencil control bars, I think Shapes is better, referring to the profile of the stroke. Shapes, or maybe even "stroke profiles".
Or we could call them "brushes" like everyone else does, and spare the user the technical jargon we make up. :) Our "stroke profiles" are analogous to "brushes" in other programs. So when people ask "does Inkscape have brushes?" And we hit them with "no, but we have stroke profiles." Yea... let's just call them brushes like everyone else does, for the same reasons everyone else does. :)
Referring to a different comment in this thread, I didn't intend to "bash" GIMP earlier.
That comment was in regard to the remark "There's something good in GIMP?" - Don't do this, people. GIMP project are our friends, and you'll make none here by belittling another projects hard work.
I just dislike the interface, as a personal opinion.
We are not talking about GIMP's whole interface (as if one could write it all off as "bad" or something). Someone is mocking up wireframes based on how GIMP handles brushes. That's what sparked the GIMP comments... and people keep derailing the conversation. GIMP's entire user interface is not within the scope of this thread. Let's see where the wireframes go before denouncing it because it might look kinda like how GIMP does it.
There's every chance it's an effective interface for a raster program. But I don't think it would be effective for Inkscape.
No one is suggesting copying GIMPs whole user interface. :P
What's wrong with the Shapes menu, to hold the stroke profiles or so-called "brushes"?
"Where are the brushes in Inkscape" "They are in the 'Shapes Menu'."
Nah, not feeling it, personally. ;) Most everything in Inkscape is a "shape". Say "Brush", and people will know what you are talking about right away.
No need to reinvent the wheel here from my perspective. We could call them "vector brushes" like Krita does. It's important to stick with terms that are analogous to real life terms that are similar to the functionality. It makes learning and recall easier, and thus more intuitive.
-C
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 2:39 AM To: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz Cc: inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I think breaking out the brushes and effects into a dialog of its own is really the only way to go. I've not encountered a single graphics program out there which handles many (potentially customisable) brushes that doesn't have it's own side-panel/dock for the brush pallet. It really MUST happen at some point for Inkscape to become a better vector-brush drawing program.
Thanks to all for the hard work on this, esp Jabier! -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
Hi all.
As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the caligraphic tool than for the pencil tool.
Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not pressent in Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to do but we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in calligraphic tool.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote: > Very convincing ! And there we have even more control than > Expression for simple lines ! > > ivan > > > Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...233.....3394... > .es> a écrit : > > > Hi all! > > This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge > request. > Here are a preview of the new branch running: > https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure > > All the best, Jabier. > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote: > > Hi All, > > I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just > asking if > > the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a > feature so > > here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program > and > > find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the > coolest > > features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I > have > > been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying > > inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure > > sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver > for > > manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is > incredibly > > important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in > > Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works > > nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the > line > > needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to > be > > redrawn. > > > > The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state > may > > require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a > lot > > of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width > via > > pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it > would > > not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could > use > > the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't > a 100% > > representation of the final product, it would guide the user to > > understand how much pressure they are applying. > > > > I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit > of > > reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed > line > > work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing > feature, > > maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines > as > > well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate? > > > > Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to > increase or > > decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from > main > > path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the > width > > of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a > > variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure > and > > applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be > increases > > or decreased. > > > > Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34 > > > > Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: http > s://yo > > utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144 > > > > That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the > brush > > size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation > to > > accomplish this effect in Inkscape. > > > > > > https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97 > > > > > > I think that covers what I was originally asking about and > more. > > Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard > work > > you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot > of work > > and new features are no small thing. I am not really a > programmer so > > I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a > need or > > desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help! > > > > Manga line example that I did not draw: > > > > > > If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! > > -Nate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Nate > > > > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza > @marke > > r.es> wrote: > > > I wait he present to the list to reply. > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote: > > > > > Hi Brynn. > > > > > > > > Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is > no > > > > realtime > > > > preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable > > > width. > > > > > > > > Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more > complex. > > > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > ________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I > couldn't say > > > if > > > > the lack of > > > > live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the > person who > > > > posted the > > > > message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments. > > > > > > > > How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the > pressure is > > > > greater? And > > > > then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or > would > > > the > > > > variable > > > > width be immediately evident when the path is finished? > > > > > > > > And it would only work with graphics tablets? > > > > > > > > One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that > the > > > number > > > > of nodes > > > > probably would not build up so fast, as it does with > Calligraphy. > > > > > > > > Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so > he can > > > > discuss > > > > directly. > > > > > > > > All best,, > > > > brynn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Jabier Arraiza > > > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM > > > > To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel > > > > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for > Pencil > > > tool > > > > using > > > > powerstroke? > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > > > ------------- > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's > most > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot______ > _________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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Hi all,
I want to have bitmap and vectors brushes. Like expression do with skeletal strokes.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Wed, 2017-09-06 at 04:50 -0600, brynn wrote:
If they say that, at least we'd know what they are talking about.
That as apposed to "The stroke is crap!" - Which could be any one of a hundred non-brush related problems. :)
Well, I would not propose calling it a "stroke". Maybe "stroke profile"? ("stroke tip", "stroke nib", "stroke shape", "quill"??) Anything to avoid confusing it with raster brushes.
"Why don't you have a so and so brush, like all the other paint programs?"
We don't want wishlist items anymore? Also, would be a great place to
put custom brushes. Currently, our users have to jump through some invisible hoops to get a shape to flow like a brush stroke. This has needed a proper dialogue for a while, and this is the perfect opportunity to give it one.
That was a little bit changing the subject. My point is that Inkscape is not a paint program. They would be expecting the same thing from a vector brush that they get (or can do) with a raster brush. Inkscape is not a paint program, and I would not be happy with a bigger opportunity for confusion about that. We in the support areas already deal with the raster vs vector issue at least weekly (on average, although it tends to come in waves).
So if it's called something besides "brush" it would reduce this confusion.
The thing is, with Jabier's brush system, you may be actually be able
to do these things in the near future.
Really? It's going to be possible to convert a raster brush to a vector brush? And make it work and look the same? ("I imported my brush into Inkscape, but it doesn't work right!" "Inkscape broke my brush!")
Also, when people do compare, we can immediately point out the
advantages of Inkscape vector brushes vs. GIMP brushes - just have them zoom in. :) They'll get it right away.
"we"?? I'll let you write the FAQ item which will certainly be needed, even if it were called something different from "brushes".
You aren't seriously suggesting that we can explain the difference between raster and vector by telling users to zoom in? Even the most simplified version (of the webpage we've been needing for so long) would have 4 bullet points (although it ranges up to 10, depending who you talk to).
The thing is, they won't just compare. They won't post something like "I noticed something is different. Why?" They'll post things like the examples I've given. They will think something is broken.
Despite your reluctance, I would still encourage an effort to come up with some different name which implies a brush, but can't be confused with traditional raster brushes.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Monday, September 04, 2017 6:06 AM To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Well, I'm just thinking of it in terms of providing support. If they are called brushes, then pretty soon, we're getting messages like "your brushes are crap, why don't you make them work like all the other brushes in the world".
If they say that, at least we'd know what they are talking about. That as apposed to "The stroke is crap!" - Which could be any one of a hundred non-brush related problems. :)
"Why don't you have a so and so brush, like all the other paint programs?"
We don't want wishlist items anymore? Also, would be a great place to put custom brushes. Currently, our users have to jump through some invisible hoops to get a shape to flow like a brush stroke. This has needed a proper dialogue for a while, and this is the perfect opportunity to give it one.
"Why can't I import the brush I made in GIMP into Inkscape?" And etc. (We actually had the latter question in a forum, a few years ago!)
The thing is, with Jabier's brush system, you may be actually be able to do these things in the near future. If we make up new names for things just to prevent comparisons and user questions, we sacrifice discover-ability, and also wishlist items that make the brush system more versatile and easier to use.
No doubt we get all sorts of questions about raster transformations from people who are new to a vector editor. This is not a good enough reason to change common terminology between the programs, it is a good opportunity to educate people on the differences between vector and raster editors.
A vector brush is still a brush, just as a raster brush is still a brush. The functionality is identical to the user, and so should the terminology.
Also, when people do compare, we can immediately point out the advantages of Inkscape vector brushes vs. GIMP brushes - just have them zoom in. :) They'll get it right away.
-C
If we call them something that more reflects the vector-ness, then we don't have that problem. I'm afraid that people will compare them to raster brushes, and they just aren't the same. They're similar, but so very different, at the same time.
In many other areas, Inkscape has created its own terminology...or used SVG terminology. Inkscape calls "nodes" what other programs call "points", as a prominent example. Inkscape calls 'paths" what other programs call "lines".
I wonder if we could look to SVG (standards) to guide the terminology...somehow?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 1:31 AM To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Does Inkscape really strive to be a vector-brush drawing program?? Isn't that like saying "vector paint program"?
Inkscape is a vector drawing program. In previous threads, we expanded the term "drawing" to encompass, well pretty much anything. :) Why limit Inkscape's vector capabilities because it doesn't fit a particular definition of "drawing"?
I've really seen the term brush used more and more lately, in reference to Inkscape, and in what I consider to be an inappropriate way. Inkscape can achieve brush-like effects, with great effort. But unless there really is some plan to actually add true brushes, and develop Inkscape in that direction, I think we should discourage using that term. It gives a false impression of Inkscape capabilities, imo.
The term "brush" is used because that's what the effect is. Inkscape already has vector brushes in the Caligraphy tool. It's important to use terminology that users are familiar with. Saves a lot of explaining, just to be told "well, why didn't you call them brushes" like everyone else? :) I brush (in all graphics programs) refers to a shape applied along a path with added transformations. The effect is that it acts like a brush, so the term brush is appropriate here as well as in other drawing/painting/editing applications.
As it's referred to on the Pen and Pencil control bars, I think Shapes is better, referring to the profile of the stroke. Shapes, or maybe even "stroke profiles".
Or we could call them "brushes" like everyone else does, and spare the user the technical jargon we make up. :) Our "stroke profiles" are analogous to "brushes" in other programs. So when people ask "does Inkscape have brushes?" And we hit them with "no, but we have stroke profiles." Yea... let's just call them brushes like everyone else does, for the same reasons everyone else does. :)
Referring to a different comment in this thread, I didn't intend to "bash" GIMP earlier.
That comment was in regard to the remark "There's something good in GIMP?" - Don't do this, people. GIMP project are our friends, and you'll make none here by belittling another projects hard work.
I just dislike the interface, as a personal opinion.
We are not talking about GIMP's whole interface (as if one could write it all off as "bad" or something). Someone is mocking up wireframes based on how GIMP handles brushes. That's what sparked the GIMP comments... and people keep derailing the conversation. GIMP's entire user interface is not within the scope of this thread. Let's see where the wireframes go before denouncing it because it might look kinda like how GIMP does it.
There's every chance it's an effective interface for a raster program. But I don't think it would be effective for Inkscape.
No one is suggesting copying GIMPs whole user interface. :P
What's wrong with the Shapes menu, to hold the stroke profiles or so-called "brushes"?
"Where are the brushes in Inkscape" "They are in the 'Shapes Menu'."
Nah, not feeling it, personally. ;) Most everything in Inkscape is a "shape". Say "Brush", and people will know what you are talking about right away.
No need to reinvent the wheel here from my perspective. We could call them "vector brushes" like Krita does. It's important to stick with terms that are analogous to real life terms that are similar to the functionality. It makes learning and recall easier, and thus more intuitive.
-C
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 2:39 AM To: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz Cc: inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I think breaking out the brushes and effects into a dialog of its own is really the only way to go. I've not encountered a single graphics program out there which handles many (potentially customisable) brushes that doesn't have it's own side-panel/dock for the brush pallet. It really MUST happen at some point for Inkscape to become a better vector-brush drawing program.
Thanks to all for the hard work on this, esp Jabier! -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
Hi all.
As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the caligraphic tool than for the pencil tool.
Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not pressent in Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to do but we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in calligraphic tool.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3603... m> wrote:
I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a suggestion. You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that while stroking.
On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel wrote: > Very convincing ! And there we have even more control > than > Expression for simple lines ! > > ivan > > > Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiz > a@...3394... > .es> a écrit : > > > Hi all! > > This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for > merge > request. > Here are a preview of the new branch running: > https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure > > All the best, Jabier. > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote: > > Hi All, > > I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started > > just > > asking if > > the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it > > as a > > feature so > > here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the > > program > > and > > find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one > > of the > > coolest > > features and I am having a lot of fun playing around > > with it. I > > have > > been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already > > enjoying > > inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about > > pressure > > sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time > > saver > > for > > manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is > > incredibly > > important. It seems like all of the features actually > > exist in > > Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy > > pen works > > nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but > > if the > > line > > needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically > > need to > > be > > redrawn. > > > > The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current > > state > > may > > require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if > > there are a > > lot > > of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke > > width > > via > > pressure would make it a very smooth process. > > Unfortunately it > > would > > not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe > > it could > > use > > the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if > > that isn't > > a 100% > > representation of the final product, it would guide the > > user to > > understand how much pressure they are applying. > > > > I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the > > benefit > > of > > reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast > > smoothed > > line > > work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a > > smoothing > > feature, > > maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer > > lines > > as > > well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample > > rate? > > > > Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way > > to > > increase or > > decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes > > from > > main > > path. In essence it would be like increasing or > > decreasing the > > width > > of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen > > using a > > variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen > > pressure > > and > > applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke > > to be > > increases > > or decreased. > > > > Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9 > > Y34 > > > > Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity > > options: http > > s://yo > > utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144 > > > > That same tool in adobe also has settings to > > control/limit the > > brush > > size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and > > fixation > > to > > accomplish this effect in Inkscape. > > > > > > https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97 > > > > > > I think that covers what I was originally asking about > > and > > more. > > Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all > > the hard > > work > > you have put into the program! I know this software is > > a lot > > of work > > and new features are no small thing. I am not really a > > programmer so > > I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you > > have a > > need or > > desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to > > help! > > > > Manga line example that I did not draw: > > > > > > If you got through the whole email, thanks for > > listening! > > -Nate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Nate > > > > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza > > <jabier.arraiza > > @marke > > r.es> wrote: > > > I wait he present to the list to reply. > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote: > > > > > Hi Brynn. > > > > > > > > Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The > > > > problem is > > no > > > > realtime > > > > preview, so you need to finish the path to see the > > > > variable > > > > > > width. > > > > > > > > Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is > > > > more > > complex. > > > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > ________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I > > couldn't say > > > if > > > > the lack of > > > > live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get > > > > the > > person who > > > > posted the > > > > message to subscribe to the list, so he can give > > > > comments. > > > > > > > > How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where > > > > the > > pressure is > > > > greater? And > > > > then the artist drags them after the path is > > > > finished? Or > > would > > > the > > > > variable > > > > width be immediately evident when the path is > > > > finished? > > > > > > > > And it would only work with graphics tablets? > > > > > > > > One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would > > > > be that > > the > > > number > > > > of nodes > > > > probably would not build up so fast, as it does > > > > with > > Calligraphy. > > > > > > > > Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to > > > > subscribe so > > he can > > > > discuss > > > > directly. > > > > > > > > All best,, > > > > brynn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Jabier Arraiza > > > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM > > > > To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel > > > > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity > > > > for > > Pencil > > > tool > > > > using > > > > powerstroke? > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > -------- > > ------ > > > ------------- > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > > > world's > > most > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/sl > > > ashdot > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape > > > -devel > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > --------------- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashd > ot______ > _________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-dev > el > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > --------------- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashd > ot > > > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-dev > el
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I want to have bitmap and vectors brushes. Like expression do with skeletal strokes.
Sounds awesome Jabier. I can't wait to see what you come up with! I'm thinking the Brushes dialogue could have tabs, one tab for vector brushes, and another for raster. In both, it would be great to have a preview for each brush to show how the resulting stroke looks.
I also saw this interesting thing: User defined curves that affect the shape of the brush for custom power-curve strokes. Some artists are using these in programs like Affinity Designer to make arrows: https://forum.affinity.serif.com/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-1105-0-5478260...
Having this as a vector brush option would be super useful I think, especially for interesting custom brushes.
-C
Cheers, Jabier.
On Wed, 2017-09-06 at 04:50 -0600, brynn wrote:
If they say that, at least we'd know what they are talking about.
That as apposed to "The stroke is crap!" - Which could be any one of a hundred non-brush related problems. :)
Well, I would not propose calling it a "stroke". Maybe "stroke profile"? ("stroke tip", "stroke nib", "stroke shape", "quill"??) Anything to avoid confusing it with raster brushes.
"Why don't you have a so and so brush, like all the other paint programs?"
We don't want wishlist items anymore? Also, would be a great place to
put custom brushes. Currently, our users have to jump through some invisible hoops to get a shape to flow like a brush stroke. This has needed a proper dialogue for a while, and this is the perfect opportunity to give it one.
That was a little bit changing the subject. My point is that Inkscape is not a paint program. They would be expecting the same thing from a vector brush that they get (or can do) with a raster brush. Inkscape is not a paint program, and I would not be happy with a bigger opportunity for confusion about that. We in the support areas already deal with the raster vs vector issue at least weekly (on average, although it tends to come in waves).
So if it's called something besides "brush" it would reduce this confusion.
The thing is, with Jabier's brush system, you may be actually be able
to do these things in the near future.
Really? It's going to be possible to convert a raster brush to a vector brush? And make it work and look the same? ("I imported my brush into Inkscape, but it doesn't work right!" "Inkscape broke my brush!")
Also, when people do compare, we can immediately point out the
advantages of Inkscape vector brushes vs. GIMP brushes - just have them zoom in. :) They'll get it right away.
"we"?? I'll let you write the FAQ item which will certainly be needed, even if it were called something different from "brushes".
You aren't seriously suggesting that we can explain the difference between raster and vector by telling users to zoom in? Even the most simplified version (of the webpage we've been needing for so long) would have 4 bullet points (although it ranges up to 10, depending who you talk to).
The thing is, they won't just compare. They won't post something like "I noticed something is different. Why?" They'll post things like the examples I've given. They will think something is broken.
Despite your reluctance, I would still encourage an effort to come up with some different name which implies a brush, but can't be confused with traditional raster brushes.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Monday, September 04, 2017 6:06 AM To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Well, I'm just thinking of it in terms of providing support. If they are called brushes, then pretty soon, we're getting messages like "your brushes are crap, why don't you make them work like all the other brushes in the world".
If they say that, at least we'd know what they are talking about. That as apposed to "The stroke is crap!" - Which could be any one of a hundred non-brush related problems. :)
"Why don't you have a so and so brush, like all the other paint programs?"
We don't want wishlist items anymore? Also, would be a great place to put custom brushes. Currently, our users have to jump through some invisible hoops to get a shape to flow like a brush stroke. This has needed a proper dialogue for a while, and this is the perfect opportunity to give it one.
"Why can't I import the brush I made in GIMP into Inkscape?" And etc. (We actually had the latter question in a forum, a few years ago!)
The thing is, with Jabier's brush system, you may be actually be able to do these things in the near future. If we make up new names for things just to prevent comparisons and user questions, we sacrifice discover-ability, and also wishlist items that make the brush system more versatile and easier to use.
No doubt we get all sorts of questions about raster transformations from people who are new to a vector editor. This is not a good enough reason to change common terminology between the programs, it is a good opportunity to educate people on the differences between vector and raster editors.
A vector brush is still a brush, just as a raster brush is still a brush. The functionality is identical to the user, and so should the terminology.
Also, when people do compare, we can immediately point out the advantages of Inkscape vector brushes vs. GIMP brushes - just have them zoom in. :) They'll get it right away.
-C
If we call them something that more reflects the vector-ness, then we don't have that problem. I'm afraid that people will compare them to raster brushes, and they just aren't the same. They're similar, but so very different, at the same time.
In many other areas, Inkscape has created its own terminology...or used SVG terminology. Inkscape calls "nodes" what other programs call "points", as a prominent example. Inkscape calls 'paths" what other programs call "lines".
I wonder if we could look to SVG (standards) to guide the terminology...somehow?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 1:31 AM To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Does Inkscape really strive to be a vector-brush drawing program?? Isn't that like saying "vector paint program"?
Inkscape is a vector drawing program. In previous threads, we expanded the term "drawing" to encompass, well pretty much anything. :) Why limit Inkscape's vector capabilities because it doesn't fit a particular definition of "drawing"?
I've really seen the term brush used more and more lately, in reference to Inkscape, and in what I consider to be an inappropriate way. Inkscape can achieve brush-like effects, with great effort. But unless there really is some plan to actually add true brushes, and develop Inkscape in that direction, I think we should discourage using that term. It gives a false impression of Inkscape capabilities, imo.
The term "brush" is used because that's what the effect is. Inkscape already has vector brushes in the Caligraphy tool. It's important to use terminology that users are familiar with. Saves a lot of explaining, just to be told "well, why didn't you call them brushes" like everyone else? :) I brush (in all graphics programs) refers to a shape applied along a path with added transformations. The effect is that it acts like a brush, so the term brush is appropriate here as well as in other drawing/painting/editing applications.
As it's referred to on the Pen and Pencil control bars, I think Shapes is better, referring to the profile of the stroke. Shapes, or maybe even "stroke profiles".
Or we could call them "brushes" like everyone else does, and spare the user the technical jargon we make up. :) Our "stroke profiles" are analogous to "brushes" in other programs. So when people ask "does Inkscape have brushes?" And we hit them with "no, but we have stroke profiles." Yea... let's just call them brushes like everyone else does, for the same reasons everyone else does. :)
Referring to a different comment in this thread, I didn't intend to "bash" GIMP earlier.
That comment was in regard to the remark "There's something good in GIMP?" - Don't do this, people. GIMP project are our friends, and you'll make none here by belittling another projects hard work.
I just dislike the interface, as a personal opinion.
We are not talking about GIMP's whole interface (as if one could write it all off as "bad" or something). Someone is mocking up wireframes based on how GIMP handles brushes. That's what sparked the GIMP comments... and people keep derailing the conversation. GIMP's entire user interface is not within the scope of this thread. Let's see where the wireframes go before denouncing it because it might look kinda like how GIMP does it.
There's every chance it's an effective interface for a raster program. But I don't think it would be effective for Inkscape.
No one is suggesting copying GIMPs whole user interface. :P
What's wrong with the Shapes menu, to hold the stroke profiles or so-called "brushes"?
"Where are the brushes in Inkscape" "They are in the 'Shapes Menu'."
Nah, not feeling it, personally. ;) Most everything in Inkscape is a "shape". Say "Brush", and people will know what you are talking about right away.
No need to reinvent the wheel here from my perspective. We could call them "vector brushes" like Krita does. It's important to stick with terms that are analogous to real life terms that are similar to the functionality. It makes learning and recall easier, and thus more intuitive.
-C
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 2:39 AM To: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz Cc: inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I think breaking out the brushes and effects into a dialog of its own is really the only way to go. I've not encountered a single graphics program out there which handles many (potentially customisable) brushes that doesn't have it's own side-panel/dock for the brush pallet. It really MUST happen at some point for Inkscape to become a better vector-brush drawing program.
Thanks to all for the hard work on this, esp Jabier! -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
Hi all.
As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the caligraphic tool than for the pencil tool.
Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not pressent in Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to do but we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in calligraphic tool.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here.
It sounds like you are requesting something like the Adobe illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like Inkscape's calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could in fact be a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the brush and the new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe even all. The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's calligraphy brush and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is make that automatic.
The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would also be cool on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size.
Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0
Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking for Miguel?
On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3603... m> wrote: > I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a > suggestion. > You know how you can spray objects and have the path joined > together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that > while > stroking. > > On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel > wrote: > > Very convincing ! And there we have even more control > > than > > Expression for simple lines ! > > > > ivan > > > > > > Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiz > > a@...3394... > > .es> a écrit : > > > > > > Hi all! > > > > This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for > > merge > > request. > > Here are a preview of the new branch running: > > https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure > > > > All the best, Jabier. > > > > > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started > > > just > > > > asking if > > > the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it > > > as a > > > > feature so > > > here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the > > > program > > > > and > > > find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one > > > of the > > > > coolest > > > features and I am having a lot of fun playing around > > > with it. I > > > > have > > > been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already > > > enjoying > > > inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about > > > pressure > > > sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time > > > saver > > > > for > > > manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is > > > > incredibly > > > important. It seems like all of the features actually > > > exist in > > > Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy > > > pen works > > > nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but > > > if the > > > > line > > > needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically > > > need to > > > > be > > > redrawn. > > > > > > The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current > > > state > > > > may > > > require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if > > > there are a > > > > lot > > > of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke > > > width > > > > via > > > pressure would make it a very smooth process. > > > Unfortunately it > > > > would > > > not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe > > > it could > > > > use > > > the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if > > > that isn't > > > > a 100% > > > representation of the final product, it would guide the > > > user to > > > understand how much pressure they are applying. > > > > > > I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the > > > benefit > > > > of > > > reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast > > > smoothed > > > > line > > > work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a > > > smoothing > > > > feature, > > > maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer > > > lines > > > > as > > > well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample > > > rate? > > > > > > Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way > > > to > > > > increase or > > > decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes > > > from > > > > main > > > path. In essence it would be like increasing or > > > decreasing the > > > > width > > > of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen > > > using a > > > variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen > > > pressure > > > > and > > > applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke > > > to be > > > > increases > > > or decreased. > > > > > > Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9 > > > Y34 > > > > > > Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity > > > options: http > > > > s://yo > > > utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144 > > > > > > That same tool in adobe also has settings to > > > control/limit the > > > > brush > > > size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and > > > fixation > > > > to > > > accomplish this effect in Inkscape. > > > > > > > > > https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97 > > > > > > > > > I think that covers what I was originally asking about > > > and > > > > more. > > > Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all > > > the hard > > > > work > > > you have put into the program! I know this software is > > > a lot > > > > of work > > > and new features are no small thing. I am not really a > > > > programmer so > > > I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you > > > have a > > > > need or > > > desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to > > > help! > > > > > > Manga line example that I did not draw: > > > > > > > > > If you got through the whole email, thanks for > > > listening! > > > -Nate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Nate > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza > > > <jabier.arraiza > > > > @marke > > > r.es> wrote: > > > > I wait he present to the list to reply. > > > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote: > > > > > > Hi Brynn. > > > > > > > > > > Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The > > > > > problem is > > > > no > > > > > realtime > > > > > preview, so you need to finish the path to see the > > > > > variable > > > > > > > > width. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is > > > > > more > > > > complex. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > > ________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I > > > > couldn't say > > > > if > > > > > the lack of > > > > > live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get > > > > > the > > > > person who > > > > > posted the > > > > > message to subscribe to the list, so he can give > > > > > comments. > > > > > > > > > > How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where > > > > > the > > > > pressure is > > > > > greater? And > > > > > then the artist drags them after the path is > > > > > finished? Or > > > > would > > > > the > > > > > variable > > > > > width be immediately evident when the path is > > > > > finished? > > > > > > > > > > And it would only work with graphics tablets? > > > > > > > > > > One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would > > > > > be that > > > > the > > > > number > > > > > of nodes > > > > > probably would not build up so fast, as it does > > > > > with > > > > Calligraphy. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to > > > > > subscribe so > > > > he can > > > > > discuss > > > > > directly. > > > > > > > > > > All best,, > > > > > brynn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Jabier Arraiza > > > > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM > > > > > To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel > > > > > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity > > > > > for > > > > Pencil > > > > tool > > > > > using > > > > > powerstroke? > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > -------- > > > > ------ > > > > ------------- > > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > > > > world's > > > > most > > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/sl > > > > ashdot > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape > > > > -devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > -------- > > --------------- > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > > world's most > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashd > > ot______ > > _________________________________________ > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-dev > > el > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > -------- > > --------------- > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > > world's most > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashd > > ot > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-dev > > el > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > ------------- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's > most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel >
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Hi CR. You need to wait a lot, maybe years. is a very complex thing. :(
On Wed, 2017-09-06 at 21:26 +0100, C R wrote:
I want to have bitmap and vectors brushes. Like expression do with skeletal strokes.
Sounds awesome Jabier. I can't wait to see what you come up with! I'm thinking the Brushes dialogue could have tabs, one tab for vector brushes, and another for raster. In both, it would be great to have a preview for each brush to show how the resulting stroke looks.
I also saw this interesting thing: User defined curves that affect the shape of the brush for custom power-curve strokes. Some artists are using these in programs like Affinity Designer to make arrows: https://forum.affinity.serif.com/uploads/monthly_01_2015 /post-1105-0-54782600-1422122445.png
Having this as a vector brush option would be super useful I think, especially for interesting custom brushes.
-C
Cheers, Jabier.
On Wed, 2017-09-06 at 04:50 -0600, brynn wrote:
If they say that, at least we'd know what they are talking about.
That as apposed to "The stroke is crap!" - Which could be any one of a hundred non-brush related problems. :)
Well, I would not propose calling it a "stroke". Maybe "stroke profile"? ("stroke tip", "stroke nib", "stroke shape", "quill"??) Anything to avoid confusing it with raster brushes.
"Why don't you have a so and so brush, like all the other paint programs?"
We don't want wishlist items anymore? Also, would be a great place to
put custom brushes. Currently, our users have to jump through some invisible hoops to get a shape to flow like a brush stroke. This has needed a proper dialogue for a while, and this is the perfect opportunity to give it one.
That was a little bit changing the subject. My point is that Inkscape is not a paint program. They would be expecting the same thing from a vector brush that they get (or can do) with a raster brush. Inkscape is not a paint program, and I would not be happy with a bigger opportunity for confusion about that. We in the support areas already deal with the raster vs vector issue at least weekly (on average, although it tends to come in waves).
So if it's called something besides "brush" it would reduce this confusion.
The thing is, with Jabier's brush system, you may be actually be able
to do these things in the near future.
Really? It's going to be possible to convert a raster brush to a vector brush? And make it work and look the same? ("I imported my brush into Inkscape, but it doesn't work right!" "Inkscape broke my brush!")
Also, when people do compare, we can immediately point out the
advantages of Inkscape vector brushes vs. GIMP brushes - just have them zoom in. :) They'll get it right away.
"we"?? I'll let you write the FAQ item which will certainly be needed, even if it were called something different from "brushes".
You aren't seriously suggesting that we can explain the difference between raster and vector by telling users to zoom in? Even the most simplified version (of the webpage we've been needing for so long) would have 4 bullet points (although it ranges up to 10, depending who you talk to).
The thing is, they won't just compare. They won't post something like "I noticed something is different. Why?" They'll post things like the examples I've given. They will think something is broken.
Despite your reluctance, I would still encourage an effort to come up with some different name which implies a brush, but can't be confused with traditional raster brushes.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Monday, September 04, 2017 6:06 AM To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Well, I'm just thinking of it in terms of providing support. If they are called brushes, then pretty soon, we're getting messages like "your brushes are crap, why don't you make them work like all the other brushes in the world".
If they say that, at least we'd know what they are talking about. That as apposed to "The stroke is crap!" - Which could be any one of a hundred non-brush related problems. :)
"Why don't you have a so and so brush, like all the other paint programs?"
We don't want wishlist items anymore? Also, would be a great place to put custom brushes. Currently, our users have to jump through some invisible hoops to get a shape to flow like a brush stroke. This has needed a proper dialogue for a while, and this is the perfect opportunity to give it one.
"Why can't I import the brush I made in GIMP into Inkscape?" And etc. (We actually had the latter question in a forum, a few years ago!)
The thing is, with Jabier's brush system, you may be actually be able to do these things in the near future. If we make up new names for things just to prevent comparisons and user questions, we sacrifice discover-ability, and also wishlist items that make the brush system more versatile and easier to use.
No doubt we get all sorts of questions about raster transformations from people who are new to a vector editor. This is not a good enough reason to change common terminology between the programs, it is a good opportunity to educate people on the differences between vector and raster editors.
A vector brush is still a brush, just as a raster brush is still a brush. The functionality is identical to the user, and so should the terminology.
Also, when people do compare, we can immediately point out the advantages of Inkscape vector brushes vs. GIMP brushes - just have them zoom in. :) They'll get it right away.
-C
If we call them something that more reflects the vector-ness, then we don't have that problem. I'm afraid that people will compare them to raster brushes, and they just aren't the same. They're similar, but so very different, at the same time.
In many other areas, Inkscape has created its own terminology...or used SVG terminology. Inkscape calls "nodes" what other programs call "points", as a prominent example. Inkscape calls 'paths" what other programs call "lines".
I wonder if we could look to SVG (standards) to guide the terminology...somehow?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 1:31 AM To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Does Inkscape really strive to be a vector-brush drawing program?? Isn't that like saying "vector paint program"?
Inkscape is a vector drawing program. In previous threads, we expanded the term "drawing" to encompass, well pretty much anything. :) Why limit Inkscape's vector capabilities because it doesn't fit a particular definition of "drawing"?
I've really seen the term brush used more and more lately, in reference to Inkscape, and in what I consider to be an inappropriate way. Inkscape can achieve brush-like effects, with great effort. But unless there really is some plan to actually add true brushes, and develop Inkscape in that direction, I think we should discourage using that term. It gives a false impression of Inkscape capabilities, imo.
The term "brush" is used because that's what the effect is. Inkscape already has vector brushes in the Caligraphy tool. It's important to use terminology that users are familiar with. Saves a lot of explaining, just to be told "well, why didn't you call them brushes" like everyone else? :) I brush (in all graphics programs) refers to a shape applied along a path with added transformations. The effect is that it acts like a brush, so the term brush is appropriate here as well as in other drawing/painting/editing applications.
As it's referred to on the Pen and Pencil control bars, I think Shapes is better, referring to the profile of the stroke. Shapes, or maybe even "stroke profiles".
Or we could call them "brushes" like everyone else does, and spare the user the technical jargon we make up. :) Our "stroke profiles" are analogous to "brushes" in other programs. So when people ask "does Inkscape have brushes?" And we hit them with "no, but we have stroke profiles." Yea... let's just call them brushes like everyone else does, for the same reasons everyone else does. :)
Referring to a different comment in this thread, I didn't intend to "bash" GIMP earlier.
That comment was in regard to the remark "There's something good in GIMP?" - Don't do this, people. GIMP project are our friends, and you'll make none here by belittling another projects hard work.
I just dislike the interface, as a personal opinion.
We are not talking about GIMP's whole interface (as if one could write it all off as "bad" or something). Someone is mocking up wireframes based on how GIMP handles brushes. That's what sparked the GIMP comments... and people keep derailing the conversation. GIMP's entire user interface is not within the scope of this thread. Let's see where the wireframes go before denouncing it because it might look kinda like how GIMP does it.
There's every chance it's an effective interface for a raster program. But I don't think it would be effective for Inkscape.
No one is suggesting copying GIMPs whole user interface. :P
What's wrong with the Shapes menu, to hold the stroke profiles or so-called "brushes"?
"Where are the brushes in Inkscape" "They are in the 'Shapes Menu'."
Nah, not feeling it, personally. ;) Most everything in Inkscape is a "shape". Say "Brush", and people will know what you are talking about right away.
No need to reinvent the wheel here from my perspective. We could call them "vector brushes" like Krita does. It's important to stick with terms that are analogous to real life terms that are similar to the functionality. It makes learning and recall easier, and thus more intuitive.
-C
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 2:39 AM To: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz Cc: inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I think breaking out the brushes and effects into a dialog of its own is really the only way to go. I've not encountered a single graphics program out there which handles many (potentially customisable) brushes that doesn't have it's own side-panel/dock for the brush pallet. It really MUST happen at some point for Inkscape to become a better vector-brush drawing program.
Thanks to all for the hard work on this, esp Jabier! -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
Hi all.
As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the caligraphic tool than for the pencil tool.
Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not pressent in Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to do but we need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my monitor size.
Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the program grow the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space we need to compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The cuestion:
¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the right like for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool changes? This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in favor of a expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or not all day use features.
Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in calligraphic tool.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote: > > > Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here. > > It sounds like you are requesting something like the > Adobe > illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like > Inkscape's > calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could > in > fact be > a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the > brush > and the > new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe > even > all. > The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's > calligraphy brush > and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is > make > that > automatic. > > The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would > also > be cool > on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size. > > Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0 > > Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking > for > Miguel? > > > > > On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3606...... > e.co > m> > wrote: > > I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a > > suggestion. > > You know how you can spray objects and have the path > > joined > > together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that > > while > > stroking. > > > > On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel > > wrote: > > > Very convincing ! And there we have even more control > > > than > > > Expression for simple lines ! > > > > > > ivan > > > > > > > > > Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza > > > <jabier.arraiz > > > a@...3394... > > > .es> a écrit : > > > > > > > > > Hi all! > > > > > > This week I do a similar implementation and mark it > > > for > > > merge > > > request. > > > Here are a preview of the new branch running: > > > https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure > > > > > > All the best, Jabier. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans > > > wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I > > > > started > > > > just > > > > > > asking if > > > > the feature existed, but was told I should ask for > > > > it > > > > as a > > > > > > feature so > > > > here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love > > > > the > > > > program > > > > > > and > > > > find the features super useful. The powerstroke is > > > > one > > > > of the > > > > > > coolest > > > > features and I am having a lot of fun playing > > > > around > > > > with it. I > > > > > > have > > > > been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am > > > > already > > > > enjoying > > > > inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking > > > > about > > > > pressure > > > > sensitive line work is because it could be a huge > > > > time > > > > saver > > > > > > for > > > > manga art(or any extensive line art) where line > > > > work is > > > > > > incredibly > > > > important. It seems like all of the features > > > > actually > > > > exist in > > > > Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The > > > > calligraphy > > > > pen works > > > > nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), > > > > but > > > > if the > > > > > > line > > > > needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they > > > > basically > > > > need to > > > > > > be > > > > redrawn. > > > > > > > > The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its > > > > current > > > > state > > > > > > may > > > > require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if > > > > there are a > > > > > > lot > > > > of complicated lines. Being able to control the > > > > stroke > > > > width > > > > > > via > > > > pressure would make it a very smooth process. > > > > Unfortunately it > > > > > > would > > > > not be as useful without a preview as you draw. > > > > Maybe > > > > it could > > > > > > use > > > > the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if > > > > that isn't > > > > > > a 100% > > > > representation of the final product, it would guide > > > > the > > > > user to > > > > understand how much pressure they are applying. > > > > > > > > I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for > > > > the > > > > benefit > > > > > > of > > > > reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding > > > > fast > > > > smoothed > > > > > > line > > > > work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a > > > > smoothing > > > > > > feature, > > > > maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke > > > > outer > > > > lines > > > > > > as > > > > well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable > > > > sample > > > > rate? > > > > > > > > Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a > > > > way > > > > to > > > > > > increase or > > > > decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke > > > > nodes > > > > from > > > > > > main > > > > path. In essence it would be like increasing or > > > > decreasing the > > > > > > width > > > > of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my > > > > screen > > > > using a > > > > variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the > > > > pen > > > > pressure > > > > > > and > > > > applies it to the stroke, but also allows that > > > > stroke > > > > to be > > > > > > increases > > > > or decreased. > > > > > > > > Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78J > > > > lGD9 > > > > Y34 > > > > > > > > Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity > > > > options: http > > > > > > s://yo > > > > utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144 > > > > > > > > That same tool in adobe also has settings to > > > > control/limit the > > > > > > brush > > > > size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning > > > > and > > > > fixation > > > > > > to > > > > accomplish this effect in Inkscape. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97 > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that covers what I was originally asking > > > > about > > > > and > > > > > > more. > > > > Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for > > > > all > > > > the hard > > > > > > work > > > > you have put into the program! I know this > > > > software is > > > > a lot > > > > > > of work > > > > and new features are no small thing. I am not > > > > really a > > > > > > programmer so > > > > I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if > > > > you > > > > have a > > > > > > need or > > > > desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy > > > > to > > > > help! > > > > > > > > Manga line example that I did not draw: > > > > > > > > > > > > If you got through the whole email, thanks for > > > > listening! > > > > -Nate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Nate > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza > > > > <jabier.arraiza > > > > > > @marke > > > > r.es> wrote: > > > > > I wait he present to the list to reply. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Brynn. > > > > > > > > > > > > Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. > > > > > > The > > > > > > problem is > > > > > > no > > > > > > realtime > > > > > > preview, so you need to finish the path to see > > > > > > the > > > > > > variable > > > > > > > > > > width. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but > > > > > > this is > > > > > > more > > > > > > complex. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I don't use this kind of feature > > > > > > myself. So I > > > > > > couldn't say > > > > > if > > > > > > the lack of > > > > > > live preview would be crippling. I'll try to > > > > > > get > > > > > > the > > > > > > person who > > > > > > posted the > > > > > > message to subscribe to the list, so he can > > > > > > give > > > > > > comments. > > > > > > > > > > > > How would it work? Would it add pink nodes > > > > > > where > > > > > > the > > > > > > pressure is > > > > > > greater? And > > > > > > then the artist drags them after the path is > > > > > > finished? Or > > > > > > would > > > > > the > > > > > > variable > > > > > > width be immediately evident when the path is > > > > > > finished? > > > > > > > > > > > > And it would only work with graphics tablets? > > > > > > > > > > > > One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) > > > > > > would > > > > > > be that > > > > > > the > > > > > number > > > > > > of nodes > > > > > > probably would not build up so fast, as it does > > > > > > with > > > > > > Calligraphy. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to > > > > > > subscribe so > > > > > > he can > > > > > > discuss > > > > > > directly. > > > > > > > > > > > > All best,, > > > > > > brynn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Jabier Arraiza > > > > > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM > > > > > > To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure > > > > > > sensitivity > > > > > > for > > > > > > Pencil > > > > > tool > > > > > > using > > > > > > powerstroke? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------- > > > > > ---- > > > > > -------- > > > > > > ------ > > > > > ------------- > > > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of > > > > > the > > > > > world's > > > > > > most > > > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.lin > > > > > k/sl > > > > > ashdot > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > > > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inks > > > > > cape > > > > > -devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > ---- > > > -------- > > > --------------- > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > > > world's most > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/sl > > > ashd > > > ot______ > > > _________________________________________ > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape > > > -dev > > > el > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > ---- > > > -------- > > > --------------- > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > > > world's most > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/sl > > > ashd > > > ot > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape > > > -dev > > > el > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > -------- > > ------------- > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > > world's > > most > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slas > > hdot > > _______________________________________________ > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-d > > evel > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > -------- > ----------- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > world's > most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashd > ot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-dev > el
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
On Wed, 2017-09-06 at 22:35 +0200, Jabier Arraiza wrote:
Hi CR. You need to wait a lot, maybe years. is a very complex thing. :(
No worried Jabier, planning this kind of thing out in steps would be useful to do as a first step. Maybe make a wiki page to get your thoughts down so other developers can see what might need to be done.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Wed, 2017-09-06 at 16:53 -0400, Martin Owens wrote:
On Wed, 2017-09-06 at 22:35 +0200, Jabier Arraiza wrote:
Hi CR. You need to wait a lot, maybe years. is a very complex thing. :(
No worried Jabier, planning this kind of thing out in steps would be useful to do as a first step. Maybe make a wiki page to get your thoughts down so other developers can see what might need to be done.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
Hi Martin. I do it. Thanks.
Hi all http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Skeletal_Strokes
I hope this weekend I could fill it a bit.
Regards.
On Wed, 2017-09-06 at 22:56 +0200, Jabier Arraiza wrote:
On Wed, 2017-09-06 at 16:53 -0400, Martin Owens wrote:
On Wed, 2017-09-06 at 22:35 +0200, Jabier Arraiza wrote:
Hi CR. You need to wait a lot, maybe years. is a very complex thing. :(
No worried Jabier, planning this kind of thing out in steps would be useful to do as a first step. Maybe make a wiki page to get your thoughts down so other developers can see what might need to be done.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
Hi Martin. I do it. Thanks.
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
On Wed, 2017-09-06 at 23:14 +0200, Jabier Arraiza wrote:
Hi all http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Skeletal_Strokes
I hope this weekend I could fill it a bit.
Can we make a really cool iconic cartoon character called "Skeletal Strokes"? Big skeleton with a big anime inspired sword taking swinging strokes to cut through the blank canvas and creator's block.
Martin,
This is great!
On Wed, 2017-09-06 at 18:16 -0400, Martin Owens wrote:
On Wed, 2017-09-06 at 23:14 +0200, Jabier Arraiza wrote:
Hi all http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Skeletal_Strokes
I hope this weekend I could fill it a bit.
Can we make a really cool iconic cartoon character called "Skeletal Strokes"? Big skeleton with a big anime inspired sword taking swinging strokes to cut through the blank canvas and creator's block.
Martin,
Hi Jabier. There's certainly no rush! You know how much I enjoy your work already on a daily basis. :)
Thanks for all your work!
-C
On 6 Sep 2017 21:35, "Jabier Arraiza" <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
Hi CR. You need to wait a lot, maybe years. is a very complex thing. :(
On Wed, 2017-09-06 at 21:26 +0100, C R wrote:
I want to have bitmap and vectors brushes. Like expression do with skeletal strokes.
Sounds awesome Jabier. I can't wait to see what you come up with! I'm thinking the Brushes dialogue could have tabs, one tab for vector brushes, and another for raster. In both, it would be great to have a preview for each brush to show how the resulting stroke looks.
I also saw this interesting thing: User defined curves that affect the shape of the brush for custom power-curve strokes. Some artists are using these in programs like Affinity Designer to make arrows: https://forum.affinity.serif.com/uploads/monthly_01_2015 /post-1105-0-54782600-1422122445.png
Having this as a vector brush option would be super useful I think, especially for interesting custom brushes.
-C
Cheers, Jabier.
On Wed, 2017-09-06 at 04:50 -0600, brynn wrote:
If they say that, at least we'd know what they are talking about.
That as apposed to "The stroke is crap!" - Which could be any one of a hundred non-brush related problems. :)
Well, I would not propose calling it a "stroke". Maybe "stroke profile"? ("stroke tip", "stroke nib", "stroke shape", "quill"??) Anything to avoid confusing it with raster brushes.
"Why don't you have a so and so brush, like all the other paint programs?"
We don't want wishlist items anymore? Also, would be a great place to
put custom brushes. Currently, our users have to jump through some invisible hoops to get a shape to flow like a brush stroke. This has needed a proper dialogue for a while, and this is the perfect opportunity to give it one.
That was a little bit changing the subject. My point is that Inkscape is not a paint program. They would be expecting the same thing from a vector brush that they get (or can do) with a raster brush. Inkscape is not a paint program, and I would not be happy with a bigger opportunity for confusion about that. We in the support areas already deal with the raster vs vector issue at least weekly (on average, although it tends to come in waves).
So if it's called something besides "brush" it would reduce this confusion.
The thing is, with Jabier's brush system, you may be actually be able
to do these things in the near future.
Really? It's going to be possible to convert a raster brush to a vector brush? And make it work and look the same? ("I imported my brush into Inkscape, but it doesn't work right!" "Inkscape broke my brush!")
Also, when people do compare, we can immediately point out the
advantages of Inkscape vector brushes vs. GIMP brushes - just have them zoom in. :) They'll get it right away.
"we"?? I'll let you write the FAQ item which will certainly be needed, even if it were called something different from "brushes".
You aren't seriously suggesting that we can explain the difference between raster and vector by telling users to zoom in? Even the most simplified version (of the webpage we've been needing for so long) would have 4 bullet points (although it ranges up to 10, depending who you talk to).
The thing is, they won't just compare. They won't post something like "I noticed something is different. Why?" They'll post things like the examples I've given. They will think something is broken.
Despite your reluctance, I would still encourage an effort to come up with some different name which implies a brush, but can't be confused with traditional raster brushes.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Monday, September 04, 2017 6:06 AM To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Well, I'm just thinking of it in terms of providing support. If they are called brushes, then pretty soon, we're getting messages like "your brushes are crap, why don't you make them work like all the other brushes in the world".
If they say that, at least we'd know what they are talking about. That as apposed to "The stroke is crap!" - Which could be any one of a hundred non-brush related problems. :)
"Why don't you have a so and so brush, like all the other paint programs?"
We don't want wishlist items anymore? Also, would be a great place to put custom brushes. Currently, our users have to jump through some invisible hoops to get a shape to flow like a brush stroke. This has needed a proper dialogue for a while, and this is the perfect opportunity to give it one.
"Why can't I import the brush I made in GIMP into Inkscape?" And etc. (We actually had the latter question in a forum, a few years ago!)
The thing is, with Jabier's brush system, you may be actually be able to do these things in the near future. If we make up new names for things just to prevent comparisons and user questions, we sacrifice discover-ability, and also wishlist items that make the brush system more versatile and easier to use.
No doubt we get all sorts of questions about raster transformations from people who are new to a vector editor. This is not a good enough reason to change common terminology between the programs, it is a good opportunity to educate people on the differences between vector and raster editors.
A vector brush is still a brush, just as a raster brush is still a brush. The functionality is identical to the user, and so should the terminology.
Also, when people do compare, we can immediately point out the advantages of Inkscape vector brushes vs. GIMP brushes - just have them zoom in. :) They'll get it right away.
-C
If we call them something that more reflects the vector-ness, then we don't have that problem. I'm afraid that people will compare them to raster brushes, and they just aren't the same. They're similar, but so very different, at the same time.
In many other areas, Inkscape has created its own terminology...or used SVG terminology. Inkscape calls "nodes" what other programs call "points", as a prominent example. Inkscape calls 'paths" what other programs call "lines".
I wonder if we could look to SVG (standards) to guide the terminology...somehow?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 1:31 AM To: brynn Cc: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz ; inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
Does Inkscape really strive to be a vector-brush drawing program?? Isn't that like saying "vector paint program"?
Inkscape is a vector drawing program. In previous threads, we expanded the term "drawing" to encompass, well pretty much anything. :) Why limit Inkscape's vector capabilities because it doesn't fit a particular definition of "drawing"?
I've really seen the term brush used more and more lately, in reference to Inkscape, and in what I consider to be an inappropriate way. Inkscape can achieve brush-like effects, with great effort. But unless there really is some plan to actually add true brushes, and develop Inkscape in that direction, I think we should discourage using that term. It gives a false impression of Inkscape capabilities, imo.
The term "brush" is used because that's what the effect is. Inkscape already has vector brushes in the Caligraphy tool. It's important to use terminology that users are familiar with. Saves a lot of explaining, just to be told "well, why didn't you call them brushes" like everyone else? :) I brush (in all graphics programs) refers to a shape applied along a path with added transformations. The effect is that it acts like a brush, so the term brush is appropriate here as well as in other drawing/painting/editing applications.
As it's referred to on the Pen and Pencil control bars, I think Shapes is better, referring to the profile of the stroke. Shapes, or maybe even "stroke profiles".
Or we could call them "brushes" like everyone else does, and spare the user the technical jargon we make up. :) Our "stroke profiles" are analogous to "brushes" in other programs. So when people ask "does Inkscape have brushes?" And we hit them with "no, but we have stroke profiles." Yea... let's just call them brushes like everyone else does, for the same reasons everyone else does. :)
Referring to a different comment in this thread, I didn't intend to "bash" GIMP earlier.
That comment was in regard to the remark "There's something good in GIMP?" - Don't do this, people. GIMP project are our friends, and you'll make none here by belittling another projects hard work.
I just dislike the interface, as a personal opinion.
We are not talking about GIMP's whole interface (as if one could write it all off as "bad" or something). Someone is mocking up wireframes based on how GIMP handles brushes. That's what sparked the GIMP comments... and people keep derailing the conversation. GIMP's entire user interface is not within the scope of this thread. Let's see where the wireframes go before denouncing it because it might look kinda like how GIMP does it.
There's every chance it's an effective interface for a raster program. But I don't think it would be effective for Inkscape.
No one is suggesting copying GIMPs whole user interface. :P
What's wrong with the Shapes menu, to hold the stroke profiles or so-called "brushes"?
"Where are the brushes in Inkscape" "They are in the 'Shapes Menu'."
Nah, not feeling it, personally. ;) Most everything in Inkscape is a "shape". Say "Brush", and people will know what you are talking about right away.
No need to reinvent the wheel here from my perspective. We could call them "vector brushes" like Krita does. It's important to stick with terms that are analogous to real life terms that are similar to the functionality. It makes learning and recall easier, and thus more intuitive.
-C
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 2:39 AM To: Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz Cc: inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil tool using powerstroke?
I think breaking out the brushes and effects into a dialog of its own is really the only way to go. I've not encountered a single graphics program out there which handles many (potentially customisable) brushes that doesn't have it's own side-panel/dock for the brush pallet. It really MUST happen at some point for Inkscape to become a better vector-brush drawing program.
Thanks to all for the hard work on this, esp Jabier! -C
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote: > > > Hi all. > > As far I undertand boolop union result is more for the > caligraphic tool > than for the pencil tool. > > Anyway we have a feature that Nate like too much and is not > pressent in > Calligrapic tool is the min/max pressure. This is easy to > do > but we > need more space on the toolbox because it not fit into my > monitor size. > > Is not the only tool that have this problem and when the > program grow > the problem become bigger. Also because the lack of space > we > need to > compress the widgets and make hard to undertand. The > cuestion: > > ¿What about removing this toolbar by a tool dialog in the > right > like > for example Gimp, that autoupdate controls between tool > changes? > This give "unlimited" size to expand tools. Also I'm in > favor > of a > expander at the end of this dialog for advanced users or > not > all day > use features. > > Finaly seems easy boolop union with previous strokes in > calligraphic > tool. > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 13:13 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote: > > > > > > Hi! I figure I'll just throw myself in here. > > > > It sounds like you are requesting something like the > > Adobe > > illustrator blob brush. Essentially this tool is like > > Inkscape's > > calligraphy brush with an auto merge feature. Which could > > in > > fact be > > a handy feature. In illustrator you can paint with the > > brush > > and the > > new shapes merge it with a selection or a layer or maybe > > even > > all. > > The same effect can be achieved by using Inkscape's > > calligraphy brush > > and then merging the shapes. All the blob brush does is > > make > > that > > automatic. > > > > The really cool thing you added to the pencil that would > > also > > be cool > > on the calligraphy tool is the Max/min size. > > > > Illustrator Bob brush tool: https://youtu.be/4bhltsqSp_0 > > > > Am I correct in my interpretation of what you are asking > > for > > Miguel? > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 27, 2017 10:12 PM, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...2710...05... > > e.co > > m> > > wrote: > > > I like the work that's being done, by the way, I have a > > > suggestion. > > > You know how you can spray objects and have the path > > > joined > > > together, right? I'd like to see the option to do that > > > while > > > stroking. > > > > > > On 8/27/2017 6:38 PM, Ivan Louette via Inkscape-devel > > > wrote: > > > > Very convincing ! And there we have even more control > > > > than > > > > Expression for simple lines ! > > > > > > > > ivan > > > > > > > > > > > > Le Lundi 28 août 2017 0h27, Jabier Arraiza > > > > <jabier.arraiz > > > > a@...3394... > > > > .es> a écrit : > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all! > > > > > > > > This week I do a similar implementation and mark it > > > > for > > > > merge > > > > request. > > > > Here are a preview of the new branch running: > > > > https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure > > > > > > > > All the best, Jabier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans > > > > wrote: > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I > > > > > started > > > > > just > > > > > > > > asking if > > > > > the feature existed, but was told I should ask for > > > > > it > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > feature so > > > > > here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love > > > > > the > > > > > program > > > > > > > > and > > > > > find the features super useful. The powerstroke is > > > > > one > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > coolest > > > > > features and I am having a lot of fun playing > > > > > around > > > > > with it. I > > > > > > > > have > > > > > been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am > > > > > already > > > > > enjoying > > > > > inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking > > > > > about > > > > > pressure > > > > > sensitive line work is because it could be a huge > > > > > time > > > > > saver > > > > > > > > for > > > > > manga art(or any extensive line art) where line > > > > > work is > > > > > > > > incredibly > > > > > important. It seems like all of the features > > > > > actually > > > > > exist in > > > > > Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The > > > > > calligraphy > > > > > pen works > > > > > nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), > > > > > but > > > > > if the > > > > > > > > line > > > > > needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they > > > > > basically > > > > > need to > > > > > > > > be > > > > > redrawn. > > > > > > > > > > The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its > > > > > current > > > > > state > > > > > > > > may > > > > > require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if > > > > > there are a > > > > > > > > lot > > > > > of complicated lines. Being able to control the > > > > > stroke > > > > > width > > > > > > > > via > > > > > pressure would make it a very smooth process. > > > > > Unfortunately it > > > > > > > > would > > > > > not be as useful without a preview as you draw. > > > > > Maybe > > > > > it could > > > > > > > > use > > > > > the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if > > > > > that isn't > > > > > > > > a 100% > > > > > representation of the final product, it would guide > > > > > the > > > > > user to > > > > > understand how much pressure they are applying. > > > > > > > > > > I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for > > > > > the > > > > > benefit > > > > > > > > of > > > > > reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding > > > > > fast > > > > > smoothed > > > > > > > > line > > > > > work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a > > > > > smoothing > > > > > > > > feature, > > > > > maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke > > > > > outer > > > > > lines > > > > > > > > as > > > > > well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable > > > > > sample > > > > > rate? > > > > > > > > > > Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a > > > > > way > > > > > to > > > > > > > > increase or > > > > > decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke > > > > > nodes > > > > > from > > > > > > > > main > > > > > path. In essence it would be like increasing or > > > > > decreasing the > > > > > > > > width > > > > > of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my > > > > > screen > > > > > using a > > > > > variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the > > > > > pen > > > > > pressure > > > > > > > > and > > > > > applies it to the stroke, but also allows that > > > > > stroke > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > increases > > > > > or decreased. > > > > > > > > > > Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78J > > > > > lGD9 > > > > > Y34 > > > > > > > > > > Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity > > > > > options: http > > > > > > > > s://yo > > > > > utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144 > > > > > > > > > > That same tool in adobe also has settings to > > > > > control/limit the > > > > > > > > brush > > > > > size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning > > > > > and > > > > > fixation > > > > > > > > to > > > > > accomplish this effect in Inkscape. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that covers what I was originally asking > > > > > about > > > > > and > > > > > > > > more. > > > > > Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for > > > > > all > > > > > the hard > > > > > > > > work > > > > > you have put into the program! I know this > > > > > software is > > > > > a lot > > > > > > > > of work > > > > > and new features are no small thing. I am not > > > > > really a > > > > > > > > programmer so > > > > > I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if > > > > > you > > > > > have a > > > > > > > > need or > > > > > desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy > > > > > to > > > > > help! > > > > > > > > > > Manga line example that I did not draw: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you got through the whole email, thanks for > > > > > listening! > > > > > -Nate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Nate > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza > > > > > <jabier.arraiza > > > > > > > > @marke > > > > > r.es> wrote: > > > > > > I wait he present to the list to reply. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Brynn. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > problem is > > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > realtime > > > > > > > preview, so you need to finish the path to see > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > variable > > > > > > > > > > > > width. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but > > > > > > > this is > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > complex. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Jabier. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I don't use this kind of feature > > > > > > > myself. So I > > > > > > > > couldn't say > > > > > > if > > > > > > > the lack of > > > > > > > live preview would be crippling. I'll try to > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > person who > > > > > > > posted the > > > > > > > message to subscribe to the list, so he can > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > comments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How would it work? Would it add pink nodes > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > pressure is > > > > > > > greater? And > > > > > > > then the artist drags them after the path is > > > > > > > finished? Or > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > the > > > > > > > variable > > > > > > > width be immediately evident when the path is > > > > > > > finished? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And it would only work with graphics tablets? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > be that > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > number > > > > > > > of nodes > > > > > > > probably would not build up so fast, as it does > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > Calligraphy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to > > > > > > > subscribe so > > > > > > > > he can > > > > > > > discuss > > > > > > > directly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All best,, > > > > > > > brynn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Jabier Arraiza > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM > > > > > > > To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure > > > > > > > sensitivity > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > Pencil > > > > > > tool > > > > > > > using > > > > > > > powerstroke? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > -------- > > > > > > > > ------ > > > > > > ------------- > > > > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of > > > > > > the > > > > > > world's > > > > > > > > most > > > > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.lin > > > > > > k/sl > > > > > > ashdot > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > > > > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inks > > > > > > cape > > > > > > -devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > ---- > > > > -------- > > > > --------------- > > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > > > > world's most > > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/sl > > > > ashd > > > > ot______ > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape > > > > -dev > > > > el > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > ---- > > > > -------- > > > > --------------- > > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > > > > world's most > > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/sl > > > > ashd > > > > ot > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape > > > > -dev > > > > el > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > > ---- > > > -------- > > > ------------- > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > > > world's > > > most > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slas > > > hdot > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-d > > > evel > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > -------- > > ----------- > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the > > world's > > most > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashd > > ot > > _______________________________________________ > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-dev > > el > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > ----------------- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's > most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel >
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
On Monday 28 August 2017 3:56:16 AM IST Jabier Arraiza wrote:
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
Wow this is wonderful! Thank you very much Jabier.
Thanks for the feedback!
On Mon, 2017-08-28 at 08:39 +0530, Raghavendra Kamath wrote:
On Monday 28 August 2017 3:56:16 AM IST Jabier Arraiza wrote:
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
Wow this is wonderful! Thank you very much Jabier.
Looks awesome! Can't wait to try it. You did it so fast!
-- Nate
On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking if the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature so here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the coolest features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I have been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it would not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a 100% representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing feature, maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase or decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the width of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be increases or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: https://yo utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the brush size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation to accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and more. Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard work you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot of work and new features are no small thing. I am not really a programmer so I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a need or desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3313... r.es> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable
width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say
if
the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would
the
variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the
number
of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil
tool
using powerstroke?
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Thanks!
On Sun, 2017-08-27 at 23:46 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Looks awesome! Can't wait to try it. You did it so fast!
-- Nate
On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3313... r.es> wrote:
Hi all!
This week I do a similar implementation and mark it for merge request. Here are a preview of the new branch running: https://archive.org/details/inkscapepencilpressure
All the best, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 22:36 -0400, Nate Yungkans wrote:
Hi All, I'm Nate, the one who posted in the forums. I started just asking if the feature existed, but was told I should ask for it as a feature so here I am. Hello :) First I wanted to say I love the program and find the features super useful. The powerstroke is one of the coolest features and I am having a lot of fun playing around with it. I have been an Adobe Illustrator for years but I am already enjoying inkscape more. Anyways, the reason I was asking about pressure sensitive line work is because it could be a huge time saver for manga art(or any extensive line art) where line work is incredibly important. It seems like all of the features actually exist in Inkscape, but not together as a tool. The calligraphy pen works nicely with pressure and the mass(for precision), but if the line needs to be edited in an meaningful way, they basically need to be redrawn.
The powerstroke feature is awesome, but in its current state may require a lot of manual setting line thicknesses if there are a lot of complicated lines. Being able to control the stroke width via pressure would make it a very smooth process. Unfortunately it would not be as useful without a preview as you draw. Maybe it could use the same preview the calligraphy tool uses? Even if that isn't a 100% representation of the final product, it would guide the user to understand how much pressure they are applying.
I asked about an auto simplify feature not only for the benefit of reducing the number of nodes, but also in aiding fast smoothed line work. I see that a line drawn with a pencil has a smoothing feature, maybe that can also be applied to the powerstroke outer lines as well; or maybe the pressure has an adjustable sample rate?
Additionally, it would be fantastic if there was a way to increase or decrease the relative distance of the powerstroke nodes from main path. In essence it would be like increasing or decreasing the width of the powerstroke. As an example I recorded my screen using a variable brush tool in Illustrator. It reads the pen pressure and applies it to the stroke, but also allows that stroke to be increases or decreased.
Screen capture example Video: https://youtu.be/u78JlGD9Y34
Example of the adobe brush tool simplify/fidelity options: https: //yo utu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=144
That same tool in adobe also has settings to control/limit the brush size and shape. I've been utilizing mass, thinning and fixation to accomplish this effect in Inkscape.
https://youtu.be/iIW_oeUcO2E?t=97
I think that covers what I was originally asking about and more. Hopefully it was not too much. Thanks so much for all the hard work you have put into the program! I know this software is a lot of work and new features are no small thing. I am not really a programmer so I can't contribute to the effort that way, but if you have a need or desire to include a UX/UI designer I would be happy to help!
Manga line example that I did not draw:
If you got through the whole email, thanks for listening! -Nate
-- Nate
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...3314...67... arke r.es> wrote:
I wait he present to the list to reply.
Cheers, Jabier.
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 05:44 -0600, brynn wrote:
Hi Brynn.
Great and easy to do. I could do if we want. The problem is no realtime preview, so you need to finish the path to see the variable
width.
Maybe I can add a preview while drawing but this is more complex.
Cheers, Jabier. ________________________________________________
Well I don't use this kind of feature myself. So I couldn't say
if
the lack of live preview would be crippling. I'll try to get the person who posted the message to subscribe to the list, so he can give comments.
How would it work? Would it add pink nodes where the pressure is greater? And then the artist drags them after the path is finished? Or would
the
variable width be immediately evident when the path is finished?
And it would only work with graphics tablets?
One benefit for such a tool (it seems to me) would be that the
number
of nodes probably would not build up so fast, as it does with Calligraphy.
Thanks, Jabier. I'll try to get this guy to subscribe so he can discuss directly.
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Jabier Arraiza Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:23 AM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] pressure sensitivity for Pencil
tool
using powerstroke?
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
participants (8)
-
brynn -
C R -
Ivan Louette -
Jabier Arraiza -
Martin Owens -
Miguel Lopez -
Nate Yungkans -
Raghavendra Kamath