SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale
Hi Inkscape Devs!
I’ve used Inkscape for about five years now and have built up quite the library of svg files and have been using 91 since its release. My main creative effort is to build paper toys that I print and cut (in bulk) on a Silhouette Portrait cutting machine. (More info on my works at http://netroids.net ). I have a 100s of files and hoped to use them as my long term "masters” given that SVG is not proprietary and has had such great page layout fidelity for me.
I’d love to update to v92 and future versions but, as is commonly known, the svg save logic has changed to support a new CSS standard of 96dpi and it is affecting my ability to import into my cutting software.
It seems that perhaps the values written by Inkscape in 91 svg files are encoded using a 90dpi scale from their original design-time dimensions. In the past I’ve had much success importing SVGs from Inkscape 91 into Silhouette studio for years. (Granted, I do perform a little cleansing in a copy of the master svg before I go to Silhouette: I simplify the layers, ungroup, and flatten out clones into their own objects. Perhaps it is just serendipity that the Silhouette Studio imports SVGs at the 90dpi. (I tried asking them about dpi but I couldn’t "break through" their first-tier help desk support "fire wall".)
I know there’s an import prompt and process for opening 91 files in 92 and I have participated in the launchpad forum and chat with Mc about this topic. (my user name is jimbox13).
Unfortunate for me, none of the prompts give a workable solution. Here’s what happens to my files based on each option. (I used a diff tool in to investigate some of the changes.)
* "Accuracy for sizes and position of paths" (Desired option) * Grid and guides appear to be changed – though I’m not sure to what extent. * Rectangles, paths and strokes are sized up by 6.667% * Inkscape Designer Outcome: shapes and sizes correct right based on the page. :) (bug #1712114 occurs.) * Cutter Software Outcome: File is too large (by 6.667%) for cutting area. :( * "Digital Art" * Grid and guides changed to some degree. * Rectangles and paths not changed. * Inkscape Designer Outcome: shapes and sizes are too small for the page :( * Cutter Software Outcome: shapes and sizes are correct :) * "Accuracy for masks and clips" * Grid and guides changed to some degree. * Rectangles, paths and strokes are changed to some degree, not the same as above. * Inkscape Designer Outcome: shapes and sizes correct right based on the page. :) (bug #1712114 does not occur.) * Cutter Software Outcome: File is significantly too small for cutting area. :(
None of these options produce a svg that maintains its correct physical dimensions across both software packages. I tried experimenting by customizing the "units.xml" file in 92 without success.
Here is my original v91 file zipped. (I added a background rectangle that is the size of the page to help troubleshooting.)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q6o17j5an2piiw3/acutra_TOCUTv91wBG.zip?dl=0
Is there anything that can be done?
Thanks
Jim
Hi James,
It seems like the main issue is thrice fold:
A) opening SVG 1.1 file means we have to convert it to SVG 2.0 dpi, even though the spec isn't released, we've cut off the published spec support too early. B) We can't save physical units into the svg files themselves, mitigating issues of external unit compatibility. C) We don't have any capacity for users to change the way svg is saved to indicate which svg spec we should use.
So we've got quite the compatibility problem. This isn't an issue if one exports pdf files or printing to cut, but is a problem in this case where the cutting software is consuming svg files directly.
Tav and others: For 0.93, do we have a plan to try and help this situation?
If we can provide a way to save physical units and set svg 1.1 or svg 2.0 outputs, we should be covering all bases.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On 23 August 2017 at 11:10, James Fritzler <jimbox13@...3425...> wrote:
Hi Inkscape Devs!
I’ve used Inkscape for about five years now and have built up quite the library of svg files and have been using 91 since its release. My main creative effort is to build paper toys that I print and cut (in bulk) on a Silhouette Portrait cutting machine. (More info on my works at http://netroids.net ). I have a 100s of files and hoped to use them as my long term "masters” given that SVG is not proprietary and has had such great page layout fidelity for me.
I’d love to update to v92 and future versions but, as is commonly known, the svg save logic has changed to support a new CSS standard of 96dpi and it is affecting my ability to import into my cutting software.
It seems that perhaps the values written by Inkscape in 91 svg files are encoded using a 90dpi scale from their original design-time dimensions. In the past I’ve had much success importing SVGs from Inkscape 91 into Silhouette studio for years. (Granted, I do perform a little cleansing in a copy of the master svg before I go to Silhouette: I simplify the layers, ungroup, and flatten out clones into their own objects. Perhaps it is just serendipity that the Silhouette Studio imports SVGs at the 90dpi. (I tried asking them about dpi but I couldn’t "break through" their first-tier help desk support "fire wall".)
I know there’s an import prompt and process for opening 91 files in 92 and I have participated in the launchpad forum and chat with Mc about this topic. (my user name is jimbox13).
Unfortunate for me, none of the prompts give a workable solution. Here’s what happens to my files based on each option. (I used a diff tool in to investigate some of the changes.)
"Accuracy for sizes and position of paths" (Desired option)
Grid and guides appear to be changed – though I’m not sure to what extent. Rectangles, paths and strokes are sized up by 6.667% Inkscape Designer Outcome: shapes and sizes correct right based on the page. :) (bug #1712114 occurs.) Cutter Software Outcome: File is too large (by 6.667%) for cutting area. :(
"Digital Art"
Grid and guides changed to some degree. Rectangles and paths not changed. Inkscape Designer Outcome: shapes and sizes are too small for the page :( Cutter Software Outcome: shapes and sizes are correct :)
"Accuracy for masks and clips"
Grid and guides changed to some degree. Rectangles, paths and strokes are changed to some degree, not the same as above. Inkscape Designer Outcome: shapes and sizes correct right based on the page. :) (bug #1712114 does not occur.) Cutter Software Outcome: File is significantly too small for cutting area. :(
None of these options produce a svg that maintains its correct physical dimensions across both software packages. I tried experimenting by customizing the "units.xml" file in 92 without success.
Here is my original v91 file zipped. (I added a background rectangle that is the size of the page to help troubleshooting.)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q6o17j5an2piiw3/acutra_TOCUTv91wBG.zip?dl=0
Is there anything that can be done?
Thanks
Jim
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Just a few important precisions:
-> 96dpi is NOT a svg2-only feature, but very well compatible with svg1.1 (as well as any other conversion rate, actually, since svg1.1 leaves the conversion ratio up to the user agent). That 96 rate is already used by almost all svg renderers (the browser ones, at least)
-> iirc, what the "conversion" the extension did is exactly the automatic update done on opening the files.
-> If the file is sized in a physical unit (in doc properties-> page size is in mm/in) AND the file has a viewbox, there should be no ambiguity on the size of anything. Without knowing what are the "silhouette studio" bugs about reading svg stuff sizes, it may be difficult to help : both "physical output" conversions produce a valid svg file where the orange area occupies a 11"x8.5" space being the entire page, as it should. From what you describe, I think your software does not honor the viewBox attribute and just assumes it to be "0 0 90w 90h" or something like that.
Either they will have to fix it, or you just use the "digital art" non-conversion and draw smaller stuff in inkscape to account for it. Editing units.xml might help you with that (to seamlessly work without having that 6.667% ratio to think about), but it's just a workaround.
both "physical output" conversions produce a valid svg file where the orange area occupies a 11"x8.5" space being the entire page
Oops, sorry, I was too fast on this one, actually the least recommended method ("accuracy of the physical unit size") does not appear to set a viewBox at all¹, so the size of stuff will depend on the UA
Thanks everyone for your help. I have just verified two ways to get my v91 files to be workable in v92 and also in the 3rd party silhouette studio cutting software!!
*Method 1 - Suggested by Karina
Open the v91 file in v92 and choose the first "physical" option (the one that says "choose if unsure" - mentions masks, etc)
The graphic scale is preserved. When ready for the cutting software use File Save As "Plain SVG". The file opens perfect in silhouette studio.
*Method 2 - Suggested by Jabier
Open the v91 file in v92 and choose "digital art" file option. Next use the Extensions Document DPI 96 to 90. Save.
SVG is correctly scaled in both softwares!
I think I will use Method 1 (though I don't understand the underlying changes.) because I DO end up saving a copy (not master) for the cutter machine anyway.
Thanks all! :D
If you developers want to add a "SVG 1.1" save as option for SVG and/or a DPI save option for SVG that would be great but my issue is solved as of the time being. I guess as long as "plain svg" keeps being plain. ;)
________________________________ From: Marc Jeanmougin <marc@...3062...> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 4:46 PM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale
both "physical output" conversions produce a valid svg file where the orange area occupies a 11"x8.5" space being the entire page
Oops, sorry, I was too fast on this one, actually the least recommended method ("accuracy of the physical unit size") does not appear to set a viewBox at all¹, so the size of stuff will depend on the UA
-- Mc
¹:wtf, why → I will investigate on that
participants (3)
-
James Fritzler
-
Marc Jeanmougin
-
Martin Owens