Dear developers,
We've just concluded our board meeting and one of the issues was funding. We're kicking around an idea of allowing some developers to use the service Patreon (http://patreon.com/) to collect subscriptions to fund their Inkscape development.
This system of funding would be quite different from either a centralised funding model or the status quo of non-user involvement.
These are some very raw thoughts for considering and I'd love to get more feedback from the wider developer community:
* Developers would be allowed to create a Patreon page which describes their work on Inkscape.
* Each developer would be shaping their focuses and would be responsible to keeping their Patreon pages up to date.
* Developers may only define themselves as Inkscape developers on patreon if: . + They are Inkscape developers (in the list of devs) . + Are considered active in the project. . + Present Inkscape in a good light on their pages. . + Have asked for permission from the developers list.
* Developers would be removed from the scheme by the developers if . + They are not active in the project for 2 months . + Are involved in an conduct infraction which gets them removed from the project.
* People claiming to be Inkscape developers without permission will be considered to be using the Inkscape trademark inappropriately. (must check legal with Conservancy to make sure this is true)
* The Inkscape general fund continues to be the donation headline, money going towards hackfests and other resources for the project.
* The project would do periodic funding drives to improve donations and subscriptions to our patreon developers. Using social media and news announcements to improve funding.
* Contributors to patreon developers would NOT receive sponsorship rewards from Inkscape (i.e. sponsorship levels on the website).
* Patreon developers would continue to get sponsorship for hackfest expenses much like any other developer would.
== Status ==
We have two developers who are prepared to trial such a system. Tav and Mc (Marc), both attended the hackfest, both have worked on Inkscape intensively for quite a while.
I want to see if it's possible try and get a trial set up quickly. Mc will leave education in 2 months and must decide to continue developing Inkscape or move on to full time employment.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
To me is a great idea. I hope Tav and Mc have a great experience and have his talents for long term.
Personaly could be good to me in mid term.
Hope its done, Jabier.
On Sat, 2017-08-05 at 11:54 -0400, Martin Owens wrote:
Dear developers,
We've just concluded our board meeting and one of the issues was funding. We're kicking around an idea of allowing some developers to use the service Patreon (http://patreon.com/) to collect subscriptions to fund their Inkscape development.
This system of funding would be quite different from either a centralised funding model or the status quo of non-user involvement.
These are some very raw thoughts for considering and I'd love to get more feedback from the wider developer community:
* Developers would be allowed to create a Patreon page which describes their work on Inkscape.
* Each developer would be shaping their focuses and would be responsible to keeping their Patreon pages up to date.
* Developers may only define themselves as Inkscape developers on patreon if: . + They are Inkscape developers (in the list of devs) . + Are considered active in the project. . + Present Inkscape in a good light on their pages. . + Have asked for permission from the developers list.
* Developers would be removed from the scheme by the developers if . + They are not active in the project for 2 months . + Are involved in an conduct infraction which gets them removed from the project.
* People claiming to be Inkscape developers without permission will be considered to be using the Inkscape trademark inappropriately. (must check legal with Conservancy to make sure this is true)
* The Inkscape general fund continues to be the donation headline, money going towards hackfests and other resources for the project.
* The project would do periodic funding drives to improve donations and subscriptions to our patreon developers. Using social media and news announcements to improve funding.
* Contributors to patreon developers would NOT receive sponsorship rewards from Inkscape (i.e. sponsorship levels on the website).
* Patreon developers would continue to get sponsorship for hackfest expenses much like any other developer would.
== Status ==
We have two developers who are prepared to trial such a system. Tav and Mc (Marc), both attended the hackfest, both have worked on Inkscape intensively for quite a while.
I want to see if it's possible try and get a trial set up quickly. Mc will leave education in 2 months and must decide to continue developing Inkscape or move on to full time employment.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
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On 08/05/2017 05:54 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
We have two developers who are prepared to trial such a system. Tav and Mc (Marc), both attended the hackfest, both have worked on Inkscape intensively for quite a while.
I want to see if it's possible try and get a trial set up quickly. Mc will leave education in 2 months and must decide to continue developing Inkscape or move on to full time employment.
I encourage this plan, I would like to see funded development on Inkscape.
Best Regards, Alexander
I hope Mc has more skills as a developer than as a chat room monitor.
One of the best ways of supporting development is to engage the community in a positive way so the developers don't have to spend their time answering routine questions in the many channels of communication that we have available.
Has anyone found organizational or corporate sources of support?
Thanks,
Robert Sterbal robert@...3541... 412-977-3526 call/text
On 8/8/2017 7:16 AM, Alexander Brock wrote:
On 08/05/2017 05:54 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
We have two developers who are prepared to trial such a system. Tav and Mc (Marc), both attended the hackfest, both have worked on Inkscape intensively for quite a while.
I want to see if it's possible try and get a trial set up quickly. Mc will leave education in 2 months and must decide to continue developing Inkscape or move on to full time employment.
I encourage this plan, I would like to see funded development on Inkscape.
Best Regards, Alexander
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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I hope Mc has more skills as a developer than as a chat room monitor.
... wha?
One of the best ways of supporting development is to engage the community in a positive way so the developers don't have to spend their time answering routine questions in the many channels of communication that we have available.
Plenty of people to answer questions. Mc is just one of the most helpful right away.
Has anyone found organizational or corporate sources of support?
I'm trying, but my source wants some accountability tied in with the funds. This is actually what sparked the Patreon idea of funding - Patrons are sure where their money is going. Everyone wants something fixed or improved, and the only way to guarantee that is something like Patreon. If devs don't follow up on their promises, the funders can pull funding.
As far as some company that just wants to dump money on the project without any particular fix/requirement/agenda: Nope. Still chasing that unicorn. :)
Stay tuned. -C
Thanks,
Robert Sterbal robert@...3541... 412-977-3526 call/text
On 8/8/2017 7:16 AM, Alexander Brock wrote:
On 08/05/2017 05:54 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
We have two developers who are prepared to trial such a system. Tav and Mc (Marc), both attended the hackfest, both have worked on Inkscape intensively for quite a while.
I want to see if it's possible try and get a trial set up quickly. Mc will leave education in 2 months and must decide to continue developing Inkscape or move on to full time employment.
I encourage this plan, I would like to see funded development on Inkscape.
Best Regards, Alexander
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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There's not much organizational or corporate support, and that's part of the issue. If we look at Blender, Krita, and Natron, you see proper open source development. Now, when you look at GIMP, and no offense to anyone, Inkscape, you'd see issues with slow development. The guys at GIMP are probably in the same situation. The main issue is that Inkscape is not very usable for most professionals (I say this as someone who designs product, and my work involves printing vectors, so Illustrator or CorelDraw is my only choice as they directly support CMYK. You'd have to convert to Krita in order to get the exact color you need, and that is really painful), and the least it requires to move into professional area is CMYK support. Making Inkscape into a professional app would increase corporate support big time. All of that being said, I think I have a idea.
What if we can talk with developers of Blender, and Krita to see if they can help us with funding issues somehow, and get more funding by borrowing their money. Krita had 36000 dollars of funding in matters of two day which shows they have huge amount of support (in comparison with GIMP, GIMP has less than 5000 from what I seen. Out of the two, Krita can work in a pro workflow because of having feature set only seen in Affinity Photo, and Photoshop. That is probably why Krita has more fundings at this point in comparison with GIMP).
On 8/8/2017 8:12 AM, C R wrote:
I hope Mc has more skills as a developer than as a chat room monitor.
... wha?
One of the best ways of supporting development is to engage the community in a positive way so the developers don't have to spend their time answering routine questions in the many channels of communication that we have available.
Plenty of people to answer questions. Mc is just one of the most helpful right away.
Has anyone found organizational or corporate sources of support?
I'm trying, but my source wants some accountability tied in with the funds. This is actually what sparked the Patreon idea of funding - Patrons are sure where their money is going. Everyone wants something fixed or improved, and the only way to guarantee that is something like Patreon. If devs don't follow up on their promises, the funders can pull funding.
As far as some company that just wants to dump money on the project without any particular fix/requirement/agenda: Nope. Still chasing that unicorn. :)
Stay tuned. -C
Thanks,
Robert Sterbal robert@...3541... 412-977-3526 call/text
On 8/8/2017 7:16 AM, Alexander Brock wrote:
On 08/05/2017 05:54 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
We have two developers who are prepared to trial such a system. Tav and Mc (Marc), both attended the hackfest, both have worked on Inkscape intensively for quite a while.
I want to see if it's possible try and get a trial set up quickly. Mc will leave education in 2 months and must decide to continue developing Inkscape or move on to full time employment.
I encourage this plan, I would like to see funded development on Inkscape.
Best Regards, Alexander
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com
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Krita has only a few full time developers, and they do Kickstarters. They also had trouble with the tax man recently so their funds are short. If anything, we should be helping them with money and awareness of the software. We don't have any internal structure that supports what Blender or Krita do, and we have not even considered a kickstarter for funds. We've tried round about nothing in terms of fundraisers, so I believe it would be inappropriate to ask any projects for some their funds when we offer nothing, and have not even decided what we might offer in return, much less who would be doing those things.
-C
On 8 Aug 2017 15:33, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
There's not much organizational or corporate support, and that's part of the issue. If we look at Blender, Krita, and Natron, you see proper open source development. Now, when you look at GIMP, and no offense to anyone, Inkscape, you'd see issues with slow development. The guys at GIMP are probably in the same situation. The main issue is that Inkscape is not very usable for most professionals (I say this as someone who designs product, and my work involves printing vectors, so Illustrator or CorelDraw is my only choice as they directly support CMYK. You'd have to convert to Krita in order to get the exact color you need, and that is really painful), and the least it requires to move into professional area is CMYK support. Making Inkscape into a professional app would increase corporate support big time. All of that being said, I think I have a idea.
What if we can talk with developers of Blender, and Krita to see if they can help us with funding issues somehow, and get more funding by borrowing their money. Krita had 36000 dollars of funding in matters of two day which shows they have huge amount of support (in comparison with GIMP, GIMP has less than 5000 from what I seen. Out of the two, Krita can work in a pro workflow because of having feature set only seen in Affinity Photo, and Photoshop. That is probably why Krita has more fundings at this point in comparison with GIMP).
On 8/8/2017 8:12 AM, C R wrote:
I hope Mc has more skills as a developer than as a chat room monitor.
... wha?
One of the best ways of supporting development is to engage the
community in
a positive way so the developers don't have to spend their time
answering
routine questions in the many channels of communication that we have available.
Plenty of people to answer questions. Mc is just one of the most helpful right away.
Has anyone found organizational or corporate sources of support?
I'm trying, but my source wants some accountability tied in with the funds. This is actually what sparked the Patreon idea of funding - Patrons are sure where their money is going. Everyone wants something fixed or improved, and the only way to guarantee that is something like Patreon. If devs don't follow up on their promises, the funders can pull funding.
As far as some company that just wants to dump money on the project without any particular fix/requirement/agenda: Nope. Still chasing that unicorn. :)
Stay tuned. -C
Thanks,
Robert Sterbal robert@...3541... 412-977-3526 call/text
On 8/8/2017 7:16 AM, Alexander Brock wrote:
On 08/05/2017 05:54 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
We have two developers who are prepared to trial such a system. Tav
and
Mc (Marc), both attended the hackfest, both have worked on Inkscape intensively for quite a while.
I want to see if it's possible try and get a trial set up quickly. Mc will leave education in 2 months and must decide to continue
developing
Inkscape or move on to full time employment.
I encourage this plan, I would like to see funded development on
Inkscape.
Best Regards, Alexander
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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On the Krita side of things, there's one thing we have to offer. Interchangability between Krita vector layer, and Inkscape. This is the first time in open source history where such a thing comes closer to Photoshop and Illustrator interaction. If that can be improved, indirectly Inkscape becomes more viable. There's a way to get Inkscape SVG ported into Krita file. Krita file is essentially a .zip file, and in Krita 4.0 Pre-Alpha, there is content.svg. If you edit that, and then convert the .zip file back to .kra, you have your Inkscape SVG in Krita file. Easy-peasy.
Problem with that idea is always development taking so much time, but that is reality. Someway, I do think interactions between software developers is the key to having Inkscape develop at a faster rate. Right now, we do not have much options here. Kickstarters might not help at this stage as Inkscape reputation is decreasing. Likewise, GIMP has that very glaring issue.
On 8/8/2017 11:44 AM, C R wrote: Krita has only a few full time developers, and they do Kickstarters. They also had trouble with the tax man recently so their funds are short. If anything, we should be helping them with money and awareness of the software. We don't have any internal structure that supports what Blender or Krita do, and we have not even considered a kickstarter for funds. We've tried round about nothing in terms of fundraisers, so I believe it would be inappropriate to ask any projects for some their funds when we offer nothing, and have not even decided what we might offer in return, much less who would be doing those things.
-C
On 8 Aug 2017 15:33, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...mailto:reptillia39@...3425...> wrote: There's not much organizational or corporate support, and that's part of the issue. If we look at Blender, Krita, and Natron, you see proper open source development. Now, when you look at GIMP, and no offense to anyone, Inkscape, you'd see issues with slow development. The guys at GIMP are probably in the same situation. The main issue is that Inkscape is not very usable for most professionals (I say this as someone who designs product, and my work involves printing vectors, so Illustrator or CorelDraw is my only choice as they directly support CMYK. You'd have to convert to Krita in order to get the exact color you need, and that is really painful), and the least it requires to move into professional area is CMYK support. Making Inkscape into a professional app would increase corporate support big time. All of that being said, I think I have a idea.
What if we can talk with developers of Blender, and Krita to see if they can help us with funding issues somehow, and get more funding by borrowing their money. Krita had 36000 dollars of funding in matters of two day which shows they have huge amount of support (in comparison with GIMP, GIMP has less than 5000 from what I seen. Out of the two, Krita can work in a pro workflow because of having feature set only seen in Affinity Photo, and Photoshop. That is probably why Krita has more fundings at this point in comparison with GIMP).
On 8/8/2017 8:12 AM, C R wrote:
I hope Mc has more skills as a developer than as a chat room monitor.
... wha?
One of the best ways of supporting development is to engage the community in a positive way so the developers don't have to spend their time answering routine questions in the many channels of communication that we have available.
Plenty of people to answer questions. Mc is just one of the most helpful right away.
Has anyone found organizational or corporate sources of support?
I'm trying, but my source wants some accountability tied in with the funds. This is actually what sparked the Patreon idea of funding - Patrons are sure where their money is going. Everyone wants something fixed or improved, and the only way to guarantee that is something like Patreon. If devs don't follow up on their promises, the funders can pull funding.
As far as some company that just wants to dump money on the project without any particular fix/requirement/agenda: Nope. Still chasing that unicorn. :)
Stay tuned. -C
Thanks,
Robert Sterbal robert@...3541...mailto:robert@...3541... 412-977-3526 call/text
On 8/8/2017 7:16 AM, Alexander Brock wrote:
On 08/05/2017 05:54 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
We have two developers who are prepared to trial such a system. Tav and Mc (Marc), both attended the hackfest, both have worked on Inkscape intensively for quite a while.
I want to see if it's possible try and get a trial set up quickly. Mc will leave education in 2 months and must decide to continue developing Inkscape or move on to full time employment.
I encourage this plan, I would like to see funded development on Inkscape.
Best Regards, Alexander
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On Tue, 2017-08-08 at 16:03 +0000, Miguel Lopez wrote:
On the Krita side of things, there's one thing we have to offer. Interchangability between Krita vector layer, and Inkscape. This is the first time in open source history where such a thing comes closer to Photoshop and Illustrator interaction. If that can be improved, indirectly Inkscape becomes more viable. There's a way to get Inkscape SVG ported into Krita file. Krita file is essentially a .zip file, and in Krita 4.0 Pre-Alpha, there is content.svg. If you edit that, and then convert the .zip file back to .kra, you have your Inkscape SVG in Krita file. Easy-peasy. Problem with that idea is always development taking so much time, but that is reality. Someway, I do think interactions between software developers is the key to having Inkscape develop at a faster rate. Right now, we do not have much options here. Kickstarters might not help at this stage as Inkscape reputation is decreasing. Likewise, GIMP has that very glaring issue.
Miguel,
Is it decreasing because you think it is, or because you have data to back this up?
I don't mean to be annoyed with you, but please be kinder to the process. We're trying to leverage up our capacity here, but that's a delicate process that needs hope and help.
Inkscape is currently built by part-time developer volunteers. We'd like to move that up to full-time developers. And really, professionals have no good way to ask for anything at the moment, hopefully we can change that and get the needs of users properly accounted for within the funding structure.
But until that's in place. We can't catch-22 the "reputation" of inkscape at this time. Please be patient while we try and get this working.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
There's no way to get all the data in time as it would take a while to extrapolate all the comments in the internet, but I'll tell you that with reddit for example, there has been less positive responses with GIMP funding needs than say other rapid developed open source project overall (at least I seen a person want GIMP as a dead project because he had enough of stagnating development, and then there's another who won't donate to GIMP developers because he doesn't see the point of supporting a stagnating project). In comparison with Affinity Photo, and Krita, GIMP is behind and GIMP has been developed for 15+ years and have loads of web support over the years. And the amount of visitors to GIMP tutorials has decreased over time. Basically, the potential of getting funds reduces over time, and so the overall amount of people who decide to stop using a program. I'll probably come up with data by 5 weeks as I'll be on break there.
As with many projects that has stagnating development, there is bound to be negative responses over time, and some would want certain projects dead because they are literally tired of stagnating development. My point is this is something to be considered when it comes to future development of Inkscape, but as you said, our situation is not quite looking good and it'll get worse over time. It does not help that Inkscape is the only decent open source vector program out there, and Sk1 isn't really acceptable. So, the main question to ask: "What is the earliest viable approach we can start at resolving funding issue?". The earlier, the better.
I forgot to mention another issue that's putting us in a bind. SVG Support throughout web browsers. If SVG Standards can't improve, at some point, we're going to have to sit back and think about whether pursuing the SVG format is worth it, but unfortunately, so many people depend on SVG, and SVG development as a format is stagnating. That's another issue to think about.
On 8/8/2017 12:43 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
On Tue, 2017-08-08 at 16:03 +0000, Miguel Lopez wrote:
On the Krita side of things, there's one thing we have to offer. Interchangability between Krita vector layer, and Inkscape. This is the first time in open source history where such a thing comes closer to Photoshop and Illustrator interaction. If that can be improved, indirectly Inkscape becomes more viable. There's a way to get Inkscape SVG ported into Krita file. Krita file is essentially a .zip file, and in Krita 4.0 Pre-Alpha, there is content.svg. If you edit that, and then convert the .zip file back to .kra, you have your Inkscape SVG in Krita file. Easy-peasy. Problem with that idea is always development taking so much time, but that is reality. Someway, I do think interactions between software developers is the key to having Inkscape develop at a faster rate. Right now, we do not have much options here. Kickstarters might not help at this stage as Inkscape reputation is decreasing. Likewise, GIMP has that very glaring issue.
Miguel,
Is it decreasing because you think it is, or because you have data to back this up?
I don't mean to be annoyed with you, but please be kinder to the process. We're trying to leverage up our capacity here, but that's a delicate process that needs hope and help.
Inkscape is currently built by part-time developer volunteers. We'd like to move that up to full-time developers. And really, professionals have no good way to ask for anything at the moment, hopefully we can change that and get the needs of users properly accounted for within the funding structure.
But until that's in place. We can't catch-22 the "reputation" of inkscape at this time. Please be patient while we try and get this working.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
Miguel,
As the webmaster, I can tell you that the website reports increases in traffic year on year.
Either more people are downloading Inkscape or more people are trolling our website.
But Inkscape is not Gimp, and we don't deserve to be labeled as 'stagnating', if anything, we're a recovering project. Maybe 4 years ago Inkscape was in trouble, with no major release for years and years, an old creaky website, a very small user participation and a fragmented online presence.
Now we have hackfests and excitement and a new marketing team run by a non-developers. We've turned this ship around (or it's still turning but getting there). And we're starting to think about how to rehabilitate svg for ourselves too.
Thusly, I refute your argument as incorrect.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Tue, 2017-08-08 at 20:55 +0000, Miguel Lopez wrote:
There's no way to get all the data in time as it would take a while to extrapolate all the comments in the internet, but I'll tell you that with reddit for example, there has been less positive responses with GIMP funding needs than say other rapid developed open source project overall (at least I seen a person want GIMP as a dead project because he had enough of stagnating development, and then there's another who won't donate to GIMP developers because he doesn't see the point of supporting a stagnating project). In comparison with Affinity Photo, and Krita, GIMP is behind and GIMP has been developed for 15+ years and have loads of web support over the years. And the amount of visitors to GIMP tutorials has decreased over time. Basically, the potential of getting funds reduces over time, and so the overall amount of people who decide to stop using a program. I'll probably come up with data by 5 weeks as I'll be on break there.
As with many projects that has stagnating development, there is bound to be negative responses over time, and some would want certain projects dead because they are literally tired of stagnating development. My point is this is something to be considered when it comes to future development of Inkscape, but as you said, our situation is not quite looking good and it'll get worse over time. It does not help that Inkscape is the only decent open source vector program out there, and Sk1 isn't really acceptable. So, the main question to ask: "What is the earliest viable approach we can start at resolving funding issue?". The earlier, the better.
I forgot to mention another issue that's putting us in a bind. SVG Support throughout web browsers. If SVG Standards can't improve, at some point, we're going to have to sit back and think about whether pursuing the SVG format is worth it, but unfortunately, so many people depend on SVG, and SVG development as a format is stagnating. That's another issue to think about.
On 8/8/2017 12:43 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
On Tue, 2017-08-08 at 16:03 +0000, Miguel Lopez wrote:
On the Krita side of things, there's one thing we have to offer. Interchangability between Krita vector layer, and Inkscape. This is the first time in open source history where such a thing comes closer to Photoshop and Illustrator interaction. If that can be improved, indirectly Inkscape becomes more viable. There's a way to get Inkscape SVG ported into Krita file. Krita file is essentially a .zip file, and in Krita 4.0 Pre-Alpha, there is content.svg. If you edit that, and then convert the .zip file back to .kra, you have your Inkscape SVG in Krita file. Easy-peasy. Problem with that idea is always development taking so much time, but that is reality. Someway, I do think interactions between software developers is the key to having Inkscape develop at a faster rate. Right now, we do not have much options here. Kickstarters might not help at this stage as Inkscape reputation is decreasing. Likewise, GIMP has that very glaring issue.
Miguel,
Is it decreasing because you think it is, or because you have data to back this up?
I don't mean to be annoyed with you, but please be kinder to the process. We're trying to leverage up our capacity here, but that's a delicate process that needs hope and help.
Inkscape is currently built by part-time developer volunteers. We'd like to move that up to full-time developers. And really, professionals have no good way to ask for anything at the moment, hopefully we can change that and get the needs of users properly accounted for within the funding structure.
But until that's in place. We can't catch-22 the "reputation" of inkscape at this time. Please be patient while we try and get this working.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 2:25:23 AM IST Miguel Lopez wrote:
There's no way to get all the data in time as it would take a while to extrapolate all the comments in the internet, but I'll tell you that with reddit for example, there has been less positive responses with GIMP funding needs than say other rapid developed open source project overall (at least I seen a person want GIMP as a dead project because he had enough of stagnating development, and then there's another who won't donate to GIMP developers because he doesn't see the point of supporting a stagnating project).
Take the reddit comments with a pinch of salt, Krita Inkscape and GIMP all have some users who hate them or think that the devs are doing it wrong. We wouldn't want to discourage the existing developers by taking some strange troll reddit users comment seriously. They have the right to have their opinion but don't generalise it.
In comparison with Affinity Photo, and Krita, GIMP is behind and GIMP has been developed for 15+ years and have loads of web support over the years. And the amount of visitors to GIMP tutorials has decreased over time.
Actually if you try GIMP 2.9 there are loads of feature in it. but it is not yet available in the distribution channel, it is still in beta, although you can use it without any problem. It has high bit depth support, good painting tools, and yesterday they added a new blend mode called passthrough to improve psd compatibility. See not a stangnant or dead project. Just because the reddit user is ignorant and not competent enough to look into the development going on in the project, doesn't mean it is dead.
I agree that they take their time, but the reason for that is they have less developers to work on things like any other opensource software. We can't expect a dozen of developers competing against the speed of may be thousand developers working in an assembly line styled development model backed with immense money of propreitary software. Have patience is all I can say :)
Basically, the potential of getting funds reduces over time,
That partly may be because opensource projects don't have a PR or marketing team, somehow we fall short in communicating or generating the buzz. May be learning from libreoffice marketing team or blender foundation may help?
I would like to know how much would it cost to implement CMYK professional support inside Inkscape.
I would LOVE, and will try to put my money where my mouth is, to see CMYK in Inkscape to enable it to be used more and more by design professionals everywhere.
--Victor Westmann
2017-08-08 20:49 GMT-07:00 Raghavendra Kamath <raghu@...3496...>:
On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 2:25:23 AM IST Miguel Lopez wrote:
There's no way to get all the data in time as it would take a while to extrapolate all the comments in the internet, but I'll tell you that with reddit for example, there has been less positive responses with GIMP funding needs than say other rapid developed open source project overall (at least I seen a person want GIMP as a dead project because he had enough of stagnating development, and then there's another who won't donate to GIMP developers because he doesn't see the point of supporting a stagnating project).
Take the reddit comments with a pinch of salt, Krita Inkscape and GIMP all have some users who hate them or think that the devs are doing it wrong. We wouldn't want to discourage the existing developers by taking some strange troll reddit users comment seriously. They have the right to have their opinion but don't generalise it.
In comparison with Affinity Photo, and Krita, GIMP is behind and GIMP has been developed for 15+ years and have loads of web support over the years. And the amount of visitors to GIMP tutorials has decreased over time.
Actually if you try GIMP 2.9 there are loads of feature in it. but it is not yet available in the distribution channel, it is still in beta, although you can use it without any problem. It has high bit depth support, good painting tools, and yesterday they added a new blend mode called passthrough to improve psd compatibility. See not a stangnant or dead project. Just because the reddit user is ignorant and not competent enough to look into the development going on in the project, doesn't mean it is dead.
I agree that they take their time, but the reason for that is they have less developers to work on things like any other opensource software. We can't expect a dozen of developers competing against the speed of may be thousand developers working in an assembly line styled development model backed with immense money of propreitary software. Have patience is all I can say :)
Basically, the potential of getting funds reduces over time,
That partly may be because opensource projects don't have a PR or marketing team, somehow we fall short in communicating or generating the buzz. May be learning from libreoffice marketing team or blender foundation may help?
-- Raghavendra Kamath Illustrator raghukamath.com
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Actually if you try GIMP 2.9 there are loads of feature in it. but it is not yet available in the distribution channel, it is still in beta, although you can use it without any problem. It has high bit depth support, good painting tools, and yesterday they added a new blend mode called passthrough to improve psd compatibility. See not a stangnant or dead project. Just because the reddit user is ignorant and not competent enough to look into the development going on in the project, doesn't mean it is dead.
Those are the stuff that Krita already supported more than a decade ago, and Affinity Photo started some while ago, but still ahead of GIMP. On the open source world, Krita is slowly becoming on it way to becoming the standard raster application, and their brush tools can be used for image-editing with g'mic, and yes you will find people who prefer Krita for image-editing given it has things GIMP is missing out on and a lot in common with GIMP. (Krita selection tools are not very good, but workaround exists to not touching Krita selection tools, and you can extract hairs with intrusive background in Krita (with a lot of pain, and patience of course) Unlike GIMP, Affinity Photo and Krita supports nondestructive editing, and those two programs are way behind Photoshop in terms of feature engine rather than feature set. Heck, Krita supports CMYK, LAB, XYZ, and so on, but I'd imagine most people just stick with RGB, and those who use Krita for image-editing strongly benefits from using LAB when using tools to fix up images. It's not really wrong to call GIMP a stagnant project given it history and how it fares in comparison with its "competitors" and their history, but I will say that it is definitely in a better position these day, and it is definitely recovering.
That partly may be because opensource projects don't have a PR or marketing team, somehow we fall short in communicating or generating the buzz. May be learning from libreoffice marketing team or blender foundation may help?
I think we can learn from other projects and see how we can get there, but the earlier the better. The more the delay, the less the potential of revenue. And yeah, that issue with open source project is not really a simple problem. Nothing is in reality.
On 8/8/2017 11:49 PM, Raghavendra Kamath wrote:
Actually if you try GIMP 2.9 there are loads of feature in it. but it is not yet available in the distribution channel, it is still in beta, although you can use it without any problem. It has high bit depth support, good painting tools, and yesterday they added a new blend mode called passthrough to improve psd compatibility. See not a stangnant or dead project. Just because the reddit user is ignorant and not competent enough to look into the development going on in the project, doesn't mean it is dead.
Patreon is our first step towards funded development. It offers the most direct benefit without tying up our developers and other contributors in the legal battles associated with becoming a non profit company. Krita's team had to postpone promised features of the last kickstarter to deal with the tax issues. The answer is not to leap headlong into uncharted waters because it sounds like a good idea. We are building momentum in a way that makes sense for the Inkscape project. Please be patient.
There is no magic formula for success. Krita devs will be the first to tell you this!
Thanks. -C
On 10 Aug 2017 03:23, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
Actually if you try GIMP 2.9 there are loads of feature in it. but it is not yet available in the distribution channel, it is still in beta, although you can use it without any problem. It has high bit depth support, good painting tools, and yesterday they added a new blend mode called passthrough to improve psd compatibility. See not a stangnant or dead project. Just because the reddit user is ignorant and not competent enough to look into the development going on in the project, doesn't mean it is dead.
Those are the stuff that Krita already supported more than a decade ago, and Affinity Photo started some while ago, but still ahead of GIMP. On the open source world, Krita is slowly becoming on it way to becoming the standard raster application, and their brush tools can be used for image-editing with g'mic, and yes you will find people who prefer Krita for image-editing given it has things GIMP is missing out on and a lot in common with GIMP. *(Krita selection tools are not very good, but workaround exists to not touching Krita selection tools, and you can extract hairs with intrusive background in Krita (with a lot of pain, and patience of course)* Unlike GIMP, Affinity Photo and Krita supports nondestructive editing, and those two programs are way behind Photoshop in terms of feature engine rather than feature set. Heck, Krita supports CMYK, LAB, XYZ, and so on, but I'd imagine most people just stick with RGB, and those who use Krita for image-editing strongly benefits from using LAB when using tools to fix up images. It's not really wrong to call GIMP a stagnant project given it history and how it fares in comparison with its "competitors" and their history, but I will say that it is definitely in a better position these day, and it is definitely recovering.
That partly may be because opensource projects don't have a PR or marketing team, somehow we fall short in communicating or generating the buzz. May be learning from libreoffice marketing team or blender foundation may help?
I think we can learn from other projects and see how we can get there, but the earlier the better. The more the delay, the less the potential of revenue. And yeah, that issue with open source project is not really a simple problem. Nothing is in reality. On 8/8/2017 11:49 PM, Raghavendra Kamath wrote:
Actually if you try GIMP 2.9 there are loads of feature in it. but it is not yet available in the distribution channel, it is still in beta, although you can use it without any problem. It has high bit depth support, good painting tools, and yesterday they added a new blend mode called passthrough to improve psd compatibility. See not a stangnant or dead project. Just because the reddit user is ignorant and not competent enough to look into the development going on in the project, doesn't mean it is dead.
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Patreon is definitely our first step, but on the social network side of the thing, I believe we need get people helping us with funding there as much as places where it is suitable. Does anyone have suggestion on what places to go for? I'd believe some explanation about our situation, and how we'd like to improve would increase incentives for people to fund us.
I have thought out facebook, official inkscape website, reddit, twitter.
On the reddit side of the thing, there has to be at least posting about developers' patreon page on r/linux, r/inkscape, and so on if there's more.
What I'm saying, we need to make as much presence as possible in order to show that we are definitely into improvement.
On 8/10/2017 2:52 AM, C R wrote: Patreon is our first step towards funded development. It offers the most direct benefit without tying up our developers and other contributors in the legal battles associated with becoming a non profit company. Krita's team had to postpone promised features of the last kickstarter to deal with the tax issues. The answer is not to leap headlong into uncharted waters because it sounds like a good idea. We are building momentum in a way that makes sense for the Inkscape project. Please be patient.
There is no magic formula for success. Krita devs will be the first to tell you this!
Thanks. -C
On 10 Aug 2017 03:23, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...mailto:reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
Actually if you try GIMP 2.9 there are loads of feature in it. but it is not yet available in the distribution channel, it is still in beta, although you can use it without any problem. It has high bit depth support, good painting tools, and yesterday they added a new blend mode called passthrough to improve psd compatibility. See not a stangnant or dead project. Just because the reddit user is ignorant and not competent enough to look into the development going on in the project, doesn't mean it is dead.
Those are the stuff that Krita already supported more than a decade ago, and Affinity Photo started some while ago, but still ahead of GIMP. On the open source world, Krita is slowly becoming on it way to becoming the standard raster application, and their brush tools can be used for image-editing with g'mic, and yes you will find people who prefer Krita for image-editing given it has things GIMP is missing out on and a lot in common with GIMP. (Krita selection tools are not very good, but workaround exists to not touching Krita selection tools, and you can extract hairs with intrusive background in Krita (with a lot of pain, and patience of course) Unlike GIMP, Affinity Photo and Krita supports nondestructive editing, and those two programs are way behind Photoshop in terms of feature engine rather than feature set. Heck, Krita supports CMYK, LAB, XYZ, and so on, but I'd imagine most people just stick with RGB, and those who use Krita for image-editing strongly benefits from using LAB when using tools to fix up images. It's not really wrong to call GIMP a stagnant project given it history and how it fares in comparison with its "competitors" and their history, but I will say that it is definitely in a better position these day, and it is definitely recovering.
That partly may be because opensource projects don't have a PR or marketing team, somehow we fall short in communicating or generating the buzz. May be learning from libreoffice marketing team or blender foundation may help?
I think we can learn from other projects and see how we can get there, but the earlier the better. The more the delay, the less the potential of revenue. And yeah, that issue with open source project is not really a simple problem. Nothing is in reality.
On 8/8/2017 11:49 PM, Raghavendra Kamath wrote:
Actually if you try GIMP 2.9 there are loads of feature in it. but it is not yet available in the distribution channel, it is still in beta, although you can use it without any problem. It has high bit depth support, good painting tools, and yesterday they added a new blend mode called passthrough to improve psd compatibility. See not a stangnant or dead project. Just because the reddit user is ignorant and not competent enough to look into the development going on in the project, doesn't mean it is dead.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.netmailto:Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
I'm not really sure what this is referring to, but I can vouch for Mc as a highly valued and very active member of the developers team. He has also done great work in bringing the developer community together through jointly organising the Hackfest this year.
AV
On 8 August 2017 at 13:03, Robert Sterbal <rsterbal@...714...> wrote:
I hope Mc has more skills as a developer than as a chat room monitor.
One of the best ways of supporting development is to engage the community in a positive way so the developers don't have to spend their time answering routine questions in the many channels of communication that we have available.
Has anyone found organizational or corporate sources of support?
Thanks,
Robert Sterbal robert@...3541... 412-977-3526 call/text
On 8/8/2017 7:16 AM, Alexander Brock wrote:
On 08/05/2017 05:54 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
We have two developers who are prepared to trial such a system. Tav and Mc (Marc), both attended the hackfest, both have worked on Inkscape intensively for quite a while.
I want to see if it's possible try and get a trial set up quickly. Mc will leave education in 2 months and must decide to continue developing Inkscape or move on to full time employment.
I encourage this plan, I would like to see funded development on Inkscape.
Best Regards, Alexander
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+10
On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 1:14 PM, Alex Valavanis <valavanisalex@...400...> wrote:
I'm not really sure what this is referring to, but I can vouch for Mc as a highly valued and very active member of the developers team. He has also done great work in bringing the developer community together through jointly organising the Hackfest this year.
AV
On 8 August 2017 at 13:03, Robert Sterbal <rsterbal@...714...> wrote:
I hope Mc has more skills as a developer than as a chat room monitor.
One of the best ways of supporting development is to engage the community in a positive way so the developers don't have to spend their time answering routine questions in the many channels of communication that we have available.
Has anyone found organizational or corporate sources of support?
Thanks,
Robert Sterbal robert@...3541... 412-977-3526 call/text
On 8/8/2017 7:16 AM, Alexander Brock wrote:
On 08/05/2017 05:54 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
We have two developers who are prepared to trial such a system. Tav and Mc (Marc), both attended the hackfest, both have worked on Inkscape intensively for quite a while.
I want to see if it's possible try and get a trial set up quickly. Mc will leave education in 2 months and must decide to continue developing Inkscape or move on to full time employment.
I encourage this plan, I would like to see funded development on Inkscape.
Best Regards, Alexander
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Oh, and in additional to my last e-mail. There's another issue of popularity between medias. Raster programs are more popular than vector programs. That's a fact that can't be avoided. Plus, most people start out with raster program. That could affect fundings.
On 8/8/2017 9:09 AM, C R wrote:
+10
On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 1:14 PM, Alex Valavanis <valavanisalex@...400...> wrote:
I'm not really sure what this is referring to, but I can vouch for Mc as a highly valued and very active member of the developers team. He has also done great work in bringing the developer community together through jointly organising the Hackfest this year.
AV
On 8 August 2017 at 13:03, Robert Sterbal <rsterbal@...714...> wrote:
I hope Mc has more skills as a developer than as a chat room monitor.
One of the best ways of supporting development is to engage the community in a positive way so the developers don't have to spend their time answering routine questions in the many channels of communication that we have available.
Has anyone found organizational or corporate sources of support?
Thanks,
Robert Sterbal robert@...3541... 412-977-3526 call/text
On 8/8/2017 7:16 AM, Alexander Brock wrote:
On 08/05/2017 05:54 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
We have two developers who are prepared to trial such a system. Tav and Mc (Marc), both attended the hackfest, both have worked on Inkscape intensively for quite a while.
I want to see if it's possible try and get a trial set up quickly. Mc will leave education in 2 months and must decide to continue developing Inkscape or move on to full time employment.
I encourage this plan, I would like to see funded development on Inkscape.
Best Regards, Alexander
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I think we come up short in supporting the community and rely too much on the developers to do that work
On Aug 8, 2017, at 9:09 AM, C R <cajhne@...400...> wrote:
+10
On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 1:14 PM, Alex Valavanis <valavanisalex@...400...> wrote: I'm not really sure what this is referring to, but I can vouch for Mc as a highly valued and very active member of the developers team. He has also done great work in bringing the developer community together through jointly organising the Hackfest this year.
AV
On 8 August 2017 at 13:03, Robert Sterbal <rsterbal@...714...> wrote:
I hope Mc has more skills as a developer than as a chat room monitor.
One of the best ways of supporting development is to engage the community in a positive way so the developers don't have to spend their time answering routine questions in the many channels of communication that we have available.
Has anyone found organizational or corporate sources of support?
Thanks,
Robert Sterbal robert@...3541... 412-977-3526 call/text
On 8/8/2017 7:16 AM, Alexander Brock wrote:
On 08/05/2017 05:54 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
We have two developers who are prepared to trial such a system. Tav and Mc (Marc), both attended the hackfest, both have worked on Inkscape intensively for quite a while.
I want to see if it's possible try and get a trial set up quickly. Mc will leave education in 2 months and must decide to continue developing Inkscape or move on to full time employment.
I encourage this plan, I would like to see funded development on Inkscape.
Best Regards, Alexander
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+100 for funded development. ;-)
Love to the entire Inkscape community. You guys are making history!
--Victor Westmann
2017-08-08 6:09 GMT-07:00 C R <cajhne@...400...>:
+10
On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 1:14 PM, Alex Valavanis <valavanisalex@...400...> wrote:
I'm not really sure what this is referring to, but I can vouch for Mc as
a
highly valued and very active member of the developers team. He has also done great work in bringing the developer community together through
jointly
organising the Hackfest this year.
AV
On 8 August 2017 at 13:03, Robert Sterbal <rsterbal@...714...> wrote:
I hope Mc has more skills as a developer than as a chat room monitor.
One of the best ways of supporting development is to engage the
community
in a positive way so the developers don't have to spend their time
answering
routine questions in the many channels of communication that we have available.
Has anyone found organizational or corporate sources of support?
Thanks,
Robert Sterbal robert@...3541... 412-977-3526 call/text
On 8/8/2017 7:16 AM, Alexander Brock wrote:
On 08/05/2017 05:54 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
We have two developers who are prepared to trial such a system. Tav
and
Mc (Marc), both attended the hackfest, both have worked on Inkscape intensively for quite a while.
I want to see if it's possible try and get a trial set up quickly. Mc will leave education in 2 months and must decide to continue
developing
Inkscape or move on to full time employment.
I encourage this plan, I would like to see funded development on Inkscape.
Best Regards, Alexander
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participants (10)
-
Alex Valavanis -
Alexander Brock -
C R -
Jabier Arraiza -
Martin Owens -
Miguel Lopez -
Raghavendra Kamath -
Robert Sterbal -
Robert＠...3541... -
Victor Westmann