Devs,
Launchpad have allowed my request for a downlaods size exception to expire. (which I'm not happy about) But this does leave us with an important todo item, we must find a new home for our downloads before the 0.91 release because of the very unsafe nature that sourceforge has become.
We do know these things:
* Launchpad can only host our windows and source packages, Max OSX is too large. * Our website would not cope with our download traffic. * We have no mirrors, official or otherwise.
If you have any ideas how we can solve this problem, please discuss here.
Martin Owens,
On Fri, 2014-11-28 at 07:42 -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
Devs,
Launchpad have allowed my request for a downlaods size exception to expire. (which I'm not happy about) But this does leave us with an important todo item, we must find a new home for our downloads before the 0.91 release because of the very unsafe nature that sourceforge has become.
We do know these things:
- Launchpad can only host our windows and source packages, Max OSX is
too large.
- Our website would not cope with our download traffic.
- We have no mirrors, official or otherwise.
If you have any ideas how we can solve this problem, please discuss here.
How much space is needed?
It may be possible to set a torrent as the preferred download method, like gimp does ? That may save a lot of the download traffic.
Mc
----- Mail original ----- De: "Martin Owens" <doctormo@...400...> À: "Inkscape Developer Mailing List" <inkscape-devel@...1239....net> Envoyé: Vendredi 28 Novembre 2014 13:42:15 Objet: [Inkscape-devel] Downloads Exception
[...]
* Launchpad can only host our windows and source packages, Max OSX is too large. * Our website would not cope with our download traffic. * We have no mirrors, official or otherwise.
If you have any ideas how we can solve this problem, please discuss here.
Martin Owens,
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On 28/11/14 13:57, Tavmjong Bah wrote:
On Fri, 2014-11-28 at 07:42 -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
If you have any ideas how we can solve this problem, please discuss here.
How much space is needed?
Roughly 350MB (judging from http://sourceforge.net/projects/inkscape/files/inkscape/0.48.5/) I think the bigger problem ist we currently have ~72k Download per week => 3TB traffic => 5MB/s mean traffic When 0.91 is released and everybody is noticed by their favorite news site about the new version I expect this to increase by at least an order of magnitude => 120TB traffic / month.
I read somewhere (can't find it atm) that you can make a torrent file which includes direct http download links so torrent clients can get the file from webservers if no one is seeding. This means if we can get some mirrors we could state that the torrent almost surely downloads faster than the direct download and don't worry about single mirrors being shut down because of too much traffic, it will still work.
Alexander
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 6:03 AM, Alexander Brock <a.brock@...2965...> wrote:
I read somewhere (can't find it atm) that you can make a torrent file which includes direct http download links so torrent clients can get the file from webservers if no one is seeding. This means if we can get some mirrors we could state that the torrent almost surely downloads faster than the direct download and don't worry about single mirrors being shut down because of too much traffic, it will still work.
I don't think that bringing bittorrent in as a recommended method is a good idea. We have a very diverse userbase and I don't think that anything which could possibly make a download less straightforward is a good idea.
Cheers, Josh
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Martin Owens <doctormo@...400...> wrote:
Devs,
Launchpad have allowed my request for a downlaods size exception to expire. (which I'm not happy about) But this does leave us with an important todo item, we must find a new home for our downloads before the 0.91 release because of the very unsafe nature that sourceforge has become.
Was there human interaction involved in the expiration other than them not extending it? Have you asked them for another one?
We do know these things:
- Launchpad can only host our windows and source packages, Max OSX is
too large.
- Our website would not cope with our download traffic.
- We have no mirrors, official or otherwise.
If you have any ideas how we can solve this problem, please discuss here.
I will ping Bradley with SFC as we know he is aware of the SF issue and he might have some ideas.
Cheers, Josh
On Fri, 2014-11-28 at 09:24 -0800, Josh Andler wrote:
Was there human interaction involved in the expiration other than them not extending it? Have you asked them for another one?
Sorry, yes it was an automatic process.
I think we have room for torrents as a favoured method, it doesn't have to make things vastly more complex. That's just going to be presentation. I like the idea of our mirrors being in the torrent though, that's very cool.
Martin,
On Nov 28, 2014 12:39 PM, "Martin Owens" <doctormo@...400...> wrote:
I think we have room for torrents as a favoured method, it doesn't have to make things vastly more complex. That's just going to be presentation. I like the idea of our mirrors being in the torrent though, that's very cool.
Scrapbookers and grade school children... we have a number of users in these groups (among other less tech-savvy groups). Unless you know of a way to torrent without requiring a special application for it, it's just a potential source of confusion for these people.
If I go to download something on someone else's computer for them or give them a link it's going to be a direct download. Even for myself I only opt for torrent downloads for large files or in special cases. I don't think I'm alone in that.
I'm not saying I'm against torrents as an option. It's just less straight forward than it should be for the average user and I'm not sure how prominent of an option it should be.
Cheers, Josh
There's also the possibility to ask fastly or an equivalent CDN ( http://www.fastly.com/about/open-source/ , if i understand correctly, debian, osm, and python already use it )
Thanks for the suggestion. I just sent an email over to Fastly to inquire further.
Cheers, Josh On Nov 28, 2014 3:30 PM, "Marc Jeanmougin" <marc@...3062...> wrote:
There's also the possibility to ask fastly or an equivalent CDN ( http://www.fastly.com/about/open-source/ , if i understand correctly, debian, osm, and python already use it )
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On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 09:17:27AM -0800, Josh Andler wrote:
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 6:03 AM, Alexander Brock <a.brock@...2965...> wrote:
I read somewhere (can't find it atm) that you can make a torrent file which includes direct http download links so torrent clients can get the file from webservers if no one is seeding. This means if we can get some mirrors we could state that the torrent almost surely downloads faster than the direct download and don't worry about single mirrors being shut down because of too much traffic, it will still work.
I don't think that bringing bittorrent in as a recommended method is a good idea. We have a very diverse userbase and I don't think that anything which could possibly make a download less straightforward is a good idea.
Ubuntu uses bittorrent[1] and the process is fairly smooth - the .torrent files are recognized locally and are loaded up into the appropriate Torrent download utility. It isn't presented as a primary way of downloading Ubuntu, you kind of have to seek the option out.
In the same way, I don't think this should be a primary mechanism for Inkscape download, but I *do* think it is worth inclusion as an option. Often it is _the_ fastest way to download Ubuntu ISOs and has the benefit of being the least impactful on our infrastructure.
Bryce
Just a quick note from someone from a "less tech-savvy groups".... as well as someone who would potentially be helping other less tech-savvy people in forums. What's a torrent?
Of course I'll be looking it up here shortly. And I'll be glad to help other people, once I understand it myself.
Maybe it could be one option, among the usual straight-forward download options.?
All best :-)
From: Josh Andler Sent: Friday, November 28, 2014 3:02 PM To: Martin Owens Cc: Inkscape Devel List Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Downloads Exception
On Nov 28, 2014 12:39 PM, "Martin Owens" <doctormo@...400...> wrote:
I think we have room for torrents as a favoured method, it doesn't have to make things vastly more complex. That's just going to be presentation. I like the idea of our mirrors being in the torrent though, that's very cool.
Scrapbookers and grade school children... we have a number of users in these groups (among other less tech-savvy groups). Unless you know of a way to torrent without requiring a special application for it, it's just a potential source of confusion for these people. If I go to download something on someone else's computer for them or give them a link it's going to be a direct download. Even for myself I only opt for torrent downloads for large files or in special cases. I don't think I'm alone in that. I'm not saying I'm against torrents as an option. It's just less straight forward than it should be for the average user and I'm not sure how prominent of an option it should be. Cheers, Josh
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751&iu=/4140/ostg.cl...
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I just asked in Tilaa's freenode channel (tilaa.com) if they do any sponsoring but they don't, but at the same time I got a response from another Tilaa user that DigitalOcean sponsors an inoffical mirror och GNU Octave at [1]. I haven't followed up on this suggestion so if anyone else wants to ask DigitalOcean feel free to do so.
On the other hand Tilaa don't have any set limitation on bandwidth usage but a clause in the terms of usage that they can limit it if its way too big so if paying for a VPS is enough for them to allow it to act as Inkscape mirror. It might be worth going forward with, but some more specific numbers on traffic would be needed when initiating a conversation with Tilaa.
[1] http://mxeoctave.osuv.de/ -- Christoffer Holmstedt
2014-11-29 11:32 GMT+01:00 Brynn <brynn@...3133...>:
Just a quick note from someone from a "less tech-savvy groups".... as well as someone who would potentially be helping other less tech-savvy people in forums. What's a torrent?
Of course I'll be looking it up here shortly. And I'll be glad to help other people, once I understand it myself.
Maybe it could be one option, among the usual straight-forward download options.?
All best :-)
From: Josh Andler Sent: Friday, November 28, 2014 3:02 PM To: Martin Owens Cc: Inkscape Devel List Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Downloads Exception
On Nov 28, 2014 12:39 PM, "Martin Owens" <doctormo@...400...> wrote:
I think we have room for torrents as a favoured method, it doesn't have to make things vastly more complex. That's just going to be presentation. I like the idea of our mirrors being in the torrent though, that's very cool.
Scrapbookers and grade school children... we have a number of users in these groups (among other less tech-savvy groups). Unless you know of a way to torrent without requiring a special application for it, it's just a potential source of confusion for these people. If I go to download something on someone else's computer for them or give them a link it's going to be a direct download. Even for myself I only opt for torrent downloads for large files or in special cases. I don't think I'm alone in that. I'm not saying I'm against torrents as an option. It's just less straight forward than it should be for the average user and I'm not sure how prominent of an option it should be. Cheers, Josh
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751&iu=/4140/ostg.cl...
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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How about we put a project on codeplex to host the downloads? I really like the idea of microsoft paying for our downloads bandwidth.
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Christoffer Holmstedt < christoffer.holmstedt@...400...> wrote:
I just asked in Tilaa's freenode channel (tilaa.com) if they do any sponsoring but they don't, but at the same time I got a response from another Tilaa user that DigitalOcean sponsors an inoffical mirror och GNU Octave at [1]. I haven't followed up on this suggestion so if anyone else wants to ask DigitalOcean feel free to do so.
On the other hand Tilaa don't have any set limitation on bandwidth usage but a clause in the terms of usage that they can limit it if its way too big so if paying for a VPS is enough for them to allow it to act as Inkscape mirror. It might be worth going forward with, but some more specific numbers on traffic would be needed when initiating a conversation with Tilaa.
[1] http://mxeoctave.osuv.de/
Christoffer Holmstedt
2014-11-29 11:32 GMT+01:00 Brynn <brynn@...3133...>:
Just a quick note from someone from a "less tech-savvy groups".... as
well
as someone who would potentially be helping other less tech-savvy people
in
forums. What's a torrent?
Of course I'll be looking it up here shortly. And I'll be glad to help other people, once I understand it myself.
Maybe it could be one option, among the usual straight-forward download options.?
All best :-)
From: Josh Andler Sent: Friday, November 28, 2014 3:02 PM To: Martin Owens Cc: Inkscape Devel List Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Downloads Exception
On Nov 28, 2014 12:39 PM, "Martin Owens" <doctormo@...400...> wrote:
I think we have room for torrents as a favoured method, it doesn't have to make things vastly more complex. That's just going to be presentation. I like the idea of our mirrors being in the torrent though, that's very cool.
Scrapbookers and grade school children... we have a number of users in
these
groups (among other less tech-savvy groups). Unless you know of a way to torrent without requiring a special application for it, it's just a potential source of confusion for these people. If I go to download something on someone else's computer for them or give them a link it's going to be a direct download. Even for myself I only
opt
for torrent downloads for large files or in special cases. I don't think
I'm
alone in that. I'm not saying I'm against torrents as an option. It's just less straight forward than it should be for the average user and I'm not sure how prominent of an option it should be. Cheers, Josh
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
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Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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Hi,
As Christoffer suggested, I've collected data from Sourceforge, and have come up with a spreadsheet (ods) showing all the downloads of major Inkscape versions for source / win / mac builds since january 2008.
the file is here : https://inkscape.org/fr/gallery/item/2528/
To sum up, the results are :
1) the Windows builds are hugely the most downloaded, so if they can be hosted on GitHub, most of the work is done. (+ an optional bittorent for the more advanced users).
2) the maximum downloads per month were in january 2011, for the win version of 0.48, just a bit shy of 1M/month, which represents 33,1 TB that month.
3) I was surprised to find out that the numbers of mac downloads for 0.48.5 was about 1/4 of the number of win downloads, so it's getting more and more significative.
Regards, Edouard
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 15:24:41 +0000 From: john.cliff@...400... To: christoffer.holmstedt@...400... CC: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Downloads Exception
How about we put a project on codeplex to host the downloads? I really like the idea of microsoft paying for our downloads bandwidth. On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Christoffer Holmstedt <christoffer.holmstedt@...400...> wrote: I just asked in Tilaa's freenode channel (tilaa.com) if they do any
sponsoring but they don't, but at the same time I got a response from
another Tilaa user that DigitalOcean sponsors an inoffical mirror och
GNU Octave at [1]. I haven't followed up on this suggestion so if
anyone else wants to ask DigitalOcean feel free to do so.
On the other hand Tilaa don't have any set limitation on bandwidth
usage but a clause in the terms of usage that they can limit it if its
way too big so if paying for a VPS is enough for them to allow it to
act as Inkscape mirror. It might be worth going forward with, but some
more specific numbers on traffic would be needed when initiating a
conversation with Tilaa.
--
Christoffer Holmstedt
2014-11-29 11:32 GMT+01:00 Brynn <brynn@...3133...>:
Just a quick note from someone from a "less tech-savvy groups".... as well
as someone who would potentially be helping other less tech-savvy people in
forums. What's a torrent?
Of course I'll be looking it up here shortly. And I'll be glad to help
other people, once I understand it myself.
Maybe it could be one option, among the usual straight-forward download
options.?
All best :-)
From: Josh Andler
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2014 3:02 PM
To: Martin Owens
Cc: Inkscape Devel List
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Downloads Exception
On Nov 28, 2014 12:39 PM, "Martin Owens" <doctormo@...400...> wrote:
I think we have room for torrents as a favoured method, it doesn't have
to make things vastly more complex. That's just going to be
presentation. I like the idea of our mirrors being in the torrent
though, that's very cool.
Scrapbookers and grade school children... we have a number of users in these
groups (among other less tech-savvy groups). Unless you know of a way to
torrent without requiring a special application for it, it's just a
potential source of confusion for these people.
If I go to download something on someone else's computer for them or give
them a link it's going to be a direct download. Even for myself I only opt
for torrent downloads for large files or in special cases. I don't think I'm
alone in that.
I'm not saying I'm against torrents as an option. It's just less straight
forward than it should be for the average user and I'm not sure how
prominent of an option it should be.
Cheers,
Josh
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
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Inkscape-devel mailing list
Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
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from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
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Inkscape-devel mailing list
Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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Hi everyone
I don't think bittorent as a good solution; I know very few people using it so even if it's an option i guess it cannot be the main solution.
A point that has not been considered is having local mirrors that could allow downloads on smaller server. We could redirect by detecting IPs. But we'd have to manage all this.
I'm not really found in tech and specs but i could propose this. yemanjalisa (Elisa) and i have build up a french graphic designer association that promotes free software in profesionnal use. In that context, we could rent a server. We already have a website, we could just make a download page (in fact we were already thinking about it for months :) )
So what could we have ? 1x Intel® Xeon® E3 1220 v2 16 Go DDR3 ECC 2x 1 To SATA bandwidth up to 1 Gbit/s minimum bandwidth guaranted 150 Mbit/s illimited traffic
We could have that at a reasonable price.
other point, we are really ready to pay for this if need and would we proud of it. But during LGM we were wondering how to use inkscape donations. Couldn't it be used for that (personnal i'd prefer use inkscape money to pay developers, of course).
As a long time linux user i'd prefer not having to contribute to Apple's benefits. We agree it's just for Inkscape :)
Cheers pygmee
----- Mail original ----- De: "Eddy StEsprit" <edwsaintesprit@...19...> À: "John Cliff" <john.cliff@...400...>, "Christoffer Holmstedt" <christoffer.holmstedt@...400...> Cc: "Inkscape Devel List" inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Envoyé: Samedi 29 Novembre 2014 20:41:05 Objet: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Downloads Exception
Hi,
As Christoffer suggested, I've collected data from Sourceforge, and have come up with a spreadsheet (ods) showing all the downloads of major Inkscape versions for source / win / mac builds since january 2008.
the file is here : https://inkscape.org/fr/gallery/item/2528/
To sum up, the results are :
1) the Windows builds are hugely the most downloaded, so if they can be hosted on GitHub, most of the work is done. (+ an optional bittorent for the more advanced users).
2) the maximum downloads per month were in january 2011, for the win version of 0.48, just a bit shy of 1M/month, which represents 33,1 TB that month.
3) I was surprised to find out that the numbers of mac downloads for 0.48.5 was about 1/4 of the number of win downloads, so it's getting more and more significative.
Regards, Edouard
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 15:24:41 +0000 From: john.cliff@...400... To: christoffer.holmstedt@...400... CC: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Downloads Exception
How about we put a project on codeplex to host the downloads? I really like the idea of microsoft paying for our downloads bandwidth.
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Christoffer Holmstedt < christoffer.holmstedt@...400... > wrote:
I just asked in Tilaa's freenode channel ( tilaa.com ) if they do any sponsoring but they don't, but at the same time I got a response from another Tilaa user that DigitalOcean sponsors an inoffical mirror och GNU Octave at [1]. I haven't followed up on this suggestion so if anyone else wants to ask DigitalOcean feel free to do so.
On the other hand Tilaa don't have any set limitation on bandwidth usage but a clause in the terms of usage that they can limit it if its way too big so if paying for a VPS is enough for them to allow it to act as Inkscape mirror. It might be worth going forward with, but some more specific numbers on traffic would be needed when initiating a conversation with Tilaa.
On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 22:36 +0100, pygmee wrote:
Hi everyone
I don't think bittorent as a good solution; I know very few people using it so even if it's an option i guess it cannot be the main solution.
A point that has not been considered is having local mirrors that could allow downloads on smaller server. We could redirect by detecting IPs. But we'd have to manage all this.
I'm not really found in tech and specs but i could propose this. yemanjalisa (Elisa) and i have build up a french graphic designer association that promotes free software in profesionnal use. In that context, we could rent a server. We already have a website, we could just make a download page (in fact we were already thinking about it for months :) )
So what could we have ? 1x Intel® Xeon® E3 1220 v2 16 Go DDR3 ECC 2x 1 To SATA bandwidth up to 1 Gbit/s minimum bandwidth guaranted 150 Mbit/s illimited traffic
This should handle a good fraction of the initial onslaught (~400 Mbit/s?). And it should be sufficient after the first month.
We could have that at a reasonable price.
other point, we are really ready to pay for this if need and would we proud of it. But during LGM we were wondering how to use inkscape donations. Couldn't it be used for that (personnal i'd prefer use inkscape money to pay developers, of course).
I think this is something that would be a valid use of Inkscape donations. What would be the cost?
Another possibility is that my Internet provider (free.fr) offers a free download service for large files. I have never tried it. They advertise:
Maximum file size: 10 GBytes Unlimited number of files Unlimited downloads Files retained for 30 days after last download.
On Fri, 2014-11-28 at 07:42 -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
Devs,
Launchpad have allowed my request for a downlaods size exception to expire. (which I'm not happy about) But this does leave us with an important todo item, we must find a new home for our downloads before the 0.91 release because of the very unsafe nature that sourceforge has become.
We do know these things:
- Launchpad can only host our windows and source packages, Max OSX is
too large.
- Our website would not cope with our download traffic.
- We have no mirrors, official or otherwise.
If you have any ideas how we can solve this problem, please discuss here.
From the discussion I think we can conclude:
1. We really don't know what demand to expect but need to prepare for an onslaught in the first month.
2. We should have multiple download options as we don't know which will work well and which won't. We should ask that people link to the our download page rather than to a particular download site. This will allow us to add/remove sites as needed.
I've collected all the ideas from the email thread and have put them on a wiki page:
http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Download_Strategies
Tav
Thanks for setting up that page! I'm not contributing anything other than a thank you here. :)
On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 1:06 AM, Tavmjong Bah <tavmjong@...8...> wrote:
On Fri, 2014-11-28 at 07:42 -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
Devs,
Launchpad have allowed my request for a downlaods size exception to expire. (which I'm not happy about) But this does leave us with an important todo item, we must find a new home for our downloads before the 0.91 release because of the very unsafe nature that sourceforge has become.
We do know these things:
- Launchpad can only host our windows and source packages, Max OSX is
too large.
- Our website would not cope with our download traffic.
- We have no mirrors, official or otherwise.
If you have any ideas how we can solve this problem, please discuss here.
From the discussion I think we can conclude:
- We really don't know what demand to expect but need to prepare for an
onslaught in the first month.
- We should have multiple download options as we don't know which will
work well and which won't. We should ask that people link to the our download page rather than to a particular download site. This will allow us to add/remove sites as needed.
I've collected all the ideas from the email thread and have put them on a wiki page:
http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Download_Strategies
Tav
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So what could we have ? 1x Intel® Xeon® E3 1220 v2 16 Go DDR3 ECC 2x 1 To SATA bandwidth up to 1 Gbit/s minimum bandwidth guaranted 150 Mbit/s illimited traffic
This should handle a good fraction of the initial onslaught (~400 Mbit/s?). And it should be sufficient after the first month.
other point, we are really ready to pay for this if need and would we proud of it. But during LGM we were wondering how to use inkscape donations. Couldn't it be used for that (personnal i'd prefer use inkscape money to pay developers, of course).
I think this is something that would be a valid use of Inkscape donations. What would be the cost?
for this solution: it's about 500 euros / year. there another one wth quaranted 400Mbit/s at about 1000 euros/year I guess the most of the cost will be the administration service. I'm in discussion with jazzynico who already administrate our flossmanualsfr.net server.
Another possibility is that my Internet provider (free.fr) offers a free download service for large files. I have never tried it. They advertise:
Maximum file size: 10 GBytes Unlimited number of files Unlimited downloads Files retained for 30 days after last download.
which one ? dl.free.fr ? The problem might be bandwidth. There's no informations about it.
From the discussion I think we can conclude:
- We really don't know what demand to expect but need to prepare for an
onslaught in the first month.
i may have found one :)
- We should have multiple download options as we don't know which will
work well and which won't. We should ask that people link to the our download page rather than to a particular download site. This will allow us to add/remove sites as needed.
hum, this makes things invisible for the user, but what benefits would then have the host ? This is a question that might be asked (we do because in the association we'll have to explain our expenditures)
pygmee
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On Sun, 2014-11-30 at 11:09 +0100, pygmee wrote:
hum, this makes things invisible for the user, but what benefits would then have the host ? This is a question that might be asked (we do because in the association we'll have to explain our expenditures)
The link from inkscape.org would and should show a thank you page for the hoster. The problem is sites linking directly to the download site and stopping us from punting links to the right mirrors for the right countries etc.
If we use a referrer filter, we can send direct links back to inkscape.org and allow links from inkscape.org though. Does this make sense?
On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 10:06:13AM +0100, Tavmjong Bah wrote:
On Fri, 2014-11-28 at 07:42 -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
Devs,
Launchpad have allowed my request for a downlaods size exception to expire. (which I'm not happy about) But this does leave us with an important todo item, we must find a new home for our downloads before the 0.91 release because of the very unsafe nature that sourceforge has become.
We do know these things:
- Launchpad can only host our windows and source packages, Max OSX is
too large.
- Our website would not cope with our download traffic.
- We have no mirrors, official or otherwise.
If you have any ideas how we can solve this problem, please discuss here.
From the discussion I think we can conclude:
- We really don't know what demand to expect but need to prepare for an
onslaught in the first month.
- We should have multiple download options as we don't know which will
work well and which won't. We should ask that people link to the our download page rather than to a particular download site. This will allow us to add/remove sites as needed.
This is a good idea to provide a centralized registry of mirrors. Is there a potential the main website could get overwhelmed? I seem to recall OSUOSL is robust with heavy traffic but still might be worth considering contingency plans?
At a minimum maybe the download mirrors list could be put into a (checksummed?) README that could be shared around?
Btw, we should also give OSUOSL a head's up about the release announcement schedule, so the traffic doesn't come as a surprise. (They might also have some suggestions for mirrors.) Martin, would you mind dropping them a line about this?
Bryce
I've collected all the ideas from the email thread and have put them on a wiki page:
http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Download_Strategies
Tav
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751&iu=/4140/ostg.cl... _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 11:00:13AM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
On Sun, 2014-11-30 at 11:09 +0100, pygmee wrote:
hum, this makes things invisible for the user, but what benefits would then have the host ? This is a question that might be asked (we do because in the association we'll have to explain our expenditures)
The link from inkscape.org would and should show a thank you page for the hoster. The problem is sites linking directly to the download site and stopping us from punting links to the right mirrors for the right countries etc.
If we use a referrer filter, we can send direct links back to inkscape.org and allow links from inkscape.org though. Does this make sense?
While we don't want to provide general downloads from the Inkscape webserver, we do need to provide a mirroring source that can be copied via wget, rsync, or similar. Maybe with a BasicAuth password or something to limit who can pull from it...
I've put the pre3 files on SourceForge since that's been our process, but if we get the mirror system up and running I'll shift over to uploading to them only.
Bryce
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 07:42:15AM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
Devs,
Launchpad have allowed my request for a downlaods size exception to expire. (which I'm not happy about) But this does leave us with an important todo item, we must find a new home for our downloads before the 0.91 release because of the very unsafe nature that sourceforge has become.
We do know these things:
- Launchpad can only host our windows and source packages, Max OSX is
too large.
- Our website would not cope with our download traffic.
- We have no mirrors, official or otherwise.
If you have any ideas how we can solve this problem, please discuss here.
Kees mentioned Google's code hosting:
https://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/GettingStarted#Sharing_Releases
We could establish a repo for our project, using it only for the download service, not git hosting or anything else. Then add that to the mirrors list... Google probably wouldn't even notice our traffic spike. ;-)
github also has an analogous service, based around git tags. You can create a release associated with a git tag (which we could synthesize), and then attach binaries through their web interface. For instance see:
https://github.com/Samsung/caskbench/releases/tag/v0.4.5
Bryce
On 2 Dec 2014 04:39, "Bryce Harrington" <bryce@...961...> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 07:42:15AM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
Devs,
Launchpad have allowed my request for a downlaods size exception to expire. (which I'm not happy about) But this does leave us with an important todo item, we must find a new home for our downloads before the 0.91 release because of the very unsafe nature that sourceforge has become.
We do know these things:
- Launchpad can only host our windows and source packages, Max OSX is
too large.
- Our website would not cope with our download traffic.
- We have no mirrors, official or otherwise.
If you have any ideas how we can solve this problem, please discuss here.
Kees mentioned Google's code hosting:
https://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/GettingStarted#Sharing_Releases
We could establish a repo for our project, using it only for the download service, not git hosting or anything else. Then add that to the mirrors list... Google probably wouldn't even notice our traffic spike. ;-)
They stopped doing direct downloads a while back. The downloads bit of the FAQ recommends you use google drive now, but I couldn't find any reference to bandwidth limits. (We could email them and ask)
https://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/DownloadsFAQ
github also has an analogous service, based around git tags. You can create a release associated with a git tag (which we could synthesize), and then attach binaries through their web interface. For instance see:
https://github.com/Samsung/caskbench/releases/tag/v0.4.5
Bryce
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A lot of great energy has been put into this thread, so I wanted to come back in... Fastly got back to me this afternoon.
They're a CDN and do distribution for twitter, pinterest, github, yelp, kickstarter, debian, etc. They're game to back our website (everything content-wise, downloads come with that).
I've put a few Qs their way and if things look as good as they seem, I don't think we need to put much more energy into this topic for 0.91.
Cheers, Josh On Dec 1, 2014 9:22 PM, "John Cliff" <john.cliff@...400...> wrote:
On 2 Dec 2014 04:39, "Bryce Harrington" <bryce@...961...> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 07:42:15AM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
Devs,
Launchpad have allowed my request for a downlaods size exception to expire. (which I'm not happy about) But this does leave us with an important todo item, we must find a new home for our downloads before the 0.91 release because of the very unsafe nature that sourceforge has become.
We do know these things:
- Launchpad can only host our windows and source packages, Max OSX is
too large.
- Our website would not cope with our download traffic.
- We have no mirrors, official or otherwise.
If you have any ideas how we can solve this problem, please discuss here.
Kees mentioned Google's code hosting:
https://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/GettingStarted#Sharing_Releases
We could establish a repo for our project, using it only for the download service, not git hosting or anything else. Then add that to the mirrors list... Google probably wouldn't even notice our traffic spike. ;-)
They stopped doing direct downloads a while back. The downloads bit of the FAQ recommends you use google drive now, but I couldn't find any reference to bandwidth limits. (We could email them and ask)
https://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/DownloadsFAQ
github also has an analogous service, based around git tags. You can create a release associated with a git tag (which we could synthesize), and then attach binaries through their web interface. For instance see:
https://github.com/Samsung/caskbench/releases/tag/v0.4.5
Bryce
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
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This sounds like excellent news. What does it mean in practice, technically?
Bryce
On Mon, Dec 01, 2014 at 09:51:25PM -0800, Josh Andler wrote:
A lot of great energy has been put into this thread, so I wanted to come back in... Fastly got back to me this afternoon.
They're a CDN and do distribution for twitter, pinterest, github, yelp, kickstarter, debian, etc. They're game to back our website (everything content-wise, downloads come with that).
I've put a few Qs their way and if things look as good as they seem, I don't think we need to put much more energy into this topic for 0.91.
Cheers, Josh On Dec 1, 2014 9:22 PM, "John Cliff" <john.cliff@...400...> wrote:
On 2 Dec 2014 04:39, "Bryce Harrington" <bryce@...961...> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 07:42:15AM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
Devs,
Launchpad have allowed my request for a downlaods size exception to expire. (which I'm not happy about) But this does leave us with an important todo item, we must find a new home for our downloads before the 0.91 release because of the very unsafe nature that sourceforge has become.
We do know these things:
- Launchpad can only host our windows and source packages, Max OSX is
too large.
- Our website would not cope with our download traffic.
- We have no mirrors, official or otherwise.
If you have any ideas how we can solve this problem, please discuss here.
Kees mentioned Google's code hosting:
https://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/GettingStarted#Sharing_Releases
We could establish a repo for our project, using it only for the download service, not git hosting or anything else. Then add that to the mirrors list... Google probably wouldn't even notice our traffic spike. ;-)
They stopped doing direct downloads a while back. The downloads bit of the FAQ recommends you use google drive now, but I couldn't find any reference to bandwidth limits. (We could email them and ask)
https://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/DownloadsFAQ
github also has an analogous service, based around git tags. You can create a release associated with a git tag (which we could synthesize), and then attach binaries through their web interface. For instance see:
https://github.com/Samsung/caskbench/releases/tag/v0.4.5
Bryce
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751&iu=/4140/ostg.cl...
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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On Mon, 2014-12-01 at 23:42 -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
This sounds like excellent news. What does it mean in practice, technically?
We get an account and configure it so that requests pass through their machines on to ours to request files and then cache them. We tell nginx to set a cache timer in the http header so they know how long to keep the files for before refreshing and we set the settings STATIC url to their cdn instead of the local machine.
We require that it be https
And static and media need to be covered. Static files will expire before updates appear, but media files are usually differently named each time.
We might not need the mirror work if fastly are serious in giving us a proper CDN.
Martin,
In layman's terms: Faster loading of the website and likely a lot less strain on our webserver. They will cache our entire website and deliver to users based on the geographic location of the request.
Cheers, Josh
On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 11:42 PM, Bryce Harrington <bryce@...961...> wrote:
This sounds like excellent news. What does it mean in practice, technically?
Bryce
On Mon, Dec 01, 2014 at 09:51:25PM -0800, Josh Andler wrote:
A lot of great energy has been put into this thread, so I wanted to come back in... Fastly got back to me this afternoon.
They're a CDN and do distribution for twitter, pinterest, github, yelp, kickstarter, debian, etc. They're game to back our website (everything content-wise, downloads come with that).
I've put a few Qs their way and if things look as good as they seem, I don't think we need to put much more energy into this topic for 0.91.
Cheers, Josh On Dec 1, 2014 9:22 PM, "John Cliff" <john.cliff@...400...> wrote:
On 2 Dec 2014 04:39, "Bryce Harrington" <bryce@...961...> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 07:42:15AM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
Devs,
Launchpad have allowed my request for a downlaods size exception to expire. (which I'm not happy about) But this does leave us with an important todo item, we must find a new home for our downloads before the 0.91 release because of the very unsafe nature that sourceforge has become.
We do know these things:
- Launchpad can only host our windows and source packages, Max OSX is
too large.
- Our website would not cope with our download traffic.
- We have no mirrors, official or otherwise.
If you have any ideas how we can solve this problem, please discuss here.
Kees mentioned Google's code hosting:
https://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/GettingStarted#Sharing_Releases
We could establish a repo for our project, using it only for the download service, not git hosting or anything else. Then add that to the mirrors list... Google probably wouldn't even notice our traffic spike. ;-)
They stopped doing direct downloads a while back. The downloads bit of the FAQ recommends you use google drive now, but I couldn't find any reference to bandwidth limits. (We could email them and ask)
https://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/DownloadsFAQ
github also has an analogous service, based around git tags. You can create a release associated with a git tag (which we could synthesize), and then attach binaries through their web interface. For instance see:
https://github.com/Samsung/caskbench/releases/tag/v0.4.5
Bryce
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
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On Tue, Dec 02, 2014 at 11:20:40AM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
On Mon, 2014-12-01 at 23:42 -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
This sounds like excellent news. What does it mean in practice, technically?
We get an account and configure it so that requests pass through their machines on to ours to request files and then cache them. We tell nginx to set a cache timer in the http header so they know how long to keep the files for before refreshing and we set the settings STATIC url to their cdn instead of the local machine.
We require that it be https
And static and media need to be covered. Static files will expire before updates appear, but media files are usually differently named each time.
We might not need the mirror work if fastly are serious in giving us a proper CDN.
Martin,
Thanks for the run down Martin. Shame to see the mirror functionality you did not get put into practice though!
Bryce
participants (11)
-
Alexander Brock -
Bryce Harrington -
Brynn -
Christoffer Holmstedt -
Eddy StEsprit -
John Cliff -
Josh Andler -
Marc Jeanmougin -
Martin Owens -
pygmee -
Tavmjong Bah