6:13 a.m.
Do you remember some week ago when an editor requested screenshots for a
Romanian computer magazine? I just saw it in the stands and purchased one:
http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/2005/09/inkscape-in-press-mylinux.html
--
nicu
11:39 a.m.
On 9/22/05, Nicu Buculei <nicu@...398...> wrote:
Do you remember some week ago when an editor requested screenshots
...
Inkscape is also on the cover of 'Linuxformat' for November (LX72).
Their website
is at http://linuxformat.co.uk/, but it is not much to look at.
Incidentally, Googling for Inkscape brings up several "Edit this page" pages
from the wiki - is there a 'robots.txt' and/or a referrer trick that
could prevent
editing through Google ...
On the cover:
MAJOR NEW RELEASE OF THIS SUPERB VECTOR GRAPHICS DRAWING TOOL
The article on Page 34:
DO INKSCAPE DEVELOPERS EVER SLEEP?
The latest incarnation of Inkscape the open source vector illustration
package, has just hit the web in the usual array of versions, and once
again boasts a vast number of improvements and new features ...
Ben
6 p.m.
We're in the news section of linux magazine too:
http://www.linux-magazine.com/issue/59
We also had 3/4 of a page in linux journals news section,
(pretty sure it was lj, looked through all the linux ones in borders)
looked like an expanded on version of our press release. They also
mentioned the ocal release. (the other 1/4 page was an ad btw)
Linux format had both inkscape 0.42 (dont know if it was 0.42.2) and
the OCAL release on the DVD, didnt fancy spending £6.50 on a magazine
about an OS i dont use so cant tell you what packages they put on
there.
anyway, the press releases seem to be working, and the articles seem to
be positive, full of praise for the gradient editing and text
improvements.
cheers
Sim
--- Ben Fowler <ben.the.mole@...400...> wrote:
On 9/22/05, Nicu Buculei <nicu@...398...> wrote:
> Do you remember some week ago when an editor requested screenshots
...
Inkscape is also on the cover of 'Linuxformat' for November (LX72).
Their website
is at http://linuxformat.co.uk/, but it is not much to look at.
Incidentally, Googling for Inkscape brings up several "Edit this
page" pages
from the wiki - is there a 'robots.txt' and/or a referrer trick that
could prevent
editing through Google ...
On the cover:
MAJOR NEW RELEASE OF THIS SUPERB VECTOR GRAPHICS DRAWING TOOL
The article on Page 34:
DO INKSCAPE DEVELOPERS EVER SLEEP?
The latest incarnation of Inkscape the open source vector
illustration
package, has just hit the web in the usual array of versions, and
once
again boasts a vast number of improvements and new features ...
Ben
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12:19 a.m.
We're up on Newsforge right now too. Looks like a really nice article,
too. (Who scared off the critics?)
http://software.newsforge.com/software/05/09/08/1835253.shtml?tid=131&...
Bryce
On Thu, Sep 22, 2005 at 11:00:09AM -0700, John Cliff wrote:
We're in the news section of linux magazine too:
http://www.linux-magazine.com/issue/59
We also had 3/4 of a page in linux journals news section,
(pretty sure it was lj, looked through all the linux ones in borders)
looked like an expanded on version of our press release. They also
mentioned the ocal release. (the other 1/4 page was an ad btw)
Linux format had both inkscape 0.42 (dont know if it was 0.42.2) and
the OCAL release on the DVD, didnt fancy spending ?6.50 on a magazine
about an OS i dont use so cant tell you what packages they put on
there.
anyway, the press releases seem to be working, and the articles seem to
be positive, full of praise for the gradient editing and text
improvements.
cheers
Sim
--- Ben Fowler <ben.the.mole@...400...> wrote:
> On 9/22/05, Nicu Buculei <nicu@...398...> wrote:
> > Do you remember some week ago when an editor requested screenshots
> ...
>
> Inkscape is also on the cover of 'Linuxformat' for November (LX72).
> Their website
> is at http://linuxformat.co.uk/, but it is not much to look at.
>
> Incidentally, Googling for Inkscape brings up several "Edit this
> page" pages
> from the wiki - is there a 'robots.txt' and/or a referrer trick that
> could prevent
> editing through Google ...
>
> On the cover:
>
> MAJOR NEW RELEASE OF THIS SUPERB VECTOR GRAPHICS DRAWING TOOL
>
> The article on Page 34:
>
> DO INKSCAPE DEVELOPERS EVER SLEEP?
>
> The latest incarnation of Inkscape the open source vector
> illustration
> package, has just hit the web in the usual array of versions, and
> once
> again boasts a vast number of improvements and new features ...
>
> Ben
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server.
> Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your
> very
> own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play:
> http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-devel mailing list
> Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>
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5:34 a.m.
New subject: help->keys & mouse
# from Bryce Harrington
# on Thursday 22 September 2005 05:19 pm:
Looks like a really nice article, too. (Who scared off the critics?)
Nice.
Reading this gives me an idea, though it is rather half-baked right now.
Maybe someone on the list would be able to say how tricky the
implementation might be:
"One obvious interface choice in Inkscape is a reliance on keyboard and
mouse button combinations rather than a straight point and click
interface. This choice is a mixed blessing. ... color-coded list of
hundreds of shortcuts..."
What if you took this criticism and turned it into a killer feature?
i.e. how difficult would it be to make this list of shortcuts into a
set of menus in a pop-up window where each function is clickable?
Then, the Help->Keys&Mouse menu entry could have F1 bound to it and the
user could lean on the point-n-click interface while learning the
shortcuts via osmosis.
He's right about the lack of floating toolboxes being a good way to
streamline the interface, but adding the pop-up discoverability would
(IMHO) give the best of both worlds.
I like the layout and color coding of the svg (can you do that with
drop-down menus?) but it is already a tight fit on smaller screens, and
the key to making it work would be to have everything within two clicks
F1.
Anybody have any observations/pointers on how to make this happen? I
can file a feature request, but the idea is a little underbaked thus
far.
--Eric
--
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler."
--Albert Einstein
---------------------------------------------------
http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------
5:58 a.m.
New subject: help->keys & mouse
On 9/23/05, Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing@...400...> wrote:
What if you took this criticism and turned it into a killer feature?
i.e. how difficult would it be to make this list of shortcuts into a
set of menus in a pop-up window where each function is clickable?
Then, the Help->Keys&Mouse menu entry could have F1 bound to it and the
user could lean on the point-n-click interface while learning the
shortcuts via osmosis.
Many if not most of these shortcuts are not keyboard shortcuts but
mouse or mouse+keyboard, and most of these heavily depend on the
context: where is your mouse and what is the current state of an
object. Obviously, you cannot make them into menu command, because you
can't specify where you drag or click via a menu command, and even if
you could, going to that menu to call that command would often destroy
the context for this shortcut (e.g. release object being dragged).
As for the purely keyboard shortcuts, most of them already have their
own menu command and/or toolbar buttons, and those that do not will
get them eventually.
He's right about the lack of floating toolboxes being a good way
to
streamline the interface, but adding the pop-up discoverability would
(IMHO) give the best of both worlds.
The approach I've been pushing for discoverability is using statusbar
tips, cursor shapes, and other consistent visual means to communicate
what this thing is and what you can do to it. Of course a right-click
menu with relevant commands would be good too. But it's a sadly
neglected aspect of the UI currently.
I like the layout and color coding of the svg (can you do that with
drop-down menus?) but it is already a tight fit on smaller screens, and
the key to making it work would be to have everything within two clicks
F1.
Oh, and we already have F1 assigned, and I really don't like the idea
of changing it (though there were several attempts to persuade me but
I'm stubborn on this :)
--
bulia byak
Inkscape. Draw Freely.
http://www.inkscape.org
4:42 p.m.
New subject: help->keys & mouse
(oops only replied to Bulia initially)
bulia byak wrote:
On 9/23/05, Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing@...400...> wrote:
>I like the layout and color coding of the svg (can you do that with
>drop-down menus?) but it is already a tight fit on smaller screens, and
>the key to making it work would be to have everything within two clicks
>F1.
>
>
Oh, and we already have F1 assigned, and I really don't like the idea
of changing it (though there were several attempts to persuade me but
I'm stubborn on this :)
I know that we (you and I, Bulia) have had discussions before and you've
talked about not wanting to waste modifiers and such, which makes
complete sense. So my question is, what about regular shortcut keys? Do
we really need multiple shortcut keys "wasted" to have another way to
change tools? And do we really need /three/ shortcuts to switch to the
Selector tool? And I ask that because there are then 4 different way to
select that tool if you include clicking on it.
On one level I really like the idea of the Fkeys being used like that
because it's effectively making your Fkeys a toolbar. That being said, I
have never once used any of them. With my typical workflow, the letter
shortcuts of B, N, & Spacebar (one finger switches all my tools without
even moving my hand... woohoo!) are heaven.
I would also question our deviation from the very standard F1 = Help.
And with what we supply currently, keys & mouth is the most logical
thing to link that to atm. And then down the line it would make sense to
me if we were to somehow include the inkscape book to serve as our
help/main documentation.
Just my .02
-Josh
5:56 p.m.
New subject: help->keys & mouse
On 9/23/05, Joshua A. Andler <joshua@...533...> wrote:
I know that we (you and I, Bulia) have had discussions before and
you've
talked about not wanting to waste modifiers and such, which makes
complete sense. So my question is, what about regular shortcut keys? Do
we really need multiple shortcut keys "wasted" to have another way to
change tools?
Yes because:
- Tool changing is one of the most important operations.
- There exist two standards, Illustrator (letter keys) and
CorelDraw/Xara (F keys), each with a huge number of users. By
implementing them both, we please everyone.
And do we really need /three/ shortcuts to switch to the
Selector tool?
- As the most important tool, it certainly deserves it.
- I personally use 2 of the 3 all of the time. Others may be using the
other 2 :)
On one level I really like the idea of the Fkeys being used like
that
because it's effectively making your Fkeys a toolbar. That being said, I
have never once used any of them. With my typical workflow, the letter
shortcuts of B, N, & Spacebar (one finger switches all my tools without
even moving my hand... woohoo!) are heaven.
Sure, that's because you come from Illustrator :) I come from Xara
and I always use the F keys, never letter keys.
I would also question our deviation from the very standard F1 = Help.
That one is harder to defend, admittedly. But it's SO convenient, SO
logical (first tool, first F key), have been used for SO long
(actually it's that way in Sodipodi), and changing it will disrupt SO
many other shortcuts (all F keys would need to be remapped somehow)
that I just don't think it's worth it. When we have editable keyboard
profiles, sure, we'll have those with F1==Help, maybe even the default
one. But for now please let's just leave it as it is.
--
bulia byak
Inkscape. Draw Freely.
http://www.inkscape.org
6:47 p.m.
New subject: help->keys & mouse
# from bulia byak
# on Friday 23 September 2005 10:56 am:
When we have editable keyboard
profiles, sure, we'll have those with F1==Help, maybe even the default
one. But for now please let's just leave it as it is.
Ok, (/me ducks) sorry I said F1! If Ctrl+F1, (or any other hotkey for
that matter) is available, it would still be a Good Thing(tm) to have
all of the hotkey actions available in a popup, clickable menu.
Yes, some of these are context sensitive mouse actions, so of course
those should be left off, but there are still many actions which are
keyboard only (most everything under Tools, File, Window, Dialogs,
Layers, Objects, ...)
I realize that it isn't going to be a simple one-to-one mapping to turn
the cheatsheet into a menu (it will take some streamlining, and you
might still want to print a cheatsheet for the mouse actions, etc.),
but a clickable cheatsheet would still be really cool.
--Eric
--
"You can't win. You can't break even. You can't quit."
--Ginsberg's Restatement of the Three Laws of Thermodynamics
---------------------------------------------------
http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------
9:36 p.m.
New subject: help->keys & mouse
On Thu, 22 Sep 2005, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:34:43 -0700
From: Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing@...400...>
To: inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] help->keys & mouse
# from Bryce Harrington
# on Thursday 22 September 2005 05:19 pm:
>Looks like a really nice article, too. (Who scared off the critics?)
Nice.
Reading this gives me an idea, though it is rather half-baked right now.
Maybe someone on the list would be able to say how tricky the
implementation might be:
"One obvious interface choice in Inkscape is a reliance on keyboard and
mouse button combinations rather than a straight point and click
interface.
Nice way of saying Inkscape will suck for Pen users and probably not be
much fun for users with strict accessibility requirements.
- Alan
11:06 p.m.
New subject: help->keys & mouse
On 9/24/05, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> wrote:
Nice way of saying Inkscape will suck for Pen users
Wrong again. I use a tablet myself all the time. There are lots of
ways to do the same thing.
--
bulia byak
Inkscape. Draw Freely.
http://www.inkscape.org
2:34 a.m.
New subject: help->keys & mouse
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005, bulia byak wrote:
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:06:14 -0300
From: bulia byak <buliabyak@...400...>
To: Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...>
Cc: Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing@...400...>,
Inkscape is a vector graphics editor
<inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] help->keys & mouse
On 9/24/05, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> wrote:
> Nice way of saying Inkscape will suck for Pen users
Wrong again. I use a tablet myself all the time.
Unplug the keyboard and get back to me.
I'd be amazed if you weren't using both the keyboard and the pen too.
There are lots of ways to do the same thing.
and as the Python developers say there is the right way. :P
Dont tell it to me, the author of the article described it as a mixed
blessing. The article had a fair few other points worth noting too.
Sincerely
Alan Horkan
Inkscape http://inkscape.org
Abiword http://www.abisource.com
Dia http://gnome.org/projects/dia/
Open Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org
Alan's Diary http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/
9:26 a.m.
We're up on Newsforge right now too. Looks like a really nice
article,
too. (Who scared off the critics?)
http://software.newsforge.com/software/05/09/08/1835253.shtml?tid=131&...
He *has* criticisms:
"If the icon designs are sometimes too small to be easily seen..."
IMHO, they could fill the space between them much better.
I don't know what's necessary for enlarging them.
ralf
4:16 p.m.
On Fri, Sep 23, 2005 at 11:26:58AM +0200, Ralf Stephan wrote:
> We're up on Newsforge right now too. Looks like a really
nice article,
> too. (Who scared off the critics?)
>
>
http://software.newsforge.com/software/05/09/08/1835253.shtml?tid=131&...
He *has* criticisms:
"If the icon designs are sometimes too small to be easily seen..."
IMHO, they could fill the space between them much better.
I don't know what's necessary for enlarging them.
Altering the icons is really easy now days. They're all in an SVG file
in your /usr/share/inkscape directory. We even support icon themes.
I know at least a few icons still in there are "programmer art", so a
motivated artist could find several areas to improve. ;-)
Bryce
5:22 p.m.
On Sep 23, 2005, at 2:26 AM, Ralf Stephan wrote:
> We're up on Newsforge right now too. Looks like a really
nice
> article,
> too. (Who scared off the critics?)
>
> http://software.newsforge.com/software/05/09/08/1835253.shtml?
> tid=131&tid=130&tid=132
>
He *has* criticisms:
"If the icon designs are sometimes too small to be easily seen..."
IMHO, they could fill the space between them much better.
I don't know what's necessary for enlarging them.
Nothing.
:-)
They're the size they are supposed to be.
They are either stock icons in the proper sizes, or svg icons
rendered to the proper size. What the "proper size" is depends on
your current GTK+ theme settings.
So, if the user had set a theme that wanted larger icons, they should
automatically get them.
Another cleanup will be changing to stock toolbars and items. That
might manage the space a little better, and will change the toolbar
buttons to respect the user settings for showing text or not. Also,
if there are too many items, the missing ones will be available in a
popup-menu at the end of the toolbar.
Fixing that needs to wait for the switch to GTK Actions, so might be
just a little to get (I had all the conversion work mostly done
except for the actual triggering of operations, but that last piece
turned out to be missing so I backed it out for now)
6:04 p.m.
On 9/23/05, Ralf Stephan <ralf@...748...> wrote:
I don't know what's necessary for enlarging them.
They were larger before, but then Jon Cruz switched us to the
"standard" sizes :(
--
bulia byak
Inkscape. Draw Freely.
http://www.inkscape.org
3:18 a.m.
On Sep 23, 2005, at 11:04 AM, bulia byak wrote:
On 9/23/05, Ralf Stephan <ralf@...748...> wrote:
> I don't know what's necessary for enlarging them.
>
They were larger before, but then Jon Cruz switched us to the
"standard" sizes :(
Ahhh...
But then if you want them bigger, just use the standard mechanisms to
set the standard size to be bigger.
:-)
8:13 a.m.
On 9/22/05, John Cliff <simarilius@...36...> wrote:
We're in the news section of linux magazine too:
http://www.linux-magazine.com/issue/59
Yes, I meant to mention that one.
...
Linux format had both inkscape 0.42 (dont know if it was 0.42.2) and
the OCAL release on the DVD, didnt fancy spending £6.50 on a magazine
about an OS i dont use so cant tell you what packages they put on
there.
Which OS is it that you don't use? Gentoo?
It might be an idea to check whether Linux Format are planning to
put version 0.43 (think autopackage
http://wiki.inkscape.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CompilingAutopackage )
anyway, the press releases seem to be working, and the articles seem
to
be positive, full of praise for the gradient editing and text
improvements.
An interesting problem in any development is getting people to critique
it.
Your friends may be prepared to look at and use the development,
but will not often give criticisms. Magazines often ignore and will
not publish reviews of below average software.
We have to go out there and look for negative comments, as they are
not available just for the taking.
Ben
2:59 p.m.
--- Ben Fowler <ben.the.mole@...400...> wrote:
On 9/22/05, John Cliff <simarilius@...36...> wrote:
> We're in the news section of linux magazine too:
> http://www.linux-magazine.com/issue/59
Yes, I meant to mention that one.
> ...
> Linux format had both inkscape 0.42 (dont know if it was 0.42.2)
and
> the OCAL release on the DVD, didnt fancy spending £6.50 on a
magazine
> about an OS i dont use so cant tell you what packages they put on
> there.
Which OS is it that you don't use? Gentoo?
That'd be Linux :)
I'm one of the only devs who's 100% windows still.
(love my games too much to leave it.)
Sim
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3:48 p.m.
On 9/23/05, John Cliff <simarilius@...36...> wrote:
--- Ben Fowler <ben.the.mole@...400...> wrote:
> On 9/22/05, John Cliff <simarilius@...36...> wrote:
> > Linux format had both inkscape 0.42 (dont know if it was 0.42.2)
> > and the OCAL release on the DVD, didnt fancy spending £6.50 on a
> > magazine about an OS i dont use so cant tell you what packages
> > they put on there.
It is 0.42, videlicet:
bfowler@...996...:~> ls /media/dvd/Office/Inkscape/
dependencies inkscape_0.42-1_i386.deb
inkscape-0.42.x86.package README screenshot_thumb.png
inkscape-0.42-0.static.i386.rpm inkscape-0.42.tar.gz INSTALL
screenshot.png
It is not my pigeon, but given the large capacity of DVDs in comparison
to the modest size of the Inkscape release, Linux Format might be
most receptive to including release 0.43 as and when.
> Which OS is it that you don't use? Gentoo?
That'd be Linux :)
I'm one of the only devs who's 100% windows still.
(love my games too much to leave it.)
Obviously 100% Windows devs are very much needed. I am probably off charter
for this list, though I would point out that to take one example, Linux Format
(LX68) Dated July 2005 had Ubuntu and 4 Mini Distros, and if you wanted, you
could run linux from CD Rom or USB and take a look.
Ben
9:49 p.m.
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005, Ben Fowler wrote:
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:13:34 +0100
From: Ben Fowler <ben.the.mole@...400...>
To: Inkscape Devel List <Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] In the press
On 9/22/05, John Cliff <simarilius@...36...> wrote:
> We're in the news section of linux magazine too:
> http://www.linux-magazine.com/issue/59
Yes, I meant to mention that one.
> ...
> Linux format had both inkscape 0.42 (dont know if it was 0.42.2) and
> the OCAL release on the DVD, didnt fancy spending £6.50 on a magazine
> about an OS i dont use so cant tell you what packages they put on
> there.
Which OS is it that you don't use? Gentoo?
It might be an idea to check whether Linux Format are planning to
put version 0.43 (think autopackage
http://wiki.inkscape.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CompilingAutopackage )
I always thought it would be nice if we could convince magazines to carry
windows versions of cross platform Open Source Software, or at least carry
something like Inkview. It could help spread SVG and help give Open
Source users a way to share documents even with those who are not using
Linux. I guess I should edit the press page with something to that
effect.
> anyway, the press releases seem to be working, and the articles
seem to
> be positive, full of praise for the gradient editing and text
> improvements.
An interesting problem in any development is getting people to critique
it.
I think reviews help developers prioritise but any eejit (i.e. me) can
open their eyes and look at what the competition are doing. (Call me a
consultant, give it a fancy title like Competative Analysis and it would
probably cost you a lot of money for me to point out the obvious.)
Your friends may be prepared to look at and use the development,
but will not often give criticisms. Magazines often ignore and will
not publish reviews of below average software.
We have to go out there and look for negative comments, as they are
not available just for the taking.
Sure they are, I've no shortage of cricisms of Inkscape and the bug
tracker is full of them. If the developers take an honest look at
Inkscape they know there are things which could be improved. However it
it would be (more) annoying for developers if I constantly criticized, I
try to get the jabs in first before the slashdot trolls do and at least
that way the developers can say "we know and we're working on it."
Also it is also a long way from providing criticism to detailed analysis
developers can actualy work with (which we cannot reasonably expect
reviewers to provide and which I am always expect to provide anytime I
criticise even though the developers are perfectly able to do it
themselves.)
Sincerely
Alan Horkan
Inkscape http://inkscape.org
Abiword http://www.abisource.com
Dia http://gnome.org/projects/dia/
Open Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org
Alan's Diary http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/
8:24 a.m.
On 9/24/05, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> wrote:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005, Ben Fowler wrote:
> An interesting problem in any development is getting people to critique
> it.
[ snip ]
> Your friends may be prepared to look at and use the development,
> but will not often give criticisms. Magazines often ignore and will
> not publish reviews of below average software.
> We have to go out there and look for negative comments, as they are
> not available just for the taking.
Sure they are, I've no shortage of critisms of Inkscape and the bug
tracker is full of them. ...
I am not sure that I completely agree with that, and unless you are sure that
you are not missing my point, you might want to check
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CriticsAreYourBestFriends
Ben
9:04 p.m.
On 9/22/05, mental@...3... <mental@...3...> wrote:
Quoting Ben Fowler <ben.the.mole@...400...>:
> DO INKSCAPE DEVELOPERS EVER SLEEP?
What is "sleep"?
It is something human beings here on Earth use to do every night. If
you and other aliens among developers don't want to be caught be
Moulder and Scully, you better teach yourself sleeping or at least
pretend to sleep :)
Alexandre
6638
days inactive
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