Do you remember some week ago when an editor requested screenshots for a Romanian computer magazine? I just saw it in the stands and purchased one:
http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/2005/09/inkscape-in-press-mylinux.html
On 9/22/05, Nicu Buculei <nicu@...398...> wrote:
Do you remember some week ago when an editor requested screenshots ...
Inkscape is also on the cover of 'Linuxformat' for November (LX72). Their website is at http://linuxformat.co.uk/, but it is not much to look at.
Incidentally, Googling for Inkscape brings up several "Edit this page" pages from the wiki - is there a 'robots.txt' and/or a referrer trick that could prevent editing through Google ...
On the cover:
MAJOR NEW RELEASE OF THIS SUPERB VECTOR GRAPHICS DRAWING TOOL
The article on Page 34:
DO INKSCAPE DEVELOPERS EVER SLEEP?
The latest incarnation of Inkscape the open source vector illustration package, has just hit the web in the usual array of versions, and once again boasts a vast number of improvements and new features ...
Ben
We're in the news section of linux magazine too: http://www.linux-magazine.com/issue/59
We also had 3/4 of a page in linux journals news section, (pretty sure it was lj, looked through all the linux ones in borders) looked like an expanded on version of our press release. They also mentioned the ocal release. (the other 1/4 page was an ad btw)
Linux format had both inkscape 0.42 (dont know if it was 0.42.2) and the OCAL release on the DVD, didnt fancy spending £6.50 on a magazine about an OS i dont use so cant tell you what packages they put on there.
anyway, the press releases seem to be working, and the articles seem to be positive, full of praise for the gradient editing and text improvements.
cheers
Sim
--- Ben Fowler <ben.the.mole@...400...> wrote:
On 9/22/05, Nicu Buculei <nicu@...398...> wrote:
Do you remember some week ago when an editor requested screenshots
...
Inkscape is also on the cover of 'Linuxformat' for November (LX72). Their website is at http://linuxformat.co.uk/, but it is not much to look at.
Incidentally, Googling for Inkscape brings up several "Edit this page" pages from the wiki - is there a 'robots.txt' and/or a referrer trick that could prevent editing through Google ...
On the cover:
MAJOR NEW RELEASE OF THIS SUPERB VECTOR GRAPHICS DRAWING TOOL
The article on Page 34:
DO INKSCAPE DEVELOPERS EVER SLEEP?
The latest incarnation of Inkscape the open source vector illustration package, has just hit the web in the usual array of versions, and once again boasts a vast number of improvements and new features ...
Ben
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We're up on Newsforge right now too. Looks like a really nice article, too. (Who scared off the critics?)
http://software.newsforge.com/software/05/09/08/1835253.shtml?tid=131&ti...
Bryce
On Thu, Sep 22, 2005 at 11:00:09AM -0700, John Cliff wrote:
We're in the news section of linux magazine too: http://www.linux-magazine.com/issue/59
We also had 3/4 of a page in linux journals news section, (pretty sure it was lj, looked through all the linux ones in borders) looked like an expanded on version of our press release. They also mentioned the ocal release. (the other 1/4 page was an ad btw)
Linux format had both inkscape 0.42 (dont know if it was 0.42.2) and the OCAL release on the DVD, didnt fancy spending ?6.50 on a magazine about an OS i dont use so cant tell you what packages they put on there.
anyway, the press releases seem to be working, and the articles seem to be positive, full of praise for the gradient editing and text improvements.
cheers
Sim
--- Ben Fowler <ben.the.mole@...400...> wrote:
On 9/22/05, Nicu Buculei <nicu@...398...> wrote:
Do you remember some week ago when an editor requested screenshots
...
Inkscape is also on the cover of 'Linuxformat' for November (LX72). Their website is at http://linuxformat.co.uk/, but it is not much to look at.
Incidentally, Googling for Inkscape brings up several "Edit this page" pages from the wiki - is there a 'robots.txt' and/or a referrer trick that could prevent editing through Google ...
On the cover:
MAJOR NEW RELEASE OF THIS SUPERB VECTOR GRAPHICS DRAWING TOOL
The article on Page 34:
DO INKSCAPE DEVELOPERS EVER SLEEP?
The latest incarnation of Inkscape the open source vector illustration package, has just hit the web in the usual array of versions, and once again boasts a vast number of improvements and new features ...
Ben
SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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# from Bryce Harrington # on Thursday 22 September 2005 05:19 pm:
Looks like a really nice article, too. (Who scared off the critics?)
Nice.
Reading this gives me an idea, though it is rather half-baked right now. Maybe someone on the list would be able to say how tricky the implementation might be:
"One obvious interface choice in Inkscape is a reliance on keyboard and mouse button combinations rather than a straight point and click interface. This choice is a mixed blessing. ... color-coded list of hundreds of shortcuts..."
What if you took this criticism and turned it into a killer feature? i.e. how difficult would it be to make this list of shortcuts into a set of menus in a pop-up window where each function is clickable? Then, the Help->Keys&Mouse menu entry could have F1 bound to it and the user could lean on the point-n-click interface while learning the shortcuts via osmosis.
He's right about the lack of floating toolboxes being a good way to streamline the interface, but adding the pop-up discoverability would (IMHO) give the best of both worlds.
I like the layout and color coding of the svg (can you do that with drop-down menus?) but it is already a tight fit on smaller screens, and the key to making it work would be to have everything within two clicks F1.
Anybody have any observations/pointers on how to make this happen? I can file a feature request, but the idea is a little underbaked thus far.
--Eric
On 9/23/05, Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing@...400...> wrote:
What if you took this criticism and turned it into a killer feature? i.e. how difficult would it be to make this list of shortcuts into a set of menus in a pop-up window where each function is clickable? Then, the Help->Keys&Mouse menu entry could have F1 bound to it and the user could lean on the point-n-click interface while learning the shortcuts via osmosis.
Many if not most of these shortcuts are not keyboard shortcuts but mouse or mouse+keyboard, and most of these heavily depend on the context: where is your mouse and what is the current state of an object. Obviously, you cannot make them into menu command, because you can't specify where you drag or click via a menu command, and even if you could, going to that menu to call that command would often destroy the context for this shortcut (e.g. release object being dragged).
As for the purely keyboard shortcuts, most of them already have their own menu command and/or toolbar buttons, and those that do not will get them eventually.
He's right about the lack of floating toolboxes being a good way to streamline the interface, but adding the pop-up discoverability would (IMHO) give the best of both worlds.
The approach I've been pushing for discoverability is using statusbar tips, cursor shapes, and other consistent visual means to communicate what this thing is and what you can do to it. Of course a right-click menu with relevant commands would be good too. But it's a sadly neglected aspect of the UI currently.
I like the layout and color coding of the svg (can you do that with drop-down menus?) but it is already a tight fit on smaller screens, and the key to making it work would be to have everything within two clicks F1.
Oh, and we already have F1 assigned, and I really don't like the idea of changing it (though there were several attempts to persuade me but I'm stubborn on this :)
-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org
(oops only replied to Bulia initially)
bulia byak wrote:
On 9/23/05, Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing@...400...> wrote:
I like the layout and color coding of the svg (can you do that with drop-down menus?) but it is already a tight fit on smaller screens, and the key to making it work would be to have everything within two clicks F1.
Oh, and we already have F1 assigned, and I really don't like the idea of changing it (though there were several attempts to persuade me but I'm stubborn on this :)
I know that we (you and I, Bulia) have had discussions before and you've talked about not wanting to waste modifiers and such, which makes complete sense. So my question is, what about regular shortcut keys? Do we really need multiple shortcut keys "wasted" to have another way to change tools? And do we really need /three/ shortcuts to switch to the Selector tool? And I ask that because there are then 4 different way to select that tool if you include clicking on it.
On one level I really like the idea of the Fkeys being used like that because it's effectively making your Fkeys a toolbar. That being said, I have never once used any of them. With my typical workflow, the letter shortcuts of B, N, & Spacebar (one finger switches all my tools without even moving my hand... woohoo!) are heaven.
I would also question our deviation from the very standard F1 = Help. And with what we supply currently, keys & mouth is the most logical thing to link that to atm. And then down the line it would make sense to me if we were to somehow include the inkscape book to serve as our help/main documentation.
Just my .02
-Josh
On 9/23/05, Joshua A. Andler <joshua@...533...> wrote:
I know that we (you and I, Bulia) have had discussions before and you've talked about not wanting to waste modifiers and such, which makes complete sense. So my question is, what about regular shortcut keys? Do we really need multiple shortcut keys "wasted" to have another way to change tools?
Yes because:
- Tool changing is one of the most important operations.
- There exist two standards, Illustrator (letter keys) and CorelDraw/Xara (F keys), each with a huge number of users. By implementing them both, we please everyone.
And do we really need /three/ shortcuts to switch to the Selector tool?
- As the most important tool, it certainly deserves it.
- I personally use 2 of the 3 all of the time. Others may be using the other 2 :)
On one level I really like the idea of the Fkeys being used like that because it's effectively making your Fkeys a toolbar. That being said, I have never once used any of them. With my typical workflow, the letter shortcuts of B, N, & Spacebar (one finger switches all my tools without even moving my hand... woohoo!) are heaven.
Sure, that's because you come from Illustrator :) I come from Xara and I always use the F keys, never letter keys.
I would also question our deviation from the very standard F1 = Help.
That one is harder to defend, admittedly. But it's SO convenient, SO logical (first tool, first F key), have been used for SO long (actually it's that way in Sodipodi), and changing it will disrupt SO many other shortcuts (all F keys would need to be remapped somehow) that I just don't think it's worth it. When we have editable keyboard profiles, sure, we'll have those with F1==Help, maybe even the default one. But for now please let's just leave it as it is.
-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org
# from bulia byak # on Friday 23 September 2005 10:56 am:
When we have editable keyboard profiles, sure, we'll have those with F1==Help, maybe even the default one. But for now please let's just leave it as it is.
Ok, (/me ducks) sorry I said F1! If Ctrl+F1, (or any other hotkey for that matter) is available, it would still be a Good Thing(tm) to have all of the hotkey actions available in a popup, clickable menu.
Yes, some of these are context sensitive mouse actions, so of course those should be left off, but there are still many actions which are keyboard only (most everything under Tools, File, Window, Dialogs, Layers, Objects, ...)
I realize that it isn't going to be a simple one-to-one mapping to turn the cheatsheet into a menu (it will take some streamlining, and you might still want to print a cheatsheet for the mouse actions, etc.), but a clickable cheatsheet would still be really cool.
--Eric
On Thu, 22 Sep 2005, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:34:43 -0700 From: Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing@...400...> To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] help->keys & mouse
# from Bryce Harrington # on Thursday 22 September 2005 05:19 pm:
Looks like a really nice article, too. (Who scared off the critics?)
Nice.
Reading this gives me an idea, though it is rather half-baked right now. Maybe someone on the list would be able to say how tricky the implementation might be:
"One obvious interface choice in Inkscape is a reliance on keyboard and mouse button combinations rather than a straight point and click interface.
Nice way of saying Inkscape will suck for Pen users and probably not be much fun for users with strict accessibility requirements.
- Alan
On 9/24/05, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> wrote:
Nice way of saying Inkscape will suck for Pen users
Wrong again. I use a tablet myself all the time. There are lots of ways to do the same thing.
-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005, bulia byak wrote:
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:06:14 -0300 From: bulia byak <buliabyak@...400...> To: Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> Cc: Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing@...400...>, Inkscape is a vector graphics editor inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] help->keys & mouse
On 9/24/05, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> wrote:
Nice way of saying Inkscape will suck for Pen users
Wrong again. I use a tablet myself all the time.
Unplug the keyboard and get back to me. I'd be amazed if you weren't using both the keyboard and the pen too.
There are lots of ways to do the same thing.
and as the Python developers say there is the right way. :P
Dont tell it to me, the author of the article described it as a mixed blessing. The article had a fair few other points worth noting too.
Sincerely
Alan Horkan
Inkscape http://inkscape.org Abiword http://www.abisource.com Dia http://gnome.org/projects/dia/ Open Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org
Alan's Diary http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/
We're up on Newsforge right now too. Looks like a really nice article, too. (Who scared off the critics?)
http://software.newsforge.com/software/05/09/08/1835253.shtml?tid=131&ti...
He *has* criticisms:
"If the icon designs are sometimes too small to be easily seen..."
IMHO, they could fill the space between them much better. I don't know what's necessary for enlarging them.
ralf
On Fri, Sep 23, 2005 at 11:26:58AM +0200, Ralf Stephan wrote:
We're up on Newsforge right now too. Looks like a really nice article, too. (Who scared off the critics?)
http://software.newsforge.com/software/05/09/08/1835253.shtml?tid=131&ti...
He *has* criticisms:
"If the icon designs are sometimes too small to be easily seen..."
IMHO, they could fill the space between them much better. I don't know what's necessary for enlarging them.
Altering the icons is really easy now days. They're all in an SVG file in your /usr/share/inkscape directory. We even support icon themes. I know at least a few icons still in there are "programmer art", so a motivated artist could find several areas to improve. ;-)
Bryce
On Sep 23, 2005, at 2:26 AM, Ralf Stephan wrote:
We're up on Newsforge right now too. Looks like a really nice article, too. (Who scared off the critics?)
http://software.newsforge.com/software/05/09/08/1835253.shtml? tid=131&tid=130&tid=132
He *has* criticisms:
"If the icon designs are sometimes too small to be easily seen..."
IMHO, they could fill the space between them much better. I don't know what's necessary for enlarging them.
Nothing.
:-)
They're the size they are supposed to be.
They are either stock icons in the proper sizes, or svg icons rendered to the proper size. What the "proper size" is depends on your current GTK+ theme settings.
So, if the user had set a theme that wanted larger icons, they should automatically get them.
Another cleanup will be changing to stock toolbars and items. That might manage the space a little better, and will change the toolbar buttons to respect the user settings for showing text or not. Also, if there are too many items, the missing ones will be available in a popup-menu at the end of the toolbar.
Fixing that needs to wait for the switch to GTK Actions, so might be just a little to get (I had all the conversion work mostly done except for the actual triggering of operations, but that last piece turned out to be missing so I backed it out for now)
On 9/23/05, Ralf Stephan <ralf@...748...> wrote:
I don't know what's necessary for enlarging them.
They were larger before, but then Jon Cruz switched us to the "standard" sizes :(
-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org
On Sep 23, 2005, at 11:04 AM, bulia byak wrote:
On 9/23/05, Ralf Stephan <ralf@...748...> wrote:
I don't know what's necessary for enlarging them.
They were larger before, but then Jon Cruz switched us to the "standard" sizes :(
Ahhh...
But then if you want them bigger, just use the standard mechanisms to set the standard size to be bigger.
:-)
On 9/22/05, John Cliff <simarilius@...36...> wrote:
We're in the news section of linux magazine too: http://www.linux-magazine.com/issue/59
Yes, I meant to mention that one.
... Linux format had both inkscape 0.42 (dont know if it was 0.42.2) and the OCAL release on the DVD, didnt fancy spending £6.50 on a magazine about an OS i dont use so cant tell you what packages they put on there.
Which OS is it that you don't use? Gentoo?
It might be an idea to check whether Linux Format are planning to put version 0.43 (think autopackage http://wiki.inkscape.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CompilingAutopackage )
anyway, the press releases seem to be working, and the articles seem to be positive, full of praise for the gradient editing and text improvements.
An interesting problem in any development is getting people to critique it.
Your friends may be prepared to look at and use the development, but will not often give criticisms. Magazines often ignore and will not publish reviews of below average software.
We have to go out there and look for negative comments, as they are not available just for the taking.
Ben
--- Ben Fowler <ben.the.mole@...400...> wrote:
On 9/22/05, John Cliff <simarilius@...36...> wrote:
We're in the news section of linux magazine too: http://www.linux-magazine.com/issue/59
Yes, I meant to mention that one.
... Linux format had both inkscape 0.42 (dont know if it was 0.42.2)
and
the OCAL release on the DVD, didnt fancy spending £6.50 on a
magazine
about an OS i dont use so cant tell you what packages they put on there.
Which OS is it that you don't use? Gentoo?
That'd be Linux :)
I'm one of the only devs who's 100% windows still. (love my games too much to leave it.)
Sim
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On 9/23/05, John Cliff <simarilius@...36...> wrote:
--- Ben Fowler <ben.the.mole@...400...> wrote:
On 9/22/05, John Cliff <simarilius@...36...> wrote:
Linux format had both inkscape 0.42 (dont know if it was 0.42.2) and the OCAL release on the DVD, didnt fancy spending £6.50 on a magazine about an OS i dont use so cant tell you what packages they put on there.
It is 0.42, videlicet:
bfowler@...996...:~> ls /media/dvd/Office/Inkscape/ dependencies inkscape_0.42-1_i386.deb inkscape-0.42.x86.package README screenshot_thumb.png inkscape-0.42-0.static.i386.rpm inkscape-0.42.tar.gz INSTALL screenshot.png
It is not my pigeon, but given the large capacity of DVDs in comparison to the modest size of the Inkscape release, Linux Format might be most receptive to including release 0.43 as and when.
Which OS is it that you don't use? Gentoo?
That'd be Linux :)
I'm one of the only devs who's 100% windows still. (love my games too much to leave it.)
Obviously 100% Windows devs are very much needed. I am probably off charter for this list, though I would point out that to take one example, Linux Format (LX68) Dated July 2005 had Ubuntu and 4 Mini Distros, and if you wanted, you could run linux from CD Rom or USB and take a look.
Ben
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005, Ben Fowler wrote:
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:13:34 +0100 From: Ben Fowler <ben.the.mole@...400...> To: Inkscape Devel List Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] In the press
On 9/22/05, John Cliff <simarilius@...36...> wrote:
We're in the news section of linux magazine too: http://www.linux-magazine.com/issue/59
Yes, I meant to mention that one.
... Linux format had both inkscape 0.42 (dont know if it was 0.42.2) and the OCAL release on the DVD, didnt fancy spending £6.50 on a magazine about an OS i dont use so cant tell you what packages they put on there.
Which OS is it that you don't use? Gentoo?
It might be an idea to check whether Linux Format are planning to put version 0.43 (think autopackage http://wiki.inkscape.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CompilingAutopackage )
I always thought it would be nice if we could convince magazines to carry windows versions of cross platform Open Source Software, or at least carry something like Inkview. It could help spread SVG and help give Open Source users a way to share documents even with those who are not using Linux. I guess I should edit the press page with something to that effect.
anyway, the press releases seem to be working, and the articles seem to be positive, full of praise for the gradient editing and text improvements.
An interesting problem in any development is getting people to critique it.
I think reviews help developers prioritise but any eejit (i.e. me) can open their eyes and look at what the competition are doing. (Call me a consultant, give it a fancy title like Competative Analysis and it would probably cost you a lot of money for me to point out the obvious.)
Your friends may be prepared to look at and use the development, but will not often give criticisms. Magazines often ignore and will not publish reviews of below average software.
We have to go out there and look for negative comments, as they are not available just for the taking.
Sure they are, I've no shortage of cricisms of Inkscape and the bug tracker is full of them. If the developers take an honest look at Inkscape they know there are things which could be improved. However it it would be (more) annoying for developers if I constantly criticized, I try to get the jabs in first before the slashdot trolls do and at least that way the developers can say "we know and we're working on it."
Also it is also a long way from providing criticism to detailed analysis developers can actualy work with (which we cannot reasonably expect reviewers to provide and which I am always expect to provide anytime I criticise even though the developers are perfectly able to do it themselves.)
Sincerely
Alan Horkan
Inkscape http://inkscape.org Abiword http://www.abisource.com Dia http://gnome.org/projects/dia/ Open Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org
Alan's Diary http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/
On 9/24/05, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> wrote:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005, Ben Fowler wrote:
An interesting problem in any development is getting people to critique it.
[ snip ]
Your friends may be prepared to look at and use the development, but will not often give criticisms. Magazines often ignore and will not publish reviews of below average software.
We have to go out there and look for negative comments, as they are not available just for the taking.
Sure they are, I've no shortage of critisms of Inkscape and the bug tracker is full of them. ...
I am not sure that I completely agree with that, and unless you are sure that you are not missing my point, you might want to check http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CriticsAreYourBestFriends
Ben
On 9/22/05, mental@...3... <mental@...3...> wrote:
Quoting Ben Fowler <ben.the.mole@...400...>:
DO INKSCAPE DEVELOPERS EVER SLEEP?
What is "sleep"?
It is something human beings here on Earth use to do every night. If you and other aliens among developers don't want to be caught be Moulder and Scully, you better teach yourself sleeping or at least pretend to sleep :)
Alexandre
participants (12)
-
unknown＠example.com -
Alan Horkan -
Alexandre Prokoudine -
Ben Fowler -
Bryce Harrington -
bulia byak -
Eric Wilhelm -
John Cliff -
Jon A. Cruz -
Joshua A. Andler -
Nicu Buculei -
Ralf Stephan