Re: [Inkscape-docs] Inkscape Floss Manual
Hello Inkscape people! I haven't been active around here for a few months, so sorry for jumping into the conversation like this! (I haven't read all the other digests so please excuse my lack of context.)
I saw there's some talk about the English translation I started of the Floss manual in April this year (after seeing somewhere on the Inkscape website that we were waiting for the French manual to be translated). Elisa set it up on flossmanuals.net, and I translated the first few chapters (not the titles though, I didn't have access to them in the editor). Not everything was a straight translation, some things were more of an adaptation – sometimes I reworded/rearranged things to be clearer in English. Unfortunately a few weeks later I had to leave it because of work, but I see Sylvain has made great progress on it though!
Sylvain, if you need a hand getting through the rest of the chapters, I can help again – just let me know which ones you'd like me to work on, to avoid editing conflicts. I haven't checked through the translations you've done, would you like me to? I'm a native English speaker :) Cheers,Hinerangi P.S. Seems the mailing list and I are still not friends, I tried sending this email multiple times and it keeps bouncing back :( Hopefully this time it'll work!
On Wednesday, 12 October 2016 5:22 PM, "inkscape-docs-request@...122...forge.net" inkscape-docs-request@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
Send Inkscape-docs mailing list submissions to inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to inkscape-docs-request@lists.sourceforge.net
You can reach the person managing the list at inkscape-docs-owner@lists.sourceforge.net
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Inkscape-docs digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Inkscape Floss manual (Brynn) 2. Re: "The next release" page: Update required (Maren Hachmann) 3. Re: "The next release" page: Update required (Maren Hachmann) 4. Re: "The next release" page: Update required (Sylvain Chiron) 5. Re: Inkscape Floss manual (Sylvain Chiron)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2016 14:45:55 -0600 From: "Brynn" <brynn@...78...> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] Inkscape Floss manual To: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net, "Sylvain Chiron" <chironsylvain@...102...> Message-ID: <9561CFCBB3BE4E32912CA9AABAF89732@...101...> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original
Hi Sylvain, Oh, well I didn't mean to short change you by thinking there were 2 translators. By the tone of Tuxun's message, I thought he (she?) was also translating. Would it be helpful to you, if you just aim for a rough translation, and I can review and "fine tune"? I see that you are doing high quality work, and mostly alone, and I'm trying to think of a way to make it easier for you. (and move the project along at the same time)
brynn
-------------------------------------------------- From: "Sylvain Chiron" <chironsylvain@...102...> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 12:02 PM To: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] Inkscape Floss manual
Hi, and welcome back Mihaela! (I?m replying only to docs, I think it?s enough.)
Le 11/10/2016 ? 16:37, Brynn a ?crit :
Oh wow -- I didn't know we had 2 people working on the translation -- that's great! Thank you both :-)
Well, I think I?m alone actually: https://fr.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/_draft/_v/1.0/about-this-boo... I remember Elisa started by creating most chapters just with the English name, and putting the translation for the first 4 or 5 chapters, then I told her that her English is bad ? :/. (I?m faithful to myself, you know.) I reviewed her texts and added some more translations.
Actually I?m encountering a few problems in my work, making the translation process quite hard and long:
- I have to review the original text so that it?s really good in matter
of spelling, typography, HTML consistency, etc.;
- I?m also trying to be rigour with technical terms and uniform with the
current French translation of the software/docs;
- I sometimes had to improve the pictures because they?re blurred, or to
update the screenshots or the text because the manual was started with 0.48;
- some sentences are hard to understand, have a strange construct, or
sometimes no real meaning, and I have to reflect, change, try, etc.;
- and I?m also trying to improve the ?editorial quality? of the
explanations because I feel it?s weird to translate something that?s not well-refined (I?m just an amateur translator, you know).
I should probably aim for a simple review rather than a translation. Well, I told Elisa I was doing many corrections but wasn?t explicitly asked for a full and deep review. I?m lacking some initiative here ? :P.
But the main reasons that explain why I didn?t go far is that I?m a bit out of Inkscape currently (I will be at least for a few months) and I?ve always been a bit far from the ?user? point of view maybe ? :P. So I?m still following what?s going on and I often give my evil opinion but I won?t involve more unless you regularly say ?hey man, we really need your exceptional skills right now.? Hopefully it won?t be the case too often and I?ll have time for my studies.
And thanks for the link. I'll keep track of it this time.
You?ve got a link to the French book on Inkscape.org: https://inkscape.org/en/contribute/to-do-list/ The published version lacks my reviews though. The drafts are elsewhere? The current French draft is there: https://fr.flossmanuals.net/initiation-inkscape/_draft/_v/1.0/introduction/
How is it going with the translating? I guess we can only see what has been translated so far? Does the French version have a page for every item in the menu on the left?
Yes, there are something like 62 chapters in French. I think what you?re calling a ?page? is actually a ?chapter?. For Elisa, a chapter is a double page, with an explanation on the left, and illustrations on the right. (But apparently she didn?t use the ?Page break? button?) Chapters are organized in sections. The first 9 chapters are fully translated and should be perfect ? :P ? while I?m still waiting some opinion from Elisa. It?s long and exhaustive.
Sorry for looking exhausted; this book is a very nice base but I?m not able to deal with it alone, as my personal skills are quite far from the author?s ones. Help please!
I could think about reviewing the book in the coming months, one or two chapters per week, while something else would work on the translation. I need some feedback or attention regarding my work to go on, unless it?s quite mechanical such as an usual translation work. So we could probably have the English manual ready in a year or a bit more.
Regards,
Sylvain
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
Hi,
Docs and devel are very excited these days and I’m a bit overwhelmed — well, it’s good to see motivation out there —, but I also have something to say just in accordance with the recent website release you might have noticed.
The first point is that I tried to contact you, Hinerangi, as the website designer, about the website responsive view for mobile platforms. Now Inkscape.org will look nice on your cell! See my initial bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape-web/+bug/1614196 Martin and I wanted to know if you had an opinion regarding this design; you might not have received my e-mail. It’s now possible to view the design directly on Inkscape.org, either with your phone browser or your desktop browser’s responsive view. You could also have an opinion concerning the fairly new modal dialogs, or any other good work from Martin & co.
The second point is for the website editors: as you may have seen, now our parent menus do no longer link to a page when clicked, but instead there’s a submenu item in bold font. Initially I set this for the touch-screen devices: you should be able to open the menu, then select the page. But Martin told me to apply this mechanism everywhere. He said that some visitors complained about the parent items being unclear/confusing. Well, you see, you have an ‘About’ page with ‘Inkscape Overview’ in it as a title, but also ‘Overview’ as a submenu. Recognize it’s weird — :S. The current solution is not ideal and we should actually aim to remove the parent menu items; means putting the interesting content in the subitems, possibly creating a new subpage. * ‘About’ may disappear silently. * ‘Download’ will be changed soon, for the new Releases management system. * In ‘News’, we should have a ‘Latest News’ submenu (probably not for editors…). * ‘Learn’ may disappear silently. * ‘Develop’ should have ‘Getting Started’ as first menu item. * ‘Contribute’ should have a similar thing, such as ‘Let’s go’. * ‘Support Us’ might have a synthetical submenu, or disappear. * For ‘Community’ it looks a bit more complicated. Maybe not for right now but at least you’re aware — ;). For the parent URL (that would become inaccessible from the UI), we would have a redirect to the first subitem as a fallback, I’d say.
Good night, -- Sylvain
Hi Sylvain,
I'm sorry I didn't see your email regarding the responsive design, but I quickly checked the website on my phone, great work! I haven't looked at the bug report or the code, but I'll check that out later :)
I'm not sure when the mobile styles went to prod, but if you want I can give you a hand to get it working better cross-platform (it's not responsive on my laptop). I tried working on the responsive styles a few times, but the local dev environment was always difficult on my machine, so it was hard to just do the work, and frustratingly I never got very far. I don't know if you did any refactoring along the way, but a few months ago I felt it would be a good idea – is it better to discuss these things here in the mailing list or do you prefer to take it to normal emails?
In any case, awesome work guys and girls! Cheers,Hinerangi
On Thursday, 13 October 2016 5:05 AM, Sylvain Chiron <chironsylvain@...120...102...> wrote:
Hi,
Docs and devel are very excited these days and I’m a bit overwhelmed — well, it’s good to see motivation out there —, but I also have something to say just in accordance with the recent website release you might have noticed.
The first point is that I tried to contact you, Hinerangi, as the website designer, about the website responsive view for mobile platforms. Now Inkscape.org will look nice on your cell! See my initial bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape-web/+bug/1614196 Martin and I wanted to know if you had an opinion regarding this design; you might not have received my e-mail. It’s now possible to view the design directly on Inkscape.org, either with your phone browser or your desktop browser’s responsive view. You could also have an opinion concerning the fairly new modal dialogs, or any other good work from Martin & co.
The second point is for the website editors: as you may have seen, now our parent menus do no longer link to a page when clicked, but instead there’s a submenu item in bold font. Initially I set this for the touch-screen devices: you should be able to open the menu, then select the page. But Martin told me to apply this mechanism everywhere. He said that some visitors complained about the parent items being unclear/confusing. Well, you see, you have an ‘About’ page with ‘Inkscape Overview’ in it as a title, but also ‘Overview’ as a submenu. Recognize it’s weird — :S. The current solution is not ideal and we should actually aim to remove the parent menu items; means putting the interesting content in the subitems, possibly creating a new subpage. * ‘About’ may disappear silently. * ‘Download’ will be changed soon, for the new Releases management system. * In ‘News’, we should have a ‘Latest News’ submenu (probably not for editors…). * ‘Learn’ may disappear silently. * ‘Develop’ should have ‘Getting Started’ as first menu item. * ‘Contribute’ should have a similar thing, such as ‘Let’s go’. * ‘Support Us’ might have a synthetical submenu, or disappear. * For ‘Community’ it looks a bit more complicated. Maybe not for right now but at least you’re aware — ;). For the parent URL (that would become inaccessible from the UI), we would have a redirect to the first subitem as a fallback, I’d say.
Good night, -- Sylvain
Am 13.10.2016 um 12:33 schrieb Hinerangi Courtenay:
Hi Sylvain,
I'm sorry I didn't see your email regarding the responsive design, but I quickly checked the website on my phone, great work! I haven't looked at the bug report or the code, but I'll check that out later :)
I'm not sure when the mobile styles went to prod, but if you want I can give you a hand to get it working better cross-platform (it's not responsive on my laptop). I tried working on the responsive styles a few times, but the local dev environment was always difficult on my machine, so it was hard to just do the work, and frustratingly I never got very far.
- Hinerangi, great to see you again (and all this sudden buzzing of people, it's amazing!)
Would it help you to have a VirtualMachine for VirtualBox, where everything is set up and the only things you'd need to do is open a terminal and enter a command to run the server / edit the files?
Regards, Maren
I like the vm idea. I'm used to working with Ansible for our projects at work.
I'm also available for responsive frontend work. I can code or do code review as needed.
-- Frédéric Guimont, Consultant en logiciels libres Savoir-faire Linux
Téléphone : 418-525-7354 #362 Ring ID : d9396b8004d26120f1e948ac7a075ab7dd165077 www.savoirfairelinux.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maren Hachmann" <maren@...68...> To: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 8:15:38 AM Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] Website design
Am 13.10.2016 um 12:33 schrieb Hinerangi Courtenay:
Hi Sylvain,
I'm sorry I didn't see your email regarding the responsive design, but I quickly checked the website on my phone, great work! I haven't looked at the bug report or the code, but I'll check that out later :)
I'm not sure when the mobile styles went to prod, but if you want I can give you a hand to get it working better cross-platform (it's not responsive on my laptop). I tried working on the responsive styles a few times, but the local dev environment was always difficult on my machine, so it was hard to just do the work, and frustratingly I never got very far.
- Hinerangi, great to see you again (and all this sudden buzzing of
people, it's amazing!)
Would it help you to have a VirtualMachine for VirtualBox, where everything is set up and the only things you'd need to do is open a terminal and enter a command to run the server / edit the files?
Regards, Maren
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
Am 13.10.2016 um 16:36 schrieb Frédéric Guimont:
I like the vm idea. I'm used to working with Ansible for our projects at work.
I've prepared a VM for VirtualBox (or any other virtualization software that can read ova files) and some instructions for use, and could upload it later today, so anyone who is interested can use it for working on the website development version locally.
Regards, Maren
I'm also available for responsive frontend work. I can code or do code review as needed.
-- Frédéric Guimont, Consultant en logiciels libres Savoir-faire Linux
Téléphone : 418-525-7354 #362 Ring ID : d9396b8004d26120f1e948ac7a075ab7dd165077 www.savoirfairelinux.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maren Hachmann" <maren@...68...> To: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 8:15:38 AM Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] Website design
Am 13.10.2016 um 12:33 schrieb Hinerangi Courtenay:
Hi Sylvain,
I'm sorry I didn't see your email regarding the responsive design, but I quickly checked the website on my phone, great work! I haven't looked at the bug report or the code, but I'll check that out later :)
I'm not sure when the mobile styles went to prod, but if you want I can give you a hand to get it working better cross-platform (it's not responsive on my laptop). I tried working on the responsive styles a few times, but the local dev environment was always difficult on my machine, so it was hard to just do the work, and frustratingly I never got very far.
- Hinerangi, great to see you again (and all this sudden buzzing of
people, it's amazing!)
Would it help you to have a VirtualMachine for VirtualBox, where everything is set up and the only things you'd need to do is open a terminal and enter a command to run the server / edit the files?
Regards, Maren
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
Hello Maren, please let me know when you have the vm available. I don't have much time today, but i'd like to take a look at it and see if I can get it running.
Thanks, -- Frédéric Guimont, Consultant en logiciels libres Savoir-faire Linux
Téléphone : 418-525-7354 #362 Ring ID : d9396b8004d26120f1e948ac7a075ab7dd165077 www.savoirfairelinux.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maren Hachmann" <maren@...68...> To: "Frédéric Guimont" <frederic.guimont@...132...> Cc: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 10:16:47 PM Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] Website design
Am 13.10.2016 um 16:36 schrieb Frédéric Guimont:
I like the vm idea. I'm used to working with Ansible for our projects at work.
I've prepared a VM for VirtualBox (or any other virtualization software that can read ova files) and some instructions for use, and could upload it later today, so anyone who is interested can use it for working on the website development version locally.
Regards, Maren
I'm also available for responsive frontend work. I can code or do code review as needed.
-- Frédéric Guimont, Consultant en logiciels libres Savoir-faire Linux
Téléphone : 418-525-7354 #362 Ring ID : d9396b8004d26120f1e948ac7a075ab7dd165077 www.savoirfairelinux.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maren Hachmann" <maren@...68...> To: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 8:15:38 AM Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] Website design
Am 13.10.2016 um 12:33 schrieb Hinerangi Courtenay:
Hi Sylvain,
I'm sorry I didn't see your email regarding the responsive design, but I quickly checked the website on my phone, great work! I haven't looked at the bug report or the code, but I'll check that out later :)
I'm not sure when the mobile styles went to prod, but if you want I can give you a hand to get it working better cross-platform (it's not responsive on my laptop). I tried working on the responsive styles a few times, but the local dev environment was always difficult on my machine, so it was hard to just do the work, and frustratingly I never got very far.
- Hinerangi, great to see you again (and all this sudden buzzing of
people, it's amazing!)
Would it help you to have a VirtualMachine for VirtualBox, where everything is set up and the only things you'd need to do is open a terminal and enter a command to run the server / edit the files?
Regards, Maren
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
Le 13/10/2016 à 12:33, Hinerangi Courtenay a écrit :
I'm not sure when the mobile styles went to prod,
Just a few days ago.
but if you want I can give you a hand to get it working better cross-platform (it's not responsive on my laptop).
I guess you’ve got some Retina display with the crunched Apple behind it. Well, any good window manager has a feature called ‘tiling’ so that you can take advantage of a large display — :P.
I tried working on the responsive styles a few times, but the local dev environment was always difficult on my machine, so it was hard to just do the work, and frustratingly I never got very far.
Local servers are a bit laggy for me but work quite well. Yes, I got some info from Martin and Brynn and searched the ML archives, I saw that you proposed two new designs: a modernization of the current one using the full width (made in code) and a mockup of a new design. (Unfortunately I had already started my work for mobile devices.)
I don't know if you did any refactoring along the way, but a few months ago I felt it would be a good idea –
CSS rules for small screens are gathered in a separate file. But indeed I did some refactoring; older rules didn’t really look pretty… And I’m some kind of perfectionist.
is it better to discuss these things here in the mailing list or do you prefer to take it to normal emails?
The best would probably be bug reports. We can probably talk off the list and only share a synthesis.
Launchpad is also an unfamiliar tool for me (used to Github, Bitbucket, Gitlab, etc), so I really should take the time to get used to it (at least just the code/issues/pull requests).
A few tips: * pull requests are called ‘merge requests’ on Launchpad (makes more sense to me); * you have to use Bazaar as VCS (there’s a page on Inkscape.org to introduce it); * the organization is quite logical, but the link you’re looking for is sometimes not as salient as you could expect.
In any case, awesome work guys and girls!
Thanks! -- Sylvain
Additional:
Since inkscape is moving to Git(Hub|Lab) there is the prospect of moving inkscape-web there too. I know there's a few people who would be happy to use these tools, so if you're a contributor or likely to be one, let me know.
We'd probably move our issues though, as much as possible to keep things together.
Martin,
I'm already on gitlab and github, so it would be a welcomed move in my case. Looking forward to it.
-- Frédéric Guimont, Consultant en logiciels libres Savoir-faire Linux
Téléphone : 418-525-7354 #362 Ring ID : d9396b8004d26120f1e948ac7a075ab7dd165077 www.savoirfairelinux.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Owens" <doctormo@...2...> To: "Sylvain Chiron" <chironsylvain@...102...>, "Hinerangi Courtenay" <nospamunicornus-mailinglist@...5...> Cc: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 4:05:37 PM Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] Website design
Additional:
Since inkscape is moving to Git(Hub|Lab) there is the prospect of moving inkscape-web there too. I know there's a few people who would be happy to use these tools, so if you're a contributor or likely to be one, let me know.
We'd probably move our issues though, as much as possible to keep things together.
Martin,
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
participants (5)
-
Frédéric Guimont -
Hinerangi Courtenay -
Maren Hachmann -
Martin Owens -
Sylvain Chiron