What can we improve in our wiki?
Hi All,
I was just taking a look at Blender's Wiki ( https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Main_Page) and I was happy to identify they are using a similar wiki engine as we are. But I also noticed that they have a more modern (beautiful?) visual than we do. Is this something we are able to implement in our wiki as well?
Besides this... are we going to revamp our wiki and centralize documentation material in it? Or are we going to readthedocs? Or are we going to centralize our efforts in the Gitlab wiki feature? Please let me know.
I am really excited to read the article on how to write themes and icon sets for inkscape 1.x once it is ready.
Thanks, Victor
As far as I understand, when the current website started to be developed (approx 5 years ago) the website was to be groomed towards users and the wiki was going to be groomed to be development-facing.
So putting any articles benefitting users in the wiki would not be appropriate.
This sounds like it might be a borderline case, where an article on how to write themes and create icons sets would benefit both developers and users. Perhaps such an article should be cross posted - both in the wiki and in the gallery? (Although such an article would need to be written in 2 different ways - one in developer-speak, and the other which non-tech-savy users could understand....)
As far as the GitLab repo, while I have not heard anything about which group it's meant to serve, to me, GL is primarily for developers as well.
It seems like I heard a whisper, maybe 3 or even 4 years ago, about wanting to close the wiki. I don't remember what was supposed to replace it, but GL had not been mentioned at that time. As far as I understand, GL has a wiki, doesn't it?
Yep, that's alls I know :p
Happy New Year!
brynn
On 12/29/2019 11:08 PM, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi All,
I was just taking a look at Blender's Wiki (https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Main_Page) and I was happy to identify they are using a similar wiki engine as we are. But I also noticed that they have a more modern (beautiful?) visual than we do. Is this something we are able to implement in our wiki as well?
Besides this... are we going to revamp our wiki and centralize documentation material in it? Or are we going to readthedocs? Or are we going to centralize our efforts in the Gitlab wiki feature? Please let me know.
I am really excited to read the article on how to write themes and icon sets for inkscape 1.x once it is ready.
Thanks, Victor
Inkscape Docs mailing list -- inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-docs-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Hi Brynn, thank you for all the info you provided.
The question that remains is: there are a lot of info for developers, which is good, of course. But not everyone is a developer. We all understand the more developers we have for our project, the better.
But we also need to encourage our user base to grow, specially to convert part of our user base into volunteers. We can always use more hands/brains! But (sorry for the 3rd but in a row) we need to make sure we have some sort of place to point new users on how to start translating things (we have decent material today, but we could improved things (at least on the Windows aspect/users side of things))
And I am lacking a place where our users could read more about specific things they could help the project (translating inkscape interface, translating tutorials, translating the website, onboarding more people to help with bug triaging, ideas to redesign interface, and so forth...).
What do you think?
Happy new year!
Thanks, Victor
On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 11:07 PM brynn brynn@frii.com wrote:
As far as I understand, when the current website started to be developed (approx 5 years ago) the website was to be groomed towards users and the wiki was going to be groomed to be development-facing.
So putting any articles benefitting users in the wiki would not be appropriate.
This sounds like it might be a borderline case, where an article on how to write themes and create icons sets would benefit both developers and users. Perhaps such an article should be cross posted - both in the wiki and in the gallery? (Although such an article would need to be written in 2 different ways - one in developer-speak, and the other which non-tech-savy users could understand....)
As far as the GitLab repo, while I have not heard anything about which group it's meant to serve, to me, GL is primarily for developers as well.
It seems like I heard a whisper, maybe 3 or even 4 years ago, about wanting to close the wiki. I don't remember what was supposed to replace it, but GL had not been mentioned at that time. As far as I understand, GL has a wiki, doesn't it?
Yep, that's alls I know :p
Happy New Year!
brynn
On 12/29/2019 11:08 PM, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi All,
I was just taking a look at Blender's Wiki (https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Main_Page) and I was happy to identify they are using a similar wiki engine as we are. But I also noticed that they have a more modern (beautiful?) visual than we do. Is this something we are able to implement in our wiki as well?
Besides this... are we going to revamp our wiki and centralize documentation material in it? Or are we going to readthedocs? Or are we going to centralize our efforts in the Gitlab wiki feature? Please let me know.
I am really excited to read the article on how to write themes and icon sets for inkscape 1.x once it is ready.
Thanks, Victor
Inkscape Docs mailing list -- inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-docs-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Hi both,
some background:
* Discussions about closing the Wiki surfaced because it was running (mostly unmaintained) on a server maintained by OSUOSL (and they expressed interest in shutting that server down). One idea was to migrate to GitLab Wikis instead (because that was readily available without the need to set-up anything from our side). However multiple people (including me) voted against GitLab Wikis, because *every* project on GitLab can have a Wiki, so information would be scattered and impossible to find. Also the GitLab Wikis lack a lot of functionality compared to the wide-spread and well-known MediaWiki software that runs on wiki.inkscape.org (it's the software that runs Wikipedia!) Also, we've migrated the Wiki to our own server since then and updated it, so the original issue that made us question it's existence is resolved. * Brynn is right that user-facing docs should be on the Website, mostly because it's the primary entry point for new users and because it can (and is supposed to be) translated, whereas we expect developers to speak English (code is English after all). However editing is not always as straightforward as it could be and Martin isn't happy with the CMS, so actually there are some ideas to change how content on the website is maintained going forward. It won't change however (at least as far as I interpret the situation) *what* content is maintained on the website. That means user-facing content will stay on the website and will continue to be translated. * "Developer-facing" documentation on the other hand is primarily kept on the Wiki. That's because it is easy and quick to edit, has good search capabilities, versioning, etc. - stuff that is important for the short-lived nature of developer-facing documentation, which at the same time makes it mostly unsuitable for the website itself. One important thing to note is that "developer-facing" does not only mean people working on code, but this includes extension authors, translators, packagers and other "technical" folks, i.e. most of the topics Victor mentioned. Basically everything that does not need to "look nice" but needs to be properly documented somewhere.
One interesting question is if we could combine both (website and wiki) in future. Martin had some thoughts about grabbing the content from the wiki and embed it into the website, which could be nice as it would unify the way articles are written, but this is still some way in the future...
Cheers Patrick
Am 30.12.2019 um 09:01 schrieb Victor Westmann:
Hi Brynn, thank you for all the info you provided.
The question that remains is: there are a lot of info for developers, which is good, of course. But not everyone is a developer. We all understand the more developers we have for our project, the better.
But we also need to encourage our user base to grow, specially to convert part of our user base into volunteers. We can always use more hands/brains! But (sorry for the 3rd but in a row) we need to make sure we have some sort of place to point new users on how to start translating things (we have decent material today, but we could improved things (at least on the Windows aspect/users side of things))
And I am lacking a place where our users could read more about specific things they could help the project (translating inkscape interface, translating tutorials, translating the website, onboarding more people to help with bug triaging, ideas to redesign interface, and so forth...).
What do you think?
Happy new year!
Thanks, Victor
On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 11:07 PM brynn <brynn@frii.com mailto:brynn@frii.com> wrote:
As far as I understand, when the current website started to be developed (approx 5 years ago) the website was to be groomed towards users and the wiki was going to be groomed to be development-facing. So putting any articles benefitting users in the wiki would not be appropriate. This sounds like it might be a borderline case, where an article on how to write themes and create icons sets would benefit both developers and users. Perhaps such an article should be cross posted - both in the wiki and in the gallery? (Although such an article would need to be written in 2 different ways - one in developer-speak, and the other which non-tech-savy users could understand....) As far as the GitLab repo, while I have not heard anything about which group it's meant to serve, to me, GL is primarily for developers as well. It seems like I heard a whisper, maybe 3 or even 4 years ago, about wanting to close the wiki. I don't remember what was supposed to replace it, but GL had not been mentioned at that time. As far as I understand, GL has a wiki, doesn't it? Yep, that's alls I know :p Happy New Year! brynn On 12/29/2019 11:08 PM, Victor Westmann wrote: > Hi All, > > I was just taking a look at Blender's Wiki > (https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Main_Page) and I was happy to identify > they are using a similar wiki engine as we are. But I also noticed that > they have a more modern (beautiful?) visual than we do. Is this > something we are able to implement in our wiki as well? > > Besides this... are we going to revamp our wiki and centralize > documentation material in it? Or are we going to readthedocs? Or are we > going to centralize our efforts in the Gitlab wiki feature? Please let > me know. > > I am really excited to read the article on how to write themes and icon > sets for inkscape 1.x once it is ready. > > Thanks, > Victor > > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape Docs mailing list -- inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org <mailto:inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-docs-leave@lists.inkscape.org <mailto:inkscape-docs-leave@lists.inkscape.org> >
Inkscape Docs mailing list -- inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-docs-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Thanks Patrick,
It might be an embarassing reverse ferret on the wiki's usefulness but since we've got a sort-of up to date mediawiki, and precious few people have taken to using the GitLab wiki, it also makes sense to consider the wiki the primary source of information.
As well as website CMS pages, also consider the way in which release notes are drafted on the wiki and then placed inside the releases app. That is, they are made available through the website, but not through the CMS. So the wiki is also a place for drafting as well as for community documentation.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Mon, 2019-12-30 at 14:51 +0100, Patrick Storz wrote:
Hi both, some background: Discussions about closing the Wiki surfaced because it was running (mostly unmaintained) on a server maintained by OSUOSL (and they expressed interest in shutting that server down). One idea was to migrate to GitLab Wikis instead (because that was readily available without the need to set-up anything from our side). However multiple people (including me) voted against GitLab Wikis, because *every* project on GitLab can have a Wiki, so information would be scattered and impossible to find. Also the GitLab Wikis lack a lot of functionality compared to the wide-spread and well-known MediaWiki software that runs on wiki.inkscape.org (it's the software that runs Wikipedia!) Also, we've migrated the Wiki to our own server since then and updated it, so the original issue that made us question it's existence is resolved. Brynn is right that user-facing docs should be on the Website, mostly because it's the primary entry point for new users and because it can (and is supposed to be) translated, whereas we expect developers to speak English (code is English after all). However editing is not always as straightforward as it could be and Martin isn't happy with the CMS, so actually there are some ideas to change how content on the website is maintained going forward. It won't change however (at least as far as I interpret the situation) *what* content is maintained on the website. That means user-facing content will stay on the website and will continue to be translated. "Developer-facing" documentation on the other hand is primarily kept on the Wiki. That's because it is easy and quick to edit, has good search capabilities, versioning, etc. - stuff that is important for the short-lived nature of developer-facing documentation, which at the same time makes it mostly unsuitable for the website itself. One important thing to note is that "developer-facing" does not only mean people working on code, but this includes extension authors, translators, packagers and other "technical" folks, i.e. most of the topics Victor mentioned. Basically everything that does not need to "look nice" but needs to be properly documented somewhere. One interesting question is if we could combine both (website and wiki) in future. Martin had some thoughts about grabbing the content from the wiki and embed it into the website, which could be nice as it would unify the way articles are written, but this is still some way in the future... Cheers Patrick
Am 30.12.2019 um 09:01 schrieb Victor Westmann:
Hi Brynn, thank you for all the info you provided.
The question that remains is: there are a lot of info for developers, which is good, of course. But not everyone is a developer. We all understand the more developers we have for our project, the better.
But we also need to encourage our user base to grow, specially to convert part of our user base into volunteers. We can always use more hands/brains! But (sorry for the 3rd but in a row) we need to make sure we have some sort of place to point new users on how to start translating things (we have decent material today, but we could improved things (at least on the Windows aspect/users side of things))
And I am lacking a place where our users could read more about specific things they could help the project (translating inkscape interface, translating tutorials, translating the website, onboarding more people to help with bug triaging, ideas to redesign interface, and so forth...).
What do you think?
Happy new year!
Thanks, Victor
On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 11:07 PM brynn brynn@frii.com wrote:
As far as I understand, when the current website started to be developed (approx 5 years ago) the website was to be groomed towards users and the wiki was going to be groomed to be development-facing.
So putting any articles benefitting users in the wiki would not be appropriate.
This sounds like it might be a borderline case, where an article on how to write themes and create icons sets would benefit both developers and users. Perhaps such an article should be cross posted - both in the wiki and in the gallery? (Although such an article would need to be written in 2 different ways - one in developer-speak, and the other which non-tech-savy users could understand....)
As far as the GitLab repo, while I have not heard anything about which group it's meant to serve, to me, GL is primarily for developers as well.
It seems like I heard a whisper, maybe 3 or even 4 years ago, about wanting to close the wiki. I don't remember what was supposed to replace it, but GL had not been mentioned at that time. As far as I understand, GL has a wiki, doesn't it?
Yep, that's alls I know :p
Happy New Year!
brynn
On 12/29/2019 11:08 PM, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi All,
I was just taking a look at Blender's Wiki (https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Main_Page) and I was happy to
identify
they are using a similar wiki engine as we are. But I also
noticed that
they have a more modern (beautiful?) visual than we do. Is
this
something we are able to implement in our wiki as well?
Besides this... are we going to revamp our wiki and centralize documentation material in it? Or are we going to readthedocs?
Or are we
going to centralize our efforts in the Gitlab wiki feature?
Please let
me know.
I am really excited to read the article on how to write themes
and icon
sets for inkscape 1.x once it is ready.
Thanks, Victor
Inkscape Docs mailing list -- inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to
inkscape-docs-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Inkscape Docs mailing list -- inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-docs-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Inkscape Docs mailing list -- inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-docs-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Hi Patrick,
Thank you for fighting the extinction of the wiki. And I had no idea that by the word developers you meant basically everyone that is involved in the backstage of the project (core developers, extension developers, translators, packagers, bug triagers... etc).
We could organize the documentation mainly by 2 points. Display it first sorted by Inkscape version and secondly by Language translated. Just like python project did here >> https://docs.python.org/3/
Do we know if something like this is possible?
Thanks, Victor
On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 8:28 AM Martin Owens doctormo@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Patrick,
It might be an embarassing reverse ferret on the wiki's usefulness but since we've got a sort-of up to date mediawiki, and precious few people have taken to using the GitLab wiki, it also makes sense to consider the wiki the primary source of information.
As well as website CMS pages, also consider the way in which release notes are drafted on the wiki and then placed inside the releases app. That is, they are made available through the website, but not through the CMS. So the wiki is also a place for drafting as well as for community documentation.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Mon, 2019-12-30 at 14:51 +0100, Patrick Storz wrote:
Hi both, some background: Discussions about closing the Wiki surfaced because it was running (mostly unmaintained) on a server maintained by OSUOSL (and they expressed interest in shutting that server down). One idea was to migrate to GitLab Wikis instead (because that was readily available without the need to set-up anything from our side). However multiple people (including me) voted against GitLab Wikis, because *every* project on GitLab can have a Wiki, so information would be scattered and impossible to find. Also the GitLab Wikis lack a lot of functionality compared to the wide-spread and well-known MediaWiki software that runs on wiki.inkscape.org (it's the software that runs Wikipedia!) Also, we've migrated the Wiki to our own server since then and updated it, so the original issue that made us question it's existence is resolved. Brynn is right that user-facing docs should be on the Website, mostly because it's the primary entry point for new users and because it can (and is supposed to be) translated, whereas we expect developers to speak English (code is English after all). However editing is not always as straightforward as it could be and Martin isn't happy with the CMS, so actually there are some ideas to change how content on the website is maintained going forward. It won't change however (at least as far as I interpret the situation) *what* content is maintained on the website. That means user-facing content will stay on the website and will continue to be translated. "Developer-facing" documentation on the other hand is primarily kept on the Wiki. That's because it is easy and quick to edit, has good search capabilities, versioning, etc. - stuff that is important for the short-lived nature of developer-facing documentation, which at the same time makes it mostly unsuitable for the website itself. One important thing to note is that "developer-facing" does not only mean people working on code, but this includes extension authors, translators, packagers and other "technical" folks, i.e. most of the topics Victor mentioned. Basically everything that does not need to "look nice" but needs to be properly documented somewhere. One interesting question is if we could combine both (website and wiki) in future. Martin had some thoughts about grabbing the content from the wiki and embed it into the website, which could be nice as it would unify the way articles are written, but this is still some way in the future... Cheers Patrick
Am 30.12.2019 um 09:01 schrieb Victor Westmann:
Hi Brynn, thank you for all the info you provided.
The question that remains is: there are a lot of info for developers, which is good, of course. But not everyone is a developer. We all understand the more developers we have for our project, the better.
But we also need to encourage our user base to grow, specially to convert part of our user base into volunteers. We can always use more hands/brains! But (sorry for the 3rd but in a row) we need to make sure we have some sort of place to point new users on how to start translating things (we have decent material today, but we could improved things (at least on the Windows aspect/users side of things))
And I am lacking a place where our users could read more about specific things they could help the project (translating inkscape interface, translating tutorials, translating the website, onboarding more people to help with bug triaging, ideas to redesign interface, and so forth...).
What do you think?
Happy new year!
Thanks, Victor
On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 11:07 PM brynn brynn@frii.com wrote:
As far as I understand, when the current website started to be developed (approx 5 years ago) the website was to be groomed towards users and the wiki was going to be groomed to be development-facing.
So putting any articles benefitting users in the wiki would not be appropriate.
This sounds like it might be a borderline case, where an article on how to write themes and create icons sets would benefit both developers and users. Perhaps such an article should be cross posted - both in the wiki and in the gallery? (Although such an article would need to be written in 2 different ways - one in developer-speak, and the other which non-tech-savy users could understand....)
As far as the GitLab repo, while I have not heard anything about which group it's meant to serve, to me, GL is primarily for developers as well.
It seems like I heard a whisper, maybe 3 or even 4 years ago, about wanting to close the wiki. I don't remember what was supposed to replace it, but GL had not been mentioned at that time. As far as I understand, GL has a wiki, doesn't it?
Yep, that's alls I know :p
Happy New Year!
brynn
On 12/29/2019 11:08 PM, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi All,
I was just taking a look at Blender's Wiki (https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Main_Page) and I was happy to
identify
they are using a similar wiki engine as we are. But I also
noticed that
they have a more modern (beautiful?) visual than we do. Is
this
something we are able to implement in our wiki as well?
Besides this... are we going to revamp our wiki and centralize documentation material in it? Or are we going to readthedocs?
Or are we
going to centralize our efforts in the Gitlab wiki feature?
Please let
me know.
I am really excited to read the article on how to write themes
and icon
sets for inkscape 1.x once it is ready.
Thanks, Victor
Inkscape Docs mailing list -- inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to
inkscape-docs-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Inkscape Docs mailing list -- inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-docs-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Inkscape Docs mailing list -- inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-docs-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Hi Victor, I thought I replied to this, but I can't find it. So sorry if this is a duplicate info.
The Contribute menu is designed to bring in more users. If you have any suggestions for more information that could be provided, I'm sure the community would be glad to discuss it and create anything that would help add more user participation.
All best, brynn
On 12/30/2019 1:01 AM, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi Brynn, thank you for all the info you provided.
The question that remains is: there are a lot of info for developers, which is good, of course. But not everyone is a developer. We all understand the more developers we have for our project, the better.
But we also need to encourage our user base to grow, specially to convert part of our user base into volunteers. We can always use more hands/brains! But (sorry for the 3rd but in a row) we need to make sure we have some sort of place to point new users on how to start translating things (we have decent material today, but we could improved things (at least on the Windows aspect/users side of things))
And I am lacking a place where our users could read more about specific things they could help the project (translating inkscape interface, translating tutorials, translating the website, onboarding more people to help with bug triaging, ideas to redesign interface, and so forth...).
What do you think?
Happy new year!
Thanks, Victor
On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 11:07 PM brynn <brynn@frii.com mailto:brynn@frii.com> wrote:
As far as I understand, when the current website started to be developed (approx 5 years ago) the website was to be groomed towards users and the wiki was going to be groomed to be development-facing. So putting any articles benefitting users in the wiki would not be appropriate. This sounds like it might be a borderline case, where an article on how to write themes and create icons sets would benefit both developers and users. Perhaps such an article should be cross posted - both in the wiki and in the gallery? (Although such an article would need to be written in 2 different ways - one in developer-speak, and the other which non-tech-savy users could understand....) As far as the GitLab repo, while I have not heard anything about which group it's meant to serve, to me, GL is primarily for developers as well. It seems like I heard a whisper, maybe 3 or even 4 years ago, about wanting to close the wiki. I don't remember what was supposed to replace it, but GL had not been mentioned at that time. As far as I understand, GL has a wiki, doesn't it? Yep, that's alls I know :p Happy New Year! brynn On 12/29/2019 11:08 PM, Victor Westmann wrote: > Hi All, > > I was just taking a look at Blender's Wiki > (https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Main_Page) and I was happy to identify > they are using a similar wiki engine as we are. But I also noticed that > they have a more modern (beautiful?) visual than we do. Is this > something we are able to implement in our wiki as well? > > Besides this... are we going to revamp our wiki and centralize > documentation material in it? Or are we going to readthedocs? Or are we > going to centralize our efforts in the Gitlab wiki feature? Please let > me know. > > I am really excited to read the article on how to write themes and icon > sets for inkscape 1.x once it is ready. > > Thanks, > Victor > > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape Docs mailing list -- inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org <mailto:inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-docs-leave@lists.inkscape.org <mailto:inkscape-docs-leave@lists.inkscape.org> >
participants (4)
-
brynn -
Martin Owens -
Patrick Storz -
Victor Westmann