Any interest for the translations to move to Rosetta on LP?
Hey Translators!
Following is a message that was sent to Bryce regarding translations. Given that I don't do any translating, I don't feel it appropriate to chime in other than saying that it sounds like it would be beneficial to our translators. Would you all be interested in giving it a shot?
Cheers, Josh
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Hi Bryce,
Seeing that now Inkscape has migrated to Bazaar, I was wondering if they could also benefit from another of the advantages of using Launchpad: Translations.
The current workflow for submitting translations in Inkscape (download PO file from the repo, translate it offline, submit it as a bug in LP and let the developers commit it) would greatly be improved for both translators and maintainers:
* Translators: they could use the web UI to translate, not having to worry about browsing through repositories, downloading PO files and keeping track of when their translations are committed (they'd be used straight away, transparently). They'd then be able to use all the cool Rosetta features: global translation suggestions (i.e. point and click translation), spell checking from the browser, translation sharing (sharing between series means that they no longer will have to fix mistakes in all branches: they'll do it in one and changes instantly propagate to all shared ones), online translating with a clean interface, etc. For those still wanting to use the old workflow and translate offline, Rosetta is flexible enough in the sense that it allows downloading the PO files, translate offline and upload the finished translation. * Maintainers: choosing automatic imports and exports of translations from bzr branches, they will no longer have to worry about translations. They'll only have to update the POT template before release and announce the string freeze as usual, commit it and it will be updated in Launchpad exposing the new strings. With automatic exports translations will be committed daily to a branch of their choice. Additionally, the work that is currently going on in automatically regenerating POT templates means that in the future they won't even have to worry about that.Using all these features is only a few clicks away, and I'd feel happy for both translators and the Inkscape maintainers if this move were also considered. I'd also be willing to give a hand with setting it up and advice if they decided to go ahead with it and need help.
The basic steps would be:
* Enabling automatic translation imports from a bzr branch at https://translations.launchpad.net/inkscape/trunk/+translations-settings * Keeping the (already generated) POT template under version control, that is committing it to the bzr branch * Choosing a permissions policy for translations * Enabling translation sharing * Enabling automatic translation exports at https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/inkscape/trunk/+translations-settingsFor more information:
* Importing translations: https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/ImportingTemplates and http://blog.launchpad.net/translations/screencast-importing-translation-templates-from-a-bazaar-branch * Choosing a permission policy: https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/PermissionPolicies * Translation sharing: http://blog.launchpad.net/translations/screencast-sharing-translations-between-releases-of-the-same-project * Exporting translations: https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/Exports and http://blog.launchpad.net/translations/screencast-exporting-translations-to-a-bazaar-branchDo you think they'd be interested? If so, who should we talk to?
Hi Joshua,
De : Joshua A. Andler <scislac@...5...> Following is a message that was sent to Bryce regarding translations. Given that I don't do any translating, I don't feel it appropriate to chime in other than saying that it sounds like it would be beneficial to our translators. Would you all be interested in giving it a shot?
I've already used Rosetta in some other projects, and I'm not found of its UI (I feel it is not easy to use when you have *lots* of strings to translate). But it's probably an excellent tool if we want to share our translations with new users (particularly if you're a one translator team...) and improve translations consistency. And since we can also use the old way, there's no risk in trying it. Ok, let's try it! -- Nicolas
написане Fri, 04 Dec 2009 22:14:03 +0200, Joshua A. Andler <scislac@...5...>:
Hey Translators!
Following is a message that was sent to Bryce regarding translations. Given that I don't do any translating, I don't feel it appropriate to chime in other than saying that it sounds like it would be beneficial to our translators. Would you all be interested in giving it a shot?
Cheers, Josh
Hi!
Personally I do not like this idea. Online translations are slow and inefficient with LP. Some of Rosetta "benefits" mentioned are hilarious (have you ever seen offline translation tool without spellchecking and TM these days?). Rosetta does not hightlight diffs in messages (as Lokalize and Virtaal), does not support fuzzy messages, has slow procedure of offline translations download.
Will documentation also be moved to Rosetta? All translations will be relicensed under BSD or Inkscape will be relicensed under BSD?
And one more question: what will be the policy of the translation (open, restricted)?
Thanks in advance.
Yuri Ukrainian translator
Yuri Chornoivan scrisse:
Personally I do not like this idea. Online translations are slow and inefficient with LP. Some of Rosetta "benefits" mentioned are hilarious (have you ever seen offline translation tool without spellchecking and TM these days?). Rosetta does not hightlight diffs in messages (as Lokalize and Virtaal), does not support fuzzy messages, has slow procedure of offline translations download.
Been there, used that, not fond of it too. My opinion is almost the same as Yuri's one, only adding that the current process seems to be working well enough not to force us to change it right now. The only bonus point I can see there is a bigger base of translators for not-so-widespread languages, but I'm much more worried about how it would negatively impact on the overall style, correctness and coherence (yes, already had bad experiences for these ones as well).
Cheers, Luca
Why change? Usage of Launchpad's Bazaar can extend our current working environment and allow us to work on the files online and get suggestion from Launchpad as well as working directly on the PO file, Bazaar can be updated the same way SVN does plus adding the online editing feature, I can't see what's wrong with that, those who would like to work in the old-fashioned way can keep on doing it but those who prefer moving on to launchpad can choose to do so... Am I right? Yaron Shahrabani - CTO "The Campus" Web: http://www.hacampus.org.il/ Israeli Applicable Studies Institute 200 Hativat Yiftah St., Karmiel, Israel Phone Number: +972 (4) 9988508
On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Luca Bruno <gnug.torte@...20...> wrote:
Yuri Chornoivan scrisse:
Personally I do not like this idea. Online translations are slow and inefficient with LP. Some of Rosetta "benefits" mentioned are hilarious (have you ever seen offline translation tool without spellchecking and TM these days?). Rosetta does not hightlight diffs in messages (as Lokalize and Virtaal), does not support fuzzy messages, has slow procedure of offline translations download.
Been there, used that, not fond of it too. My opinion is almost the same as Yuri's one, only adding that the current process seems to be working well enough not to force us to change it right now. The only bonus point I can see there is a bigger base of translators for not-so-widespread languages, but I'm much more worried about how it would negatively impact on the overall style, correctness and coherence (yes, already had bad experiences for these ones as well).
Cheers, Luca
-- .''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Luca Bruno (kaeso) : :' : The Universal O.S. | lucab (AT) debian.org `. `'` | GPG Key ID: 3BFB9FB3 `- http://www.debian.org | Debian GNU/Linux Developer
Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev _______________________________________________ Inkscape-translator mailing list Inkscape-translator@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-translator
написане Sat, 05 Dec 2009 13:25:21 +0200, Yaron Shahrabani <sh.yaron@...5...>:
Why change? Usage of Launchpad's Bazaar can extend our current working environment and allow us to work on the files online and get suggestion from Launchpad as well as working directly on the PO file, Bazaar can be updated the same way SVN does plus adding the online editing feature, I can't see what's wrong with that, those who would like to work in the old-fashioned way can keep on doing it but those who prefer moving on to launchpad can choose to do so... Am I right?
Yes, you are almost right.
But there will be no "old-fashioned" way if translations "moved" to LP (as proposed).
Please understand me. I do not want to wait 5 or 11 hours to download translation. I want to see who and how changed the translation (it is impossible at the current LP). I do not want to translate 1 KiB message again and again just because someone changed just one letter in it. I want to use glossary of the translation. If the translation permission will be "Open", I do not want to ask David Planella to find the way to roll back the translations made by some guy who think that Russian words sound better in Ukrainian translation.
Extend our current working environment? Please clarify. How the use of some CVS can extend the environment?
Suggestions from LP? Virtaal 0.5 can query all FOSS translations in OpenTran and any translations archive that you pointed. It also can Google-translate the phrase without tags. What is the profit of LP?
Well, certainly LP has advantages. Many people can take part in translation. But what prevent Ubuntu users from translation now? At least Ukrainian translation is on the LP but nobody wants to translate the last message in it (translated in upstream). If Ubuntu users want to translate Inkscape, then nobody can prevent them to translate it, I think (I am not using Ubuntu).
Moreover, Rosetta claims not-imported (hosted) translations to be BSD-licensed. All Inkscape translations are marked by:
# This file is distributed under the same license as the Inkscape package.
Please tell me what of the following sentences holds true:
1) Inkscape will be licensed under BSD. 2) All translations will be relicensed under BSD not asking what their authors think.
You think I am joking? Well, try me.
Fully commercial tool (now in testing purposes "free") that compiled FOSS translation memories (even GPLed) and try to sell them proclaiming that:
collecting Content from Crowdin.net as part of a database or other project; framing or otherwise incorporating Crowdin.net, or any portion of Crowdin.net, as part of another website or service; accessing Crowdin.net by any other way than through interfaces provided by Crowdin;
is prohibited. Sic! (Now they removed their TM at my demand.) I think the next generation of such "tools" will be with Rosetta BSD translations embedded (Yes, it is legal, ladies and gentlemen!).
And again, to have up-to-date template in LP, someone have to create this template. I think it will be one of the developers. So where is the benefit for the developers? They do it now, they have to do it in LP...
If the abstraction layer for translation is needed, why not to use Transifex or Narro? They allow all the things (including RSS feeds) that LP does not.
Hi, my 2 cents: if we can maintain our current workflow and choose to ignore or accept Rosetta contributions I'm OK with it. The problem with Rosetta is that people contribute and then ask for explanations on why their translation wasn't merged in the final version, and then you (as "main" or "official" translator) have to tell them their translation is crap. People do not usually take that well ;-)
Cheers,
2009/12/5 Yaron Shahrabani <sh.yaron@...5...>
Why change? Usage of Launchpad's Bazaar can extend our current working environment and allow us to work on the files online and get suggestion from Launchpad as well as working directly on the PO file, Bazaar can be updated the same way SVN does plus adding the online editing feature, I can't see what's wrong with that, those who would like to work in the old-fashioned way can keep on doing it but those who prefer moving on to launchpad can choose to do so... Am I right? Yaron Shahrabani - CTO "The Campus" Web: http://www.hacampus.org.il/ Israeli Applicable Studies Institute 200 Hativat Yiftah St., Karmiel, Israel Phone Number: +972 (4) 9988508
On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Luca Bruno <gnug.torte@...20...> wrote:
Yuri Chornoivan scrisse:
Personally I do not like this idea. Online translations are slow and inefficient with LP. Some of Rosetta "benefits" mentioned are hilarious (have you ever seen offline translation tool without spellchecking and TM these days?). Rosetta does not hightlight diffs in messages (as Lokalize and Virtaal), does not support fuzzy messages, has slow procedure of offline translations download.
Been there, used that, not fond of it too. My opinion is almost the same as Yuri's one, only adding that the current process seems to be working well enough not to force us to change it right now. The only bonus point I can see there is a bigger base of translators for not-so-widespread languages, but I'm much more worried about how it would negatively impact on the overall style, correctness and coherence (yes, already had bad experiences for these ones as well).
Cheers, Luca
-- .''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Luca Bruno (kaeso) : :' : The Universal O.S. | lucab (AT) debian.org `. `'` | GPG Key ID: 3BFB9FB3 `- http://www.debian.org | Debian GNU/Linux Developer
Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev _______________________________________________ Inkscape-translator mailing list Inkscape-translator@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-translator
Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev _______________________________________________ Inkscape-translator mailing list Inkscape-translator@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-translator
look at this in order to understand my disappointment with Rosetta: http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=248127&cid=19816985
Thanks, I'll pass the feedback along that there does not appear to be interest in this service.
On Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 12:14:03PM -0800, Joshua A. Andler wrote:
Hey Translators!
Following is a message that was sent to Bryce regarding translations. Given that I don't do any translating, I don't feel it appropriate to chime in other than saying that it sounds like it would be beneficial to our translators. Would you all be interested in giving it a shot?
Cheers, Josh
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Hi Bryce,
Seeing that now Inkscape has migrated to Bazaar, I was wondering if they could also benefit from another of the advantages of using Launchpad: Translations.
The current workflow for submitting translations in Inkscape (download PO file from the repo, translate it offline, submit it as a bug in LP and let the developers commit it) would greatly be improved for both translators and maintainers:
* Translators: they could use the web UI to translate, not having to worry about browsing through repositories, downloading PO files and keeping track of when their translations are committed (they'd be used straight away, transparently). They'd then be able to use all the cool Rosetta features: global translation suggestions (i.e. point and click translation), spell checking from the browser, translation sharing (sharing between series means that they no longer will have to fix mistakes in all branches: they'll do it in one and changes instantly propagate to all shared ones), online translating with a clean interface, etc. For those still wanting to use the old workflow and translate offline, Rosetta is flexible enough in the sense that it allows downloading the PO files, translate offline and upload the finished translation. * Maintainers: choosing automatic imports and exports of translations from bzr branches, they will no longer have to worry about translations. They'll only have to update the POT template before release and announce the string freeze as usual, commit it and it will be updated in Launchpad exposing the new strings. With automatic exports translations will be committed daily to a branch of their choice. Additionally, the work that is currently going on in automatically regenerating POT templates means that in the future they won't even have to worry about that.Using all these features is only a few clicks away, and I'd feel happy for both translators and the Inkscape maintainers if this move were also considered. I'd also be willing to give a hand with setting it up and advice if they decided to go ahead with it and need help.
The basic steps would be:
* Enabling automatic translation imports from a bzr branch at https://translations.launchpad.net/inkscape/trunk/+translations-settings * Keeping the (already generated) POT template under version control, that is committing it to the bzr branch * Choosing a permissions policy for translations * Enabling translation sharing * Enabling automatic translation exports at https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/inkscape/trunk/+translations-settingsFor more information:
* Importing translations: https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/ImportingTemplates and http://blog.launchpad.net/translations/screencast-importing-translation-templates-from-a-bazaar-branch * Choosing a permission policy: https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/PermissionPolicies * Translation sharing: http://blog.launchpad.net/translations/screencast-sharing-translations-between-releases-of-the-same-project * Exporting translations: https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/Exports and http://blog.launchpad.net/translations/screencast-exporting-translations-to-a-bazaar-branchDo you think they'd be interested? If so, who should we talk to?
Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev _______________________________________________ Inkscape-translator mailing list Inkscape-translator@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-translator
Thanks, I'll pass the feedback along that there does not appear to be interest in this service.
It only is interesting because it simplifies the way of sending translations. For that you could use Transifex. If you want to use online translation maybe you will be more interested on Pootle, or even Narro.
In the galician translation team we have some experiences involving some people (people that hate our language) which with these extremely easy tool changed the names of the developers (in the credits) to Harry Potter characters.
participants (9)
-
Bryce Harrington -
Felipe Sanches -
Joshua A. Andler -
Leandro Regueiro -
Luca Bruno -
Lucas Vieites -
Nicolas Dufour -
Yaron Shahrabani -
Yuri Chornoivan