On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 1:36 AM, Steve Litt <slitt@...2357...> wrote:
On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 23:21:14 +0100 C R <cajhne@...155...> wrote:
Nobody in this thread called anything about Inkscape "bloat", nor said that code related to what they don't use is "bloat". Go back and check the archives. I brought up "bloat" with respect to Firefox.
*sigh* Which was your reply to Donn's comparison of firefox to Inkscape as another example of a program that was good at a lot of different things. Maybe it was not your intention to say Inkscape's new features will lead to Inkscape being bloatware, but it certainly came off that way.
Look back through the archive, and see the context in which I used the word "bloat".
I did.. and I just told you what the context was too... I give up! :)
But now that you mention it, I'd be surprised if adding everything suggested, quickly and at once, would not add complexity, leading to behavior most folks associate with "bloat".
This is where you are assuming that the wishlist was asked to be added "all at once". It's like saying the ocean can't be sailed "all at once". You're right of course, but no one was saying that. :)
"Some." Which ones? Heck, I might agree if it weren't presented as a laundry list.
Again, this is one user's wish-list. It was given just as examples. I don't know why you're still trying to argue over it. It IS a laundry list, given just for the sake of examples of stuff that (might) not be able to be implemented with the current SVG standard. You seem to be the only one taking it as a "doo all this at once" sort of deal.
It *is* helpful, given the manner and lack of prioritization the wishlist was presented. If an attempt was made to implement the whole thing, the Inkscape program would likely suffer badly.
Devs do the prioritisation. Why should users have to prioritise what the devs understand far better on a code level? You are wanting/expecting too much from a user wishlist.
Where? Seeing such a roadmap would be most informative.
Google-foo failing you today? ;) Here's some help: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=inkscape+roadmap
Then there may be good news. I'm not a C++ guy, but I just downloaded *snip*
Great, I recommend to talk with the devs on IRC if you'd like to help. Then you can understand the big picture better. Ranting at a user when they are asking questions because you assume the user wishlist is somehow going to be taken as gospel, and implemented all at once... is silly, but also unhelpful. Calling it "crap" and "a horrible idea" isn't very pleasant, and doesn't make anyone more inclined to agree with your points. :)
You may also want to take a look at our COC : https://inkscape.org/en/community/coc/ It contains useful advice about responding to user requests, and ideas.
User 1: "Cool ideas, but we probably shouldn't try to implement this all at once." User 2: "It's just a list of modifications as an example, that may be outside the SVG scope." User 1: "Ah, nevermind then. Some of those things sound pretty cool." User 2: "Thanks! I'll leave it to the devs to figure out what should be priority."
That's how that part of the conversation should have gone. See the complete difference in tone? Quite a bit more efficient too. :)
That's exactly what this thread is about: some users have it in their minds that everything must be somehow crammed into an SVG, and viewable in browser.
That's sure my definition of Inkscape, and Inkscape would be much less valuable to me otherwise.
This is already not the case. Sorry to disappoint. :)
Well, it's not going to happen. Inkscape will always be able to save/export to SVG1 and SVG2 as a delivery format, and read those formats back in for use in other projects.
If those conversions are round trip and pass a diff test on SVG files that have gone several round trips through them, I'll worry less about SVG not being the native format. Otherwise, it's a big worry.
Of course it would. :) So again, no need to worry. You would only have to worry if you used a non-svg1 feature in your svg1. Inkscape would happily convert it to svg1 for you, but when you read it back in (of course) inkscape is only going to be able to show you the svg1 converted stuff. It can't do otherwise because user construction data is lost. This is why it's useful to have a construction format separate from the delivery format (and why almost all pro graphics programs do).
Not at all. It was defined sanely in a few .h files, I assume implemented sanely in files that could use mesh gradients, and a mesh gradient could be made to gracefully degrade by changing any fill properties using the mesh to something more appropriate.
Possible. The issue is that the standard is not agreed upon yet, and likely will not be because of the lost interest in making svg better by all browsers. Now, if you could save a mesh gradient to svg1 for example, you would use things like control points during the conversion, so when you read it back in, it's a mess.
Except Inkscape IS a complex program.
It's big and does a lot, but I wouldn't call it complex. From the half hour I've spent looking at the source, it's a very sane and simple way of implementing something so powerful.
Yep. I think you can also expect that the awesome minds who made the current incarnation will continue to make it clean and logical in the same way as before.
You're saying everything that can not be done in SVG1 should be excluded. Everything else is "bloat", right? Frankly, I don't know what you're trying to say at this point. :)
After looking at the program, I think there are ways you guys could start implementing SVG2 features, **one at a time, with heavy testing**. I could help to some degree, and could write documentation.
Help is always welcome! Thanks for the offer, and I hope our discussions lead to your involvement with the project. :)
-C
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