We've turned off logging on the Jabber channel, at Ishmal's request. He felt it would give a better sense of privacy for discussions if there were no logs. The logs up until Oct 30 will be kept.
We have also added a robots.txt file to prevent google searching/caching of the old logs.
Bryce
Quoting Bryce Harrington <bryce@...983...>:
We've turned off logging on the Jabber channel, at Ishmal's request. He felt it would give a better sense of privacy for discussions if there were no logs. The logs up until Oct 30 will be kept.
We have also added a robots.txt file to prevent google searching/caching of the old logs.
Hmm, I always found the logs to be a valuable resource; particularly being searchable via google.
IMO, the Jabber channel is not the place for really private discussion.
-mental
mental@...32... wrote:
Quoting Bryce Harrington <bryce@...983...>:
We've turned off logging on the Jabber channel, at Ishmal's request. He felt it would give a better sense of privacy for discussions if there were no logs. The logs up until Oct 30 will be kept.
We have also added a robots.txt file to prevent google searching/caching of the old logs.
Hmm, I always found the logs to be a valuable resource; particularly being searchable via google.
IMO, the Jabber channel is not the place for really private discussion.
I agree that it's not the place for really private discussion, but there are some things that get logged that are still of a "less than want to be googlable" nature. I also agree that the logs can be valuable. What if we have them logged and internally searchable, but only accessible to devs?
-Josh
Quoting "Joshua A. Andler" <joshua@...233...>:
I agree that it's not the place for really private discussion, but there are some things that get logged that are still of a "less than want to be googlable" nature.
I can sympathize, as I've definitely made a few regrettable comments over the years which are in the logs. However, it's a price I'm willing to pay for the sake of public accountability in Inkscape's development process.
I also agree that the logs can be valuable. What if we have them logged and internally searchable, but only accessible to devs?
How do we define "devs"?
-mental
On Wed, Nov 02, 2005 at 01:22:26PM -0500, mental@...32... wrote:
Quoting "Joshua A. Andler" <joshua@...233...>:
I agree that it's not the place for really private discussion, but there are some things that get logged that are still of a "less than want to be googlable" nature.
I can sympathize, as I've definitely made a few regrettable comments over the years which are in the logs. However, it's a price I'm willing to pay for the sake of public accountability in Inkscape's development process.
That's pretty much my feelings too. You can make regrettable comments on the mailing list as well, which is archived and searchable too.
Oh, and for the record, if someone says something that really *does* need to be removed (such as a password or other personal info), the admins do have the ability to edit the logs. (Same with the mailing list.)
Bryce
On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 mental@...32... wrote:
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 13:22:26 -0500 From: mental@...32... Reply-To: inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net To: Joshua A. Andler <joshua@...233...> Cc: Bryce Harrington <bryce@...983...>, inkscape-devel@...84..., inkscape-user@...84... Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] Re: [Inkscape-devel] Jabber logging
Quoting "Joshua A. Andler" <joshua@...233...>:
I agree that it's not the place for really private discussion, but there are some things that get logged that are still of a "less than want to be googlable" nature.
I can sympathize, as I've definitely made a few regrettable comments over the years which are in the logs. However, it's a price I'm willing to pay for the sake of public accountability in Inkscape's development process.
I also agree that the logs can be valuable. What if we have them logged and internally searchable, but only accessible to devs?
How do we define "devs"?
Any registered user should be able to see what information is being held on them (and have an opportunity to make sure it is correct and maybe have their information removed). Plenty of places require users to be logged in to read mailing list archives, it is not an unreasonable requirement. No need to make elitist developer only information, all stakeholders should be able to see what is going on.
I think the bigger problem is making sure important issues are kept on the record and compiled into useful knowledge rather than logging absolutely all traffic and having mountains of raw data obscuring what is actually imprtant. Quality not quantity.
The idea of only keeping the logs for a limited time (as was suggested on the developer list) sounds helpful, and six months gives more than long enough for anyone who is genuinely interested to do something useful with it.
- Alan H.
Alan Horkan wrote:
I agree that it's not the place for really private discussion, but there are some things that get logged that are still of a "less than want to be googlable" nature.
Logs should inspire to think before writing! Oooops :)
We all make mistakes, that's not a problem, as it's human. What becomes a problem, is when people don't admit and stand up to their mistakes, nor show willingness to learn.
If you fear your words could backfire, and you have a problem with that, then just don't say anything. Forcing such a policy, because someone is a little bit vain, surely can't be seen as in the spirit of "openness".
On Wed, Nov 02, 2005 at 11:04:08AM -0700, Joshua A. Andler wrote:
mental@...32... wrote:
Quoting Bryce Harrington <bryce@...983...>:
We've turned off logging on the Jabber channel, at Ishmal's request. He felt it would give a better sense of privacy for discussions if there were no logs. The logs up until Oct 30 will be kept.
We have also added a robots.txt file to prevent google searching/caching of the old logs.
Hmm, I always found the logs to be a valuable resource; particularly being searchable via google.
IMO, the Jabber channel is not the place for really private discussion.
I agree that it's not the place for really private discussion, but there are some things that get logged that are still of a "less than want to be googlable" nature. I also agree that the logs can be valuable. What if we have them logged and internally searchable, but only accessible to devs?
Yeah I'm with you guys, I was a bit disappointed to have to turn them off, since I've also found them handy for catching up on discussions, or searching for past discussions where useful info or decisions were made. (Actually I'm a bit surprised - I had gotten the feeling that most people disliked having the channel logged and that I was in the minority, but it looks like the reverse could be true...)
The issue as I understand it was strictly a privacy one. I guess the idea being that if someone can google your name and find something you said 2 years ago, it could be taken badly or something. The complaint is that this stifles developer discussion on the channel, since you have no idea who might be "looking over your shoulder".
I'd love to see us find a better compromise solution than the current one, so am glad to see this getting discussed in depth. Hopefully Bob can chime in with thoughts on his position as well.
Bryce
I agree that it's not the place for really private discussion, but there are some things that get logged that are still of a "less than want to be googlable" nature.
This appears to be the main argument. The solution, if one distrusts spiders' use of robots.txt, would be to put the logs where no spider can go. Admins will know how to do that.
But if this doesn't suffice, then I have no idea where the argument is because the act of anonymously taking part in IRC is certainly the same as making a log, and some lawyers might even argue, a public log. So the only solution then would be an invited (or named) conference.
I see no meaningful solution between the above two.
Regards, ralf
On Wed, Nov 02, 2005 at 12:53:26PM -0500, mental@...32... wrote:
Quoting Bryce Harrington <bryce@...983...>:
We've turned off logging on the Jabber channel, at Ishmal's request. He felt it would give a better sense of privacy for discussions if there were no logs. The logs up until Oct 30 will be kept.
How about running some perl on top of the logs that would delete the nicks?
Karol
On 11/2/05, mental@...32... <mental@...32...> wrote:
Hmm, I always found the logs to be a valuable resource; particularly being searchable via google.
IMO, the Jabber channel is not the place for really private discussion.
Agreed. I think we should revert that, and maybe create a "secret" channel for those who need it instead.
-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org
participants (8)
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unknown＠example.com -
Alan Horkan -
Bryce Harrington -
bulia byak -
Jason M Roehrig -
Joshua A. Andler -
Karol Krenski -
Ralf Stephan