Hi Friends, Here's the setup. Snap the center of one object of a group (of 2 or more objects) to the center of a rectangle.
If you use the option "Snap an item's rotation center", it won't work. Inkscape wants to snap the center of the group to the center of the rectangle. But if you use the option "Snap center of objects", it works like a dream.
I've always assumed that the relatively new (well, new-er, anyway) "Snap center of objects" was meant for those unusual cases where the center of an object and the rotation center of an object are not the same spot. But this behavior implies that perhaps "Snap center of objects" has a different purpose (than what I thought).
Questions:
1 -- Is there a bug involved in the above scenario? 2 -- Exactly what is the purpose for "Snap center of objects" compared to "Snap an item's rotation center"? 3 -- Could the tootip text (for one or both options) be improved, to better represent how they work?
I'm glad to memorialize whatever appropriate request is revealed about this, in a bug report. I'm just not sure exactly which part needs improvement or might be a bug (the behavior or the button names/tooltips).
(This was tested with Inkscape 0.92.3 on Windows 7 Pro. Also I had all other snap options disabled, except for the snap center options, during testing.)
Thank you very much, brynn
Hello Brynn,
On 11/06/2018 01:40 AM, brynn wrote:
Hi Friends, Here's the setup. Snap the center of one object of a group (of 2 or more objects) to the center of a rectangle.
If you use the option "Snap an item's rotation center", it won't work. Inkscape wants to snap the center of the group to the center of the rectangle.
I think this work as intended, as far as I can tell. It can be confusing though. Inkscape tries to snap the ROTATION center of the group to the ROTATION center of the rectangle. This rotation center of the group however does not coincide with the center of the object, so snapping likely occurs on a different position than you might have expected.
Questions:
1 -- Is there a bug involved in the above scenario?
I think it works as it should.
2 -- Exactly what is the purpose for "Snap center of objects" compared to "Snap an item's rotation center"?
When creating technical drawings, it can be very useful to rotate one object around some point on another object, or around the intersection of two guide lines, or whatever. In that case, the rotation center of the object is moved (snapped) to that other point, and hence it is located far away from the center of the object itself. To still allow snapping to the center of the object, one cannot use the rotation center anymore, as this is located far away. In such a situation one can use snapping to the center of the object, instead of snapping to the rotation center.
3 -- Could the tootip text (for one or both options) be improved, to better represent how they work?
I'm guessing that the main problem is the subtle difference between the "rotation center" and the "object center". Maybe it would be good to rename the "rotation center" to "rotation origin"? If we remove the "center" part of "rotation center", then it's no longer implicitly in the center of the object. Even better would be "transformation origin", as it is also used for skewing. But this might be too technical, I don't know. Anyway, it would have to be changed in more places than only in the tooltip, likely.
Best regards,
Diederik
Mmh, I somehow didn't get Brynn's email.
The question was:
why are the rotation centers of the other objects inside the group not available as snap targets, but only the group as a whole? Is this intentional, or would it be possible to add them?
Maren
Am 08.11.18 um 21:37 schrieb Diederik van Lierop:
Hello Brynn,
On 11/06/2018 01:40 AM, brynn wrote:
Hi Friends, Here's the setup. Snap the center of one object of a group (of 2 or more objects) to the center of a rectangle.
If you use the option "Snap an item's rotation center", it won't work. Inkscape wants to snap the center of the group to the center of the rectangle.
I think this work as intended, as far as I can tell. It can be confusing though. Inkscape tries to snap the ROTATION center of the group to the ROTATION center of the rectangle. This rotation center of the group however does not coincide with the center of the object, so snapping likely occurs on a different position than you might have expected.
Questions:
1 -- Is there a bug involved in the above scenario?
I think it works as it should.
2 -- Exactly what is the purpose for "Snap center of objects" compared to "Snap an item's rotation center"?
When creating technical drawings, it can be very useful to rotate one object around some point on another object, or around the intersection of two guide lines, or whatever. In that case, the rotation center of the object is moved (snapped) to that other point, and hence it is located far away from the center of the object itself. To still allow snapping to the center of the object, one cannot use the rotation center anymore, as this is located far away. In such a situation one can use snapping to the center of the object, instead of snapping to the rotation center.
3 -- Could the tootip text (for one or both options) be improved, to better represent how they work?
I'm guessing that the main problem is the subtle difference between the "rotation center" and the "object center". Maybe it would be good to rename the "rotation center" to "rotation origin"? If we remove the "center" part of "rotation center", then it's no longer implicitly in the center of the object. Even better would be "transformation origin", as it is also used for skewing. But this might be too technical, I don't know. Anyway, it would have to be changed in more places than only in the tooltip, likely.
Best regards,
Diederik
Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
On 11/08/2018 11:31 PM, Maren Hachmann wrote:
Mmh, I somehow didn't get Brynn's email.
The question was:
why are the rotation centers of the other objects inside the group not available as snap targets, but only the group as a whole?
That's probably because when transforming the group, only the rotation center of the group as a whole is relevant. The rotation center of the individual objects is not being used.
For the object centers the opposite holds, in general. The center of the group is often not really well defined, whereas the center of the individual objects could still be of interest to snap to.
Is this intentional, or would it be possible to add them?
Yes, this was somewhat intentional. But there are no really strong arguments for it, nor against it. And yes, it would be possible to add them.
Diederik
Ooohh, so snap to center of object is meant to be used when the rotation center has been moved? Hhmm....
"rotation origin" would be an improvement - not sure about solution, but definite improvement
For snap to center of object, could tooltip be "snap to center of object if rotation origin has been moved" ? It's a bit long, but much less confusing.
I don't suppose Inkscape can identify when the rotation center has been moved, and then fallback to snap to center? Too much ai?
But as Maren has clarified, is the fact that you can't snap to the center of objects in a group, using snap to rotation center, a bug?
I also just now discovered that you can only snap to the center of a text object using snap to rotation center. Snap to object will not snap to the center of text. Or the center of imported raster image either. Moving the rotation center has no effect. It still won't snap.
Should I make a bug report?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Diederik van Lierop Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2018 1:37 PM To: Inkscape User Community ; brynn Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] questions about snapping centers
Hello Brynn,
On 11/06/2018 01:40 AM, brynn wrote:
Hi Friends, Here's the setup. Snap the center of one object of a group (of 2 or more objects) to the center of a rectangle.
If you use the option "Snap an item's rotation center", it won't work.Inkscape wants to snap the center of the group to the center of the rectangle.
I think this work as intended, as far as I can tell. It can be confusing though. Inkscape tries to snap the ROTATION center of the group to the ROTATION center of the rectangle. This rotation center of the group however does not coincide with the center of the object, so snapping likely occurs on a different position than you might have expected.
Questions:1 -- Is there a bug involved in the above scenario?
I think it works as it should.
2 -- Exactly what is the purpose for "Snap center of objects" compared to "Snap an item's rotation center"?
When creating technical drawings, it can be very useful to rotate one object around some point on another object, or around the intersection of two guide lines, or whatever. In that case, the rotation center of the object is moved (snapped) to that other point, and hence it is located far away from the center of the object itself. To still allow snapping to the center of the object, one cannot use the rotation center anymore, as this is located far away. In such a situation one can use snapping to the center of the object, instead of snapping to the rotation center.
3 -- Could the tootip text (for one or both options) be improved, to better represent how they work?
I'm guessing that the main problem is the subtle difference between the "rotation center" and the "object center". Maybe it would be good to rename the "rotation center" to "rotation origin"? If we remove the "center" part of "rotation center", then it's no longer implicitly in the center of the object. Even better would be "transformation origin", as it is also used for skewing. But this might be too technical, I don't know. Anyway, it would have to be changed in more places than only in the tooltip, likely.
Best regards,
Diederik
On 11/13/2018 08:40 PM, brynn wrote:
Ooohh, so snap to center of object is meant to be used when the rotation center has been moved? Hhmm....
You might be right that this is the only use case. The real problem here is that the center of the object is not like the center of mass (which it should be), but merely the center of the bounding box. Because of this, it coincides with the default center of rotation.
"rotation origin" would be an improvement - not sure about solution, but definite improvement
For snap to center of object, could tooltip be "snap to center of object if rotation origin has been moved" ? It's a bit long, but much less confusing.
That would be too long for a tooltip, and equally confusing because of that. I also see some difficulties arising in translation to some languages. Multi-line tooltips should be avoided.
I don't suppose Inkscape can identify when the rotation center has been moved, and then fallback to snap to center? Too much ai?
This would be easy to implement, but I'm not sure if this helps in making Inkscape more accessible. It could end up being rather annoying if it's not clear to the user what is going on under the hood.
But as Maren has clarified, is the fact that you can't snap to the center of objects in a group, using snap to rotation center, a bug?
It was intended to be like this, but it might not have been the best solution. You could file a feature request for this though, requesting that also the rotation centers of the individual items in a group are snapped to.
I also just now discovered that you can only snap to the center of a text object using snap to rotation center. Snap to object will not snap to the center of text. Or the center of imported raster image either. Moving the rotation center has no effect. It still won't snap.
Should I make a bug report?
Yes, go ahead! That are bugs indeed, good catch!
Best regards,
Diederik
For snap to center of object, could tooltip be "snap to center of object if rotation origin has been moved" ? It's a bit long, but much less confusing.
That would be too long for a tooltip, and equally confusing because of that. I also see some difficulties arising in translation to some languages. Multi-line tooltips should be avoided.
Yeah, I thought that might be the case. There must be some way to make this more clear.... Well, maybe changing rotation center to rotation origin will be enough. At least then "center" won't be used twice, and hopefully be less confusing.
I'll put it in the same feature request that you mentioned, just to make sure it doesn't slip through the cracks. And I'll make the bug report about the other 2 things.
Thanks for explaining everything :-)
brynn
PS - https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1803911 https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1803913
-----Original Message----- From: Diederik van Lierop Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 2:45 PM To: brynn ; Inkscape User Community Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] questions about snapping centers
On 11/13/2018 08:40 PM, brynn wrote:
Ooohh, so snap to center of object is meant to be used when the rotation center has been moved? Hhmm....
You might be right that this is the only use case. The real problem here is that the center of the object is not like the center of mass (which it should be), but merely the center of the bounding box. Because of this, it coincides with the default center of rotation.
"rotation origin" would be an improvement - not sure about solution, but definite improvement
For snap to center of object, could tooltip be "snap to center of object if rotation origin has been moved" ? It's a bit long, but much less confusing.
That would be too long for a tooltip, and equally confusing because of that. I also see some difficulties arising in translation to some languages. Multi-line tooltips should be avoided.
I don't suppose Inkscape can identify when the rotation center has been moved, and then fallback to snap to center? Too much ai?
This would be easy to implement, but I'm not sure if this helps in making Inkscape more accessible. It could end up being rather annoying if it's not clear to the user what is going on under the hood.
But as Maren has clarified, is the fact that you can't snap to the center of objects in a group, using snap to rotation center, a bug?
It was intended to be like this, but it might not have been the best solution. You could file a feature request for this though, requesting that also the rotation centers of the individual items in a group are snapped to.
I also just now discovered that you can only snap to the center of a text object using snap to rotation center. Snap to object will not snap to the center of text. Or the center of imported raster image either. Moving the rotation center has no effect. It still won't snap.
Should I make a bug report?
Yes, go ahead! That are bugs indeed, good catch!
Best regards,
Diederik
With CAD software the user as asked to specify a rotation center point after object(s). Is this not possible with Inkscape?
On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 8:53 PM brynn <brynn@...3089...> wrote:
For snap to center of object, could tooltip be "snap to center of
object if
rotation origin has been moved" ? It's a bit long, but much less
confusing.
That would be too long for a tooltip, and equally confusing because of
that.
I also see some difficulties arising in translation to some languages. Multi-line tooltips should be avoided.
Yeah, I thought that might be the case. There must be some way to make this more clear.... Well, maybe changing rotation center to rotation origin will be enough. At least then "center" won't be used twice, and hopefully be less confusing.
I'll put it in the same feature request that you mentioned, just to make sure it doesn't slip through the cracks. And I'll make the bug report about the other 2 things.
Thanks for explaining everything :-)
brynn
PS - https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1803911 https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1803913
-----Original Message----- From: Diederik van Lierop Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 2:45 PM To: brynn ; Inkscape User Community Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] questions about snapping centers
On 11/13/2018 08:40 PM, brynn wrote:
Ooohh, so snap to center of object is meant to be used when the rotation center has been moved? Hhmm....
You might be right that this is the only use case. The real problem here is that the center of the object is not like the center of mass (which it should be), but merely the center of the bounding box. Because of this, it coincides with the default center of rotation.
"rotation origin" would be an improvement - not sure about solution, but definite improvement
For snap to center of object, could tooltip be "snap to center of object
if
rotation origin has been moved" ? It's a bit long, but much less
confusing.
That would be too long for a tooltip, and equally confusing because of that. I also see some difficulties arising in translation to some languages. Multi-line tooltips should be avoided.
I don't suppose Inkscape can identify when the rotation center has been moved, and then fallback to snap to center? Too much ai?
This would be easy to implement, but I'm not sure if this helps in making Inkscape more accessible. It could end up being rather annoying if it's not clear to the user what is going on under the hood.
But as Maren has clarified, is the fact that you can't snap to the
center of
objects in a group, using snap to rotation center, a bug?
It was intended to be like this, but it might not have been the best solution. You could file a feature request for this though, requesting that also the rotation centers of the individual items in a group are snapped to.
I also just now discovered that you can only snap to the center of a
text
object using snap to rotation center. Snap to object will not snap to
the
center of text. Or the center of imported raster image either. Moving
the
rotation center has no effect. It still won't snap.
Should I make a bug report?
Yes, go ahead! That are bugs indeed, good catch!
Best regards,
Diederik
Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
If I understand correctly, you want to change the rotation center of the object, right?
You can do this in this way: 1. select the object (in select mode, F1). You can see the handles that allow you to stretch it 2. click again the object and the rotation handles will appear 3. You can see in the middle of the object a little cross ("+"). That is the rotation center; you can click on it and move it wherever you like.
Hope this helps -- Riccardo Bernardini Tel : +39-0432-55-8271 skype : bernardini.riccardo LinkedIn : https://www.linkedin.com/in/riccardobernardini
________________________________________ Da: PipingDesignCentral <pipingdesigner@...155...> Inviato: lunedì 19 novembre 2018 11:25 A: Inkscape User Community Oggetto: Re: [Inkscape-user] questions about snapping centers
With CAD software the user as asked to specify a rotation center point after object(s). Is this not possible with Inkscape?
On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 8:53 PM brynn <brynn@...3089...mailto:brynn@...3147...9...> wrote:
For snap to center of object, could tooltip be "snap to center of object if rotation origin has been moved" ? It's a bit long, but much less confusing.
That would be too long for a tooltip, and equally confusing because of that. I also see some difficulties arising in translation to some languages. Multi-line tooltips should be avoided.
Yeah, I thought that might be the case. There must be some way to make this more clear.... Well, maybe changing rotation center to rotation origin will be enough. At least then "center" won't be used twice, and hopefully be less confusing.
I'll put it in the same feature request that you mentioned, just to make sure it doesn't slip through the cracks. And I'll make the bug report about the other 2 things.
Thanks for explaining everything :-)
brynn
PS - https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1803911 https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1803913
-----Original Message----- From: Diederik van Lierop Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 2:45 PM To: brynn ; Inkscape User Community Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] questions about snapping centers
On 11/13/2018 08:40 PM, brynn wrote:
Ooohh, so snap to center of object is meant to be used when the rotation center has been moved? Hhmm....
You might be right that this is the only use case. The real problem here is that the center of the object is not like the center of mass (which it should be), but merely the center of the bounding box. Because of this, it coincides with the default center of rotation.
"rotation origin" would be an improvement - not sure about solution, but definite improvement
For snap to center of object, could tooltip be "snap to center of object if rotation origin has been moved" ? It's a bit long, but much less confusing.
That would be too long for a tooltip, and equally confusing because of that. I also see some difficulties arising in translation to some languages. Multi-line tooltips should be avoided.
I don't suppose Inkscape can identify when the rotation center has been moved, and then fallback to snap to center? Too much ai?
This would be easy to implement, but I'm not sure if this helps in making Inkscape more accessible. It could end up being rather annoying if it's not clear to the user what is going on under the hood.
But as Maren has clarified, is the fact that you can't snap to the center of objects in a group, using snap to rotation center, a bug?
It was intended to be like this, but it might not have been the best solution. You could file a feature request for this though, requesting that also the rotation centers of the individual items in a group are snapped to.
I also just now discovered that you can only snap to the center of a text object using snap to rotation center. Snap to object will not snap to the center of text. Or the center of imported raster image either. Moving the rotation center has no effect. It still won't snap.
Should I make a bug report?
Yes, go ahead! That are bugs indeed, good catch!
Best regards,
Diederik
_______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.netmailto:Inkscape-user@...2326...net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
participants (5)
-
brynn -
Diederik van Lierop -
Maren Hachmann -
PipingDesignCentral -
Riccardo Bernardini