Scematics with Inkscape Was: An Inkscape comic!
Recently someone suggested I try using Kicad for electronic scematics. I thought it worth putting my initial thoughts back onto the list.
#############################################################
Hi,
Thanks for this information. I have had a quick look at it and it's quite good but seems to have the same sort of problems most other systems I've tried - just *not* intuitive, and difficult to manipulate.
As far as I know, there are no electonics CAD systems that will allow a simple drag&drop of a component/item from a window in a library to the work area, and this one of the most obvious things to do.
Another common problem is the difficulty making 'net' connections between lines, and actually being able to see that they are there.
With Inkscape I can do a fairly quick cut&paste of a object (component) from another window that contains my 'library'. I can see *exactly* what it is I'm pasting and have full control of positioning, rotation etc.
Not having any net-list feature is actually an advantage over one that doesn't always work correctly!
The only downside is that I don't have automated schematic-PCB transfer, but that is not a major problem as most of my work is either hand wired panels or one-off strip-board designs.
Hi Abrolag,
Out of curiousity, could you post an example of your inkscape-created electronics schematics?
Thanks, Bryce
On Sun, Jan 29, 2006 at 05:38:22PM +0000, Abrolag wrote:
Recently someone suggested I try using Kicad for electronic scematics. I thought it worth putting my initial thoughts back onto the list.
#############################################################
Hi,
Thanks for this information. I have had a quick look at it and it's quite good but seems to have the same sort of problems most other systems I've tried - just *not* intuitive, and difficult to manipulate.
As far as I know, there are no electonics CAD systems that will allow a simple drag&drop of a component/item from a window in a library to the work area, and this one of the most obvious things to do.
Another common problem is the difficulty making 'net' connections between lines, and actually being able to see that they are there.
With Inkscape I can do a fairly quick cut&paste of a object (component) from another window that contains my 'library'. I can see *exactly* what it is I'm pasting and have full control of positioning, rotation etc.
Not having any net-list feature is actually an advantage over one that doesn't always work correctly!
The only downside is that I don't have automated schematic-PCB transfer, but that is not a major problem as most of my work is either hand wired panels or one-off strip-board designs.
-- No Sig
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&da... _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Abrolag <abrolag@...16...> wrote in news:20060129173822.7b920c97@...21...:
Recently someone suggested I try using Kicad for electronic scematics. I thought it worth putting my initial thoughts back onto the list.
#############################################################
Hi,
Thanks for this information. I have had a quick look at it and it's quite good but seems to have the same sort of problems most other systems I've tried - just *not* intuitive, and difficult to manipulate.
As far as I know, there are no electonics CAD systems that will allow a simple drag&drop of a component/item from a window in a library to the work area, and this one of the most obvious things to do.
Tinycad can do the simple drag & drop of components you are looking for.
See:
http://tinycad.sourceforge.net/
--
Bill Peel
Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University's email disclaimer available on its website: http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 20:37:56 -0800 Bryce Harrington <bryce@...983...> wrote:
Hi Abrolag,
Out of curiousity, could you post an example of your inkscape-created electronics schematics?
Thanks, Bryce
Hmmm. I have to be a bit careful here as all the stuff I'm producing these days is for my employer, so he has the copyright. I will see if he will agree to me putting up incomplete or unidentifiable drawings.
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:00:19 +0000 (UTC) Bill Peel <w.peel@...212...> wrote:
Tinycad can do the simple drag & drop of components you are looking for.
See:
Thanks I will take a look at this as soon as I have time.
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:55:28 +0000 Abrolag <abrolag@...16...> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:00:19 +0000 (UTC) Bill Peel <w.peel@...212...> wrote:
Tinycad can do the simple drag & drop of components you are looking for.
See:
Thanks I will take a look at this as soon as I have time.
Unfortunately this is a Windows program so is no use to me :(
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:54:32 +0000 Abrolag <abrolag@...16...> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 20:37:56 -0800 Bryce Harrington <bryce@...983...> wrote:
Hi Abrolag,
Out of curiousity, could you post an example of your inkscape-created electronics schematics?
Thanks, Bryce
Hmmm. I have to be a bit careful here as all the stuff I'm producing these days is for my employer, so he has the copyright. I will see if he will agree to me putting up incomplete or unidentifiable drawings.
OK, I have permission to put up part of one project. Should I just send an email to the list with the drawings as ordinary attachments?
On Tue, Mar 07, 2006 at 06:59:44PM +0000, Abrolag wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:54:32 +0000 Abrolag <abrolag@...16...> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 20:37:56 -0800 Bryce Harrington <bryce@...983...> wrote:
Hi Abrolag,
Out of curiousity, could you post an example of your inkscape-created electronics schematics?
Thanks, Bryce
Hmmm. I have to be a bit careful here as all the stuff I'm producing these days is for my employer, so he has the copyright. I will see if he will agree to me putting up incomplete or unidentifiable drawings.
OK, I have permission to put up part of one project. Should I just send an email to the list with the drawings as ordinary attachments?
If you can post them to a website, that'd be even better. There's a gallery area on the Inkscape Wiki where you can link to them, too.
Bryce
On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:55:28 -0600 Terry Hancock <hancock@...1624...> wrote:
On Tuesday 07 March 2006 12:59 pm, Abrolag wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:54:32 +0000 Abrolag <abrolag@...16...> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 20:37:56 -0800 Bryce Harrington <bryce@...983...> wrote:
Out of curiousity, could you post an example of your inkscape-created electronics schematics?
Hmmm. I have to be a bit careful here as all the stuff I'm producing these days is for my employer, so he has the copyright. I will see if he will agree to me putting up incomplete or unidentifiable drawings.
OK, I have permission to put up part of one project. Should I just send an email to the list with the drawings as ordinary attachments?
Interesting. Are you just *drawing* schematics with Inkscape, or do you have a means to capture netlist data from them?
I ask, because xcircuit can do the latter, but it does have a pretty uncomfortable GUI. I have a project in which I plan to customize the netlisting software in xcircuit, but if I found a way to use an easier tool, that could be a big improvement. ;-)
Cheers, Terry
-- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com
I'm just drawing them. It's mostly panel wiring or stripboarded one-offs, so the need for netlists doesn't really apply. However, I must admit it would be nice to be able to export component lists directly into OpenOffice.
I've yet to find a comfortable GUI for PCB design software :(
On Tuesday 07 March 2006 12:59 pm, Abrolag wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:54:32 +0000 Abrolag <abrolag@...16...> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 20:37:56 -0800 Bryce Harrington <bryce@...983...> wrote:
Out of curiousity, could you post an example of your inkscape-created electronics schematics?
Hmmm. I have to be a bit careful here as all the stuff I'm producing these days is for my employer, so he has the copyright. I will see if he will agree to me putting up incomplete or unidentifiable drawings.
OK, I have permission to put up part of one project. Should I just send an email to the list with the drawings as ordinary attachments?
Interesting. Are you just *drawing* schematics with Inkscape, or do you have a means to capture netlist data from them?
I ask, because xcircuit can do the latter, but it does have a pretty uncomfortable GUI. I have a project in which I plan to customize the netlisting software in xcircuit, but if I found a way to use an easier tool, that could be a big improvement. ;-)
Cheers, Terry
-- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:53:10 +0100, Abrolag <abrolag@...16...> wrote:
I'm just drawing them. It's mostly panel wiring or stripboarded one-offs, so the need for netlists doesn't really apply. However, I must admit it would be nice to be able to export component lists directly into OpenOffice.
I've yet to find a comfortable GUI for PCB design software :(
If I were you I'd use eagle from http://www.cadsoft.de. There's a free version available for both Linux and Windows. It's not GNU though.
Of course like most specialized software whose evolution started before GUIs were common the user interface is a bit non-intuitive at first.
--Daniel
On Wednesday 08 March 2006 06:47 am, Daniel Haude wrote:
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:53:10 +0100, Abrolag <abrolag@...16...> wrote:
I'm just drawing them. It's mostly panel wiring or stripboarded one-offs, so the need for netlists doesn't really apply. However, I must admit it would be nice to be able to export component lists directly into OpenOffice.
I've yet to find a comfortable GUI for PCB design software :(
If I were you I'd use eagle from http://www.cadsoft.de. There's a free version available for both Linux and Windows. It's not GNU though.
Eagle is *non-free*. xcircuit, however, is free (GPL), and works.
Of course like most specialized software whose evolution started before GUIs were common the user interface is a bit non-intuitive at first.
Same for xcircuit. My problem with it is not that the GUI is intrinsically bad, but that it is very inconsistent with other apps (and keyboard-based).
In fact, I personally have little problem using it, but I don't think I'm likely to get much help on the project if xcircuit is the only available tool. For one thing, I'm not laying out schematics: I found a way to use it to rapid prototype interactive fiction game room maps. The problem of connecting doors between rooms is essentially isomorphic to connecting electronic components, and the netlister in xcircuit can be customized to write an XML file defining the room layout, which I can then suck into a Python program and auto-generate the data structure representing the rooms. That makes xcircuit into a CASE tool for creating IF game levels.
Of course, you have to go back and put items into the right places, etc, but it's nice to have a graphical map-building tool, and xcircuit can be made to do it.
But the GUI is not very intuitive. So, if somebody figures out a clever way to port xcircuit-like netlisting ability into Inkscape, I'm interested in that. I didn't figure that you were doing that, but hey, it never hurts to ask, right? ;-)
Cheers, Terry
-- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com
Terry Hancock <hancock@...1624...> writes:
Eagle is *non-free*. xcircuit, however, is free (GPL), and works.
This is getting off-topic, but do you know about http://geda.seul.org/?
Cheers, Colin
On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 13:47:21 +0100 "Daniel Haude" <dunno@...649...> wrote:
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:53:10 +0100, Abrolag <abrolag@...16...> wrote:
I'm just drawing them. It's mostly panel wiring or stripboarded one-offs, so the need for netlists doesn't really apply. However, I must admit it would be nice to be able to export component lists directly into OpenOffice.
I've yet to find a comfortable GUI for PCB design software :(
If I were you I'd use eagle from http://www.cadsoft.de. There's a free version available for both Linux and Windows. It's not GNU though.
Of course like most specialized software whose evolution started before GUIs were common the user interface is a bit non-intuitive at first.
--Daniel
I've tried eagle. Doesn't suit me I'm afraid. I can never be sure that connections are being made (a problem with lots of packages) and hate the predefined routing behaviour.
On Wednesday 08 March 2006 02:13 pm, Colin Marquardt wrote:
Terry Hancock <hancock@...1624...> writes:
Eagle is *non-free*. xcircuit, however, is free (GPL),
and works.
This is getting off-topic, but do you know about http://geda.seul.org/?
But that's a PCB and chip design tool, isn't it? I'm not aware that it has much in the way of schematic capture (and for my application, obviously having a lot of extra electronic design tools in it is a minus, not a plus -- though I might be interested in it for an actual electronics project. ;-) ).
This is off-topic though.
Terry
-- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com
Terry Hancock <hancock@...1624...> writes:
On Wednesday 08 March 2006 02:13 pm, Colin Marquardt wrote:
Terry Hancock <hancock@...1624...> writes:
Eagle is *non-free*. xcircuit, however, is free (GPL),
and works.
This is getting off-topic, but do you know about http://geda.seul.org/?
But that's a PCB and chip design tool, isn't it? I'm not aware that it has much in the way of schematic capture (and for my application, obviously having a lot of extra electronic design tools in it is a minus, not a plus -- though I might be interested in it for an actual electronics project. ;-) ).
Well, I think it's a roughly "connected" set of design tools, among them gschem, a schematic capture tool: http://geda.seul.org/tools/gschem/index.html Development doesn't seem very active though.
Cheers, Colin
On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:32:14 +0100 Colin Marquardt <colin@...161...> wrote:
<serrrr....nip!>
Getting back to my original post...
If Bryce? ... I think it was, or anyone else wants to see the drawings I've done, should I simply add them as attachments to a posting on the list or what?
On Thu, Mar 09, 2006 at 07:10:35PM +0000, Abrolag wrote:
On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:32:14 +0100 Colin Marquardt <colin@...161...> wrote:
<serrrr....nip!>
Getting back to my original post...
If Bryce? ... I think it was, or anyone else wants to see the drawings I've done, should I simply add them as attachments to a posting on the list or what?
Sure that'd be fine, or upload them to a website and post a link if you're concerned about file size.
Bryce
From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Mar 20 23:24:35 2006
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:24:26 +0100 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@...1701...> Message-Id: <200603210724.k2L7OQaZ010401@...1701...> To: inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="k2L7OQaZ010401.1142925866/smtp9.clb.oleane.net" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. Report problems to http://sf.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=1&atid=200001 Subject: [Inkscape-user] Returned mail: see transcript for details Sender: inkscape-user-admin@lists.sourceforge.net Errors-To: inkscape-user-admin@lists.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9-sf.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net List-Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user, mailto:inkscape-user-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe List-Id: Inkscape User Community <inkscape-user.lists.sourceforge.net> List-Post: mailto:inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net List-Help: mailto:inkscape-user-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help List-Subscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user, mailto:inkscape-user-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe List-Archive: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum=inkscape-user
This is a MIME-encapsulated message
--k2L7OQaZ010401.1142925866/smtp9.clb.oleane.net Content-Type: text/plain
The original message was received at Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:24:23 +0100 from localhost [127.0.0.1]
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- <292@...1684...> (reason: 550 <292@...1684...>: User unknown in local recipient table)
----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to [83.206.74.81]:
DATA
<<< 550 <292@...1684...>: User unknown in local recipient table 550 5.1.1 <292@...1684...>... User unknown <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients
--k2L7OQaZ010401.1142925866/smtp9.clb.oleane.net Content-Type: message/delivery-status
Reporting-MTA: dns; smtp9.clb.oleane.net Received-From-MTA: DNS; localhost Arrival-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:24:23 +0100
Final-Recipient: RFC822; 292@...1684... Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; [83.206.74.81] Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 <292@...1684...>: User unknown in local recipient table Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:24:25 +0100
--k2L7OQaZ010401.1142925866/smtp9.clb.oleane.net Content-Type: message/rfc822
Return-Path: inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net Received: from smtp9.clb.oleane.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp9.clb.oleane.net (antivirus) with ESMTP id k2L7ONaZ010373 for <292@...1684...>; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:24:23 +0100 Received: from smtp9.clb.oleane.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp9.clb.oleane.net (antispam) with ESMTP id k2L7ONNS010356 for <292@...1684...>; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:24:23 +0100 Received: from ascom.fr (ALyon-152-1-51-232.w86-193.abo.wanadoo.fr [86.193.66.232]) by smtp9.clb.oleane.net with ESMTP id k2L7OBbI009889 for <292@...1684...>; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:24:15 +0100 Message-Id: <200603210724.k2L7OBbI009889@...1701...> From: inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net To: 292@...1684... Subject: [SPAM] Mail Delivery (failure 292@...1684...) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:25:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0CA80.6B015D10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Level: xxxxxxx
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0CA80.6B015D10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
------------------ Virus Warning Message (on smtp9)
Found virus HTML_Netsky.P in file email-body The uncleanable file is deleted.
Found virus WORM_NETSKY.P in file message.scr The uncleanable file is deleted.
---------------------------------------------------------
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0CA80.6B015D10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001C_01C0CA80.6B015D10"
------=_NextPart_001_001C_01C0CA80.6B015D10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
------=_NextPart_001_001C_01C0CA80.6B015D10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
------------------ Virus Warning Message (on smtp9)
email-body is removed from here because it contains a virus.
--------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_001_001C_01C0CA80.6B015D10-- ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0CA80.6B015D10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
------------------ Virus Warning Message (on smtp9)
message.scr is removed from here because it contains a virus.
--------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0CA80.6B015D10--
--k2L7OQaZ010401.1142925866/smtp9.clb.oleane.net--
On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 11:21:45 -0800 Bryce Harrington <bryce@...983...> wrote:
On Tue, Mar 07, 2006 at 06:59:44PM +0000, Abrolag wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:54:32 +0000 Abrolag <abrolag@...16...> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 20:37:56 -0800 Bryce Harrington <bryce@...983...> wrote:
Hi Abrolag,
Out of curiousity, could you post an example of your inkscape-created electronics schematics?
Thanks, Bryce
Hmmm. I have to be a bit careful here as all the stuff I'm producing these days is for my employer, so he has the copyright. I will see if he will agree to me putting up incomplete or unidentifiable drawings.
OK, I have permission to put up part of one project. Should I just send an email to the list with the drawings as ordinary attachments?
If you can post them to a website, that'd be even better. There's a gallery area on the Inkscape Wiki where you can link to them, too.
Bryce
OK.
I've put them on www.folderol.ukfsn.org/inkscape.shtml
I haven't linked them to the Wiki as I don't intend to leave them there permanently.
One minor problem I've had with such drawings is snapping to grid with small or irregular shaped objects. It seems that Inkscape will snap to left, right, top, bottom or centre. My way around this, which is most obviously shown in Speed_07.svg is to create an invisible box (zero width path, no path or fill colour) that fits exactly to the grid size I am using, then group this with the 'component' it surrounds. This means I can quickly and accurately position it.
On Sun, Mar 12, 2006 at 07:20:39PM +0000, Abrolag wrote:
On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 11:21:45 -0800 Bryce Harrington <bryce@...983...> wrote:
If you can post them to a website, that'd be even better. There's a gallery area on the Inkscape Wiki where you can link to them, too.
I've put them on www.folderol.ukfsn.org/inkscape.shtml
Nice! Reminds me of my drafting days. :-)
I haven't linked them to the Wiki as I don't intend to leave them there permanently.
One minor problem I've had with such drawings is snapping to grid with small or irregular shaped objects. It seems that Inkscape will snap to left, right, top, bottom or centre. My way around this, which is most obviously shown in Speed_07.svg is to create an invisible box (zero width path, no path or fill colour) that fits exactly to the grid size I am using, then group this with the 'component' it surrounds. This means I can quickly and accurately position it.
Ah, interesting trick, I never thought of that. Yeah, I run into snapping irregularities a lot. I usually find that by turning off 'snap to bounding boxes' and turn on 'snap to point', it gives me pretty close to what I want. Of course, that doesn't work for non-path shapes (ellipses and rects), and it doesn't make snap-to-center as easy as would be desired.
Bryce
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:39:31 -0800 Bryce Harrington <bryce@...983...> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 09, 2006 at 07:10:35PM +0000, Abrolag wrote:
On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:32:14 +0100 Colin Marquardt <colin@...161...> wrote:
<serrrr....nip!>
Getting back to my original post...
If Bryce? ... I think it was, or anyone else wants to see the drawings I've done, should I simply add them as attachments to a posting on the list or what?
Sure that'd be fine, or upload them to a website and post a link if you're concerned about file size.
Bryce
Erm. I think you're getting a bit out of sync. I did that 10 days ago!
participants (6)
-
Abrolag -
Bill Peel -
Bryce Harrington -
Colin Marquardt -
Daniel Haude -
Terry Hancock