8:31 a.m.
Hi Friends,
As I mentioned a couple of months ago, I've lost my patience over this
whole "new forum" issue.
I've been given the impression that we're (as a community) going back
into limbo with the forum situation, and holding our breath that there are no
more black eyes resulting from the lack of (effective) management of
InkscapeForum.com.
I don't understand why. Why risk yet another black eye? Do most people
just not realize everything that's happened due to the lack of effective
management, over the years? Or everything that could still happen? Shall I
elaborate? Or maybe most people just don't care, since they don't use forums
anyway?
What yet needs to be done to make the new forum live and close the old
one? To me, it has all the features it needs. As far as I know, the only thing
that's still needed is load testing (lots of users at the same time).
If we can start it within 6 months, I'd like to propose that we make a
concrete plan (as much as possible, given that this community doesn't function
well with deadlines). Of course I'd be glad to help create such a plan.
If it requires more than 6 months more work, I would propose installing
a php forum (SMF or phpBB) and start it right away. Then some day, if the
Django-integrated forum is ever ready, we can switch over to it.
Thanks for any clarity on this issue.
All best,
brynn
8:41 a.m.
Correct if wrong, but I got the impression that it's still being worked on.
I'm liaising with Doctormo, and Jabier to try and integrate the visual
stylings of the new forum with our current website.
If it's true that we're going back into a state of limbo do tell me so I
don't do extra work for nothing! :)
Thanks.
-C
On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 11:32 PM brynn <brynn@...3089...> wrote:
Hi Friends,
As I mentioned a couple of months ago, I've lost my patience over
this
whole "new forum" issue.
I've been given the impression that we're (as a community) going
back
into limbo with the forum situation, and holding our breath that there are
no
more black eyes resulting from the lack of (effective) management of
InkscapeForum.com.
I don't understand why. Why risk yet another black eye? Do most
people
just not realize everything that's happened due to the lack of effective
management, over the years? Or everything that could still happen? Shall
I
elaborate? Or maybe most people just don't care, since they don't use
forums
anyway?
What yet needs to be done to make the new forum live and close the
old
one? To me, it has all the features it needs. As far as I know, the only
thing
that's still needed is load testing (lots of users at the same time).
If we can start it within 6 months, I'd like to propose that we
make a
concrete plan (as much as possible, given that this community doesn't
function
well with deadlines). Of course I'd be glad to help create such a plan.
If it requires more than 6 months more work, I would propose
installing
a php forum (SMF or phpBB) and start it right away. Then some day, if the
Django-integrated forum is ever ready, we can switch over to it.
Thanks for any clarity on this issue.
All best,
brynn
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-user mailing list
Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
10:15 a.m.
Hi Brynn,
Sorry if it seems like the website forum is in limbo, it's not. It's
very functional I think on the core and has a great number of the
functionalities asked for.
The questions now are so fold:
1. Do we have someone like yourself who is willing and able to doing
the management work to make the new forum work? We need people who are
committed being in the key seats to really get things moving.
2. The inkscape-web team is at your disposal. (or at the disposal of
the management of the forum). It will from time to time appear like I
get distracted easily like a dog chasing squirrels. And that appearance
is entirely true. Greater use of the forum, and direction by someone in
charge would greatly help keeping things focused and prioritising which
of the many small paper-cuts is the most important.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Fri, 2019-01-25 at 23:41 +0000, C R wrote:
Correct if wrong, but I got the impression that it's still being
worked on.
I'm liaising with Doctormo, and Jabier to try and integrate the
visual stylings of the new forum with our current website.
If it's true that we're going back into a state of limbo do tell me
so I don't do extra work for nothing! :)
4:02 p.m.
Oh yes, I realize the new forum is still being worked on. I didn't mean to
imply it wasn't. I just had the impression it had slowed down, and there was no
longer a priority to get it open.
I was told the plan was to let the old forum keep running as long as it will,
which to me, is the same limbo we've been in, for so long now. (And in my
opinion, not a good idea, for what I thought would be obvious reasons.)
I'm definitely commited, but since I don't have the development skills, I
don't
understand what work still needs to be done. So I think it would be helpful to
make a plan -- at least to have an outline of the next steps, so that everyone
is on the same page.
If the folks working on the development could say what still needs to be done, I
could write up tasks in a gitlab Issue (I'm not sure if there already is an
issue or not, but I'll look).
And there's another potential problem that needs to be addressed as well
(probably a few actually). It seems most of the membership of InkscapeForum is
not interested in the new forum. When I posted the message inviting them to
test it, there was little to no response. I didn't specifically address the
fact that the old forum would be closed, and they didn't seem to pick up on the
many hints. It sounds like they are expecting the old forum to stay open. We
haven't broached that subject of closing it yet, publicly (except for this
message - I'm not sure if any forum members subscribe to this list).
Plus, they somehow think I instigated the new forum, which renewed the same wild
assumptions they made when I opened Inkscape Community (that I wanted to take
over, or divide the forum, or steal members, or whatever nonsense they
imagined).
So when the time comes to open the new forum and close the old one, that word
will need to come probably from the board. In any case, I should probably no
longer be "the messenger" regarding the new forum.
If you need forum management, maybe we need to work up the forum rules or
guidelines (or whatever we call them)? And then we could go about setting up
admins and moderators. Is that the kind of management you mean?
I'm not sure how we could use the forum any further, at this point. It seems to
have been tested in every way I can think of, except for heavy traffic. I don't
think it should be opened until we're ready to close the old one, for several
reasons.
But if you could share your list of paper cuts which still need fixing, I could
help in prioritizing them. (Maren might help too??)
If we could find a way for the board to explain that the old forum is going to
be closed, the members might be more willing to test the new forum? Maybe
they'd be more willing to be on the new staff too?? Here's the forum thread
where I invited members to test the new forum:
http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=34311 So you can see how
they're resistant. I'm not sure how the best way to word it would be, but we
could discuss it in real time, at some point, probably better than in email.
All best,
brynn
-----Original Message-----
From: doctormo@...155...
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 6:15 PM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?
Hi Brynn,
Sorry if it seems like the website forum is in limbo, it's not. It's
very functional I think on the core and has a great number of the
functionalities asked for.
The questions now are so fold:
1. Do we have someone like yourself who is willing and able to doing
the management work to make the new forum work? We need people who are
committed being in the key seats to really get things moving.
2. The inkscape-web team is at your disposal. (or at the disposal of
the management of the forum). It will from time to time appear like I
get distracted easily like a dog chasing squirrels. And that appearance
is entirely true. Greater use of the forum, and direction by someone in
charge would greatly help keeping things focused and prioritising which
of the many small paper-cuts is the most important.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Fri, 2019-01-25 at 23:41 +0000, C R wrote:
Correct if wrong, but I got the impression that it's still being
worked on.
I'm liaising with Doctormo, and Jabier to try and integrate the
visual stylings of the new forum with our current website.
If it's true that we're going back into a state of limbo do tell me
so I don't do extra work for nothing! :)
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-user mailing list
Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
1:20 a.m.
Hi Brynn,
On the subject of development: It's not still in development, slowed or
stopped. It's waiting for management. Think of me as a resource to be
used to help get this project off the ground, not as a manager who is
driving it.
On membership: I wouldn't focus too much on the old forum, focus on
building a new forum with new members. We haven't done any marketing
for the new forum, haven't invited people from our other outreach
areas.
I don't know who told you we should keep the forum closed until the old
forum is dead. But that's a terrible strategy. The new forum is a solid
base, but what it needs is a fresh population, not resentful users from
previous forums.
But this is just my thoughts on membership. It's really up to the
management.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Sat, 2019-01-26 at 00:02 -0700, brynn wrote:
Oh yes, I realize the new forum is still being worked on. I
didn't
mean to
imply it wasn't. I just had the impression it had slowed down, and
there was no
longer a priority to get it open.
I was told the plan was to let the old forum keep running as long as
it will,
which to me, is the same limbo we've been in, for so long now. (And
in my
opinion, not a good idea, for what I thought would be obvious
reasons.)
I'm definitely commited, but since I don't have the development
skills, I don't
understand what work still needs to be done. So I think it would be
helpful to
make a plan -- at least to have an outline of the next steps, so that
everyone
is on the same page.
If the folks working on the development could say what still needs to
be done, I
could write up tasks in a gitlab Issue (I'm not sure if there already
is an
issue or not, but I'll look).
And there's another potential problem that needs to be addressed as
well
(probably a few actually). It seems most of the membership of
InkscapeForum is
not interested in the new forum. When I posted the message inviting
them to
test it, there was little to no response. I didn't specifically
address the
fact that the old forum would be closed, and they didn't seem to pick
up on the
many hints. It sounds like they are expecting the old forum to stay
open. We
haven't broached that subject of closing it yet, publicly (except for
this
message - I'm not sure if any forum members subscribe to this list).
Plus, they somehow think I instigated the new forum, which renewed
the same wild
assumptions they made when I opened Inkscape Community (that I wanted
to take
over, or divide the forum, or steal members, or whatever nonsense
they
imagined).
So when the time comes to open the new forum and close the old one,
that word
will need to come probably from the board. In any case, I should
probably no
longer be "the messenger" regarding the new forum.
If you need forum management, maybe we need to work up the forum
rules or
guidelines (or whatever we call them)? And then we could go about
setting up
admins and moderators. Is that the kind of management you mean?
I'm not sure how we could use the forum any further, at this
point. It seems to
have been tested in every way I can think of, except for heavy
traffic. I don't
think it should be opened until we're ready to close the old one, for
several
reasons.
But if you could share your list of paper cuts which still need
fixing, I could
help in prioritizing them. (Maren might help too??)
If we could find a way for the board to explain that the old forum is
going to
be closed, the members might be more willing to test the new
forum? Maybe
they'd be more willing to be on the new staff too?? Here's the forum
thread
where I invited members to test the new forum:
http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=34311 So you can
see how
they're resistant. I'm not sure how the best way to word it would
be, but we
could discuss it in real time, at some point, probably better than in
email.
All best,
brynn
-----Original Message-----
From: doctormo@...155...
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 6:15 PM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?
Hi Brynn,
Sorry if it seems like the website forum is in limbo, it's not. It's
very functional I think on the core and has a great number of the
functionalities asked for.
The questions now are so fold:
1. Do we have someone like yourself who is willing and able to doing
the management work to make the new forum work? We need people who
are
committed being in the key seats to really get things moving.
2. The inkscape-web team is at your disposal. (or at the disposal of
the management of the forum). It will from time to time appear like I
get distracted easily like a dog chasing squirrels. And that
appearance
is entirely true. Greater use of the forum, and direction by someone
in
charge would greatly help keeping things focused and prioritising
which
of the many small paper-cuts is the most important.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Fri, 2019-01-25 at 23:41 +0000, C R wrote:
> Correct if wrong, but I got the impression that it's still being
> worked on.
> I'm liaising with Doctormo, and Jabier to try and integrate the
> visual stylings of the new forum with our current website.
> If it's true that we're going back into a state of limbo do tell me
> so I don't do extra work for nothing! :)
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-user mailing list
Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-user mailing list
Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
8:56 a.m.
This echos my understanding. The new forum is supposed to attract a trickle
of new members, so that there is actually incentive to make the migration
for those in the old forum.
-C
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019, 16:20 <doctormo@...155... wrote:
Hi Brynn,
On the subject of development: It's not still in development, slowed or
stopped. It's waiting for management. Think of me as a resource to be
used to help get this project off the ground, not as a manager who is
driving it.
On membership: I wouldn't focus too much on the old forum, focus on
building a new forum with new members. We haven't done any marketing
for the new forum, haven't invited people from our other outreach
areas.
I don't know who told you we should keep the forum closed until the old
forum is dead. But that's a terrible strategy. The new forum is a solid
base, but what it needs is a fresh population, not resentful users from
previous forums.
But this is just my thoughts on membership. It's really up to the
management.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Sat, 2019-01-26 at 00:02 -0700, brynn wrote:
> Oh yes, I realize the new forum is still being worked on. I didn't
> mean to
> imply it wasn't. I just had the impression it had slowed down, and
> there was no
> longer a priority to get it open.
>
> I was told the plan was to let the old forum keep running as long as
> it will,
> which to me, is the same limbo we've been in, for so long now. (And
> in my
> opinion, not a good idea, for what I thought would be obvious
> reasons.)
>
> I'm definitely commited, but since I don't have the development
> skills, I don't
> understand what work still needs to be done. So I think it would be
> helpful to
> make a plan -- at least to have an outline of the next steps, so that
> everyone
> is on the same page.
>
> If the folks working on the development could say what still needs to
> be done, I
> could write up tasks in a gitlab Issue (I'm not sure if there already
> is an
> issue or not, but I'll look).
>
> And there's another potential problem that needs to be addressed as
> well
> (probably a few actually). It seems most of the membership of
> InkscapeForum is
> not interested in the new forum. When I posted the message inviting
> them to
> test it, there was little to no response. I didn't specifically
> address the
> fact that the old forum would be closed, and they didn't seem to pick
> up on the
> many hints. It sounds like they are expecting the old forum to stay
> open. We
> haven't broached that subject of closing it yet, publicly (except for
> this
> message - I'm not sure if any forum members subscribe to this list).
>
> Plus, they somehow think I instigated the new forum, which renewed
> the same wild
> assumptions they made when I opened Inkscape Community (that I wanted
> to take
> over, or divide the forum, or steal members, or whatever nonsense
> they
> imagined).
>
> So when the time comes to open the new forum and close the old one,
> that word
> will need to come probably from the board. In any case, I should
> probably no
> longer be "the messenger" regarding the new forum.
>
> If you need forum management, maybe we need to work up the forum
> rules or
> guidelines (or whatever we call them)? And then we could go about
> setting up
> admins and moderators. Is that the kind of management you mean?
>
> I'm not sure how we could use the forum any further, at this
> point. It seems to
> have been tested in every way I can think of, except for heavy
> traffic. I don't
> think it should be opened until we're ready to close the old one, for
> several
> reasons.
>
> But if you could share your list of paper cuts which still need
> fixing, I could
> help in prioritizing them. (Maren might help too??)
>
> If we could find a way for the board to explain that the old forum is
> going to
> be closed, the members might be more willing to test the new
> forum? Maybe
> they'd be more willing to be on the new staff too?? Here's the forum
> thread
> where I invited members to test the new forum:
> http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=34311 So you can
> see how
> they're resistant. I'm not sure how the best way to word it would
> be, but we
> could discuss it in real time, at some point, probably better than in
> email.
>
> All best,
> brynn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: doctormo@...155...
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 6:15 PM
> To: Inkscape User Community
> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?
>
> Hi Brynn,
>
> Sorry if it seems like the website forum is in limbo, it's not. It's
> very functional I think on the core and has a great number of the
> functionalities asked for.
>
> The questions now are so fold:
>
> 1. Do we have someone like yourself who is willing and able to doing
> the management work to make the new forum work? We need people who
> are
> committed being in the key seats to really get things moving.
>
> 2. The inkscape-web team is at your disposal. (or at the disposal of
> the management of the forum). It will from time to time appear like I
> get distracted easily like a dog chasing squirrels. And that
> appearance
> is entirely true. Greater use of the forum, and direction by someone
> in
> charge would greatly help keeping things focused and prioritising
> which
> of the many small paper-cuts is the most important.
>
> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>
> On Fri, 2019-01-25 at 23:41 +0000, C R wrote:
> > Correct if wrong, but I got the impression that it's still being
> > worked on.
> > I'm liaising with Doctormo, and Jabier to try and integrate the
> > visual stylings of the new forum with our current website.
> > If it's true that we're going back into a state of limbo do tell me
> > so I don't do extra work for nothing! :)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-user mailing list
> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-user mailing list
> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-user mailing list
Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
7:59 a.m.
Hi Martin,
They didn't say it was closed. They just said it wasn't ready yet, and
that there was more work to be done. And that InkscapeForum was to be left open
indefinitely. To me, that's back to limbo. There was no mention of management.
On the subject of development: It's not still in development,
slowed or
stopped. It's waiting for management. Think of me as a resource to be
used to help get this project off the ground, not as a manager who is
driving it.
Well, there are still some features, at least some that I requested,
still not there yet. And I think there are some others too, that you haven't
finished. Right? I know you said you had a personal list you were working
from, at one time. But it still might be nice to have that list public (or did
I just not find it yet?).
But it will never go anywhere as long as the old forum stays open.
Believe me, I've lived that scenario for the last 5 years! Certainly not if we
don't do any advertising or outreach about it. Plus, if the new one is open,
and all the others are still open, I can tell you that I, for one, will not be
visiting 4 forums every day. (I manage 2 myself - everyone else would have to
visit 3 forums every day.)
Now, if we're going to have an official opening for the new forum, and
do some outreach and advertising, (and put it in the main menu of the website),
I'll be glad to reorganize and divert traffic from Inkscape Community (and
Inkscape for Cutting Design), as I have always promised. But that still leaves
InkscapeForum open. And as long as it's open, those people who answer questions
there will not be helping in the new forum.
Oooohhhh....!! I think I just saw the light! One of the people who
should definitely, most definitely, receive an announcement about the opening of
a new official forum, would be the owners of the other forums. Possibly more
than one announcement might be needed. But that *could* work!
Shall I re-title this (or start a new thread), and move towards forming
the documentation and management for the new forum? Is anyone else on board?
(We could even invite the moderators of InkscapeForum if they want to be
involved, although most probably won't.)
All best,
brynn
-----Original Message-----
From: doctormo@...155...
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2019 9:20 AM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?
Hi Brynn,
On the subject of development: It's not still in development, slowed or
stopped. It's waiting for management. Think of me as a resource to be
used to help get this project off the ground, not as a manager who is
driving it.
On membership: I wouldn't focus too much on the old forum, focus on
building a new forum with new members. We haven't done any marketing
for the new forum, haven't invited people from our other outreach
areas.
I don't know who told you we should keep the forum closed until the old
forum is dead. But that's a terrible strategy. The new forum is a solid
base, but what it needs is a fresh population, not resentful users from
previous forums.
But this is just my thoughts on membership. It's really up to the
management.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Sat, 2019-01-26 at 00:02 -0700, brynn wrote:
Oh yes, I realize the new forum is still being worked on. I
didn't
mean to
imply it wasn't. I just had the impression it had slowed down, and
there was no
longer a priority to get it open.
I was told the plan was to let the old forum keep running as long as
it will,
which to me, is the same limbo we've been in, for so long now. (And
in my
opinion, not a good idea, for what I thought would be obvious
reasons.)
I'm definitely commited, but since I don't have the development
skills, I don't
understand what work still needs to be done. So I think it would be
helpful to
make a plan -- at least to have an outline of the next steps, so that
everyone
is on the same page.
If the folks working on the development could say what still needs to
be done, I
could write up tasks in a gitlab Issue (I'm not sure if there already
is an
issue or not, but I'll look).
And there's another potential problem that needs to be addressed as
well
(probably a few actually). It seems most of the membership of
InkscapeForum is
not interested in the new forum. When I posted the message inviting
them to
test it, there was little to no response. I didn't specifically
address the
fact that the old forum would be closed, and they didn't seem to pick
up on the
many hints. It sounds like they are expecting the old forum to stay
open. We
haven't broached that subject of closing it yet, publicly (except for
this
message - I'm not sure if any forum members subscribe to this list).
Plus, they somehow think I instigated the new forum, which renewed
the same wild
assumptions they made when I opened Inkscape Community (that I wanted
to take
over, or divide the forum, or steal members, or whatever nonsense
they
imagined).
So when the time comes to open the new forum and close the old one,
that word
will need to come probably from the board. In any case, I should
probably no
longer be "the messenger" regarding the new forum.
If you need forum management, maybe we need to work up the forum
rules or
guidelines (or whatever we call them)? And then we could go about
setting up
admins and moderators. Is that the kind of management you mean?
I'm not sure how we could use the forum any further, at this
point. It seems to
have been tested in every way I can think of, except for heavy
traffic. I don't
think it should be opened until we're ready to close the old one, for
several
reasons.
But if you could share your list of paper cuts which still need
fixing, I could
help in prioritizing them. (Maren might help too??)
If we could find a way for the board to explain that the old forum is
going to
be closed, the members might be more willing to test the new
forum? Maybe
they'd be more willing to be on the new staff too?? Here's the forum
thread
where I invited members to test the new forum:
http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=34311 So you can
see how
they're resistant. I'm not sure how the best way to word it would
be, but we
could discuss it in real time, at some point, probably better than in
email.
All best,
brynn
-----Original Message-----
From: doctormo@...155...
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 6:15 PM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?
Hi Brynn,
Sorry if it seems like the website forum is in limbo, it's not. It's
very functional I think on the core and has a great number of the
functionalities asked for.
The questions now are so fold:
1. Do we have someone like yourself who is willing and able to doing
the management work to make the new forum work? We need people who
are
committed being in the key seats to really get things moving.
2. The inkscape-web team is at your disposal. (or at the disposal of
the management of the forum). It will from time to time appear like I
get distracted easily like a dog chasing squirrels. And that
appearance
is entirely true. Greater use of the forum, and direction by someone
in
charge would greatly help keeping things focused and prioritising
which
of the many small paper-cuts is the most important.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Fri, 2019-01-25 at 23:41 +0000, C R wrote:
> Correct if wrong, but I got the impression that it's still being
> worked on.
> I'm liaising with Doctormo, and Jabier to try and integrate the
> visual stylings of the new forum with our current website.
> If it's true that we're going back into a state of limbo do tell me
> so I don't do extra work for nothing! :)
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2:38 p.m.
On Sun, 2019-01-27 at 15:59 -0700, brynn wrote:
They didn't say it was closed. They just said it
wasn't
ready yet, and that there was more work to be done. And that
InkscapeForum was to be left open indefinitely. To me, that's back
to limbo. There was no mention of management.
Ignore them. Whoever they are. We're crossing some wires and your
suggestions below about kicking off some new discussions is the right
direction.
still not there yet. And I think there are some others too, that
you
haven't finished. Right?
Not a perfect actor. But I don't want the forum to be shuttered waiting
for perfect. We have the issues list in GitLab which is the more
authoritative list, but it's always going to be the case that if you
were to remind me of an issue that was hitting users of the forum, I
could prioritise it better.
Shall I re-title this (or start a new thread), and move
towards forming
the documentation and management for the new forum? Is anyone else
on board?
(We could even invite the moderators of InkscapeForum if they want to
be involved, although most probably won't.)
Maybe we should have a vector's issue, we can talk about promoting the
forum and how to do that correctly.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
4:38 p.m.
Ok, I'll make a new issue under Vectors team, as best I can. And then others
can edit if there's a better way to format it or present it (I still get
confused with the GL editor and all the codes which I don't like having to look
up). (I'll reference this thread too, for completeness.)
Thanks for clearing up the situation. I really wasn't understanding the status
quo correctly, apparently. Maybe no one else really did either, at least not
fully.
All best,
brynn
-----Original Message-----
From: doctormo@...155...
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2019 10:38 PM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?
On Sun, 2019-01-27 at 15:59 -0700, brynn wrote:
They didn't say it was closed. They just said it
wasn't
ready yet, and that there was more work to be done. And that
InkscapeForum was to be left open indefinitely. To me, that's back
to limbo. There was no mention of management.
Ignore them. Whoever they are. We're crossing some wires and your
suggestions below about kicking off some new discussions is the right
direction.
still not there yet. And I think there are some others too, that
you
haven't finished. Right?
Not a perfect actor. But I don't want the forum to be shuttered waiting
for perfect. We have the issues list in GitLab which is the more
authoritative list, but it's always going to be the case that if you
were to remind me of an issue that was hitting users of the forum, I
could prioritise it better.
Shall I re-title this (or start a new thread), and move
towards forming
the documentation and management for the new forum? Is anyone else
on board?
(We could even invite the moderators of InkscapeForum if they want to
be involved, although most probably won't.)
Maybe we should have a vector's issue, we can talk about promoting the
forum and how to do that correctly.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
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6:43 p.m.
Hhmm, I'm composing the new Issue, and I tried using @all. It's giving me a
warning that I'm adding 45 people to the discussion. Should I not do that?
Isn't that the whole point for using @all ??
Thanks,
brynn
-----Original Message-----
From: brynn
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 12:38 AM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?
Ok, I'll make a new issue under Vectors team, as best I can. And then others
can edit if there's a better way to format it or present it (I still get
confused with the GL editor and all the codes which I don't like having to look
up). (I'll reference this thread too, for completeness.)
Thanks for clearing up the situation. I really wasn't understanding the status
quo correctly, apparently. Maybe no one else really did either, at least not
fully.
All best,
brynn
-----Original Message-----
From: doctormo@...155...
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2019 10:38 PM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?
On Sun, 2019-01-27 at 15:59 -0700, brynn wrote:
They didn't say it was closed. They just said it
wasn't
ready yet, and that there was more work to be done. And that
InkscapeForum was to be left open indefinitely. To me, that's back
to limbo. There was no mention of management.
Ignore them. Whoever they are. We're crossing some wires and your
suggestions below about kicking off some new discussions is the right
direction.
still not there yet. And I think there are some others too, that
you
haven't finished. Right?
Not a perfect actor. But I don't want the forum to be shuttered waiting
for perfect. We have the issues list in GitLab which is the more
authoritative list, but it's always going to be the case that if you
were to remind me of an issue that was hitting users of the forum, I
could prioritise it better.
Shall I re-title this (or start a new thread), and move
towards forming
the documentation and management for the new forum? Is anyone else
on board?
(We could even invite the moderators of InkscapeForum if they want to
be involved, although most probably won't.)
Maybe we should have a vector's issue, we can talk about promoting the
forum and how to do that correctly.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
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7:24 p.m.
On Mon, 2019-01-28 at 02:43 -0700, brynn wrote:
Hhmm, I'm composing the new Issue, and I tried using @all.
It's
giving me a warning that I'm adding 45 people to the discussion.
Should I not do that? Isn't that the whole point for using @all ??
On GitLab, I'm not sure, it's not a thing I've ever tried to use. You
can probably just add Ryan, me and yourself for the GitLab issue.
If you want to use @all in rocket chat, I think that's a better place
for @all to be used. (I think they're different)
Best Regards, Martin Owens
9:56 p.m.
use @inkscape/vectors instead, if you want to address all vectors.
(and yes, I'm also not going to visit yet another forum - there are 6
already on my list - I'm waiting for the main forum to close first. I
also don't think the of one on the website as a serious alternative to a
proper forum in its current state.)
Maren
Am 28.01.19 um 11:24 schrieb doctormo@...155...:
On Mon, 2019-01-28 at 02:43 -0700, brynn wrote:
> Hhmm, I'm composing the new Issue, and I tried using @all. It's
> giving me a warning that I'm adding 45 people to the discussion.
> Should I not do that? Isn't that the whole point for using @all ??
On GitLab, I'm not sure, it's not a thing I've ever tried to use. You
can probably just add Ryan, me and yourself for the GitLab issue.
If you want to use @all in rocket chat, I think that's a better place
for @all to be used. (I think they're different)
Best Regards, Martin Owens
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11:08 p.m.
as a very casual visitor to forums such as this, I have only one comment to
make:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle
The site, at a first glance, is over-designed, intimidating...
Alvin
--
Sent from: http://inkscape.13.x6.nabble.com/Inkscape-User-f2857977.html
10:45 a.m.
I'm not sure which forum you're referring to. But the new one has the fewest
features of all of them. It does currently have many boards which aren't being
used (and that gallery archive board which I still don't understand), but I
would not expect most of them to remain, once we have the staff set up to make
decisions.
brynn
-----Original Message-----
From: alvinpenner
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 7:08 AM
To: inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?
as a very casual visitor to forums such as this, I have only one comment to
make:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle
The site, at a first glance, is over-designed, intimidating...
Alvin
--
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1:36 p.m.
I was referring to https://inkscape.org/forums/ .
I saw a screen that looked like this: forums.png
<http://inkscape.13.x6.nabble.com/file/t148043/forums.png>
It had many more items than I had expected to see.
I spent a few minutes browsing the various items but was not able to figure
out what their purpose was.
Alvin
--
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2:09 p.m.
Hi Alvin,
Most of those are example forums. It's likely we'll have a much smaller
list, but they are a) to be decided and b) can be switched on and off
in the admin interface as needed.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Wed, 2019-01-30 at 21:36 -0700, alvinpenner wrote:
I was referring to https://inkscape.org/forums/ .
I saw a screen that looked like this: forums.png
<http://inkscape.13.x6.nabble.com/file/t148043/forums.png>
It had many more items than I had expected to see.
I spent a few minutes browsing the various items but was not able to
figure
out what their purpose was.
Alvin
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2:20 p.m.
Oh yeah, those won't be permanent. They're just examples. Really what you'll
see there, when the forum is ready to open, will be boards like you see on
either InkscapeForum.com index page, or Inkscape Community forum index page.
Plus, I've made a suggestion to re-do that front page, so that it looks more
like traditional forums. It hasn't been decided exactly what will happen, but
for sure, those boards will be more like in the other 2 forums.
brynn
-----Original Message-----
From: alvinpenner
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 9:36 PM
To: inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?
I was referring to https://inkscape.org/forums/ .
I saw a screen that looked like this: forums.png
<http://inkscape.13.x6.nabble.com/file/t148043/forums.png>
It had many more items than I had expected to see.
I spent a few minutes browsing the various items but was not able to figure
out what their purpose was.
Alvin
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7:20 p.m.
okay, thanks, that is good to know.
Alvin
--
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1:27 a.m.
It's inaccurate and unfair to characterize current inkscapeforum.com forum
members as resentful, just because they are reluctant to move to a new,
unproven forum. Although, they might easily become resentful if they are
whitewashed as malcontents for just being cautious.
Comments above in this discussion indicate that a phpbb forum is a viable
fallback... why not *start* with a working, familiar, platform that has
experienced worldwide users/moderators/developers? (A separate login from
inkscape.org has not been a problem at the inkscapeforum.com forum, so it
is a weak argument to say it is a significant obstacle for a new
forum.) If the project installed a phpbb forum structured in the same
manner & functionality as the current inkscapeforum.com, most active
members would be amenable to moving. I certainly would. (Additional
benefit would be the seamless integration of the old forum content, in the
unlikely event the databases are provided.) I don't see the overarching
need to reinvent the wheel.
Current active users are vital to the success of a new forum. They attract
new members by providing substantive contributions. Case in point, last
year there were over 1700 users on the inkscapeforum.com in a *single
day*... that's about as many users as inkscapecommunity.com has registered
in *five years*. I'm not saying the information at inkscapecommunity.com
is inferior, but rather imagine if it had attracted more of the active
group of users from inkscapeforum.com. As an active contributor of
inkscapeforum.com, I can attest to >2200 posts, local folders reflecting
assistance to >600 unique users, dropbox folders containing uploads of
gif, svg, screenshots, for about 300 unique users... And I'm a relative
lightweight compared to some other active users.
The active users are participating at high levels for the love of Inkscape
and its users. These are the anchors of the user community that attract and
support new users. It might be wise to listen to what they have to say...
not just in their comments, but in their reluctance to move away from what
is currently working.
TL;DR
Don't brand us as resentful just because we are comfortable staying with a
working platform. It's not resentment keeping active users at the old
forum, it's functionality. When the new forum works as well or better than
the current forum, active users like myself will be more open to moving.
Have a nice day.
TD
On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 5:21 AM alvinpenner <penner@...2467...> wrote:
okay, thanks, that is good to know.
Alvin
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Hi Martin,
They didn't say it was closed. They just said it wasn't ready yet,
and
that there was more work to be done. And that InkscapeForum was to be left
open
indefinitely. To me, that's back to limbo. There was no mention of
management.
On the subject of development: It's not still in development,
slowed or
stopped. It's waiting for management. Think of me as a resource to be
used to help get this project off the ground, not as a manager who is
driving it.
Well, there are still some features, at least some that I
requested,
still not there yet. And I think there are some others too, that you
haven't
finished. Right? I know you said you had a personal list you were working
from, at one time. But it still might be nice to have that list public (or
did
I just not find it yet?).
But it will never go anywhere as long as the old forum stays open.
Believe me, I've lived that scenario for the last 5 years! Certainly not
if we
don't do any advertising or outreach about it. Plus, if the new one is
open,
and all the others are still open, I can tell you that I, for one, will not
be
visiting 4 forums every day. (I manage 2 myself - everyone else would have
to
visit 3 forums every day.)
Now, if we're going to have an official opening for the new forum,
and
do some outreach and advertising, (and put it in the main menu of the
website),
I'll be glad to reorganize and divert traffic from Inkscape Community (and
Inkscape for Cutting Design), as I have always promised. But that still
leaves
InkscapeForum open. And as long as it's open, those people who answer
questions
there will not be helping in the new forum.
Oooohhhh....!! I think I just saw the light! One of the people
who
should definitely, most definitely, receive an announcement about the
opening of
a new official forum, would be the owners of the other forums. Possibly
more
than one announcement might be needed. But that *could* work!
Shall I re-title this (or start a new thread), and move towards
forming
the documentation and management for the new forum? Is anyone else on
board?
(We could even invite the moderators of InkscapeForum if they want to be
involved, although most probably won't.)
All best,
brynn
-----Original Message-----
From: doctormo@...155...
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2019 9:20 AM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?
Hi Brynn,
On the subject of development: It's not still in development, slowed or
stopped. It's waiting for management. Think of me as a resource to be
used to help get this project off the ground, not as a manager who is
driving it.
On membership: I wouldn't focus too much on the old forum, focus on
building a new forum with new members. We haven't done any marketing
for the new forum, haven't invited people from our other outreach
areas.
I don't know who told you we should keep the forum closed until the old
forum is dead. But that's a terrible strategy. The new forum is a solid
base, but what it needs is a fresh population, not resentful users from
previous forums.
But this is just my thoughts on membership. It's really up to the
management.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Sat, 2019-01-26 at 00:02 -0700, brynn wrote:
Oh yes, I realize the new forum is still being worked on. I
didn't
mean to
imply it wasn't. I just had the impression it had slowed down, and
there was no
longer a priority to get it open.
I was told the plan was to let the old forum keep running as long as
it will,
which to me, is the same limbo we've been in, for so long now. (And
in my
opinion, not a good idea, for what I thought would be obvious
reasons.)
I'm definitely commited, but since I don't have the development
skills, I don't
understand what work still needs to be done. So I think it would be
helpful to
make a plan -- at least to have an outline of the next steps, so that
everyone
is on the same page.
If the folks working on the development could say what still needs to
be done, I
could write up tasks in a gitlab Issue (I'm not sure if there already
is an
issue or not, but I'll look).
And there's another potential problem that needs to be addressed as
well
(probably a few actually). It seems most of the membership of
InkscapeForum is
not interested in the new forum. When I posted the message inviting
them to
test it, there was little to no response. I didn't specifically
address the
fact that the old forum would be closed, and they didn't seem to pick
up on the
many hints. It sounds like they are expecting the old forum to stay
open. We
haven't broached that subject of closing it yet, publicly (except for
this
message - I'm not sure if any forum members subscribe to this list).
Plus, they somehow think I instigated the new forum, which renewed
the same wild
assumptions they made when I opened Inkscape Community (that I wanted
to take
over, or divide the forum, or steal members, or whatever nonsense
they
imagined).
So when the time comes to open the new forum and close the old one,
that word
will need to come probably from the board. In any case, I should
probably no
longer be "the messenger" regarding the new forum.
If you need forum management, maybe we need to work up the forum
rules or
guidelines (or whatever we call them)? And then we could go about
setting up
admins and moderators. Is that the kind of management you mean?
I'm not sure how we could use the forum any further, at this
point. It seems to
have been tested in every way I can think of, except for heavy
traffic. I don't
think it should be opened until we're ready to close the old one, for
several
reasons.
But if you could share your list of paper cuts which still need
fixing, I could
help in prioritizing them. (Maren might help too??)
If we could find a way for the board to explain that the old forum is
going to
be closed, the members might be more willing to test the new
forum? Maybe
they'd be more willing to be on the new staff too?? Here's the forum
thread
where I invited members to test the new forum:
http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=34311 So you can
see how
they're resistant. I'm not sure how the best way to word it would
be, but we
could discuss it in real time, at some point, probably better than in
email.
All best,
brynn
-----Original Message-----
From: doctormo@...155...
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 6:15 PM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?
Hi Brynn,
Sorry if it seems like the website forum is in limbo, it's not. It's
very functional I think on the core and has a great number of the
functionalities asked for.
The questions now are so fold:
1. Do we have someone like yourself who is willing and able to doing
the management work to make the new forum work? We need people who
are
committed being in the key seats to really get things moving.
2. The inkscape-web team is at your disposal. (or at the disposal of
the management of the forum). It will from time to time appear like I
get distracted easily like a dog chasing squirrels. And that
appearance
is entirely true. Greater use of the forum, and direction by someone
in
charge would greatly help keeping things focused and prioritising
which
of the many small paper-cuts is the most important.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Fri, 2019-01-25 at 23:41 +0000, C R wrote:
> Correct if wrong, but I got the impression that it's still being
> worked on.
> I'm liaising with Doctormo, and Jabier to try and integrate the
> visual stylings of the new forum with our current website.
> If it's true that we're going back into a state of limbo do tell me
> so I don't do extra work for nothing! :)
7:16 a.m.
It's inaccurate and unfair to characterize current
inkscapeforum.com forum
members as resentful, just because they are reluctant to move to a new,
unproven forum. Although, they might easily become resentful if they are
whitewashed as malcontents for just being cautious.
We didn't characterize them as resentful. We said we want to prevent them from
becoming resentful. (At least I did, although I don't think it was in this
thread.) We certainly didn't characterize them as malcontents!
We're trying to find the best way to do this, but there's absolutely no way to
find a solution that's perfect for everyone. So we have to find the way that
satisfies as many people as possible. Individually, we will all get some things
that we want, and we will all, not get some things that we want.
I think our biggest obstacle is lack of involvement by the people whom we don't
want to become resentful. We have been trying.
I also think that a mature, fully featured forum software would be the best case
scenario. But working within a community, as I said in the forum thread, we
have to compromise. That's what it means to be part of a community, in my
experience.
If the project could find a qualified sysadmin, who could handle a php forum on
the server side, it might be a different story. (They also need to know
Ansible.) But as things are now, we don't have anyone who is well-versed with
php. To my understanding, that's why we're working towards the
Django-integrated solution. But I don't think finding a sysadmin is anywhere
near the top of the priority list right now (not now that the push towards
version 1.0 has started, and with 2 hackfests coming up).
Could we install a php forum anyway? Yes. Then what happens when the next PHP
upgrade comes along? Or some other changes on the server are needed, related to
php? The current web admin might not be able to handle it properly (in this
case probably not).
At least, that's how I understand the situation, given my not-so-tech-savvy
perspective.
In any case, I repeat. We are trying to find a way to do this, that works for
everyone as much as possible, and to prevent people from becoming resentful.
But it's a hard road to go, when most of those people don't want to participate.
We would love to hear from more InkscapeForum members!
All best,
brynn
PS - tl;dr
Case in point, last year there were over 1700 users on the
inkscapeforum.com
in a *single day*... that's about as many users as inkscapecommunity.com has
registered in *five years*.
That's not a fair comparison! First of all, you're comparing apples to oranges.
Second and most importantly, InkscapeForum.com has almost a complete lack of
spam control currently. (I mean programatically, not by moderation.) As far as
I know, all they have is a lame captcha, which bots can solve. ("are you a
bot?") Virtually everyone who visits can register.
"Users" is everyone who visits, it's not new members and not logged in
members.
It's visitors. After the last couple of years with little to no spam control
(programatically) the site has probably become a magnet for bots. A couple of
automated bots could easily rack up 1700 visits in a day!
If you compare how many register to how many actually post a message, that might
be an insightful comparison. At least it weeds out free floating spammers. And
Inkscape Community probably has at least an equal percentage, and probably
higher. Regardless of registration, I think we handle an equal number of new
messages, on average.
I'm not sure why you felt a need to say that. I've always avoided comparing the
forums. But I had to clear up the meaning of those stats. In the future, I
hope we can avoid comparing them, and try to work towards combining them into
one new forum, which is even better than the 2 current forums combined. That's
my goal, in any case.
brynn
PPS - If there are any further comparisons of the 2 forums, I won't be
responding. As I've said from the beginning, I want to see the 2 forums working
side by side to provide support for Inkscape and not competing. At least until
the new forum opens, when Inkscape Community will be drastically reorganized,
and traffic diverted to the new forum (as I have promised all along).
-----Original Message-----
From: Tyler Durden
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2019 9:27 AM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?
It's inaccurate and unfair to characterize current inkscapeforum.com forum
members as resentful, just because they are reluctant to move to a new, unproven
forum. Although, they might easily become resentful if they are whitewashed as
malcontents for just being cautious.
Comments above in this discussion indicate that a phpbb forum is a viable
fallback... why not *start* with a working, familiar, platform that has
experienced worldwide users/moderators/developers? (A separate login from
inkscape.org has not been a problem at the inkscapeforum.com forum, so it is a
weak argument to say it is a significant obstacle for a new forum.) If the
project installed a phpbb forum structured in the same manner & functionality as
the current inkscapeforum.com, most active members would be amenable to moving.
I certainly would. (Additional benefit would be the seamless integration of the
old forum content, in the unlikely event the databases are provided.) I don't
see the overarching need to reinvent the wheel.
Current active users are vital to the success of a new forum. They attract new
members by providing substantive contributions. Case in point, last year there
were over 1700 users on the inkscapeforum.com in a *single day*... that's about
as many users as inkscapecommunity.com has registered in *five years*. I'm not
saying the information at inkscapecommunity.com is inferior, but rather imagine
if it had attracted more of the active group of users from inkscapeforum.com.
As an active contributor of inkscapeforum.com, I can attest to >2200 posts,
local folders reflecting assistance to >600 unique users, dropbox folders
containing uploads of gif, svg, screenshots, for about 300 unique users... And
I'm a relative lightweight compared to some other active users.
The active users are participating at high levels for the love of Inkscape and
its users. These are the anchors of the user community that attract and support
new users. It might be wise to listen to what they have to say... not just in
their comments, but in their reluctance to move away from what is currently
working.
TL;DR
Don't brand us as resentful just because we are comfortable staying with a
working platform. It's not resentment keeping active users at the old forum,
it's functionality. When the new forum works as well or better than the current
forum, active users like myself will be more open to moving.
Have a nice day.
TD
8:19 a.m.
Thanks Tyler for the insightful position on the new forum and the users
of the old.
The Inkscape project itself (as a consensus) doesn't hold any
particular views on the old forum users or any of the community run
forums (there are many others). We have a desire to make sure that
there is an Inkscape forum we can point users to and this has common
cause with some risks to the old forum; we were brought fair evidence
that the infrastructure under inkscapeforum is at a small risk of being
turned off and a medium risk of under-maintenance leading to security
and other issues.
The new forum project isn't a replacement, because we don't intend to
change the DNS for the old forum even when the new one is up and
running. We'd probably only do that in the event the old forum
disappeared. Or if there was a reasonable amount of consensus from the
users of the old forum.
My own bias is that I'm a python programmer and the only long active
admin for the website. I made the new django forum. We get a couple of
things from using this: a. some integration b. CDN for all uploaded
media files c. Existing server infrastructure (search indexing, emails,
etc). What we don't have for a phpbb solution, is anyone to set it up,
anyone to run it and we have limited donated VPS services which this
would take up. I've invited people to lead a phpbb forum project
anyway, no one wanted to. So I spent time doing things that I could do
to help solve the problem.
Let me know if you have any questions about the forum. There may come a
day when users of the old forum need a new home and it'd be good if we
got some of the big stuff fixed at this early stage.
Thanks for you help and context.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Fri, 2019-02-01 at 11:27 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote:
Don't brand us as resentful just because we are comfortable
staying
with a working platform. It's not resentment keeping active users at
the old forum, it's functionality. When the new forum works as well
or better than the current forum, active users like myself will be
more open to moving.
11:17 p.m.
Thanks for the info. I guess I'll skip the @. I'm sure I had seen @all used on
gitlab before, but I'll just stick with plain English for now.
Maren, read my proposal when I post it in a few minutes. I think it should
work. And if we run into problems with the new forum, we can always switch over
to a php software later.
People seem to be avoiding closing of InkscapeForum. I think there would be
some way to do it without creating resentment. But I also think we can let
someone else do it. Oh wait, let me just post it now, and I'll put a link here.
https://gitlab.com/inkscape/vectors/general/issues/97
brynn
-----Original Message-----
From: Maren Hachmann
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 5:56 AM
To: inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?
use @inkscape/vectors instead, if you want to address all vectors.
(and yes, I'm also not going to visit yet another forum - there are 6
already on my list - I'm waiting for the main forum to close first. I
also don't think the of one on the website as a serious alternative to a
proper forum in its current state.)
Maren
Am 28.01.19 um 11:24 schrieb doctormo@...155...:
On Mon, 2019-01-28 at 02:43 -0700, brynn wrote:
> Hhmm, I'm composing the new Issue, and I tried using @all. It's
> giving me a warning that I'm adding 45 people to the discussion.
> Should I not do that? Isn't that the whole point for using @all ??
On GitLab, I'm not sure, it's not a thing I've ever tried to use. You
can probably just add Ryan, me and yourself for the GitLab issue.
If you want to use @all in rocket chat, I think that's a better place
for @all to be used. (I think they're different)
Best Regards, Martin Owens
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2:17 a.m.
On Mon, 2019-01-28 at 13:56 +0100, Maren Hachmann wrote:
I also don't think the of one on the website as a serious
alternative
to a proper forum in its current state.
Your loaded criticism is just wrong. The forum is serious, a fine
alternative and a proper forum. It's current state is good, but not
perfect.
I have checked it's design and functionality with multiple normal
people. None have had any issues. Remaining issues are so many levels
deep that I'm confident we'll be able to prioritise these paper-cuts
with more users using the site.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
12:01 p.m.
I think that comparing the new forum to other forum software, such as SMF or
phpBB - well, there's really no comparison. Those are fully featured forum
wares which have been developed over many, many years, and are quite
sophisticated. They provide every feature which anyone wanting to run a forum
might ever want or need. (with emphasis on "might ever")
But do we really need every feature? If we look the history of the old forum
and at only the features which members actually use, and depend on day to day,
the "new" forum has all those features. (as much as the 3 of us have been able
to remember). I don't think our community needs all of them - at least we never
have needed them yet.
I don't see any reason not to give the new forum a try. If after some time (5
days or 5 years), we realize there's a need for some new feature, and for some
reason it can't be added, all those sophisticated wares will still be available
for us. We can always switch over to one of them.
Well anyway, that's my perspective.
brynn
-----Original Message-----
From: doctormo@...155...
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 10:17 AM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?
On Mon, 2019-01-28 at 13:56 +0100, Maren Hachmann wrote:
I also don't think the of one on the website as a serious
alternative
to a proper forum in its current state.
Your loaded criticism is just wrong. The forum is serious, a fine
alternative and a proper forum. It's current state is good, but not
perfect.
I have checked it's design and functionality with multiple normal
people. None have had any issues. Remaining issues are so many levels
deep that I'm confident we'll be able to prioritise these paper-cuts
with more users using the site.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
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Inkscape-user mailing list
Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
9:52 a.m.
Brynn,
Go ahead and do what needs to be done. You will never make all of the people
happy.
Best Regards,
Bill
Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Friday, January 25, 2019 5:31 PM, brynn <brynn@...3089...> wrote:
Hi Friends,
As I mentioned a couple of months ago, I've lost my patience over this
whole "new forum" issue.
I've been given the impression that we're (as a community) going back
into limbo with the forum situation, and holding our breath that there are no
more black eyes resulting from the lack of (effective) management of
InkscapeForum.com.
I don't understand why. Why risk yet another black eye? Do most people
just not realize everything that's happened due to the lack of effective
management, over the years? Or everything that could still happen? Shall I
elaborate? Or maybe most people just don't care, since they don't use forums
anyway?
What yet needs to be done to make the new forum live and close the old
one? To me, it has all the features it needs. As far as I know, the only thing
that's still needed is load testing (lots of users at the same time).
If we can start it within 6 months, I'd like to propose that we make a
concrete plan (as much as possible, given that this community doesn't function
well with deadlines). Of course I'd be glad to help create such a plan.
If it requires more than 6 months more work, I would propose installing
a php forum (SMF or phpBB) and start it right away. Then some day, if the
Django-integrated forum is ever ready, we can switch over to it.
Thanks for any clarity on this issue.
All best,
brynn
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alvinpenner -
Bill Sherwood -
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C R -
Marc Jeanmougin -
Maren Hachmann -
Tyler Durden