towards a less confusing/congested Objects dialog (auto-expanding layers/groups, hide HL column)
Hi Friends, I'm just having my first look at the new Objects dialog in 0.92pre2(beta) on Windows 7, 64-bit, sp1 (exe installer). I was about to submit a wishlist item on Launchpad, but I think it might be more useful to have more of a discussion, because there's a good chance I don't understand all the issues. First, thanks developers for this awesome feature. For the most part, I LOVE it!! I notice that whenever I select an object, (when the Objects dialog is open), the layer where the object resides is expanded, whether I want to edit the object or not. If the selected object is a group, the group is expanded as well. So just looking around the canvas at a couple of objects, the dialog is already scrolling. I find it quite confusing with everything expanded. And this is still a relatively small file, with 4 layers and 25 to 30 objects. Of course I realize the purpose of this new dialog is to help make things less confusing. But I just mean the visual appearance is confusing. I can understand how this automatic expanding of layers can be helpful. But how can Inkscape know why I've selected an object? For example, when I'm helping someone in the forum, I'm not planning to edit the file at all - just look at it. I wonder if it would work to make the automatic expanding optional (in Inkscape Prefs)? Or, I wonder if there would be any way to make it so that whenever you select an object in a different layer from the last selected object, the layer of the last selected object is collapsed, and the layer of the new selected object is expanded. Could that work?
Different from expanding layers, I see the HL column, with all those tiny red color chips represent the highlight color for the path outline. If the user has disabled the path outline, could this column be hidden?
Thanks for comments :-) brynn
I'm very happy and proud (?) Because I believe I submitted this feature request. And to be honest I never thought it would become real.
Thank you so much! The software that is already amazing just got awesomer(??). ;)
On Oct 25, 2016 9:18 PM, "Brynn" <brynn@...3089...> wrote:
Hi Friends, I'm just having my first look at the new Objects dialog in 0.92pre2(beta) on Windows 7, 64-bit, sp1 (exe installer). I was about to submit a wishlist item on Launchpad, but I think it might be more useful to have more of a discussion, because there's a good chance I don't understand all the issues. First, thanks developers for this awesome feature. For the most part, I LOVE it!! I notice that whenever I select an object, (when the Objects dialog is open), the layer where the object resides is expanded, whether I want to edit the object or not. If the selected object is a group, the group is expanded as well. So just looking around the canvas at a couple of objects, the dialog is already scrolling. I find it quite confusing with everything expanded. And this is still a relatively small file, with 4 layers and 25 to 30 objects. Of course I realize the purpose of this new dialog is to help make things less confusing. But I just mean the visual appearance is confusing. I can understand how this automatic expanding of layers can be helpful. But how can Inkscape know why I've selected an object? For example, when I'm helping someone in the forum, I'm not planning to edit the file at all - just look at it. I wonder if it would work to make the automatic expanding optional (in Inkscape Prefs)? Or, I wonder if there would be any way to make it so that whenever you select an object in a different layer from the last selected object, the layer of the last selected object is collapsed, and the layer of the new selected object is expanded. Could that work?
Different from expanding layers, I see the HL column, with allthose tiny red color chips represent the highlight color for the path outline. If the user has disabled the path outline, could this column be hidden?
Thanks for comments :-) brynn
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On 26 October 2016 at 06:14, Brynn <brynn@...3089...> wrote:
I notice that whenever I select an object, (when the Objects dialogis open), the layer where the object resides is expanded, whether I want to edit the object or not. If the selected object is a group, the group is expanded as well. So just looking around the canvas at a couple of objects, the dialog is already scrolling. I find it quite confusing with everything expanded. And this is still a relatively small file, with 4 layers and 25 to 30 objects. Of course I realize the purpose of this new dialog is to help make things less confusing. But I just mean the visual appearance is confusing. I can understand how this automatic expanding of layers can be helpful. But how can Inkscape know why I've selected an object? For example, when I'm helping someone in the forum, I'm not planning to edit the file at all - just look at it. I wonder if it would work to make the automatic expanding optional (in Inkscape Prefs)? Or, I wonder if there would be any way to make it so that whenever you select an object in a different layer from the last selected object, the layer of the last selected object is collapsed, and the layer of the new selected object is expanded. Could that work?
I agree that the automatic expanding can make the structure confusing and lets you lose the overview. Though an automatic collapsing is a bad idea, in my opinion. I wouldn't want the structure to collapse if I expanded it manually within the dialog. I could imagine to let the dialog work one way, i.e. only select the object in the viewport when it is clicked within the dialog but not select it in the dialog when it is selected within the viewport. To select an object within the dialog from the viewport you would then have a context menu entry similar to the 'Inspect Element' option in browsers to select the element within their devtools.
On the other hand, this would then work differently to the Layers dialog where the current layer is also selected when an object is selected in the viewport. And it might be confusing if another object is selected within the Objects dialog when selecting one in the viewport.
So, that's a difficult UX decision.
Different from expanding layers, I see the HL column, with all those
tiny red color chips represent the highlight color for the path outline. If the user has disabled the path outline, could this column be hidden?
+1 for that.
Sebastian
Here's how I image it would work.
1 - Select Object A in Layer 1 -->> Layer 1 expands and Object A is highlighted
2 - Select Object B in Layer 1 -->> Layer 1 remains expanded, and Object B is highlighted
3 - Select Object C in Layer 2 -->> Layer 1 collapses, Layer 2 is expanded, and Object C is highlighted
4 - Select Object D in Layer 3 -->> Layer 2 collapses, Layer 3 expands, and Object D is highlighted, since Object D is in a group, the group is also expanded
5 - Select Object E in Layer 3 -->> Layer 3 remains expanded, the group with Object D collapses, and since E is in a different group, its group expands.
Though an automatic collapsing is a bad idea, in my opinion. I wouldn't
want the structure to collapse if I expanded it manually within the dialog.
Hm yes, that makes sense. I wonder if there would be a way for Inkscape to recognize whether the layer or group was auto expanded or manually expanded? If that were possible, that would allow auto-collapsing to work, because manually expanded things would not be auto-collapsed. Even if that were possible, I can see how it could become confusing though.
Well maybe the best solution would be to keep my Objects dialog undocked. That's what I do for some other very large ones (like Doc Props and Filters).
I'll try undocking it while I work later today.
Thanks again :-)
__________________________________________________
From: Sebastian Zartner Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 6:24 AM To: Inkscape User Community Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] towards a less confusing/congested Objects dialog (auto-expanding layers/groups, hide HL column)
On 26 October 2016 at 06:14, Brynn <brynn@...3089...> wrote:
I notice that whenever I select an object, (when the Objects dialog is open), the layer where the object resides is expanded, whether I want to edit the object or not. If the selected object is a group, the group is expanded as well. So just looking around the canvas at a couple of objects, the dialog is already scrolling. I find it quite confusing with everything expanded. And this is still a relatively small file, with 4 layers and 25 to 30 objects. Of course I realize the purpose of this new dialog is to help make things less confusing. But I just mean the visual appearance is confusing. I can understand how this automatic expanding of layers can be helpful. But how can Inkscape know why I've selected an object? For example, when I'm helping someone in the forum, I'm not planning to edit the file at all - just look at it. I wonder if it would work to make the automatic expanding optional (in Inkscape Prefs)? Or, I wonder if there would be any way to make it so that whenever you select an object in a different layer from the last selected object, the layer of the last selected object is collapsed, and the layer of the new selected object is expanded. Could that work?
I agree that the automatic expanding can make the structure confusing and lets you lose the overview. Though an automatic collapsing is a bad idea, in my opinion. I wouldn't want the structure to collapse if I expanded it manually within the dialog.
I could imagine to let the dialog work one way, i.e. only select the object in the viewport when it is clicked within the dialog but not select it in the dialog when it is selected within the viewport. To select an object within the dialog from the viewport you would then have a context menu entry similar to the 'Inspect Element' option in browsers to select the element within their devtools.
On the other hand, this would then work differently to the Layers dialog where the current layer is also selected when an object is selected in the viewport. And it might be confusing if another object is selected within the Objects dialog when selecting one in the viewport.
So, that's a difficult UX decision.
Different from expanding layers, I see the HL column, with all those tiny red color chips represent the highlight color for the path outline. If the user has disabled the path outline, could this column be hidden?
+1 for that.
Sebastian
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise? Reconnect with the command line and become more productive. Learn the new .NET and ASP.NET CLI. Get your free copy! http://sdm.link/telerik
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participants (3)
-
Brynn -
Sebastian Zartner -
Victor Westmann