10:02 p.m.
Hello,
in the past I designed a lot of civic arms using Freehand 9 and MX, and
became quite friendly with it, though I always had to run it in VMware.
I was long since then on the search for a replacement, and years ago
stumbled upon sodipodi and now inkscape.
It fulfills almost all my needs, and far exceeds (in terms of usability
w/ keystrokes, cloning/mirroring etc.) the possibilities I came to use
in Freehand.
One thing though remains, which I'm at a loss in making them work as I
want them to.
a) If I have a path, which is made up of various nodes (as happens with
every shape, say a circle and a square, merged into a
a b
+-------------+
| |
| |
| |
| |
+ c + d
\_ _/
--_ _--
--+--
e
shape. This later is comprised of five nodes (a..e). But if I want to
place them on predefined positions, there's no possibility to do so,
e.g. having Node e on (300, 0).
I can either use the mouse to drag it near this point (but will never
manage to do it exactly), or use the XML editor, in which I don't see
the point (b/c it's such a royal pain searching through it and finding
finally this point. obviously this should then be done for all five points)
I can also use the grid and snap to grid functions, but I don't want to
be limited to only integer numbers, sometimes I want a point to be at
0.155,10.245 (or something else),
So: is there a possibility to enter the coordinates one drags the node
with the mouse (this would certainly also be cool for the handles of nodes)
--
cheers,
Alex
--
Cheers,
Alex
9:16 a.m.
Canæt help you.... But makes me think of a functionality in Flex (and maybe in Eclipse in
general}, that could come in handy in here:
If you select an interace-object and then switch to "code-view", the
corresponding object in the code is automatically selected or highlighted. If Inskcape
could do a similar trick, to allow for all the weird things user could posibly want to
alter... Not that exact node positioning is so weird, ofcourse...
Maarten
-----Original Message-----
From: inkscape-user-bounces(a)lists.sourceforge.net
[mailto:inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of Alexander Roalter
Sent: 28. juni 2007 22:02
To: inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Inkscape-user] A question about node positioning.
Hello,
in the past I designed a lot of civic arms using Freehand 9 and MX, and became quite
friendly with it, though I always had to run it in VMware.
I was long since then on the search for a replacement, and years ago stumbled upon
sodipodi and now inkscape.
It fulfills almost all my needs, and far exceeds (in terms of usability w/ keystrokes,
cloning/mirroring etc.) the possibilities I came to use in Freehand.
One thing though remains, which I'm at a loss in making them work as I want them to.
a) If I have a path, which is made up of various nodes (as happens with every shape, say a
circle and a square, merged into a
a b
+-------------+
| |
| |
| |
| |
+ c + d
\_ _/
--_ _--
--+--
e
shape. This later is comprised of five nodes (a..e). But if I want to place them on
predefined positions, there's no possibility to do so, e.g. having Node e on (300,
0).
I can either use the mouse to drag it near this point (but will never manage to do it
exactly), or use the XML editor, in which I don't see the point (b/c it's such a
royal pain searching through it and finding finally this point. obviously this should then
be done for all five points)
I can also use the grid and snap to grid functions, but I don't want to be limited to
only integer numbers, sometimes I want a point to be at
0.155,10.245 (or something else),
So: is there a possibility to enter the coordinates one drags the node with the mouse
(this would certainly also be cool for the handles of nodes)
--
cheers,
Alex
--
Cheers,
Alex
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1:38 p.m.
Maarten van der Velde wrote:
If you select an interace-object and then switch to
"code-view", the
corresponding object in the code is automatically selected or
highlighted. If Inskcape could do a similar trick, to allow for all
the weird things user could posibly want to alter... Not that exact
node positioning is so weird, ofcourse...
I think it would be really cool for highlighting to descend into the "d"
attribute in the xml editor. I hope someone takes you up on that idea
and implements it. One problem that users will have even after this is
implemented is that path data can only be represented in one unit, so
there will almost always be math necessary to make exact values in the
path corespond to the exact position on the screen that is desired. I
would also like to see x,y spinboxes on the node toolbar. I think Johan
has implemented a point input widget in his live effects branch. Perhaps
we could use it for this purpose when he merges back in. Though there is
still at least one issue to be resolved: handles cannot take focus.
Aaron Spike
1:50 p.m.
Aaron Spike wrote:
I think it would be really cool for highlighting to descend into the
"d"
attribute in the xml editor. I hope someone takes you up on that idea
and implements it. One problem that users will have even after this is
implemented is that path data can only be represented in one unit, so
there will almost always be math necessary to make exact values in the
path corespond to the exact position on the screen that is desired. I
would also like to see x,y spinboxes on the node toolbar. I think Johan
has implemented a point input widget in his live effects branch. Perhaps
we could use it for this purpose when he merges back in. Though there is
still at least one issue to be resolved: handles cannot take focus.
In addition to such input/spinboxes, is there any chance these input
boxes could learn some basic mathematics (like +,-,/ and * and
parenthesis), which would be really great, as otherwise you always have
to use a calculator to place e.g. objects equal distances left and right
of say a vertical line.
--
cheers,
Alex
1:59 p.m.
Alexander Roalter wrote:
In addition to such input/spinboxes, is there any chance these input
boxes could learn some basic mathematics (like +,-,/ and * and
parenthesis), which would be really great, as otherwise you always have
to use a calculator to place e.g. objects equal distances left and right
of say a vertical line.
You're asking to move whole objects, which is quite a bit different from
moving single points. I think it will take some major UI creativity to
put such a feature in a toolbar. Perhaps a textual notation like you
suggest. How will you distinguish between negative movement and
coordinates that are already negative? There are already a number of
ways to move whole objects available. The align and distribute dialog
and the transformation dialog may be used together to achieve what you
want. You can use the align dialog to make sure the object is positioned
exactly upon the line, and then use the transformation dialog to specify
the relative movement for the offset of the object.
Aaron Spike
2:08 p.m.
Aaron Spike wrote:
Alexander Roalter wrote:
> In addition to such input/spinboxes, is there any chance these input
> boxes could learn some basic mathematics (like +,-,/ and * and
> parenthesis), which would be really great, as otherwise you always have
> to use a calculator to place e.g. objects equal distances left and right
> of say a vertical line.
You're asking to move whole objects, which is quite a bit different from
moving single points. I think it will take some major UI creativity to
put such a feature in a toolbar. Perhaps a textual notation like you
suggest. How will you distinguish between negative movement and
coordinates that are already negative? There are already a number of
ways to move whole objects available. The align and distribute dialog
and the transformation dialog may be used together to achieve what you
want. You can use the align dialog to make sure the object is positioned
exactly upon the line, and then use the transformation dialog to specify
the relative movement for the offset of the object.
w/ align dialog and transformation, sure this can be achieved (and I'm
trying to use these functions to get to the results I want). Still this
requires careful planning beforehand, whilst with positions I could
select an object, give it the x-coordinate 10, and the other object
-10-375.223 (if 375.223 is the width of the object), and both objects
would be distant 10 from the vertical line at 0. But you're right. I
could create an object which serves as reference and has its left border
exactly at 0, and use it to help align both other objects to it, and
then move them apart...
As for the input line in toolbars, I thought more of a c like syntax (as
you would type in any program). There are plenty of flex/yacc defintions
out there defining how such an arithmetic input line has to be
implemented. They teach this in sophomore year at Computer Science.
Maybe I can cram up some of my old notes...
--
cheers,
Alex
3:49 p.m.
Just to join the brainstorm: maybe we could look at the autocad way of
dealing with things here? AutoCad uses (used?) a DOS-like command bar on
the bottom of the screen, where you could enter coordinates directly.
For example, if you want do draw a line, you can just click on two
different places in the screen, and the line would be created. But, you
could also use this command-line instead. First clicking the line icon,
then clicking this bar, then entering (for example)
5,5 [enter] 10,20 [enter]
But,...
One could also input
5,5 [enter] @5,15 [enter]
Where the "@" would indicate relative coordinates compared to the
previous point.
Also, AutoCad would give you the oppurtunity to enter
0,0 [enter] @20<10
Creating a line 20 millimeters long at an angle of 10 degrees.
I am not saying that we should implement it in exactly this way, but the
@-way of thinking might help?
Maarten
-----Original Message-----
From: inkscape-user-bounces(a)lists.sourceforge.net
[mailto:inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of
Alexander Roalter
Sent: 2. juli 2007 14:08
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] A question about node positioning.
Aaron Spike wrote:
Alexander Roalter wrote:
> In addition to such input/spinboxes, is there any chance these input
> boxes could learn some basic mathematics (like +,-,/ and * and
> parenthesis), which would be really great, as otherwise you always
> have to use a calculator to place e.g. objects equal distances left
> and right of say a vertical line.
You're asking to move whole objects, which is quite a bit different
from moving single points. I think it will take some major UI
creativity to put such a feature in a toolbar. Perhaps a textual
notation like you suggest. How will you distinguish between negative
movement and coordinates that are already negative? There are already
a number of ways to move whole objects available. The align and
distribute dialog and the transformation dialog may be used together
to achieve what you want. You can use the align dialog to make sure
the object is positioned exactly upon the line, and then use the
transformation dialog to specify the relative movement for the offset
of the
object.
w/ align dialog and transformation, sure this can be achieved (and I'm
trying to use these functions to get to the results I want). Still this
requires careful planning beforehand, whilst with positions I could
select an object, give it the x-coordinate 10, and the other object
-10-375.223 (if 375.223 is the width of the object), and both objects
would be distant 10 from the vertical line at 0. But you're right. I
could create an object which serves as reference and has its left border
exactly at 0, and use it to help align both other objects to it, and
then move them apart...
As for the input line in toolbars, I thought more of a c like syntax (as
you would type in any program). There are plenty of flex/yacc defintions
out there defining how such an arithmetic input line has to be
implemented. They teach this in sophomore year at Computer Science.
Maybe I can cram up some of my old notes...
--
cheers,
Alex
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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3:54 p.m.
Maarten van der Velde wrote:
Just to join the brainstorm: maybe we could look at the autocad way
of
dealing with things here? AutoCad uses (used?) a DOS-like command bar on
the bottom of the screen, where you could enter coordinates directly.
For example, if you want do draw a line, you can just click on two
different places in the screen, and the line would be created. But, you
could also use this command-line instead. First clicking the line icon,
then clicking this bar, then entering (for example)
5,5 [enter] 10,20 [enter]
But,...
One could also input
5,5 [enter] @5,15 [enter]
Where the "@" would indicate relative coordinates compared to the
previous point.
Also, AutoCad would give you the oppurtunity to enter
0,0 [enter] @20<10
Creating a line 20 millimeters long at an angle of 10 degrees.
I am not saying that we should implement it in exactly this way, but the
@-way of thinking might help?
That is something we could write as an extension so that people could
try it out and see how they like it.
Aaron Spike
5:14 p.m.
That is something we could write as an extension so that people
could
try it out and see how they like it.
Aaron Spike
Almost all CAD software is capable of such a thing (numeric input).
ArchiCAD come in my mind.
Anyway this feature are a bit CAD related, its would be really awesome
to have some capabilities.
- a measure tool (I readed something about it on the wiki:
http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/ExtensionArchitecture python
extesnion implements a tool, sadly no code yet.)
- units should be treated correctly all over the package (things should
be exact even if does not look good on the screen). So basically it
includes fixes for viewbox, cm, mm, px units and conversion between
them. If Im correct inkscape works with px units internally, so
conversions would be not exact between pixel and a real unit (like inch
(in) or centimeter (cm))
(its really a hard job, requires good knowledge over the inkscape, so
I think a core developper is needed here)
- any operation (draw a line, move a node, etc) can be input via
keyboard (numerically)
- the object centers should be placeable, in the middle, at the corners
and at the the middle of each side to achieve more easy placements.
(maybe via extensions)
- trim/extend functionality (new tool)
- snapping objects (I already began to write a proposal about it)
I think the best would be to categorize such needs on the wiki, and
gather as many informations (with screenshots) about these, as we can.
Is there already a CAD related page on the wiki?
I was only able to find some info about CAD features in the Roadmap:
http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Roadmap#Milestone_18_-_Inkscape_0...
There is a big opportunity in the CAD domain, so some basic
functionality would attract many tech people.
(I can specify some use cases, and write down the functionalities what
are needed to achieve those tasks, if there is some interests from the
developers)
Best regards,
Khiraly
12:56 p.m.
I am realy curious about InkCad version 0.00001 ;-)
But, yes, in general it sounds like a bunch of good ideas, although I
feel inkscape shouldn't get too CAD of even too complex. At the same
time, these simple CAD posibilities are missing in -I think- all drawing
programs outside the CAD world. At least, as I can see, in Illustrator,
Flash, Corel,...
-----Original Message-----
From: inkscape-user-bounces(a)lists.sourceforge.net
[mailto:inkscape-user-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of
Khiraly
Sent: 2. juli 2007 17:15
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] A question about node positioning.
That is something we could write as an extension so that people could
try it out and see how they like it.
Aaron Spike
Almost all CAD software is capable of such a thing (numeric input).
ArchiCAD come in my mind.
Anyway this feature are a bit CAD related, its would be really awesome
to have some capabilities.
- a measure tool (I readed something about it on the wiki:
http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/ExtensionArchitecture python
extesnion implements a tool, sadly no code yet.)
- units should be treated correctly all over the package (things should
be exact even if does not look good on the screen). So basically it
includes fixes for viewbox, cm, mm, px units and conversion between
them. If Im correct inkscape works with px units internally, so
conversions would be not exact between pixel and a real unit (like inch
(in) or centimeter (cm))
(its really a hard job, requires good knowledge over the inkscape, so
I think a core developper is needed here)
- any operation (draw a line, move a node, etc) can be input via
keyboard (numerically)
- the object centers should be placeable, in the middle, at the corners
and at the the middle of each side to achieve more easy placements.
(maybe via extensions)
- trim/extend functionality (new tool)
- snapping objects (I already began to write a proposal about it)
I think the best would be to categorize such needs on the wiki, and
gather as many informations (with screenshots) about these, as we can.
Is there already a CAD related page on the wiki?
I was only able to find some info about CAD features in the Roadmap:
http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Roadmap#Milestone_18_-_Inkscape_
0.52_-_Tech_drawing_abilities
There is a big opportunity in the CAD domain, so some basic
functionality would attract many tech people.
(I can specify some use cases, and write down the functionalities what
are needed to achieve those tasks, if there is some interests from the
developers)
Best regards,
Khiraly
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
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_______________________________________________
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are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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**********************************************************************
2:10 p.m.
Hi,
I can also use the grid and snap to grid functions, but I don't
want to
be limited to only integer numbers, sometimes I want a point to be at
0.155,10.245 (or something else),
So: is there a possibility to enter the coordinates one drags the node
with the mouse (this would certainly also be cool for the handles of nodes)
Not sure about other possibilities but the coordinates of the guide
lines can be entered directly so you could at least use "snap to guides"
as a workaround.
HTH, Elfi
5700
days inactive
5705
days old
inkscape-user@lists.inkscape.org
10 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Aaron Spike -
Alexander Roalter -
Elfi Heck -
Khiraly -
Maarten van der Velde