We started to convert Inkscape tutorials into DocBook, with SVG and HTML (and potentially other formats) generated automatically by XSLT stylesheets. The Basic tutorial in English was the first to be converted; here it is in HTML:
http://inkscape.org/doc/basic/tutorial-basic.html
(obviously there's no interactivity in HTML, but at least it's now printable).
If you want to help, pick your favorite tutorial (drop a note to the devel list first, to make sure it's not yet taken), check out the doc-docbook module from our CVS and follow the instructions in the file README to convert it into DocBook and extract illustrations as separate SVG files. This is simple work but it will be great help to the project, since it will make much easier to update tutorials, translate them into other languages, and write new ones.
Oh, and if you want to edit or translate or tutorial, please wait until it's converted and work with the DocBook version. (Better yet, convert it yourself :)
On 4/23/05, bulia byak <buliabyak@...155...> wrote:
check out the doc-docbook module from our CVS
And if you can't do that, here's a zip file of the same:
http://inkscape.org/doc/doc-xslt.zip
Just what does one do to view a docbook module? I just looked at your basic tutorial. It is marvelous. I wish I had had it when I was starting out with Inkscape. I would like to see the whole tutorial in docbook, which looks to be interactive.
Docbook doesn't look to be an app, but a DTD. What does one do to make it intellible? Use a browser? If so, how? (I'm using Firefox on WinXP.) Is there a reader app?
Please forgive these very basic questions.
Ed
On 4/23/05, bulia byak <buliabyak@...155...> wrote:
On 4/23/05, bulia byak <buliabyak@...155...> wrote:
check out the doc-docbook module from our CVS
And if you can't do that, here's a zip file of the same:
http://inkscape.org/doc/doc-xslt.zip
-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org
SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ide95&alloc_id%14396&opclick _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
On 4/23/05, Edward Hume <edhume@...155...> wrote:
Just what does one do to view a docbook module? I just looked at your basic tutorial. It is marvelous. I wish I had had it when I was starting out with Inkscape.
The Basic tutorial in SVG is in Inkscape since version 0.37 :) It's been available in the Help menu all this time.
I would like to see the whole tutorial in docbook, which looks to be interactive.
If you can't work with CVS, just download this:
http://inkscape.org/doc/doc-xslt.zip
It's the DocBook source of the basic tutorial. Use that as a sample if you want to convert other tutorials from SVG to DocBook (they are now in share/tutorials/*.svg).
Docbook doesn't look to be an app, but a DTD. What does one do to make it intellible? Use a browser? If so, how? (I'm using Firefox on WinXP.) Is there a reader app?
No, DocBook is not "interactive" nor an "application". It's just a simple semantic format, similar to HTML but a bit more complex. You can edit it in any text editor. I think there are special DocBook editors but I know nothing about them. I could give you a link to an online reference on DocBook but you really don't need it, because the full DocBook has hundreds of tags most of which you don't need. Just use the basic/tutorial-basic.xml from the above zip file as a template, it's really very simple.
In Help the whole time. Imagine that. I'm so accustomed to useless Help sections that I never looked there. Thank you.
On 4/23/05, bulia byak <buliabyak@...155...> wrote:
On 4/23/05, Edward Hume <edhume@...155...> wrote:
Just what does one do to view a docbook module? I just looked at your basic tutorial. It is marvelous. I wish I had had it when I was starting out with Inkscape.
The Basic tutorial in SVG is in Inkscape since version 0.37 :) It's been available in the Help menu all this time.
I would like to see the whole tutorial in docbook, which looks to be interactive.
If you can't work with CVS, just download this:
http://inkscape.org/doc/doc-xslt.zip
It's the DocBook source of the basic tutorial. Use that as a sample if you want to convert other tutorials from SVG to DocBook (they are now in share/tutorials/*.svg).
Docbook doesn't look to be an app, but a DTD. What does one do to make it intellible? Use a browser? If so, how? (I'm using Firefox on WinXP.) Is there a reader app?
No, DocBook is not "interactive" nor an "application". It's just a simple semantic format, similar to HTML but a bit more complex. You can edit it in any text editor. I think there are special DocBook editors but I know nothing about them. I could give you a link to an online reference on DocBook but you really don't need it, because the full DocBook has hundreds of tags most of which you don't need. Just use the basic/tutorial-basic.xml from the above zip file as a template, it's really very simple.
-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org
SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ide95&alloc_id%14396&opclick _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
--- Edward Hume <edhume@...155...> wrote:
In Help the whole time. Imagine that. I'm so accustomed to useless Help sections that I never looked there. Thank you.
Kinda tragic how often we hear that...
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
John Cliff wrote:
--- Edward Hume <edhume@...155...> wrote:
In Help the whole time. Imagine that. I'm so accustomed to useless Help sections that I never looked there. Thank you.
Kinda tragic how often we hear that...
I've always felt that the tutorials are a little bit tucked away in the Help menu. As Edward said, most Help menus are a pile of rubbish. Can something be done to draw more attention to it? Maybe a dialog that says about it on the first start up... (Although people would probably have objections to that due to usability.)
Jon
On Sat, Apr 23, 2005 at 09:16:03PM +0000, Jonathan Leighton wrote:
John Cliff wrote:
In Help the whole time. Imagine that. I'm so accustomed to useless Help sections that I never looked there. Thank you.
Kinda tragic how often we hear that...
I've always felt that the tutorials are a little bit tucked away in the Help menu. As Edward said, most Help menus are a pile of rubbish. Can something be done to draw more attention to it? Maybe a dialog that says about it on the first start up... (Although people would probably have objections to that due to usability.)
I've thought about this myself quite a bit, and also would like to see it have higher visibility.
I've thought about ideas like having a default svg pop up on first use, that points out the tutorials and such.
However, even if the user doesn't notice the tutorials, Inkscape is still pretty straightforward to learn. We've got mentions of the tutorials in a variety of places, so I'm sure most dedicated users will eventually run across them. Also, even though in other apps Help is not helpful, I think us putting genuinely useful things in there will spur others to make sure good stuff is in their Help menus.
Bryce
Bryce Harrington wrote:
I've thought about this myself quite a bit, and also would like to see it have higher visibility.
When the tutorials are available in other formats they will get noticed. The search engines will index the HTML. That alone will make the information much easier to find. And multiple formats will also make them easier to use.
Aaron Spike
On Sat, 2005-04-23 at 16:53 -0500, aaron@...476... wrote:
Bryce Harrington wrote:
I've thought about this myself quite a bit, and also would like to see it have higher visibility.
When the tutorials are available in other formats they will get noticed. The search engines will index the HTML. That alone will make the information much easier to find. And multiple formats will also make them easier to use.
http://svg.org/story/2005/3/28/22334/9392
It seems that Google is picking up SVG now also.
--Ted
For even us non-graphics professionals, the tutorials were exactly where we first looked, under Help. So I would not say they are hidden. One thing missing though is an index or table of contents for which tutorial to go to. ie Where do I find out how to draw a polygon? I really don't think some startup dialog is needed - it is pretty standard for users to look under Help. However, you might also want to add a link to the wiki page under Help. The wiki page is awesome - so much great information there. The best of any open source project I have seen. John
On Saturday 23 April 2005 15:26, Bryce Harrington wrote:
On Sat, Apr 23, 2005 at 09:16:03PM +0000, Jonathan Leighton wrote:
John Cliff wrote:
In Help the whole time. Imagine that. I'm so accustomed to useless Help sections that I never looked there. Thank you.
Kinda tragic how often we hear that...
I've always felt that the tutorials are a little bit tucked away in the Help menu. As Edward said, most Help menus are a pile of rubbish. Can something be done to draw more attention to it? Maybe a dialog that says about it on the first start up... (Although people would probably have objections to that due to usability.)
I've thought about this myself quite a bit, and also would like to see it have higher visibility.
I've thought about ideas like having a default svg pop up on first use, that points out the tutorials and such.
However, even if the user doesn't notice the tutorials, Inkscape is still pretty straightforward to learn. We've got mentions of the tutorials in a variety of places, so I'm sure most dedicated users will eventually run across them. Also, even though in other apps Help is not helpful, I think us putting genuinely useful things in there will spur others to make sure good stuff is in their Help menus.
Bryce
SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
However, even if the user doesn't notice the tutorials, Inkscape is still pretty straightforward to learn. We've got mentions of the tutorials in a variety of places, so I'm sure most dedicated users will eventually run across them. Also, even though in other apps Help is not helpful, I think us putting genuinely useful things in there will spur others to make sure good stuff is in their Help menus.
Bryce
I would agree with all of that. I was able to learn the rudiments of Inkscape by playing with it, and once asking for help on this list. And with the tutorial experience, I'm going to start looking at help sections again.
From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Apr 25 00:14:28 2005
Thread-Topic: Undeliverable: Password thread-index: AcVJZltleXIzOVp0RIO1o83h4z4PgA= From: "System Administrator" <administrator@...643...> To: inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-typeÞlivery-status; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_3F06F_01C54977.1EFF9790" Content-Class: urn:content-classes:dsn Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.181 Message-ID: <SRVSPAMyyYRNG4P2yPo00001230@...644...> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Apr 2005 07:14:02.0196 (UTC) FILETIME=[5B95C140:01C54966] Date: 25 Apr 2005 09:14:02 +0200 X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. Report problems to http://sf.net/tracker/?func%C2%ADd&group_id=1&atid 0001 1.0 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO 0.0 SF_CHICKENPOX_PARATHESES_OPEN BODY: Text interparsed with ( 0.0 SF_CHICKENPOX_PERIOD BODY: Text interparsed with . 0.0 SF_CHICKENPOX_MINUS BODY: Text interparsed with - 0.0 SF_CHICKENPOX_UNDERSCORE BODY: Text interparsed with _ 0.0 SF_CHICKENPOX_AT BODY: Text interparsed with @ 0.0 SF_CHICKENPOX_APOSTROPHE BODY: Text interparsed with ' -0.0 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list Subject: [Inkscape-user] Undeliverable: Password Sender: inkscape-user-admin@lists.sourceforge.net Errors-To: inkscape-user-admin@lists.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9-sf.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net List-Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user, mailto:inkscape-user-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe List-Id: Inkscape User Community <inkscape-user.lists.sourceforge.net> List-Post: mailto:inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net List-Help: mailto:inkscape-user-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help List-Subscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user, mailto:inkscape-user-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe List-Archive: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum=inkscape-user
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Very cool to see all this interest in the tutorials and docbook. :-)
Here's the lowdown on DocBook tools and stuff. As bulia mentioned, it's an XML format sort of like HTML for making reports, software manuals, and the like. It can be converted into HTML, PDF, PS, and other XML formats like SVG via 'stylesheets'.
A bunch of converter tools are available online; here's a listing:
http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/DocBookPublishingTools
DocBook is also the standard format that GNOME and KDE use for their system documentation. See 'Scrollkeeper' if you're curious.
There are some GUI tools for editing DocBook, such as ThotBook or LyX, but they tend to be a bit incomplete feature-wise so YMMV. OpenOffice also has a WYSIWYG DocBook editor. You can also look into general purpose XML editors such as XXE, XMetal, etc. as they'll be able to handle DocBook as well. As others mentioned, often just editing in a text editor is often quite sufficient.
There's a ton of DocBook info on the web. Here's one site that seems to have a well organized collection of links: http://wiki.docbook.org/topic
Bryce
On Sat, Apr 23, 2005 at 12:29:32PM -0400, Edward Hume wrote:
Just what does one do to view a docbook module? I just looked at your basic tutorial. It is marvelous. I wish I had had it when I was starting out with Inkscape. I would like to see the whole tutorial in docbook, which looks to be interactive.
Docbook doesn't look to be an app, but a DTD. What does one do to make it intellible? Use a browser? If so, how? (I'm using Firefox on WinXP.) Is there a reader app?
Please forgive these very basic questions.
Ed
On 4/23/05, bulia byak <buliabyak@...155...> wrote:
On 4/23/05, bulia byak <buliabyak@...155...> wrote:
check out the doc-docbook module from our CVS
And if you can't do that, here's a zip file of the same:
http://inkscape.org/doc/doc-xslt.zip
-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org
SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ide95&alloc_id%14396&opclick _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ide95&alloc_id%14396&op=click _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
On 4/23/05, Bryce Harrington <bryce@...69...> wrote:
There are some GUI tools for editing DocBook, such as ThotBook or LyX, but they tend to be a bit incomplete feature-wise so YMMV. OpenOffice also has a WYSIWYG DocBook editor. You can also look into general purpose XML editors such as XXE, XMetal, etc. as they'll be able to handle DocBook as well. As others mentioned, often just editing in a text editor is often quite sufficient.
Actually, there are heaps of XML editors, and part of them even pretend to be WYSIWYG :)
If you really feel like you need a WYSIWYG-like editor, I would suggest XML Mind (Java-based) or Serna (Qt/C++, Windows/Linux). But I've been dealing with DocBook/XML for three years and beleive me -- all of "special" XML editors have glitches and none of them are truly WYSIWYG (and never will be), so docbook guide (http://www.docbook.org/tdg5/en/html/docbook.html) as a reference and a text editor, which can load DTD and warn you about non-closed tags will help you do the job ;)
Maybe one day Conglomerate (www.conglomerate.org) will be a right tool to use. One day :)
Alexandre
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Oh, and if you want to edit or translate or tutorial, please wait until it's converted and work with the DocBook version. (Better yet, convert it yourself :)
i'm just curious... what about the current translations of tutorials? is there a way to simplify the conversion?
regards, bostjan
On 4/23/05, igzebedze <igzebedze@...82...> wrote:
i'm just curious... what about the current translations of tutorials? is there a way to simplify the conversion?
All translations that we have are in CVS. If you are asking if translations will be converted automatically, then no. You can however wait until the English original will be converted and replace the text in its DocBook file, but it's not any simpler than just copy/paste of that text from the translated SVG tutorial into a text file and adding the simple markup.
As for simplifying, I'm not sure what you mean. DocBook is dead simple. Just take one tutorial and do it. If you have any questions, ask me.
participants (11)
-
unknown＠example.com -
Alexandre Prokoudine -
Boštjan Špetič -
Bryce Harrington -
bulia byak -
Edward Hume -
igzebedze -
John Cliff -
John Taber -
Jonathan Leighton -
Ted Gould