installing on Windows, 32-bit vs 64-bit
Hi Friends, I'm not sure if this is something I just don't understand, or if it's particular to Inkscape. I recently learned that part of my understanding of 64 vs 32-bit was incorrect. So maybe I have this part wrong too. I'm installing Inkscape on a new 64-bit Windows 7 Pro computer (my old one is also 64-bit, but Win7 Home). Generally, for programs which are made for 64-bit systems, they usually are installed in C:\Program Files. And when I install a 32-bit version of a program, it usually goes in C:\Program Files (x86). First I installed 0.91 for 32-bit, because there's a particular issue with 64-bit that I want to avoid (for the short time until 0.92 is released stable). I used the EXE installer, and I let the installer put it where it thought was best, and it went into Program Files (x86), as I expected. But I also want to play with the gradient mesh tool, so I decided to install 0.92pre3. I think the problem that I want to avoid with the 32-bit version of 0.91 is now fixed. So for 0.92pre3, I chose the EXE installer for 64-bit Inkscape. When I first started the installation, it warned me that I already had Inkscape installed. I thought that was odd, because the 32-bit version was in Program Files (x86) and I thought the 64-bit version was supposed to go in Program Files. So I went past that part, and next there was a more specific warning, naming the folders and showing the filepath. I went on through that part too, and I specifically was watching to see where the installer wanted to put it. I was surprised when it actually did want to put it in Program Files (x86). So do I have some kind of misunderstanding of how 32- and 64-bit programs are installed? Or is it a correct understanding, but Inkscape does it differently for some reason? Thanks for your patience with my perrenial newbiness :-)
Thanks for your help, brynn
Hi Brynn,
if those versions interfere, you can also just use the binary archive that is available on the website.
(I can't help with the issue itself, sorry)
Regards, Maren
Am 28.11.2016 um 19:30 schrieb brynn:
Hi Friends, I'm not sure if this is something I just don't understand, or if it's particular to Inkscape. I recently learned that part of my understanding of 64 vs 32-bit was incorrect. So maybe I have this part wrong too. I'm installing Inkscape on a new 64-bit Windows 7 Pro computer (my old one is also 64-bit, but Win7 Home). Generally, for programs which are made for 64-bit systems, they usually are installed in C:\Program Files. And when I install a 32-bit version of a program, it usually goes in C:\Program Files (x86). First I installed 0.91 for 32-bit, because there's a particular issue with 64-bit that I want to avoid (for the short time until 0.92 is released stable). I used the EXE installer, and I let the installer put it where it thought was best, and it went into Program Files (x86), as I expected. But I also want to play with the gradient mesh tool, so I decided to install 0.92pre3. I think the problem that I want to avoid with the 32-bit version of 0.91 is now fixed. So for 0.92pre3, I chose the EXE installer for 64-bit Inkscape. When I first started the installation, it warned me that I already had Inkscape installed. I thought that was odd, because the 32-bit version was in Program Files (x86) and I thought the 64-bit version was supposed to go in Program Files. So I went past that part, and next there was a more specific warning, naming the folders and showing the filepath. I went on through that part too, and I specifically was watching to see where the installer wanted to put it. I was surprised when it actually did want to put it in Program Files (x86). So do I have some kind of misunderstanding of how 32- and 64-bit programs are installed? Or is it a correct understanding, but Inkscape does it differently for some reason? Thanks for your patience with my perrenial newbiness :-)
Thanks for your help, brynn
Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Hi, I would not attempt to do 2 full-blown installations of Inkscape on the same machine. You will almost certainly run into conflicts, either in the registry, or in the preferences file at: C:\Users\username\AppData\Roaming\inkscape. I would use a .7z version for the second (or third) version of Inkscape, which you can locate anywhere you like, preferably not underneath Program Files [x86].
Alvin
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Oh wow! I must have 3 or 4 versions installed on this 6 year old machine! I'm sure I've read that it's fine to have more than one version installed, as long as they aren't in the same directory. I'm not sure where I've read that, but it might be in the FAQ. I've also heard it from knowledgeable users (although I wouldn't be able to remember exactly who it was). Not to mention, I've passed it along more than a few times, when helping other users.
Is there something about 0.92 which changes that? I thought developers must have 5 or 6 versions installed....??
I typically don't change my preferences across versions, so that probably wouldn't cause a conflict.. But I'm quite sure I've both read, and heard from very knowledgeable users, that it's ok to have more than 1 version installed.
Of course I rarely have 2 versions running at the same time. It's usually only around a new release when I'm helping to track down bugs or unexpected new behavior.
This is rather shocking info. Is it really a big risk?
Thanks again!
-------------------------------------------------- From: "alvinpenner" <penner@...2467...> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 12:52 PM To: inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] installing on Windows, 32-bit vs 64-bit
Hi, I would not attempt to do 2 full-blown installations of Inkscape on the same machine. You will almost certainly run into conflicts, either in the registry, or in the preferences file at: C:\Users\username\AppData\Roaming\inkscape. I would use a .7z version for the second (or third) version of Inkscape, which you can locate anywhere you like, preferably not underneath Program Files [x86].
Alvin
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just for curiosity, go to Control Panel->Programs and Features and check to see how many versions of Inkscape are reported there.
Alvin
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Oh no, only the last one I installed is ever reported there. If I want to uninstall other versions, I have to use some other way, like in the Start menu, or Uninstall.exe.
But since I've always thought it was fine to have several versions installed, I've never uninstalled any. I just keep installing new ones, in different directories :-)
brynn
-------------------------------------------------- From: "alvinpenner" <penner@...2467...> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 5:35 PM To: inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] installing on Windows, 32-bit vs 64-bit
just for curiosity, go to Control Panel->Programs and Features and check to see how many versions of Inkscape are reported there.
Alvin
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Hi Alvin, Since answering your last question, I've done a good deal of searching, to try and understand this issue a little better. (although my searching skills are probably weak)
This is the top search result, no matter which combination of search terms I use. It only generally addresses my question about the 2 different program directories (at the top, and later goes into the op's specific question re IE).
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-files/programs-fi...
This is the best general explanation I could find, although I don't understand all of the discussion, which gets a little technical in some places.
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_vista-windows_progr...
But the bottom line is that over and over again, I read the Program Files is meant for 64-bit programs and Program Files (x86) is meant for 32-bit programs. I read that generally the distinction is made because Program Files is better equipped to handle programs which use a lot of RAM, and having the 2 separate directories generally helps Windows to work more efficiently.
Maybe the distinction is more and more moot, as the 64-bit type of computers are more common these days? But that's only me trying to make sense of why Inkscape wants to install its 64-bit version in the directory that's meant for 32-bit programs.
My experience follows what I thought was true, that multiple versions of Inkscape can be installed without any problems. But I'm in no position to be able defend whether it really is true or not. Maybe I've just been lucky? (Although it should probably be cleared up, so that I don't continue to provide incorrect info to other users.)
But I still remain curious about the 64-bit version of Inkscape wanting to install itself in the 32-bit directory (x86). I know from experience that RAM is often the limiting factor, when Inkscape drawings become larger and more complex (as opposed to processor or graphics card).
I don't need a very technical explanation. But I'd really appreciate a simple answer :-)
Thank you very much!
-------------------------------------------------- From: "alvinpenner" <penner@...2467...> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 5:35 PM To: inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] installing on Windows, 32-bit vs 64-bit
just for curiosity, go to Control Panel->Programs and Features and check to see how many versions of Inkscape are reported there.
Alvin
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Hi, to be perfectly honest, I do not have a 'technical' understanding of this issue. My response was based on the fact that I am cautious by nature. Being cautious, I would like to avoid all possibility of confusion or conflict between versions, therefore I would never install two versions on the same machine. The fact that only one version of Inkscape showed up in the Control Panel->Programs and Features, even after multiple installations, would already be enough to cause me some concern. However, here is a possible explanation of your problem (just speculating). Assume that your first installation of Inkscape was a 32 bit version, and that it went into the (x86) folder. This fact will certainly be recorded in the registry somewhere, and it is possible that Windows may try to force _all_ subsequent versions to go into this same directory, regardless of their origin. Again, just speculating. One way to test this hypothesis would be to uninstall all Inkscape versions from your computer until the Control Panel entry for Inkscape is empty, and then try to do a 64-bit install to see if it installs normally into the right folder. Alternatively, what you could do is just take the easy way out, and use the 7z distribution, which is guaranteed to work with no hassles.
good luck, Alvin
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Being cautious, I would like to avoid all possibility of confusion or
conflict between versions, therefore I would never install two versions on the same machine.
I wouldn't install the exact same program on the same computer twice. It doesn't make sense, for one thing. But I thought that being different versions, they were not the exact same program. Plus, I've had this notion that it was ok to have different versions installed, as long as they are not in the same folder.
I've been looking for where I might have read this "advice". But both the website and the wiki have been edited extensively over the last couple of years or so. It might have even been on the old website where I read it.
I do remember reading, relatively recently, about a bug with an MSI version of Inkscape, which didn't check for previous versions, and tried to install into the same directory as the existing installation. I didn't read into the details, because much of it was too technical. But I thought it meant that Inkscape should check for existing versions, and put the new one somewhere else. But maybe I misunderstood that? Maybe the problem was that it should check for exising versions, and refuse to install if it found one??
Anyway, see my reply to Raymond Wan, for my plans re your suggestions.
Thank you very much, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: alvinpenner Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 4:44 AM To: inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] installing on Windows, 32-bit vs 64-bit
Hi, to be perfectly honest, I do not have a 'technical' understanding of this issue. My response was based on the fact that I am cautious by nature. Being cautious, I would like to avoid all possibility of confusion or conflict between versions, therefore I would never install two versions on the same machine. The fact that only one version of Inkscape showed up in the Control Panel->Programs and Features, even after multiple installations, would already be enough to cause me some concern. However, here is a possible explanation of your problem (just speculating). Assume that your first installation of Inkscape was a 32 bit version, and that it went into the (x86) folder. This fact will certainly be recorded in the registry somewhere, and it is possible that Windows may try to force _all_ subsequent versions to go into this same directory, regardless of their origin. Again, just speculating. One way to test this hypothesis would be to uninstall all Inkscape versions from your computer until the Control Panel entry for Inkscape is empty, and then try to do a 64-bit install to see if it installs normally into the right folder. Alternatively, what you could do is just take the easy way out, and use the 7z distribution, which is guaranteed to work with no hassles.
good luck, Alvin
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-----Original Message----- From: Brynn [mailto:brynn@...3089...] Sent: 30 November 2016 10:36 To: inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] installing on Windows, 32-bit vs 64-bit
Hi Alvin, Since answering your last question, I've done a good deal of searching, to try and understand this issue a little better. (although my searching skills are probably weak)
This is the top search result, no matter which combination of search terms I use. It only generally addresses my question about the 2 different program directories (at the top, and later goes into the op's specific question re IE).
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-files/programs-fi... 472a-a1bb-eefccfeca6d7
This is the best general explanation I could find, although I don't understand all of the discussion, which gets a little technical in some places.
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_vista-windows_progr... files/b71d79fe-cd9c-4a23-a114-aa397946d621
But the bottom line is that over and over again, I read the Program Files is meant for 64-bit programs and Program Files (x86) is meant for 32-bit programs. I read that generally the distinction is made because Program Files is better equipped to handle programs which use a lot of RAM, and having the 2 separate directories generally helps Windows to work more efficiently.
Agreed.
<snip>
But I still remain curious about the 64-bit version of Inkscape wanting to install itself in the 32-bit directory (x86 ).
I believe that 64-bit Inkscape definitely should install in the Program Files folder.
(and 32-bit in the Program Files (x86))
If not, then it is a mistake in the install script?
Paul
--- Paul A. Bristow Prizet Farmhouse Kendal UK LA8 8AB +44 (0) 1539 561830
Hi Brynn,
I haven't been following this discussion, but I hope you don't mind if I jump in...
I agree with Alvin's suggestion and also his idea to uninstall all versions and then re-install the 64 bit version. (I would further suggest that you do a reboot prior to installing the 64 bit version, just in case.)
However, you raised some interesting points which I'll try to answer, even though I'm not much of an expert with Windows...
On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Brynn <brynn@...3089...> wrote:
But the bottom line is that over and over again, I read the Program Files is meant for 64-bit programs and Program Files (x86) is meant for 32-bit programs. I read that generally the distinction is made because Program Files is better equipped to handle programs which use a lot of RAM, and having the 2 separate directories generally helps Windows to work more efficiently.
That is partly true. However, a 32-bit version of a program and a 64-bit version of the same program are two different versions of the same program. There was a time when you had to decide which version you had to download or buy. (i.e., older versions of Microsoft Windows was like this...you had to choose one version to buy and if you bought the wrong one, you have to go out and buy the other one).
Nowadays, when you buy one, you get both versions. But it's still two different versions.
So, by this, I mean if you download the 32-bit version and it "somehow" installs itself in the 64-bit Program Files directory, it doesn't "make it" into a 64-bit version. It is actually being installed in the wrong place.
Placing them in two separate directories makes it easier to distinguish between two different versions of the same program. This is because a 64-bit Windows can run both 32-bit and 64-bit programs. But yes, 32-bit programs (running under 64-bit Windows) have access to less memory. But sometimes that's the only version available for download / purchase.
If you have a 64-bit machine and 64-bit Windows, indeed...go with the 64-bit program only.
Maybe the distinction is more and more moot, as the 64-bit type of computers are more common these days? But that's only me trying to make sense of why Inkscape wants to install its 64-bit version in the directory that's meant for 32-bit programs.
I am surprised this happened to you but Alvin's message is a reasonable guess. I *think* something is definitely going wrong...
My experience follows what I thought was true, that multiple versions of Inkscape can be installed without any problems. But I'm in no position to be able defend whether it really is true or not. Maybe I've just been lucky? (Although it should probably be cleared up, so that I don't continue to provide incorrect info to other users.)
I think a program being installed correctly doesn't necessarily mean it is a good thing. You may have mixed up versions of programs that will cause headaches for you further down the road.
Installation is a fancy term for copying a file. And often, when you copy a file, you don't check if there is a file already there and also, if that file is important to someone else. Installation programs are also like this.
Suppose version 1 copies a file called abc.bin to a directory. Version 2 copies its abc.bin on top of version 1's. Now, you uninstall version 1. abc.bin gets deleted. When you try to uninstall version 2, it might flag an error because it says abc.bin is missing... This is one scenario that I can imagine when you uninstall all your versions of Inkscape, but at this stage, it's a bit unavoidable.
I think uninstalling all versions of Inkscape is the way to go, but I wouldn't do it before a deadline. :-) Make sure you are in a patient mood before attempting.
Indeed, two versions of Inkscape should be listed as two versions in your list of installed programs. The fact that it isn't is of course not your fault. But ignoring it may not be a good idea...
I don't need a very technical explanation. But I'd really appreciate a simple answer :-)
I hope my answer wasn't very technical and that it was helpful! I'm new to Inkscape but installing multiple versions of a program on to a Windows machine is a nightmare I've had before... ;-(
Ray
Thanks for your comments, Ray. Much appreciated.
Since there hasn't been much response to this, which to me seems like a potentially serious problem/bug, I'm wondering if those who package Inkscape for Windows already are aware of this, but don't have time to explain it.
If you have a 64-bit machine and 64-bit Windows, indeed...go with the
64-bit program only.
I had to use the 32-bit version of 0.91, because of a bug in the 64-bit version which was bothersome. I felt it was fortunate that I had a choice. But I also understood that Inkscape wouldn't be using all my cores and memory threads (or whateve they are called). (I think it's been fixed for 0.92, so I'll be glad to switch back to 64-bit.
Indeed, two versions of Inkscape should be listed as two versions in
your list of installed programs. The fact that it isn't is of course not your fault. But ignoring it may not be a good idea...
Are you saying that what I thought was true, that multiple versions can be installed, as long as they are in different directories? Or are you saying the *if* multiple versions are allowed, they should both (or all) be shown in Programs and Features?
Next steps for me depend on whether we are trying to find a solution to my problem (if I have one, I'm not sure), or whether we are trying to find a solution to a problem with Inkscape's installation.
For me, my previously installed 3 or 4 or maybe even 5 versions (if you count 7z, I'm sure I have at least 1 or 2 of those) are on an old computer, which is on its last legs. I'm just about finished configuring my new computer (which is where I discovered this potential problem).
The old computer has already died twice, and miraculously come back to life. So I've been avoiding major changes, such as installing and uninstalling anything. I've even been avoiding Windows Updates. Now that I have the new computer ready to take over, I'll probably see to the updates. If it can handle the updates, maybe I'll try to uninstall all the Inkscape versions I have.
If it doesn't handle installing/uninstalling, I will only have this new computer to work with. I have only installed Inkscape 0.91, 32-bit on the new computer. So it will be easy to uninstall it, and try the 64-bit version. I'm on the new computer at the moment, so I'll go ahead and do that. But for uninstalling all the versions on the old computer, maybe later tonight.
When I do all this uninstalling and installing, I will be transferring my same preferences.xml file from the old into the new. The prefs file has no bearing on this issue, right? And what about Inkscape versions? Should I experiment with 0.91 stable, or 0.92pre3? Or that doesn't matter either?
But even if the 64-bit version installs correctly, I still would like someone to address the issue of having multiple versions installed. Do bug managers and testers use all 7z versions, when they do their testing? What if they have to test a problem with an EXE or MSI version??
This would be a really odd thing for my brain to have dreamed up, all on its own. I don't doubt that I read that from some authorative source. Seems like it might have been....I don't think more than 5 years ago.
Thanks for everyone's attention and support. I'll post results of the first test shortly.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Raymond Wan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 7:53 PM To: Inkscape User Community Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] installing on Windows, 32-bit vs 64-bit
Hi Brynn,
I haven't been following this discussion, but I hope you don't mind if I jump in...
I agree with Alvin's suggestion and also his idea to uninstall all versions and then re-install the 64 bit version. (I would further suggest that you do a reboot prior to installing the 64 bit version, just in case.)
However, you raised some interesting points which I'll try to answer, even though I'm not much of an expert with Windows...
On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Brynn <brynn@...3089...> wrote:
But the bottom line is that over and over again, I read the Program Files is meant for 64-bit programs and Program Files (x86) is meant for 32-bit programs. I read that generally the distinction is made because Program Files is better equipped to handle programs which use a lot of RAM, and having the 2 separate directories generally helps Windows to work more efficiently.
That is partly true. However, a 32-bit version of a program and a 64-bit version of the same program are two different versions of the same program. There was a time when you had to decide which version you had to download or buy. (i.e., older versions of Microsoft Windows was like this...you had to choose one version to buy and if you bought the wrong one, you have to go out and buy the other one).
Nowadays, when you buy one, you get both versions. But it's still two different versions.
So, by this, I mean if you download the 32-bit version and it "somehow" installs itself in the 64-bit Program Files directory, it doesn't "make it" into a 64-bit version. It is actually being installed in the wrong place.
Placing them in two separate directories makes it easier to distinguish between two different versions of the same program. This is because a 64-bit Windows can run both 32-bit and 64-bit programs. But yes, 32-bit programs (running under 64-bit Windows) have access to less memory. But sometimes that's the only version available for download / purchase.
If you have a 64-bit machine and 64-bit Windows, indeed...go with the 64-bit program only.
Maybe the distinction is more and more moot, as the 64-bit type of computers are more common these days? But that's only me trying to make sense of why Inkscape wants to install its 64-bit version in the directory that's meant for 32-bit programs.
I am surprised this happened to you but Alvin's message is a reasonable guess. I *think* something is definitely going wrong...
My experience follows what I thought was true, that multiple versions of Inkscape can be installed without any problems. But I'm in no position to be able defend whether it really is true or not. Maybe I've just been lucky? (Although it should probably be cleared up, so that I don't continue to provide incorrect info to other users.)
I think a program being installed correctly doesn't necessarily mean it is a good thing. You may have mixed up versions of programs that will cause headaches for you further down the road.
Installation is a fancy term for copying a file. And often, when you copy a file, you don't check if there is a file already there and also, if that file is important to someone else. Installation programs are also like this.
Suppose version 1 copies a file called abc.bin to a directory. Version 2 copies its abc.bin on top of version 1's. Now, you uninstall version 1. abc.bin gets deleted. When you try to uninstall version 2, it might flag an error because it says abc.bin is missing... This is one scenario that I can imagine when you uninstall all your versions of Inkscape, but at this stage, it's a bit unavoidable.
I think uninstalling all versions of Inkscape is the way to go, but I wouldn't do it before a deadline. :-) Make sure you are in a patient mood before attempting.
Indeed, two versions of Inkscape should be listed as two versions in your list of installed programs. The fact that it isn't is of course not your fault. But ignoring it may not be a good idea...
I don't need a very technical explanation. But I'd really appreciate a simple answer :-)
I hope my answer wasn't very technical and that it was helpful! I'm new to Inkscape but installing multiple versions of a program on to a Windows machine is a nightmare I've had before... ;-(
Ray
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Ok, so for uninstalling 32-bit, exe, 0.92, then restarting computer, then attempting to install 0.92pre3 of 64-bit Inkscape -- Inkscape does correctly want to install it in Program Files.
So as long as there are no pre-existing versions installed, Inkscape does install to the correct directory.
But for multiple versions, it does not necessarily. And the question about the safety of having multiple versions installed is still unanswered.
For testing whether I am able to successfully uninstall my few different versions (on the other computer), will have to wait a little while. Tomorrow morning maybe. I'll post as soon as I've had a chance to try it.
Thanks again :-)
-----Original Message----- From: brynn Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 10:24 PM To: Inkscape User Community Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] installing on Windows, 32-bit vs 64-bit
Thanks for your comments, Ray. Much appreciated.
Since there hasn't been much response to this, which to me seems like a potentially serious problem/bug, I'm wondering if those who package Inkscape for Windows already are aware of this, but don't have time to explain it.
If you have a 64-bit machine and 64-bit Windows, indeed...go with the
64-bit program only.
I had to use the 32-bit version of 0.91, because of a bug in the 64-bit version which was bothersome. I felt it was fortunate that I had a choice. But I also understood that Inkscape wouldn't be using all my cores and memory threads (or whateve they are called). (I think it's been fixed for 0.92, so I'll be glad to switch back to 64-bit.
Indeed, two versions of Inkscape should be listed as two versions in
your list of installed programs. The fact that it isn't is of course not your fault. But ignoring it may not be a good idea...
Are you saying that what I thought was true, that multiple versions can be installed, as long as they are in different directories? Or are you saying the *if* multiple versions are allowed, they should both (or all) be shown in Programs and Features?
Next steps for me depend on whether we are trying to find a solution to my problem (if I have one, I'm not sure), or whether we are trying to find a solution to a problem with Inkscape's installation.
For me, my previously installed 3 or 4 or maybe even 5 versions (if you count 7z, I'm sure I have at least 1 or 2 of those) are on an old computer, which is on its last legs. I'm just about finished configuring my new computer (which is where I discovered this potential problem).
The old computer has already died twice, and miraculously come back to life. So I've been avoiding major changes, such as installing and uninstalling anything. I've even been avoiding Windows Updates. Now that I have the new computer ready to take over, I'll probably see to the updates. If it can handle the updates, maybe I'll try to uninstall all the Inkscape versions I have.
If it doesn't handle installing/uninstalling, I will only have this new computer to work with. I have only installed Inkscape 0.91, 32-bit on the new computer. So it will be easy to uninstall it, and try the 64-bit version. I'm on the new computer at the moment, so I'll go ahead and do that. But for uninstalling all the versions on the old computer, maybe later tonight.
When I do all this uninstalling and installing, I will be transferring my same preferences.xml file from the old into the new. The prefs file has no bearing on this issue, right? And what about Inkscape versions? Should I experiment with 0.91 stable, or 0.92pre3? Or that doesn't matter either?
But even if the 64-bit version installs correctly, I still would like someone to address the issue of having multiple versions installed. Do bug managers and testers use all 7z versions, when they do their testing? What if they have to test a problem with an EXE or MSI version??
This would be a really odd thing for my brain to have dreamed up, all on its own. I don't doubt that I read that from some authorative source. Seems like it might have been....I don't think more than 5 years ago.
Thanks for everyone's attention and support. I'll post results of the first test shortly.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Raymond Wan Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 7:53 PM To: Inkscape User Community Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] installing on Windows, 32-bit vs 64-bit
Hi Brynn,
I haven't been following this discussion, but I hope you don't mind if I jump in...
I agree with Alvin's suggestion and also his idea to uninstall all versions and then re-install the 64 bit version. (I would further suggest that you do a reboot prior to installing the 64 bit version, just in case.)
However, you raised some interesting points which I'll try to answer, even though I'm not much of an expert with Windows...
On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Brynn <brynn@...3089...> wrote:
But the bottom line is that over and over again, I read the Program Files is meant for 64-bit programs and Program Files (x86) is meant for 32-bit programs. I read that generally the distinction is made because Program Files is better equipped to handle programs which use a lot of RAM, and having the 2 separate directories generally helps Windows to work more efficiently.
That is partly true. However, a 32-bit version of a program and a 64-bit version of the same program are two different versions of the same program. There was a time when you had to decide which version you had to download or buy. (i.e., older versions of Microsoft Windows was like this...you had to choose one version to buy and if you bought the wrong one, you have to go out and buy the other one).
Nowadays, when you buy one, you get both versions. But it's still two different versions.
So, by this, I mean if you download the 32-bit version and it "somehow" installs itself in the 64-bit Program Files directory, it doesn't "make it" into a 64-bit version. It is actually being installed in the wrong place.
Placing them in two separate directories makes it easier to distinguish between two different versions of the same program. This is because a 64-bit Windows can run both 32-bit and 64-bit programs. But yes, 32-bit programs (running under 64-bit Windows) have access to less memory. But sometimes that's the only version available for download / purchase.
If you have a 64-bit machine and 64-bit Windows, indeed...go with the 64-bit program only.
Maybe the distinction is more and more moot, as the 64-bit type of computers are more common these days? But that's only me trying to make sense of why Inkscape wants to install its 64-bit version in the directory that's meant for 32-bit programs.
I am surprised this happened to you but Alvin's message is a reasonable guess. I *think* something is definitely going wrong...
My experience follows what I thought was true, that multiple versions of Inkscape can be installed without any problems. But I'm in no position to be able defend whether it really is true or not. Maybe I've just been lucky? (Although it should probably be cleared up, so that I don't continue to provide incorrect info to other users.)
I think a program being installed correctly doesn't necessarily mean it is a good thing. You may have mixed up versions of programs that will cause headaches for you further down the road.
Installation is a fancy term for copying a file. And often, when you copy a file, you don't check if there is a file already there and also, if that file is important to someone else. Installation programs are also like this.
Suppose version 1 copies a file called abc.bin to a directory. Version 2 copies its abc.bin on top of version 1's. Now, you uninstall version 1. abc.bin gets deleted. When you try to uninstall version 2, it might flag an error because it says abc.bin is missing... This is one scenario that I can imagine when you uninstall all your versions of Inkscape, but at this stage, it's a bit unavoidable.
I think uninstalling all versions of Inkscape is the way to go, but I wouldn't do it before a deadline. :-) Make sure you are in a patient mood before attempting.
Indeed, two versions of Inkscape should be listed as two versions in your list of installed programs. The fact that it isn't is of course not your fault. But ignoring it may not be a good idea...
I don't need a very technical explanation. But I'd really appreciate a simple answer :-)
I hope my answer wasn't very technical and that it was helpful! I'm new to Inkscape but installing multiple versions of a program on to a Windows machine is a nightmare I've had before... ;-(
Ray
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Hi Brynn,
I'm glad you found some of what I said to be useful. I can't answer all of your questions below, so hope you don't mind if I "pick and choose" only those that I can answer.
On Sat, Dec 3, 2016 at 1:24 PM, brynn <brynn@...3089...> wrote:
Thanks for your comments, Ray. Much appreciated.
Since there hasn't been much response to this, which to me seems like a potentially serious problem/bug, I'm wondering if those who package Inkscape for Windows already are aware of this, but don't have time to explain it.
As I've hinted, I've experienced this problem with other programs before on Microsoft Windows. It is a bit more common than we would like. So, I'm a bit hesitant to label it a "serious bug" given that it does happen to other programs.
Or, to put it another way, I encountered it many years ago when there were still 32-bit systems. Once it bit me, I never took the risk again and uninstalled all previous versions before installing the next one.
If you have a 64-bit machine and 64-bit Windows, indeed...go with the
64-bit program only.
I had to use the 32-bit version of 0.91, because of a bug in the 64-bit version which was bothersome. I felt it was fortunate that I had a choice. But I also understood that Inkscape wouldn't be using all my cores and memory threads (or whateve they are called). (I think it's been fixed for 0.92, so I'll be glad to switch back to 64-bit.
I don't know what you do with Inkscape, but if you're just drawing pictures, I guess 32-bit is probably enough. That seems to be 4 GB of memory -- that's actually a lot of memory for a picture. Surely if you're processing video or other large data files, 4 GB might not be enough.
Just my guess, though... I guess you would know if you were hitting the limit because Inkscape would become *really* slow. (Since it would probably use your hard disk to make up for less memory.) If that hasn't happened to you, my *guess* is that you never hit the limit.
Nowadays, the bigger issue between 32-bit versus 64-bit is that developers are slowing down in terms of updates to the 32-bit version. I think it will be gradually phased out. The fact that Inkscape still makes a 32-bit available is a testament to its low memory requirements (in my humble opinion).
Indeed, two versions of Inkscape should be listed as two versions in
your list of installed programs. The fact that it isn't is of course not your fault. But ignoring it may not be a good idea...
Are you saying that what I thought was true, that multiple versions can be installed, as long as they are in different directories? Or are you saying the *if* multiple versions are allowed, they should both (or all) be shown in Programs and Features?
So, I guess I was saying a few things in that paragraph. Sorry about that!
It's been a while since I even attempted to have two versions of a program on my computer, so this is a bit from memory...
Suppose you had "Microsoft Office 2010" and then you installed "Microsoft Office 2012". I don't suggest this! But in your list of installed programs, you may see two entries. Presumably, Microsoft has allowed these two programs to co-exist and their names are what I just wrote in quotations. Thus, when installing the latter one, there is no name clash.
On the other hand, suppose you first installed version 2010 of "Microsoft Office". Then you try to install version 2012. It would be good if you're given a warning here because there would be a "duplicate program".
So, the question from Microsoft Windows' perspective is what is the name of the program. "Microsoft Office 2010" or "Microsoft Office", version 2010. And the answer to this question isn't clear-cut and it will vary from program to program. I don't know what Inkscape does. Is it "Inkscape 32-bit" or the 32-bit version of "Inkscape"?
The other point I was trying to make is if it is "Inkscape", then suppose you installed the 32-bit version first. Then, when you install the 64-bit version, does it go into "Program Files x86" but in a completely *separate* folder. That is, are the two installations 100% independent? If so, then that is a good sign and having the two versions on your computer is perfectly ok.
On the other hand, with it try to install the 64-bit version on *top* of the 32-bit version? If so, that is bad. And we aren't talking about just the folder but also the "registry" [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Registry] . The Windows Registry is a database of installed programs -- so it contains information about installed programs. And messing that up is a nightmare.
Without knowing whether the 64-bit version is installed in a way that is completely independent of the 32-bit version, the safest, most conservative approach is to keep at most one version on your computer at any given time. Having the installation succeed doesn't necessarily mean everything is ok -- that is because when the latter version is installed, it may not check if there is another version already there. So, it will write on top of files without warning...
When I do all this uninstalling and installing, I will be transferring my same preferences.xml file from the old into the new. The prefs file has no bearing on this issue, right? And what about Inkscape versions? Should I experiment with 0.91 stable, or 0.92pre3? Or that doesn't matter either?
As a new user of Inkscape, I definitely can't answer this question for you.
What I said above is probably applicable to any program with a 32-bit and a 64-bit version.
Hopefully someone else can help you!
But even if the 64-bit version installs correctly, I still would like someone to address the issue of having multiple versions installed. Do bug managers and testers use all 7z versions, when they do their testing? What if they have to test a problem with an EXE or MSI version??
Likewise, I haven't played with the 7z versions, either.
I'm not sure if anyone has the 32-bit and 64-bit versions co-existing as a type of "test". I think you might need a developer to chime in when you're asking more specifically about Inkscape.
Good luck with your problem! From your other e-mail, it sounds like you uninstalled the 32-bit version and then installed the 64-bit version fine? That's good to hear!
Ray
participants (6)
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alvinpenner -
brynn -
Brynn
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Maren Hachmann -
Paul A. Bristow -
Raymond Wan