Re: [Inkscape-board] re committee
Hey Alexandre (& board),
I really think this is one of those tough issues regarding Packt and the project showing any form of favoritism in the name of financial gain vs something community based (not say that there's anything comparable, but saying that tends to be the preference). If I could get a copy of it (no I don't want to pay) to judge the quality, I could then feel comfortable with voting.
As for the board though, I do believe that at some point it was originally supposed to be term based. I think we should revisit this issue as there may be people on the board who are no longer actively involved with the project and are unresponsive. Additionally, there may also be some of our newer & more active contributors who might have different perspectives that could be beneficial.
I feel that at least two people should definitely be given the opportunity to be on the board. Those people would be Johan & JazzyNico. According to ohloh.net (not perfect), but Johan is ranked as the #2 committer to the project behind only bulia and Nicolas is ranked #5 (4 commits away from being #4)... and yes, I realize that Nicolas also does translation work and maintenance, but I'm looking at commitment to the project. At some point I'd also want to extend offers to Felipe & Krzysztof as well, but that's for another day.
Johan & Nicolas, would you be interested on being on the board? If you look at the archives for the list, we rarely talk about stuff (every 6 months at best, I believe we've had a stretch of well over a year with no discussions), so it's by no means a big commitment time-wise.
Alexandre, I understand where you're coming from. Please know that you evangelizing for the project (and oss graphics software in general) is HUGELY appreciated. Please don't leave us. I will admit, I've been at that point in the past too... mainly when there is no code changing activity, lack of responses on the mailing lists, and it seems like no one is interested in just fixing bugs so we can just get a release out. Adib & Nicolas generally step up and relieve that tension though (Gellule is shaping up to be another). Either way, I've literally been just an inch away from the half baked scene (NSFW): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuBRk6tjiUQ(obviously I wouldn't be like that with any fellow contributors, but I've certainly been that frustrated).
Cheers, Josh
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:43 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine < alexandre.prokoudine@...23...> wrote:
Hi,
I have to say that I'm extremely disappointed with Inkscape committee. It's been a month since I'm not able to tell PacktPub *anything* concrete about their proposal. A PR person is not supposed to keep people waiting a whole damn month.
Guys, what do you expect me to tell PacktPub? That decision makers in the project don't care about the project? That they don't actually make decisions per se? Do you understand that this is about reputation?
I can stretch it a bit once again, but if this nonsense doesn't stop, I will step down as PR manager.
Please forward to the rest of the committee.
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
On 6/16/2011 1:06 PM, Josh Andler wrote:
As for the board though, I do believe that at some point it was originally supposed to be term based. I think we should revisit this issue as there may be people on the board who are no longer actively involved with the project and are unresponsive. Additionally, there may also be some of our newer & more active contributors who might have different perspectives that could be beneficial.
I wasn't aware that any of the committee members were unresponsive. That's a bummer.
I do recall there being some idea of term limits on the committee, but in my memory it was only related to my position as honorary community person. IIRC the founder positions were permanent. We should read the original document to make sure. In any case I think it is long past time for me to hand my position over to another more active community member.
Alexandre, I understand where you're coming from. Please know that you evangelizing for the project (and oss graphics software in general) is HUGELY appreciated. Please don't leave us. I will admit, I've been at that point in the past too... mainly when there is no code changing activity, lack of responses on the mailing lists, and it seems like no one is interested in just fixing bugs so we can just get a release out. Adib & Nicolas generally step up and relieve that tension though (Gellule is shaping up to be another). Either way, I've literally been just an inch away from the half baked scene (NSFW): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuBRk6tjiUQ (obviously I wouldn't be like that with any fellow contributors, but I've certainly been that frustrated).
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:43 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@...23... mailto:alexandre.prokoudine@...23...> wrote:
I have to say that I'm extremely disappointed with Inkscape committee. It's been a month since I'm not able to tell PacktPub *anything* concrete about their proposal. A PR person is not supposed to keep people waiting a whole damn month. Guys, what do you expect me to tell PacktPub? That decision makers in the project don't care about the project? That they don't actually make decisions per se? Do you understand that this is about reputation? I can stretch it a bit once again, but if this nonsense doesn't stop, I will step down as PR manager. Please forward to the rest of the committee.
Alexandre,
I have a huge amount of respect for you. I know you have done a tremendous amount of good for Inkscape and the whole OSS creative software ecosystem. You have always been very pleasant and helpful to me personally. Thank you.
Now, I've been pretty lax on reading the -dev and -user mailing lists for a good long time now. So I must have missed when you stepped up as PR manager. (Which is awesome, thanks again.) But hearing this, quite frankly, surprises me. (Yes, I've always seen you as the de facto PR man for all OSS creative software.) But whenever I have caught up the mailing lists I have found posts from you that seemed rather abrasive, not what I would expect from a PR person. This seems completely out of character to me. I don't ever remember you being like that when I was active in the Inkscape project. I don't know what happened. But I'm sorry if I had anything to do with it. And I hope things get better. Let's keep the communication going.
Aaron Spike
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 11:06:10AM -0700, Josh Andler wrote:
Hey Alexandre (& board),
I really think this is one of those tough issues regarding Packt and the project showing any form of favoritism in the name of financial gain vs something community based (not say that there's anything comparable, but saying that tends to be the preference). If I could get a copy of it (no I don't want to pay) to judge the quality, I could then feel comfortable with voting.
I didn't see the original proposal, I think. My mail was a little unreliable for a bit.
As for the board though, I do believe that at some point it was originally supposed to be term based. I think we should revisit this issue as there may be people on the board who are no longer actively involved with the project and are unresponsive. Additionally, there may also be some of our newer & more active contributors who might have different perspectives that could be beneficial.
I agree with this, my involvement with inkscape outside 2geom is minimal so I would be happy to hand the baton on to someone else. However, I am not sure what benefit removing people from the board will have, if the problem is people not getting or reading emails.
I feel that at least two people should definitely be given the opportunity to be on the board. Those people would be Johan & JazzyNico. According to ohloh.net (not perfect), but Johan is ranked as the #2 committer to the project behind only bulia and Nicolas is ranked #5 (4 commits away from being #4)... and yes, I realize that Nicolas also does translation work and maintenance, but I'm looking at commitment to the project. At some point I'd also want to extend offers to Felipe & Krzysztof as well, but that's for another day.
They are all excellent candidates for the board.
njh
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Nathan Hurst <njh@...19...> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 11:06:10AM -0700, Josh Andler wrote:
Hey Alexandre (& board),
I really think this is one of those tough issues regarding Packt and the project showing any form of favoritism in the name of financial gain vs something community based (not say that there's anything comparable, but saying that tends to be the preference). If I could get a copy of it (no
I
don't want to pay) to judge the quality, I could then feel comfortable
with
voting.
I didn't see the original proposal, I think. My mail was a little unreliable for a bit.
The original proposal was sent off-list to only myself and Ted. I admit that I dropped the ball by starring the message to deal with and not filtering my mail to see if I had anything marked important recently enough. I dropped it a second time when Alexandre followed up and told him I would email the board and subsequently forgot to as opposed to doing it right then. My bad, I own it. I do greatly regret it and am sorry for it Alexandre.
If you look back in this message thread you'll find that Alexandre ended up pasting in the original email within one of his messages.
As for the board though, I do believe that at some point it was
originally
supposed to be term based. I think we should revisit this issue as there
may
be people on the board who are no longer actively involved with the
project
and are unresponsive. Additionally, there may also be some of our newer & more active contributors who might have different perspectives that could
be
beneficial.
I agree with this, my involvement with inkscape outside 2geom is minimal so I would be happy to hand the baton on to someone else. However, I am not sure what benefit removing people from the board will have, if the problem is people not getting or reading emails.
Tied to 2geom, please look at the list archives as there was a recent thread I started which Krzysztof responded to which it would be useful to get your thoughts on. I agree that in the case of people not getting emails it would be absurd to remove people from the board. However, if outside of something like lack of net access, vacation, life being busy, family stuff, or whatever other things happen if it's actually a choice to not read emails it would show a lack of commitment (note, I'm explicitly saying in terms of selectively reading other emails and leaving board ones unread).
Also tied to 2geom and brought up on in the list message, if you'll give me the ability, I'd be more than happy to update the 2geom website to more accurately reflect the current state (launchpad vs sourceforge, bzr vs svn, etc).
Cheers, Josh
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 05:26:03PM -0700, Josh Andler wrote:
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Nathan Hurst <njh@...19...> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 11:06:10AM -0700, Josh Andler wrote:
Hey Alexandre (& board),
I really think this is one of those tough issues regarding Packt and the project showing any form of favoritism in the name of financial gain vs something community based (not say that there's anything comparable, but saying that tends to be the preference). If I could get a copy of it (no
I
don't want to pay) to judge the quality, I could then feel comfortable
with
voting.
I didn't see the original proposal, I think. My mail was a little unreliable for a bit.
The original proposal was sent off-list to only myself and Ted. I admit that I dropped the ball by starring the message to deal with and not filtering my mail to see if I had anything marked important recently enough. I dropped it a second time when Alexandre followed up and told him I would email the board and subsequently forgot to as opposed to doing it right then. My bad, I own it. I do greatly regret it and am sorry for it Alexandre.
If you look back in this message thread you'll find that Alexandre ended up pasting in the original email within one of his messages.
I agree with bryce for this. My extension is that I am happy to promote comercial inkscape related products on the website, but I would always give higher prominence to open source efforts. As long as we stay with our core goals of long term freedom, and avoid crass advretising, I think our users would appreciate any documentation available.
If they can feed money back into development efforts, even better. (Though how we spend our hoard has been even more contentious :)
Tied to 2geom, please look at the list archives as there was a recent thread I started which Krzysztof responded to which it would be useful to get your thoughts on.
I didn't get the one about admin privs. Of course they can. I would like to give all 2geom devels admin privs if sf.net would let me. I'm not particularly happy with sf's project management any more, perhaps we should look at github or something?
Also tied to 2geom and brought up on in the list message, if you'll give me the ability, I'd be more than happy to update the 2geom website to more accurately reflect the current state (launchpad vs sourceforge, bzr vs svn, etc).
Let's migrate away from sf.net unless there are objections? One reason I haven't done as much as I should, is that the cost of contributing in the small chunks of free + motivated time I've had, I've spent more time dealing with revision control problems than coding.
I vote for github.
njh
On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 12:41 AM, Nathan Hurst <njh@...19...> wrote:
Let's migrate away from sf.net unless there are objections? One reason I haven't done as much as I should, is that the cost of contributing in the small chunks of free + motivated time I've had, I've spent more time dealing with revision control problems than coding.
Given that the code has already been migrated over to launchpad and is using bzr, I just want to ask, do you really want to introduce a different dvcs for everyone? It's understandable if you have much better experiences with git vs bzr given the comment about dealing with revision control problems. I'm not voting since my commits are minimal and generally things like fixing builds on newer compilers.
As a side note, I've been thinking about moving the inkscape mailing lists over to launchpad as a post-release todo item to get Inkscape moved more away from sf.net.
Regarding distribution of releases, does anyone know if LP tracks stats and makes nice graphs or charts and could import that information from sf.net(relating to download information)?
Cheers, Josh
On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 11:10:52AM -0700, Josh Andler wrote:
As a side note, I've been thinking about moving the inkscape mailing lists over to launchpad as a post-release todo item to get Inkscape moved more away from sf.net.
Good idea.
The lists on launchpad are basically standard Mailman instances, with integration to LP teams. Thus, I think you may want to establish teams for each of the lists (which is basically what the original intent was anyway). I know we set up some lists which aren't really used much; you might consider proposing to roll those all back into the central list.
Regarding distribution of releases, does anyone know if LP tracks stats and makes nice graphs or charts and could import that information from sf.net(relating to download information)?
I seem to recall something about PPA download statistics being made available but never investigated it. But I haven't seen any charts or graphs like sf.net has. I'm pretty sure they don't have the mirrors set up for statistics gathering though.
Bryce
participants (4)
-
Aaron Spike -
Bryce Harrington -
Josh Andler -
Nathan Hurst