a

On 2/14/23 21:39, doctormo@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Chris,

The cards are really great and the stickers go so fast at all our events. Thanks for working on this hackfest task for us all.

...

Total incl shipping (up to) £337.87

Vote: A. Fund stickers and cards B. Do not fund stickers and cards

I vote A. _______________________________________________ Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org

My reading was that it was £30 to get the stickers to the person (René for example) and then a further £100 to move stickers and things the other people who couldn't attend in person and who should have a stash of stickers. Including sending some back to the SFC.

Although this was not completely clear, I admit, I think it's a reasonable read when it says "shipping stuff out to folks" (plural) it different from shipping to a single person.

Best Regards, Martin Owens

On Tue, 2023-02-14 at 18:39 -0600, Ted Gould wrote:

Hello,

I'm a bit confused as I don't think we have an events that we're planning on attending? Are there ones in the works that I don't know about?

Also, there is two charges for shipping? Why is it thirty pounds and a hundred pounds?

Ted

On Feb 14 2023, at 1:20 pm, C R cajhne@gmail.com wrote:

...

Hey everyone! We need moar stickers!

These are both for the hackfest stickers, and for the stickers for SFC and Inkscape reps attending conferences to hand out.

We'd also like another set of business cards with the hotkeys on the back. The SFC will be paying for these directly and shipping them out to Rene to distribute at the hackfest, so we need votes asap!

500 Cards: £44.47 2000 Inkscape Stickers: £133.40 1000 Hackfest Stickers: £30.00

Shipping: £30

Total: £237.87

Additional shipping may be required to send out hackfest stickers, so approval for up to £100.00 extra to reimburse for shipping stuff out to folks.

Total incl shipping (up to) £337.87

Vote: A. Fund stickers and cards B. Do not fund stickers and cards

Thanks! -C

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I vote A as well. That's a majority, so we should be good to go for Stickers + Shipping costs. (Doc was correct about the Shipping).

Thanks everyone! -C

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 11:21 AM tavmjong@free.fr wrote:

I vote A.

Tav

----- Original Message ----- | From: "C R" cajhne@gmail.com | To: "Inkscape Board" inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org | Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 8:20:15 PM | Subject: [Inkscape-board] URGENT VOTE: INKSCAPE STICKERS & BUSINESS CARDS for Hackfest (and other events). | | | | Hey everyone! We need moar stickers! | | | These are both for the hackfest stickers, and for the stickers for | SFC and Inkscape reps attending conferences to hand out. | | | We'd also like another set of business cards with the hotkeys on the | back. | The SFC will be paying for these directly and shipping them out to | Rene to distribute at the hackfest, so we need votes asap! | | | | | 500 Cards: £44.47 | 2000 Inkscape Stickers: £ 133.40 | 1000 Hackfest Stickers: £30.00 | | | Shipping: £30 | | | Total: £237.87 | | | Additional shipping may be required to send out hackfest stickers, so | approval for up to £100.00 extra to reimburse for shipping stuff out | to folks. | | | Total incl shipping (up to) £337.87 | | | Vote: | A. Fund stickers and cards | B. Do not fund stickers and cards | | | | | Thanks! | -C | | | _______________________________________________ | Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- | inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org | To unsubscribe send an email to | inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org |

Who are you accusing of being corrupt in this instance? Also, why are you trying to hold up this vote, when we need to print stickers now to get them for the Hackfest? If you want a specific policy for this, please bring it to another vote. We're in a hurry here. :P

-C

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 2:47 PM Ted Gould ted@gould.cx wrote:

On Feb 15 2023, at 8:06 am, C R cajhne@gmail.com wrote:

That's a majority, so we should be good to go for Stickers + Shipping costs. (Doc was correct about the Shipping).

Votes are a week.

people who couldn't attend in person and who should have a stashof stickers. Including sending some back to the SFC.

Who should have a stash of stickers? How are those people chosen? Friends of Rene? (sarcastic, but really?) Also, we just funded a bunch of stickers for the SFC which they haven't used all of, why are we sending them more?

It is important to set a policy on how things are handled like this, otherwise those who don't hang out with a person administering a program know that they can ask for them and should get them. It just becomes corrupt otherwise.

Ted

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On Feb 15 2023, at 8:50 am, C R cajhne@gmail.com wrote:

Who are you accusing of being corrupt in this instance?

I would say that an action is corrupt when it involves little transparent oversight and incomplete information about what it is doing. Or when those rules are selective to one group of people. Also, a sign of corruption for me would be when votes are manipulated through peer pressure or general cajoling. Any referendum can only be evaluated on the information in the referendum. So statements like "please take your issues up with them" and "you haven't been a part of the conversation" are just invalid. No one should ever be encouraged to vote on something they don't understand or be discouraged from asking questions. That would be a bad culture to have. Ted

So what's it going to be, Ted? Going to vote "no" and let the vote continue, or just continue your filibustering tactics and deny everyone stickers for the hackfest? Let me know so I can order stickers myself for people.

-C

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 8:59 PM C R cajhne@gmail.com wrote:

Whatever, Ted. If you can't be bothered to be part of the conversation, then don't vote. We're not required to update you on every single detail. The vote is pro or con providing stickers that people have asked for. I have no idea why this needs to be complicated when we need to order them now.

Also, for someone who clearly doesn't like "deft political moves", you sure do seem to want to make your own by blocking the majority here.

You do you, though. -C

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 7:40 PM Ted Gould ted@gould.cx wrote:

...

On Feb 15 2023, at 8:50 am, C R cajhne@gmail.com wrote:

Who are you accusing of being corrupt in this instance?

I would say that an action is corrupt when it involves little transparent oversight and incomplete information about what it is doing. Or when those rules are selective to one group of people. Also, a sign of corruption for me would be when votes are manipulated through peer pressure or general cajoling.

Any referendum can only be evaluated on the information in the referendum. So statements like "please take your issues up with them" and "you haven't been a part of the conversation" are just invalid.

No one should ever be encouraged to vote on something they don't understand or be discouraged from asking questions. That would be a bad culture to have.

Ted

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Hi Pono. Thanks for trying to throw some oil on troubled waters, but this is an ongoing pattern of unreasonable behaviour by a PLC member. I understand the rules, but asking that the timeline be shortened on this occasion I believe was a reasonable ask. Which no one in the vote so far deems unreasonable except apparently Ted. He's not cooperating by giving a yes/no A/B vote. He's refusing to cooperate - This is not in good faith.

The purpose of this vote was/is to approve printing the next round of stickers under the same terms as we have always approved the purchase of stickers: because people want them to hand out. Trying to dictate policy based on personal feelings is not in the spirit of this project, nor is demanding that new conversations on policy be brought up in the middle of a vote that needs urgent approval/denial - votes from everyone. People who don't participate in discussions around such things should not sit on the PLC and try to dictate how those things are approved.

The project ethos has always been - You volunteer to do the thing and you do it well, you own it and it becomes your responsibility in the project. Ted wants a project where he does not contribute, neither code, nor stickers, does not come to dev meetings, does not even bother to read the PLC conversation, yet still insists on trying to dictate policy for paying developers and even (apparently) who gets stickers and who doesn't.

I'm sorry, no. That's not how the project works. It's not how it's ever worked, and it's certainly not in the interests of the project going forward.

-C

On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 3:40 PM Daniel Pono Takamori pono@sfconservancy.org wrote:

Hey all,

Sorry for the top posting but thought it could help change the course of the conversation a bit.

Given that this vote was a bit rushed and conversations happened in the PLC channel that everyone might not have had a chance to read, I thought it would help to talk about it a bit.

I mentioned in channel that the stickers were so popular at FOSDEM that we need more (good problem to have!). Since there was a large order coming in for the Hackfest, it makes financial sense to tack on some extra stickers to get a discount on bulk pricing. As a vote of convenience, these were combined into this single vote.

The questions around context for a vote are important, and while I feel the tone wasn't ideal for a discussion about the issue at hand and the policies at play, it's good that there's so much passion for the Inkscape community amongst the PLC members :)

I'd just like to remind everyone that we all have different approaches to conversation and discussion. We all want to build and grow the Inkscape community, and there are different priorities, scopes and decision rubrics that we use varyingly at different times to achieve these shared goals.

The prompt nature of needing the shipping seems to have escalated tensions, so I'd just like to take this opportunity to clear the air and ask everyone to take a moment to reflect on the above.

Thanks for all your hard work and incredible passion for Inkscape! -Pono

On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 07:20:15PM +0000, C R wrote:

...

Hey everyone! We need moar stickers!

These are both for the hackfest stickers, and for the stickers for SFC

and

...

Inkscape reps attending conferences to hand out.

We'd also like another set of business cards with the hotkeys on the

back.

...

The SFC will be paying for these directly and shipping them out to Rene

to

...

distribute at the hackfest, so we need votes asap!

500 Cards: £44.47 2000 Inkscape Stickers: £133.40 1000 Hackfest Stickers: £30.00

Shipping: £30

Total: £237.87

Additional shipping may be required to send out hackfest stickers, so approval for up to £100.00 extra to reimburse for shipping stuff out to folks.

Total incl shipping (up to) £337.87

Vote: A. Fund stickers and cards B. Do not fund stickers and cards

Thanks! -C

...

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inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org

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Orders for stickers and business cards have been placed. Will update Rene with the shipping info when I receive it.

Have a good weekend all! -Pono

On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 07:54:46PM +0000, C R wrote:

All votes are now in, the resolution passes. Thanks everyone!

-C