Hi guys,
I wonder to know if you have a mid term plan to add animation support on inkscape (with a nice GUI and all that stuff...). I you do, are you planning to use SMIL or DOM manipulation script ?
I saw on your wiki some pages related to animation support but they are all old and do not seems updated.
If you don't have time to work on it, could you consider launching an indigogo or kickstarter campaign to raise some funds. I am sure many people will give you money to give that support.
In my opinion with HTML5 / CSS3, modern browser, video support and inkscape, animation support in inkscape is the only key missing to be able te replace PowerPoint.
I except to see many software based on SVG+animation emerge in the next few years with the HTML5 explosion. It will be sad to see a new proprietary software emerging and becoming the standard in SVG animation.
Best,
-- HadiM
On Wed, 2013-11-27 at 00:04 +0100, HadiM wrote:
If you don't have time to work on it, could you consider launching an indigogo or kickstarter campaign to raise some funds. I am sure many people will give you money to give that support.
Hey HadiM,
I would support a kickstart campaign; and this is what I think is needed to get that done:
1) Get support from at least three inkscape super-admins 2) Get Support from a majority of active developers to commit to a social agreement not to get mad about fellow developers getting paid. (it seems silly, but it would be helpful to have that as a consensus) 3) Get the Support of Software Freedom Conservancy; they'd probably be the ones handling the money after all. 4) Dedicate your time HadiM to being the Kickstarter guy; because Kickstarter campaigns are a lot of work and that work should be done by a person like yourself who is enthusiastic about it. 5) Find the person, people or company who should be paid to deliver the work. Agree all the fundamentals beforehand like any contract work. 6) Figure out some good rewards for the backers (apart from the software deliverable) 7) Prepare some stretch goals (just in case) 8) Advertise and partner to with a bunch of different people. FSF, deviantArt, FSM, anyone that will.
This is a bit of a list, but don't feel shy from working through the items and unblocking it. We're all rooting for active users who want to help organise and advocate for Inkscape as much as for developers to make this project great.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
You should also get in touch with Dick Bulterman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Bulterman) who has a steady stream of phd students working on SMIL and would love to see greater adoption.
njh
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:37:44PM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
On Wed, 2013-11-27 at 00:04 +0100, HadiM wrote:
If you don't have time to work on it, could you consider launching an indigogo or kickstarter campaign to raise some funds. I am sure many people will give you money to give that support.
Hey HadiM,
I would support a kickstart campaign; and this is what I think is needed to get that done:
- Get support from at least three inkscape super-admins
- Get Support from a majority of active developers to commit to a
social agreement not to get mad about fellow developers getting paid. (it seems silly, but it would be helpful to have that as a consensus) 3) Get the Support of Software Freedom Conservancy; they'd probably be the ones handling the money after all. 4) Dedicate your time HadiM to being the Kickstarter guy; because Kickstarter campaigns are a lot of work and that work should be done by a person like yourself who is enthusiastic about it. 5) Find the person, people or company who should be paid to deliver the work. Agree all the fundamentals beforehand like any contract work. 6) Figure out some good rewards for the backers (apart from the software deliverable) 7) Prepare some stretch goals (just in case) 8) Advertise and partner to with a bunch of different people. FSF, deviantArt, FSM, anyone that will.
This is a bit of a list, but don't feel shy from working through the items and unblocking it. We're all rooting for active users who want to help organise and advocate for Inkscape as much as for developers to make this project great.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349351&iu=/4140/ostg.clk... _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Hi guys,
I really would like to make that happen but it's really not my thing to do that and overall I am doing my phd right now so I have absolutly no time... Sorry !
But I would love to help and contribute in any kind of project you could start.
Best, Le 27 nov. 2013 05:19, "Nathan Hurst" <njh@...1927...> a écrit :
You should also get in touch with Dick Bulterman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Bulterman) who has a steady stream of phd students working on SMIL and would love to see greater adoption.
njh
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:37:44PM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
On Wed, 2013-11-27 at 00:04 +0100, HadiM wrote:
If you don't have time to work on it, could you consider launching an indigogo or kickstarter campaign to raise some funds. I am sure many people will give you money to give that support.
Hey HadiM,
I would support a kickstart campaign; and this is what I think is needed to get that done:
- Get support from at least three inkscape super-admins
- Get Support from a majority of active developers to commit to a
social agreement not to get mad about fellow developers getting paid. (it seems silly, but it would be helpful to have that as a consensus) 3) Get the Support of Software Freedom Conservancy; they'd probably be the ones handling the money after all. 4) Dedicate your time HadiM to being the Kickstarter guy; because Kickstarter campaigns are a lot of work and that work should be done by a person like yourself who is enthusiastic about it. 5) Find the person, people or company who should be paid to deliver the work. Agree all the fundamentals beforehand like any contract work. 6) Figure out some good rewards for the backers (apart from the software deliverable) 7) Prepare some stretch goals (just in case) 8) Advertise and partner to with a bunch of different people. FSF, deviantArt, FSM, anyone that will.
This is a bit of a list, but don't feel shy from working through the items and unblocking it. We're all rooting for active users who want to help organise and advocate for Inkscape as much as for developers to make this project great.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into
your
Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of
AppDynamics Pro!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349351&iu=/4140/ostg.clk...
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Hello everyone,
I tried to raise this discussion when we were doing the apngasm campaign. Personally I feel there is a great need for base libraries to deal with SMIL initially (so that SMIL can be parsed and rendered out to surfaces/canvases), then building tools into inkscape to manipulate SMIL would be next. There are some excellent mock-ups of how this could work already. Unfortunately we [Genshin] do not have the developer resources or cash or even the proper base knowledge to implement this on our own - we would need core members of the inkscape team to work on it. If there is to be a kickstarter campaign I would love to help out in making and managing the campaign but I don't want to run anything for this through my kickstarter account - one of the lead developers should do this.
We would very much like something like this to exist. Please don't let this conversation die out again.
-Rei
2013/11/27 HadiM <marelo64@...400...>
Hi guys,
I really would like to make that happen but it's really not my thing to do that and overall I am doing my phd right now so I have absolutly no time... Sorry !
But I would love to help and contribute in any kind of project you could start.
Best, Le 27 nov. 2013 05:19, "Nathan Hurst" <njh@...1927...> a écrit :
You should also get in touch with Dick Bulterman
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Bulterman) who has a steady stream of phd students working on SMIL and would love to see greater adoption.
njh
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:37:44PM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
On Wed, 2013-11-27 at 00:04 +0100, HadiM wrote:
If you don't have time to work on it, could you consider launching an indigogo or kickstarter campaign to raise some funds. I am sure many people will give you money to give that support.
Hey HadiM,
I would support a kickstart campaign; and this is what I think is needed to get that done:
- Get support from at least three inkscape super-admins
- Get Support from a majority of active developers to commit to a
social agreement not to get mad about fellow developers getting paid. (it seems silly, but it would be helpful to have that as a consensus) 3) Get the Support of Software Freedom Conservancy; they'd probably be the ones handling the money after all. 4) Dedicate your time HadiM to being the Kickstarter guy; because Kickstarter campaigns are a lot of work and that work should be done by a person like yourself who is enthusiastic about it. 5) Find the person, people or company who should be paid to deliver the work. Agree all the fundamentals beforehand like any contract work. 6) Figure out some good rewards for the backers (apart from the software deliverable) 7) Prepare some stretch goals (just in case) 8) Advertise and partner to with a bunch of different people. FSF, deviantArt, FSM, anyone that will.
This is a bit of a list, but don't feel shy from working through the items and unblocking it. We're all rooting for active users who want to help organise and advocate for Inkscape as much as for developers to make this project great.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into
your
Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of
AppDynamics Pro!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349351&iu=/4140/ostg.clk...
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349351&iu=/4140/ostg.clk... _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Hi,
As I already said I don't have time and neither knowledge to lead this kind of campaignn but I will be happy to contribute for anything.
Before everything else, I would like to share some points/questions with you about SMIL. In a long term view how do you see evolve canvas againt svg ? Do you think one will be prefered from the other ? Or maybe both exists for different purpose (bitmap / vector) and then both can easly co exist ?
Now about SMIL itself: do you think SMIL is well designed enough to give the same flexibility than SVG manipulation with javascript ? Is there is any way to "add" some logic/scripts in SMIL ? Can both exist on the same time ? For example I want to give a square a translation movement to the right so I do it with SMIL because it is easy and then over the translation I would like to add some oscillations (or whatever which need some math to be done), so I wrote a small script which can then be added over SMIL.
I don't know if I am clear and neither if my questions make sense or not (I am far to be svg / SMIL expert).
So Rei, if any of the Inkscape devs open a kickstarter account, you could handle and lead the campaign (under the supervision of inkscape team) ?
I could do some communications on french website about the campagin. For example I am pretty sure I could convince a very influent french blogger called Korben (http://korben.info/, https://twitter.com/korben) to talk about it on his website. He has a very high frequentation which could bring some contributors and he is very sensitive to open source project. (without joking this guy can provoke ddos attack only posting a link on twitter).
Best
-- HadiM
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:18 AM, 影月 零 <kagetsuki@...233.....400...> wrote:
Hello everyone,
I tried to raise this discussion when we were doing the apngasm campaign. Personally I feel there is a great need for base libraries to deal with SMIL initially (so that SMIL can be parsed and rendered out to surfaces/canvases), then building tools into inkscape to manipulate SMIL would be next. There are some excellent mock-ups of how this could work already. Unfortunately we [Genshin] do not have the developer resources or cash or even the proper base knowledge to implement this on our own - we would need core members of the inkscape team to work on it. If there is to be a kickstarter campaign I would love to help out in making and managing the campaign but I don't want to run anything for this through my kickstarter account - one of the lead developers should do this.
We would very much like something like this to exist. Please don't let this conversation die out again.
-Rei
2013/11/27 HadiM <marelo64@...400...>
Hi guys,
I really would like to make that happen but it's really not my thing to do that and overall I am doing my phd right now so I have absolutly no time... Sorry !
But I would love to help and contribute in any kind of project you could start.
Best, Le 27 nov. 2013 05:19, "Nathan Hurst" <njh@...1927...> a écrit :
You should also get in touch with Dick Bulterman
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Bulterman) who has a steady stream of phd students working on SMIL and would love to see greater adoption.
njh
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:37:44PM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
On Wed, 2013-11-27 at 00:04 +0100, HadiM wrote:
If you don't have time to work on it, could you consider launching an indigogo or kickstarter campaign to raise some funds. I am sure many people will give you money to give that support.
Hey HadiM,
I would support a kickstart campaign; and this is what I think is
needed
to get that done:
- Get support from at least three inkscape super-admins
- Get Support from a majority of active developers to commit to a
social agreement not to get mad about fellow developers getting paid. (it seems silly, but it would be helpful to have that as a consensus) 3) Get the Support of Software Freedom Conservancy; they'd probably be the ones handling the money after all. 4) Dedicate your time HadiM to being the Kickstarter guy; because Kickstarter campaigns are a lot of work and that work should be done by a person like yourself who is enthusiastic about it. 5) Find the person, people or company who should be paid to deliver
the
work. Agree all the fundamentals beforehand like any contract work. 6) Figure out some good rewards for the backers (apart from the software deliverable) 7) Prepare some stretch goals (just in case) 8) Advertise and partner to with a bunch of different people. FSF, deviantArt, FSM, anyone that will.
This is a bit of a list, but don't feel shy from working through the items and unblocking it. We're all rooting for active users who want to help organise and advocate for Inkscape as much as for developers to make this project great.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into
your
Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of
AppDynamics Pro!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349351&iu=/4140/ostg.clk...
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349351&iu=/4140/ostg.clk... _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
HadiM,
SMIL is specifically for animation and it's the only standard I know of that is: 1. Already supported and implemented in browsers/players 2. Well outlined and complete
An SVG can include both SMIL and JavaScript and actually quite a few other things embedded into it. Displaying on a surface/canvas is only an issue of being able to parse the SVG and SMIL data; and by canvas/surface I'm referring to say a canvas/surface inside a graphics engine or library not an HTML5 canvas. If you can render to a surface you can just cut the animation into frames, render each frame onto a surface in frame array in ImageMagick or the like and save that as a bit-mapped format like APNG or WebP.
As for the kickstarter campaign I have enough experience now and enough contacts I'm sure I could help pull off a campaign for this but I really do not want the responsibility/accountability for this. I will help in any way I can because I really want to see this but unless I can get solid promises and confidence some experienced SVG/InkScape developers can handle 100% of the dev work I really don't want to be put in a position of responsibility. To start a campaign you'll also need someone with a proper bank account and having the account under a shared e-mail will most certainly not work. If someone is willing to take the lead here and be responsible for the project and kicstarter campaign just say so and I'll contact them directly and help get things started and moving along.
-Rei
2013/11/29 HadiM <marelo64@...400...>
Hi,
As I already said I don't have time and neither knowledge to lead this kind of campaignn but I will be happy to contribute for anything.
Before everything else, I would like to share some points/questions with you about SMIL. In a long term view how do you see evolve canvas againt svg ? Do you think one will be prefered from the other ? Or maybe both exists for different purpose (bitmap / vector) and then both can easly co exist ?
Now about SMIL itself: do you think SMIL is well designed enough to give the same flexibility than SVG manipulation with javascript ? Is there is any way to "add" some logic/scripts in SMIL ? Can both exist on the same time ? For example I want to give a square a translation movement to the right so I do it with SMIL because it is easy and then over the translation I would like to add some oscillations (or whatever which need some math to be done), so I wrote a small script which can then be added over SMIL.
I don't know if I am clear and neither if my questions make sense or not (I am far to be svg / SMIL expert).
So Rei, if any of the Inkscape devs open a kickstarter account, you could handle and lead the campaign (under the supervision of inkscape team) ?
I could do some communications on french website about the campagin. For example I am pretty sure I could convince a very influent french blogger called Korben (http://korben.info/, https://twitter.com/korben) to talk about it on his website. He has a very high frequentation which could bring some contributors and he is very sensitive to open source project. (without joking this guy can provoke ddos attack only posting a link on twitter).
Best
-- HadiM
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:18 AM, 影月 零 <kagetsuki@...400...> wrote:
Hello everyone,
I tried to raise this discussion when we were doing the apngasm campaign. Personally I feel there is a great need for base libraries to deal with SMIL initially (so that SMIL can be parsed and rendered out to surfaces/canvases), then building tools into inkscape to manipulate SMIL would be next. There are some excellent mock-ups of how this could work already. Unfortunately we [Genshin] do not have the developer resources or cash or even the proper base knowledge to implement this on our own - we would need core members of the inkscape team to work on it. If there is to be a kickstarter campaign I would love to help out in making and managing the campaign but I don't want to run anything for this through my kickstarter account - one of the lead developers should do this.
We would very much like something like this to exist. Please don't let this conversation die out again.
-Rei
2013/11/27 HadiM <marelo64@...400...>
Hi guys,
I really would like to make that happen but it's really not my thing to do that and overall I am doing my phd right now so I have absolutly no time... Sorry !
But I would love to help and contribute in any kind of project you could start.
Best, Le 27 nov. 2013 05:19, "Nathan Hurst" <njh@...1927...> a écrit :
You should also get in touch with Dick Bulterman
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Bulterman) who has a steady stream of phd students working on SMIL and would love to see greater adoption.
njh
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:37:44PM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
On Wed, 2013-11-27 at 00:04 +0100, HadiM wrote:
If you don't have time to work on it, could you consider launching
an
indigogo or kickstarter campaign to raise some funds. I am sure many people will give you money to give that support.
Hey HadiM,
I would support a kickstart campaign; and this is what I think is
needed
to get that done:
- Get support from at least three inkscape super-admins
- Get Support from a majority of active developers to commit to a
social agreement not to get mad about fellow developers getting paid. (it seems silly, but it would be helpful to have that as a consensus) 3) Get the Support of Software Freedom Conservancy; they'd probably
be
the ones handling the money after all. 4) Dedicate your time HadiM to being the Kickstarter guy; because Kickstarter campaigns are a lot of work and that work should be done
by
a person like yourself who is enthusiastic about it. 5) Find the person, people or company who should be paid to deliver
the
work. Agree all the fundamentals beforehand like any contract work. 6) Figure out some good rewards for the backers (apart from the software deliverable) 7) Prepare some stretch goals (just in case) 8) Advertise and partner to with a bunch of different people. FSF, deviantArt, FSM, anyone that will.
This is a bit of a list, but don't feel shy from working through the items and unblocking it. We're all rooting for active users who want
to
help organise and advocate for Inkscape as much as for developers to make this project great.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most
IT
organizations don't have a clear picture of how application
performance
affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into
your
Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of
AppDynamics Pro!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349351&iu=/4140/ostg.clk...
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349351&iu=/4140/ostg.clk... _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Inkscape needs leadership.
Where are you leaders and why have you forsaken us?
Martin,
On Sat, 2013-11-30 at 13:41 +0900, 影月 零 wrote:
As for the kickstarter campaign I have enough experience now and enough contacts I'm sure I could help pull off a campaign for this but I really do not want the responsibility/accountability for this. I will help in any way I can because I really want to see this but unless I can get solid promises and confidence some experienced SVG/InkScape developers can handle 100% of the dev work I really don't want to be put in a position of responsibility. To start a campaign you'll also need someone with a proper bank account and having the account under a shared e-mail will most certainly not work. If someone is willing to take the lead here and be responsible for the project and kicstarter campaign just say so and I'll contact them directly and help get things started and moving along.
On Sat, 2013-11-30 at 18:23 +1100, Nathan Hurst wrote:
Inkscape has always been led by people willing to lead. The solution is simple - be the leader you want.
Oh I know that. I think I was being too cryptic. Sorry.
I mean to say...
Structure of authority can impart a sense of trust and legitimacy. When one's organisation has no leadership, there is not a vacuum that sucks people into useful positions but a barrier that suggests the responsible people aren't available.
The reluctance for individuals to become leaders is because leadership is required in order to foster leadership.
If say someone was to inquire about working on the inkscape website. My privileged position means that without my leadership that someone would be somewhat disadvantaged. Firstly because they wouldn't have server access and would have to route around me, and secondly because my existence is a social barrier that /I/ have to pull people up over or get out of the way (as they say). Not everyone is arrogant enough to plow right through social barriers.[1]
Thus; if leadership exists (and in inkscape, it does) then it must lead. Even if only a little bit to recruit confidence in others so /others/ can make decisions socially safely.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
[1] And do you really want a project dominated by that kind of person?
On 30-11-2013 5:41, 影月 零 wrote:
As for the kickstarter campaign I have enough experience now and enough contacts I'm sure I could help pull off a campaign for this but I really do not want the responsibility/accountability for this. I will help in any way I can because I really want to see this but unless I can get solid promises and confidence some experienced SVG/InkScape developers can handle 100% of the dev work I really don't want to be put in a position of responsibility. To start a campaign you'll also need someone with a proper bank account and having the account under a shared e-mail will most certainly not work. If someone is willing to take the lead here and be responsible for the project and kicstarter campaign just say so and I'll contact them directly and help get things started and moving along.
Thank you for your offer to help, Rei. I agree with your points and think it is (way) too early to discuss fundraising for SMIL support.
Raising funds for a particular project is a very serious matter. I don't like that the discussion is about Kickstarter, because I have not seen any technical plans being discussed. Using any fundraising (with Kickstarter or something else) should be the last thing to discuss, not the first.
regards, Johan
On Fri, 2013-11-29 at 18:18 +0900, 影月 零 wrote:
If there is to be a kickstarter campaign I would love to help out in making and managing the campaign but I don't want to run anything for this through my kickstarter account - one of the lead developers should do this.
I think you're saying that a normal person is not authoritative enough to give contributors enough trust that this would be an official fundraising campaign?
I've created a kickstarter account for inkscape:
http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/inkscape
I've set the email address to this list (I know, mad) when we have a better email address, it can be changed. Please email me if you want the password to the account.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On 29-11-2013 13:40, Martin Owens wrote:
On Fri, 2013-11-29 at 18:18 +0900, 影月 零 wrote:
If there is to be a kickstarter campaign I would love to help out in making and managing the campaign but I don't want to run anything for this through my kickstarter account - one of the lead developers should do this.
I think you're saying that a normal person is not authoritative enough to give contributors enough trust that this would be an official fundraising campaign?
I've created a kickstarter account for inkscape:
Do you see another use of this Kickstarter profile right now, other than a placeholder? I am not aware of any serious plans to use that Kickstarter page for.
Note that the name "inkscape" makes it look like an official effort, and as such it should be coordinated with our board.
regards, Johan
On Sat, 2013-11-30 at 16:05 +0100, Johan Engelen wrote:
Do you see another use of this Kickstarter profile right now, other than a placeholder? I am not aware of any serious plans to use that Kickstarter page for.
This page is simple encouragement to help get things moving, it's not a commitment and we've not started asking people for money.
Note that the name "inkscape" makes it look like an official effort, and as such it should be coordinated with our board.
It is official, I think that's the point of this whole 'leadership' discussion isn't it. I made it to be official and I know you guys want keys and things to keep things safe.
But.
Damn the inkscape board.
Can't you all manage to be a positive leaders, figuring out the next steps and enabling your project's members to get things done? I'm tired of hearing what we can't or shouldn't do. I want to hear what we should do next and where the best place to go is.
Try it, see if it works, fail if you like, but at least try.
And Damn the inkscape board. Absent and distracted by real jobs and responsibilities. Guys stop being jerks and do something. Start something. Run something. I'm sick of waiting for you guys to stop thinking this project is a coding problem and start understanding inkscape has a social problem.
Martin,
Is bad not speak inklish well :( I need to go again to duolingo Martin.
Regards to all making inkscape fly.
El sáb, 30-11-2013 a las 10:52 -0500, Martin Owens escribió:
On Sat, 2013-11-30 at 16:05 +0100, Johan Engelen wrote:
Do you see another use of this Kickstarter profile right now, other than a placeholder? I am not aware of any serious plans to use that Kickstarter page for.
This page is simple encouragement to help get things moving, it's not a commitment and we've not started asking people for money.
Note that the name "inkscape" makes it look like an official effort, and as such it should be coordinated with our board.
It is official, I think that's the point of this whole 'leadership' discussion isn't it. I made it to be official and I know you guys want keys and things to keep things safe.
But.
Damn the inkscape board.
Can't you all manage to be a positive leaders, figuring out the next steps and enabling your project's members to get things done? I'm tired of hearing what we can't or shouldn't do. I want to hear what we should do next and where the best place to go is.
Try it, see if it works, fail if you like, but at least try.
And Damn the inkscape board. Absent and distracted by real jobs and responsibilities. Guys stop being jerks and do something. Start something. Run something. I'm sick of waiting for you guys to stop thinking this project is a coding problem and start understanding inkscape has a social problem.
Martin,
Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349351&iu=/4140/ostg.clk... _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Let's keep these discussions to a civil level of discourse. The board may be doing a good job or a bad job, but in either case this is not the way to have a discussion. There are some exciting things being discussed in this thread, that I hope will result in remarkable successes. But legally the board does have to have some engagement with this before the money will be made available for the effort, so it's in all of our interests if these discussions remain constructive. I'm sure no personal insults were meant, but keep in mind the board is made up of entirely of inkscape developers who volunteer for the board work.
It's true that many of the board members have jobs and families and other things that distract them. You're welcome to direct your ire and frustrations at me; I think I'm the most flaky member, and certainly am not setting that good of an example. But honestly, such is reality with fully volunteer driven projects, and patient persistence is really the only viable strategy.
Bryce
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 10:52:33AM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
On Sat, 2013-11-30 at 16:05 +0100, Johan Engelen wrote:
Note that the name "inkscape" makes it look like an official effort, and as such it should be coordinated with our board.
It is official, I think that's the point of this whole 'leadership' discussion isn't it. I made it to be official and I know you guys want keys and things to keep things safe.
But.
Damn the inkscape board.
Can't you all manage to be a positive leaders, figuring out the next steps and enabling your project's members to get things done? I'm tired of hearing what we can't or shouldn't do. I want to hear what we should do next and where the best place to go is.
Try it, see if it works, fail if you like, but at least try.
And Damn the inkscape board. Absent and distracted by real jobs and responsibilities. Guys stop being jerks and do something. Start something. Run something. I'm sick of waiting for you guys to stop thinking this project is a coding problem and start understanding inkscape has a social problem.
Martin,
Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349351&iu=/4140/ostg.clk... _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Bryce Harrington <bryce@...961...> wrote:
Let's keep these discussions to a civil level of discourse.
Another request in the interest of better communication. If people could please try to refrain from using sarcasm, it does tend to help keep conversations more universally understood and productive.
Cheers, Josh
Sorry to be dense, but ...
SMIL is multimedia - any kind of multimedia, including still images, sound, and animation, and transitions between any of these.
Inkscape is a 2D drawing program that among other things renders SVG.
What are you all trying to accomplish here? Is the goal to get Inkscape to render SMIL, complete with fades, sounds, and embedded movies, or is it to make Inkscape more SMIL friendly, so that it can be used from within SMIL to render those sorts of objects it already supports? Or something else entirely?
For instance, and this really doesn't have to apply to just SMIL, I can imagine extensions for inkscape that would aid in creating animations: given drawing A and drawing F, interpolate in steps the sizes, positions, and orientations of all objects to fill in intervening drawings B,C,D,E. Most likely that wouldn't be adequate, and some sort of trajectories would have to be used, and different trajectories would be applied to groups of objects. But that isn't very complicated, it is just the automated stepwise application of a transform to existing elements, and it does not require adding an explicit time value to objects. However, for Inkscape to do anything much with SMIL it would seem like it would have to go from (x,y) to (x,y,t) for pretty much every visible object, and that seems like a pretty major change to make for what may be a niche application.
Regards,
David Mathog mathog@...1176... Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech
Hello mathog,
Monday, December 2, 2013, 6:29:44 PM, you wrote:
Sorry to be dense, but ...
SMIL is multimedia - any kind of multimedia, including still images, sound, and animation, and transitions between any of these.
Yes, it is. Two parts of that, SMIL animation and SMIL Timing, were integrated into SVG 1.0 and are used in SVG independent of all the other parts of SMIL.
Inkscape is a 2D drawing program that among other things renders SVG.
Well, it is a 2D drawing program that uses a superset of SVG as its native format (which is a big difference from some other format which is merely exported on demand).
What are you all trying to accomplish here? Is the goal to get Inkscape to render SMIL, complete with fades, sounds, and embedded movies,
No
or is it to make Inkscape more SMIL friendly, so that it can be used from within SMIL to render those sorts of objects it already supports?
No
Or something else entirely?
Something else entirely - supporting the SVG use of SMIL animation and timing which has been in SVG ever since version 1.0 in 1998.
However, for Inkscape to do anything much with SMIL it would seem like it would have to go from (x,y) to (x,y,t) for pretty much every visible object, and that seems like a pretty major change to make for what may be a niche application.
It is indeed a fairly major change. Its certainly not niche. Outside of print, interactive dynamic vector graphics are just as common as static ones. The lack of a good visual authoring tool for creating animated SVG is frequently cited as a major drawback.
On 02-Dec-2013 11:06, Chris Lilley wrote:
Something else entirely - supporting the SVG use of SMIL animation and timing which has been in SVG ever since version 1.0 in 1998.
However, for Inkscape to do anything much with SMIL it would seem like it would have to go from (x,y) to (x,y,t) for pretty much every visible object, and that seems like a pretty major change to make for what may be a niche application.
It is indeed a fairly major change. Its certainly not niche. Outside of print, interactive dynamic vector graphics are just as common as static ones. The lack of a good visual authoring tool for creating animated SVG is frequently cited as a major drawback.
Ah, I think I see what you want.
First you want Inkscape to support these tags:
<set> <animate> <animateMotion> <animateColor> <animateTransform>
The standard apparently allows every object to have its own animation properties running on its own clock. Supporting the rendering of that in Inkscape is going to be extremely hard to get right. Inkscape is not super fast at drawing complex things and I suspect it wouldn't take a very complicated set of animation commands before it could not keep up. (Not that I expect the browsers are going to be able to keep up with super complicated animated SVG's either.) Conversely, if Inkscape had a a single "master time" setting (slider?), it would certainly be able to render for any collection of tags like this
<animate attributeName="cx" from="0" to="100" dur="10s" repeatCount="indefinite" />
how the drawing would look in a compliant browser at 2.2 seconds. That would let inkscape produce and edit this sort of animation, just not display it in real time.
So you probably also want Inkscape to be able to render one of these animations to other animated formats from the command line like:
inkscape -z \ --time-start=0.0 --time-end=10.0 --time-int=0.1 \ --export-width=640 --export-height=480 \ --export-animated-gif=result.gif animated.svg
Is that about right?
Regards,
David Mathog mathog@...1176... Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech
On Mon, Dec 02, 2013 at 09:29:44AM -0800, mathog wrote:
objects. However, for Inkscape to do anything much with SMIL it would seem like it would have to go from (x,y) to (x,y,t) for pretty much every visible object, and that seems like a pretty major change to make for what may be a niche application.
Probably a similar amount of work as supporting %, px, inch units in a single document correctly.
njh
participants (10)
-
Bryce Harrington -
Chris Lilley -
HadiM -
Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz -
Johan Engelen -
Josh Andler -
Martin Owens -
mathog -
Nathan Hurst -
影月 零