Dear devs,
I've had some complaints that Inkscape's default palette isn't that welcoming to new users. It's too harsh and varied. A number of users have asked me personally why we don't use the Tango palette as our default palette and move Inkscape default to a new name.
I don't actually know which palette would be the best to have as the default. Would a poll be a useful way to find out?
To aid, I've committed a soc2gpl script so we can have a look at LibreOffice palettes for comparison.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
Am 19.10.2018 um 23:35 schrieb doctormo@...400...:
Dear devs,
I've had some complaints that Inkscape's default palette isn't that welcoming to new users. It's too harsh and varied. A number of users have asked me personally why we don't use the Tango palette as our default palette and move Inkscape default to a new name.
I don't actually know which palette would be the best to have as the default. Would a poll be a useful way to find out?
To aid, I've committed a soc2gpl script so we can have a look at LibreOffice palettes for comparison.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
Hi Martin,
are you referring to the "Tango icons" palette? If so I'd say it's not a default good choice. A palette that does not even have "#f00/#0f0/#00f" or any of the named web colors is not a good default in my opinion.
I agree everything next to "Fuchsia" in the default palette is likely not widely used - but then again I don't see a problem with that? The additional colors are there if one needs them (so it's a good thing) and if one does not need/want to use them they don't really hurt either.
Can you elaborate on how a color palette can be "unwelcoming" or even "harsh and varied"? For me that sounds like a very subjective statement.... If individuals don't like the spectrum of the default palette they can just choose a different palette after all!
Cheers, Patrick
On Fri, 2018-10-19 at 23:56 +0200, Patrick Storz wrote:
Can you elaborate on how a color palette can be "unwelcoming" or even "harsh and varied"? For me that sounds like a very subjective statement.... If individuals don't like the spectrum of the default palette they can just choose a different palette after all!
Sure.
Subjectivity - This is going to be VERY subjective. I'm not going to place anything on the alter of perfect.
Unwelcoming - The colours, when viewed for the first time, do not create warmth and joy to the eyes. There are colours that appeal more to the majority although this might be style of the times, not something we should be afraid of though.
Harsh - The primary colours are RGB primary colours and some of the harsher dark tones.
Varied - After the harsh tones comes the colour tones which contain way too much variation for a default palette. Three per colour is enough.
So. To have a good default, I would like to see a palette which is Broadly "to the majority of people exposed to it", welcoming "is generally attractive to the eye" mellow "doesn't default to RGB primaries" and smaller "contains three tones per hue".
But this is a pallet we could user test too.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
To add a use case, users that create drawings for a laser cutter often need to set the color to RGB red (RGB 255,0,0) and sometimes also green, blue, yellow or purple. Similar looking colors don't work because postprocessing tools match the exact color.
It is also helpful to have the most extreme options contained in a palette (just as you expect full black and white there, and not just some soft gray).
But I agree that the color palette right of fuchsia is not very helpful and could be rearranged or changed.
Just for a comment from a humble and simple user, I like the default palette. Of course I'm not really an artist, and know little to nothing about color theory, or what makes good color or bad color. I really just like bright colors. But the default palette seems to provide a wide range of colors.
Quote from doctormo: "Unwelcoming - The colours, when viewed for the first time, do not create warmth and joy to the eyes."
Hhhmm, they actually do create warmth and joy to my eyes. I'd rather have them logically organized, than organized towards beauty. Although again, I'm completely untrained.
Although having said all that, and now speaking as someone who answers support questions (which include complaints sometimes too) day in and day out. It's very easy to change the palette and it's relatively easy to install new palettes. Plus, it's fairly easy to make a Swatches palette (Auto palette), if you want to make with RGB and don't want to create a palette and install it. If I saw complaints in a forum about the default palette, that's how I would answer them. (Plus I would suggest a feature request, if they wanted to make it "official".)
What if the user could organize the palette to suit themselves? Drag and drop? (although including some way to revert to default, in case chips got accidentally dragged and dropped)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maximilian Gaukler Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 6:58 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
To add a use case, users that create drawings for a laser cutter often need to set the color to RGB red (RGB 255,0,0) and sometimes also green, blue, yellow or purple. Similar looking colors don't work because postprocessing tools match the exact color.
It is also helpful to have the most extreme options contained in a palette (just as you expect full black and white there, and not just some soft gray).
But I agree that the color palette right of fuchsia is not very helpful and could be rearranged or changed.
_______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Hi,
On 10/21/18 8:39 AM, brynn wrote:
Just for a comment from a humble and simple user, I like the default palette. Of course I'm not really an artist, and know little to nothing about color theory, or what makes good color or bad color. I really just like bright colors. But the default palette seems to provide a wide range of colors.
Hhhmm, they actually do create warmth and joy to my eyes. I'd rather have them logically organized, than organized towards beauty. Although again, I'm completely untrained.
+1 : having all the greys + primary colors at the beginning and then the colors roughly organized by hue, adjacent to answers to "wait, no, I need it darker/lighter" is something I find very practical to find colors (but again, my use case is never "mmh, I need to find any color that would feel somewhat warm")
But I agree that the color palette right of fuchsia is not very helpful and could be rearranged or changed.
I agree on that too : Maybe the colors there, instead of just being ordered by hue, could be colors easily distinguishable by colorblind people? It would make it easier to do accessible charts, for instance.
But this is a pallet we could user test too.
Sure, but as always, we have very different demographics mixed : CAD people, academics doing a poster or figures, designers… who "may" have different requirements.
Years ago I constructed these two swatches for a 2D animation program. Note the shift to get the reds not on the edge and putting everyone's favourite purple there instead. - http://i51.tinypic.com/6za35s.jpg - http://i68.tinypic.com/zwx4qv.jpg This kind of layout gives you access to the brights as well as desaturated versions. The central portion contains the colors most likely to be selected.
Sadly I do not find Inkscape's default palette or swatch very useful past initial color assignment. Wish the palette was two rows. Wish the swatch had options. (I'm running 92.3)
On 10/21/2018 7:39 PM, brynn wrote:
Just for a comment from a humble and simple user, I like the default palette. Of course I'm not really an artist, and know little to nothing about color theory, or what makes good color or bad color. I really just like bright colors. But the default palette seems to provide a wide range of colors.
Quote from doctormo: "Unwelcoming - The colours, when viewed for the first time, do not create warmth and joy to the eyes."
Hhhmm, they actually do create warmth and joy to my eyes. I'd rather have them logically organized, than organized towards beauty. Although again, I'm completely untrained.
Although having said all that, and now speaking as someone who answers support questions (which include complaints sometimes too) day in and day out. It's very easy to change the palette and it's relatively easy to install new palettes. Plus, it's fairly easy to make a Swatches palette (Auto palette), if you want to make with RGB and don't want to create a palette and install it. If I saw complaints in a forum about the default palette, that's how I would answer them. (Plus I would suggest a feature request, if they wanted to make it "official".)
What if the user could organize the palette to suit themselves? Drag and drop? (although including some way to revert to default, in case chips got accidentally dragged and dropped)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maximilian Gaukler Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 6:58 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
To add a use case, users that create drawings for a laser cutter often need to set the color to RGB red (RGB 255,0,0) and sometimes also green, blue, yellow or purple. Similar looking colors don't work because postprocessing tools match the exact color.
It is also helpful to have the most extreme options contained in a palette (just as you expect full black and white there, and not just some soft gray).
But I agree that the color palette right of fuchsia is not very helpful and could be rearranged or changed.
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
To me is strange have a palette not equal to autopalete, there is a swatches dialog, is more logic put them here. Regards.
Enviado desde TypeApp
En 21 oct. 2018 11:31, en 11:31, Mark Schafer <mschafer@...2596...> escribió:
Years ago I constructed these two swatches for a 2D animation program. Note the shift to get the reds not on the edge and putting everyone's favourite purple there instead.
This kind of layout gives you access to the brights as well as desaturated versions. The central portion contains the colors most likely to be selected.
Sadly I do not find Inkscape's default palette or swatch very useful past initial color assignment. Wish the palette was two rows. Wish the swatch had options. (I'm running 92.3)
On 10/21/2018 7:39 PM, brynn wrote:
Just for a comment from a humble and simple user, I like the default palette. Of course I'm not really an artist, and know little to nothing about color theory, or what makes good color or bad color. I
really just like bright colors. But the default palette seems to provide a wide range of colors.
Quote from doctormo: "Unwelcoming - The colours, when viewed for the first time, do not create warmth and joy to the eyes."
Hhhmm, they actually do create warmth and joy to my eyes. I'd rather
have them logically organized, than organized towards beauty. Although again, I'm completely untrained.
Although having said all that, and now speaking as someone who
answers
support questions (which include complaints sometimes too) day in and
day out. It's very easy to change the palette and it's relatively easy to install new palettes. Plus, it's fairly easy to make a Swatches palette (Auto palette), if you want to make with RGB and don't want to create a palette and install it. If I saw complaints
in
a forum about the default palette, that's how I would answer them. (Plus I would suggest a feature request, if they wanted to make it "official".)
What if the user could organize the palette to suit themselves? Drag and drop? (although including some way to revert to default, in case chips got accidentally dragged and dropped)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maximilian Gaukler Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 6:58 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
To add a use case, users that create drawings for a laser cutter
often
need to set the color to RGB red (RGB 255,0,0) and sometimes also
green,
blue, yellow or purple. Similar looking colors don't work because postprocessing tools match the exact color.
It is also helpful to have the most extreme options contained in a palette (just as you expect full black and white there, and not just some soft gray).
But I agree that the color palette right of fuchsia is not very
helpful
and could be rearranged or changed.
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Also I add a option to place it vertically or show it on mouse over/enter
Enviado desde TypeApp
En 21 oct. 2018 13:17, en 13:17, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> escribió:
To me is strange have a palette not equal to autopalete, there is a swatches dialog, is more logic put them here. Regards.
Enviado desde TypeApp
En 21 oct. 2018 11:31, en 11:31, Mark Schafer <mschafer@...2596...> escribió:
Years ago I constructed these two swatches for a 2D animation program. Note the shift to get the reds not on the edge and putting everyone's favourite purple there instead.
This kind of layout gives you access to the brights as well as desaturated versions. The central portion contains the colors most likely to be selected.
Sadly I do not find Inkscape's default palette or swatch very useful past initial color assignment. Wish the palette was two rows. Wish the swatch had options. (I'm running 92.3)
On 10/21/2018 7:39 PM, brynn wrote:
Just for a comment from a humble and simple user, I like the default palette. Of course I'm not really an artist, and know little to nothing about color theory, or what makes good color or bad color.
I
really just like bright colors. But the default palette seems to provide a wide range of colors.
Quote from doctormo: "Unwelcoming - The colours, when viewed for the first time, do not create warmth and joy to the eyes."
Hhhmm, they actually do create warmth and joy to my eyes. I'd
rather
have them logically organized, than organized towards beauty. Although again, I'm completely untrained.
Although having said all that, and now speaking as someone who
answers
support questions (which include complaints sometimes too) day in
and
day out. It's very easy to change the palette and it's relatively easy to install new palettes. Plus, it's fairly easy to make a Swatches palette (Auto palette), if you want to make with RGB and don't want to create a palette and install it. If I saw complaints
in
a forum about the default palette, that's how I would answer them. (Plus I would suggest a feature request, if they wanted to make it "official".)
What if the user could organize the palette to suit themselves? Drag and drop? (although including some way to revert to default, in case chips got accidentally dragged and dropped)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maximilian Gaukler Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 6:58 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
To add a use case, users that create drawings for a laser cutter
often
need to set the color to RGB red (RGB 255,0,0) and sometimes also
green,
blue, yellow or purple. Similar looking colors don't work because postprocessing tools match the exact color.
It is also helpful to have the most extreme options contained in a palette (just as you expect full black and white there, and not just some soft gray).
But I agree that the color palette right of fuchsia is not very
helpful
and could be rearranged or changed.
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 12:39:38AM -0600, brynn wrote:
Just for a comment from a humble and simple user, I like the default palette. Of course I'm not really an artist, and know little to nothing about color theory, or what makes good color or bad color. I really just like bright colors. But the default palette seems to provide a wide range of colors.
Quote from doctormo: "Unwelcoming - The colours, when viewed for the first time, do not create warmth and joy to the eyes."
Hhhmm, they actually do create warmth and joy to my eyes. I'd rather have them logically organized, than organized towards beauty. Although again, I'm completely untrained.
Although having said all that, and now speaking as someone who answers support questions (which include complaints sometimes too) day in and day out. It's very easy to change the palette and it's relatively easy to install new palettes. Plus, it's fairly easy to make a Swatches palette (Auto palette), if you want to make with RGB and don't want to create a palette and install it. If I saw complaints in a forum about the default palette, that's how I would answer them. (Plus I would suggest a feature request, if they wanted to make it "official".)
Out of curiosity, how frequently have you seen complaints about the default palette?
Bryce
What if the user could organize the palette to suit themselves? Drag and drop? (although including some way to revert to default, in case chips got accidentally dragged and dropped)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maximilian Gaukler Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 6:58 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
To add a use case, users that create drawings for a laser cutter often need to set the color to RGB red (RGB 255,0,0) and sometimes also green, blue, yellow or purple. Similar looking colors don't work because postprocessing tools match the exact color.
It is also helpful to have the most extreme options contained in a palette (just as you expect full black and white there, and not just some soft gray).
But I agree that the color palette right of fuchsia is not very helpful and could be rearranged or changed.
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Out of curiosity, how frequently have you seen complaints about the
default palette?
I may have seen one, in 10 or 11 years in Inkscape forums. It's part of the reason I wanted to comment to Martin's original message.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Bryce Harrington Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 12:26 PM To: brynn Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net ; Maximilian Gaukler Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 12:39:38AM -0600, brynn wrote:
Just for a comment from a humble and simple user, I like the default palette. Of course I'm not really an artist, and know little to nothing about color theory, or what makes good color or bad color. I really just like bright colors. But the default palette seems to provide a wide range of colors.
Quote from doctormo: "Unwelcoming - The colours, when viewed for the first time, do not create warmth and joy to the eyes."
Hhhmm, they actually do create warmth and joy to my eyes. I'd rather have them logically organized, than organized towards beauty. Although again, I'm completely untrained.
Although having said all that, and now speaking as someone who answers support questions (which include complaints sometimes too) day in and day out. It's very easy to change the palette and it's relatively easy to install new palettes. Plus, it's fairly easy to make a Swatches palette (Auto palette), if you want to make with RGB and don't want to create a palette and install it. If I saw complaints in a forum about the default palette, that's how I would answer them. (Plus I would suggest a feature request, if they wanted to make it "official".)
Out of curiosity, how frequently have you seen complaints about the default palette?
Bryce
What if the user could organize the palette to suit themselves? Drag and drop? (although including some way to revert to default, in case chips got accidentally dragged and dropped)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maximilian Gaukler Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 6:58 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
To add a use case, users that create drawings for a laser cutter often need to set the color to RGB red (RGB 255,0,0) and sometimes also green, blue, yellow or purple. Similar looking colors don't work because postprocessing tools match the exact color.
It is also helpful to have the most extreme options contained in a palette (just as you expect full black and white there, and not just some soft gray).
But I agree that the color palette right of fuchsia is not very helpful and could be rearranged or changed.
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
The question here is wether if the Inkscape default palette should have a few selected colors or display by default all the rgb palette.
*Pains*: is a bit unusable (looooong horizontal scroll) and harsh (as Martin pointed out). *Cons*: is more useful to have all rgb colors.
*What do other similar software do?* Most of the other design software out there limit the palette to a number of colors and allow users to change it to other palettes or modify it. They also have an option to display all RGB colors but is not usually a palette. When we talk about a palette, we usually talk about a very limited amount of colors.
*How to keep it usable, useful and not ugly?* The palettes from other dev softwares are not very different from the default inkscape palette, they just display by default a much more limited tonality scale with less variations.
About *Tango* (I love that palette and is my default palette for rapid prototyping) I think is an opinionated palette so I won't go with that one by default.
My guess is that drastically reducing the current default palette and avoiding the default scroll with a tonality scale that could fit multiple uses would be useful and more welcoming. Is not a big change but could be nice. I'd also suggest a redesign of the button to change palettes to make it more visible.
I'd be happy to work on a default palette proposal :)
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:29 PM brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:
Out of curiosity, how frequently have you seen complaints about the
default palette?
I may have seen one, in 10 or 11 years in Inkscape forums. It's part of the reason I wanted to comment to Martin's original message.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Bryce Harrington Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 12:26 PM To: brynn Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net ; Maximilian Gaukler Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 12:39:38AM -0600, brynn wrote:
Just for a comment from a humble and simple user, I like the default palette. Of course I'm not really an artist, and know little to nothing about color theory, or what makes good color or bad color. I really just like bright colors. But the default palette seems to provide a wide
range
of colors.
Quote from doctormo: "Unwelcoming - The colours, when viewed for the first time, do not create warmth and joy to the eyes."
Hhhmm, they actually do create warmth and joy to my eyes. I'd rather
have
them logically organized, than organized towards beauty. Although again, I'm completely untrained.
Although having said all that, and now speaking as someone who answers support questions (which include complaints sometimes too) day in and day out. It's very easy to change the palette and it's relatively easy to install new palettes. Plus, it's fairly easy to make a Swatches palette (Auto palette), if you want to make with RGB and don't want to create a palette and install it. If I saw complaints in a forum about the default palette, that's how I would answer them. (Plus I would suggest a feature request, if they wanted to make it "official".)
Out of curiosity, how frequently have you seen complaints about the default palette?
Bryce
What if the user could organize the palette to suit themselves? Drag and drop? (although including some way to revert to default, in case chips
got
accidentally dragged and dropped)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maximilian Gaukler Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 6:58 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
To add a use case, users that create drawings for a laser cutter often need to set the color to RGB red (RGB 255,0,0) and sometimes also green, blue, yellow or purple. Similar looking colors don't work because postprocessing tools match the exact color.
It is also helpful to have the most extreme options contained in a palette (just as you expect full black and white there, and not just some soft gray).
But I agree that the color palette right of fuchsia is not very helpful and could be rearranged or changed.
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
You can set the palette so that you don't have to scroll it. Just choose "Wrap" from the...well, it's a jump-up menu I guess. It does make the palette taller, so that it takes space from the canvas. But you can also change the size and width of the color chips.
When you're talking about having RGB colors, do you mean you want the tooltip to show the rgb numbers? If so, couldn't the rgb numbers be added to the hexcode, which currently shows in the tooltip? Or are RGB colors somehow different? If so, why not have a separate RGB palette in the menu?
I would agree that palette menu is very hard to find! I don't think it would hurt to make the button twice it's current size. Or maybe even put it in the View menu?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Xaviju Julián Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 2:47 AM To: brynn@...3133... Cc: bryce@...961... ; inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
The question here is wether if the Inkscape default palette should have a few selected colors or display by default all the rgb palette.
Pains: is a bit unusable (looooong horizontal scroll) and harsh (as Martin pointed out). Cons: is more useful to have all rgb colors.
What do other similar software do? Most of the other design software out there limit the palette to a number of colors and allow users to change it to other palettes or modify it. They also have an option to display all RGB colors but is not usually a palette. When we talk about a palette, we usually talk about a very limited amount of colors.
How to keep it usable, useful and not ugly?
The palettes from other dev softwares are not very different from the default inkscape palette, they just display by default a much more limited tonality scale with less variations.
About Tango (I love that palette and is my default palette for rapid prototyping) I think is an opinionated palette so I won't go with that one by default.
My guess is that drastically reducing the current default palette and avoiding the default scroll with a tonality scale that could fit multiple uses would be useful and more welcoming. Is not a big change but could be nice. I'd also suggest a redesign of the button to change palettes to make it more visible.
I'd be happy to work on a default palette proposal :)
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:29 PM brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:
Out of curiosity, how frequently have you seen complaints about the
default palette?
I may have seen one, in 10 or 11 years in Inkscape forums. It's part of the reason I wanted to comment to Martin's original message.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Bryce Harrington Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 12:26 PM To: brynn Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net ; Maximilian Gaukler Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 12:39:38AM -0600, brynn wrote:
Just for a comment from a humble and simple user, I like the default palette. Of course I'm not really an artist, and know little to nothing about color theory, or what makes good color or bad color. I really just like bright colors. But the default palette seems to provide a wide range of colors.
Quote from doctormo: "Unwelcoming - The colours, when viewed for the first time, do not create warmth and joy to the eyes."
Hhhmm, they actually do create warmth and joy to my eyes. I'd rather have them logically organized, than organized towards beauty. Although again, I'm completely untrained.
Although having said all that, and now speaking as someone who answers support questions (which include complaints sometimes too) day in and day out. It's very easy to change the palette and it's relatively easy to install new palettes. Plus, it's fairly easy to make a Swatches palette (Auto palette), if you want to make with RGB and don't want to create a palette and install it. If I saw complaints in a forum about the default palette, that's how I would answer them. (Plus I would suggest a feature request, if they wanted to make it "official".)
Out of curiosity, how frequently have you seen complaints about the default palette?
Bryce
What if the user could organize the palette to suit themselves? Drag and drop? (although including some way to revert to default, in case chips got accidentally dragged and dropped)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maximilian Gaukler Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 6:58 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
To add a use case, users that create drawings for a laser cutter often need to set the color to RGB red (RGB 255,0,0) and sometimes also green, blue, yellow or purple. Similar looking colors don't work because postprocessing tools match the exact color.
It is also helpful to have the most extreme options contained in a palette (just as you expect full black and white there, and not just some soft gray).
But I agree that the color palette right of fuchsia is not very helpful and could be rearranged or changed.
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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Oh wow I never knew that. Wrap and the tiny menu arrow which allows palette selection. Maybe wrap would be a good option to default to on in a raw install ?
This is now much more useful to me. Now looking for how I can make my own palette to add to that list.
Found this from 2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_jJqjG0c1Y and noticed Auto on the pallete (tricky to find menu) actually converts the fill colors of selected shapes into a palette (maybe "Auto" could be renamed to "From selection") Which can then be saved using "SaveAs" and selecting gimp palette. Further text editing of the gpl file editing allows you to set a Column: line under the Name: line but not sure if this is used by inkscape.
Thanks for all the hints. I like palettes and swatches much more now...
On 10/24/2018 11:05 PM, brynn wrote:
You can set the palette so that you don't have to scroll it. Just choose "Wrap" from the...well, it's a jump-up menu I guess. It does make the palette taller, so that it takes space from the canvas. But you can also change the size and width of the color chips.
When you're talking about having RGB colors, do you mean you want the tooltip to show the rgb numbers? If so, couldn't the rgb numbers be added to the hexcode, which currently shows in the tooltip? Or are RGB colors somehow different? If so, why not have a separate RGB palette in the menu?
I would agree that palette menu is very hard to find! I don't think it would hurt to make the button twice it's current size. Or maybe even put it in the View menu?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Xaviju Julián Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 2:47 AM To: brynn@...3133... Cc: bryce@...961... ; inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
The question here is wether if the Inkscape default palette should have a few selected colors or display by default all the rgb palette.
Pains: is a bit unusable (looooong horizontal scroll) and harsh (as Martin pointed out). Cons: is more useful to have all rgb colors.
What do other similar software do? Most of the other design software out there limit the palette to a number of colors and allow users to change it to other palettes or modify it. They also have an option to display all RGB colors but is not usually a palette. When we talk about a palette, we usually talk about a very limited amount of colors.
How to keep it usable, useful and not ugly?
The palettes from other dev softwares are not very different from the default inkscape palette, they just display by default a much more limited tonality scale with less variations.
About Tango (I love that palette and is my default palette for rapid prototyping) I think is an opinionated palette so I won't go with that one by default.
My guess is that drastically reducing the current default palette and avoiding the default scroll with a tonality scale that could fit multiple uses would be useful and more welcoming. Is not a big change but could be nice. I'd also suggest a redesign of the button to change palettes to make it more visible.
I'd be happy to work on a default palette proposal :)
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:29 PM brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:
Out of curiosity, how frequently have you seen complaints about the
default palette?
I may have seen one, in 10 or 11 years in Inkscape forums. It's part of the reason I wanted to comment to Martin's original message.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Bryce Harrington Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 12:26 PM To: brynn Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net ; Maximilian Gaukler Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 12:39:38AM -0600, brynn wrote:
Just for a comment from a humble and simple user, I like the default palette. Of course I'm not really an artist, and know little to nothing about color theory, or what makes good color or bad color. I really just like bright colors. But the default palette seems to provide a wide range of colors.
Quote from doctormo: "Unwelcoming - The colours, when viewed for the first time, do not create warmth and joy to the eyes."
Hhhmm, they actually do create warmth and joy to my eyes. I'd rather have them logically organized, than organized towards beauty. Although again, I'm completely untrained.
Although having said all that, and now speaking as someone who answers support questions (which include complaints sometimes too) day in and day out. It's very easy to change the palette and it's relatively easy to install new palettes. Plus, it's fairly easy to make a Swatches palette (Auto palette), if you want to make with RGB and don't want to create a palette and install it. If I saw complaints in a forum about the default palette, that's how I would answer them. (Plus I would suggest a feature request, if they wanted to make it "official".)
Out of curiosity, how frequently have you seen complaints about the default palette?
Bryce
What if the user could organize the palette to suit themselves? Drag and drop? (although including some way to revert to default, in case chips got accidentally dragged and dropped)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maximilian Gaukler Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 6:58 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
To add a use case, users that create drawings for a laser cutter often need to set the color to RGB red (RGB 255,0,0) and sometimes also green, blue, yellow or purple. Similar looking colors don't work because postprocessing tools match the exact color.
It is also helpful to have the most extreme options contained in a palette (just as you expect full black and white there, and not just some soft gray).
But I agree that the color palette right of fuchsia is not very helpful and could be rearranged or changed.
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(maybe "Auto" could be renamed to "From selection")
What about maybe calling it a "Swatches palette", so that users connect it to the Swatches feature?
I know of a couple more tutorials for making your own palette, beside what you found. Let's see.... First some extensions re palettes. (Note that I've not used these so can't vouch for quality.)
An external extension to generate palettes from selected objects:
https://inkscape.org/en/~olibia/%E2%98%85generate-palette-extension and https://github.com/olibia/inkscape-generate-palette
Another external extension to dowload palettes automatically:
https://inkscape.org/en/~olibia/%E2%98%85download-palette-extension and https://github.com/olibia/inkscape-generate-palette
Tutorials (not sure if some of these are about the swatches palette, but the last one is not):
-- http://goinkscape.com/custom-color-palettes-in-inkscape/ -- https://manjitkarve.com/posts/inkscape-custom-palette/ -- https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/ureva7n4uyue6e6/Gimp_Palette_Howto_V0_2....
I'm pretty sure there's one more tutorial for making a custom palette, but I can't find it.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Mark Schafer Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 5:17 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
Oh wow I never knew that. Wrap and the tiny menu arrow which allows palette selection. Maybe wrap would be a good option to default to on in a raw install ?
This is now much more useful to me. Now looking for how I can make my own palette to add to that list.
Found this from 2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_jJqjG0c1Y and noticed Auto on the pallete (tricky to find menu) actually converts the fill colors of selected shapes into a palette (maybe "Auto" could be renamed to "From selection") Which can then be saved using "SaveAs" and selecting gimp palette. Further text editing of the gpl file editing allows you to set a Column: line under the Name: line but not sure if this is used by inkscape.
Thanks for all the hints. I like palettes and swatches much more now...
On 10/24/2018 11:05 PM, brynn wrote:
You can set the palette so that you don't have to scroll it. Just choose "Wrap" from the...well, it's a jump-up menu I guess. It does make the palette taller, so that it takes space from the canvas. But you can also change the size and width of the color chips.
When you're talking about having RGB colors, do you mean you want the tooltip to show the rgb numbers? If so, couldn't the rgb numbers be added to the hexcode, which currently shows in the tooltip? Or are RGB colors somehow different? If so, why not have a separate RGB palette in the menu?
I would agree that palette menu is very hard to find! I don't think it would hurt to make the button twice it's current size. Or maybe even put it in the View menu?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Xaviju Julián Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 2:47 AM To: brynn@...3133... Cc: bryce@...961... ; inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
The question here is wether if the Inkscape default palette should have a few selected colors or display by default all the rgb palette.
Pains: is a bit unusable (looooong horizontal scroll) and harsh (as Martin pointed out). Cons: is more useful to have all rgb colors.
What do other similar software do? Most of the other design software out there limit the palette to a number of colors and allow users to change it to other palettes or modify it. They also have an option to display all RGB colors but is not usually a palette. When we talk about a palette, we usually talk about a very limited amount of colors.
How to keep it usable, useful and not ugly?
The palettes from other dev softwares are not very different from the default inkscape palette, they just display by default a much more limited tonality scale with less variations.
About Tango (I love that palette and is my default palette for rapid prototyping) I think is an opinionated palette so I won't go with that one by default.
My guess is that drastically reducing the current default palette and avoiding the default scroll with a tonality scale that could fit multiple uses would be useful and more welcoming. Is not a big change but could be nice. I'd also suggest a redesign of the button to change palettes to make it more visible.
I'd be happy to work on a default palette proposal :)
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:29 PM brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:
Out of curiosity, how frequently have you seen complaints about the
default palette?
I may have seen one, in 10 or 11 years in Inkscape forums. It's part of the reason I wanted to comment to Martin's original message.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Bryce Harrington Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 12:26 PM To: brynn Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net ; Maximilian Gaukler Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 12:39:38AM -0600, brynn wrote:
Just for a comment from a humble and simple user, I like the default palette. Of course I'm not really an artist, and know little to nothing about color theory, or what makes good color or bad color. I really just like bright colors. But the default palette seems to provide a wide range of colors.
Quote from doctormo: "Unwelcoming - The colours, when viewed for the first time, do not create warmth and joy to the eyes."
Hhhmm, they actually do create warmth and joy to my eyes. I'd rather have them logically organized, than organized towards beauty. Although again, I'm completely untrained.
Although having said all that, and now speaking as someone who answers support questions (which include complaints sometimes too) day in and day out. It's very easy to change the palette and it's relatively easy to install new palettes. Plus, it's fairly easy to make a Swatches palette (Auto palette), if you want to make with RGB and don't want to create a palette and install it. If I saw complaints in a forum about the default palette, that's how I would answer them. (Plus I would suggest a feature request, if they wanted to make it "official".)
Out of curiosity, how frequently have you seen complaints about the default palette?
Bryce
What if the user could organize the palette to suit themselves? Drag and drop? (although including some way to revert to default, in case chips got accidentally dragged and dropped)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maximilian Gaukler Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 6:58 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
To add a use case, users that create drawings for a laser cutter often need to set the color to RGB red (RGB 255,0,0) and sometimes also green, blue, yellow or purple. Similar looking colors don't work because postprocessing tools match the exact color.
It is also helpful to have the most extreme options contained in a palette (just as you expect full black and white there, and not just some soft gray).
But I agree that the color palette right of fuchsia is not very helpful and could be rearranged or changed.
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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You can set the palette so that you don't have to scroll it. Just choose "Wrap" from the...well, it's a jump-up menu I guess. It does make the palette taller, so that it takes space from the canvas. But you can also change the size and width of the color chips.
I know, but wrapping this large palette by default (in my computer it jumps to four lines) would make the interface even more unwelcoming. Never used that option.
When you're talking about having RGB colors, do you mean you want the
tooltip to show the rgb numbers?
Sorry for my english, I was saying `RGB palette` because I supposed that the default palette was a large palette of RGB combinations. I was proposing to reduce it drastically. I'd also proposed to keep this large palette separated to let users keep it as the default on its local inkscape.
On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:05 PM brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:
You can set the palette so that you don't have to scroll it. Just choose "Wrap" from the...well, it's a jump-up menu I guess. It does make the palette taller, so that it takes space from the canvas. But you can also change the size and width of the color chips.
When you're talking about having RGB colors, do you mean you want the tooltip to show the rgb numbers? If so, couldn't the rgb numbers be added to the hexcode, which currently shows in the tooltip? Or are RGB colors somehow different? If so, why not have a separate RGB palette in the menu?
I would agree that palette menu is very hard to find! I don't think it would hurt to make the button twice it's current size. Or maybe even put it in the View menu?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Xaviju Julián Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 2:47 AM To: brynn@...3133... Cc: bryce@...961... ; inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
The question here is wether if the Inkscape default palette should have a few selected colors or display by default all the rgb palette.
Pains: is a bit unusable (looooong horizontal scroll) and harsh (as Martin pointed out). Cons: is more useful to have all rgb colors.
What do other similar software do? Most of the other design software out there limit the palette to a number of colors and allow users to change it to other palettes or modify it. They also have an option to display all RGB colors but is not usually a palette. When we talk about a palette, we usually talk about a very limited amount of colors.
How to keep it usable, useful and not ugly?
The palettes from other dev softwares are not very different from the default inkscape palette, they just display by default a much more limited tonality scale with less variations.
About Tango (I love that palette and is my default palette for rapid prototyping) I think is an opinionated palette so I won't go with that one by default.
My guess is that drastically reducing the current default palette and avoiding the default scroll with a tonality scale that could fit multiple uses would be useful and more welcoming. Is not a big change but could be nice. I'd also suggest a redesign of the button to change palettes to make it more visible.
I'd be happy to work on a default palette proposal :)
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:29 PM brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:
Out of curiosity, how frequently have you seen complaints about the
default palette?
I may have seen one, in 10 or 11 years in Inkscape forums. It's part of the reason I wanted to comment to Martin's original message.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Bryce Harrington Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 12:26 PM To: brynn Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net ; Maximilian Gaukler Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 12:39:38AM -0600, brynn wrote:
Just for a comment from a humble and simple user, I like the default palette. Of course I'm not really an artist, and know little to nothing about color theory, or what makes good color or bad color. I really just like bright colors. But the default palette seems to provide a wide
range
of colors.
Quote from doctormo: "Unwelcoming - The colours, when viewed for the first time, do not create warmth and joy to the eyes."
Hhhmm, they actually do create warmth and joy to my eyes. I'd rather
have
them logically organized, than organized towards beauty. Although again, I'm completely untrained.
Although having said all that, and now speaking as someone who answers support questions (which include complaints sometimes too) day in and day out. It's very easy to change the palette and it's relatively easy to install new palettes. Plus, it's fairly easy to make a Swatches palette (Auto palette), if you want to make with RGB and don't want to create a palette and install it. If I saw complaints in a forum about the default palette, that's how I would answer them. (Plus I would suggest a feature request, if they wanted to make it "official".)
Out of curiosity, how frequently have you seen complaints about the default palette?
Bryce
What if the user could organize the palette to suit themselves? Drag and drop? (although including some way to revert to default, in case chips
got
accidentally dragged and dropped)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maximilian Gaukler Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 6:58 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
To add a use case, users that create drawings for a laser cutter often need to set the color to RGB red (RGB 255,0,0) and sometimes also green, blue, yellow or purple. Similar looking colors don't work because postprocessing tools match the exact color.
It is also helpful to have the most extreme options contained in a palette (just as you expect full black and white there, and not just some soft gray).
But I agree that the color palette right of fuchsia is not very helpful and could be rearranged or changed.
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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Being a newbie I find the pallete useful especially the black-grey-white part of it at the beginning, I mostly use the Color and fill menu for most of the works since the initial Colors in the pallete are more primary and I mostly use something like colorhunt.co or coolors.co to find colors since it's easier that way.
Concluding: being a newbie and someone who doesn't have such a great Color sense (yet) I feel the pallete does its work well, except the part that I don't use it much.
On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 4:52 PM Xaviju Julián <xaviju@...400... wrote:
You can set the palette so that you don't have to scroll it. Just choose
"Wrap" from the...well, it's a jump-up menu I guess. It does make the palette taller, so that it takes space from the canvas. But you can also change the size and width of the color chips.
I know, but wrapping this large palette by default (in my computer it jumps to four lines) would make the interface even more unwelcoming. Never used that option.
When you're talking about having RGB colors, do you mean you want the
tooltip to show the rgb numbers?
Sorry for my english, I was saying `RGB palette` because I supposed that the default palette was a large palette of RGB combinations. I was proposing to reduce it drastically. I'd also proposed to keep this large palette separated to let users keep it as the default on its local inkscape.
On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:05 PM brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:
You can set the palette so that you don't have to scroll it. Just choose "Wrap" from the...well, it's a jump-up menu I guess. It does make the palette taller, so that it takes space from the canvas. But you can also change the size and width of the color chips.
When you're talking about having RGB colors, do you mean you want the tooltip to show the rgb numbers? If so, couldn't the rgb numbers be added to the hexcode, which currently shows in the tooltip? Or are RGB colors somehow different? If so, why not have a separate RGB palette in the menu?
I would agree that palette menu is very hard to find! I don't think it would hurt to make the button twice it's current size. Or maybe even put it in the View menu?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Xaviju Julián Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 2:47 AM To: brynn@...3133... Cc: bryce@...961... ; inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
The question here is wether if the Inkscape default palette should have a few selected colors or display by default all the rgb palette.
Pains: is a bit unusable (looooong horizontal scroll) and harsh (as Martin pointed out). Cons: is more useful to have all rgb colors.
What do other similar software do? Most of the other design software out there limit the palette to a number of colors and allow users to change it to other palettes or modify it. They also have an option to display all RGB colors but is not usually a palette. When we talk about a palette, we usually talk about a very limited amount of colors.
How to keep it usable, useful and not ugly?
The palettes from other dev softwares are not very different from the default inkscape palette, they just display by default a much more limited tonality scale with less variations.
About Tango (I love that palette and is my default palette for rapid prototyping) I think is an opinionated palette so I won't go with that one by default.
My guess is that drastically reducing the current default palette and avoiding the default scroll with a tonality scale that could fit multiple uses would be useful and more welcoming. Is not a big change but could be nice. I'd also suggest a redesign of the button to change palettes to make it more visible.
I'd be happy to work on a default palette proposal :)
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:29 PM brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:
Out of curiosity, how frequently have you seen complaints about the
default palette?
I may have seen one, in 10 or 11 years in Inkscape forums. It's part of the reason I wanted to comment to Martin's original message.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Bryce Harrington Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 12:26 PM To: brynn Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net ; Maximilian Gaukler Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 12:39:38AM -0600, brynn wrote:
Just for a comment from a humble and simple user, I like the default palette. Of course I'm not really an artist, and know little to nothing about color theory, or what makes good color or bad color. I really
just
like bright colors. But the default palette seems to provide a wide
range
of colors.
Quote from doctormo: "Unwelcoming - The colours, when viewed for the first time, do not create warmth and joy to the eyes."
Hhhmm, they actually do create warmth and joy to my eyes. I'd rather
have
them logically organized, than organized towards beauty. Although
again,
I'm completely untrained.
Although having said all that, and now speaking as someone who answers support questions (which include complaints sometimes too) day in and
day
out. It's very easy to change the palette and it's relatively easy to install new palettes. Plus, it's fairly easy to make a Swatches palette (Auto palette), if you want to make with RGB and don't want to create a palette and install it. If I saw complaints in a forum about the
default
palette, that's how I would answer them. (Plus I would suggest a
feature
request, if they wanted to make it "official".)
Out of curiosity, how frequently have you seen complaints about the default palette?
Bryce
What if the user could organize the palette to suit themselves? Drag
and
drop? (although including some way to revert to default, in case chips
got
accidentally dragged and dropped)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maximilian Gaukler Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 6:58 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Default Palette
To add a use case, users that create drawings for a laser cutter often need to set the color to RGB red (RGB 255,0,0) and sometimes also green, blue, yellow or purple. Similar looking colors don't work because postprocessing tools match the exact color.
It is also helpful to have the most extreme options contained in a palette (just as you expect full black and white there, and not just some soft gray).
But I agree that the color palette right of fuchsia is not very helpful and could be rearranged or changed.
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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participants (10)
-
unknown＠example.com -
Aditya Sher -
Bryce Harrington -
brynn -
Jabier Arraiza -
Marc Jeanmougin -
Mark Schafer -
Maximilian Gaukler -
Patrick Storz -
Xaviju Julián