3:19 a.m.
Slashdot had an interview with Mitchell Baker this morning,
and she answers a question about SVG in Firefox.
"when will it be turned on by default?"
http://interviews.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/22/1442200&tid=15...
Actually, she doesn't answer it, which is very, very disappointing.
The situation is quite depressing, with no hopeful future in sight.
Bob
3:35 a.m.
Bob Jamison wrote:
The situation is quite depressing, with no hopeful future in sight.
Just kidding! (mostly) Actually it works quite well. Just built a
fresh CVS
copy of Firefox with svg on FC3:
http://troi.hous.es3.titan.com/inkscape/files/firefox-i686-linux-gtk2+xft...
It works well on my gentoo box, too.
Bob
6:04 a.m.
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Bob Jamison wrote:
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:35:15 -0600
From: Bob Jamison <rjamison@...357...>
To: Inkscape ML <inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Mitchell Baker mentions SVG in Mozilla
Bob Jamison wrote:
> The situation is quite depressing, with no hopeful future in sight.
>
Just kidding! (mostly) Actually it works quite well. Just built a
fresh CVS
It didn't sound like kidding to me. This isn't anything new.
If you were willing to compile from source or use experimental binaries
then basic SVG support has been avaible for a long time.
Until there is a proper official release with even a small subset of SVG
support it is only slightly better than "Beta Software" for most intents
and purposes and doesn't really help to promote the Scalable Vector
Graphics standard.
Nothing to see here, move along please.
Sincerely
Alan Horkan.
http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/
8:11 a.m.
On Wednesday 23 March 2005 14:04, Alan Horkan wrote:
Nothing to see here, move along please.
I would disagree - since SVG support is very important to us in the SVG
community and if the Mozilla team is holding it back, then the question
becomes what can we do to encourage them along. Answer:
1) Promote (and yes I mean stick a link right on the home page of Inkscape)
the use of a beta version with SVG amongst the SVG community to help the
Mozilla team flush out SVG bugs (this is what I meant by promoting an
"underground" Firefox w/ SVG version). Maybe use the last cvs before the
last release (1.01) so the rest of Firefox is pretty stable for us to use on
a regular basis.
2) help the Mozilla team resolve whatever decisions they need to make
regarding SVG features vis a vis the CSS conflicts Mitchell mentions.
3) this activity will also help demonstrate demand for SVG to bump it up in
the Mozilla priority list
Sitting on our hands waiting for them is not very pro-active - we should be
glad it's this far along and jumping on their work - otherwise it only
justifies the lower priority it may be receiving. Now anyone have a SVG .deb
package that I can use with my Ubuntu? (I'm not sure how to dig into the CVS
to get the right version).
John
2:51 p.m.
On Wed, 2005-03-23 at 16:11 -0700, John Taber wrote:
On Wednesday 23 March 2005 14:04, Alan Horkan wrote:
> Nothing to see here, move along please.
I would disagree - since SVG support is very important to us in the SVG
community and if the Mozilla team is holding it back, then the question
becomes what can we do to encourage them along. Answer:
1) Promote (and yes I mean stick a link right on the home page of Inkscape)
the use of a beta version with SVG amongst the SVG community to help the
Mozilla team flush out SVG bugs (this is what I meant by promoting an
"underground" Firefox w/ SVG version). Maybe use the last cvs before the
last release (1.01) so the rest of Firefox is pretty stable for us to use on
a regular basis.
Well, I like this idea. I would support advocacy on Inkscape.org and
Openclipart.org of getting SVG into Mozilla yesterday. I think similarly
that putting svg into moz. builds by default now will flush out the bugs
much quicker than having it not compiled in by default.
2) help the Mozilla team resolve whatever decisions they need to make
regarding SVG features vis a vis the CSS conflicts Mitchell mentions.
This would be good as well. Go for it!
3) this activity will also help demonstrate demand for SVG to bump it
up in
the Mozilla priority list
Yes, it is generally true that the more hands that are up in the air,
then the more attention it will get. I'm afraid that that Firefox is so
hungry for market share that they are giving that the most
attention...but that is good as well as supporting web standards...
Sitting on our hands waiting for them is not very pro-active - we
should be
glad it's this far along and jumping on their work - otherwise it only
justifies the lower priority it may be receiving. Now anyone have a SVG .deb
package that I can use with my Ubuntu? (I'm not sure how to dig into the CVS
to get the right version).
I tend to agree with you, but I also don't want to anger moz svg and moz
ppl. in general by seeming too radical in bent. I think that we should
promote SVG more than we are currently. Right now we basically using SVG
as a file format for illustration/drawing and are not capitalizing on it
as a dynamic/interactive major web format. Imagine surfing all SVG web
pages! We really need to think about how we are emphasizing SVG. I'm
open to more suggestions.
I think one good approach would be to develop a strategy between
Openclipart.org, Inkscape and mozilla svg to support SVG in the browser.
This could take the form of some web buttons/banners and a page
supporting adoption. This could be housed either on Openclipart.org or
Inkscape.org. Do you know how to edit our webpage? Are there any
volunteers to push this? Look at how Firefox has the
spreadfirefox.org...why don't you start something like spreadsvg.org !
Jon
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10:36 p.m.
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Jon Phillips wrote:
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:51:44 -0800
From: Jon Phillips <jon@...235...>
To: John Taber <jtaber@...480...>
Cc: inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...>,
Bryce Harrington <bryce@...260...>
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Mitchell Baker mentions SVG in Mozilla
On Wed, 2005-03-23 at 16:11 -0700, John Taber wrote:
> On Wednesday 23 March 2005 14:04, Alan Horkan wrote:
> > Nothing to see here, move along please.
>
> I would disagree - since SVG support is very important to us in the SVG
> community and if the Mozilla team is holding it back, then the question
> becomes what can we do to encourage them along. Answer:
Sorry for my pessimism but I don't want developers to underestimate the
importantance of proper release builds that users can have some measure of
confidence in. "Release early release often" means a lot more than
providing CVS access or nightly builds (although that is helpful) proper
release builds are needed too.
I can certainly agree that pro-active approach would be much more
productive. I dont want to sound too much like I'm volunteering though so
I try to be very careful about making such suggestions myself.
> 1) Promote (and yes I mean stick a link right on the home page
of Inkscape)
> the use of a beta version with SVG amongst the SVG community to help the
> Mozilla team flush out SVG bugs (this is what I meant by promoting an
I think we should promote all browsers that support SVG, perhaps even
ranking them by whichever we consider best (presumably IE would get a low
score for requiring the Adobe SVG plugin).
I tend to agree with you, but I also don't want to anger moz svg
and moz
ppl. in general by seeming too radical in bent. I think that we should
I think the Inkscape community has enough smart people to call us out if
we are being too radical and check we are being polite enough not to hurt
our own cause (good management includes telling people when they are out
of line, I'm surprised though how little that is needed here as the
development culture is already very accepting of change).
promote SVG more than we are currently. Right now we basically using
SVG
as a file format for illustration/drawing and are not capitalizing on it
as a dynamic/interactive major web format. Imagine surfing all SVG web
pages! We really need to think about how we are emphasizing SVG. I'm
open to more suggestions.
Some sort of "Save for Web" even a Web Preview that wraps an SVG in a
small amoutn of XHTML and opens a browser might be helpful here.
I think one good approach would be to develop a strategy between
Openclipart.org, Inkscape and mozilla svg to support SVG in the browser.
This could take the form of some web buttons/banners and a page
I'm not sure a browser specific push in necessarily the best way to go, I
think we should promote the browsers that are best for SVG.
supporting adoption. This could be housed either on Openclipart.org
or
Inkscape.org. Do you know how to edit our webpage? Are there any
volunteers to push this? Look at how Firefox has the
spreadfirefox.org...why don't you start something like spreadsvg.org !
spreadsvg.org? I think you misspelled openclipart.org ;)
Sincerely
Alan Horkan
Inkscape http://inkscape.org
Abiword http://www.abisource.com
Dia http://gnome.org/projects/dia/
Open Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org
Alan's Diary http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/
12:06 a.m.
On Thursday 24 March 2005 06:36, Alan Horkan wrote:
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Jon Phillips wrote:
> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:51:44 -0800
> This could take the form of some web buttons/banners and a page
I'm not sure a browser specific push in necessarily the best way to go, I
think we should promote the browsers that are best for SVG.
> supporting adoption. This could be housed either on Openclipart.org or
> Inkscape.org. Do you know how to edit our webpage? Are there any
> volunteers to push this? Look at how Firefox has the
Well, I don't think we need a separate web site but it might be useful to have
a wiki page on how to load an Inkscape SVG drawing into a web page. Hmm,
I'll start to write up an article - but I guess I need to download a svg
enabled firefox version - I think someone posted a link to one yesterday.
Yes, Alan, you are correct in suggesting browser independance. Actually,
Opera should be noted to be the first to have direct support. A screenshot
of their browser would be good for the wiki page. And even the IE/Adobe
combo is the most widely available way to view SVG on the web at the moment
for those that use Windows.
John
6:46 a.m.
On Thu, 2005-03-24 at 13:36 +0000, Alan Horkan wrote:
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Jon Phillips wrote:
> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:51:44 -0800
> From: Jon Phillips <jon@...235...>
> To: John Taber <jtaber@...480...>
> Cc: inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...>,
> Bryce Harrington <bryce@...260...>
> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Mitchell Baker mentions SVG in Mozilla
>
> On Wed, 2005-03-23 at 16:11 -0700, John Taber wrote:
> > On Wednesday 23 March 2005 14:04, Alan Horkan wrote:
> > > Nothing to see here, move along please.
> >
> > I would disagree - since SVG support is very important to us in the SVG
> > community and if the Mozilla team is holding it back, then the question
> > becomes what can we do to encourage them along. Answer:
Sorry for my pessimism but I don't want developers to underestimate the
importantance of proper release builds that users can have some measure of
confidence in. "Release early release often" means a lot more than
providing CVS access or nightly builds (although that is helpful) proper
release builds are needed too.
I can certainly agree that pro-active approach would be much more
productive. I dont want to sound too much like I'm volunteering though so
I try to be very careful about making such suggestions myself.
> > 1) Promote (and yes I mean stick a link right on the home page of Inkscape)
> > the use of a beta version with SVG amongst the SVG community to help the
> > Mozilla team flush out SVG bugs (this is what I meant by promoting an
I think we should promote all browsers that support SVG, perhaps even
ranking them by whichever we consider best (presumably IE would get a low
score for requiring the Adobe SVG plugin).
Agree...
> I tend to agree with you, but I also don't want to anger moz
svg and moz
> ppl. in general by seeming too radical in bent. I think that we should
I think the Inkscape community has enough smart people to call us out if
we are being too radical and check we are being polite enough not to hurt
our own cause (good management includes telling people when they are out
of line, I'm surprised though how little that is needed here as the
development culture is already very accepting of change).
True...
> promote SVG more than we are currently. Right now we basically
using SVG
> as a file format for illustration/drawing and are not capitalizing on it
> as a dynamic/interactive major web format. Imagine surfing all SVG web
> pages! We really need to think about how we are emphasizing SVG. I'm
> open to more suggestions.
Some sort of "Save for Web" even a Web Preview that wraps an SVG in a
small amoutn of XHTML and opens a browser might be helpful here.
This is a really good idea. Could you file an RFE against this. This is
a great idea, even though you don't need to wrap SVG in html to get it
to work. I think though that would help get across the concept that
these are for web. Personally, I think our export should expand to also
export jpg, tiff, and svg in html....
> I think one good approach would be to develop a strategy
between
> Openclipart.org, Inkscape and mozilla svg to support SVG in the browser.
> This could take the form of some web buttons/banners and a page
I'm not sure a browser specific push in necessarily the best way to go, I
think we should promote the browsers that are best for SVG.
Agree...don't want to be biased towards specific browsers, but rather
implementation. In fact, if IE came out with full SVG support, I would
be pretty supportive of that browser.
> supporting adoption. This could be housed either on
Openclipart.org or
> Inkscape.org. Do you know how to edit our webpage? Are there any
> volunteers to push this? Look at how Firefox has the
> spreadfirefox.org...why don't you start something like spreadsvg.org !
spreadsvg.org? I think you misspelled openclipart.org ;)
OOps...
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jon@...235...
http://www.rejon.org
Inkscape (http://inkscape.org)
Open Clip Art Library (www.openclipart.org)
CVS Book (http://cvsbook.ucsd.edu)
Scale Journal (http://scale.ucsd.edu)
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participants (4)
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Jon Phillips