Re: [Inkscape-user] Inkscape can be extremely frustrating

> A better solution is to revert to a default value only if there is no

It is not necessary to make invisible shapes to use text on path. In fact it's not a good idea to do that because then the user can not easily select the shape for rotation. Though I think there is quite a bit wrong with the text on path implementation in the first place. The solution should not require new users to learn/deal with a bad workflow just to prevent a single problem. A better solution is to revert to a default value only if there is no stroke or fill specified. This is because it is always an error to draw invisible shapes. It's arguable whether it's a good idea to hide shapes by giving them no fill and no stroke, after they are drawn, but it is *always* an error to draw a new shape with no fill and stroke. On Sun, 2 Sep 2018, 01:07 brynn, <brynn@...3089...> wrote: > Invisible shapes are occassionally needed. For example, text on path. > Another > example, custom stripe pattern. > > However, the problem is new users. They find that they can make > invisible > objects, so they do. Then they forget that they did. Then they can't > draw > anything anymore. > > I still like Patrick's suggestion in the bug report > (https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1704777) It helps in only a > certain > situation, and does not impair accidentally in other situations. > > All best, > brynn > > -----Original Message----- > From: C R > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2018 5:03 PM > To: Inkscape User Community > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] Inkscape can be extremely frustrating > > > Or don't use invisible objects. I think thats still the better solution. > They > are not needed for anything, and having to sort through potentially > thousands of > objects to find the invisible ones, is so so very not worth it. :) > > PS- easier way to see invisible objects is View > Display Mode > Outline > imho, this is also so very not worth it. > > Don't use invisible shapes, people. It's bad, mkay? ;) > -C > > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 11:39 PM Victor Westmann < > victor.westmann@...155...> > wrote: > > Guys, > > To see whatever object you have on Inkscape canvas, doesn't matter if > invisible > or not, just go to "Object" > "Objects...". > All of the objects will be there. > > I was the one that requested this feature way and was REALLY glad this > was > implemented! Extremely handy feature. > > Just like the Blender panel with all of the objects present in the > Blender > viewports. > > ;-) > > > > > --Victor Westmann > > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 3:17 PM, Maren Hachmann <maren@...3112...> > wrote: > Am 30.08.2018 um 23:01 schrieb C R: > > > It can't ever catch all the cases, though. Layers? Groups? Too much > > blur? A clip or mask? Other objects above in a different layer? > There > > are so many of those that cause drawing invisible objects, and > Inkscape > > doesn't help with determining the cause (btw. opacity at 0 is the > most > > frequent cause, esp. as there is a bug about the opacity indicator > field > > in the current stable version, after that comes 'fill alpha at 0'. > 'no > > stroke, no fill' is a lot rarer, in my experience). > > > > > > I'm sure we can catch some or most of these. I still maintain it's an > > error to draw a shape with no fill and no stroke, regardless of the > > reason ... with the possible exception of masking or clipping. I don't > > see how groups would be a problem unless the group were set to 0% > > opacity... > > - Happens, unfortunately. And people don't notice they are in one when > they try to draw something. > > > another thing whic is inadvisable for all the same reasons. > > :) Regardless, if the user hits escape twice, it exits out of any groups > > etc. We should make sure that at least in this condition, where nothing > > else is interfering, the user is able to draw visible shapes effectively > > without having to tweak anything to see what they are drawing. :) > > > > > > > > - It might be inadvisable, but it's quick and a way that is > currently > > available to change the line width of a line drawing (like a simple > > cartoon). I wasn't talking about gradients, and also not about shape > > properties. > > > > > > A better method is to enter the group, select all, and adjust the > > line-width there. Being able to set the stroke, but not stroke gradient, > > or fill but not fill gradient on a group is inconsistent behaviour and > > needs to be fixed one way or the other - either the group is treated > > like selecting all its contents, or the group needs to be treated like a > > separate shape. Right now its both, and is confusing and inconsistent > UX. > > - I can set the fill and stroke gradient for a group just fine (in both > master and 0.92.x), what are the cases in which this doesn't work? > > Your suggested change can make some actions take a lot longer, because > one needs to select only objects that have a stroke in a group, to > change their stroke width. > > > > > > > I just don't expect Inkscape to add a stroke when I change the line > > width - I understand that it might help new users, but it's also > > illogical. > > > > > > Currently, if the user adjusts the line width and there's no stroke, the > > value is thrown away entirely. That's absolutely apalling UX. :) > > - It doesn't do that for me in 0.92.x, which I routinely use. But the > behavior is new in master - and I just noticed someone removed the > stroke width indicator in the lower left corner! Why was that removed? I > use it so often for quick adjustments. > > I think these are bugs. This can't be intentional... > > Maren > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! > http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user > <http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________In... > mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user