All I want to do to begin with is draw a simple Line Circle. (white background with white inside the circle). But instead it draws a dashed-rectangle with (4) little squares.  Two squares are on the rectangle and the other two are outside. So, I go into: Edit, Preferences and the Circle it not even listed under Shapes!   Crazy. Does anybody know what I should do? Thank you. Ken ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user

Hi, Sam: Thank you so much for taking the time to help me out.  I must have messed up the Circle tool some how, so I just deleted the whole program and re-installed it again.  Then it worked the way it was suppose to.  But I still needed help to get the Line to show up.  That was a good video; just wished they added narration (would have made it a little easier). Do you know of any way to save settings ?  They always seem to divert back to the way they were.  This is a great software program once one really learns how to use it.  Ken On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 9:47 PM Sam <dersam24@...155... <mailto:dersam24@...155...>> wrote: Hi Ken, You need the shape tool. In Windows you can use the F5 key to activate the circle tool, and then use Shift + CTRL + F to open the properties window. In this window you can set the background color of the circle and the color of the line. Here's a video on YouTube. https://youtu.be/eigHcF_KLKE Sam Am 28.08.2018 um 06:30 schrieb K B: > All I want to do to begin with is draw a simple Line Circle. > (white background with white inside the circle). > > But instead it draws a dashed-rectangle with (4) little squares.  > Two squares are on the rectangle and the other two are outside.  > So, I go into: Edit, Preferences and the Circle it not even listed > under Shapes!   Crazy. > > Does anybody know what I should do? > > Thank you. > > Ken > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user

Hi, Brynn: Thank you for the Link about the Bug fix. Since Inkscape is free, maybe the creators are not very motivated to fix everything about it ? If it were a high price program like Adobe Illustrator, there would have enough money to pay programmers to fix it and make it better. Ken On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:47 PM brynn <brynn@...3089...> wrote: > Some developers may remember a message I posted to the mailing lists some > time > ago, maybe a year or 2 ago, asking to have at least some of the tools set > for > Own Style (by default) rather than Last Used, to prevent this kind of > utter > confusion among new users. > > At first, on the mailing list, some developers sort of hijacked it into > their > own different project. > > But ultimately (in a bug report) one developer suggested a reasonable > solution. > See this bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1704777 > > If anyone else (developers) could chime in on that solution, perhaps we > could > get it coded into one of the next new versions, and prevent this type of > headache for new users? > > Thank you very much, > brynn > > -----Original Message----- > From: K B > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 10:30 PM > To: inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: [Inkscape-user] Inkscape can be extremely frustrating > > > All I want to do to begin with is draw a simple Line Circle. (white > background > with white inside the circle). > > But instead it draws a dashed-rectangle with (4) little squares. Two > squares > are on the rectangle and the other two are outside. So, I go into: Edit, > Preferences and the Circle it not even listed under Shapes! Crazy. > > Does anybody know what I should do? > > Thank you. > > Ken > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user

Brynn/CR: I agree with you 100%. I can still remember when I first used it; it was so frustrating! It did not preform like you think it would. I also was just trying to use the eraser, but it did not erase part of the image like I thought it would. If I had a lot of extra money, I would probably just start using Adobe's Illustrator. Ken On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 1:48 AM C R <cajhne@...155...> wrote: > The problem is there is no agreed upon solution. But I think Inkscape > should never draw an invisible object anyway. > > Particularly, > > 1. If both fill and stroke are set to none, Inkscape should resort to the > Inkscape default setting of the bezier tool, which is black and white > without dashed lines. Drawing an invisible shape is an error. > > 2. If the user modifies the line width, and the line is set to "none", > Inkscape should set the colour of the line to the Inkscape default : black. > > I think this is a better solution than setting the default behaviour of > Inkscape to a bad workflow - users should not be getting used to having to > change the colour of the line and stroke each and every time they draw > something. It is not intuitive because when you draw in real life you pick > up a pen which is the colour you want and draw with it until you are done, > then choose another colour when you want a different one. > > > -C > > On Thu, 30 Aug 2018, 07:59 K B, <kmb999@...155...> wrote: > >> Hi, Brynn: >> Thank you for the Link about the Bug fix. Since Inkscape is free, maybe >> the creators >> are not very motivated to fix everything about it ? >> >> If it were a high price program like Adobe Illustrator, there would have >> enough money to >> pay programmers to fix it and make it better. >> >> Ken >> >> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:47 PM brynn <brynn@...3089...> wrote: >> >>> Some developers may remember a message I posted to the mailing lists >>> some time >>> ago, maybe a year or 2 ago, asking to have at least some of the tools >>> set for >>> Own Style (by default) rather than Last Used, to prevent this kind of >>> utter >>> confusion among new users. >>> >>> At first, on the mailing list, some developers sort of hijacked it into >>> their >>> own different project. >>> >>> But ultimately (in a bug report) one developer suggested a reasonable >>> solution. >>> See this bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1704777 >>> >>> If anyone else (developers) could chime in on that solution, perhaps we >>> could >>> get it coded into one of the next new versions, and prevent this type >>> of >>> headache for new users? >>> >>> Thank you very much, >>> brynn >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: K B >>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 10:30 PM >>> To: inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>> Subject: [Inkscape-user] Inkscape can be extremely frustrating >>> >>> >>> All I want to do to begin with is draw a simple Line Circle. (white >>> background >>> with white inside the circle). >>> >>> But instead it draws a dashed-rectangle with (4) little squares. Two >>> squares >>> are on the rectangle and the other two are outside. So, I go into: >>> Edit, >>> Preferences and the Circle it not even listed under Shapes! Crazy. >>> >>> Does anybody know what I should do? >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Inkscape-user mailing list >>> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Inkscape-user mailing list >>> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> _______________________________________________ >> Inkscape-user mailing list >> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user

C R: I guess I was looking to do some real simple basic stuff and came into a very robust program with many bells and whistles that made it more complicated and harder to learn. Wished they had a "Lite version" so I could get up and running right away. I am not a professional illustrator, just want to create fairly simple Line Designs. Ken On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 2:42 AM C R <cajhne@...155...> wrote: > We are working hard to make it better and easier and more intuitive to > use. You can certainly help our efforts by donation to the project - every > little bit helps. > > In the meantime it's probably easier to learn Inkscape's quirks and just > work around them for now. I've been using Inkscape as a professional > designer for over 7 years now, and once you get the hang of it, it's not so > bad. A lot of bugs have been fixed since I first started using it, and lots > of new features added. Mostly I'm grateful for devs who have helped and > continue to help solve problems, and help where I can, and for community > members who help users and make videos on how to use Inkscape. > > Your feedback also helps, so thanks for bringing it to our attention! > > -C > > On Thu, 30 Aug 2018, 10:27 K B, <kmb999@...155...> wrote: > >> Brynn/CR: >> >> I agree with you 100%. I can still remember when I first used it; it was >> so frustrating! It did not preform like you think it would. I also was >> just trying >> to use the eraser, but it did not erase part of the image like I thought >> it would. >> If I had a lot of extra money, I would probably just start using Adobe's >> Illustrator. >> Ken >> >> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 1:48 AM C R <cajhne@...155...> wrote: >> >>> The problem is there is no agreed upon solution. But I think Inkscape >>> should never draw an invisible object anyway. >>> >>> Particularly, >>> >>> 1. If both fill and stroke are set to none, Inkscape should resort to >>> the Inkscape default setting of the bezier tool, which is black and white >>> without dashed lines. Drawing an invisible shape is an error. >>> >>> 2. If the user modifies the line width, and the line is set to "none", >>> Inkscape should set the colour of the line to the Inkscape default : black. >>> >>> I think this is a better solution than setting the default behaviour of >>> Inkscape to a bad workflow - users should not be getting used to having to >>> change the colour of the line and stroke each and every time they draw >>> something. It is not intuitive because when you draw in real life you pick >>> up a pen which is the colour you want and draw with it until you are done, >>> then choose another colour when you want a different one. >>> >>> >>> -C >>> >>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2018, 07:59 K B, <kmb999@...155...> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Brynn: >>>> Thank you for the Link about the Bug fix. Since Inkscape is free, >>>> maybe the creators >>>> are not very motivated to fix everything about it ? >>>> >>>> If it were a high price program like Adobe Illustrator, there would >>>> have enough money to >>>> pay programmers to fix it and make it better. >>>> >>>> Ken >>>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:47 PM brynn <brynn@...3089...> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Some developers may remember a message I posted to the mailing lists >>>>> some time >>>>> ago, maybe a year or 2 ago, asking to have at least some of the tools >>>>> set for >>>>> Own Style (by default) rather than Last Used, to prevent this kind of >>>>> utter >>>>> confusion among new users. >>>>> >>>>> At first, on the mailing list, some developers sort of hijacked it >>>>> into their >>>>> own different project. >>>>> >>>>> But ultimately (in a bug report) one developer suggested a reasonable >>>>> solution. >>>>> See this bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ >>>>> inkscape/+bug/1704777 >>>>> >>>>> If anyone else (developers) could chime in on that solution, perhaps >>>>> we could >>>>> get it coded into one of the next new versions, and prevent this type >>>>> of >>>>> headache for new users? >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much, >>>>> brynn >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: K B >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 10:30 PM >>>>> To: inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>>>> Subject: [Inkscape-user] Inkscape can be extremely frustrating >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> All I want to do to begin with is draw a simple Line Circle. (white >>>>> background >>>>> with white inside the circle). >>>>> >>>>> But instead it draws a dashed-rectangle with (4) little squares. Two >>>>> squares >>>>> are on the rectangle and the other two are outside. So, I go into: >>>>> Edit, >>>>> Preferences and the Circle it not even listed under Shapes! Crazy. >>>>> >>>>> Does anybody know what I should do? >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> Ken >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ------------------ >>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Inkscape-user mailing list >>>>> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ------------------ >>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Inkscape-user mailing list >>>>> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >>>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> ------------------ >>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot______ >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> Inkscape-user mailing list >>>> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot______ >>> _________________________________________ >>> Inkscape-user mailing list >>> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------ >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot______ >> _________________________________________ >> Inkscape-user mailing list >> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >> > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot______ > _________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user

draw a circle adjust outline to 3mm Set stroke paint to "none" *Stroke width now indicates 0.000*

Victor: Thank you! I did not know about the Logos by Nick videos. Ken On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 11:59 AM Victor Westmann < victor.westmann@...155...> wrote: > Hi ken, > > Inkscape it is really amazing and can do a ton of things... you just have > to take some time to learn it. > > I would say that watching the Channel "Logos by Nick" on youtube is a > really good start. > > He teaches things from begin to end and teaches a lot of cool stuff. > > Wish you all the best, > > > > --Victor Westmann > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 11:53 AM, K B <kmb999@...155...> wrote: > >> C R: >> I guess I was looking to do some real simple basic stuff and came into a >> very robust program with many bells and whistles that made it more >> complicated >> and harder to learn. Wished they had a "Lite version" so I could get up >> and running >> right away. I am not a professional illustrator, just want to create >> fairly simple Line Designs. >> >> Ken >> >> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 2:42 AM C R <cajhne@...155...> wrote: >> >>> We are working hard to make it better and easier and more intuitive to >>> use. You can certainly help our efforts by donation to the project - every >>> little bit helps. >>> >>> In the meantime it's probably easier to learn Inkscape's quirks and >>> just work around them for now. I've been using Inkscape as a professional >>> designer for over 7 years now, and once you get the hang of it, it's not so >>> bad. A lot of bugs have been fixed since I first started using it, and lots >>> of new features added. Mostly I'm grateful for devs who have helped and >>> continue to help solve problems, and help where I can, and for community >>> members who help users and make videos on how to use Inkscape. >>> >>> Your feedback also helps, so thanks for bringing it to our attention! >>> >>> -C >>> >>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2018, 10:27 K B, <kmb999@...155...> wrote: >>> >>>> Brynn/CR: >>>> >>>> I agree with you 100%. I can still remember when I first used it; it >>>> was >>>> so frustrating! It did not preform like you think it would. I also >>>> was just trying >>>> to use the eraser, but it did not erase part of the image like I >>>> thought it would. >>>> If I had a lot of extra money, I would probably just start using >>>> Adobe's Illustrator. >>>> Ken >>>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 1:48 AM C R <cajhne@...155...> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The problem is there is no agreed upon solution. But I think Inkscape >>>>> should never draw an invisible object anyway. >>>>> >>>>> Particularly, >>>>> >>>>> 1. If both fill and stroke are set to none, Inkscape should resort to >>>>> the Inkscape default setting of the bezier tool, which is black and white >>>>> without dashed lines. Drawing an invisible shape is an error. >>>>> >>>>> 2. If the user modifies the line width, and the line is set to >>>>> "none", Inkscape should set the colour of the line to the Inkscape default >>>>> : black. >>>>> >>>>> I think this is a better solution than setting the default behaviour >>>>> of Inkscape to a bad workflow - users should not be getting used to having >>>>> to change the colour of the line and stroke each and every time they draw >>>>> something. It is not intuitive because when you draw in real life you pick >>>>> up a pen which is the colour you want and draw with it until you are done, >>>>> then choose another colour when you want a different one. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -C >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2018, 07:59 K B, <kmb999@...155...> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Brynn: >>>>>> Thank you for the Link about the Bug fix. Since Inkscape is free, >>>>>> maybe the creators >>>>>> are not very motivated to fix everything about it ? >>>>>> >>>>>> If it were a high price program like Adobe Illustrator, there would >>>>>> have enough money to >>>>>> pay programmers to fix it and make it better. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ken >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:47 PM brynn <brynn@...3089...> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Some developers may remember a message I posted to the mailing >>>>>>> lists some time >>>>>>> ago, maybe a year or 2 ago, asking to have at least some of the >>>>>>> tools set for >>>>>>> Own Style (by default) rather than Last Used, to prevent this kind >>>>>>> of utter >>>>>>> confusion among new users. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At first, on the mailing list, some developers sort of hijacked it >>>>>>> into their >>>>>>> own different project. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But ultimately (in a bug report) one developer suggested a >>>>>>> reasonable solution. >>>>>>> See this bug report: >>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1704777 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If anyone else (developers) could chime in on that solution, >>>>>>> perhaps we could >>>>>>> get it coded into one of the next new versions, and prevent this >>>>>>> type of >>>>>>> headache for new users? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you very much, >>>>>>> brynn >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: K B >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 10:30 PM >>>>>>> To: inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>>>>>> Subject: [Inkscape-user] Inkscape can be extremely frustrating >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All I want to do to begin with is draw a simple Line Circle. (white >>>>>>> background >>>>>>> with white inside the circle). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But instead it draws a dashed-rectangle with (4) little squares. >>>>>>> Two squares >>>>>>> are on the rectangle and the other two are outside. So, I go into: >>>>>>> Edit, >>>>>>> Preferences and the Circle it not even listed under Shapes! Crazy. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does anybody know what I should do? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ken >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Inkscape-user mailing list >>>>>>> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Inkscape-user mailing list >>>>>>> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Inkscape-user mailing list >>>>>> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Inkscape-user mailing list >>>>> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >>>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Inkscape-user mailing list >>>> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Inkscape-user mailing list >>> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> _______________________________________________ >> Inkscape-user mailing list >> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user

On Thu, 2018-08-30 at 21:04 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote: > I have read through a dozens of requests for help with invisible > objects, and not one nooB indicated that they had gone through the > tutorials in the help menu (or even the first tutorial). This > suggests that users who have actually gone through the tutorials are > not having these types of issues. I'm an Inkscape developer and I get frustrated when I try and draw shapes and lines and they're invisible. It's infuriating to have styles flow over from one document to another and I suspect that if we ran it as a UX battery of tests, we'd be able to see user's not expecting this kind of behaviour. There's just a lot of problems with the way we save styles. Currently all my text has a -2 char spacing and -10 line spacing. Lord only knows how it got into that state, but it's not clear at all how to put it back except by killing the preferences with fire. Martin, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user

kb, no starch press sells the book, "the book of inkscape, the definitive gude to the free graphics editor" by dmitry kirsanov. he is a core inkscape developer, author and graphic designer, specializing in website and logo design. here's a review. https://wordpress.com/post/wdalford.wordpress.com/5 cheers, dwain On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 1:53 PM, K B <kmb999@...155...> wrote: > C R: > I guess I was looking to do some real simple basic stuff and came into a > very robust program with many bells and whistles that made it more > complicated > and harder to learn. Wished they had a "Lite version" so I could get up > and running > right away. I am not a professional illustrator, just want to create > fairly simple Line Designs. > > Ken > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 2:42 AM C R <cajhne@...155...> wrote: > >> We are working hard to make it better and easier and more intuitive to >> use. You can certainly help our efforts by donation to the project - every >> little bit helps. >> >> In the meantime it's probably easier to learn Inkscape's quirks and just >> work around them for now. I've been using Inkscape as a professional >> designer for over 7 years now, and once you get the hang of it, it's not so >> bad. A lot of bugs have been fixed since I first started using it, and lots >> of new features added. Mostly I'm grateful for devs who have helped and >> continue to help solve problems, and help where I can, and for community >> members who help users and make videos on how to use Inkscape. >> >> Your feedback also helps, so thanks for bringing it to our attention! >> >> -C >> >> On Thu, 30 Aug 2018, 10:27 K B, <kmb999@...155...> wrote: >> >>> Brynn/CR: >>> >>> I agree with you 100%. I can still remember when I first used it; it >>> was >>> so frustrating! It did not preform like you think it would. I also >>> was just trying >>> to use the eraser, but it did not erase part of the image like I >>> thought it would. >>> If I had a lot of extra money, I would probably just start using >>> Adobe's Illustrator. >>> Ken >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 1:48 AM C R <cajhne@...155...> wrote: >>> >>>> The problem is there is no agreed upon solution. But I think Inkscape >>>> should never draw an invisible object anyway. >>>> >>>> Particularly, >>>> >>>> 1. If both fill and stroke are set to none, Inkscape should resort to >>>> the Inkscape default setting of the bezier tool, which is black and white >>>> without dashed lines. Drawing an invisible shape is an error. >>>> >>>> 2. If the user modifies the line width, and the line is set to "none", >>>> Inkscape should set the colour of the line to the Inkscape default : black. >>>> >>>> I think this is a better solution than setting the default behaviour >>>> of Inkscape to a bad workflow - users should not be getting used to having >>>> to change the colour of the line and stroke each and every time they draw >>>> something. It is not intuitive because when you draw in real life you pick >>>> up a pen which is the colour you want and draw with it until you are done, >>>> then choose another colour when you want a different one. >>>> >>>> >>>> -C >>>> >>>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2018, 07:59 K B, <kmb999@...155...> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Brynn: >>>>> Thank you for the Link about the Bug fix. Since Inkscape is free, >>>>> maybe the creators >>>>> are not very motivated to fix everything about it ? >>>>> >>>>> If it were a high price program like Adobe Illustrator, there would >>>>> have enough money to >>>>> pay programmers to fix it and make it better. >>>>> >>>>> Ken >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:47 PM brynn <brynn@...3089...> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Some developers may remember a message I posted to the mailing lists >>>>>> some time >>>>>> ago, maybe a year or 2 ago, asking to have at least some of the >>>>>> tools set for >>>>>> Own Style (by default) rather than Last Used, to prevent this kind >>>>>> of utter >>>>>> confusion among new users. >>>>>> >>>>>> At first, on the mailing list, some developers sort of hijacked it >>>>>> into their >>>>>> own different project. >>>>>> >>>>>> But ultimately (in a bug report) one developer suggested a >>>>>> reasonable solution. >>>>>> See this bug report: >>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1704777 >>>>>> >>>>>> If anyone else (developers) could chime in on that solution, perhaps >>>>>> we could >>>>>> get it coded into one of the next new versions, and prevent this >>>>>> type of >>>>>> headache for new users? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you very much, >>>>>> brynn >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: K B >>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 10:30 PM >>>>>> To: inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>>>>> Subject: [Inkscape-user] Inkscape can be extremely frustrating >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> All I want to do to begin with is draw a simple Line Circle. (white >>>>>> background >>>>>> with white inside the circle). >>>>>> >>>>>> But instead it draws a dashed-rectangle with (4) little squares. >>>>>> Two squares >>>>>> are on the rectangle and the other two are outside. So, I go into: >>>>>> Edit, >>>>>> Preferences and the Circle it not even listed under Shapes! Crazy. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does anybody know what I should do? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ken >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Inkscape-user mailing list >>>>>> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Inkscape-user mailing list >>>>>> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Inkscape-user mailing list >>>>> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >>>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Inkscape-user mailing list >>>> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Inkscape-user mailing list >>> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> _______________________________________________ >> Inkscape-user mailing list >> Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user

On Thu, 2018-08-30 at 02:26 -0700, K B wrote: > If I had a lot of extra money, I would probably just start using > Adobe's Illustrator. All software has issues, Adobe Illustrator included. Have you used Illustrator before? Were you trained on it? We find people who come from Corel Draw have an easier time with Inkscape's interface and people from Illustrator have a harder time. Martin, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user

> 1. If both fill and stroke are set to none, Inkscape should resort to > the Inkscape default setting of the bezier tool, which is black and > white without dashed lines. Drawing an invisible shape is an error. > > 2. If the user modifies the line width, and the line is set to "none",> Inkscape should set the colour of the line to the Inkscape default : black. 1. CR, how would users create invisible objects that are needed, then? (e.g. for alignment, or for text-on-path etc.?)

width, and then suddenly some get a black contour... Imagine having a group, for example, with stroked and unstroked objects.

I'd prefer keeping as is / having a noob mode that enables these kinds of helps / or putting the stroke style dialog and the stroke color dialog in a way that one can clearly see that there's no color assigned, when changing the stroke width (I always found it annoying that those are separate...).

Maren > I think this is a better solution than setting the default behaviour of > Inkscape to a bad workflow - users should not be getting used to having > to change the colour of the line and stroke each and every time they > draw something. It is not intuitive because when you draw in real life > you pick up a pen which is the colour you want and draw with it until > you are done, then choose another colour when you want a different one. > > > -C > > On Thu, 30 Aug 2018, 07:59 K B, <kmb999@...155... > <mailto:kmb999@...155...>> wrote: > > Hi, Brynn: > Thank you for the Link about the Bug fix. Since Inkscape is free, > maybe the creators > are not very motivated to fix everything about it ? > > If it were a high price program like Adobe Illustrator, there would > have enough money to > pay programmers to fix it and make it better. > > Ken > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:47 PM brynn <brynn@...3089... > <mailto:brynn@...3089...>> wrote: > > Some developers may remember a message I posted to the mailing > lists some time > ago, maybe a year or 2 ago, asking to have at least some of the > tools set for > Own Style (by default) rather than Last Used, to prevent this > kind of utter > confusion among new users. > > At first, on the mailing list, some developers sort of hijacked > it into their > own different project. > > But ultimately (in a bug report) one developer suggested a > reasonable solution. > See this bug report: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1704777 > > If anyone else (developers) could chime in on that solution, > perhaps we could > get it coded into one of the next new versions, and prevent this > type of > headache for new users? > > Thank you very much, > brynn > > -----Original Message----- > From: K B > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 10:30 PM > To: inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > <mailto:inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net> > Subject: [Inkscape-user] Inkscape can be extremely frustrating > > > All I want to do to begin with is draw a simple Line Circle. > (white background > with white inside the circle). > > But instead it draws a dashed-rectangle with (4) little > squares. Two squares > are on the rectangle and the other two are outside. So, I go > into: Edit, > Preferences and the Circle it not even listed under Shapes! Crazy. > > Does anybody know what I should do? > > Thank you. > > Ken > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! > http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user

- I think I'll demo what I need for alignment on the hackfest, then you can give advice that is more suited to the real case (these don't work, esp. not if you're dealing with clones or symbols). I now understand that you're restricting this suggestion to *drawing* invisible objects (vs. creating them, or allowing them in the document) - so that's probably fine with most people :)

It can't ever catch all the cases, though. Layers? Groups? Too much blur? A clip or mask? Other objects above in a different layer? There are so many of those that cause drawing invisible objects, and Inkscape doesn't help with determining the cause (btw. opacity at 0 is the most frequent cause, esp. as there is a bug about the opacity indicator field in the current stable version, after that comes 'fill alpha at 0'. 'no stroke, no fill' is a lot rarer, in my experience).

- It might be inadvisable, but it's quick and a way that is currently available to change the line width of a line drawing (like a simple cartoon). I wasn't talking about gradients, and also not about shape properties.

I just don't expect Inkscape to add a stroke when I change the line width - I understand that it might help new users, but it's also illogical.

Turning one knob should only change that knob's value, not anything else. I find /that/ confusing. It also may become quite annoying to people who do animations and other scripting stuff, and who might need 'none' lines with a certain width, for example... And now don't say "They can just remove it again" :-)

> Yes, that's sort of where the conversation ended last time. Its one of > my to do list items to re-think the colour fill/stroke indicators to > include helpful things that let the user know what's going on without > having to call up the fill/stroke dialogue. - Sounds good! > Please correct if wrong, but I think thats what Brynn is referring to as > "derailing", but it isn't. It's just part of a good wholistic solution > which we have not sorted out yet. - Thanks for sharing your ideas!

Maren > -C > > > Maren > > > I think this is a better solution than setting the default > behaviour of > > Inkscape to a bad workflow - users should not be getting used to > having > > to change the colour of the line and stroke each and every time they > > draw something. It is not intuitive because when you draw in real life > > you pick up a pen which is the colour you want and draw with it until > > you are done, then choose another colour when you want a different > one. > > > > > > -C > > > > On Thu, 30 Aug 2018, 07:59 K B, <kmb999@...155... > <mailto:kmb999@...155...> > > <mailto:kmb999@...155... <mailto:kmb999@...155...>>> wrote: > > > > Hi, Brynn: > > Thank you for the Link about the Bug fix. Since Inkscape is free, > > maybe the creators > > are not very motivated to fix everything about it ? > > > > If it were a high price program like Adobe Illustrator, there > would > > have enough money to > > pay programmers to fix it and make it better. > > > > Ken > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:47 PM brynn <brynn@...3089... > <mailto:brynn@...3089...> > > <mailto:brynn@...3089... <mailto:brynn@...3089...>>> wrote: > > > > Some developers may remember a message I posted to the mailing > > lists some time > > ago, maybe a year or 2 ago, asking to have at least some > of the > > tools set for > > Own Style (by default) rather than Last Used, to prevent this > > kind of utter > > confusion among new users. > > > > At first, on the mailing list, some developers sort of > hijacked > > it into their > > own different project. > > > > But ultimately (in a bug report) one developer suggested a > > reasonable solution. > > See this bug report: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1704777 > > > > If anyone else (developers) could chime in on that solution, > > perhaps we could > > get it coded into one of the next new versions, and > prevent this > > type of > > headache for new users? > > > > Thank you very much, > > brynn > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: K B > > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 10:30 PM > > To: inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > <mailto:inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net> > > <mailto:inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net > <mailto:inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net>> > > Subject: [Inkscape-user] Inkscape can be extremely frustrating > > > > > > All I want to do to begin with is draw a simple Line Circle. > > (white background > > with white inside the circle). > > > > But instead it draws a dashed-rectangle with (4) little > > squares. Two squares > > are on the rectangle and the other two are outside. So, I go > > into: Edit, > > Preferences and the Circle it not even listed under > Shapes! Crazy. > > > > Does anybody know what I should do? > > > > Thank you. > > > > Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's > most > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Inkscape-user mailing list > > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net> > > <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net > <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's > most > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > _______________________________________________ > > Inkscape-user mailing list > > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net> > > <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net > <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! > > > http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________ > > Inkscape-user mailing list > > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net> > > <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net > <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Inkscape-user mailing list > > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user

Am 30.08.2018 um 23:01 schrieb C R: > It can't ever catch all the cases, though. Layers? Groups? Too much > blur? A clip or mask? Other objects above in a different layer? There > are so many of those that cause drawing invisible objects, and Inkscape > doesn't help with determining the cause (btw. opacity at 0 is the most > frequent cause, esp. as there is a bug about the opacity indicator field > in the current stable version, after that comes 'fill alpha at 0'. 'no > stroke, no fill' is a lot rarer, in my experience). > > > I'm sure we can catch some or most of these. I still maintain it's an > error to draw a shape with no fill and no stroke, regardless of the > reason ... with the possible exception of masking or clipping. I don't > see how groups would be a problem unless the group were set to 0% > opacity... - Happens, unfortunately. And people don't notice they are in one when they try to draw something. > another thing whic is inadvisable for all the same reasons. > :) Regardless, if the user hits escape twice, it exits out of any groups > etc. We should make sure that at least in this condition, where nothing > else is interfering, the user is able to draw visible shapes effectively > without having to tweak anything to see what they are drawing. :) > > > > - It might be inadvisable, but it's quick and a way that is currently > available to change the line width of a line drawing (like a simple > cartoon). I wasn't talking about gradients, and also not about shape > properties. > > > A better method is to enter the group, select all, and adjust the > line-width there. Being able to set the stroke, but not stroke gradient, > or fill but not fill gradient on a group is inconsistent behaviour and > needs to be fixed one way or the other - either the group is treated > like selecting all its contents, or the group needs to be treated like a > separate shape. Right now its both, and is confusing and inconsistent UX. - I can set the fill and stroke gradient for a group just fine (in both master and 0.92.x), what are the cases in which this doesn't work? Your suggested change can make some actions take a lot longer, because one needs to select only objects that have a stroke in a group, to change their stroke width. > > > I just don't expect Inkscape to add a stroke when I change the line > width - I understand that it might help new users, but it's also > illogical. > > > Currently, if the user adjusts the line width and there's no stroke, the > value is thrown away entirely. That's absolutely apalling UX. :) - It doesn't do that for me in 0.92.x, which I routinely use. But the behavior is new in master - and I just noticed someone removed the stroke width indicator in the lower left corner! Why was that removed? I use it so often for quick adjustments. I think these are bugs. This can't be intentional... Maren ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user

It can't ever catch all the cases, though. Layers? Groups? Too much blur? A clip or mask? Other objects above in a different layer? There are so many of those that cause drawing invisible objects, and Inkscape doesn't help with determining the cause (btw. opacity at 0 is the most frequent cause, esp. as there is a bug about the opacity indicator field in the current stable version, after that comes 'fill alpha at 0'. 'no stroke, no fill' is a lot rarer, in my experience). I'm sure we can catch some or most of these. I still maintain it's an error to draw a shape with no fill and no stroke, regardless of the reason ... with the possible exception of masking or clipping. I don't see how groups would be a problem unless the group were set to 0% opacity...

another thing whic is inadvisable for all the same reasons. :) Regardless, if the user hits escape twice, it exits out of any groups etc. We should make sure that at least in this condition, where nothing else is interfering, the user is able to draw visible shapes effectively without having to tweak anything to see what they are drawing. :) - It might be inadvisable, but it's quick and a way that is currently available to change the line width of a line drawing (like a simple cartoon). I wasn't talking about gradients, and also not about shape properties. A better method is to enter the group, select all, and adjust the line-width there. Being able to set the stroke, but not stroke gradient, or fill but not fill gradient on a group is inconsistent behaviour and needs to be fixed one way or the other - either the group is treated like selecting all its contents, or the group needs to be treated like a separate shape. Right now its both, and is confusing and inconsistent UX.

I just don't expect Inkscape to add a stroke when I change the line width - I understand that it might help new users, but it's also illogical. Currently, if the user adjusts the line width and there's no stroke, the value is thrown away entirely. That's absolutely apalling UX. :)

> A better solution is to revert to a default value only if there is no

It is not necessary to make invisible shapes to use text on path. In fact it's not a good idea to do that because then the user can not easily select the shape for rotation. Though I think there is quite a bit wrong with the text on path implementation in the first place. The solution should not require new users to learn/deal with a bad workflow just to prevent a single problem. A better solution is to revert to a default value only if there is no stroke or fill specified. This is because it is always an error to draw invisible shapes. It's arguable whether it's a good idea to hide shapes by giving them no fill and no stroke, after they are drawn, but it is *always* an error to draw a new shape with no fill and stroke. On Sun, 2 Sep 2018, 01:07 brynn, <brynn@...3089...> wrote: > Invisible shapes are occassionally needed. For example, text on path. > Another > example, custom stripe pattern. > > However, the problem is new users. They find that they can make > invisible > objects, so they do. Then they forget that they did. Then they can't > draw > anything anymore. > > I still like Patrick's suggestion in the bug report > (https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1704777) It helps in only a > certain > situation, and does not impair accidentally in other situations. > > All best, > brynn > > -----Original Message----- > From: C R > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2018 5:03 PM > To: Inkscape User Community > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] Inkscape can be extremely frustrating > > > Or don't use invisible objects. I think thats still the better solution. > They > are not needed for anything, and having to sort through potentially > thousands of > objects to find the invisible ones, is so so very not worth it. :) > > PS- easier way to see invisible objects is View > Display Mode > Outline > imho, this is also so very not worth it. > > Don't use invisible shapes, people. It's bad, mkay? ;) > -C > > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 11:39 PM Victor Westmann < > victor.westmann@...155...> > wrote: > > Guys, > > To see whatever object you have on Inkscape canvas, doesn't matter if > invisible > or not, just go to "Object" > "Objects...". > All of the objects will be there. > > I was the one that requested this feature way and was REALLY glad this > was > implemented! Extremely handy feature. > > Just like the Blender panel with all of the objects present in the > Blender > viewports. > > ;-) > > > > > --Victor Westmann > > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 3:17 PM, Maren Hachmann <maren@...3112...> > wrote: > Am 30.08.2018 um 23:01 schrieb C R: > > > It can't ever catch all the cases, though. Layers? Groups? Too much > > blur? A clip or mask? Other objects above in a different layer? > There > > are so many of those that cause drawing invisible objects, and > Inkscape > > doesn't help with determining the cause (btw. opacity at 0 is the > most > > frequent cause, esp. as there is a bug about the opacity indicator > field > > in the current stable version, after that comes 'fill alpha at 0'. > 'no > > stroke, no fill' is a lot rarer, in my experience). > > > > > > I'm sure we can catch some or most of these. I still maintain it's an > > error to draw a shape with no fill and no stroke, regardless of the > > reason ... with the possible exception of masking or clipping. I don't > > see how groups would be a problem unless the group were set to 0% > > opacity... > > - Happens, unfortunately. And people don't notice they are in one when > they try to draw something. > > > another thing whic is inadvisable for all the same reasons. > > :) Regardless, if the user hits escape twice, it exits out of any groups > > etc. We should make sure that at least in this condition, where nothing > > else is interfering, the user is able to draw visible shapes effectively > > without having to tweak anything to see what they are drawing. :) > > > > > > > > - It might be inadvisable, but it's quick and a way that is > currently > > available to change the line width of a line drawing (like a simple > > cartoon). I wasn't talking about gradients, and also not about shape > > properties. > > > > > > A better method is to enter the group, select all, and adjust the > > line-width there. Being able to set the stroke, but not stroke gradient, > > or fill but not fill gradient on a group is inconsistent behaviour and > > needs to be fixed one way or the other - either the group is treated > > like selecting all its contents, or the group needs to be treated like a > > separate shape. Right now its both, and is confusing and inconsistent > UX. > > - I can set the fill and stroke gradient for a group just fine (in both > master and 0.92.x), what are the cases in which this doesn't work? > > Your suggested change can make some actions take a lot longer, because > one needs to select only objects that have a stroke in a group, to > change their stroke width. > > > > > > > I just don't expect Inkscape to add a stroke when I change the line > > width - I understand that it might help new users, but it's also > > illogical. > > > > > > Currently, if the user adjusts the line width and there's no stroke, the > > value is thrown away entirely. That's absolutely apalling UX. :) > > - It doesn't do that for me in 0.92.x, which I routinely use. But the > behavior is new in master - and I just noticed someone removed the > stroke width indicator in the lower left corner! Why was that removed? I > use it so often for quick adjustments. > > I think these are bugs. This can't be intentional... > > Maren > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! > http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user > <http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________In... > mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user

I often push the boundaries of Inkscape and SVG, in order to hide Easter eggs in my comics, or when researching my Full Circle Magazine tutorials. But even I can't think of a time when I've ever intentionally *drawn* an invisible object. There are plenty of times when I've drawn an object and then intentionally made it invisible (e.g. for text on a path or, most recently, when creating a SMIL animation path for my next tutorial), but I always draw them as visible objects first. There are too many ways that an object could be "invisible" to catch all cases, but a simple rule of thumb might be that if both the fill and stroke are set to "none", have an alpha value of zero, or the object's opacity is zero, that the tool's default style is used. Combined with the earlier proposal about reverting to the tool's own style on start-up, this would lead to the following behaviour: 1) On starting Inkscape, creating a new image, or loading an existing one, all tools are set to "tool's own style". 2) While working on a document, "last used style" is used (unless the prefs are set to always use "tool's own style"). 3) When a drawing tool is selected and the drawn object would be invisible (based on the heuristics above, and perhaps some others), the "last used style" is modified to match the "tool's own style". It still wouldn't catch all cases - consider an alpha that's set close to, but not quite zero - but I think an approach like this would help new users whilst not particularly getting in the way of experienced users. Mark _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user

I often push the boundaries of Inkscape and SVG, in order to hide Easter eggs in my comics, or when researching my Full Circle Magazine tutorials. But even I can't think of a time when I've ever intentionally *drawn* an invisible object. There are plenty of times when I've drawn an object and then intentionally made it invisible (e.g. for text on a path or, most recently, when creating a SMIL animation path for my next tutorial), but I always draw them as visible objects first. There are too many ways that an object could be "invisible" to catch all cases, but a simple rule of thumb might be that if both the fill and stroke are set to "none", have an alpha value of zero, or the object's opacity is zero, that the tool's default style is used. Combined with the earlier proposal about reverting to the tool's own style on start-up, this would lead to the following behaviour: 1) On starting Inkscape, creating a new image, or loading an existing one, all tools are set to "tool's own style". 2) While working on a document, "last used style" is used (unless the prefs are set to always use "tool's own style"). 3) When a drawing tool is selected and the drawn object would be invisible (based on the heuristics above, and perhaps some others), the "last used style" is modified to match the "tool's own style". It still wouldn't catch all cases - consider an alpha that's set close to, but not quite zero - but I think an approach like this would help new users whilst not particularly getting in the way of experienced users. Mark _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user

Speaking as a software developer myself, I can say that wordiness in bug reports, although not a "problem" as such, can sometimes act as a deterrent. It's the same reason that "me too" comments on bug reports are discouraged. Generally it's a lot easier for a developer to get to work on an issue that succinctly describes the nature of the problem, and the proposed remedy, rather than one that requires reading through a longer discussion, possibly having to pick out relevant parts from multiple comments.

reports, although not a "problem" as such, can sometimes act as a deterrent. It's the same reason that "me too" comments on bug reports are discouraged. Generally it's a lot easier for a developer to get to work on an issue that succinctly describes the nature of the problem, and the proposed remedy, rather than one that requires reading through a longer discussion, possibly having to pick out relevant parts from multiple comments.

Tested this in 0.92.3, which is the only version of Inkscape which currently works on Ubuntu 18.04 sadly. :(