Am 30.08.2018 um 21:09 schrieb C R:
> 1. If both fill and stroke are set to none, Inkscape should resort to > the Inkscape default setting of the bezier tool, which is black and > white without dashed lines. Drawing an invisible shape is an error. > > 2. If the user modifies the line width, and the line is set to "none",> Inkscape should set the colour of the line to the Inkscape default : black. 1. CR, how would users create invisible objects that are needed, then? (e.g. for alignment, or for text-on-path etc.?)One would not. The user would never need to draw a shape they can neither see nor select. One would use a regular old visible object and do the inadvisable thing of making them without fill and stroke after the fact, which makes them not only completely hidden, but non selectable either.
For alignment, it's better to have visible shapes on a separate layer called "alignment" and hide the alignment shape layer when you do not want it visible. This makes it much more useful because them you can easily unhide and reselect shapes later. For one-off alignment, just delete she shape after using it for alignment, or use the shape to guides function.
There are other ways to do this too (lots), and none of them involve drawing invisible shapes.
- I think I'll demo what I need for alignment on the hackfest, then you can give advice that is more suited to the real case (these don't work, esp. not if you're dealing with clones or symbols). I now understand that you're restricting this suggestion to *drawing* invisible objects (vs. creating them, or allowing them in the document) - so that's probably fine with most people :)
It can't ever catch all the cases, though. Layers? Groups? Too much blur? A clip or mask? Other objects above in a different layer? There are so many of those that cause drawing invisible objects, and Inkscape doesn't help with determining the cause (btw. opacity at 0 is the most frequent cause, esp. as there is a bug about the opacity indicator field in the current stable version, after that comes 'fill alpha at 0'. 'no stroke, no fill' is a lot rarer, in my experience).
2. One could have multiple objects selected and be changing their line width, and then suddenly some get a black contour... Imagine having a group, for example, with stroked and unstroked objects.Not sure what this is saying. :) Changing shape properties with a group selected is another inadvisable thing to do, as it often doesn't work at all, or works not as expected (ever try to change the gradient on a shape, and it's just not working no matter what you do, only to find that its the groups gradient you are changing? Yea, no. Not good practice, and asking for trouble in Inkscape's current state.
- It might be inadvisable, but it's quick and a way that is currently available to change the line width of a line drawing (like a simple cartoon). I wasn't talking about gradients, and also not about shape properties.
I just don't expect Inkscape to add a stroke when I change the line width - I understand that it might help new users, but it's also illogical. Turning one knob should only change that knob's value, not anything else. I find /that/ confusing. It also may become quite annoying to people who do animations and other scripting stuff, and who might need 'none' lines with a certain width, for example... And now don't say "They can just remove it again" :-)
I'd prefer keeping as is / having a noob mode that enables these kinds of helps / or putting the stroke style dialog and the stroke color dialog in a way that one can clearly see that there's no color assigned, when changing the stroke width (I always found it annoying that those are separate...).Yes, that's sort of where the conversation ended last time. Its one of my to do list items to re-think the colour fill/stroke indicators to include helpful things that let the user know what's going on without having to call up the fill/stroke dialogue.
- Sounds good!
Please correct if wrong, but I think thats what Brynn is referring to as "derailing", but it isn't. It's just part of a good wholistic solution which we have not sorted out yet.
- Thanks for sharing your ideas!
Maren
-C
Maren > I think this is a better solution than setting the default behaviour of > Inkscape to a bad workflow - users should not be getting used to having > to change the colour of the line and stroke each and every time they > draw something. It is not intuitive because when you draw in real life > you pick up a pen which is the colour you want and draw with it until > you are done, then choose another colour when you want a different one. > > > -C > > On Thu, 30 Aug 2018, 07:59 K B, <kmb999@...155... <mailto:kmb999@...155...> > <mailto:kmb999@...155... <mailto:kmb999@...155...>>> wrote: > > Hi, Brynn: > Thank you for the Link about the Bug fix. Since Inkscape is free, > maybe the creators > are not very motivated to fix everything about it ? > > If it were a high price program like Adobe Illustrator, there would > have enough money to > pay programmers to fix it and make it better. > > Ken > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:47 PM brynn <brynn@...3089... <mailto:brynn@...3089...> > <mailto:brynn@...3089... <mailto:brynn@...3089...>>> wrote: > > Some developers may remember a message I posted to the mailing > lists some time > ago, maybe a year or 2 ago, asking to have at least some of the > tools set for > Own Style (by default) rather than Last Used, to prevent this > kind of utter > confusion among new users. > > At first, on the mailing list, some developers sort of hijacked > it into their > own different project. > > But ultimately (in a bug report) one developer suggested a > reasonable solution. > See this bug report: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1704777 > > If anyone else (developers) could chime in on that solution, > perhaps we could > get it coded into one of the next new versions, and prevent this > type of > headache for new users? > > Thank you very much, > brynn > > -----Original Message----- > From: K B > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 10:30 PM > To: inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net> > <mailto:inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net>> > Subject: [Inkscape-user] Inkscape can be extremely frustrating > > > All I want to do to begin with is draw a simple Line Circle. > (white background > with white inside the circle). > > But instead it draws a dashed-rectangle with (4) little > squares. Two squares > are on the rectangle and the other two are outside. So, I go > into: Edit, > Preferences and the Circle it not even listed under Shapes! Crazy. > > Does anybody know what I should do? > > Thank you. > > Ken > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net> > <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net> > <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! > http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net> > <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
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