heathenx ha scritto:

...

In a few days we plan to be ready to move all in http://www.inkscapegallery.net.

Go and spread you vector graphics around!!

Da. http://nois3lab.it http://www.inkscapegallery.net

Looks pretty good so far. Let us know when it's official.

heathenx

I will certanly announce the official release here, but i'm asking to the community to start using it, to test it, debug it and give us some feedback. It is a big project and i hope it will fit the needs of the inkscape's community but i need you to make your own part to make it good as inkscape deserves. Every web-site needs some debug work and time and this is a rich web-site so, even if i'm tired after a month of hard working on it, i still have to do this and i can't without your help. I'll repeat the test address where it is now accessible: http://test.inkscapegallery.net Happy to be an inkscaper. Thanks, Da.

Hi Joel, i really appreciate the way you suggested to change colour scheme to make it "delicate". You were really diplomatic and wise :-) and you're right when you say that

I think it's something that uniquely reflects their own tastes.

I will seriously look upon your thought, but what i did was supposed to enhance the beauty of digital images. Maybe i was wrong and i will change idea in a while, but i still think that a dark background (it's 90% grey ) and some colours used as a minimal shape makers will raise the impact of drawings. This is what i meant building such a colour scheme. I know and you know for sure how colours changes in different screens and this is a problem, cause it will really get worse with older screen or lower colour depth . So i'll keep this in my glory hole and i will see what happens. If your concern will be confirmed by other users i will change something, i promise. There's another option to be considered, we could have two or more different colour schemes allowing the user choose what he/she is disposed to... But we have to see this web-site growing before to do that. i hope my thought was articulated, it's an effort to me speaking in english with such a fine concepts. Thank you, i hope to see you in inkscape gallery soon, there's so much to say about it, we will certanly resume this speech in a while, Da.

http://www.inkscapegallery.net http://test.inkscapegallery.net

Joel Holdsworth ha scritto:

Hi!

I just wanted to say good job with this website stuff. It's really great to have people take the initiative, in this sort of way. I'm really looking forward to using your website.

A quick comment: I usually don't make comments on people's artwork, because I think it's something that uniquely reflects their own tastes. But can I make a suggestion about the theme of the website all the same: I like the shades, shapes, fonts, effects and layout you've used very much. They look pretty slick, and really innovative with it as well.

My main contention is over the Fuscia/Purple colour scheme. Colours like that make for a very strong statement, which would probably be fine for other types of website. My worry is that such a strong statement on the colour scheme will clash with, or overpower subtler colour schemes of many drawings in the site, so much so that the page will completely swamp the artwork - drawing attention away.

Can I suggest you try and pick a Hue which is slightly more neutral, and a Tone which is slightly more gentle. I think this might make the website do better justice to the user artwork - which is really the end objective.

What do you think?

Thanks for all your hard work. I appreciate it very much!

Joel Holdsworth

On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 18:06 +0100, davide|inkscapegallery wrote:

...

heathenx ha scritto:

...

...

In a few days we plan to be ready to move all in http://www.inkscapegallery.net.

Go and spread you vector graphics around!!

Da. http://nois3lab.it http://www.inkscapegallery.net

Looks pretty good so far. Let us know when it's official.

heathenx

I will certanly announce the official release here, but i'm asking to the community to start using it, to test it, debug it and give us some feedback. It is a big project and i hope it will fit the needs of the inkscape's community but i need you to make your own part to make it good as inkscape deserves. Every web-site needs some debug work and time and this is a rich web-site so, even if i'm tired after a month of hard working on it, i still have to do this and i can't without your help. I'll repeat the test address where it is now accessible: http://test.inkscapegallery.net Happy to be an inkscaper. Thanks, Da.

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Lars Behrens wrote:

davide|inkscapegallery schrieb:

...

I know and you know for sure how colours changes in different screens and this is a problem, cause it will really get worse with older screen or lower colour depth . So i'll keep this in my glory hole and i will see what happens. If your concern will be confirmed by other users i will change something, i promise.

I also think you should choose other colours. That screaming text colours are drawing to mouch away from the artwork and are also bad readable to my eyes/on my monitors.

Umm .. in this case, I have to agree. Imho it would help to just decrease the saturation of the lilac a bit. And what is this script running in the background? I am getting a notification by Firefox each time I visit the site.

Claus

That's ok, i promised and i'll do. I still think there's a lot about different colours in different screens to reach a perfect color balance, but i'll do some changes, please give me feedback after.

Especially the text on the "would you like to be..."-button and the text with the black background in the top bar.

Why that button? Text is almost white with a dark background, isn't readable? I'm going to change maybe the pink text color on the right of the images, or the purple in some titles or menu items, do you really think we need to change buttons too? Thanks, Da.

Lars Behrens ha scritto:

davide|inkscapegallery schrieb:

...

I know and you know for sure how colours changes in different screens and this is a problem, cause it will really get worse with older screen or lower colour depth . So i'll keep this in my glory hole and i will see what happens. If your concern will be confirmed by other users i will change something, i promise.

I also think you should choose other colours. That screaming text colours are drawing to mouch away from the artwork and are also bad readable to my eyes/on my monitors. Especially the text on the "would you like to be..."-button and the text with the black background in the top bar.

Cheerz Lars

davide|inkscapegallery wrote:

I will certanly announce the official release here, but i'm asking to the community to start using it, to test it, debug it and give us some feedback. It is a big project and i hope it will fit the needs of the inkscape's community but i need you to make your own part to make it good as inkscape deserves. Every web-site needs some debug work and time and this is a rich web-site so, even if i'm tired after a month of hard working on it, i still have to do this and i can't without your help.

I registered to the website, uploaded one graphic so far and found the following problems: - an entire row of buttons at the top is aligned incorrectly (I use a beta of Firefox 3), see: http://nicubunu.ro/pictures/inkscape_gallery.png - in the upload form, you use checkboxes for license, it should be radio buttons, for example why would I choose both PD and another license? - in the same place, you may consider displaying the license explanation in a tooltip or pop-up, now a lot of space is wasted; - the file selector is titled "images" this is confusing: I upload one image and then it says "If a new image is chosen, the current image will be replaced upon submitting the form", so I can upload an image or more images? - I tried to upload a SVG, it allowed me to do so but the result wasn't usable so I had to delete it and replace with a PNG, consider allowing to upload a SVG and a PNG preview (if you can't create the preview on the fly); - small typo on the same page: "then cick to upload"; - why limit images to 600x600 px? we may want to put wallpapers there; - no screenshot for this, but I also have a display error for the footer icons (CC, Drupal, nois3lab), they overlap the text.

Daniel Hulme wrote:

On Wed, Jan 23, 2008 at 05:52:04PM +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote:

...

• in the upload form, you use checkboxes for license, it should be radio

buttons, for example why would I choose both PD and another license?

No, checkboxes are correct. You wouldn't want both PD and another license, but dual-licensing in the general case is quite common. For

I know about dual licensing and understand its use in certain cases, I just don't think it is the case in this particular gallery, where the choices are: proprietary, PD and various CC licenses.

example, images uploaded to Wikimedia Commons have to be GNU FDL (or public domain, or fair-use), but if you prefer CC, or if you consider FDL too restrictive and want to license under MIT or BSD, then you can choose dual-licensing, allowing users to pick which license to use.

My understanding is that Wikimedia Commons allows CC or some other licenses whitout a need for dual-licensing http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Licensing#Acceptable_licenses

A more pertinent example: suppose you're designing the logo for a software project, like Firefox. You want to release under a CC license, but you know that CC licenses do not count as DFSG-free, so to match the rest of the project you can dual-license with CC and GPL (or whatever license the rest of the project uses).

Yup, I release that logo under a dual license and submit it as it to the proper project. But on inkscapegallery.net, where I can upload a PNG version, dual-licensing does not add anything useful.

Licenses are not mutually exclusive: they are additive. When you're working in isolation, dual-licensing is completely unnecessary, but if you're interacting with different groups of people, allowing them to choose a license gives them more freedom to use and reuse your work, which is (I suppose) your aim in using a free license in the first place,

Sure, at openclipart.org, where we encourage people to remix and the uploads are in source format (SVG), a free license make sense. At inkscapegallery.net, where all you do is to show some final results, I am not so sure.

Nicu Buculei wrote:

davide|inkscapegallery wrote:

...

Every web-site needs some debug work and time and this is a rich web-site so, even if i'm tired after a month of hard working on it, i still have to do this and i can't without your help.

I registered to the website, uploaded one graphic so far and found the following problems:

One more minor nitpick: usually such a social website have avatars for its users. For a graphic gallery avatars are even more important, they are the first sample of one's work (supposing they are made by yourself). So I think adding the ability to upload avatars would increase the friendliness of the website.

davide|inkscapegallery wrote the following on 1/23/2008 1:40 PM:

I've read the debate about licenses and i appreciated, i just want to explain what i've done and what i plan to do: the options are: PD copyright cc share alike cc attribution cc non commercial cc no derivative works

I didn't want to list thousands of licenses, just some of that but if we prefer, we can add as many we want. About checkboxes or radio buttons can't see what's the matter, the fact is that you may choose multiple values and why you want do that? Cause CC attributes are not exclusive, but i wrote that you can't use "no derivative" and "share alike" at the same time in the helps . What we need, IMO, is a little bit of code to avoid using incompatible cc attributes or licenses and this is what i plan to do.

You're perfectly right about avatar , this is another missing feature. I plan to add as soon as possible, but i'm working to populate the website, fix what it is active now and then move to www.inkscapegallery.net. After that we will keep a development area where to make changes, test new features.

I mean, software like this have been usually released as "beta", i don't want to do that but obviously there are many ideas, many projects, many features we could add to inkscape gallery while it will be already working. So i suggest to put all that is missing now in the forum, site section, and to discuss about that. After that we'll choose together which features we'd like to have in inkscape gallery and we'll work on that. Thank you, these are precious words for the project's succeed and i will keep them in high esteem. So, why don't start using forums in inkscape gallery to articulate these issues? See you in inkscape gallery, Da.

Nicu Buculei ha scritto:

...

Nicu Buculei wrote:

...

davide|inkscapegallery wrote:

...

Every web-site needs some debug work and time and this is a rich web-site so, even if i'm tired after a month of hard working on it, i still have to do this and i can't without your help.

I registered to the website, uploaded one graphic so far and found the following problems:

One more minor nitpick: usually such a social website have avatars for its users. For a graphic gallery avatars are even more important, they are the first sample of one's work (supposing they are made by yourself). So I think adding the ability to upload avatars would increase the friendliness of the website.

I would register at your site but quite frankly I am confused about which to register as: Artist, Forum User, or Registered user. What if you want to be all three?

heathenx

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:55:33 +0100, davide|inkscapegallery <davide@...2436...> wrote:

choose artist and you will be allowed to post topic in the forum too...being an artist you are allowed to everything, if you choose forum user you can't publish your drawing, instead.

Why must they choose up front? It seems like a person may reasonably be unsure whether they will want to publish drawings in advance.

-mental

First of all, thank you for the strictness of your report, maybe i was unhappy when i've read for the first time but this is exactly what i need now. I will try to answer to the many issues you remarked:

• an entire row of buttons at the top is aligned incorrectly (I use a

beta of Firefox 3), see: http://nicubunu.ro/pictures/inkscape_gallery.png

Wow, you're the second, i didn't test with firefox 3 and IMHO, it doesn't matter. This is a beta and it doesn't make sense to me working with a beta software to develop something. So, please use FF2, opera, konqueror or whatever you want that is a stable release and then inform me about layout issues (i didn't mention IE...and you know why). Hope you're not gonna find issues, obviously...

• in the same place, you may consider displaying the license explanation

in a tooltip or pop-up, now a lot of space is wasted;

Do you think that is wasted? I mean, many people not even know exactly what a license is, i wanted to explain in depth every CC attribute and these needed space, but i think it is useful "space".

• the file selector is titled "images" this is confusing: I upload one

image and then it says "If a new image is chosen, the current image will be replaced upon submitting the form", so I can upload an image or more images?

Yes, this is true i'll try to change. What happened is that i fixed the problem of "multiple values" of the image field a few days ago, i didn't notice this inchoerence and i'll try to fix. This is really a subtlety but i want to take care likewise.

• I tried to upload a SVG, it allowed me to do so but the result wasn't

usable so I had to delete it and replace with a PNG, consider allowing to upload a SVG and a PNG preview (if you can't create the preview on the fly);

Ok, this is another issue. Inkscape gallery supports bitmap and not svg (i had to say browsers, not inkscape gallery...). I didn't pretend to give full svg support to a web site that is not completely possible actually. So you have to export images and then upload to inkscape gallery. I know that others, like deviant art, provide svg support, but i know that is still incomplete and stumbling. I preferred not to fight with this, but giving a good way to show exported drawing. What i mean is that i plan to give the chance to upload the svg, maybe as an attachment if we think this to be useful. This is a poll, answer me...

• small typo on the same page: "then cick to upload";

Good, i will fix this

• why limit images to 600x600 px? we may want to put wallpapers there;

Why?Cause this was what the layout tolerated, and because we pay a "standard" hosting, we can't use web space freely, but i will see what happens, if (i'm working to have this...) many of inkscape's users will post their work and their speeches on inkscape gallery i'll consider to provide a "special" account (not the same in flickr, you won't pay) to let you post bigger images. I know this is not completely true, you may post big images in inkscape gallery even now, you just won't see the image in the original size...but i'm trusting in the user's good sense and then i will consider upgrading. This is a good point, why not opening a topic in the forum about that?

• no screenshot for this, but I also have a display error for the footer

icons (CC, Drupal, nois3lab), they overlap the text.

Do you mean with firefox 3? If not tell me exactly software and version, please

I don't know how to thank you for this, i think we can move this speeches on the web-site, i created forums for this purpose too. I know that some of you created account on inskcape gallery and i'm happy but... what are the others waiting for? I renew my invitation, this is the only self publishing software online expecially made for inkscape's users and i really hope to see this community's growth cause inkscape is great and free-software is the only way to share what is still good in this world. Thank you so much, really. Go and spread your vector graphic on inkscape gallery!!

Da. http://www.inskcapegallery.net http://test.inkscapegallery.net

Nicu Buculei ha scritto:

davide|inkscapegallery wrote:

...

I will certanly announce the official release here, but i'm asking to the community to start using it, to test it, debug it and give us some feedback. It is a big project and i hope it will fit the needs of the inkscape's community but i need you to make your own part to make it good as inkscape deserves. Every web-site needs some debug work and time and this is a rich web-site so, even if i'm tired after a month of hard working on it, i still have to do this and i can't without your help.

I registered to the website, uploaded one graphic so far and found the following problems:

• an entire row of buttons at the top is aligned incorrectly (I use a

beta of Firefox 3), see: http://nicubunu.ro/pictures/inkscape_gallery.png

• in the upload form, you use checkboxes for license, it should be radio

buttons, for example why would I choose both PD and another license?

• in the same place, you may consider displaying the license explanation

in a tooltip or pop-up, now a lot of space is wasted;

• the file selector is titled "images" this is confusing: I upload one

image and then it says "If a new image is chosen, the current image will be replaced upon submitting the form", so I can upload an image or more images?

• I tried to upload a SVG, it allowed me to do so but the result wasn't

usable so I had to delete it and replace with a PNG, consider allowing to upload a SVG and a PNG preview (if you can't create the preview on the fly);

• small typo on the same page: "then cick to upload";
• why limit images to 600x600 px? we may want to put wallpapers there;
• no screenshot for this, but I also have a display error for the footer

icons (CC, Drupal, nois3lab), they overlap the text.

Nicu Buculei ha scritto:

davide|inkscapegallery wrote:

...

maybe i was unhappy when i've read for the first time but this is exactly what i need now.

You should not be. You can see after the first image I uploaded a couple more, so this is a sign of interest. Also you should see my report as a sign of interest, if I didn't cared, deleting the entire thread without reading is very simple.

Nicu i'm sorry if i couldn't explain what i meant... I've really appreciated your report and, as you saw, i seriously considered everything you remarked. I was just trying to say that i'm really doing my best to make inkscape gallery as good as i wanted and that i've a little bit of suffering when i read that something is wrong but this isn't your fault :-)

It was a joke, i really hope that many others will do the same as you , using the website, posting their drawings and give me feedback, expecially if it's a "bugs" or issues report.

But i hope someone to consider inkscape gallery overall too, i think many of your concerns pointed to core choices and we can work on that, they are really important but there's a lot about the web site and i would really make my thought clear: inkscape gallery is a complex project, it is an high level social network software and it involved many custom solutions, many trials to make the software work as i wanted to, this means that i had to make choices, that i wasn't in a "free world" where to do what it seemed reasonable but that i've had to bend drupal to my needs.

So, i introduced you in what i've done but i wanted this to happen: receive feedback, suggestions, advices and critiques too, cause we're going to make it better, day after day, thanks to this relationship with inkscape's users and inkscape gallery's users. I would like the inkscape developers to join us, too. There's a lot we can share with inkscape.org, for example, and collaborating with them would be useful.

The point is: fix what needs to be fixed, populate the website and then release it officially. In the meantime we can imagine upgrades to come, layout improvements, features enhancement and everything to make inkscape gallery our (inkscapers) "visit card", our best inkscape's experience. But this is going to happen only if we believe that there's something new and special in the work i've done and that we will work together to improve it, to give it the best "free" ideas and skills.

...

I will try to answer to the many issues you remarked:

...

• an entire row of buttons at the top is aligned incorrectly (I use a

beta of Firefox 3), see: http://nicubunu.ro/pictures/inkscape_gallery.png

Nope, this is a wrong approach. What matters is if the problem is caused by a bug in the browser in in the site layout. In a few months FF3 will be distributed to millions of users, so the bug should be solved, either in your website or in Firefox.

Don't know if it's wrong or not, i mean, they are testing a beta software and obviously they're going to change something and their going to fix something too, we should be ready when it will be soon released, anyway, i tried with firefox 3 but i couldn't test with the beta, had to try with the alpha and everything was ok. So, it seems reasonable (the problem you noticed was pretty corny too, it is text rendering related issue basing on the screenshot) to wait for a stable release and then see if something still needs to be fixed. I'll take care of it.

Sorry, but the SVG support in FF3 is so much improved (and FF3 is so much better as a general browser compared with FF2) that is no turning back for me.

Same as before, we can start planning how to provide svg support in the future, i think that something about svg is going to happen even in the drupal development , so we start now thinking the best way to use svg in the web site but we work for a future upgrade about it. Is it reasonable?

...

...

• in the same place, you may consider displaying the license explanation

in a tooltip or pop-up, now a lot of space is wasted;

Sure, a lot of people don't know about CC licenses, but they have the opportunity to learn and make a choice about the favorite license at the first use of the site. On subsequent uses, they want to get as fast as they can to the upload form, the page space they have to scroll down is wasted. This is why I suggested explanation in pop-up windows.

I would agree with you about this, and we could choose to use a different section to show the licenses explanation. There's an easy achievement and it is already working for the italian language. Try to switch to italian and then go to the content creation, you will see a text block in the right column called instrucions (in english...) If we prefer we could do the same for the english content creation. Give me feedback about this.

...

...

• the file selector is titled "images" this is confusing: I upload one

image and then it says "If a new image is chosen, the current image will be replaced upon submitting the form", so I can upload an image or more images?

this is fixed, now is labeled: image

Look at it from this point of view: people in this community cares about SVG. If all we want to do is share our graphics, there are plenty of places where we can do that. But we want more: promote the use of SVG.

I take care too, so starting from now we will think how to do that in the "next generation" inkscape gallery web site, together.

...

...

• why limit images to 600x600 px? we may want to put wallpapers there;

Why?Cause this was what the layout tolerated, and because we pay a

Then is a problem with your layout.

I didn't say this earlier being afraid you will take it the wrong way, as a flamewar: the layout of your site, with one fixed-width column is not that good. I paid good money for a wide screen LCD and your site display content ony over half of my screen. And it does not allow me to post images made for display on my screen.

Don't worry about how i'm taking this... It was my choice to do something not only for me but for a community and you can share any thought or criticism about it, i just hope you're doing this not to blow upon it. I know that you work in web-design too, and you certainly considered how hard is to provide the best visualization on such a different screens, resolutions, colour depths and more. I tell you what i meant choosing this kind of web-layout, you're allowed to keep thinking that my layout has a problem, anyway: I started planning to do a simple blog like web site and i finished to build a "little monster" and i don't even know how it happened =-O . So fixed width was the starting point, i could choose any different layout but what would have been good for you would be wrong or broken or simply uncomfortable for others. This layout works fine starting from 1024x768 (you have horizontal scroll bars caused by the wings in the main menu background), obviously if you have 1600x1200 it seems there's a lot of wasted space in the page. The only definitive solution i know is to use js to provide different css for different screen resolutions but you have to code that and i had to work so much to do just one css...so...i really couldn't do more than this. This could be another big improvement to do in the future.

But then, why I would want a "normal" account? I want from the start a "special" one, just to not have to deal later with upgrading it (the same rationale for why I see no reason for the current different roles).

Yes, you're right i'll spend some time finding out to show bigger images. I just don't know if it's better doing this right now or waiting the release and doing this after.

...

This is a good point, why not opening a topic in the forum about that

And subscribe to yet another forum which I will not follow later due to lack of time? Mailing list are more efficient (IMO).

You don't have to subscribe to the inkscape gallery forum, you already registered with an artist account so you may post topic in the forums (thery are two, one in english and one in italian) right now. This is one of the benefits due to the hard choice to use a drupal forum, that is not exactly the best in the forum software world... I agree with you about mailing lists but i think that we are using the wrong tool. We are speaking about the improvement of a web site with its own "space" to do this , in a mailing list. I'm happy about discussing but i think the right place to do is the inkscape gallery forum, IMHO. You don't have to spend your days on inkscape gallery forum, maybe just the time you'll have will be enough.. ;-)

...

happy but... what are the others waiting for?

Maybe people apply the same policy you are using for FF3 and expect your site to come out of "test"?

Yes Nicu, i think you're right, but i'd like to fix something (i don't like the artists page, many of us will not use most of the fields i provided and every profile takes too much space actually) and we need to populate it with images and speeches especially. Now i posted 10 images or more and then i see 4 images made by other users, it seems my monograph and it's not what we want. Galleries too need images to be beautiful so i'm still wondering if someone is going to post inkscape made images in the next hours or days, then we go :-) I hope you to understand my feelings more than my words, it's still difficult to me doing this in english.. See you, and thanks, really. Da.

http://inkscapegallery.net http://test.inkscapegallery.net

On Jan 24, 2008 8:49 AM, heathenx <heathenx@...155...> wrote:

in my line of work i get criticized all day long for what i do. sometimes i walk away at the end of the day thinking that that world hates me.

it does. ;)

Sorry bud, you lob them in and I hit them. It's what I do.

:)

RQ

heathenx ha scritto:

davide,

hang in there, davide. i think what you are trying to do is a good thing for the community. i can imagine that what you are doing is rather time consuming and from the looks of things you have already put in quite an effort.

some of the cristism that you are getting shouldn't be taken negatively. we just want you to succeed and we care enough to give you our opinions. in my line of work i get criticized all day long for what i do. sometimes i walk away at the end of the day thinking that that world hates me. thank god my dog cannot talk because he would probably criticize me too. :)

heathenx

Thank you heathenx it really helps ;-) criticism is not is getting down my exitement about inkscape gallery, i really wanted the community to participate and it's being useful cause every mail i received contained good concerns, even when "fires". I'm just a little bit worried about the time we are spending here on the list and not in the web site, there are still a few images in inkscape gallery and a few users too. I would like to continue discussing about the web site while it is growing, approaching the official release, otherwise this could be infertile. Thank you so much, i noticed you've registered at last :-) See you there, too. Da. http://wwwinkscapegallery.net http://test.inkscapegallery.net

Nicu Buculei ha scritto:

davide|inkscapegallery wrote:

...

I would like the inkscape developers to join us, too. There's a lot we can share with inkscape.org, for example, and collaborating with them would be useful.

I just got an idea about a possible collaboration with inkscape.org, but it require some more work from you... if you are following our lists, you are probably aware Inkscape's website will be moved on Drupal, so gaining some more features. *If* your website will get valuable content (both in quantity and quality), I think inkscape.org could display a feed with the latest uploads or something like this (but you need to provide a feed and the feed to contain thumbnails). Also, you can look into aggregation at http://planet.inkscape.org, maybe the "image of the day" or "image of the week".

This is really what i meant, i didn't find an address where to talk to inkscape.org and share my work and my ideas. I just pasted the email content (the first one and the "update" one) in my "talk" in the wiki But these are good ideas, do you know who and where to point this out ?

...

The point is: fix what needs to be fixed, populate the website and then release it officially. In the meantime we can imagine upgrades to come, layout improvements, features enhancement and everything to make inkscape gallery our (inkscapers) "visit card", our best inkscape's experience.

Yup, follow the FOSS mantra: "release early, release often".

I'll try... :-[

...

But this is going to happen only if we believe that there's something new and special in the work i've done and that we will work together to improve it, to give it the best "free" ideas and skills.

This is why I repeat over and over about the SVG support, I think it is *that* new and special something.

That's ok, this is rising at the top of the wishlist.

If it was *my* site, here is how I think I would implement it (mockup made with Inkscape, of course): http://nicubunu.ro/pictures/inkscapegallery_uploadmockup.png

It would be cool, but i think we need to hardcode drupal to do this... Did you see the italian "creating content" interface? Could it be a good and easy solution?

...

Now i posted 10 images or more and then i see 4 images made by other users, it seems my monograph and it's not what we want. Galleries too need images to be beautiful so i'm still wondering if someone is going to post inkscape made images in the next hours or days, then we go :-)

OK, I will dig my hard drive for a couple more decent images (those I uploaded the other day are my most recent work) and post there, maybe it will help you to get "enough" to get live.

Yes, go digging Nicu :-)

Thanks, Da.

Ok Nicu i will subscribe to the devel list too, yes i've already read the comment on my "talk" on the inkscape's wiki. I couldn't understand why he found so strange that i wanted to share with inkscape.org my ideas. That weren't ideas, but a project ready to be released... You're in that list too, would you support me? ;-) See you, i have seen your new images on inkscape gallery, i will vote for the fedora certificated one :-) Da.

Nicu Buculei ha scritto:

davide|inkscapegallery wrote:

...

Nicu Buculei ha scritto:

...

I just got an idea about a possible collaboration with inkscape.org, but it require some more work from you... if you are following our lists, you are probably aware Inkscape's website will be moved on Drupal, so gaining some more features. *If* your website will get valuable content (both in quantity and quality), I think inkscape.org could display a feed with the latest uploads or something like this (but you need to provide a feed and the feed to contain thumbnails). Also, you can look into aggregation at http://planet.inkscape.org, maybe the "image of the day" or "image of the week".

This is really what i meant, i didn't find an address where to talk to inkscape.org and share my work and my ideas. I just pasted the email content (the first one and the "update" one) in my "talk" in the wiki But these are good ideas, do you know who and where to point this out ?

The best place is the development mailing list (inkscape-devel@) and maybe the chat room (see http://inkscape.org/discussion.php?lang=en)

You know, your message in the wiki didn't go unnoticed, but you were not subscribed to the list to follow it: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=733f2c730801160858m...

davide|inkscapegallery wrote:

i have seen your new images on inkscape gallery, i will vote for the fedora certificated one :-)

Thanks for the vote... but as always, with more usage comes new feature requests... For the comments made on one of my uploads, I would expect two things (usually available on such a gallery): - the name of the commenter (the community thing, to identity your "friend" or "foe"); - an email notification about the comment, so I can go to the site and reply if needed.

Daniel Hulme ha scritto:

It strikes me that whatever your future SVG migration strategy, it's going to be much easier if you already have the SVG source for all or most of your users' art.

Well, this is reasonable but what i meant with the "future svg upgrade" is so undefined now, i'm not deeply informed about various browsers development, i suppose that microsoft is not following this, for example. I feel as this is our desire much more than a concrete opportunity now, but i'm going to deepen my knowledge about browser's plans to support svg.

In addition, not allowing upload of the SVG will discourage people from sending in GPL'ed works, or other works where the author wants to encourage his 'users' to create derivative works by giving them the work in an easily editable form.

Yes this is the main point.

Another, less important, benefit to accepting SVG files is that they already have all the metadata such as author and license terms in the file, so your users wouldn't need to enter it all again on the site.

I'm wondering this; what if we allow svg upload and provide a download link in the full node view? I mean, i can't see more to do right now with svg, this accomplishes the main needs of us, inkscape users. I'll do in a while, i'm sorry for those who already posted images, they will have to edit their content to upload the svg file. But i'm the first who must do this... I tell you when i've done. Da.

On Jan 24, 2008 10:36 PM, Mr. Shawn H. Corey <shawnhcorey@...1487...> wrote:

OK, just what website are you talking about?

I have looked at http://inkscapegallery.net/ which just says it's coming soon.

I have looked at http://test.inkscapegallery.net/ which is one of the ugliest sites I have every seen. And is totally unusable.

So, could someone please post the real website, so that we all can look at it?

Now there is a constructive piece of criticism. Thanks for elevating the discussion.

RQ

On Jan 24, 2008 11:14 PM, Mr. Shawn H. Corey <shawnhcorey@...1487...> wrote:

Richard Querin wrote:

...

Now there is a constructive piece of criticism. Thanks for elevating the discussion.

RQ

You know, I used to ignore shit like this. But now I reply in kind.

*JUST HOW DOES YOUR REPLY ANSWER MY QUESTION?*

It doesn't.

What happened here? O:-) I just wanted to say that maybe the angry user was right... i worked on the website in the last 3 hours (it's so late in Italy now...)and i continuosly updated the css, so... :-)

But, what i've done? I have to say that maybe i didn't understand the svg problem just because it was so easy and i was thinking to bizarre solutions, i don't know why...

Now you have svg upload in inkscape gallery, the file is linked in teaser and full node (drupal language) so if you click on that, firefox shows it. :-)

I fixed the layout after this upgrade and you can see an example in the "test big size" content.

Tomorrow i will give this more emphasis now i'm gonna lie just for 123 hours...

See you tomorrow, Da.

ryan lerch ha scritto:

I believe that http://test.inkscapegallery.net/ is the website, but remember that it is still a test site, and im sure any ideas / thoughts that anyone has towards the design and usability of the site will be taken on board. Why argue when you could be sharing your great ideas for a better inkscape community?

cheers,

ryanlerch

On Jan 25, 2008 2:14 PM, Mr. Shawn H. Corey <shawnhcorey@...1487... mailto:shawnhcorey@...1487...> wrote:

Richard Querin wrote:
> Now there is a constructive piece of criticism. Thanks for
elevating the
> discussion.
>
>
> RQ

You know, I used to ignore s*** like this.  But now I reply in kind.

*JUST HOW DOES YOUR REPLY ANSWER MY QUESTION?*


--
Just my 0.00000002 million dollars worth,
 Shawn

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Hey Davide!

It's great to see such a webpage being build up and hope it will prosper. I've being following the development of Inkscape a lot closer in the early days. I now am just a user and even that has been decreased, since I have a MacBook and use MacOS because with Linux my wireless is still not working.

Anyways, I must admit, I have not read all of this thread on the topic, but I do also have a lot of criticism :-D I hope it is valued and not taken for ranting.

First of all it's all about branding and corporate design. I see from the references at nois3lab that you have done at least some work on branding. While one can arguably make deviations from a corporate design for such a page, I would refrain from going this far. I think the idea of going from a white background to a dark one is rather good. However, the dominating colour besides this should be a light green as seen on www.inkscape.org. The pink not only doesn't fit the corporate design (ok, it was never defined, but let's take, what we have) but also actually looks a lot like 90ies.

Same goes for shapes. Instead of these spacily bowed rectangle, work with rectangles and rectangles with rounded corners.

Font: Arial instead of Trebuchet.

Over all the layout also needs some cleaning it up :-) I would gladly waste some time on a layout, if you want me to. Nice distraction from unistuff you know...

Besides the style, I have trouble understanding your navigation. Up I have Gallery|Graphic Gallery|Web but Random Gallery is below... There should be just one navigation and the two first big boxes "Wow I..." and "Would you..." could be placed somewhere on the page. The view sight as slideshow shoud be places at another spot... Furthermore the text in the first two boxes should be changed. The first box let's the reader say something, the second one addresses the reader. That should be unified like: "How can I become one of the artists?"

One more issue: On my firefox in MacOS the text only looks good, when I hover over one of the boxes and get a flyover-hint. otherwise the antialiasing has 100% alpha, which of course doesn't really give the desired effect for antialiasing.

Cheers and keep up the good work!

David

| | David Christian Berg | Vice President of Public Relations 2008 | Mobile: +49 176 60033488 | David.Berg@...2445... | | www.estiem.org | | «ESTIEM is an exciting network of open-minded students with a professional approach» |

On Jan 25, 2008, at 6:05 , davide|inkscapegallery wrote:

What happened here? O:-) I just wanted to say that maybe the angry user was right... i worked on the website in the last 3 hours (it's so late in Italy now...)and i continuosly updated the css, so... :-)

But, what i've done? I have to say that maybe i didn't understand the svg problem just because it was so easy and i was thinking to bizarre solutions, i don't know why...

Now you have svg upload in inkscape gallery, the file is linked in teaser and full node (drupal language) so if you click on that, firefox shows it. :-)

I fixed the layout after this upgrade and you can see an example in the "test big size" content.

Tomorrow i will give this more emphasis now i'm gonna lie just for 123 hours...

See you tomorrow, Da.

ryan lerch ha scritto:

...

I believe that http://test.inkscapegallery.net/ is the website, but remember that it is still a test site, and im sure any ideas / thoughts that anyone has towards the design and usability of the site will be taken on board. Why argue when you could be sharing your great ideas for a better inkscape community?

cheers,

ryanlerch

On Jan 25, 2008 2:14 PM, Mr. Shawn H. Corey <shawnhcorey@...1487... mailto:shawnhcorey@...1487...> wrote:

Richard Querin wrote:

...

Now there is a constructive piece of criticism. Thanks for

elevating the

...

discussion.

RQ

You know, I used to ignore s*** like this. But now I reply in kind.

*JUST HOW DOES YOUR REPLY ANSWER MY QUESTION?*

-- Just my 0.00000002 million dollars worth, Shawn

+------------\ | Shangri La \ | 40,000 km / +------------/

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ryan lerch wrote:

I believe that http://test.inkscapegallery.net/ is the website, but remember that it is still a test site, and im sure any ideas / thoughts that anyone has towards the design and usability of the site will be taken on board. Why argue when you could be sharing your great ideas for a better inkscape community?

cheers,

ryanlerch

Those who criticizes my opinion get what they deserved.

I am not arguing. I was asking if there was another website that I missed.

The website http://test.inkscapegallery.net/ is UGLY. See attached.

It is totally unusable. So, I was just wondering if I had the correct website.

Ya'know for a mailing list that is all about images, I find every website recommended here is just plain ugly. I know some of it is because of HTML, but I thought by now people would be creative, within its limitations. Now I think I am wrong :( /_\

dwain wrote:

ugly is subjective. what do find ugly about it? what do you find unusable about it and what do you mean by unusable? when you offer criticism it is also helpful to offer a solution. also notice the url of the site: http://TEST.inkscapegallery.net.

sometimes plain, like your site, works for readability. i must say that the sideways text links on the inkscape site makes readability for old eyes like mine hard to read and i do find the site to be a bit busy, but ugly? no.

the image links don't help seo very much and i don't know if it is that important.

again, criticism is good only if you offer a better soultion.

regards, dwain

Yes, I noticed the URL. Yes, I know it is a test site. That's why it is UGLY!

What is UGLY about it? Images off page. Overlapping text. Run-on text. Images without any indication why they are present.

And that's the technical aspect.

From usability:

No indication of what the site is about.

No indication of what I am looking at.

No indication of what the links will lead me to.

It's like an acid trip without the acid. At least with drugs, even bad drugs, it will have to end sometime. This website just goes on...and on...and on...and on.

And don't get me started on white-text-on-black. oO

---+++---

A better solution?

There are plenty of better solutions. I have spent 20 years of my life at finding a better solution (with profit to myself, of course).

What truly saddens me is that people who create websites like that can't seem to do better. They know what they want but the can't make it happen. "The soul is willing but the flesh is weak."

Some of it is ignorance; but most of it is arrogance.

The three principles for any website site are: usability, readability, and accessibility. Good looking is not not on the radar.

Put yourself in your reader's shoes. And they pinched. Really hard. And the baby is crying for it's bottle. And your mortgage is overdue. And your spouse has just walked out the door. This is the competition your website will face.

Yes, that's the real world. Well, maybe not so dramatic.

---+++---

And no, I'm not offering a better solution, or any solution at all.

But it is still ugly.

Nicu Buculei wrote:

Mr. Shawn H. Corey wrote:

...

Those who criticizes my opinion get what they deserved.

People do not criticize your *opinion*. They criticize your *rudeness*. I also have a lot of the issues with how the website look, but I try to be constructive.

I tried to be constructive. But the first time I did so, I was told that is was irrelevant.

And now you think I am rude. On a scale of 1 to 10, I am a 3, just like you.

And the test website sucks. Because at this day and age, anyone who presents a site like that deserves all the criticisms they get.

Has anybody actually looked at picture you provided in the first mail, Mr. Shawn h. Corey? ***I did*** and it renders in your browser COMPLETELY DIFFERENT as in mine. (Completely f&^%-up, actually) In your browser, it is indeed ugly because all kind of elements get completely displaced. I think the confusing arising from this might explain the grim tone this discussion is getting. Please, everybody, have a look at the PNG that was attached the first time.

I can imagine people not liking the design and people doubting its usuability. i for myself would say: it's an interesting experiment Davide is undertaking, both in terms of design, UI and functionality. And an experiment can never fail, even though we might have te roll some ideas back.

Now, please, go hug eachother... ;-)

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Maarten van der Velde ha scritto:

Has anybody actually looked at picture you provided in the first mail, Mr. Shawn h. Corey? ***I did*** and it renders in your browser COMPLETELY DIFFERENT as in mine. (Completely f&^%-up, actually) In your browser, it is indeed ugly because all kind of elements get completely displaced. I think the confusing arising from this might explain the grim tone this discussion is getting. Please, everybody, have a look at the PNG that was attached the first time.

I always like your comments Maarten :-) I'd like to explain that maybe, the "ugly lord" used the web site in a really unlucky situation. I was editing the css, then uploading it all the time and this could be the reason for the layout crashes. Probably his browser didn't charge the whole css and obviously the layout appeared broken. Nicu was rightly wondering if it was the same problem he had with firefox3 but i don't believe, think there's another explanation and i told about it. Or maybe both of them, i don't know..the matter is that layout is stable, nobody reported problems so far, even because nobody here use IE :-) I have to come back working on this obscene software after the changes i've made to implement svg upload and linking. So, this is not an issue.

I can imagine people not liking the design and people doubting its usuability. i for myself would say: it's an interesting experiment Davide is undertaking, both in terms of design, UI and functionality. And an experiment can never fail, even though we might have te roll some ideas back.

I agree Maarten but i would like to ask you something: i undestand, i've already told this, people who simply don't like the website design, it is inevitable. But i'm asking if someone noticed how easy is surfing on inkscape gallery, compared to many other similar software. I take just a few seconds of your attention; you are in the home page, you are just a click far from: viewing the image in fullscreen, go to the full node where to vote or insert comments, viewing galleries, viewing slideshows, subscribing to the newsletter, read the f.a.q, go the content creation, go to your private messages, see the artists section, viewing the user profile clicking on the link in "submitted", go to the forum, login and logout, go to the tutorial and the inkcape introducing and the download sections, i stop here but i could continue...

Certainly, this has a consequence: the home page is really full of many stuffs, but i knew this and it was the trial to make the user enjoy the website in the easiest way, staying in the home page moving with a simple click, not needing to go around to find what the website offered. I mean all the users, even the one-time visit user.

I think that everybody need time to understand what inkscape gallery really is.

At last, thank you, i didn't expect this "arguing" days to be so useful for the website now, please go using it and debugging the new added features for inkscape, not for me :-) .

Da.

Now, please, go hug eachother... ;-)

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Nicu Buculei ha scritto:

I find it no easier compared with deviantART. Sure, is easier compared with Gallery2 or Coppermine, but those are not good examples.

Ok nicu, it's not a fight between me and other web-developers, i just want to tell you that i have an account on deviant art but if i have to go to the inkscape's group i still search for it in google... No problem, deviant art is so big and i don't know it very well but i hope it is as good as possible cause i like that project.

...

now, please go using it and debugging the new added features for inkscape, not for me :-) .

Surely you will start hating me...

No, nicu... you're the thorn in my side :-) you're really helping me.

I have two more issues, see the screenshot attached:

• the font on the file picker is pink on gray, almost unreadable, use

something darker or use the same background for the form like in the search box;

You're right, i'll fix.

• the image preview is the full image resized from HTML, I can see it

slowly loading from top to bottom (and this resizing produce an ugly result, without resample). Ideally you would display the thumbnail (you create a thumbnail anyway).

This was not my choice actually, i had some (not many) chances using drupal to do this, and i choosed the better one, but you're right when you say that resizing via html it's not so good. But i'm quite satisfied by the way, we have 5 image sizes showing in the website and i didn't notice ugly (i'm going to love this word) results.

Thank you again Nicu, i would like to tell you this: stop thinking about a perfect and powerful software, there always will be a weak point or more, we're trying to do this as good as we can, with cap in hand. Da.

I was thinking about the quicksand song, heathenx :-) Da.

heathenx ha scritto:

davide|inkscapegallery wrote the following on 1/25/2008 9:52 AM:

...

...

Surely you will start hating me...

No, nicu... you're the thorn in my side :-) you're really helping me.

The Smiths - The Boy With The Thorn In His Side...apropos?

Cue the music...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYp2LGKOF_M

:)

heathenx

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davide|inkscapegallery wrote:

Nicu Buculei ha scritto:

...

...

...

• an entire row of buttons at the top is aligned incorrectly (I use a

beta of Firefox 3), see: http://nicubunu.ro/pictures/inkscape_gallery.png

Nope, this is a wrong approach. What matters is if the problem is caused by a bug in the browser in in the site layout. In a few months FF3 will be distributed to millions of users, so the bug should be solved, either in your website or in Firefox.

Don't know if it's wrong or not, i mean, they are testing a beta software and obviously they're going to change something and their going to fix something too, we should be ready when it will be soon released, anyway, i tried with firefox 3 but i couldn't test with the beta, had to try with the alpha and everything was ok. So, it seems reasonable (the problem you noticed was pretty corny too, it is text rendering related issue basing on the screenshot) to wait for a stable release and then see if something still needs to be fixed. I'll take care of it.

Davide, I looked more into this bug and I get it also on the stable Seamonkey 1.1.7 (basically Gecko 1.8.1, the same as Firefox 2).

Indeed, it is a font related problem, if I decrease the font size (Ctrl+-) a couple of times then the buttons go in the right place (but the fonts become too small to be readable). The trick does not work on Firefox 3 as it does full page zoom, not only change the text size.

davide|inkscapegallery wrote:

Nicu Buculei ha scritto:

...

Davide, I looked more into this bug and I get it also on the stable Seamonkey 1.1.7 (basically Gecko 1.8.1, the same as Firefox 2).

Indeed, it is a font related problem, if I decrease the font size (Ctrl+-) a couple of times then the buttons go in the right place (

Yes i supposed, it was a text rendering issue, do you remember? But it's easy to fix, i'll make some changes would you like to see in a hour if the problem persists?

I see you modified something. Now by default it look correct on my Firefox and still wrong on my Seamonkey (they render the fonts slightly differently). However, after one Ctr++ the buttons are displaced on Firefox and ater one single Ctrl+- they look correct on Seamonkey (initially it was after 2 Ctrl+-).

I believe the layout is correct only when the fonts are under a certain size.

Patrick wrote:

With I.E sucking so bad I have spent hours trying to get my site to render the CSS correctly in all browsers. I was just looking into using PHP for browser identification and utilizing different CSS links for the different browsers.

If there were image related problems would this strategy not help too?

The bug is caused by text rendering.

Any thoughts? Is this relevant to this thread?

Not quite, all the browsers mentioned use Gecko for rendering. The problem is, on various platforms and individual systems, we have different settings for text rendering and size (DPI). When the text size changes, the layout slips, probably a problem with positioning.

davide|inkscapegallery wrote:

Try again nicu, please and then report, thank you so much,

Sorry, but http://nicubunu.ro/pictures/inkscapegallery.ogg

i've tried with iceape and it's all ok.

Have you tried to change the font size?

Anyway, you will not get any more complaints about this particular bug from me, I'll be offline until Monday.