11:06 a.m.
Hey Alexandre (& board),
I really think this is one of those tough issues regarding Packt and the
project showing any form of favoritism in the name of financial gain vs
something community based (not say that there's anything comparable, but
saying that tends to be the preference). If I could get a copy of it (no I
don't want to pay) to judge the quality, I could then feel comfortable with
voting.
As for the board though, I do believe that at some point it was originally
supposed to be term based. I think we should revisit this issue as there may
be people on the board who are no longer actively involved with the project
and are unresponsive. Additionally, there may also be some of our newer &
more active contributors who might have different perspectives that could be
beneficial.
I feel that at least two people should definitely be given the opportunity
to be on the board. Those people would be Johan & JazzyNico. According to
ohloh.net (not perfect), but Johan is ranked as the #2 committer to the
project behind only bulia and Nicolas is ranked #5 (4 commits away from
being #4)... and yes, I realize that Nicolas also does translation work and
maintenance, but I'm looking at commitment to the project. At some point I'd
also want to extend offers to Felipe & Krzysztof as well, but that's for
another day.
Johan & Nicolas, would you be interested on being on the board? If you look
at the archives for the list, we rarely talk about stuff (every 6 months at
best, I believe we've had a stretch of well over a year with no
discussions), so it's by no means a big commitment time-wise.
Alexandre, I understand where you're coming from. Please know that you
evangelizing for the project (and oss graphics software in general) is
HUGELY appreciated. Please don't leave us. I will admit, I've been at that
point in the past too... mainly when there is no code changing activity,
lack of responses on the mailing lists, and it seems like no one is
interested in just fixing bugs so we can just get a release out. Adib &
Nicolas generally step up and relieve that tension though (Gellule is
shaping up to be another). Either way, I've literally been just an inch away
from the half baked scene (NSFW):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuBRk6tjiUQ(obviously I wouldn't be
like that with any fellow contributors, but I've
certainly been that frustrated).
Cheers,
Josh
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:43 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoudine@...23...> wrote:
Hi,
I have to say that I'm extremely disappointed with Inkscape committee.
It's been a month since I'm not able to tell PacktPub *anything*
concrete about their proposal. A PR person is not supposed to keep
people waiting a whole damn month.
Guys, what do you expect me to tell PacktPub? That decision makers in
the project don't care about the project? That they don't actually
make decisions per se? Do you understand that this is about
reputation?
I can stretch it a bit once again, but if this nonsense doesn't stop,
I will step down as PR manager.
Please forward to the rest of the committee.
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
2:52 p.m.
New subject: re committee
On 6/16/2011 1:06 PM, Josh Andler wrote:
As for the board though, I do believe that at some point it was
originally supposed to be term based. I think we should revisit this
issue as there may be people on the board who are no longer actively
involved with the project and are unresponsive. Additionally, there
may also be some of our newer & more active contributors who might
have different perspectives that could be beneficial.
I wasn't aware that any of the committee members were unresponsive.
That's a bummer.
I do recall there being some idea of term limits on the committee, but
in my memory it was only related to my position as honorary community
person. IIRC the founder positions were permanent. We should read the
original document to make sure. In any case I think it is long past time
for me to hand my position over to another more active community member.
Alexandre, I understand where you're coming from. Please know
that you
evangelizing for the project (and oss graphics software in general) is
HUGELY appreciated. Please don't leave us. I will admit, I've been at
that point in the past too... mainly when there is no code changing
activity, lack of responses on the mailing lists, and it seems like no
one is interested in just fixing bugs so we can just get a release
out. Adib & Nicolas generally step up and relieve that tension though
(Gellule is shaping up to be another). Either way, I've literally been
just an inch away from the half baked scene (NSFW):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuBRk6tjiUQ (obviously I wouldn't be
like that with any fellow contributors, but I've certainly been that
frustrated).
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:43 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine
<alexandre.prokoudine@...23...
<mailto:alexandre.prokoudine@...23...>> wrote:
I have to say that I'm extremely disappointed with Inkscape committee.
It's been a month since I'm not able to tell PacktPub *anything*
concrete about their proposal. A PR person is not supposed to keep
people waiting a whole damn month.
Guys, what do you expect me to tell PacktPub? That decision makers in
the project don't care about the project? That they don't actually
make decisions per se? Do you understand that this is about
reputation?
I can stretch it a bit once again, but if this nonsense doesn't stop,
I will step down as PR manager.
Please forward to the rest of the committee.
Alexandre,
I have a huge amount of respect for you. I know you have done a
tremendous amount of good for Inkscape and the whole OSS creative
software ecosystem. You have always been very pleasant and helpful to me
personally. Thank you.
Now, I've been pretty lax on reading the -dev and -user mailing lists
for a good long time now. So I must have missed when you stepped up as
PR manager. (Which is awesome, thanks again.) But hearing this, quite
frankly, surprises me. (Yes, I've always seen you as the de facto PR man
for all OSS creative software.) But whenever I have caught up the
mailing lists I have found posts from you that seemed rather abrasive,
not what I would expect from a PR person. This seems completely out of
character to me. I don't ever remember you being like that when I was
active in the Inkscape project. I don't know what happened. But I'm
sorry if I had anything to do with it. And I hope things get better.
Let's keep the communication going.
Aaron Spike
5:14 p.m.
New subject: re committee
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 11:06:10AM -0700, Josh Andler wrote:
Hey Alexandre (& board),
I really think this is one of those tough issues regarding Packt and the
project showing any form of favoritism in the name of financial gain vs
something community based (not say that there's anything comparable, but
saying that tends to be the preference). If I could get a copy of it (no I
don't want to pay) to judge the quality, I could then feel comfortable with
voting.
I didn't see the original proposal, I think. My mail was a little
unreliable for a bit.
As for the board though, I do believe that at some point it was
originally
supposed to be term based. I think we should revisit this issue as there may
be people on the board who are no longer actively involved with the project
and are unresponsive. Additionally, there may also be some of our newer &
more active contributors who might have different perspectives that could be
beneficial.
I agree with this, my involvement with inkscape outside 2geom is
minimal so I would be happy to hand the baton on to someone else.
However, I am not sure what benefit removing people from the board will
have, if the problem is people not getting or reading emails.
I feel that at least two people should definitely be given the
opportunity
to be on the board. Those people would be Johan & JazzyNico. According to
ohloh.net (not perfect), but Johan is ranked as the #2 committer to the
project behind only bulia and Nicolas is ranked #5 (4 commits away from
being #4)... and yes, I realize that Nicolas also does translation work and
maintenance, but I'm looking at commitment to the project. At some point I'd
also want to extend offers to Felipe & Krzysztof as well, but that's for
another day.
They are all excellent candidates for the board.
njh
5:26 p.m.
New subject: re committee
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Nathan Hurst <njh@...19...> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 11:06:10AM -0700, Josh Andler wrote:
> Hey Alexandre (& board),
>
> I really think this is one of those tough issues regarding Packt and the
> project showing any form of favoritism in the name of financial gain vs
> something community based (not say that there's anything comparable, but
> saying that tends to be the preference). If I could get a copy of it (no
I
> don't want to pay) to judge the quality, I could then feel comfortable
with
> voting.
I didn't see the original proposal, I think. My mail was a little
unreliable for a bit.
The original proposal was sent off-list to only myself and Ted. I admit that
I dropped the ball by starring the message to deal with and not filtering my
mail to see if I had anything marked important recently enough. I dropped it
a second time when Alexandre followed up and told him I would email the
board and subsequently forgot to as opposed to doing it right then. My bad,
I own it. I do greatly regret it and am sorry for it Alexandre.
If you look back in this message thread you'll find that Alexandre ended up
pasting in the original email within one of his messages.
> As for the board though, I do believe that at some point it was
originally
> supposed to be term based. I think we should revisit this issue as there
may
> be people on the board who are no longer actively involved with the
project
> and are unresponsive. Additionally, there may also be some of our newer &
> more active contributors who might have different perspectives that could
be
> beneficial.
I agree with this, my involvement with inkscape outside 2geom is
minimal so I would be happy to hand the baton on to someone else.
However, I am not sure what benefit removing people from the board will
have, if the problem is people not getting or reading emails.
Tied to 2geom, please look at the list archives as there was a recent thread
I started which Krzysztof responded to which it would be useful to get your
thoughts on. I agree that in the case of people not getting emails it would
be absurd to remove people from the board. However, if outside of something
like lack of net access, vacation, life being busy, family stuff, or
whatever other things happen if it's actually a choice to not read emails it
would show a lack of commitment (note, I'm explicitly saying in terms of
selectively reading other emails and leaving board ones unread).
Also tied to 2geom and brought up on in the list message, if you'll give me
the ability, I'd be more than happy to update the 2geom website to more
accurately reflect the current state (launchpad vs sourceforge, bzr vs svn,
etc).
Cheers,
Josh
12:41 a.m.
New subject: re committee
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 05:26:03PM -0700, Josh Andler wrote:
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Nathan Hurst <njh@...19...>
wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 11:06:10AM -0700, Josh Andler wrote:
> > Hey Alexandre (& board),
> >
> > I really think this is one of those tough issues regarding Packt and the
> > project showing any form of favoritism in the name of financial gain vs
> > something community based (not say that there's anything comparable, but
> > saying that tends to be the preference). If I could get a copy of it (no
> I
> > don't want to pay) to judge the quality, I could then feel comfortable
> with
> > voting.
>
> I didn't see the original proposal, I think. My mail was a little
> unreliable for a bit.
>
The original proposal was sent off-list to only myself and Ted. I admit that
I dropped the ball by starring the message to deal with and not filtering my
mail to see if I had anything marked important recently enough. I dropped it
a second time when Alexandre followed up and told him I would email the
board and subsequently forgot to as opposed to doing it right then. My bad,
I own it. I do greatly regret it and am sorry for it Alexandre.
If you look back in this message thread you'll find that Alexandre ended up
pasting in the original email within one of his messages.
I agree with bryce for this. My extension is that I am happy to
promote comercial inkscape related products on the website, but I
would always give higher prominence to open source efforts. As long
as we stay with our core goals of long term freedom, and avoid crass
advretising, I think our users would appreciate any documentation
available.
If they can feed money back into development efforts, even better.
(Though how we spend our hoard has been even more contentious :)
Tied to 2geom, please look at the list archives as there was a recent
thread
I started which Krzysztof responded to which it would be useful to get your
thoughts on.
I didn't get the one about admin privs. Of course they can. I would
like to give all 2geom devels admin privs if sf.net would let me. I'm
not particularly happy with sf's project management any more, perhaps
we should look at github or something?
Also tied to 2geom and brought up on in the list message, if
you'll give me
the ability, I'd be more than happy to update the 2geom website to more
accurately reflect the current state (launchpad vs sourceforge, bzr vs svn,
etc).
Let's migrate away from sf.net unless there are objections? One
reason I haven't done as much as I should, is that the cost of
contributing in the small chunks of free + motivated time I've had,
I've spent more time dealing with revision control problems than
coding.
I vote for github.
njh
11:10 a.m.
New subject: re committee
On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 12:41 AM, Nathan Hurst <njh@...19...> wrote:
Let's migrate away from sf.net unless there are objections? One
reason I haven't done as much as I should, is that the cost of
contributing in the small chunks of free + motivated time I've had,
I've spent more time dealing with revision control problems than
coding.
Given that the code has already been migrated over to launchpad and is using
bzr, I just want to ask, do you really want to introduce a different dvcs
for everyone? It's understandable if you have much better experiences with
git vs bzr given the comment about dealing with revision control problems.
I'm not voting since my commits are minimal and generally things like fixing
builds on newer compilers.
As a side note, I've been thinking about moving the inkscape mailing lists
over to launchpad as a post-release todo item to get Inkscape moved more
away from sf.net.
Regarding distribution of releases, does anyone know if LP tracks stats and
makes nice graphs or charts and could import that information from
sf.net(relating to download information)?
Cheers,
Josh
2:34 p.m.
New subject: re committee
On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 11:10:52AM -0700, Josh Andler wrote:
As a side note, I've been thinking about moving the inkscape
mailing lists
over to launchpad as a post-release todo item to get Inkscape moved more
away from sf.net.
Good idea.
The lists on launchpad are basically standard Mailman instances, with
integration to LP teams. Thus, I think you may want to establish teams
for each of the lists (which is basically what the original intent was
anyway). I know we set up some lists which aren't really used much; you
might consider proposing to roll those all back into the central list.
Regarding distribution of releases, does anyone know if LP tracks
stats and
makes nice graphs or charts and could import that information from
sf.net(relating to download information)?
I seem to recall something about PPA download statistics being made
available but never investigated it. But I haven't seen any charts or
graphs like sf.net has. I'm pretty sure they don't have the mirrors set
up for statistics gathering though.
Bryce
4548
days inactive
4550
days old
inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org
6 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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Aaron Spike -
Bryce Harrington -
Josh Andler -
Nathan Hurst