I propose we retire the Gradient Editor dialog before 0.49 Any objections or concerns ?
For retiring: * Old, not maintained code with many bug reports still piling up * Almost all functionality is available in the Gradient toolbar / on-canvas editing now
For keeping: * Can be used to edit gradients in the document but not used on-canvas.
Here is the bug tracking the gradient editor retirement https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/950677
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:54 AM, John Smith wrote:
I propose we retire the Gradient Editor dialog before 0.49 Any objections or concerns ?
Just pick a ceremonial knife and do away with it :)
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
Where should I be able to see the gradient toolbar? I have not seen it before on my system (trunk, latest rev., vista 64 bit) ...
2012/6/19 Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@...400...>:
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:54 AM, John Smith wrote:
I propose we retire the Gradient Editor dialog before 0.49 Any objections or concerns ?
Just pick a ceremonial knife and do away with it :)
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Kris De Gussem <kris.degussem@...400...> wrote:
Where should I be able to see the gradient toolbar? I have not seen it before on my system (trunk, latest rev., vista 64 bit) ...
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
2012/6/19 Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@...400...>:
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Kris De Gussem <kris.degussem@...400...> wrote:
Where should I be able to see the gradient toolbar? I have not seen it before on my system (trunk, latest rev., vista 64 bit) ...
Am I overlooking something? (read: Am I blind?) See screenshot in attach (View > "Show/Hide > everything enabled) ... Trunk revision 11500.
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Kris De Gussem <kris.degussem@...400...> wrote:
2012/6/19 Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@...400...>:
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Kris De Gussem <kris.degussem@...400...> wrote:
Where should I be able to see the gradient toolbar? I have not seen it before on my system (trunk, latest rev., vista 64 bit) ...
Am I overlooking something? (read: Am I blind?) See screenshot in attach (View > "Show/Hide > everything enabled) ... Trunk revision 11500.
Yes you're overlooking something... that you're not in the right tool. ;) Hit G to change to the gradient tool (or click the expansion arrow in the toolbox and change that way).
Cheers, Josh
Well OK ... perfect hit, guys! You see it is a tool I use very infrequently.
Two remarks: - current behaviour of the fill and stroke editor is imho contra-intuitive as when selecting gradients and modifying them in this dialog, I expect Inkscape to switch to the gradient tool (when dropping the old editor, this problem should be gone, no?) - the gradient tool is not discussed in the tutorials delivered along with inkscape. For such an important tool I (and quite probably a novice user) expect an example or discussion in one of these tutorials ...
2012/6/19 Josh Andler <scislac@...400...>:
Am I overlooking something? (read: Am I blind?) See screenshot in attach (View > "Show/Hide > everything enabled) ... Trunk revision 11500.
Yes you're overlooking something... that you're not in the right tool. ;) Hit G to change to the gradient tool (or click the expansion arrow in the toolbox and change that way).
Cheers, Josh
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Kris De Gussem <kris.degussem@...400...> wrote:
Well OK ... perfect hit, guys! You see it is a tool I use very infrequently.
Two remarks:
- current behaviour of the fill and stroke editor is imho
contra-intuitive as when selecting gradients and modifying them in this dialog, I expect Inkscape to switch to the gradient tool (when dropping the old editor, this problem should be gone, no?)
For the record, this bug report covers improvements to the F&S dialog that would compliment the changes to the gradient tool. It eventually (once the stand alone editor is completely gone) could be made so when clicking the edit button, it would just switch to the tool.
- the gradient tool is not discussed in the tutorials delivered along
with inkscape. For such an important tool I (and quite probably a novice user) expect an example or discussion in one of these tutorials
Our tutorials really need to be updated in general, including adding new tutorials for features like clipping/masking, filters, live path effects, etc.
Cheers, Josh
bug report covers improvements to the F&S dialog that would compliment the changes to the gradient tool.
Yes there are 2 seperate bug reports (this discussion is mostly focused on 1. below) 1. Changes to the Gradient toolbar (and retiring the Gradient editor) https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/950677 2. Changes to the Gradient selection/management in the F&S dialog https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/722017
The tutorials are probably out-of-date. Gradients are discussed at:
http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Attributes-Fill-Stroke.html#Att...
----- Original Message ----- | From: "Kris De Gussem" <kris.degussem@...400...> | To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net | Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:54:34 PM | Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Retire Gradient Editor | | Well OK ... perfect hit, guys! | You see it is a tool I use very infrequently. | | Two remarks: | - current behaviour of the fill and stroke editor is imho | contra-intuitive as when selecting gradients and modifying them in | this dialog, I expect Inkscape to switch to the gradient tool (when | dropping the old editor, this problem should be gone, no?) | - the gradient tool is not discussed in the tutorials delivered along | with inkscape. For such an important tool I (and quite probably a | novice user) expect an example or discussion in one of these | tutorials | ... | | | 2012/6/19 Josh Andler <scislac@...400...>: | >> Am I overlooking something? (read: Am I blind?) See screenshot in | >> attach (View > "Show/Hide > everything enabled) ... | >> Trunk revision 11500. | > | > Yes you're overlooking something... that you're not in the right | > tool. | > ;) Hit G to change to the gradient tool (or click the expansion | > arrow | > in the toolbox and change that way). | > | > Cheers, | > Josh | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Live Security Virtual Conference | Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and | threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. | Discussions | will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in | malware | threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ | _______________________________________________ | Inkscape-devel mailing list | Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net | https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel |
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:35 PM, Kris De Gussem wrote:
Am I overlooking something? (read: Am I blind?) See screenshot in attach (View > "Show/Hide > everything enabled) ...
Yes, you have Node tool enabled and expect to see gradient options :)
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
On 06/19/2012 08:54 AM, John Smith wrote:
I propose we retire the Gradient Editor dialog before 0.49
- Almost all functionality is available in the Gradient toolbar /
on-canvas editing now
Almost? What's missing?
Almost? What's missing?
Gradient Editor dialog can be used to edit gradients in the document but not used on-canvas
________________________________ From: Thorsten Wilms <t_w_@...123...> To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Retire Gradient Editor
On 06/19/2012 08:54 AM, John Smith wrote:
I propose we retire the Gradient Editor dialog before 0.49
- Almost all functionality is available in the Gradient toolbar /
on-canvas editing now
Almost? What's missing?
2012/6/19 John Smith <john.smith7545@...36...>:
Almost? What's missing?
It's also not possible to set the gradient stop numerically. E.g. If I want the stops to be eaxctly at 25%, 50% and 75% I would have to create 4 helper rectangles and snap to their corners to do this.
Regards, Krzysztof
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Krzysztof Kosiński wrote:
It's also not possible to set the gradient stop numerically.
You mean the offset input field that right there in the toolbar? ;)
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
On 19/06/2012 09:13, Thorsten Wilms wrote:
On 06/19/2012 08:54 AM, John Smith wrote:
I propose we retire the Gradient Editor dialog before 0.49
- Almost all functionality is available in the Gradient toolbar /
on-canvas editing now
Almost? What's missing?
e.g. support for custom swatches:
The current implementation of custom swatches (Auto-palette) - based on single-stop gradients for flat colors, or multi-stop regular gradients - uses the Gradient Editor dialog to allow editing of custom swatches listed in the Auto-palette, via context menu of the color swatch. With this feature it is possible to edit custom colors/gradients from the Auto-palette globally for the current file even if not used by a visible (or selected/selectable) object.
See also: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Release_notes/0.48#Custom_Swatches http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Attributes-Fill-Stroke.html#Attributes-CustomSwatches
Are there any current versions of Inkscape that run on Big Endian systems.
OSX on powerpc maybe?
(EMF is byte order dependent, and I need to decide how much priority to put into adding the endian agnostic routines, since it seems like all of the major environments are Little Endian these days.)
Thanks,
David Mathog mathog@...1176... Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech
On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 09:20 -0700, mathog wrote:
Are there any current versions of Inkscape that run on Big Endian systems.
OSX on powerpc maybe?
(EMF is byte order dependent, and I need to decide how much priority to put into adding the endian agnostic routines, since it seems like all of the major environments are Little Endian these days.)
The only one I could think of would be IBM Power systems as a server for a bunch of thin clients. But, I don't *know* of anyone with that system, only theoretical. I think as long as we can detect and disable EMF for that platform, I wouldn't worry too much about it, we should just not present the feature if it's known broken.
--Ted
mathog scrisse:
Are there any current versions of Inkscape that run on Big Endian systems.
Debian packages for Inkscape are currently available for the following big endian architectures: avr32, hppa, mips, powerpc, s390, s390x, sparc
No endiannes-related bugs have been reported so far, and I believe the Debian/Inkscape userbase on those systems to be very small. I wouldn't rank it too high on a TODO list :)
Ciao, Luca
it is possible to edit custom colors/gradients from the Auto-palette globally for the current file even if not used by a visible(or selected/selectable) object
To me "editing gradients defined in the doc but not actually used" seems like a pretty minor case, with an easy workaround, you simply assign that gradient to any object then edit on-canvas using the Gradient tool, then unassign.
Do you think it is worth keeping the Gradient Editor dialog for this alone ?
________________________________ From: ~suv <suv-sf@...58...> To: t_w_@...123... Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Retire Gradient Editor
On 19/06/2012 09:13, Thorsten Wilms wrote:
On 06/19/2012 08:54 AM, John Smith wrote:
I propose we retire the Gradient Editor dialog before 0.49
- Almost all functionality is available in the Gradient toolbar /
on-canvas editing now
Almost? What's missing?
e.g. support for custom swatches:
The current implementation of custom swatches (Auto-palette) - based on single-stop gradients for flat colors, or multi-stop regular gradients - uses the Gradient Editor dialog to allow editing of custom swatches listed in the Auto-palette, via context menu of the color swatch. With this feature it is possible to edit custom colors/gradients from the Auto-palette globally for the current file even if not used by a visible (or selected/selectable) object.
See also: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Release_notes/0.48#Custom_Swatches http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Attributes-Fill-Stroke.html#Attributes-CustomSwatches
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:45 PM, John Smith <john.smith7545@...36...> wrote:
it is possible to edit custom colors/gradients from the Auto-palette globally for the current file even if not used by a visible (or selected/selectable) object
To me "editing gradients defined in the doc but not actually used" seems like a pretty minor case, with an easy workaround, you simply assign that gradient to any object then edit on-canvas using the Gradient tool, then unassign.
Do you think it is worth keeping the Gradient Editor dialog for this alone ?
I do not personally. It seems like more of an edge case for usage imho.
Cheers, Josh
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:47 AM, ~suv <suv-sf@...58...> wrote:
e.g. support for custom swatches:
The current implementation of custom swatches (Auto-palette) - based on single-stop gradients for flat colors, or multi-stop regular gradients - uses the Gradient Editor dialog to allow editing of custom swatches listed in the Auto-palette, via context menu of the color swatch. With this feature it is possible to edit custom colors/gradients from the Auto-palette globally for the current file even if not used by a visible (or selected/selectable) object.
The single-stop ones can be edited in the Fill and Stroke dialog already (whether assigned or not). It seems like the stop selector widget could be added on that page just below the swatch selector widget and just be greyed out if it's a swatch with only one stop. This would then allow editing the unassigned gradient swatches as well.
Cheers, Josh
I use the gradient editor to quickly see what gradients are still in defs. but could live without it.
I should really be using the xml editor - man that xml editor needs a facelift,
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Josh Andler <scislac@...400...> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:47 AM, ~suv <suv-sf@...58...> wrote:
e.g. support for custom swatches:
The current implementation of custom swatches (Auto-palette) - based on single-stop gradients for flat colors, or multi-stop regular gradients - uses the Gradient Editor dialog to allow editing of custom swatches listed in the Auto-palette, via context menu of the color swatch. With this feature it is possible to edit custom colors/gradients from the Auto-palette globally for the current file even if not used by a visible (or selected/selectable) object.
The single-stop ones can be edited in the Fill and Stroke dialog already (whether assigned or not). It seems like the stop selector widget could be added on that page just below the swatch selector widget and just be greyed out if it's a swatch with only one stop. This would then allow editing the unassigned gradient swatches as well.
Cheers, Josh
Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Andy Fitzsimon <andrew@...420...> wrote:
I use the gradient editor to quickly see what gradients are still in defs. but could live without it.
That's actually covered in this related bug report mentioned earlier in the thread: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/722017 Here's an image similar to how it looks in the F&S dialog... https://launchpadlibrarian.net/95713148/inkscape-gradients.png
I should really be using the xml editor - man that xml editor needs a facelift,
Yes, yes it does... do you have any examples of another app doing something similar in a better way or would you otherwise be willing to make some mockups with ideas for how you think it could be improved?
Cheers, Josh
I guess that having a special dialog for reusable assets (maybe it could be merged to the swatches window) could solve the only case that would be missing after removing the gradient editor. I'm thinking about a dialog with a selector to choose gradients, patterns, or even "symbols" (user-definable objects to be used as clones in the document). For instance, that dialog could display all the available gradients in the document, allowing users to replace, merge (remove exact duplicates and leave a single instance) or remove them (one by one or choosing "remove unused" to automatically wipe unused definitions). It would be like a "library" dialog.
I'd love to know what you think about this idea, but I have the impression that it will solve a lot of problems and simplify several dialogs. It could be even a way to make "Vacuum defs" more obvious to regular users.
Gez
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Guillermo Espertino (Gez) wrote:
I guess that having a special dialog for reusable assets (maybe it could be merged to the swatches window) could solve the only case that would be missing after removing the gradient editor. I'm thinking about a dialog with a selector to choose gradients, patterns, or even "symbols" (user-definable objects to be used as clones in the document).
Just choose? No way :) Inkscape needs complete management of assets. I was explaining how to use XML Editor for renaming a custom pattern just few days ago to a new user. It's a horrible UX.
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
El 20/06/12 15:43, Alexandre Prokoudine escribió:
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Guillermo Espertino (Gez) wrote:
I guess that having a special dialog for reusable assets (maybe it could be merged to the swatches window) could solve the only case that would be missing after removing the gradient editor. I'm thinking about a dialog with a selector to choose gradients, patterns, or even "symbols" (user-definable objects to be used as clones in the document).
Just choose? No way :) Inkscape needs complete management of assets. I was explaining how to use XML Editor for renaming a custom pattern just few days ago to a new user. It's a horrible UX.
Ok, it was a crappy explanation. I meant to "filter" the type of assets to manage. Then being able to manage them (merge, remove, drag and drop to apply/create an instance, etc.)
Gez.
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 5:41 PM, Guillermo Espertino (Gez) <gespertino@...400...> wrote:
El 20/06/12 15:43, Alexandre Prokoudine escribió:
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Guillermo Espertino (Gez) wrote:
I guess that having a special dialog for reusable assets (maybe it could be merged to the swatches window) could solve the only case that would be missing after removing the gradient editor. I'm thinking about a dialog with a selector to choose gradients, patterns, or even "symbols" (user-definable objects to be used as clones in the document).
Just choose? No way :) Inkscape needs complete management of assets. I was explaining how to use XML Editor for renaming a custom pattern just few days ago to a new user. It's a horrible UX.
Ok, it was a crappy explanation. I meant to "filter" the type of assets to manage. Then being able to manage them (merge, remove, drag and drop to apply/create an instance, etc.)
This discussion has gotten off-topic. If there is no existing blueprint for an asset manager, please feel free to submit one on launchpad or to add comments and ideas to one if it already exists.
Cheers, Josh
On Jun 20, 2012, at 8:29 AM, Guillermo Espertino (Gez) wrote:
I guess that having a special dialog for reusable assets (maybe it could be merged to the swatches window) could solve the only case that would be missing after removing the gradient editor. I'm thinking about a dialog with a selector to choose gradients, patterns, or even "symbols" (user-definable objects to be used as clones in the document). For instance, that dialog could display all the available gradients in the document, allowing users to replace, merge (remove exact duplicates and leave a single instance) or remove them (one by one or choosing "remove unused" to automatically wipe unused definitions). It would be like a "library" dialog.
I'd love to know what you think about this idea, but I have the impression that it will solve a lot of problems and simplify several dialogs. It could be even a way to make "Vacuum defs" more obvious to regular users.
The classes that are used for the color palette area were designed to allow for exactly this. There are a few more details on the use cases to hammer out, but in general the code is there and ready to be used for more than just colors.
On Jun 19, 2012, at 6:19 PM, Josh Andler wrote:
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:47 AM, ~suv <suv-sf@...58...> wrote:
e.g. support for custom swatches:
The current implementation of custom swatches (Auto-palette) - based on single-stop gradients for flat colors, or multi-stop regular gradients - uses the Gradient Editor dialog to allow editing of custom swatches listed in the Auto-palette, via context menu of the color swatch. With this feature it is possible to edit custom colors/gradients from the Auto-palette globally for the current file even if not used by a visible (or selected/selectable) object.
The single-stop ones can be edited in the Fill and Stroke dialog already (whether assigned or not). It seems like the stop selector widget could be added on that page just below the swatch selector widget and just be greyed out if it's a swatch with only one stop. This would then allow editing the unassigned gradient swatches as well.
Yes. Just to confirm, there really should be no main reason for the single stop swatches to require the current swatch dialog to stick around.
On Jun 18, 2012, at 11:54 PM, John Smith wrote:
I propose we retire the Gradient Editor dialog before 0.49 Any objections or concerns ?
For retiring:
- Old, not maintained code with many bug reports still piling up
- Almost all functionality is available in the Gradient toolbar / on-canvas editing now
For keeping:
- Can be used to edit gradients in the document but not used on-canvas.
Here is the bug tracking the gradient editor retirement https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/950677
There are some key usability differences between the toolbar and a dedicated dialog. In our specific case we have a very poor dialog, so losing it won't be a big problem.
For the long term I've got some Java based prototyping almost done. I'll try to pull up the latter versions and get some screenshots, etc. The main idea would be to have a good dialog added in, but possibly not for a while after the current one is removed.
And to confirm what I'd said earlier on my preferences in this regard: our current dialog is so poor that as soon as we have complete feature parity with the on-canvas and toolbar then it can be dropped.
Gradient Editor has been turned off. F&S Gradient Edit button now invokes the Gradient tool. The legacy Gradient editor dialog can still be used by setting the preference "/dialogs/gradienteditor/showlegacy" to true.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/950677
________________________________ From: Jon Cruz <jon@...18...> To: John Smith <john.smith7545@...36...> Cc: "inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net" inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Retire Gradient Editor
On Jun 18, 2012, at 11:54 PM, John Smith wrote:
I propose we retire the Gradient Editor dialog before 0.49 Any objections or concerns ?
For retiring:
- Old, not maintained code with many bug reports still piling up
- Almost all functionality is available in the Gradient toolbar / on-canvas editing now
For keeping:
- Can be used to edit gradients in the document but not used on-canvas.
Here is the bug tracking the gradient editor retirement https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/950677
There are some key usability differences between the toolbar and a dedicated dialog. In our specific case we have a very poor dialog, so losing it won't be a big problem.
For the long term I've got some Java based prototyping almost done. I'll try to pull up the latter versions and get some screenshots, etc. The main idea would be to have a good dialog added in, but possibly not for a while after the current one is removed.
And to confirm what I'd said earlier on my preferences in this regard: our current dialog is so poor that as soon as we have complete feature parity with the on-canvas and toolbar then it can be dropped.
John Smith wrote
Gradient Editor has been turned off. F&S Gradient Edit button now invokes the Gradient tool. The legacy Gradient editor dialog can still be used by setting the preference "/dialogs/gradienteditor/showlegacy" to true.
Where is that "/dialogs/..." preference? How should I "set it to true"? Thanks. Luca
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Where is that "/dialogs/..." preference? How should I "set it to true"?
Added to the Preference dialog Tools->Gradient->"Use legacy Gradient Editor"
But it is likely that the Gradient Editor will be completely retired/replaced in the future. Please let me know if there is some functional reason to continue using the Gradient Editor, instead of the on-canvas Gradient tool.
Thanks for the option. I seldom use gradients. I found myself trying to define a gradient and having some difficulties with the new tool. Perhaps it's just a matter of getting used to it but I felt that something was not working properly. I'll be glad to post a more detailed description as soon as I find some time to try again less in a hurry. Regards. Luca
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Hi John, I've had little need of using gradient editor but I've tried to take a quick look at it anyway, just to be able to answer your request. Please, remember that I'm not a regular user of gradients so I don't have the full picture of this tool and my opinion can be considered as the one from a rooky user. Indeed, it's just a different way of accessing the same functionalities and I just need to get used to them.
One thing I think is not working properly is the management of alpha. I've tried this: - draw a rectangle; - apply a gradient to the fill (let's say from full black to 0% alpha black); - add a couple of intermediate stops (double clicking); - now I want the final stop solid full black (alpha 100%): select the point and RGBA field is 000000ff ? mmmh... ah! but the opacity is 0%! Why this? Well, ok, let's edit the RGBA and write the two trailing 'f's again: backspace... et voila! Why? Well, it's like I wanted it; - now I want the first intermediate stop to be 25% alpha: select the first intermediate stop and... same trick, no alpha but opacity; I don't like this at all; ok let's set the opacity to 25% and RGBA is still 000000ff; - oh yes, but I wanted it red, not black: let's pick the point in the wheel and move it to red (I'm used to edit the RGBA to ff00003f but I've accepted it's not working) and... ugh! the opacity jumps to 100% (ff)! well, ok, let's set the opacity back to 25%... this is a bug, to me; - now, the second intermediate stop must be the same as the first: I'd just copy and paste the RGBA field but it's not working so... ok I'll do it by hand but what if the color and the alpha were more complex? e.g. if they were to be copied from a different object? I'd have to write down to a paper the alpha value, copy and paste the RGBA field with the wrong trailing 'ff's then reset the correct opacity by hand.
Clicking on the 'A' bar moves the opacity slider (sometimes also the bar's cusor but it immedialty jumps back to 255) and that's not intuitive at all.
When editing the gradient you see the currently selected stop in the Fill and Stroke dialog: if you press F1 the rectangle gets selected but the Fill and Stroke dialog stil shows the last gradient stop settings and as soon as you change anything the change is applied to the rectangle destroying the gradient. The Fill and Stroke dialog should always reflect the state of the currently selected object and I think that "recycling" it for the gradient tool makes confusion during transitions from different tools. Everything should be more consistent.
If you create a second rectangle and while editing a second gradient on its fill you select the first (created before) gradient, the second gradient is deleted and you lose it! This should happen only when using then "Clean up document" option. This doesn't happen when you create a duplicate of the current gradient with the '+' button and I couldn't find a way of getting rid of that (unneeded) duplicates other than "Clean up document".
The global feel I get is that there is some weird hack acting on the interface and this gives me the sense that I'm using something that is not following my actions and doesn't let me gather completely what I need. There are too many side-effects on user actions that don't necessary follow the user's intention (at least not in my case).
In my opinion, these points should be fixed before completely retiring the old interface. The new one will not be complete until its integration with the Fill and Stroke dialog is full and the user interaction has reached at least the same level as the old one. Regards. Luca
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Hi LucaDC,
Thanks for you testing on the Gradient editor. Indeed you have found a number of issues with the Fill/Stroke dialog's handling of Gradients ...
the management of alpha.
Yes this seemed to be broken. I have committed a fix for alpha and RGBA: should also be editable again.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1028425
Next is the Opacity value - this also seems wrong. Working on a fix for this ...
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1028505
if you press F1 the rectangle gets selected but the Fill and Stroke dialog still shows the last gradient stop
Yes looks like a bug as well when switching tools, i have a patch for that and will look to commit it soon https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1029302
Select the first (created before) gradient, the second gradient is deleted and you lose it! This should happen only when using then "Clean up
document" option. Yes it seems if there are no more references to a gradient (vector) it gets deleted. This would have had to be deliberately coded by someone, I wonder if anyone knows the reason for this behavior ?
I tend to agree that a gradient created by the user probably shouldn't get deleted (even when not used), unless the user specifically wants to remove it. Others may well differ, perhaps a user preference is needed.
________________________________ From: LucaDC <dicappello@...2144...> To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Retire Gradient Editor
Hi John, I've had little need of using gradient editor but I've tried to take a quick look at it anyway, just to be able to answer your request. Please, remember that I'm not a regular user of gradients so I don't have the full picture of this tool and my opinion can be considered as the one from a rooky user. Indeed, it's just a different way of accessing the same functionalities and I just need to get used to them.
One thing I think is not working properly is the management of alpha. I've tried this: - draw a rectangle; - apply a gradient to the fill (let's say from full black to 0% alpha black); - add a couple of intermediate stops (double clicking); - now I want the final stop solid full black (alpha 100%): select the point and RGBA field is 000000ff ? mmmh... ah! but the opacity is 0%! Why this? Well, ok, let's edit the RGBA and write the two trailing 'f's again: backspace... et voila! Why? Well, it's like I wanted it; - now I want the first intermediate stop to be 25% alpha: select the first intermediate stop and... same trick, no alpha but opacity; I don't like this at all; ok let's set the opacity to 25% and RGBA is still 000000ff; - oh yes, but I wanted it red, not black: let's pick the point in the wheel and move it to red (I'm used to edit the RGBA to ff00003f but I've accepted it's not working) and... ugh! the opacity jumps to 100% (ff)! well, ok, let's set the opacity back to 25%... this is a bug, to me; - now, the second intermediate stop must be the same as the first: I'd just copy and paste the RGBA field but it's not working so... ok I'll do it by hand but what if the color and the alpha were more complex? e.g. if they were to be copied from a different object? I'd have to write down to a paper the alpha value, copy and paste the RGBA field with the wrong trailing 'ff's then reset the correct opacity by hand.
Clicking on the 'A' bar moves the opacity slider (sometimes also the bar's cusor but it immedialty jumps back to 255) and that's not intuitive at all.
When editing the gradient you see the currently selected stop in the Fill and Stroke dialog: if you press F1 the rectangle gets selected but the Fill and Stroke dialog stil shows the last gradient stop settings and as soon as you change anything the change is applied to the rectangle destroying the gradient. The Fill and Stroke dialog should always reflect the state of the currently selected object and I think that "recycling" it for the gradient tool makes confusion during transitions from different tools. Everything should be more consistent.
If you create a second rectangle and while editing a second gradient on its fill you select the first (created before) gradient, the second gradient is deleted and you lose it! This should happen only when using then "Clean up document" option. This doesn't happen when you create a duplicate of the current gradient with the '+' button and I couldn't find a way of getting rid of that (unneeded) duplicates other than "Clean up document".
The global feel I get is that there is some weird hack acting on the interface and this gives me the sense that I'm using something that is not following my actions and doesn't let me gather completely what I need. There are too many side-effects on user actions that don't necessary follow the user's intention (at least not in my case).
In my opinion, these points should be fixed before completely retiring the old interface. The new one will not be complete until its integration with the Fill and Stroke dialog is full and the user interaction has reached at least the same level as the old one. Regards. Luca
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On 26/07/2012 10:59, John Smith wrote:
On 23/07/2012 12:03, LucaDC wrote:
the management of alpha.
Yes this seemed to be broken. I have committed a fix for alpha and RGBA: should also be editable again.
WRT to "the second intermediate stop must be the same as the first": copy&pasting the style (color + opacity) of one (or the average of multiple) selected gradient stop(s) works just fine without resorting to the RGBA entry in the 'Fill & Stroke' dialog, and without the changes from revision 11572:
«When one or more gradient stops are selected, using the Copy command (Ctrl+C) copies to the clipboard the style (color and opacity) of the selected stop or the averaged style of several selected stops, not the entire object with gradient as before. This means you can now copy/paste style between stops: select the source stop(s), copy, select the destination stop(s), paste style (Ctrl+Shift+V). With several selected stops, this also allows you to easily average their colors and opacities by copying them and pasting the style back onto them. (After that, redundant gradient stops can be removed by simplification with Ctrl+L).» http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Release_notes/0.46#Style_of_gradient_stops
Next is the Opacity value - this also seems wrong. Working on a fix for this ...
Using the opacity slider for the 'stop-opacity' value of the selected gradient stop(s) instead of the 'Alpha' slider (which for flat colors controls the 'fill-opacity' / 'stroke-opacity' property) is not a bug in itself IMHO - it was a deliberate decision you might agree or disagree with:
«When you have one of the gradient handles selected, its style (color and opacity) is reflected by the selected style indicator (left of the statusbar) and the Fill&Stroke dialog. Previously, opacity of a gradient handle was reflected as fill-opacity and stroke-opacity; now it is reflected as master opacity (the "O:" spinbutton in the selected style indicator, the "Master opacity" slider in Fill&Stroke). This makes it much easier to view and change opacity of gradient handles using only the selected style indicator in the statusbar.» http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Release_notes/0.46#Style_of_gradient_stops
If - based on whichever reasoning - the opacity slider is simply reverted to set the global (aka master) opacity of the object instead of the opacity of the selected gradient stop, then - if you want to be consistent in the UI - the same needs to apply to the 'O:' widget in the style indicator of the status bar. The obvious consequence: the opacity of a gradient stop can _only_ be set via Fill & Stroke dialog, and even with the enhanced gradient tool controls bar, working with gradients will require to have 'Fill & Stroke' opened all the time, and removes to a large extent the usability of the main color palette to quickly edit the style of selected gradient stops (you can't control the opacity anymore, which would be essential for most (even basic) use cases of gradients).
It won't help either to address the fact that Inkscape's GUI lacks to represent all three levels of opacity which influence how a gradient is rendered: - 'stop-opacity' - 'fill-opacity', 'stroke-opacity' - 'opacity' (Note: this last point also affects patterns - i.e. fill-opacity and stroke-opacity are inaccessible via Inkscape's GUI as soon as a paint server other than flat color is used).
Yes it seems if there are no more references to a gradient (vector) it gets deleted. This would have had to be deliberately coded by someone, I wonder if anyone knows the reason for this behavior ?
WRT automatic garbage collection of unreferenced resources (AFAIU intentional behavior): I do hope one of the core developers will reply in greater detail - in the meantime all I can do is offer a link to the wiki page with notes about the underlying considerations for garbage collection [1]: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Developer_manual#Garbage_collection (Note: the page may contain partially outdated information with regard to the current code base)
~suv
[1] earlier discussions about garbage collection are likely to be found in the mailing list archives: http://search.gmane.org/form.php?group=gmane.comp.graphics.inkscape.*&sort=date
participants (15)
-
unknown＠example.com -
Alexandre Prokoudine -
Andy Fitzsimon -
Guillermo Espertino (Gez) -
John Smith -
Jon Cruz -
Josh Andler -
Kris De Gussem -
Krzysztof Kosiński -
Luca Bruno -
LucaDC -
mathog -
Ted Gould -
Thorsten Wilms -
~suv