Dear Leadership Committee,
You attention is required to vote on funding for the Inkscape 1.2 release video for 2022. As previously mentioned in our budget meeting, we have in our project a well respected video creator who makes videos for Gnome, the SFC and has made two previous Inkscape release videos and who needs funding for their work in the coming year.
Background:
We as a project benefit from having a good looking and timely release video and this funding will enable our contributor, Chris Rogers, to spend the needed time without overwork.
Videos for reference: 1.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlS0zKXsdvo 1.0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6UHXkND4Sc Gnome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2D4aWTsXM GUADEC Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9e0cyrryRY
Conflict of Interest:
* Chris Rogers is a member of this committee and will not be able to vote on this measure as a matter of conflict of interest.
Ballot:
1. Spend $2,500 on a release video for Inkscape 1.2 2. Do not spend any money on a release video 3. Something else...
Thanks everyone.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
I vote 3.
In looking through the release notes, I'm not sure $2,500 is merited for a video of this minor release (I'm stating that as opposed to a major release, not saying it's not significant... just that I don't know how much there is to demo in a "sales pitch" way). I am not against funding for it, but it's not a trivial amount of money for the apparent lack of changes in many regards (again, going based on release notes there are non-trivial changes in some areas and just a lot of stuff that you can't demonstrate quickly for the places that received substantive changes w/o the video focusing too much on any one area and then not being good at promotion as opposed to explanation). I'd probably suggest $1,000-$1,500 instead for this. I'm interested to see if funding seems to make a difference. That said, I'd be more comfortable starting a little smaller given the lack of uniform votes for a farewell gift for Bryce and his 20+ years of involvement in Inkscape and it's related projects. I'm not opposed to the full amount, my preference is a smaller start with a less "amazing" release than the past two.
Cheers, Josh
On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 11:58 AM Martin Owens doctormo@geek-2.com wrote:
Dear Leadership Committee,
You attention is required to vote on funding for the Inkscape 1.2 release video for 2022. As previously mentioned in our budget meeting, we have in our project a well respected video creator who makes videos for Gnome, the SFC and has made two previous Inkscape release videos and who needs funding for their work in the coming year.
Background:
We as a project benefit from having a good looking and timely release video and this funding will enable our contributor, Chris Rogers, to spend the needed time without overwork.
Videos for reference: 1.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlS0zKXsdvo 1.0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6UHXkND4Sc Gnome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2D4aWTsXM GUADEC Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9e0cyrryRY
Conflict of Interest:
- Chris Rogers is a member of this committee and will not be able to
vote on this measure as a matter of conflict of interest.
Ballot:
- Spend $2,500 on a release video for Inkscape 1.2
- Do not spend any money on a release video
- Something else...
Thanks everyone.
Best Regards, Martin Owens _______________________________________________ Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Just some notes RE: the 1.2 video:
A ton of work has been done for this "minor" release. For reference, I try to highlight 10-12 of the most exciting changes in a release video, at that price point. Not to mention that these release notes are incomplete, and don't include things like Doc's much anticipated multipage features, which (I think) will also go into the 1.2 release. These things are a BIG DEAL for the community. In the end, we're going to have to choose which of all the amazing new features and fixes will go into the video - we will not struggle to find things to highlight.
I can assure everyone there's /at least/ as much work that will happen for this video as for the last two videos. Indeed, there will be *more* work with this video to re-do some of the style, change the music, and add more UX motion graphics, which people in the project have been asking for to elevate Inkscape's videos to the level of Blender's, for example.
The video also includes animation of the about screen contest winner's art. This is an important community building facet of each release, and should go in the video. With a year's worth of work from so many of our dedicated developers, UX folks, etc, it seems a shame to say this is a minor release, and treat it like a second class citizen in regards to the previous two.
Just some thoughts to help make the decision more clear vs deliverables. -C
On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 3:53 AM Josh Andler scislac@gmail.com wrote:
I vote 3.
In looking through the release notes, I'm not sure $2,500 is merited for a video of this minor release (I'm stating that as opposed to a major release, not saying it's not significant... just that I don't know how much there is to demo in a "sales pitch" way). I am not against funding for it, but it's not a trivial amount of money for the apparent lack of changes in many regards (again, going based on release notes there are non-trivial changes in some areas and just a lot of stuff that you can't demonstrate quickly for the places that received substantive changes w/o the video focusing too much on any one area and then not being good at promotion as opposed to explanation). I'd probably suggest $1,000-$1,500 instead for this. I'm interested to see if funding seems to make a difference. That said, I'd be more comfortable starting a little smaller given the lack of uniform votes for a farewell gift for Bryce and his 20+ years of involvement in Inkscape and it's related projects. I'm not opposed to the full amount, my preference is a smaller start with a less "amazing" release than the past two.
Cheers, Josh
On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 11:58 AM Martin Owens doctormo@geek-2.com wrote:
Dear Leadership Committee,
You attention is required to vote on funding for the Inkscape 1.2 release video for 2022. As previously mentioned in our budget meeting, we have in our project a well respected video creator who makes videos for Gnome, the SFC and has made two previous Inkscape release videos and who needs funding for their work in the coming year.
Background:
We as a project benefit from having a good looking and timely release video and this funding will enable our contributor, Chris Rogers, to spend the needed time without overwork.
Videos for reference: 1.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlS0zKXsdvo 1.0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6UHXkND4Sc Gnome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2D4aWTsXM GUADEC Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9e0cyrryRY
Conflict of Interest:
- Chris Rogers is a member of this committee and will not be able to
vote on this measure as a matter of conflict of interest.
Ballot:
- Spend $2,500 on a release video for Inkscape 1.2
- Do not spend any money on a release video
- Something else...
Thanks everyone.
Best Regards, Martin Owens _______________________________________________ Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
I wasn't trying to impune anyone's hard work or efforts or anything that has gone into it. My use of the word "minor" was simply indicating the format of 1.2.0 (major.minor.point/bugfix). It wasn't any form of commentary. If the current release notes are an indication of how much is undocumented given your convincing pitch vs what's listed then they're woefully in bad shape. And no, that's not a dig at anyone's contributions or calling anyone out because things weren't well documented while being worked on, but going on that page alone it's not /feeling/ like a "BIG DEAL" for this community member (especially with the lack of Multipage, that would be a game changer alone).
I'm also going to throw out there that something as major as Multipage (if it's really primetime ready) might merit a "major" release... it's that significant of a change imho (yes, I'm suggesting that alone could merit a 2.0). However, version numbering is obviously something different people have different views on and this also isn't the place for that discussion. ;)
Cheers, Josh
On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 2:38 AM C R cajhne@gmail.com wrote:
Just some notes RE: the 1.2 video:
A ton of work has been done for this "minor" release. For reference, I try to highlight 10-12 of the most exciting changes in a release video, at that price point. Not to mention that these release notes are incomplete, and don't include things like Doc's much anticipated multipage features, which (I think) will also go into the 1.2 release. These things are a BIG DEAL for the community. In the end, we're going to have to choose which of all the amazing new features and fixes will go into the video - we will not struggle to find things to highlight.
I can assure everyone there's /at least/ as much work that will happen for this video as for the last two videos. Indeed, there will be *more* work with this video to re-do some of the style, change the music, and add more UX motion graphics, which people in the project have been asking for to elevate Inkscape's videos to the level of Blender's, for example.
The video also includes animation of the about screen contest winner's art. This is an important community building facet of each release, and should go in the video. With a year's worth of work from so many of our dedicated developers, UX folks, etc, it seems a shame to say this is a minor release, and treat it like a second class citizen in regards to the previous two.
Just some thoughts to help make the decision more clear vs deliverables. -C
On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 3:53 AM Josh Andler scislac@gmail.com wrote:
I vote 3.
In looking through the release notes, I'm not sure $2,500 is merited for a video of this minor release (I'm stating that as opposed to a major release, not saying it's not significant... just that I don't know how much there is to demo in a "sales pitch" way). I am not against funding for it, but it's not a trivial amount of money for the apparent lack of changes in many regards (again, going based on release notes there are non-trivial changes in some areas and just a lot of stuff that you can't demonstrate quickly for the places that received substantive changes w/o the video focusing too much on any one area and then not being good at promotion as opposed to explanation). I'd probably suggest $1,000-$1,500 instead for this. I'm interested to see if funding seems to make a difference. That said, I'd be more comfortable starting a little smaller given the lack of uniform votes for a farewell gift for Bryce and his 20+ years of involvement in Inkscape and it's related projects. I'm not opposed to the full amount, my preference is a smaller start with a less "amazing" release than the past two.
Cheers, Josh
On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 11:58 AM Martin Owens doctormo@geek-2.com wrote:
Dear Leadership Committee,
You attention is required to vote on funding for the Inkscape 1.2 release video for 2022. As previously mentioned in our budget meeting, we have in our project a well respected video creator who makes videos for Gnome, the SFC and has made two previous Inkscape release videos and who needs funding for their work in the coming year.
Background:
We as a project benefit from having a good looking and timely release video and this funding will enable our contributor, Chris Rogers, to spend the needed time without overwork.
Videos for reference: 1.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlS0zKXsdvo 1.0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6UHXkND4Sc Gnome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2D4aWTsXM GUADEC Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9e0cyrryRY
Conflict of Interest:
- Chris Rogers is a member of this committee and will not be able to
vote on this measure as a matter of conflict of interest.
Ballot:
- Spend $2,500 on a release video for Inkscape 1.2
- Do not spend any money on a release video
- Something else...
Thanks everyone.
Best Regards, Martin Owens _______________________________________________ Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Fair enough. So knowing that there are as many or more things to show in this video as in the previous two, are you willing to change your vote?
Asking for a friend. ;) -C
On Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 19:49 Josh Andler scislac@gmail.com wrote:
I wasn't trying to impune anyone's hard work or efforts or anything that has gone into it. My use of the word "minor" was simply indicating the format of 1.2.0 (major.minor.point/bugfix). It wasn't any form of commentary. If the current release notes are an indication of how much is undocumented given your convincing pitch vs what's listed then they're woefully in bad shape. And no, that's not a dig at anyone's contributions or calling anyone out because things weren't well documented while being worked on, but going on that page alone it's not /feeling/ like a "BIG DEAL" for this community member (especially with the lack of Multipage, that would be a game changer alone).
I'm also going to throw out there that something as major as Multipage (if it's really primetime ready) might merit a "major" release... it's that significant of a change imho (yes, I'm suggesting that alone could merit a 2.0). However, version numbering is obviously something different people have different views on and this also isn't the place for that discussion. ;)
Cheers, Josh
On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 2:38 AM C R cajhne@gmail.com wrote:
Just some notes RE: the 1.2 video:
A ton of work has been done for this "minor" release. For reference, I try to highlight 10-12 of the most exciting changes in a release video, at that price point. Not to mention that these release notes are incomplete, and don't include things like Doc's much anticipated multipage features, which (I think) will also go into the 1.2 release. These things are a BIG DEAL for the community. In the end, we're going to have to choose which of all the amazing new features and fixes will go into the video - we will not struggle to find things to highlight.
I can assure everyone there's /at least/ as much work that will happen for this video as for the last two videos. Indeed, there will be *more* work with this video to re-do some of the style, change the music, and add more UX motion graphics, which people in the project have been asking for to elevate Inkscape's videos to the level of Blender's, for example.
The video also includes animation of the about screen contest winner's art. This is an important community building facet of each release, and should go in the video. With a year's worth of work from so many of our dedicated developers, UX folks, etc, it seems a shame to say this is a minor release, and treat it like a second class citizen in regards to the previous two.
Just some thoughts to help make the decision more clear vs deliverables. -C
On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 3:53 AM Josh Andler scislac@gmail.com wrote:
I vote 3.
In looking through the release notes, I'm not sure $2,500 is merited for a video of this minor release (I'm stating that as opposed to a major release, not saying it's not significant... just that I don't know how much there is to demo in a "sales pitch" way). I am not against funding for it, but it's not a trivial amount of money for the apparent lack of changes in many regards (again, going based on release notes there are non-trivial changes in some areas and just a lot of stuff that you can't demonstrate quickly for the places that received substantive changes w/o the video focusing too much on any one area and then not being good at promotion as opposed to explanation). I'd probably suggest $1,000-$1,500 instead for this. I'm interested to see if funding seems to make a difference. That said, I'd be more comfortable starting a little smaller given the lack of uniform votes for a farewell gift for Bryce and his 20+ years of involvement in Inkscape and it's related projects. I'm not opposed to the full amount, my preference is a smaller start with a less "amazing" release than the past two.
Cheers, Josh
On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 11:58 AM Martin Owens doctormo@geek-2.com wrote:
Dear Leadership Committee,
You attention is required to vote on funding for the Inkscape 1.2 release video for 2022. As previously mentioned in our budget meeting, we have in our project a well respected video creator who makes videos for Gnome, the SFC and has made two previous Inkscape release videos and who needs funding for their work in the coming year.
Background:
We as a project benefit from having a good looking and timely release video and this funding will enable our contributor, Chris Rogers, to spend the needed time without overwork.
Videos for reference: 1.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlS0zKXsdvo 1.0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6UHXkND4Sc Gnome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2D4aWTsXM GUADEC Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9e0cyrryRY
Conflict of Interest:
- Chris Rogers is a member of this committee and will not be able to
vote on this measure as a matter of conflict of interest.
Ballot:
- Spend $2,500 on a release video for Inkscape 1.2
- Do not spend any money on a release video
- Something else...
Thanks everyone.
Best Regards, Martin Owens _______________________________________________ Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Chris,
I need to ask you to not ask for members to change their vote as it is just as much of a conflict of interest as you voting directly.
Josh,
Please vote however you feel is necessary for this topic. If you feel your vote requires further information we can sit down with the vectors team to give you clarification on if the release should be considered important enough to have a video as I believe they have the best information with regard to how users we receive the release.
Please let me know.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Wed, 2021-12-15 at 19:55 +0100, C R wrote:
Fair enough. So knowing that there are as many or more things to show in this video as in the previous two, are you willing to change your vote?
Asking for a friend. ;)
Thanks... It was more of a reminder than a request. I guess I could have worded it better. I'll keep further cheeky commentary to myself.
Apologies. -C
On Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 20:25 Martin Owens doctormo@geek-2.com wrote:
Chris,
I need to ask you to not ask for members to change their vote as it is just as much of a conflict of interest as you voting directly.
Josh,
Please vote however you feel is necessary for this topic. If you feel your vote requires further information we can sit down with the vectors team to give you clarification on if the release should be considered important enough to have a video as I believe they have the best information with regard to how users we receive the release.
Please let me know.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Wed, 2021-12-15 at 19:55 +0100, C R wrote:
Fair enough. So knowing that there are as many or more things to show in this video as in the previous two, are you willing to change your vote?
Asking for a friend. ;)
Dear All,
Marc wanted some clarrification and asked the vectors this question:
"Do you, as the vectors team, feel like the release videos Chris does, are useful for outreach ? would you qualify them as an important asset for advertizing newest Inkscape version and features ? as an essential tool that we should always do ? Thanks for any comment on this, both in general for yearly releases, and in the specific case of the incoming 1.2 new features, if the answer is different."
I'm forwarding the vector's team responses:
Moini: "useful - agree. important - agree. essential - no, the only things really essential are downloadable files and some way of informing the public about their existence (social media, news article, whatever)"
Lazur: "yes, imho visual cues are more essential than any article, the screen generations attention span is down to 20 seconds"
Ryan: "I think video in general is good. I'd like Chris to make a video, but if I think a video highlighting what Inkscape is and how it's different, that could live on the home page of the website, would be much more valuable. Follow on videos showing people how to contribute to the project, would be valuable too, but probably shouldn't be completely animated. The incremental improvements to the software, while neat, are speaking to our current audience, not necessarily growing it. I'm pretty sure we get a lot of stray visits to the home page from people who don't really understand why Inkscape is free and why they should get excited about that. Just my $0.02. I'd like to have a release video for 2.0 though. The 1.0 release video got 71k views. The 1.1 got 12k."
Michele: "I love our release videos! They inspire creativity and imagination. They rock! Period. They are useful for outreach, an important asset for advertising and fairly essential to the process of big releases. Video is a bit of a king these days, certainly a powerful first-contact medium. That said, Inkscape would certainly benefit from more evergreen videos - not necessarily animated. I can see the potential in an animated evergreen explanation of the Inkscape project. Exciting to consider being able to invest in these kinds of tools for promotion and education around the project, open source and to contribute."
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Tue, 2021-12-14 at 14:57 -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
Dear Leadership Committee,
You attention is required to vote on funding for the Inkscape 1.2 release video for 2022. As previously mentioned in our budget meeting, we have in our project a well respected video creator who makes videos for Gnome, the SFC and has made two previous Inkscape release videos and who needs funding for their work in the coming year.
Background:
We as a project benefit from having a good looking and timely release video and this funding will enable our contributor, Chris Rogers, to spend the needed time without overwork.
Videos for reference: 1.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlS0zKXsdvo 1.0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6UHXkND4Sc Gnome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2D4aWTsXM GUADEC Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9e0cyrryRY
Conflict of Interest:
- Chris Rogers is a member of this committee and will not be able to
vote on this measure as a matter of conflict of interest.
Ballot:
- Spend $2,500 on a release video for Inkscape 1.2
- Do not spend any money on a release video
- Something else...
Thanks everyone.
Best Regards, Martin Owens _______________________________________________ Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
So I think I need to vote "3. Something else..." on this because I'm not quite sure what this referendum does.
We can't really "spend $2500" as we'd have to ask the SFC to negotiate a contract with CR to do the video and we'd need to provide them the details to do that. And we can't really add it to the budget, because we don't have one. So I think this needs to be something else. Also, I don't think that budgeting is a conflict of interest as generally speaking it is open and all bidders would have equal access to our budget. But, I can see how some folks would see it as such. So I think perhaps we should have a budget item in the Vectors budget (and ask them how much) for Release Promotion. That could include a longer video. Or perhaps a shorter video and paying for it to be an ad on various creative YouTube channels. (or something else, not my specialty). Then CR would have to avoid discussions on how to promote the release, but could talk about the overall budget. Lastly, just to play devil's advocate against myself (surely the drugs have worn off), a release video does have certain community building impacts as Michelle noted. Perhaps that's a reason to leave it out of the vectors section of the budget. Ted On Dec 14 2021, at 1:57 pm, Martin Owens doctormo@geek-2.com wrote:
Dear Leadership Committee,
You attention is required to vote on funding for the Inkscape 1.2 release video for 2022. As previously mentioned in our budget meeting, we have in our project a well respected video creator who makes videos for Gnome, the SFC and has made two previous Inkscape release videos and who needs funding for their work in the coming year.
Background: We as a project benefit from having a good looking and timely release video and this funding will enable our contributor, Chris Rogers, to spend the needed time without overwork.
Videos for reference: 1.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlS0zKXsdvo 1.0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6UHXkND4Sc Gnome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2D4aWTsXM GUADEC Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9e0cyrryRY
Conflict of Interest:
- Chris Rogers is a member of this committee and will not be able to
vote on this measure as a matter of conflict of interest.
Ballot:
- Spend $2,500 on a release video for Inkscape 1.2
- Do not spend any money on a release video
- Something else...
Thanks everyone. Best Regards, Martin Owens _______________________________________________ Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Due to the somewhat underwhelming response, it seems the project isn't sure whether a release video is an important part of the release. It would be wrong of me to ask the project to pay for something it's not sure it wants in the first place.
I agree with Ted that the Vectors should be in charge of funding this project with the outreach budget, as it's an outreach activity, and if there's no budget yet, it's hardly worth proceeding.
I'm withdrawing my offer for this release video. Let's do something else.
-C
On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 6:23 PM Ted Gould ted@gould.cx wrote:
So I think I need to vote "3. Something else..." on this because I'm not quite sure what this referendum does.
We can't really "spend $2500" as we'd have to ask the SFC to negotiate a contract with CR to do the video and we'd need to provide them the details to do that. And we can't really add it to the budget, because we don't have one. So I think this needs to be something else.
Also, I don't think that budgeting is a conflict of interest as generally speaking it is open and all bidders would have equal access to our budget. But, I can see how some folks would see it as such. So I think perhaps we should have a budget item in the Vectors budget (and ask them how much) for Release Promotion. That could include a longer video. Or perhaps a shorter video and paying for it to be an ad on various creative YouTube channels. (or something else, not my specialty). Then CR would have to avoid discussions on how to promote the release, but could talk about the overall budget.
Lastly, just to play devil's advocate against myself (surely the drugs have worn off), a release video does have certain community building impacts as Michelle noted. Perhaps that's a reason to leave it out of the vectors section of the budget.
Ted On Dec 14 2021, at 1:57 pm, Martin Owens doctormo@geek-2.com wrote:
Dear Leadership Committee,
You attention is required to vote on funding for the Inkscape 1.2 release video for 2022. As previously mentioned in our budget meeting, we have in our project a well respected video creator who makes videos for Gnome, the SFC and has made two previous Inkscape release videos and who needs funding for their work in the coming year.
Background:
We as a project benefit from having a good looking and timely release video and this funding will enable our contributor, Chris Rogers, to spend the needed time without overwork.
Videos for reference: 1.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlS0zKXsdvo 1.0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6UHXkND4Sc Gnome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2D4aWTsXM GUADEC Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9e0cyrryRY
Conflict of Interest:
- Chris Rogers is a member of this committee and will not be able to
vote on this measure as a matter of conflict of interest.
Ballot:
- Spend $2,500 on a release video for Inkscape 1.2
- Do not spend any money on a release video
- Something else...
Thanks everyone.
Best Regards, Martin Owens _______________________________________________ Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Additionally, I'd like to thank Martin, and Mc for taking the lead on this. I appreciate the effort it took to put this together, and ask around for feedback on it. :) -C
On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 8:41 PM C R cajhne@gmail.com wrote:
Due to the somewhat underwhelming response, it seems the project isn't sure whether a release video is an important part of the release. It would be wrong of me to ask the project to pay for something it's not sure it wants in the first place.
I agree with Ted that the Vectors should be in charge of funding this project with the outreach budget, as it's an outreach activity, and if there's no budget yet, it's hardly worth proceeding.
I'm withdrawing my offer for this release video. Let's do something else.
-C
On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 6:23 PM Ted Gould ted@gould.cx wrote:
So I think I need to vote "3. Something else..." on this because I'm not quite sure what this referendum does.
We can't really "spend $2500" as we'd have to ask the SFC to negotiate a contract with CR to do the video and we'd need to provide them the details to do that. And we can't really add it to the budget, because we don't have one. So I think this needs to be something else.
Also, I don't think that budgeting is a conflict of interest as generally speaking it is open and all bidders would have equal access to our budget. But, I can see how some folks would see it as such. So I think perhaps we should have a budget item in the Vectors budget (and ask them how much) for Release Promotion. That could include a longer video. Or perhaps a shorter video and paying for it to be an ad on various creative YouTube channels. (or something else, not my specialty). Then CR would have to avoid discussions on how to promote the release, but could talk about the overall budget.
Lastly, just to play devil's advocate against myself (surely the drugs have worn off), a release video does have certain community building impacts as Michelle noted. Perhaps that's a reason to leave it out of the vectors section of the budget.
Ted On Dec 14 2021, at 1:57 pm, Martin Owens doctormo@geek-2.com wrote:
Dear Leadership Committee,
You attention is required to vote on funding for the Inkscape 1.2 release video for 2022. As previously mentioned in our budget meeting, we have in our project a well respected video creator who makes videos for Gnome, the SFC and has made two previous Inkscape release videos and who needs funding for their work in the coming year.
Background:
We as a project benefit from having a good looking and timely release video and this funding will enable our contributor, Chris Rogers, to spend the needed time without overwork.
Videos for reference: 1.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlS0zKXsdvo 1.0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6UHXkND4Sc Gnome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2D4aWTsXM GUADEC Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9e0cyrryRY
Conflict of Interest:
- Chris Rogers is a member of this committee and will not be able to
vote on this measure as a matter of conflict of interest.
Ballot:
- Spend $2,500 on a release video for Inkscape 1.2
- Do not spend any money on a release video
- Something else...
Thanks everyone.
Best Regards, Martin Owens _______________________________________________ Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Hi all,
My head is spinning on this one... I've read through all the comments and they all make sense. And the fact that CR has withdrawn his offer may make discussing this further a moot point, but I'll add my 2 centimes.
To begin, I think CR's videos are fantastic and $2500 is chump change for the work. But that is not the primary question here, which is should we as a project fund release videos?
I do think it is a good idea as it helps increases the hype around Inkscape, letting people know that we are still a very active project and showing off the work that we want to highlight. Even if 1.2 is a "minor" release, a video can be seen to have value even if it is not tied to major advances in the program itself. After all, Coca-Cola doesn't wait around till it has a new type of Coke to promote its product!
I decided to do something a bit different and have a look at how widely viewed the videos are:
1.0 71,972 views 2.9k Likes, No dislikes! 1.1 12,288 views 952 Likes, No dislikes!
As comparison:
Gnome 3.36 141,645 views 4.3k Likes, No dislikes!
One thing is clear, people that watch CR's videos, love them. I'm actually a little surprise that the view number for 1.1 is not higher... maybe we didn't promote it enough? If this is what we can expect for a 1.2 release video, it works out to $0.20 per view. This is my primary concern.
Now, we are not the only ones to produce "Inkscape release videos". There are actually 1.1 release videos that had more views than the "official" one:
1.1 Davies 42,588 views 1.1 askNK 18,030 views
So we are getting "free" publicity from others (who seem to be better at promoting their work).
After considering the benefits vs. costs, I am going to vote 1 with the understanding that this needs to go through SFC which may result in a "competitive" process.
Tav
----- Original Message ----- | From: "Martin Owens" doctormo@geek-2.com | To: "Inkscape Board" inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org | Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 8:57:50 PM | Subject: [Inkscape-board] VOTE: Release Video Budget | | Dear Leadership Committee, | | You attention is required to vote on funding for the Inkscape 1.2 | release video for 2022. As previously mentioned in our budget | meeting, | we have in our project a well respected video creator who makes | videos | for Gnome, the SFC and has made two previous Inkscape release videos | and who needs funding for their work in the coming year. | | Background: | | We as a project benefit from having a good looking and timely release | video and this funding will enable our contributor, Chris Rogers, to | spend the needed time without overwork. | | Videos for reference: | 1.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlS0zKXsdvo | 1.0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6UHXkND4Sc | Gnome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2D4aWTsXM | GUADEC Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9e0cyrryRY | | Conflict of Interest: | | * Chris Rogers is a member of this committee and will not be able to | vote on this measure as a matter of conflict of interest. | | Ballot: | | 1. Spend $2,500 on a release video for Inkscape 1.2 | 2. Do not spend any money on a release video | 3. Something else... | | Thanks everyone. | | Best Regards, Martin Owens | _______________________________________________ | Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- | inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org | To unsubscribe send an email to | inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org |
Just a note regarding the dislikes: Youtube recently disabled the dislike view count. There were indeed some salty KDE users disliking GNOME videos (and complaining loudly in the comment section about a DE they don't even use), but you always get those. :) It's true that the likes far exceeded the dislikes, however.
It's true that FOSS and graphics software Youtubers watch our release videos and even borrow artwork from them, often discussing point-on-point what we show in the video.
The reason the 1.1 video received fewer views is because the release video was crammed into the bottom of the announcement article, relying on people to read through the whole thing (which very few will do) to find it. It should have been at the top for maximum exposure. The views it got were solely based off the momentum of the Youtube algorithms of our Youtube channel. , and subscribers we gained. If we do decide to do more release videos in the future, we need to at least treat them like the month's worth of work that they represent. Otherwise, it's definitely not going to be worth the $2500, or indeed, anyone's time to make it.
-C
On Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 9:35 AM tavmjong@free.fr wrote:
Hi all,
My head is spinning on this one... I've read through all the comments and they all make sense. And the fact that CR has withdrawn his offer may make discussing this further a moot point, but I'll add my 2 centimes.
To begin, I think CR's videos are fantastic and $2500 is chump change for the work. But that is not the primary question here, which is should we as a project fund release videos?
I do think it is a good idea as it helps increases the hype around Inkscape, letting people know that we are still a very active project and showing off the work that we want to highlight. Even if 1.2 is a "minor" release, a video can be seen to have value even if it is not tied to major advances in the program itself. After all, Coca-Cola doesn't wait around till it has a new type of Coke to promote its product!
I decided to do something a bit different and have a look at how widely viewed the videos are:
1.0 71,972 views 2.9k Likes, No dislikes! 1.1 12,288 views 952 Likes, No dislikes!
As comparison:
Gnome 3.36 141,645 views 4.3k Likes, No dislikes!
One thing is clear, people that watch CR's videos, love them. I'm actually a little surprise that the view number for 1.1 is not higher... maybe we didn't promote it enough? If this is what we can expect for a 1.2 release video, it works out to $0.20 per view. This is my primary concern.
Now, we are not the only ones to produce "Inkscape release videos". There are actually 1.1 release videos that had more views than the "official" one:
1.1 Davies 42,588 views 1.1 askNK 18,030 views
So we are getting "free" publicity from others (who seem to be better at promoting their work).
After considering the benefits vs. costs, I am going to vote 1 with the understanding that this needs to go through SFC which may result in a "competitive" process.
Tav
----- Original Message ----- | From: "Martin Owens" doctormo@geek-2.com | To: "Inkscape Board" inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org | Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 8:57:50 PM | Subject: [Inkscape-board] VOTE: Release Video Budget | | Dear Leadership Committee, | | You attention is required to vote on funding for the Inkscape 1.2 | release video for 2022. As previously mentioned in our budget | meeting, | we have in our project a well respected video creator who makes | videos | for Gnome, the SFC and has made two previous Inkscape release videos | and who needs funding for their work in the coming year. | | Background: | | We as a project benefit from having a good looking and timely release | video and this funding will enable our contributor, Chris Rogers, to | spend the needed time without overwork. | | Videos for reference: | 1.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlS0zKXsdvo | 1.0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6UHXkND4Sc | Gnome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2D4aWTsXM | GUADEC Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9e0cyrryRY | | Conflict of Interest: | | * Chris Rogers is a member of this committee and will not be able to | vote on this measure as a matter of conflict of interest. | | Ballot: | | 1. Spend $2,500 on a release video for Inkscape 1.2 | 2. Do not spend any money on a release video | 3. Something else... | | Thanks everyone. | | Best Regards, Martin Owens | _______________________________________________ | Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- | inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org | To unsubscribe send an email to | inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org | _______________________________________________ Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Having announced that I'll not be doing the video this year on the Vectors channel, the reaction has prompted me to think that if there were a budget approved for the Vectors team to spend annually on outreach, that the video might have a better chance of getting funded as an outreach activity rather than just a one-off.
I propose we cancel this vote, and proceed as Ted suggested instead to work with the Vectors team to get them set up with an annual spending budget for all outreach items including one (or more) video projects. Ryan seems to have lots of ideas for what we can do to get more eyeballs on Inkscape in addition to a release video.
If we can get that done in January or February, then I'll re-think throwing my hat in the ring for the video. -C
On Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 10:08 AM C R cajhne@gmail.com wrote:
Just a note regarding the dislikes: Youtube recently disabled the dislike view count. There were indeed some salty KDE users disliking GNOME videos (and complaining loudly in the comment section about a DE they don't even use), but you always get those. :) It's true that the likes far exceeded the dislikes, however.
It's true that FOSS and graphics software Youtubers watch our release videos and even borrow artwork from them, often discussing point-on-point what we show in the video.
The reason the 1.1 video received fewer views is because the release video was crammed into the bottom of the announcement article, relying on people to read through the whole thing (which very few will do) to find it. It should have been at the top for maximum exposure. The views it got were solely based off the momentum of the Youtube algorithms of our Youtube channel. , and subscribers we gained. If we do decide to do more release videos in the future, we need to at least treat them like the month's worth of work that they represent. Otherwise, it's definitely not going to be worth the $2500, or indeed, anyone's time to make it.
-C
On Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 9:35 AM tavmjong@free.fr wrote:
Hi all,
My head is spinning on this one... I've read through all the comments and they all make sense. And the fact that CR has withdrawn his offer may make discussing this further a moot point, but I'll add my 2 centimes.
To begin, I think CR's videos are fantastic and $2500 is chump change for the work. But that is not the primary question here, which is should we as a project fund release videos?
I do think it is a good idea as it helps increases the hype around Inkscape, letting people know that we are still a very active project and showing off the work that we want to highlight. Even if 1.2 is a "minor" release, a video can be seen to have value even if it is not tied to major advances in the program itself. After all, Coca-Cola doesn't wait around till it has a new type of Coke to promote its product!
I decided to do something a bit different and have a look at how widely viewed the videos are:
1.0 71,972 views 2.9k Likes, No dislikes! 1.1 12,288 views 952 Likes, No dislikes!
As comparison:
Gnome 3.36 141,645 views 4.3k Likes, No dislikes!
One thing is clear, people that watch CR's videos, love them. I'm actually a little surprise that the view number for 1.1 is not higher... maybe we didn't promote it enough? If this is what we can expect for a 1.2 release video, it works out to $0.20 per view. This is my primary concern.
Now, we are not the only ones to produce "Inkscape release videos". There are actually 1.1 release videos that had more views than the "official" one:
1.1 Davies 42,588 views 1.1 askNK 18,030 views
So we are getting "free" publicity from others (who seem to be better at promoting their work).
After considering the benefits vs. costs, I am going to vote 1 with the understanding that this needs to go through SFC which may result in a "competitive" process.
Tav
----- Original Message ----- | From: "Martin Owens" doctormo@geek-2.com | To: "Inkscape Board" inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org | Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 8:57:50 PM | Subject: [Inkscape-board] VOTE: Release Video Budget | | Dear Leadership Committee, | | You attention is required to vote on funding for the Inkscape 1.2 | release video for 2022. As previously mentioned in our budget | meeting, | we have in our project a well respected video creator who makes | videos | for Gnome, the SFC and has made two previous Inkscape release videos | and who needs funding for their work in the coming year. | | Background: | | We as a project benefit from having a good looking and timely release | video and this funding will enable our contributor, Chris Rogers, to | spend the needed time without overwork. | | Videos for reference: | 1.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlS0zKXsdvo | 1.0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6UHXkND4Sc | Gnome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2D4aWTsXM | GUADEC Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9e0cyrryRY | | Conflict of Interest: | | * Chris Rogers is a member of this committee and will not be able to | vote on this measure as a matter of conflict of interest. | | Ballot: | | 1. Spend $2,500 on a release video for Inkscape 1.2 | 2. Do not spend any money on a release video | 3. Something else... | | Thanks everyone. | | Best Regards, Martin Owens | _______________________________________________ | Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- | inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org | To unsubscribe send an email to | inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org | _______________________________________________ Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Thanks Everyone for voting,
I left this one an extra week because of the holidays, but it looks like we have all the votes we're going to get.
I'm voting a. although it doesn't change anything in the result.
Results:
Chris - Abstention b/c of the Conflict of interest Josh - 3. Suggests a budget of 1 to 1.5k for a video Ted - 3. Find out what the vote is for Tav - 1. Martin - 1. Marc - No vote.
The result is insufficient, so we vote not to spend our budget on a release video this year.
---------------------
I do want to make a note here about the different considerations with regards to paying people.
We have a set of people who are contractors; that means they are free to provide to this project their paid work time, if the project will take it. But there is a sense of snobbery from our fully employed members of this project, who don't seem to see why people's business hours shouldn't be given away for nothing. It's disrespectful and you absolutely need to stop assuming that this is a hobby for everyone.
This project needs more than hobby time. There are too many users who depend on Inkscape for their jobs. It's time we stopped being so careless with their work tools, especially when they have gifted us their money so we can do paid work for them.
Regards, Martin Owens
On Tue, 2021-12-14 at 14:57 -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
Dear Leadership Committee,
You attention is required to vote on funding for the Inkscape 1.2 release video for 2022. As previously mentioned in our budget meeting, we have in our project a well respected video creator who makes videos for Gnome, the SFC and has made two previous Inkscape release videos and who needs funding for their work in the coming year.
Background:
We as a project benefit from having a good looking and timely release video and this funding will enable our contributor, Chris Rogers, to spend the needed time without overwork.
Videos for reference: 1.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlS0zKXsdvo 1.0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6UHXkND4Sc Gnome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2D4aWTsXM GUADEC Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9e0cyrryRY
Conflict of Interest:
- Chris Rogers is a member of this committee and will not be able to
vote on this measure as a matter of conflict of interest.
Ballot:
- Spend $2,500 on a release video for Inkscape 1.2
- Do not spend any money on a release video
- Something else...
Thanks everyone.
Best Regards, Martin Owens _______________________________________________ Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
On Jan 2 2022, at 11:21 pm, Martin Owens doctormo@geek-2.com wrote:
But there is a sense of snobbery from our fully employed members of this project
I don't appreciate being insulted.
they have gifted us their money so we can do paid work for them.
You're implying an intent that was not specified. No one put on their donation "for paid work". Ted
On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 9:21 PM Martin Owens doctormo@geek-2.com wrote:
We have a set of people who are contractors; that means they are free to provide to this project their paid work time, if the project will take it.
Why would we not take contributions if everything is kosher? Our bar to contribute is pretty low, so if they have commit access, who is going to interfere? Their outside arrangements with 3rd parties aren't really the project's business if everything is above board. Also, why not mention volunteers? Why were they left out?
But there is a sense of snobbery from our fully employed members of this project, who don't seem to see why people's business hours shouldn't be given away for nothing. It's disrespectful and you absolutely need to stop assuming that this is a hobby for everyone.
For anyone less familiar with the project that might read this and the phrasing that could be misinterpreted, we don't have "fully employed members of this project" in relation to the project, apparently it's a dig at people with outside full time jobs that volunteer their time to the project. Also what's with the plurality of members in that group? Care to share some names? It seems pretty evident that Ted would likely be one of them (and he clearly thought so too), so being more explicit would be helpful to understand what you're saying and about who. I'd say that your approach here and vagueness was pretty disrespectful in itself.
This project needs more than hobby time. There are too many users who depend on Inkscape for their jobs. It's time we stopped being so careless with their work tools, especially when they have gifted us their money so we can do paid work for them.
I won't disagree that the project needs some paid work. It probably needs quite a bit no doubt depending on a person's use case and needs. I'd argue that if people are depending on Inkscape for their jobs, it's probably meeting their needs relatively well already (undoubtedly not perfectly, but probably sufficiently). I'm not saying it can't be made better for them, but you start asking those users and I'm pretty sure that the wide variety of needs out there make it incredibly difficult to prioritize whose needs we should be tackling first.
As for people donating their money, most donations over the years (when I've seen a note/memo) are generally communicating thanks or appreciation, not asking for us to add or improve feature X. Why would you assume such a thing? This is kind of sounding familiar to prosperity gospel preacher logic (it makes it seem like your motivations seem less about the project and the community needs and more about your wants/desires).
All of that aside, this was a weird thread to have a discussion about this topic. Given your framing, how does a release video improve the actual tool itself for our users? Whose needs does it address? What are the performance gains, bugs fixed, or tangible user-facing improvements to the tool? This vote was about funding for a video, to which nobody actually voted against it. Since this was not something which improves the software/tool itself and the post-vote discussion seems a bit emotionally charged for what the vote was as well as the results. If the vote had been for software improvements that are out of scope for volunteer time/complexity and funding for that, why are you assuming how people would vote in THAT situation anyway when there weren't any outright "No" (number 2) votes here?
Cheers, Josh
But there is a sense of snobbery from our fully employed members of this project, who don't seem to see why people's business hours shouldn't be given away for nothing. It's disrespectful and you absolutely need to stop assuming that this is a hobby for everyone.
As moderator for the project, I'd like to ask that we please keep from insulting comments like the above. It's also not beneficial to assume people's motives or intent. I believe no one has said "let's not fund this, it should be unpaid".
Josh effectively said "Lets do a cheaper one, since it's not a .0 release."
Ted effectively said "Let's do it after there's a budget for it".
I agree with Ted's approach. I'll be talking with the vectors, so later everyone can vote on whether to fund approve an anual budget for Vectors outreach activities.
The PLC should be rubber stamping pre-planned budgets, not trying to figure out the value of a release video based on incomplete release notes, and vague somewhat shakey sounding praise for previous videos and no other information.
Let's leave it here for now.
Thanks everyone for the input and votes over the holidays.
-C
This project needs more than hobby time. There are too many users who depend on Inkscape for their jobs. It's time we stopped being so careless with their work tools, especially when they have gifted us their money so we can do paid work for them.
Regards, Martin Owens
On Tue, 2021-12-14 at 14:57 -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
Dear Leadership Committee,
You attention is required to vote on funding for the Inkscape 1.2 release video for 2022. As previously mentioned in our budget meeting, we have in our project a well respected video creator who makes videos for Gnome, the SFC and has made two previous Inkscape release videos and who needs funding for their work in the coming year.
Background:
We as a project benefit from having a good looking and timely release video and this funding will enable our contributor, Chris Rogers, to spend the needed time without overwork.
Videos for reference: 1.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlS0zKXsdvo 1.0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6UHXkND4Sc Gnome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2D4aWTsXM GUADEC Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9e0cyrryRY
Conflict of Interest:
- Chris Rogers is a member of this committee and will not be able to
vote on this measure as a matter of conflict of interest.
Ballot:
- Spend $2,500 on a release video for Inkscape 1.2
- Do not spend any money on a release video
- Something else...
Thanks everyone.
Best Regards, Martin Owens _______________________________________________ Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
On Tue, 2022-01-04 at 08:33 +0100, C R wrote:
As moderator for the project, I'd like to ask that we please keep from insulting comments like the above.
Sorry Chris.
I get frustrated by the choice of wording used, and I shouldn't immediately suspect people are being deliberately obstructionist just because they use certain kinds of language.
Your vector's team plan has my full support.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
participants (5)
-
C R -
Josh Andler -
Martin Owens -
tavmjong＠free.fr -
Ted Gould