Hi All,

First thanks to Sebastian, Brynn and others for their comments, suggestions and kind words. I will try to summarize the thought process behind the redesign.

The main thought process behind the new interface design for inkscape was to make it more organized and user-friendly than just a theme change. For example, right now the "Text and Font panel" (Ctrl+Shift+T) has three different tabs which is unnecessary in my opinion, if you look at the new text panel it covers almost all of the functionalities in all the three panels put together. There are a few functionalities in the panel which I don't understand, so I thought I can get an understanding from you guys when we actually implement it in development. As I have mentioned in my original mail, the missing functionalities can still be accommodated gracefully without sacrificing the visual appeal.

I had a conversation in the IRC channel with a inkscape user whether we should adapt the new icons and theme right away. Any product development change takes time and is done in phases, so we can look at re-organizing the panels with the existing iconography in phase one but some controls might have to be changed. We can take the same Text Panel as an example, the font chooser can be a "dropdown" instead of a "scrolling list" as the user will be able to see a consistent number of fonts whether a single panel is docked or multiple panels are docked. Right now if I have more than one panel docked, I'm not able to see more than five fonts and the scrolling becomes more painful. Another example is whenever I choose a font it doesn't reflect on the selected text item, I have to press "apply" button every time which is not very intuitive for the end-user, at least I should be able to apply when I double click on the font name in the current control, if it is dropdown it should apply the chosen font on the selected text.

These are my observations as a windows Inkscape user and just one example of the entire thought process. Having said all this I'm not sure of the limitations in terms of technology/framework. But I'm sure we can find elegant controls/solutions with GTK itself as I can already see those controls in the current design itself, but for different actions/functions. For example, instead of putting the "superscript", "subscript" in the variants tab and under an accordion we can use a similar control as the "left","right","center" alignment icons and put them under font tab, which is easier for the users to access than being hidden in another tab and under an accordion. :)

Once we are done with the re-organization of the tools and panels, we can look at switching the theme which I assume is a matter of changing the icon images or something similar.

Like Sebastian has mentioned UX is more than just a skin change and I think Inkscape can benefit from a UX overhaul.

Best Amarneethi

On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz < jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:

Maybe Im on the bad way but I love all GTK widgets changed to HTML widgets, so changin style is more easy and independent to programing layer.

Is this posible or is a cracy thing? Cheers, Jabier.

El sáb, 05-03-2016 a las 04:05 -0700, Brynn escribió:

...

I'll be glad to make some comments, simply as an Inkscape user. I'm not a developer.

I see that you must have put a lot of thought and long hours of work into this. And congratulation for that!

How did you decide what changes to make? Is it all just your own personal preference?

I think it would be very interesting, and very helpful, if someone (or a team) who wanted to make a new interface, would do some polling, to find out what changes are wanted/needed by the greater community as a whole. In my opinion, that's the kind of change in the interface which has the best chance of being adopted and used by the project. Although personally, for the most part, I'm happy with the current interface.

Or is this only for the Linux system, where it's my understanding it's easier to change the interface theme? If you intend this to be an overall interface change, for all systems, I could make some comments for you. But if this is just for Linux and/or Mac, I shouldn't really make any comments, since I'm a Windows user.

All best, brynn

---

From: Amarneethi R Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:00 PM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape

Hi Guys,

I have been working on a new user-interface for Inkscape, you can find the design in the link below. I'm a fan of open source softwares and been using them for over 5 years now and wanted to give back to the open source community. Let me know what you guys think. :)

http://artntechasone.com/forInkscapeTeam.html

Thanks Amarneethi

---

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Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

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Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

if this is just for Linux and/or Mac, I shouldn't really make any comments, since I'm a Windows user.

All best, brynn

Since it sounds like this is an overall ui design, I'll make some more comments.

1 - I think these are some big changes which cannot happen all at once. Maybe if they are implemented in stages, like each time there's a new version release, some more changes are added, it might work.

2 - I would like to see this as an option, and not forced on users. Personally I don't like white on black (or dark gray) themes. And I have not seen anywhere (screenshots from other users, since I only use Windows at present) any 2-tone ui or icon sets that I like. As I mentioned before, I have very few complaints with the current interface. Although....

This is a big "although". I would really, really, really like to see some way for Inkscape to have interchangeable themes, or sometimes I've seen called "skins", which can be changed easily from Inks Prefs; and in such a way that anyone could create their own personal theme, or create themes that they can share with the community.

Since I don't like the 2-tone ui in the first place, I'm not sure if it would be fair for me to make further comments.... Well, at least not about the icons' appearance, but I could make some comments that don't relate to the 2-tone nature of the interface. ____________

1 - Re your image, toolbox_names.jpg

I would not be in favor of the Gradient tool being hidden under the Paint tool. Imo, the Paint Bucket tool is more of a raster feature that's made to work for Inkscape. So it should not hide the Gradient tool. I use the Gradient tool by faaarr more often than PB. Actually it doesn't make sense to me to have them grouped at all, even if PB was hidden under Gradient tool.

Let's see, we currently have 20 tools, that you've somehow condensed down to 9. I'm not sure exactly which tools you consider a shape tool. (Rect, Ell, Star, Spiral, and maybe 3D Box?) So 9 plus 4 = 13. And then 1 more for hidden Gradient is 14.

Missing are Selection, Connector, Dropper, Eraser, Measure, and Zoom

I guess maybe you're having Zoom controlled from the bottom of the window? But where are the other 5 tools?

How do you decide which dialogs/panels will appear in the toolbox? What about Filters Editor? (I keep forgetting to make wishlist for a button for Filters Editor, to go in command bar with F/S, Text, Layers, etc.) And there are others that might work there as well.

The Layers icon looks too much like a New Document, New File, or maybe even a Pages icon. I haven't found your version of the New File icon yet, to be able to compare.

Align dialog icon needs a 3rd bar, to be more clear what it is. What happened to Distribute?

The Node tool icon needs to have at least 1 node in it.

The Transform Panel icon doesn't give me any indication what it's for. Without the text, I'd be confused. It could be the Node tool or a Fill tool, or even a shape tool.

Also I don't get the Paint tool icon, whatever it is. Imo, the bucket is a better symbol.

What happened to the Selection tool?

2 - Re your image, panels.png

For Text panel, why is there a color option? Can't we just use the color palette (or panel) to change text color?

For Transform panel, where do you choose units?

For Align panel, what happened to Distribute options? Are they in a separate panel?

For Layers panel, the little eye that opens and closes is classic. I suspect there would be constant complaints about the diamond shape for show/hide. Also, I'm not sure if you're showing all locked or all unlocked layers. (The current lock/unlock icons are also classic.)

I could take or leave having the palettes in a panel. It's one of those "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" things, imo. What are those 2 icons in top-right corner -- a dashed line and a solid line. Is that how you choose a different palette?

3 - Re inkscapeUI_v07.jpg

Whoa!! What happened to the status bar??!

I see that you put the Style Indicator section of the status bar in the....I'm guessing that's the Selection tool control bar. (Although I still haven't found the Selection tool icon yet.) What happens if you're using a different tool? Is the Style Indicator permantently in the control bar?

What happened to the Layer Indicator? I can see where maybe it's not needed, especially if the Layers dialog is open. But it's very convenient if Layers dialog is not open.

But MUCH more importantly, where's the Notification Area? In my opinion, the notification area is the single most important part of the interface!!

I see a whole LOT of blank space between the white rectangle and the toolbox on the left and dialog buttons on the right. From an image further down the page, it looks like the space on the right is where the dialogs open. But is that just wasted space on the left? And there's blank space above and below the white rectangle too. Where does the canvas start? Are there features that will use this space? Why not fill it up with more canvas space? ____________

Ok, those are all my comments :-)

All best, brynn

___________________________________ From: Amarneethi R Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 4:57 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape

Hi All,

First thanks to Sebastian, Brynn and others for their comments, suggestions and kind words. I will try to summarize the thought process behind the redesign.

The main thought process behind the new interface design for inkscape was to make it more organized and user-friendly than just a theme change. For example, right now the "Text and Font panel" (Ctrl+Shift+T) has three different tabs which is unnecessary in my opinion, if you look at the new text panel it covers almost all of the functionalities in all the three panels put together. There are a few functionalities in the panel which I don't understand, so I thought I can get an understanding from you guys when we actually implement it in development. As I have mentioned in my original mail, the missing functionalities can still be accommodated gracefully without sacrificing the visual appeal.

I had a conversation in the IRC channel with a inkscape user whether we should adapt the new icons and theme right away. Any product development change takes time and is done in phases, so we can look at re-organizing the panels with the existing iconography in phase one but some controls might have to be changed. We can take the same Text Panel as an example, the font chooser can be a "dropdown" instead of a "scrolling list" as the user will be able to see a consistent number of fonts whether a single panel is docked or multiple panels are docked. Right now if I have more than one panel docked, I'm not able to see more than five fonts and the scrolling becomes more painful. Another example is whenever I choose a font it doesn't reflect on the selected text item, I have to press "apply" button every time which is not very intuitive for the end-user, at least I should be able to apply when I double click on the font name in the current control, if it is dropdown it should apply the chosen font on the selected text.

These are my observations as a windows Inkscape user and just one example of the entire thought process. Having said all this I'm not sure of the limitations in terms of technology/framework. But I'm sure we can find elegant controls/solutions with GTK itself as I can already see those controls in the current design itself, but for different actions/functions. For example, instead of putting the "superscript", "subscript" in the variants tab and under an accordion we can use a similar control as the "left","right","center" alignment icons and put them under font tab, which is easier for the users to access than being hidden in another tab and under an accordion. :)

Once we are done with the re-organization of the tools and panels, we can look at switching the theme which I assume is a matter of changing the icon images or something similar.

Like Sebastian has mentioned UX is more than just a skin change and I think Inkscape can benefit from a UX overhaul.

Best Amarneethi

On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:

Maybe Im on the bad way but I love all GTK widgets changed to HTML widgets, so changin style is more easy and independent to programing layer.

Is this posible or is a cracy thing? Cheers, Jabier.

El sáb, 05-03-2016 a las 04:05 -0700, Brynn escribió:

I'll be glad to make some comments, simply as an Inkscape user. I'm not a developer.

I see that you must have put a lot of thought and long hours of work into this. And congratulation for that!

How did you decide what changes to make? Is it all just your own personal preference?

I think it would be very interesting, and very helpful, if someone (or a team) who wanted to make a new interface, would do some polling, to find out what changes are wanted/needed by the greater community as a whole. In my opinion, that's the kind of change in the interface which has the best chance of being adopted and used by the project. Although personally, for the most part, I'm happy with the current interface.

Or is this only for the Linux system, where it's my understanding it's easier to change the interface theme? If you intend this to be an overall interface change, for all systems, I could make some comments for you. But if this is just for Linux and/or Mac, I shouldn't really make any comments, since I'm a Windows user.

All best, brynn

---

From: Amarneethi R Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:00 PM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape

Hi Guys,

I have been working on a new user-interface for Inkscape, you can find the design in the link below. I'm a fan of open source softwares and been using them for over 5 years now and wanted to give back to the open source community. Let me know what you guys think. :)

http://artntechasone.com/forInkscapeTeam.html

Thanks Amarneethi

---

---

---

Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

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Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

Hi Amarneethi,

Also I don't know if you had a chance to read my emails, I have been constantly mentioning that 85-90% of the UI/functions are there and the rest "ARE MISSING" and I have also mentioned that it can be accommodated gracefully in the same UI.

I must not have seen all your messages, because I didn't see that.

I don't know how it works and I don't know if there is someone who has to approve the features or a change like this into Inkscape.

I would like some help on how to take this further from here.

I'm the wrong person to ask about that. As I mentioned, I'm only an Inkscape user. I guess you could try and do some research, to find out how the current interface and icons were chosen. I know I've been using Inkscape since version 0.44, and the icons have never changed. So that's one reason this may not be an easy change to be implemented. (Also might be hard to research so long ago.)

Another reason (as I see it, being a simple user who has only observed the development community for a year or so) you are proposing 2, or possibly 3 different and some are major things: 1) You want to change ALL the icons. 2) You want to change.... well now, since you said your interface mockup is missing some things -- I'm not sure how much is missing and how much is a change. So possibly you want to change some of the dialogs, and possibly you want to change how some things are displayed in the window (the zoom and mouse position centered at the bottom) 3) And the 2-tone color theme is a major change for many users.

One of the first things I would do is mockup the entire interface. If the developers are to seriously consider it, they will need to see the whole proposal. Right?

Or maybe someone who actually knows the answer, about how to have your mockup seriously considered, will answer.

Personally, I suspect it's highly unlikely the project would just up and change the interface, for no apparent reason. If they do, I hope they make it optional, since I'm not a big fan of white on black.

Good luck! From: Amarneethi R Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 8:54 PM To: Brynn Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape

That's awesome Brynn, such detailed comments, we can use your knowledge of Inkscape during the process. Like you said, it's a stage to stage implementation and we can address the issues you had mentioned in the stages when we are actually implementing that part of the new design.

Also I don't know if you had a chance to read my emails, I have been constantly mentioning that 85-90% of the UI/functions are there and the rest "ARE MISSING" and I have also mentioned that it can be accommodated gracefully in the same UI.

I don't know how it works and I don't know if there is someone who has to approve the features or a change like this into Inkscape.

I would like some help on how to take this further from here.

Cheers

Amarneethi

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:

if this is just for Linux and/or Mac, I shouldn't really make any comments, since I'm a Windows user.

All best, brynn

Since it sounds like this is an overall ui design, I'll make some more comments.

1 - I think these are some big changes which cannot happen all at once. Maybe if they are implemented in stages, like each time there's a new version release, some more changes are added, it might work.

2 - I would like to see this as an option, and not forced on users. Personally I don't like white on black (or dark gray) themes. And I have not seen anywhere (screenshots from other users, since I only use Windows at present) any 2-tone ui or icon sets that I like. As I mentioned before, I have very few complaints with the current interface. Although....

This is a big "although". I would really, really, really like to see some way for Inkscape to have interchangeable themes, or sometimes I've seen called "skins", which can be changed easily from Inks Prefs; and in such a way that anyone could create their own personal theme, or create themes that they can share with the community.

Since I don't like the 2-tone ui in the first place, I'm not sure if it would be fair for me to make further comments.... Well, at least not about the icons' appearance, but I could make some comments that don't relate to the 2-tone nature of the interface. ____________

1 - Re your image, toolbox_names.jpg

I would not be in favor of the Gradient tool being hidden under the Paint tool. Imo, the Paint Bucket tool is more of a raster feature that's made to work for Inkscape. So it should not hide the Gradient tool. I use the Gradient tool by faaarr more often than PB. Actually it doesn't make sense to me to have them grouped at all, even if PB was hidden under Gradient tool.

Let's see, we currently have 20 tools, that you've somehow condensed down to 9. I'm not sure exactly which tools you consider a shape tool. (Rect, Ell, Star, Spiral, and maybe 3D Box?) So 9 plus 4 = 13. And then 1 more for hidden Gradient is 14.

Missing are Selection, Connector, Dropper, Eraser, Measure, and Zoom

I guess maybe you're having Zoom controlled from the bottom of the window? But where are the other 5 tools?

How do you decide which dialogs/panels will appear in the toolbox? What about Filters Editor? (I keep forgetting to make wishlist for a button for Filters Editor, to go in command bar with F/S, Text, Layers, etc.) And there are others that might work there as well.

The Layers icon looks too much like a New Document, New File, or maybe even a Pages icon. I haven't found your version of the New File icon yet, to be able to compare.

Align dialog icon needs a 3rd bar, to be more clear what it is. What happened to Distribute?

The Node tool icon needs to have at least 1 node in it.

The Transform Panel icon doesn't give me any indication what it's for. Without the text, I'd be confused. It could be the Node tool or a Fill tool, or even a shape tool.

Also I don't get the Paint tool icon, whatever it is. Imo, the bucket is a better symbol.

What happened to the Selection tool?

2 - Re your image, panels.png

For Text panel, why is there a color option? Can't we just use the color palette (or panel) to change text color?

For Transform panel, where do you choose units?

For Align panel, what happened to Distribute options? Are they in a separate panel?

For Layers panel, the little eye that opens and closes is classic. I suspect there would be constant complaints about the diamond shape for show/hide. Also, I'm not sure if you're showing all locked or all unlocked layers. (The current lock/unlock icons are also classic.)

I could take or leave having the palettes in a panel. It's one of those "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" things, imo. What are those 2 icons in top-right corner -- a dashed line and a solid line. Is that how you choose a different palette?

3 - Re inkscapeUI_v07.jpg

Whoa!! What happened to the status bar??!

I see that you put the Style Indicator section of the status bar in the....I'm guessing that's the Selection tool control bar. (Although I still haven't found the Selection tool icon yet.) What happens if you're using a different tool? Is the Style Indicator permantently in the control bar?

What happened to the Layer Indicator? I can see where maybe it's not needed, especially if the Layers dialog is open. But it's very convenient if Layers dialog is not open.

But MUCH more importantly, where's the Notification Area? In my opinion, the notification area is the single most important part of the interface!!

I see a whole LOT of blank space between the white rectangle and the toolbox on the left and dialog buttons on the right. From an image further down the page, it looks like the space on the right is where the dialogs open. But is that just wasted space on the left? And there's blank space above and below the white rectangle too. Where does the canvas start? Are there features that will use this space? Why not fill it up with more canvas space? ____________

Ok, those are all my comments :-)

All best, brynn

___________________________________ From: Amarneethi R Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 4:57 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape

Hi All,

First thanks to Sebastian, Brynn and others for their comments, suggestions and kind words. I will try to summarize the thought process behind the redesign.

The main thought process behind the new interface design for inkscape was to make it more organized and user-friendly than just a theme change. For example, right now the "Text and Font panel" (Ctrl+Shift+T) has three different tabs which is unnecessary in my opinion, if you look at the new text panel it covers almost all of the functionalities in all the three panels put together. There are a few functionalities in the panel which I don't understand, so I thought I can get an understanding from you guys when we actually implement it in development. As I have mentioned in my original mail, the missing functionalities can still be accommodated gracefully without sacrificing the visual appeal.

I had a conversation in the IRC channel with a inkscape user whether we should adapt the new icons and theme right away. Any product development change takes time and is done in phases, so we can look at re-organizing the panels with the existing iconography in phase one but some controls might have to be changed. We can take the same Text Panel as an example, the font chooser can be a "dropdown" instead of a "scrolling list" as the user will be able to see a consistent number of fonts whether a single panel is docked or multiple panels are docked. Right now if I have more than one panel docked, I'm not able to see more than five fonts and the scrolling becomes more painful. Another example is whenever I choose a font it doesn't reflect on the selected text item, I have to press "apply" button every time which is not very intuitive for the end-user, at least I should be able to apply when I double click on the font name in the current control, if it is dropdown it should apply the chosen font on the selected text.

These are my observations as a windows Inkscape user and just one example of the entire thought process. Having said all this I'm not sure of the limitations in terms of technology/framework. But I'm sure we can find elegant controls/solutions with GTK itself as I can already see those controls in the current design itself, but for different actions/functions. For example, instead of putting the "superscript", "subscript" in the variants tab and under an accordion we can use a similar control as the "left","right","center" alignment icons and put them under font tab, which is easier for the users to access than being hidden in another tab and under an accordion. :)

Once we are done with the re-organization of the tools and panels, we can look at switching the theme which I assume is a matter of changing the icon images or something similar.

Like Sebastian has mentioned UX is more than just a skin change and I think Inkscape can benefit from a UX overhaul.

Best Amarneethi

On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:

Maybe Im on the bad way but I love all GTK widgets changed to HTML widgets, so changin style is more easy and independent to programing layer.

Is this posible or is a cracy thing? Cheers, Jabier.

El sáb, 05-03-2016 a las 04:05 -0700, Brynn escribió:

I'll be glad to make some comments, simply as an Inkscape user. I'm not a developer.

I see that you must have put a lot of thought and long hours of work into this. And congratulation for that!

How did you decide what changes to make? Is it all just your own personal preference?

I think it would be very interesting, and very helpful, if someone (or a team) who wanted to make a new interface, would do some polling, to find out what changes are wanted/needed by the greater community as a whole. In my opinion, that's the kind of change in the interface which has the best chance of being adopted and used by the project. Although personally, for the most part, I'm happy with the current interface.

Or is this only for the Linux system, where it's my understanding it's easier to change the interface theme? If you intend this to be an overall interface change, for all systems, I could make some comments for you. But if this is just for Linux and/or Mac, I shouldn't really make any comments, since I'm a Windows user.

All best, brynn

____________________________________ From: Amarneethi R Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:00 PM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape

Hi Guys,

I have been working on a new user-interface for Inkscape, you can find the design in the link below. I'm a fan of open source softwares and been using them for over 5 years now and wanted to give back to the open source community. Let me know what you guys think. :)

http://artntechasone.com/forInkscapeTeam.html

Thanks Amarneethi

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----------- _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

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Best Regards Amarneethi Never care for things they say! Never care for games they play!! Life is ours we live it our way... Cos nothing else matters..!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

--

Best Regards Amarneethi Never care for things they say! Never care for games they play!! Life is ours we live it our way... Cos nothing else matters..!

I guess you have no experience in GTK UX design but you can recommend whath you want.

El dom, 06-03-2016 a las 14:27 +0530, Amarneethi R escribió:

I guess you have no experience with UI design or User Experience. BTW I was not just addressing you, I was addressing the whole developer list and the change is not for no apparent reason. Again you can read the mail thread as I have explained the thought process and the reason behind the redesign.

Almost all the design products(not just adobe products) use a dark UI and it's not just a coincidence. There are benefits to a dark UI from saving energy to being neutral to the colors that you use on a design and so on. You can google and find out.

I highly recommend you to take some time and pay attention and make comments or refrain from making comments if you dunno what you are talking about.

Good luck.

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 1:37 PM, Brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:

...

Hi Amarneethi,

Also I don't know if you had a chance to read my emails, I have been constantly mentioning that 85-90% of the UI/functions are there and the rest "ARE MISSING" and I have also mentioned that it can be accommodated gracefully in the same UI.

I must not have seen all your messages, because I didn't see that.

I don't know how it works and I don't know if there is someone who has to approve the features or a change like this into Inkscape. I would like some help on how to take this further from here.

I'm the wrong person to ask about that.  As I mentioned, I'm only an Inkscape user.  I guess you could try and do some research, to find out how the current interface and icons were chosen.  I know I've been using Inkscape since version 0.44, and the icons have never changed.  So that's one reason this may not be an easy change to be implemented.  (Also might be hard to research so long ago.)

Another reason (as I see it, being a simple user who has only observed the development community for a year or so) you are proposing 2, or possibly 3 different and some are major things:  1) You want to change ALL the icons. 2) You want to change.... well now, since you said your interface mockup is missing some things -- I'm not sure how much is missing and how much is a change.  So possibly you want to change some of the dialogs, and possibly you want to change how some things are displayed in the window (the zoom and mouse position centered at the bottom)  3)  And the 2-tone color theme is a major change for many users.

One of the first things I would do is mockup the entire interface.  If the developers are to seriously consider it, they will need to see the whole proposal.  Right?

Or maybe someone who actually knows the answer, about how to have your mockup seriously considered, will answer.

Personally, I suspect it's highly unlikely the project would just up and change the interface, for no apparent reason.  If they do, I hope they make it optional, since I'm not a big fan of white on black.

Good luck!

*From:* Amarneethi R <amarneethi@...400...> *Sent:* Saturday, March 05, 2016 8:54 PM *To:* Brynn <brynn@...3133...> *Cc:* inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net *Subject:* Re: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape

That's awesome Brynn, such detailed comments, we can use your knowledge of Inkscape during the process. Like you said, it's a stage to stage implementation and we can address the issues you had mentioned in the stages when we are actually implementing that part of the new design.

Also I don't know if you had a chance to read my emails, I have been constantly mentioning that 85-90% of the UI/functions are there and the rest "ARE MISSING" and I have also mentioned that it can be accommodated gracefully in the same UI.

I don't know how it works and I don't know if there is someone who has to approve the features or a change like this into Inkscape. I would like some help on how to take this further from here.

Cheers Amarneethi

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:

...

if this is just for Linux and/or Mac, I shouldn't really make any

...

comments, since I'm a Windows user.

All best, brynn

Since it sounds like this is an overall ui design, I'll make some more comments.

1 - I think these are some big changes which cannot happen all at once. Maybe if they are implemented in stages, like each time there's a new version release, some more changes are added, it might work.

2 - I would like to see this as an option, and not forced on users. Personally I don't like white on black (or dark gray) themes.  And I have not seen anywhere (screenshots from other users, since I only use Windows at present) any 2-tone ui or icon sets that I like.  As I mentioned before, I have very few complaints with the current interface.   Although....

This is a big "although".  I would really, really, really like to see some way for Inkscape to have interchangeable themes, or sometimes I've seen called "skins", which can be changed easily from Inks Prefs; and in such a way that anyone could create their own personal theme, or create themes that they can share with the community.

Since I don't like the 2-tone ui in the first place, I'm not sure if it would be fair for me to make further comments....  Well, at least not about the icons' appearance, but I could make some comments that don't relate to the 2-tone nature of the interface. ____________

1 - Re your image, toolbox_names.jpg

I would not be in favor of the Gradient tool being hidden under the Paint tool.  Imo, the Paint Bucket tool is more of a raster feature that's made to work for Inkscape.  So it should not hide the Gradient tool.  I use the Gradient tool by faaarr more often than PB.  Actually it doesn't make sense to me to have them grouped at all, even if PB was hidden under Gradient tool.

Let's see, we currently have 20 tools, that you've somehow condensed down to 9.  I'm not sure exactly which tools you consider a shape tool.  (Rect, Ell, Star, Spiral, and maybe 3D Box?)  So 9 plus 4 = 13.  And then 1 more for hidden Gradient is 14.

Missing are Selection, Connector, Dropper, Eraser, Measure, and Zoom

I guess maybe you're having Zoom controlled from the bottom of the window? But where are the other 5 tools?

How do you decide which dialogs/panels will appear in the toolbox?  What about Filters Editor?  (I keep forgetting to make wishlist for a button for Filters Editor, to go in command bar with F/S, Text, Layers, etc.)  And there are others that might work there as well.

The Layers icon looks too much like a New Document, New File, or maybe even a Pages icon.  I haven't found your version of the New File icon yet, to be able to compare.

Align dialog icon needs a 3rd bar, to be more clear what it is.  What happened to Distribute?

The Node tool icon needs to have at least 1 node in it.

The Transform Panel icon doesn't give me any indication what it's for. Without the text, I'd be confused.  It could be the Node tool or a Fill tool, or even a shape tool.

Also I don't get the Paint tool icon, whatever it is.  Imo, the bucket is a better symbol.

What happened to the Selection tool?

2 - Re your image, panels.png

For Text panel, why is there a color option?  Can't we just use the color palette (or panel) to change text color?

For Transform panel, where do you choose units?

For Align panel, what happened to Distribute options?  Are they in a separate panel?

For Layers panel, the little eye that opens and closes is classic.  I suspect there would be constant complaints about the diamond shape for show/hide.  Also, I'm not sure if you're showing all locked or all unlocked layers.  (The current lock/unlock icons are also classic.)

I could take or leave having the palettes in a panel.  It's one of those "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" things, imo.  What are those 2 icons in top-right corner -- a dashed line and a solid line.  Is that how you choose a different palette?

3 - Re inkscapeUI_v07.jpg

Whoa!!  What happened to the status bar??!

I see that you put the Style Indicator section of the status bar in the....I'm guessing that's the Selection tool control bar. (Although I still haven't found the Selection tool icon yet.)  What happens if you're using a different tool?  Is the Style Indicator permantently in the control bar?

What happened to the Layer Indicator?  I can see where maybe it's not needed, especially if the Layers dialog is open.  But it's very convenient if Layers dialog is not open.

But MUCH more importantly, where's the Notification Area?  In my opinion, the notification area is the single most important part of the interface!!

I see a whole LOT of blank space between the white rectangle and the toolbox on the left and dialog buttons on the right.  From an image further down the page, it looks like the space on the right is where the dialogs open.  But is that just wasted space on the left?   And there's blank space above and below the white rectangle too.  Where does the canvas start?  Are there features that will use this space?  Why not fill it up with more canvas space? ____________

Ok, those are all my comments :-)

All best, brynn

---

From: Amarneethi R Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 4:57 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape

Hi All,

First thanks to Sebastian, Brynn and others for their comments, suggestions and kind words. I will try to summarize the thought process behind the redesign.

The main thought process behind the new interface design for inkscape was to make it more organized and user-friendly than just a theme change. For example, right now the "Text and Font panel" (Ctrl+Shift+T) has three different tabs which is unnecessary in my opinion, if you look at the new text panel it covers almost all of the functionalities in all the three panels put together. There are a few functionalities in the panel which I don't understand, so I thought I can get an understanding from you guys when we actually implement it in development. As I have mentioned in my original mail, the missing functionalities can still be accommodated gracefully without sacrificing the visual appeal.

I had a conversation in the IRC channel with a inkscape user whether we should adapt the new icons and theme right away. Any product development change takes time and is done in phases, so we can look at re- organizing the panels with the existing iconography in phase one but some controls might have to be changed. We can take the same Text Panel as an example, the font chooser can be a "dropdown" instead of a "scrolling list" as the user will be able to see a consistent number of fonts whether a single panel is docked or multiple panels are docked. Right now if I have more than one panel docked, I'm not able to see more than five fonts and the scrolling becomes more painful.  Another example is whenever I choose a font it doesn't reflect on the selected text item, I have to press "apply" button every time which is not very intuitive for the end-user, at least I should be able to apply when I double click on the font name in the current control, if it is dropdown it should apply the chosen font on the selected text.

These are my observations as a windows Inkscape user and just one example of the entire thought process. Having said all this I'm not sure of the limitations in terms of technology/framework. But I'm sure we can find elegant controls/solutions with GTK itself as I can already see those controls in the current design itself, but for different actions/functions. For example, instead of putting the "superscript", "subscript" in the variants tab and under an accordion we can use a similar control as the "left","right","center" alignment icons and put them under font tab, which is easier for the users to access than being hidden in another tab and under an accordion. :)

Once we are done with the re-organization of the tools and panels, we can look at switching the theme which I assume is a matter of changing the icon images or something similar.

Like Sebastian has mentioned UX is more than just a skin change and I think Inkscape can benefit from a UX overhaul.

Best Amarneethi

On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz < jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:

Maybe Im on the bad way but I love all GTK widgets changed to HTML widgets, so changin style is more easy and independent to programing layer.

Is this posible or is a cracy thing? Cheers, Jabier.

El sáb, 05-03-2016 a las 04:05 -0700, Brynn escribió:

...

I'll be glad to make some comments, simply as an Inkscape user.  I'm not a developer.

I see that you must have put a lot of thought and long hours of work into this.  And congratulation for that!

How did you decide what changes to make?  Is it all just your own personal preference?

I think it would be very interesting, and very helpful, if someone (or a team) who wanted to make a new interface, would do some polling, to find out what changes are wanted/needed by the greater community as a whole.  In my opinion, that's the kind of change in the interface which has the best chance of being adopted and used by the project.  Although personally, for the most part, I'm happy with the current interface.

Or is this only for the Linux system, where it's my understanding it's easier to change the interface theme?  If you intend this to be an overall interface change, for all systems, I could make some comments for you.  But if this is just for Linux and/or Mac, I shouldn't really make any comments, since I'm a Windows user.

All best, brynn

---

From: Amarneethi R Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:00 PM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape

Hi Guys,

I have been working on a new user-interface for Inkscape, you can find the design in the link below. I'm a fan of open source softwares and been using them for over 5 years now and wanted to give back to the open source community. Let me know what you guys think. :)

http://artntechasone.com/forInkscapeTeam.html

Thanks Amarneethi

---

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Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

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...

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Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

--

Best Regards Amarneethi Never care for things they say! Never care for games they play!! Life is ours we live it our way... Cos nothing else matters..!

---

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Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

-- Best Regards *Amarneethi* Never care for things they say! Never care for games they play!! Life is ours we live it our way... Cos nothing else matters..!

---

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Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

I apologize if I've offended you. I did say clearly that I'm only an Inkscape user, and that my comments are coming from the perspective of a user, who has little experience with development.

It's possible I've not received all of your messages. When you mentioned that you had said several times that you were only showing part of the interface, I re-read every single message I have from you. And that was not said once. So I think that somehow I don't have all your messages.

Again, I apologize if I said something to offend you. I do not intend any ill will.

All best.

_________________________ From: Amarneethi R Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 1:57 AM To: Brynn ; inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape

I guess you have no experience with UI design or User Experience. BTW I was not just addressing you, I was addressing the whole developer list and the change is not for no apparent reason. Again you can read the mail thread as I have explained the thought process and the reason behind the redesign.

Almost all the design products(not just adobe products) use a dark UI and it's not just a coincidence. There are benefits to a dark UI from saving energy to being neutral to the colors that you use on a design and so on. You can google and find out.

I highly recommend you to take some time and pay attention and make comments or refrain from making comments if you dunno what you are talking about.

Good luck.

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 1:37 PM, Brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:

Hi Amarneethi,

Also I don't know if you had a chance to read my emails, I have been constantly mentioning that 85-90% of the UI/functions are there and the rest "ARE MISSING" and I have also mentioned that it can be accommodated gracefully in the same UI.

I must not have seen all your messages, because I didn't see that.

I don't know how it works and I don't know if there is someone who has to approve the features or a change like this into Inkscape.

I would like some help on how to take this further from here.

I'm the wrong person to ask about that. As I mentioned, I'm only an Inkscape user. I guess you could try and do some research, to find out how the current interface and icons were chosen. I know I've been using Inkscape since version 0.44, and the icons have never changed. So that's one reason this may not be an easy change to be implemented. (Also might be hard to research so long ago.)

Another reason (as I see it, being a simple user who has only observed the development community for a year or so) you are proposing 2, or possibly 3 different and some are major things: 1) You want to change ALL the icons. 2) You want to change.... well now, since you said your interface mockup is missing some things -- I'm not sure how much is missing and how much is a change. So possibly you want to change some of the dialogs, and possibly you want to change how some things are displayed in the window (the zoom and mouse position centered at the bottom) 3) And the 2-tone color theme is a major change for many users.

One of the first things I would do is mockup the entire interface. If the developers are to seriously consider it, they will need to see the whole proposal. Right?

Or maybe someone who actually knows the answer, about how to have your mockup seriously considered, will answer.

Personally, I suspect it's highly unlikely the project would just up and change the interface, for no apparent reason. If they do, I hope they make it optional, since I'm not a big fan of white on black.

Good luck! From: Amarneethi R Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 8:54 PM To: Brynn Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape

That's awesome Brynn, such detailed comments, we can use your knowledge of Inkscape during the process. Like you said, it's a stage to stage implementation and we can address the issues you had mentioned in the stages when we are actually implementing that part of the new design.

Also I don't know if you had a chance to read my emails, I have been constantly mentioning that 85-90% of the UI/functions are there and the rest "ARE MISSING" and I have also mentioned that it can be accommodated gracefully in the same UI.

I don't know how it works and I don't know if there is someone who has to approve the features or a change like this into Inkscape.

I would like some help on how to take this further from here.

Cheers

Amarneethi

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:

if this is just for Linux and/or Mac, I shouldn't really make any comments, since I'm a Windows user.

All best, brynn

Since it sounds like this is an overall ui design, I'll make some more comments.

1 - I think these are some big changes which cannot happen all at once. Maybe if they are implemented in stages, like each time there's a new version release, some more changes are added, it might work.

2 - I would like to see this as an option, and not forced on users. Personally I don't like white on black (or dark gray) themes. And I have not seen anywhere (screenshots from other users, since I only use Windows at present) any 2-tone ui or icon sets that I like. As I mentioned before, I have very few complaints with the current interface. Although....

This is a big "although". I would really, really, really like to see some way for Inkscape to have interchangeable themes, or sometimes I've seen called "skins", which can be changed easily from Inks Prefs; and in such a way that anyone could create their own personal theme, or create themes that they can share with the community.

Since I don't like the 2-tone ui in the first place, I'm not sure if it would be fair for me to make further comments.... Well, at least not about the icons' appearance, but I could make some comments that don't relate to the 2-tone nature of the interface. ____________

1 - Re your image, toolbox_names.jpg

I would not be in favor of the Gradient tool being hidden under the Paint tool. Imo, the Paint Bucket tool is more of a raster feature that's made to work for Inkscape. So it should not hide the Gradient tool. I use the Gradient tool by faaarr more often than PB. Actually it doesn't make sense to me to have them grouped at all, even if PB was hidden under Gradient tool.

Let's see, we currently have 20 tools, that you've somehow condensed down to 9. I'm not sure exactly which tools you consider a shape tool. (Rect, Ell, Star, Spiral, and maybe 3D Box?) So 9 plus 4 = 13. And then 1 more for hidden Gradient is 14.

Missing are Selection, Connector, Dropper, Eraser, Measure, and Zoom

I guess maybe you're having Zoom controlled from the bottom of the window? But where are the other 5 tools?

How do you decide which dialogs/panels will appear in the toolbox? What about Filters Editor? (I keep forgetting to make wishlist for a button for Filters Editor, to go in command bar with F/S, Text, Layers, etc.) And there are others that might work there as well.

The Layers icon looks too much like a New Document, New File, or maybe even a Pages icon. I haven't found your version of the New File icon yet, to be able to compare.

Align dialog icon needs a 3rd bar, to be more clear what it is. What happened to Distribute?

The Node tool icon needs to have at least 1 node in it.

The Transform Panel icon doesn't give me any indication what it's for. Without the text, I'd be confused. It could be the Node tool or a Fill tool, or even a shape tool.

Also I don't get the Paint tool icon, whatever it is. Imo, the bucket is a better symbol.

What happened to the Selection tool?

2 - Re your image, panels.png

For Text panel, why is there a color option? Can't we just use the color palette (or panel) to change text color?

For Transform panel, where do you choose units?

For Align panel, what happened to Distribute options? Are they in a separate panel?

For Layers panel, the little eye that opens and closes is classic. I suspect there would be constant complaints about the diamond shape for show/hide. Also, I'm not sure if you're showing all locked or all unlocked layers. (The current lock/unlock icons are also classic.)

I could take or leave having the palettes in a panel. It's one of those "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" things, imo. What are those 2 icons in top-right corner -- a dashed line and a solid line. Is that how you choose a different palette?

3 - Re inkscapeUI_v07.jpg

Whoa!! What happened to the status bar??!

I see that you put the Style Indicator section of the status bar in the....I'm guessing that's the Selection tool control bar. (Although I still haven't found the Selection tool icon yet.) What happens if you're using a different tool? Is the Style Indicator permantently in the control bar?

What happened to the Layer Indicator? I can see where maybe it's not needed, especially if the Layers dialog is open. But it's very convenient if Layers dialog is not open.

But MUCH more importantly, where's the Notification Area? In my opinion, the notification area is the single most important part of the interface!!

I see a whole LOT of blank space between the white rectangle and the toolbox on the left and dialog buttons on the right. From an image further down the page, it looks like the space on the right is where the dialogs open. But is that just wasted space on the left? And there's blank space above and below the white rectangle too. Where does the canvas start? Are there features that will use this space? Why not fill it up with more canvas space? ____________

Ok, those are all my comments :-)

All best, brynn

___________________________________ From: Amarneethi R Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 4:57 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape

Hi All,

First thanks to Sebastian, Brynn and others for their comments, suggestions and kind words. I will try to summarize the thought process behind the redesign.

The main thought process behind the new interface design for inkscape was to make it more organized and user-friendly than just a theme change. For example, right now the "Text and Font panel" (Ctrl+Shift+T) has three different tabs which is unnecessary in my opinion, if you look at the new text panel it covers almost all of the functionalities in all the three panels put together. There are a few functionalities in the panel which I don't understand, so I thought I can get an understanding from you guys when we actually implement it in development. As I have mentioned in my original mail, the missing functionalities can still be accommodated gracefully without sacrificing the visual appeal.

I had a conversation in the IRC channel with a inkscape user whether we should adapt the new icons and theme right away. Any product development change takes time and is done in phases, so we can look at re-organizing the panels with the existing iconography in phase one but some controls might have to be changed. We can take the same Text Panel as an example, the font chooser can be a "dropdown" instead of a "scrolling list" as the user will be able to see a consistent number of fonts whether a single panel is docked or multiple panels are docked. Right now if I have more than one panel docked, I'm not able to see more than five fonts and the scrolling becomes more painful. Another example is whenever I choose a font it doesn't reflect on the selected text item, I have to press "apply" button every time which is not very intuitive for the end-user, at least I should be able to apply when I double click on the font name in the current control, if it is dropdown it should apply the chosen font on the selected text.

These are my observations as a windows Inkscape user and just one example of the entire thought process. Having said all this I'm not sure of the limitations in terms of technology/framework. But I'm sure we can find elegant controls/solutions with GTK itself as I can already see those controls in the current design itself, but for different actions/functions. For example, instead of putting the "superscript", "subscript" in the variants tab and under an accordion we can use a similar control as the "left","right","center" alignment icons and put them under font tab, which is easier for the users to access than being hidden in another tab and under an accordion. :)

Once we are done with the re-organization of the tools and panels, we can look at switching the theme which I assume is a matter of changing the icon images or something similar.

Like Sebastian has mentioned UX is more than just a skin change and I think Inkscape can benefit from a UX overhaul.

Best Amarneethi

On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:

Maybe Im on the bad way but I love all GTK widgets changed to HTML widgets, so changin style is more easy and independent to programing layer.

Is this posible or is a cracy thing? Cheers, Jabier.

El sáb, 05-03-2016 a las 04:05 -0700, Brynn escribió:

I'll be glad to make some comments, simply as an Inkscape user. I'm not a developer.

I see that you must have put a lot of thought and long hours of work into this. And congratulation for that!

How did you decide what changes to make? Is it all just your own personal preference?

I think it would be very interesting, and very helpful, if someone (or a team) who wanted to make a new interface, would do some polling, to find out what changes are wanted/needed by the greater community as a whole. In my opinion, that's the kind of change in the interface which has the best chance of being adopted and used by the project. Although personally, for the most part, I'm happy with the current interface.

Or is this only for the Linux system, where it's my understanding it's easier to change the interface theme? If you intend this to be an overall interface change, for all systems, I could make some comments for you. But if this is just for Linux and/or Mac, I shouldn't really make any comments, since I'm a Windows user.

All best, brynn

____________________________________ From: Amarneethi R Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:00 PM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape

Hi Guys,

I have been working on a new user-interface for Inkscape, you can find the design in the link below. I'm a fan of open source softwares and been using them for over 5 years now and wanted to give back to the open source community. Let me know what you guys think. :)

http://artntechasone.com/forInkscapeTeam.html

Thanks Amarneethi

------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------

_______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

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----------- _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

Hi Inkscape Team and Brynn,

I'm sorry about the last couple of emails and the heated conversation.

I would like to know how and where to document the changes I'm suggesting to the UI, so people can refer to that link instead of emails as it becomes difficult to keep track of discussion here in the emails.

I would like some guidance from the Inkscape team on this.

Best Amarneethi

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Sebastian Zartner < sebastianzartner@...400...> wrote:

Just to clarify things: Amarneethi didn't mention the 85-90% in the first emails, but it was written at the top of the page showing the layout and in the second mail it was said that there is some functionality missing.

Anyway, let's keep this discussion sober from now on.

Sebastian

On 6 March 2016 at 20:13, Brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:

...

I apologize if I've offended you. I did say clearly that I'm only an Inkscape user, and that my comments are coming from the perspective of a user, who has little experience with development.

It's possible I've not received all of your messages. When you mentioned that you had said several times that you were only showing part of the interface, I re-read every single message I have from you. And that was not said once. So I think that somehow I don't have all your messages.

Again, I apologize if I said something to offend you. I do not intend any ill will.

All best.

---

From: Amarneethi R Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 1:57 AM To: Brynn ; inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape

I guess you have no experience with UI design or User Experience. BTW I was not just addressing you, I was addressing the whole developer list and the change is not for no apparent reason. Again you can read the mail thread as I have explained the thought process and the reason behind the redesign.

Almost all the design products(not just adobe products) use a dark UI and it's not just a coincidence. There are benefits to a dark UI from saving energy to being neutral to the colors that you use on a design and so on. You can google and find out.

I highly recommend you to take some time and pay attention and make comments or refrain from making comments if you dunno what you are talking about.

Good luck.

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 1:37 PM, Brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:

Hi Amarneethi,

Also I don't know if you had a chance to read my emails, I have been constantly mentioning that 85-90% of the UI/functions are there and the rest "ARE MISSING" and I have also mentioned that it can be accommodated gracefully in the same UI.

I must not have seen all your messages, because I didn't see that.

I don't know how it works and I don't know if there is someone who has to approve the features or a change like this into Inkscape.

I would like some help on how to take this further from here.

I'm the wrong person to ask about that. As I mentioned, I'm only an Inkscape user. I guess you could try and do some research, to find out how the current interface and icons were chosen. I know I've been using Inkscape since version 0.44, and the icons have never changed. So that's one reason this may not be an easy change to be implemented. (Also might be hard to research so long ago.)

Another reason (as I see it, being a simple user who has only observed the development community for a year or so) you are proposing 2, or possibly 3 different and some are major things: 1) You want to change ALL the icons. 2) You want to change.... well now, since you said your interface mockup is missing some things -- I'm not sure how much is missing and how much is a change. So possibly you want to change some of the dialogs, and possibly you want to change how some things are displayed in the window (the zoom and mouse position centered at the bottom) 3) And the 2-tone color theme is a major change for many users.

One of the first things I would do is mockup the entire interface. If the developers are to seriously consider it, they will need to see the whole proposal. Right?

Or maybe someone who actually knows the answer, about how to have your mockup seriously considered, will answer.

Personally, I suspect it's highly unlikely the project would just up and change the interface, for no apparent reason. If they do, I hope they make it optional, since I'm not a big fan of white on black.

Good luck! From: Amarneethi R Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 8:54 PM To: Brynn Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape

That's awesome Brynn, such detailed comments, we can use your knowledge of Inkscape during the process. Like you said, it's a stage to stage implementation and we can address the issues you had mentioned in the stages when we are actually implementing that part of the new design.

Also I don't know if you had a chance to read my emails, I have been constantly mentioning that 85-90% of the UI/functions are there and the rest "ARE MISSING" and I have also mentioned that it can be accommodated gracefully in the same UI.

I don't know how it works and I don't know if there is someone who has to approve the features or a change like this into Inkscape.

I would like some help on how to take this further from here.

Cheers

Amarneethi

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:

if this is just for Linux and/or Mac, I shouldn't really make any comments, since I'm a Windows user.

All best, brynn

Since it sounds like this is an overall ui design, I'll make some more comments.

1 - I think these are some big changes which cannot happen all at once. Maybe if they are implemented in stages, like each time there's a new version release, some more changes are added, it might work.

2 - I would like to see this as an option, and not forced on users. Personally I don't like white on black (or dark gray) themes. And I have not seen anywhere (screenshots from other users, since I only use Windows at present) any 2-tone ui or icon sets that I like. As I mentioned before, I have very few complaints with the current interface. Although....

This is a big "although". I would really, really, really like to see some way for Inkscape to have interchangeable themes, or sometimes I've seen called "skins", which can be changed easily from Inks Prefs; and in such a way that anyone could create their own personal theme, or create themes that they can share with the community.

Since I don't like the 2-tone ui in the first place, I'm not sure if it would be fair for me to make further comments.... Well, at least not about the icons' appearance, but I could make some comments that don't relate to the 2-tone nature of the interface. ____________

1 - Re your image, toolbox_names.jpg

I would not be in favor of the Gradient tool being hidden under the Paint tool. Imo, the Paint Bucket tool is more of a raster feature that's made to work for Inkscape. So it should not hide the Gradient tool. I use the Gradient tool by faaarr more often than PB. Actually it doesn't make sense to me to have them grouped at all, even if PB was hidden under Gradient tool.

Let's see, we currently have 20 tools, that you've somehow condensed down to 9. I'm not sure exactly which tools you consider a shape tool. (Rect, Ell, Star, Spiral, and maybe 3D Box?) So 9 plus 4 = 13. And then 1 more for hidden Gradient is 14.

Missing are Selection, Connector, Dropper, Eraser, Measure, and Zoom

I guess maybe you're having Zoom controlled from the bottom of the window? But where are the other 5 tools?

How do you decide which dialogs/panels will appear in the toolbox? What about Filters Editor? (I keep forgetting to make wishlist for a button for Filters Editor, to go in command bar with F/S, Text, Layers, etc.) And there are others that might work there as well.

The Layers icon looks too much like a New Document, New File, or maybe even a Pages icon. I haven't found your version of the New File icon yet, to be able to compare.

Align dialog icon needs a 3rd bar, to be more clear what it is. What happened to Distribute?

The Node tool icon needs to have at least 1 node in it.

The Transform Panel icon doesn't give me any indication what it's for. Without the text, I'd be confused. It could be the Node tool or a Fill tool, or even a shape tool.

Also I don't get the Paint tool icon, whatever it is. Imo, the bucket is a better symbol.

What happened to the Selection tool?

2 - Re your image, panels.png

For Text panel, why is there a color option? Can't we just use the color palette (or panel) to change text color?

For Transform panel, where do you choose units?

For Align panel, what happened to Distribute options? Are they in a separate panel?

For Layers panel, the little eye that opens and closes is classic. I suspect there would be constant complaints about the diamond shape for show/hide. Also, I'm not sure if you're showing all locked or all unlocked layers. (The current lock/unlock icons are also classic.)

I could take or leave having the palettes in a panel. It's one of those "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" things, imo. What are those 2 icons in top-right corner -- a dashed line and a solid line. Is that how you choose a different palette?

3 - Re inkscapeUI_v07.jpg

Whoa!! What happened to the status bar??!

I see that you put the Style Indicator section of the status bar in the....I'm guessing that's the Selection tool control bar. (Although I still haven't found the Selection tool icon yet.) What happens if you're using a different tool? Is the Style Indicator permantently in the control bar?

What happened to the Layer Indicator? I can see where maybe it's not needed, especially if the Layers dialog is open. But it's very convenient if Layers dialog is not open.

But MUCH more importantly, where's the Notification Area? In my opinion, the notification area is the single most important part of the interface!!

I see a whole LOT of blank space between the white rectangle and the toolbox on the left and dialog buttons on the right. From an image further down the page, it looks like the space on the right is where the dialogs open. But is that just wasted space on the left? And there's blank space above and below the white rectangle too. Where does the canvas start? Are there features that will use this space? Why not fill it up with more canvas space? ____________

Ok, those are all my comments :-)

All best, brynn

---

From: Amarneethi R Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 4:57 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape

Hi All,

First thanks to Sebastian, Brynn and others for their comments, suggestions and kind words. I will try to summarize the thought process behind the redesign.

The main thought process behind the new interface design for inkscape was to make it more organized and user-friendly than just a theme change. For example, right now the "Text and Font panel" (Ctrl+Shift+T) has three different tabs which is unnecessary in my opinion, if you look at the new text panel it covers almost all of the functionalities in all the three panels put together. There are a few functionalities in the panel which I don't understand, so I thought I can get an understanding from you guys when we actually implement it in development. As I have mentioned in my original mail, the missing functionalities can still be accommodated gracefully without sacrificing the visual appeal.

I had a conversation in the IRC channel with a inkscape user whether we should adapt the new icons and theme right away. Any product development change takes time and is done in phases, so we can look at re-organizing the panels with the existing iconography in phase one but some controls might have to be changed. We can take the same Text Panel as an example, the font chooser can be a "dropdown" instead of a "scrolling list" as the user will be able to see a consistent number of fonts whether a single panel is docked or multiple panels are docked. Right now if I have more than one panel docked, I'm not able to see more than five fonts and the scrolling becomes more painful. Another example is whenever I choose a font it doesn't reflect on the selected text item, I have to press "apply" button every time which is not very intuitive for the end-user, at least I should be able to apply when I double click on the font name in the current control, if it is dropdown it should apply the chosen font on the selected text.

These are my observations as a windows Inkscape user and just one example of the entire thought process. Having said all this I'm not sure of the limitations in terms of technology/framework. But I'm sure we can find elegant controls/solutions with GTK itself as I can already see those controls in the current design itself, but for different actions/functions. For example, instead of putting the "superscript", "subscript" in the variants tab and under an accordion we can use a similar control as the "left","right","center" alignment icons and put them under font tab, which is easier for the users to access than being hidden in another tab and under an accordion. :)

Once we are done with the re-organization of the tools and panels, we can look at switching the theme which I assume is a matter of changing the icon images or something similar.

Like Sebastian has mentioned UX is more than just a skin change and I think Inkscape can benefit from a UX overhaul.

Best Amarneethi

On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> wrote:

Maybe Im on the bad way but I love all GTK widgets changed to HTML widgets, so changin style is more easy and independent to programing layer.

Is this posible or is a cracy thing? Cheers, Jabier.

El sáb, 05-03-2016 a las 04:05 -0700, Brynn escribió:

I'll be glad to make some comments, simply as an Inkscape user. I'm not a developer.

I see that you must have put a lot of thought and long hours of work into this. And congratulation for that!

How did you decide what changes to make? Is it all just your own personal preference?

I think it would be very interesting, and very helpful, if someone (or a team) who wanted to make a new interface, would do some polling, to find out what changes are wanted/needed by the greater community as a whole. In my opinion, that's the kind of change in the interface which has the best chance of being adopted and used by the project. Although personally, for the most part, I'm happy with the current interface.

Or is this only for the Linux system, where it's my understanding it's easier to change the interface theme? If you intend this to be an overall interface change, for all systems, I could make some comments for you. But if this is just for Linux and/or Mac, I shouldn't really make any comments, since I'm a Windows user.

All best, brynn

---

From: Amarneethi R Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:00 PM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape

Hi Guys,

I have been working on a new user-interface for Inkscape, you can find the design in the link below. I'm a fan of open source softwares and been using them for over 5 years now and wanted to give back to the open source community. Let me know what you guys think. :)

http://artntechasone.com/forInkscapeTeam.html

Thanks Amarneethi

---

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---

Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

---

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Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

--

Best Regards Amarneethi Never care for things they say! Never care for games they play!! Life is ours we live it our way... Cos nothing else matters..!

---

---

Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

--

Best Regards Amarneethi Never care for things they say! Never care for games they play!! Life is ours we live it our way... Cos nothing else matters..!

--

Best Regards Amarneethi Never care for things they say! Never care for games they play!! Life is ours we live it our way... Cos nothing else matters..!

---

---

Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

Am 08.03.2016 um 17:50 schrieb Amarneethi R:

Since the mailing list was down for a while, I'm re-sending the message.

Hi Inkscape Team and Brynn,

I'm sorry about the last couple of emails and the heated conversation.

I would like to know how and where to document the changes I'm suggesting to the UI, so people can refer to that link instead of emails as it becomes difficult to keep track of discussion here in the emails.

I would like some guidance from the Inkscape team on this.

Best Amarneethi

Hi Amarneethi,

Martin and Jabier usually use the website gallery for this.

It offers the option to upload text files, vector files or raster images (and more), and to add a description. We've also got a category 'UI Mockups' set up for this purpose.

If you don't have an account yet, you can register at https://inkscape.org/user/register/ and then upload images to your 'Inkspace'.

If at some point you need more space than the standard 10 Mb, just send a message to the devel list, and we can raise your quota.

There's also the Inkscape Wiki (http://wiki.inkscape.org), if you prefer to write longer, formatted text. If you'd like an account there, please request one via this mailing list, stating your desired user name.

Maren

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 4:15 PM, Amarneethi R <amarneethi@...400... mailto:amarneethi@...400...> wrote:

Hi Inkscape Team and Brynn,

I'm sorry about the last couple of emails and the heated conversation.

I would like to know how and where to document the changes I'm
suggesting to the UI, so people can refer to that link instead of
emails as it becomes difficult to keep track of discussion here in
the emails.

I would like some guidance from the Inkscape team on this.

Best
Amarneethi

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Sebastian Zartner
<sebastianzartner@...400... <mailto:sebastianzartner@...400...>> wrote:

    Just to clarify things:
    Amarneethi didn't mention the 85-90% in the first emails, but it
    was written at the top of the page showing the layout and in the
    second mail it was said that there is some functionality missing.

    Anyway, let's keep this discussion sober from now on.

    Sebastian

    On 6 March 2016 at 20:13, Brynn <brynn@...3133...
    <mailto:brynn@...3133...>> wrote:

        I apologize if I've offended you.  I did say clearly that
        I'm only an
        Inkscape user, and that my comments are coming from the
        perspective of a
        user, who has little experience with development.

        It's possible I've not received all of your messages.  When
        you mentioned
        that you had said several times that you were only showing
        part of the
        interface, I re-read every single message I have from  you. 
        And that was
        not said once.  So I think that somehow I don't have all
        your messages.

        Again, I apologize if I said something to offend you.  I do
        not intend any
        ill will.

        All best.

        _________________________
        From: Amarneethi R
        Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 1:57 AM
        To: Brynn ; inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
        <mailto:inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
        Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape


        I guess you have no experience with UI design or User
        Experience. BTW I was
        not just addressing you, I was addressing the whole
        developer list and the
        change is not for no apparent reason. Again you can read the
        mail thread as
        I have explained the thought process and the reason behind
        the redesign.



        Almost all the design products(not just adobe products) use
        a dark UI and
        it's not just a coincidence. There are benefits to a dark UI
        from saving
        energy to being neutral to the colors that you use on a
        design and so on.
        You can google and find out.


        I highly recommend you to take some time and pay attention
        and make comments
        or refrain from making comments if you dunno what you are
        talking about.

        Good luck.




        On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 1:37 PM, Brynn <brynn@...3133...
        <mailto:brynn@...3133...>> wrote:

        Hi Amarneethi,

        Also I don't know if you had a chance to read my emails, I
        have been
        constantly mentioning that 85-90% of the UI/functions are
        there and the rest
        "ARE MISSING" and I have also mentioned that it can be
        accommodated
        gracefully in the same UI.

        I must not have seen all your messages, because I didn't see
        that.

        I don't know how it works and I don't know if there is
        someone who has to
        approve the features or a change like this into Inkscape.

        I would like some help on how to take this further from here.

        I'm the wrong person to ask about that.  As I mentioned, I'm
        only an
        Inkscape user.  I guess you could try and do some research,
        to find out how
        the current interface and icons were chosen.  I know I've
        been using
        Inkscape since version 0.44, and the icons have never
        changed.  So that's
        one reason this may not be an easy change to be
        implemented.  (Also might be
        hard to research so long ago.)

        Another reason (as I see it, being a simple user who has
        only observed the
        development community for a year or so) you are proposing 2,
        or possibly 3
        different and some are major things:  1) You want to change
        ALL the icons.
        2) You want to change.... well now, since you said your
        interface mockup is
        missing some things -- I'm not sure how much is missing and
        how much is a
        change.  So possibly you want to change some of the dialogs,
        and possibly
        you want to change how some things are displayed in the
        window (the zoom and
        mouse position centered at the bottom)  3)  And the 2-tone
        color theme is a
        major change for many users.

        One of the first things I would do is mockup the entire
        interface.  If the
        developers are to seriously consider it, they will need to
        see the whole
        proposal.  Right?

        Or maybe someone who actually knows the answer, about how to
        have your
        mockup seriously considered, will answer.

        Personally, I suspect it's highly unlikely the project would
        just up and
        change the interface, for no apparent reason.  If they do, I
        hope they make
        it optional, since I'm not a big fan of white on black.

        Good luck!
        From: Amarneethi R
        Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 8:54 PM
        To: Brynn
        Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
        <mailto:inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
        Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape


        That's awesome Brynn, such detailed comments, we can use
        your knowledge of
        Inkscape during the process. Like you said, it's a stage to
        stage
        implementation and we can address the issues you had
        mentioned in the stages
        when we are actually implementing that part of the new design.


        Also I don't know if you had a chance to read my emails, I
        have been
        constantly mentioning that 85-90% of the UI/functions are
        there and the rest
        "ARE MISSING" and I have also mentioned that it can be
        accommodated
        gracefully in the same UI.


        I don't know how it works and I don't know if there is
        someone who has to
        approve the features or a change like this into Inkscape.

        I would like some help on how to take this further from here.



        Cheers

        Amarneethi



        On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Brynn <brynn@...3133...
        <mailto:brynn@...3133...>> wrote:

        if this is just for Linux and/or Mac, I shouldn't really
        make any
        comments,
        since I'm a Windows user.

        All best,
        brynn


        Since it sounds like this is an overall ui design, I'll make
        some more
        comments.

        1 - I think these are some big changes which cannot happen
        all at once.
        Maybe if they are implemented in stages, like each time
        there's a new
        version release, some more changes are added, it might work.

        2 - I would like to see this as an option, and not forced on
        users.
        Personally I don't like white on black (or dark gray)
        themes.  And I have
        not seen anywhere (screenshots from other users, since I
        only use Windows at
        present) any 2-tone ui or icon sets that I like.  As I
        mentioned before, I
        have very few complaints with the current interface. 
         Although....

        This is a big "although".  I would really, really, really
        like to see some
        way for Inkscape to have interchangeable themes, or
        sometimes I've seen
        called "skins", which can be changed easily from Inks Prefs;
        and in such a
        way that anyone could create their own personal theme, or
        create themes that
        they can share with the community.

        Since I don't like the 2-tone ui in the first place, I'm not
        sure if it
        would be fair for me to make further comments....  Well, at
        least not about
        the icons' appearance, but I could make some comments that
        don't relate to
        the 2-tone nature of the interface.
        ____________

        1 - Re your image, toolbox_names.jpg

        I would not be in favor of the Gradient tool being hidden
        under the Paint
        tool.  Imo, the Paint Bucket tool is more of a raster
        feature that's made to
        work for Inkscape.  So it should not hide the Gradient
        tool.  I use the
        Gradient tool by faaarr more often than PB.  Actually it
        doesn't make sense
        to me to have them grouped at all, even if PB was hidden
        under Gradient
        tool.

        Let's see, we currently have 20 tools, that you've somehow
        condensed down to
        9.  I'm not sure exactly which tools you consider a shape
        tool.  (Rect, Ell,
        Star, Spiral, and maybe 3D Box?)  So 9 plus 4 = 13.  And
        then 1 more for
        hidden Gradient is 14.

        Missing are Selection, Connector, Dropper, Eraser, Measure,
        and Zoom

        I guess maybe you're having Zoom controlled from the bottom
        of the window?
        But where are the other 5 tools?

        How do you decide which dialogs/panels will appear in the
        toolbox?  What
        about Filters Editor?  (I keep forgetting to make wishlist
        for a button for
        Filters Editor, to go in command bar with F/S, Text, Layers,
        etc.)  And
        there are others that might work there as well.

        The Layers icon looks too much like a New Document, New
        File, or maybe even
        a Pages icon.  I haven't found your version of the New File
        icon yet, to be
        able to compare.

        Align dialog icon needs a 3rd bar, to be more clear what it
        is.  What
        happened to Distribute?

        The Node tool icon needs to have at least 1 node in it.

        The Transform Panel icon doesn't give me any indication what
        it's for.
        Without the text, I'd be confused.  It could be the Node
        tool or a Fill
        tool, or even a shape tool.

        Also I don't get the Paint tool icon, whatever it is.  Imo,
        the bucket is a
        better symbol.

        What happened to the Selection tool?

        2 - Re your image, panels.png

        For Text panel, why is there a color option?  Can't we just
        use the color
        palette (or panel) to change text color?

        For Transform panel, where do you choose units?

        For Align panel, what happened to Distribute options?  Are
        they in a
        separate panel?

        For Layers panel, the little eye that opens and closes is
        classic.  I
        suspect there would be constant complaints about the diamond
        shape for
        show/hide.  Also, I'm not sure if you're showing all locked
        or all unlocked
        layers.  (The current lock/unlock icons are also classic.)

        I could take or leave having the palettes in a panel.  It's
        one of those "if
        it isn't broken, don't fix it" things, imo.  What are those
        2 icons in
        top-right corner -- a dashed line and a solid line.  Is that
        how you choose
        a different palette?

        3 - Re inkscapeUI_v07.jpg

        Whoa!!  What happened to the status bar??!

        I see that you put the Style Indicator section of the status
        bar in
        the....I'm guessing that's the Selection tool control bar.
        (Although I still
        haven't found the Selection tool icon yet.)  What happens if
        you're using a
        different tool?  Is the Style Indicator permantently in the
        control bar?

        What happened to the Layer Indicator?  I can see where maybe
        it's not
        needed, especially if the Layers dialog is open.  But it's
        very convenient
        if Layers dialog is not open.

        But MUCH more importantly, where's the Notification Area? 
        In my opinion,
        the notification area is the single most important part of
        the interface!!

        I see a whole LOT of blank space between the white rectangle
        and the toolbox
        on the left and dialog buttons on the right.  From an image
        further down the
        page, it looks like the space on the right is where the
        dialogs open.  But
        is that just wasted space on the left?   And there's blank
        space above and
        below the white rectangle too.  Where does the canvas
        start?  Are there
        features that will use this space?  Why not fill it up with
        more canvas
        space?
        ____________

        Ok, those are all my comments :-)

        All best,
        brynn

        ___________________________________
        From: Amarneethi R
        Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 4:57 AM
        To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
        <mailto:inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
        Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape



        Hi All,


        First thanks to Sebastian, Brynn and others for their
        comments, suggestions
        and kind words.
        I will try to summarize the thought process behind the redesign.


        The main thought process behind the new interface design for
        inkscape was to
        make it more organized and user-friendly than just a theme
        change. For
        example, right now the "Text and Font panel" (Ctrl+Shift+T)
        has three
        different tabs which is unnecessary in my opinion, if you
        look at the new
        text panel it covers almost all of the functionalities in
        all the three
        panels put together. There are a few functionalities in the
        panel which I
        don't understand, so I thought I can get an understanding
        from you guys when
        we actually implement it in development. As I have mentioned
        in my original
        mail, the missing functionalities can still be accommodated
        gracefully
        without sacrificing the visual appeal.


        I had a conversation in the IRC channel with a inkscape user
        whether we
        should adapt the new icons and theme right away. Any product
        development
        change takes time and is done in phases, so we can look at
        re-organizing the
        panels with the existing iconography in phase one but some
        controls might
        have to be changed. We can take the same Text Panel as an
        example, the font
        chooser can be a "dropdown" instead of a "scrolling list" as
        the user will
        be able to see a consistent number of fonts whether a single
        panel is docked
        or multiple panels are docked. Right now if I have more than
        one panel
        docked, I'm not able to see more than five fonts and the
        scrolling becomes
        more painful.  Another example is whenever I choose a font
        it doesn't
        reflect on the selected text item, I have to press "apply"
        button every time
        which is not very intuitive for the end-user, at least I
        should be able to
        apply when I double click on the font name in the current
        control, if it is
        dropdown it should apply the chosen font on the selected text.




        These are my observations as a windows Inkscape user and
        just one example of
        the entire thought process. Having said all this I'm not
        sure of the
        limitations in terms of technology/framework. But I'm sure
        we can find
        elegant controls/solutions with GTK itself as I can already
        see those
        controls in the current design itself, but for different
        actions/functions.
        For example, instead of putting the "superscript",
        "subscript" in the
        variants tab and under an accordion we can use a similar
        control as the
        "left","right","center" alignment icons and put them under
        font tab, which
        is easier for the users to access than being hidden in
        another tab and under
        an accordion. :)


        Once we are done with the re-organization of the tools and
        panels, we can
        look at switching the theme which I assume is a matter of
        changing the icon
        images or something similar.


        Like Sebastian has mentioned UX is more than just a skin
        change and I think
        Inkscape can benefit from a UX overhaul.


        Best
        Amarneethi


        On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz
        <jabier.arraiza@...2893... <mailto:jabier.arraiza@...2893...>>
        wrote:

        Maybe Im on the bad way but I love all GTK widgets changed
        to HTML
        widgets, so changin style is more easy and independent to
        programing
        layer.

        Is this posible or is a cracy thing?
        Cheers, Jabier.


        El sáb, 05-03-2016 a las 04:05 -0700, Brynn escribió:

        I'll be glad to make some comments, simply as an Inkscape
        user.  I'm
        not a
        developer.

        I see that you must have put a lot of thought and long hours
        of work
        into
        this.  And congratulation for that!

        How did you decide what changes to make?  Is it all just
        your own
        personal
        preference?

        I think it would be very interesting, and very helpful, if
        someone
        (or a
        team) who wanted to make a new interface, would do some
        polling, to
        find out
        what changes are wanted/needed by the greater community as a
        whole.  In my
        opinion, that's the kind of change in the interface which
        has the
        best
        chance of being adopted and used by the project.  Although
        personally, for
        the most part, I'm happy with the current interface.

        Or is this only for the Linux system, where it's my
        understanding
        it's
        easier to change the interface theme?  If you intend this to
        be an
        overall
        interface change, for all systems, I could make some
        comments for
        you.  But
        if this is just for Linux and/or Mac, I shouldn't really
        make any
        comments,
        since I'm a Windows user.

        All best,
        brynn

        ____________________________________
        From: Amarneethi R
        Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:00 PM
        To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
        <mailto:inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
        Subject: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape


        Hi Guys,


        I have been working on a new user-interface for Inkscape,
        you can
        find the
        design in the link below.
        I'm a fan of open source softwares and been using them for
        over 5
        years now
        and wanted to give back to the open source community.
        Let me know what you guys think. :)


        http://artntechasone.com/forInkscapeTeam.html





        Thanks
        Amarneethi



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        --

        Best Regards
        Amarneethi
        Never care for things they say!
        Never care for games they play!!
        Life is ours we live it our way...
        Cos nothing else matters..!




        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------





        _______________________________________________
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        <mailto:Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
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        --

        Best Regards
        Amarneethi
        Never care for things they say!
        Never care for games they play!!
        Life is ours we live it our way...
        Cos nothing else matters..!



        --

        Best Regards
        Amarneethi
        Never care for things they say!
        Never care for games they play!!
        Life is ours we live it our way...
        Cos nothing else matters..!


        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        _______________________________________________
        Inkscape-devel mailing list
        Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
        <mailto:Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
        https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel





-- 
Best Regards
*Amarneethi*
Never care for things they say!
Never care for games they play!!
Life is ours we live it our way...
Cos nothing else matters..!

-- Best Regards *Amarneethi* Never care for things they say! Never care for games they play!! Life is ours we live it our way... Cos nothing else matters..!

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5 марта 2016 г. 14:14 пользователь "Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz" написал:

Maybe Im on the bad way but I love all GTK widgets changed to HTML widgets, so changin style is more easy and independent to programing layer.

GTK+3 styling is CSS-based.

Alex

Am Sonntag, 6. März 2016, 23:07:22 schrieb Amarneethi:

[...]

it is not just a skin or design change, a lot of thought process has gone through in terms of making the tools more accessible and more user-friendly.

Maybe it would help explaining that thought process and the reasons for the individual changes. And why you think they make the UI more accessible and user-friendly.

[...]

Tobias

6 марта 2016 г. 20:38 пользователь "Amarneethi" написал:

I'm trying to help here guys, sometimes when people make comments without

any context or not knowing the discussion that has happened before, it is frustrating. As for the redesign, I would like to re-iterate that it is not just a skin or design change, a lot of thought process has gone through in terms of making the tools more accessible and more user-friendly.

I'm not in a position to demand anything, but if this is a constructive discussion, then it might be wise to explain the thought process behind your proposal rather than state that there was a thought process involved. Otherwise all we do is talk about pretty pictures.

Alex

Am Sonntag, 6. März 2016, 18:46:03 schrieb Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz:

Great!

El dom, 06-03-2016 a las 19:32 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine escribió:

...

5 марта 2016 г. 14:14 пользователь "Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz" написал:

...

Maybe Im on the bad way but I love all GTK widgets changed to HTML widgets, so changin style is more easy and independent to programing layer.

That was already possible with gtkrc files.

...

GTK+3 styling is CSS-based.

Actually it's only a subset of CSS.

...

Alex

Tobias

Reading this thread it came to my mind that there was already an initiative of a group to redesign Inkscape's UI back in 2014. See https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/mailman/message/33145877/ and https://github.com/PIWEEK/rethinkscape. The people behind this layout had some good ideas and also explained the changes they made.

To me, Amarneethi's layout is also appealing and I welcome the general simplification of the UI. Instead of arguing whether white on dark is good or bad and whether the icons are nice and expressive (that mostly depends on taste; FWIW I personally like both, basically, but would make it optional), I'd say to first discuss the flaws of the current UI and then have a look at how it can be improved, how the two proposed UIs handle those flaws, and whether the changes are technically feasible. Amarneethi, I agree with Alexandre that it would help people looking at your mockups a lot if you explained the thought process behind it.

Sebastian

PS: Shlomi, Brynn, as you don't like the dark-on-white layout, have a look at Amarneethi's last mockup, which is dark-on-white.

On 6 March 2016 at 18:56, Tobias Ellinghaus <houz@...173...> wrote:

Am Sonntag, 6. März 2016, 18:46:03 schrieb Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz:

...

Great!

El dom, 06-03-2016 a las 19:32 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine escribió:

...

5 марта 2016 г. 14:14 пользователь "Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz" написал:

...

Maybe Im on the bad way but I love all GTK widgets changed to HTML widgets, so changin style is more easy and independent to programing layer.

That was already possible with gtkrc files.

...

...

GTK+3 styling is CSS-based.

Actually it's only a subset of CSS.

...

...

Alex

Tobias

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