I have a recent laptop with Windows 7, 64 bit and 8GB of RAM. If I use any kind of effects on inkscape I can forget using inkscape for the day because the speed is so slow it takes a day for any movement to appear on the screen. Again trying to export to bitmap is impossible. If I don't use any effects then the speed is reasonable. I like what Inkscape is intended to do but does anyone know of a similar open source program that will work on Windows 7??
Dennis
Hi Dennis. I'm a beginner that still only has drawn the Swedish flag of the –wonderful– manual, so be indulgent with me...
Look at Inkscape Preferences (shift+ctrl+p) > Filters to see what display qualities are checked. They influence the processing speed.
hth
On 30 Aug 2012, at 16:10, Dennis Melling wrote:
If I use any kind of effects on inkscape I can forget using inkscape for the day because the speed is so slow
-- Eneko Gotzon Ares
Hi
Thank you for your offer of help. I have just finished a very intricate drawing of a sorceress and noticed that I had mixed a layer and the mouth and nose needed to be rescaled. I have been trying to do these simple edits for 3 days! I tried your suggestion and moved both filters from normal to lower quality and did notice a slight increase in speed, however, the image was completely blurred out :(
Thank you Dennis
On 30 August 2012 22:17, Eneko Gotzon Ares <enekogotzon@...155...> wrote:
Hi Dennis. I'm a beginner that still only has drawn the Swedish flag of the –wonderful– manual, so be indulgent with me...
Look at Inkscape Preferences (shift+ctrl+p) > Filters to see what display qualities are checked. They influence the processing speed.
hth
On 30 Aug 2012, at 16:10, Dennis Melling wrote:
If I use any kind of effects on inkscape I can forget using inkscape for the day because the speed is so slow
-- Eneko Gotzon Ares
Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:10 AM, Dennis Melling <dennismelling.rom@...155...> wrote:
I have a recent laptop with Windows 7, 64 bit and 8GB of RAM. If I use any kind of effects on inkscape I can forget using inkscape for the day because the speed is so slow it takes a day for any movement to appear on the screen. Again trying to export to bitmap is impossible. If I don't use any effects then the speed is reasonable. I like what Inkscape is intended to do but does anyone know of a similar open source program that will work on Windows 7??
By effects do you mean Filters?
Cheers, Josh
Hi
Yes the filters. I mainly use blur and combined lighting but both of them make it impossible for me to continue to use Inkscape.
Dennis
On 30 August 2012 22:18, Josh Andler <scislac@...155...> wrote:
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:10 AM, Dennis Melling <dennismelling.rom@...155...> wrote:
I have a recent laptop with Windows 7, 64 bit and 8GB of RAM. If I use any kind of effects on inkscape I can forget using inkscape for the day because the speed is so slow it takes a day for any movement to appear on the screen. Again trying to export to bitmap is impossible. If I don't use any effects then the speed is reasonable. I like what Inkscape is intended to do but does anyone know of a similar open source program that will work on Windows 7??
By effects do you mean Filters?
Cheers, Josh
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Hi,
This URL may yield some results for you: http://alternativeto.net/software/inkscape/?platform=windows
Perhaps another option, though, would be to try out a nightly build of inkscape for windows?
I've also found that after I group complicated objects together, inkscape speeds up quite a bit - maybe it's a workaround for you as well?
-Chris
On 2012-08-30, at 7:10 AM, Dennis Melling <dennismelling.rom@...155...> wrote:
I have a recent laptop with Windows 7, 64 bit and 8GB of RAM. If I use any kind of effects on inkscape I can forget using inkscape for the day because the speed is so slow it takes a day for any movement to appear on the screen. Again trying to export to bitmap is impossible. If I don't use any effects then the speed is reasonable. I like what Inkscape is intended to do but does anyone know of a similar open source program that will work on Windows 7??
Dennis
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Thank you Chris
I will check out the url.
I have just completed a very complex image and have tried grouping several areas and applying filters to small areas as I go but, as soon as I apply a filter, Inkscape just grinds to a halt (alternating between open and not responding every second).
I have used Gimp for several years and with my 8GB RAM I just fly through an image but Inkscape is a terrible disappointment :(
Dennis
On 30 August 2012 22:22, Chris Tooley <euxneks@...155...> wrote:
Hi,
This URL may yield some results for you: http://alternativeto.net/software/inkscape/?platform=windows
Perhaps another option, though, would be to try out a nightly build of inkscape for windows?
I've also found that after I group complicated objects together, inkscape speeds up quite a bit - maybe it's a workaround for you as well?
-Chris
On 2012-08-30, at 7:10 AM, Dennis Melling <dennismelling.rom@...155...> wrote:
I have a recent laptop with Windows 7, 64 bit and 8GB of RAM. If I use any kind of effects on inkscape I can forget using inkscape for the day because the speed is so slow it takes a day for any movement to appear on the screen. Again trying to export to bitmap is impossible. If I don't use any effects then the speed is reasonable. I like what Inkscape is intended to do but does anyone know of a similar open source program that will work on Windows 7??
Dennis
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On 08/31/2012 10:05 AM, Dennis Melling wrote:
I will check out the url.
I have just completed a very complex image and have tried grouping several areas and applying filters to small areas as I go but, as soon as I apply a filter, Inkscape just grinds to a halt (alternating between open and not responding every second).
I have used Gimp for several years and with my 8GB RAM I just fly through an image but Inkscape is a terrible disappointment :(
These (GIMP and Inkscape) are different apps and work fundamentally in different ways, in one case everything is rasterized and in the other you keep track (and compute) every node and transformation.
It is known that adding a lot of filters will greatly slow-down Inkscape (not only on Windows). It was suggested earlier to lower the quality, that's a workaround, you are supposed to turn them up again then the graphics are done for the final result.
Other workarounds include toggling various display modes (no filters, outline) during the editing process and go back to normal when done.
Another way is to keep various elements in their own layers and toggle the visibility of those layers on and off, you make them visible only when you need them: an invisible layer does not need to be redrawn and will not speed down the application.
Unfortunately, there is no Free software alternative to Inkscape (there are some other FOSS vector editors, but feature-wise they are inferior), so you will have to rely on workarounds.
Hi
That is great information, I will look into these work arounds but I am still very disappointed with Inkscape. After reading lots of positives about the program I thought that it would be very good. When I reach my final image with the filter effects applied I can no longer edit anything and converting to a bitmap image is like crashing your head into a brick wall:(
Dennis
On 31 August 2012 11:58, Nicu Buculei <nicu_gfx@...2342...> wrote:
On 08/31/2012 10:05 AM, Dennis Melling wrote:
I will check out the url.
I have just completed a very complex image and have tried grouping several areas and applying filters to small areas as I go but, as soon as I apply a filter, Inkscape just grinds to a halt (alternating between open and not responding every second).
I have used Gimp for several years and with my 8GB RAM I just fly through an image but Inkscape is a terrible disappointment :(
These (GIMP and Inkscape) are different apps and work fundamentally in different ways, in one case everything is rasterized and in the other you keep track (and compute) every node and transformation.
It is known that adding a lot of filters will greatly slow-down Inkscape (not only on Windows). It was suggested earlier to lower the quality, that's a workaround, you are supposed to turn them up again then the graphics are done for the final result.
Other workarounds include toggling various display modes (no filters, outline) during the editing process and go back to normal when done.
Another way is to keep various elements in their own layers and toggle the visibility of those layers on and off, you make them visible only when you need them: an invisible layer does not need to be redrawn and will not speed down the application.
Unfortunately, there is no Free software alternative to Inkscape (there are some other FOSS vector editors, but feature-wise they are inferior), so you will have to rely on workarounds.
-- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
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On 31-08-12 12:01, Dennis Melling wrote:
Hi
That is great information, I will look into these work arounds but I am still very disappointed with Inkscape. After reading lots of positives about the program I thought that it would be very good. When I reach my final image with the filter effects applied I can no longer edit anything and converting to a bitmap image is like crashing your head into a brick wall:(
Sad to hear you're having so much trouble. Have you tried the current development version (0.49)? It has a different renderer and can be quite a bit faster in certain cases (among other things, the cache has been improved). There are "nightly" builds available from the site (although the link seems to be down at the moment, if you have trouble accessing it, feel free to ask on the list for a build and I or someone else with Windows will provide it).
If you still have problems with the development version, I'd love to see an example of a really bad performing image, to see where the problem lies.
I am using 0.48 but will check out 0.49, when possible.
I have attached the image that I am currently having problems with. I completed the image and then realised that I had misplaced a layer and the nose and mouth needed extra work. That is when the trouble started!
The image is so badly corrupted because I down graded the filters and now can no longer return to the original settings............
I have found that I can avoid the Inkscape 'export to bitmap' by saving a copy to Gimp and then exporting from there. This is lightning fast :)
I checked the 0.49x download site and it says that there aren't any download files available?
Dennis
On 31 August 2012 14:01, Jasper van de Gronde <th.v.d.gronde@...226...>wrote:
On 31-08-12 12:01, Dennis Melling wrote:
Hi
That is great information, I will look into these work arounds but I am still very disappointed with Inkscape. After reading lots of positives about the program I thought that it would be very good. When I reach my final image with the filter effects applied I can no longer edit anything and converting to a bitmap image is like crashing your head into a brick wall:(
Sad to hear you're having so much trouble. Have you tried the current development version (0.49)? It has a different renderer and can be quite a bit faster in certain cases (among other things, the cache has been improved). There are "nightly" builds available from the site (although the link seems to be down at the moment, if you have trouble accessing it, feel free to ask on the list for a build and I or someone else with Windows will provide it).
If you still have problems with the development version, I'd love to see an example of a really bad performing image, to see where the problem lies.
Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
Just read:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/733966
Very interesting
Dennis
On 31 August 2012 15:33, Dennis Melling <dennismelling.rom@...155...> wrote:
I am using 0.48 but will check out 0.49, when possible.
I have attached the image that I am currently having problems with. I completed the image and then realised that I had misplaced a layer and the nose and mouth needed extra work. That is when the trouble started!
The image is so badly corrupted because I down graded the filters and now can no longer return to the original settings............
I have found that I can avoid the Inkscape 'export to bitmap' by saving a copy to Gimp and then exporting from there. This is lightning fast :)
I checked the 0.49x download site and it says that there aren't any download files available?
Dennis
On 31 August 2012 14:01, Jasper van de Gronde <th.v.d.gronde@...226...>wrote:
On 31-08-12 12:01, Dennis Melling wrote:
Hi
That is great information, I will look into these work arounds but I am still very disappointed with Inkscape. After reading lots of positives about the program I thought that it would be very good. When I reach my final image with the filter effects applied I can no longer edit anything and converting to a bitmap image is like crashing your head into a brick wall:(
Sad to hear you're having so much trouble. Have you tried the current development version (0.49)? It has a different renderer and can be quite a bit faster in certain cases (among other things, the cache has been improved). There are "nightly" builds available from the site (although the link seems to be down at the moment, if you have trouble accessing it, feel free to ask on the list for a build and I or someone else with Windows will provide it).
If you still have problems with the development version, I'd love to see an example of a really bad performing image, to see where the problem lies.
Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
On 2012-08-31 12:01, Dennis Melling wrote:
When I reach my final image with the filter effects applied I can no longer edit anything and converting to a bitmap image is like crashing your head into a brick wall:(
On my computer, it took 25 seconds to convert your drawing to 600 DPI bitmap (907*789) with Inkscape 0.48 on Linux. Doing the same with GIMP 2.8 took 42 seconds.
I have 2 GB RAM. The bottleneck is not the amount of RAM, it is the speed of the CPU.
My maximum clock speed is 1795MHz ???
On 1 September 2012 12:41, Mikael Ståldal <mikael@...2778...> wrote:
On 2012-08-31 12:01, Dennis Melling wrote:
When I reach my final image with the filter effects applied I can no longer edit anything and converting to a bitmap image is like crashing your head into a brick wall:(
On my computer, it took 25 seconds to convert your drawing to 600 DPI bitmap (907*789) with Inkscape 0.48 on Linux. Doing the same with GIMP 2.8 took 42 seconds.
I have 2 GB RAM. The bottleneck is not the amount of RAM, it is the speed of the CPU.
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On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Dennis Melling <dennismelling.rom@...155...> wrote:
Thank you Chris
I will check out the url.
I have just completed a very complex image and have tried grouping several areas and applying filters to small areas as I go but, as soon as I apply a filter, Inkscape just grinds to a halt (alternating between open and not responding every second).
I have used Gimp for several years and with my 8GB RAM I just fly through an image but Inkscape is a terrible disappointment :(
Dennis
Really sad commentary that you blame Inkscape. The general experience with Inkscape here and elsewhere is that it is outstanding. You might want to look at the Windows ecosystem for why you are having problems.
As far as a recommendation...Adobe Illustrator. It is the premier svg editor for the Windows environment. Absolutely the best thing for you given your context.
Carl
On 30 August 2012 22:22, Chris Tooley <euxneks@...155...> wrote:
Hi,
This URL may yield some results for you: http://alternativeto.net/software/inkscape/?platform=windows
Perhaps another option, though, would be to try out a nightly build of inkscape for windows?
I've also found that after I group complicated objects together, inkscape speeds up quite a bit - maybe it's a workaround for you as well?
-Chris
On 2012-08-30, at 7:10 AM, Dennis Melling <dennismelling.rom@...155...> wrote:
I have a recent laptop with Windows 7, 64 bit and 8GB of RAM. If I use any kind of effects on inkscape I can forget using inkscape for the day because the speed is so slow it takes a day for any movement to appear on the screen. Again trying to export to bitmap is impossible. If I don't use any effects then the speed is reasonable. I like what Inkscape is intended to do but does anyone know of a similar open source program that will work on Windows 7??
Dennis
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I have never had such problems before on any program that I have used on the internet ???
Dennis
On 31 August 2012 16:48, Carl Symons <carlsymons@...155...> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Dennis Melling <dennismelling.rom@...155...> wrote:
Thank you Chris
I will check out the url.
I have just completed a very complex image and have tried grouping
several
areas and applying filters to small areas as I go but, as soon as I
apply a
filter, Inkscape just grinds to a halt (alternating between open and not responding every second).
I have used Gimp for several years and with my 8GB RAM I just fly
through an
image but Inkscape is a terrible disappointment :(
Dennis
Really sad commentary that you blame Inkscape. The general experience with Inkscape here and elsewhere is that it is outstanding. You might want to look at the Windows ecosystem for why you are having problems.
As far as a recommendation...Adobe Illustrator. It is the premier svg editor for the Windows environment. Absolutely the best thing for you given your context.
Carl
On 30 August 2012 22:22, Chris Tooley <euxneks@...155...> wrote:
Hi,
This URL may yield some results for you: http://alternativeto.net/software/inkscape/?platform=windows
Perhaps another option, though, would be to try out a nightly build of inkscape for windows?
I've also found that after I group complicated objects together,
inkscape
speeds up quite a bit - maybe it's a workaround for you as well?
-Chris
On 2012-08-30, at 7:10 AM, Dennis Melling <dennismelling.rom@...155...> wrote:
I have a recent laptop with Windows 7, 64 bit and 8GB of RAM. If I use any kind of effects on inkscape I can forget using inkscape for the day because the speed is so slow it takes a day for any movement to appear on the screen. Again trying to export to bitmap is impossible. If I don't use any effects then the speed is reasonable. I like what Inkscape is intended to do but does anyone know of a similar open source program that will work on Windows 7??
Dennis
Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
malware
threats.
http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___________________...
Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
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Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
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It depends of course on the complexity of your drawings. What about replacing Windows 7 with Linux? I use Inkscape and Linux and they work very well together. I have had no trouble using Netscape and filters. Netscape is a wonderful program. I switched it after using Adobe illustrator.
Graheme
On 30 Aug 2012, at 15:10, Dennis Melling wrote:
I have a recent laptop with Windows 7, 64 bit and 8GB of RAM. If I use any kind of effects on inkscape I can forget using inkscape for the day because the speed is so slow it takes a day for any movement to appear on the screen. Again trying to export to bitmap is impossible. If I don't use any effects then the speed is reasonable. I like what Inkscape is intended to do but does anyone know of a similar open source program that will work on Windows 7??
Dennis
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I used Firefox on my computer until Chrome came along. The problem I had with Firefox is that, when scrolling, the page moved in jerks.
Dennis
On 31 August 2012 16:40, Felix E. Klee <felix.klee@...2933...> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Quick Silver <quicksilvercarrier@...660...> wrote:
Netscape is a wonderful program.
Consider upgrading to Firefox. It has native SVG support. ;-)
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I have just installed Xubuntu upon recommendation but now I have the problem of how do I get my WiFi to work.......
Dennis
On 31 August 2012 16:35, Quick Silver <quicksilvercarrier@...660...>wrote:
It depends of course on the complexity of your drawings. What about replacing Windows 7 with Linux? I use Inkscape and Linux and they work very well together. I have had no trouble using Netscape and filters. Netscape is a wonderful program. I switched it after using Adobe illustrator.
Graheme
On 30 Aug 2012, at 15:10, Dennis Melling wrote:
I have a recent laptop with Windows 7, 64 bit and 8GB of RAM. If I use any kind of effects on inkscape I can forget using inkscape for the day because the speed is so slow it takes a day for any movement to appear on the screen. Again trying to export to bitmap is impossible. If I don't use any effects then the speed is reasonable. I like what Inkscape is intended to do but does anyone know of a similar open source program that will work on Windows 7??
Dennis
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From: Quick Silver [mailto:quicksilvercarrier@...660...] Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 2:36 PM To: Inkscape User Community Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] Alternative to Inkscape for Windows 7
It depends of course on the complexity of your drawings.
Is this the real cause of your trouble?
The size of you SVG is massive compared to most I have produced and seen.
It is almost bitmap size!
I'm not sure how you produced this svg, but it is generating a ton of bits ;-)
I'm sure this doesn't help.
Paul
PS Since the code is written to be portable, I doubt if the OS makes much difference.
Browsers may vary a bit, but by any standards your svg loads very slowly. --- Paul A. Bristow, Prizet Farmhouse, Kendal LA8 8AB UK +44 1539 561830 07714330204 pbristow@...2746...
running Inkscape development build 11604 on Windows XP, I can confirm that the response of Inkscape to this particular file is indeed very slow. However, the export bitmap (to png) command appears to be working reasonably well. Attached is the result I got at 600 dpi. This took about 10 seconds to generate the file. By comparison, the export bitmap on Inkscape 0.48.3.1 was so slow as to be unuseable. Would you be willing to try a recent development build, available at skydrive: https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=09706d11303fa52a&id=9706D11303FA52A%21217
hth, Alvin Penner http://inkscape.13.n6.nabble.com/file/n4965130/2ANIME-GIRL.png 2ANIME-GIRL.png
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I downloaded 11604 and extracted with 7Z to the same folder but, Windows said that it couldn't use this file.
Could you tell me where the 1104 should be extracted to or how I can use use the extraction that I have in my downloads folder ?
Dennis
On 1 September 2012 00:43, alvinpenner <penner@...2467...> wrote:
running Inkscape development build 11604 on Windows XP, I can confirmthat the response of Inkscape to this particular file is indeed very slow. However, the export bitmap (to png) command appears to be working reasonably well. Attached is the result I got at 600 dpi. This took about 10 seconds to generate the file. By comparison, the export bitmap on Inkscape 0.48.3.1 was so slow as to be unuseable. Would you be willing to try a recent development build, available at skydrive: https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=09706d11303fa52a&id=9706D11303FA52A%21217
hth, Alvin Penner http://inkscape.13.n6.nabble.com/file/n4965130/2ANIME-GIRL.png 2ANIME-GIRL.png
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on the skydrive website, there are two files called inkscape_r11604. you need only the one called 201208132044.7z. You do not need the one that ends in dbg.7z. The file that you download should be about 33 Mb. The procedure that I normally use is to unzip it in such a way that it directly overwrites the current copy that I already have. However, you could also create a new directory and put it in there. If there are error messages when you run it, could you report them here?
hth, Alvin
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I downloaded and unzipped the 44.7z file and overwrote it over my existing 0.48 (in the download folder). The program then uninstalled my existing 0.48 and reinstalled what I thought was the 44.7z but on opening my Inkscape it shows that it is still the 0.48. I am not an expert at computering and so 'where did I go wrong' ?
Dennis
On 1 September 2012 14:03, alvinpenner <penner@...2467...> wrote:
on the skydrive website, there are two files called inkscape_r11604. you need only the one called 201208132044.7z. You do not need the one that ends in dbg.7z. The file that you download should be about 33 Mb. The procedure that I normally use is to unzip it in such a way that it directly overwrites the current copy that I already have. However, you could also create a new directory and put it in there. If there are error messages when you run it, could you report them here?
hth, Alvin
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sorry, I guess I left out a number of steps. The 7z file that you will get from this download is not a normal installation package, so you will not be able to install it by double-clicking on it. It is a zipped version of all the files in the Inkscape directory and they need to be unzipped and copied on top of what you currently have. You will need to install the 7-zip File Manager, available from www.7-zip.org. Then open the File Manager, navigate to the directory where your 7z file is, open the 7z file, and click on extract. Then you can either overwrite your current Inkscape files or you may want to create a new directory and put the new files into it to keep your old version of Inkscape. This will not install Inkscape, it will simply copy the new files into this directory, so you may need to create a new shortcut to point to the new location.
hth, Alvin
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???
I now have the file unpacked and standing by in my 7z page which points to it being located at:
C:\Users\Dennis Melling\Downloads\inkscape_r11604-201208132044.7z\inkscape\
when I look in my downloads folder it doesn't contain a file ending in 7z inkscape
how do I move this unpacked file from the 7z software into my inkscape program
I will overwrite my current 0.48 because I can always reinstall if I completely mess it up.
Dennis
On 1 September 2012 15:49, alvinpenner <penner@...2467...> wrote:
sorry, I guess I left out a number of steps. The 7z file that you willget from this download is not a normal installation package, so you will not be able to install it by double-clicking on it. It is a zipped version of all the files in the Inkscape directory and they need to be unzipped and copied on top of what you currently have. You will need to install the 7-zip File Manager, available from www.7-zip.org. Then open the File Manager, navigate to the directory where your 7z file is, open the 7z file, and click on extract. Then you can either overwrite your current Inkscape files or you may want to create a new directory and put the new files into it to keep your old version of Inkscape. This will not install Inkscape, it will simply copy the new files into this directory, so you may need to create a new shortcut to point to the new location.
hth, Alvin
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I found an unpacked 11604 file without the suffix and copied and pasted this into my programs Inkscape and it seemed to be loading over it but when I again opened my 0.48 it was still 0.48
On 1 September 2012 16:24, Dennis Melling <dennismelling.rom@...155...>wrote:
???
I now have the file unpacked and standing by in my 7z page which points to it being located at:
C:\Users\Dennis Melling\Downloads\inkscape_r11604-201208132044.7z\inkscape\
when I look in my downloads folder it doesn't contain a file ending in 7z inkscape
how do I move this unpacked file from the 7z software into my inkscape program
I will overwrite my current 0.48 because I can always reinstall if I completely mess it up.
Dennis
On 1 September 2012 15:49, alvinpenner <penner@...2467...> wrote:
sorry, I guess I left out a number of steps. The 7z file that you willget from this download is not a normal installation package, so you will not be able to install it by double-clicking on it. It is a zipped version of all the files in the Inkscape directory and they need to be unzipped and copied on top of what you currently have. You will need to install the 7-zip File Manager, available from www.7-zip.org. Then open the File Manager, navigate to the directory where your 7z file is, open the 7z file, and click on extract. Then you can either overwrite your current Inkscape files or you may want to create a new directory and put the new files into it to keep your old version of Inkscape. This will not install Inkscape, it will simply copy the new files into this directory, so you may need to create a new shortcut to point to the new location.
hth, Alvin
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yes the unpacked file is sitting in my original inkscape 0.48 area but doesn't seem to be doing anything??
On 1 September 2012 16:31, Dennis Melling <dennismelling.rom@...155...>wrote:
I found an unpacked 11604 file without the suffix and copied and pasted this into my programs Inkscape and it seemed to be loading over it but when I again opened my 0.48 it was still 0.48
On 1 September 2012 16:24, Dennis Melling <dennismelling.rom@...155...>wrote:
???
I now have the file unpacked and standing by in my 7z page which points to it being located at:
C:\Users\Dennis Melling\Downloads\inkscape_r11604-201208132044.7z\inkscape\
when I look in my downloads folder it doesn't contain a file ending in 7z inkscape
how do I move this unpacked file from the 7z software into my inkscape program
I will overwrite my current 0.48 because I can always reinstall if I completely mess it up.
Dennis
On 1 September 2012 15:49, alvinpenner <penner@...2467...> wrote:
sorry, I guess I left out a number of steps. The 7z file that youwill get from this download is not a normal installation package, so you will not be able to install it by double-clicking on it. It is a zipped version of all the files in the Inkscape directory and they need to be unzipped and copied on top of what you currently have. You will need to install the 7-zip File Manager, available from www.7-zip.org. Then open the File Manager, navigate to the directory where your 7z file is, open the 7z file, and click on extract. Then you can either overwrite your current Inkscape files or you may want to create a new directory and put the new files into it to keep your old version of Inkscape. This will not install Inkscape, it will simply copy the new files into this directory, so you may need to create a new shortcut to point to the new location.
hth, Alvin
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it is not clear to me how you unpacked it. Did you use 7-zip to unpack it, or did Windows automatically start up a unzip procedure?
If you have a folder called \inkscape_r11604-201208132044.7z\inkscape\ then this folder should contain an executable file called Inkscape.exe. Can you double-click on it to start it up?
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perhaps one more question, when you say that you have a folder called:
C:\Users\Dennis Melling\Downloads\inkscape_r11604-201208132044.7z\inkscape\
are you viewing this folder from Windows Explorer or are you viewing this from inside 7-zip File Manager?
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the one with the suffix is in the 7z window and this is the one that I double clicked.
The one in the downloads folder (the one I transfered to the 0.48 program) does not have the inkscape suffix.
On 1 September 2012 16:42, alvinpenner <penner@...2467...> wrote:
perhaps one more question, when you say that you have a folder called:
C:\Users\Dennis Melling\Downloads\inkscape_r11604-201208132044.7z\inkscape\
are you viewing this folder from Windows Explorer or are you viewing this from inside 7-zip File Manager?
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I do have the Magic file, that is sitting on the 7z page as well
On 1 September 2012 16:55, Dennis Melling <dennismelling.rom@...155...>wrote:
the one with the suffix is in the 7z window and this is the one that I double clicked.
The one in the downloads folder (the one I transfered to the 0.48 program) does not have the inkscape suffix.
On 1 September 2012 16:42, alvinpenner <penner@...2467...> wrote:
perhaps one more question, when you say that you have a folder called:
C:\Users\Dennis Melling\Downloads\inkscape_r11604-201208132044.7z\inkscape\
are you viewing this folder from Windows Explorer or are you viewing this from inside 7-zip File Manager?
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I used 7z to open the zip and the opened file is still sitting on the 7z screen, including Inkscape.exe which I double clicked and got: can't start because libMagick++-3.dll is missing from your computer.............
I think I should wait for the official 0.49 is released
Dennis
On 1 September 2012 16:36, alvinpenner <penner@...2467...> wrote:
it is not clear to me how you unpacked it. Did you use 7-zip to unpack it, or did Windows automatically start up a unzip procedure?
If you have a folder called \inkscape_r11604-201208132044.7z\inkscape\ then this folder should contain an executable file called Inkscape.exe. Can you double-click on it to start it up?
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I used 7z to open the zip and the opened file is still sitting on the 7z
screen, including Inkscape.exe which I double
clicked and got: can't start because libMagick++-3.dll is missing from your computer.............
- well, that is very strange, I just unloaded and ran the 7-zip version on Windows 7 (32 bit) and it started up with no problem - just to confirm, did you use the Extract button?, did you get warnings telling you that you were overwriting existing files? - which directory did you extract to?
- just for future reference, here is the procedure I normally use, assuming I wish to overwrite my current version.
I am going to assume that you have been viewing this from inside 7-zip File Manager and that you have not yet hit the Extract button. Then the procedure that I would use is as follows: - close everything - start up 7-zip File Manager - navigate to the 7z file called inkscape_r11604-201208132044.7z - perform a single-click on this file just to highlight it, not to open it - click on the Extract button to open up a file browser window - navigate to the location where you want to put these files. - be aware of the fact that this extraction procedure will automatically create a sub-directory called Inkscape when you extract it - so for example, if you choose the directory C:\Program Files\ to extract into, then you will end up with a folder called C:\Program Files\Inkscape\ and inside this folder will be the executable called Inkscape.exe - then click OK and you will get various warnings that you are overwriting existing files.
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Don't hold your breath but I will start the process all over again :)
On 1 September 2012 17:13, alvinpenner <penner@...2467...> wrote:
I used 7z to open the zip and the opened file is still sitting on the
7z screen, including Inkscape.exe which I double
clicked and got: can't start because libMagick++-3.dll is missing from your computer.............
- well, that is very strange, I just unloaded and ran the 7-zip version on
Windows 7 (32 bit) and it started up with no problem
- just to confirm, did you use the Extract button?, did you get warnings
telling you that you were overwriting existing files?
which directory did you extract to?
just for future reference, here is the procedure I normally use, assuming
I wish to overwrite my current version.
I am going to assume that you have been viewing this from inside 7-zip File Manager and that you have not yet hit the Extract button. Then the procedure that I would use is as follows:
- close everything
- start up 7-zip File Manager
- navigate to the 7z file called inkscape_r11604-201208132044.7z
- perform a single-click on this file just to highlight it, not to open it
- click on the Extract button to open up a file browser window
- navigate to the location where you want to put these files.
- be aware of the fact that this extraction procedure will automatically
create a sub-directory called Inkscape when you extract it
- so for example, if you choose the directory C:\Program Files\ to extract
into, then you will end up with a folder called C:\Program Files\Inkscape\ and inside this folder will be the executable called Inkscape.exe
- then click OK and you will get various warnings that you are overwriting
existing files.
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I cannot find any file that contains an exe!!!
On 1 September 2012 17:13, alvinpenner <penner@...2467...> wrote:
I used 7z to open the zip and the opened file is still sitting on the
7z screen, including Inkscape.exe which I double
clicked and got: can't start because libMagick++-3.dll is missing from your computer.............
- well, that is very strange, I just unloaded and ran the 7-zip version on
Windows 7 (32 bit) and it started up with no problem
- just to confirm, did you use the Extract button?, did you get warnings
telling you that you were overwriting existing files?
which directory did you extract to?
just for future reference, here is the procedure I normally use, assuming
I wish to overwrite my current version.
I am going to assume that you have been viewing this from inside 7-zip File Manager and that you have not yet hit the Extract button. Then the procedure that I would use is as follows:
- close everything
- start up 7-zip File Manager
- navigate to the 7z file called inkscape_r11604-201208132044.7z
- perform a single-click on this file just to highlight it, not to open it
- click on the Extract button to open up a file browser window
- navigate to the location where you want to put these files.
- be aware of the fact that this extraction procedure will automatically
create a sub-directory called Inkscape when you extract it
- so for example, if you choose the directory C:\Program Files\ to extract
into, then you will end up with a folder called C:\Program Files\Inkscape\ and inside this folder will be the executable called Inkscape.exe
- then click OK and you will get various warnings that you are overwriting
existing files.
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it is possible that on your machine the .exe extension may be hidden by default, do your .exe files normally show .exe at the end in Windows Explorer?
- could you describe the steps you have taken so far, for example, did you hit Extract, which directory did you extract to, did you get warnings that you were overwriting files, can you confirm that you have new files with new dates in them, like Aug 13?
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I started from scratch and followed your instructions as written but couldn't find this exe file.
As I said previously the exe file does appear if I double click the 11604 in the 7z window but I get the magic pop-up when I click on this. The exe file is 13082012.
When I clicked extract in the 7z window and then directed the file to my local disc C/program(x86) I had lots of error messages. The result is a file cover entry in my inkscape program folder with the 11604 number but when I open this file it does not contain the exe file. The file name is inkscape_r11604-201208132044
On 1 September 2012 18:01, alvinpenner <penner@...2467...> wrote:
it is possible that on your machine the .exe extension may be hidden by default, do your .exe files normally show .exe at the end in Windows Explorer?
- could you describe the steps you have taken so far, for example, did you
hit Extract, which directory did you extract to, did you get warnings that you were overwriting files, can you confirm that you have new files with new dates in them, like Aug 13?
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well, I am at a loss. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the user interface for 7-zip has changed. I am using 7-zip version 4.57. other than that, all I can think of is to double-check a few steps. - for example, when you are in 7-zip and you select the file inkscape_r11604.7z it is important that you do a single click, not a double-click. - then hit Extract - then browse to a new location, such as \Program Files\ - in order to prevent overwriting old files you may want to browse to a subdirectory of your username and extract it there. This way you will not get any warning messages saying that you are overwriting files, and you also will not encounter any security problems caused by writing to a system directory. - then note that you will get a new sub-directory called Inkscape and the Inkscape executable file will be inside this subdirectory.
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I am using 9.20.
I will carry on trying and will let you know how I get on. Many, many thanks for your help and patience :)
Best wishes Dennis
On 1 September 2012 19:12, alvinpenner <penner@...2467...> wrote:
well, I am at a loss. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the user interface for 7-zip has changed. I am using 7-zip version 4.57. other than that, all I can think of is to double-check a few steps.
- for example, when you are in 7-zip and you select the file
inkscape_r11604.7z it is important that you do a single click, not a double-click.
- then hit Extract
- then browse to a new location, such as \Program Files\
- in order to prevent overwriting old files you may want to browse to a
subdirectory of your username and extract it there. This way you will not get any warning messages saying that you are overwriting files, and you also will not encounter any security problems caused by writing to a system directory.
- then note that you will get a new sub-directory called Inkscape and the
Inkscape executable file will be inside this subdirectory.
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On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Dennis Melling <dennismelling.rom@...155...>wrote:
I am using 9.20.
I will carry on trying and will let you know how I get on. Many, many thanks for your help and patience :)
Dennis,
The sample SVG you sent certainly causes inkscape to struggle on my machine. It's probably the heaviest SVG file I've seen to date. Filters are certainly the issue you are having. Whilst editing the file, you probably want to turn these off using:
View -> Display Mode -> No Filters.
Obviously you're losing a lot of detail there when editing like this, but the program is very fast with your file in this mode.
Regards, Kevin
Hello Alvin
I have tried, in various ways and using various sub directories to discover the exe file but, in each case I didn't see an exe file but a normal inkscape logo. When I click on this it takes me to the normal 0.48 screen.
I am not on your inkscape list as such because I was directed to use email when I tried to apply a post and so perhaps you can tell me how I can now close this post ?
Dennis
On 1 September 2012 19:12, alvinpenner <penner@...2467...> wrote:
well, I am at a loss. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the user interface for 7-zip has changed. I am using 7-zip version 4.57. other than that, all I can think of is to double-check a few steps.
- for example, when you are in 7-zip and you select the file
inkscape_r11604.7z it is important that you do a single click, not a double-click.
- then hit Extract
- then browse to a new location, such as \Program Files\
- in order to prevent overwriting old files you may want to browse to a
subdirectory of your username and extract it there. This way you will not get any warning messages saying that you are overwriting files, and you also will not encounter any security problems caused by writing to a system directory.
- then note that you will get a new sub-directory called Inkscape and the
Inkscape executable file will be inside this subdirectory.
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Hello Dennis, - as for this thread, it will come to a natural end once people stop contributing to it. - as for the .exe file, it is possible that your Windows may be set not to display the .exe extension. In Windows Explorer. the Inkscape file will show itself as either Inkscape or Inkscape.exe depending on your folder settings. The folder settings can be checked in Windows Explorer at the menu item Organize->Folder and Search Options->View->Hide extensions for known file types. This determines whether or not you will see .exe in the file listing. - as for the Inkscape version you are running, go to the Inkscape menu item Help->About Inkscape. The latest stable release will say 'Inkscape 0.48.3.1 r9886'. A more recent development build, such as you would get from a 7z download, will say 'Inkscape 0.48 + devel r11604'
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Thank you Alvin
Regards Dennis
On 2 September 2012 14:17, alvinpenner <penner@...2467...> wrote:
Hello Dennis,
- as for this thread, it will come to a natural end once people stop
contributing to it.
- as for the .exe file, it is possible that your Windows may be set not to
display the .exe extension. In Windows Explorer. the Inkscape file will show itself as either Inkscape or Inkscape.exe depending on your folder settings. The folder settings can be checked in Windows Explorer at the menu item Organize->Folder and Search Options->View->Hide extensions for known file types. This determines whether or not you will see .exe in the file listing.
- as for the Inkscape version you are running, go to the Inkscape menu item
Help->About Inkscape. The latest stable release will say 'Inkscape 0.48.3.1 r9886'. A more recent development build, such as you would get from a 7z download, will say 'Inkscape 0.48 + devel r11604'
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Boom, Boom :)
Extensions were on hide............
I now have 0.48 + devel r11604 installed - whoopee :):)
INCREDIBLE
7z doesn't help, it only shows inscape_r11 (no other numbers)
Thank you very much Alvin - sorry to be so thick
Regards Dennis
On 2 September 2012 14:17, alvinpenner <penner@...2467...> wrote:
Hello Dennis,
- as for this thread, it will come to a natural end once people stop
contributing to it.
- as for the .exe file, it is possible that your Windows may be set not to
display the .exe extension. In Windows Explorer. the Inkscape file will show itself as either Inkscape or Inkscape.exe depending on your folder settings. The folder settings can be checked in Windows Explorer at the menu item Organize->Folder and Search Options->View->Hide extensions for known file types. This determines whether or not you will see .exe in the file listing.
- as for the Inkscape version you are running, go to the Inkscape menu item
Help->About Inkscape. The latest stable release will say 'Inkscape 0.48.3.1 r9886'. A more recent development build, such as you would get from a 7z download, will say 'Inkscape 0.48 + devel r11604'
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I am working on a drawing of a native American girl, have just put the combined lighting filter on this and the image will move around the page pretty fast. Maybe this is what I have been waiting for :):)
Dennis
On 2 September 2012 16:00, Dennis Melling <dennismelling.rom@...155...>wrote:
Boom, Boom :)
Extensions were on hide............
I now have 0.48 + devel r11604 installed - whoopee :):)
INCREDIBLE
7z doesn't help, it only shows inscape_r11 (no other numbers)
Thank you very much Alvin - sorry to be so thick
Regards Dennis
On 2 September 2012 14:17, alvinpenner <penner@...2467...> wrote:
Hello Dennis,
- as for this thread, it will come to a natural end once people stop
contributing to it.
- as for the .exe file, it is possible that your Windows may be set not to
display the .exe extension. In Windows Explorer. the Inkscape file will show itself as either Inkscape or Inkscape.exe depending on your folder settings. The folder settings can be checked in Windows Explorer at the menu item Organize->Folder and Search Options->View->Hide extensions for known file types. This determines whether or not you will see .exe in the file listing.
- as for the Inkscape version you are running, go to the Inkscape menu
item Help->About Inkscape. The latest stable release will say 'Inkscape 0.48.3.1 r9886'. A more recent development build, such as you would get from a 7z download, will say 'Inkscape 0.48 + devel r11604'
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This is my latest image, on the latest development of inkscape, of a native indian girl on a PD background.
Dennis
On 3 September 2012 02:08, Chris Tooley <euxneks@...155...> wrote:
Just thought I would pipe in here and say we've all been there at one point or another :) Good luck with future drawings!
On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 6:00 AM, Dennis Melling <dennismelling.rom@...155...> wrote:
[...] sorry to be so thick
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Oops, I dropped down from 23MB so that I could send it via email on my WiFi stick. My internet speed is 0.34mbps
Dennis
On 3 September 2012 10:08, donn <donn.ingle@...155...> wrote:
This is my latest image
Okay, I endured one large attachment, but the second is too much. Please don't do this, not all of us have huge bandwidth.
If you must attach an image at *least* drop it down in size to under 200kb.
\d
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Dennis, One advice. You have a Gmail account, right?. Why don't you save the file to your GoogleDrive, share the file and then email the link to that file? Ciao, Gian
Op 03 sep 2012 om 11:26 uur schreef Dennis Melling <dennismelling.rom@...2107...5...>:
Oops, I dropped down from 23MB so that I could send it via email on my WiFi stick. My internet speed is 0.34mbps
Dennis
On 3 September 2012 10:08, donn <donn.ingle@...155...> wrote:
This is my latest image
Okay, I endured one large attachment, but the second is too much. Please don't do this, not all of us have huge bandwidth.
If you must attach an image at *least* drop it down in size to under 200kb.
\d
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OK I will see if I can find what my GoogleDrive is Dennis
On 3 September 2012 12:37, Gianvittorio Zandona <gianvittorio@...2962...> wrote:
Dennis, One advice. You have a Gmail account, right?. Why don't you save the file to your GoogleDrive, share the file and then email the link to that file? Ciao, Gian
Op 03 sep 2012 om 11:26 uur schreef Dennis Melling < dennismelling.rom@...155...>:
Oops, I dropped down from 23MB so that I could send it via email on my WiFi stick. My internet speed is 0.34mbps
Dennis
On 3 September 2012 10:08, donn <donn.ingle@...155...> wrote:
This is my latest image
Okay, I endured one large attachment, but the second is too much. Please don't do this, not all of us have huge bandwidth.
If you must attach an image at *least* drop it down in size to under 200kb.
\d
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On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 12:43:43 +0300 Dennis Melling <dennismelling.rom@...155...> wrote:
OK I will see if I can find what my GoogleDrive is
It should be here: https://drive.google.com/#my-drive
Dennis,
Going back to the Sorceress image it's definitely the filters that are slowing it down. It might help to understand how filters work in the SVG world, as it makes it easier to understand how the various workarounds that people have suggested will help.
Filters are essentially bitmaps generated by performing a series of mathematical operations on each pixel in the rendered image. The more pixels that need to be rendered, the more maths there is to do, and the slower the rendering will be. Rendering to a bitmap doesn't just mean exporting to PNG though; every time Inkscape draws to the screen it has to render to a bitmap.
If your filtered object takes up (say) 50 pixels in the rendered image, it can be drawn a lot faster than if it takes up 500 pixels, as there's only a tenth of the pixels to calculate. That leads to my first suggestions:
1) Zooming out will make things redraw faster, as will reducing the window size (I prefer to use a smaller window with undocked palettes for this reason, rather than running Inkscape full-screen). Try not to zoom in any further than you have to.
1a) When you do export to bitmap, higher DPI settings will lead to more pixels, more calculations and a longer export time. Try to keep the DPI and the export area down to the smallest you can get away with.
If there is any transparency involved then Inkscape has to render the object(s) below, then render the objects above, then combine the two. So our 500 pixel object, as soon as transparency is added, will result in at least 1000 pixels being calculated and combined. Even if the opacity of your objects is at 100%, many filters introduce some transparency - blurs being the most obvious. Now consider many blurred and translucent objects stacked on top of each other - that's a lot of maths to do.
That's why it can be beneficial to split your image into layers. Hiding layers means that they don't have to be calculated, and don't have to be merged with other objects, greatly reducing the amount of maths needed to re-draw the image. Bear in mind that you can also have sub-layers (and sub-sub-layers...) which can make it easier to manage drawings with lots of objects in.
2) Split your drawing into layers and hide as many as you can if performance is a problem.
Sometimes you might want to use the filtered version of an object for reference, but don't really need to have Inkscape re-calculating it all the time. Select the object(s) in question, and use Edit > Create A Bitmap Copy to generate a bitmap with the filters "fixed". It may take a while to create the bitmap, but once done it will be a lot faster to render than the original objects. If I need to do this I do it for a whole layer of objects, so that I can then hide the layer, and put the bitmap onto the layer I'm actually working on.
3) Use bitmaps to let you "snapshot" your filtered objects for reference, then hide the originals.
Of course, the fastest option is simply not to do all the maths. If you don't need to see the filtered version to make an edit, then don't make Inkscape draw it. My final suggestion:
4) Use View > Display Mode to turn off filters as much as you can.
When you use filters or effects in The GIMP, the result is immediately fixed. If changes the colour of some pixels, then its job is done. The filter doesn't need to be re-calculated when you zoom in, but you also can't alter its parameters later on. Inkscape filters are "live" and get re-calculated for every pixel for every zoom, pan or change in the image. They are performing magnitudes more calculations than filters in The GIMP. The trick is to know and understand that difference, and try to structure your image and workflow so that you minimise the number of calculations it has to perform at any given time.
I hope that helps a little.
Mark
On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 13:37:16 +0200, Lars Behrens said:
Mark Crutch schrieb:
[a lot of helpful stuff]
I hope that helps a little.
Amen. That is a really, really good explanation.
+1
Fantastic explanation and advice.
SteveT
Steve Litt * http://www.troubleshooters.com/ * http://twitter.com/stevelitt Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 6:30 PM, Mark Crutch <markc@...2744...> wrote:
Dennis,
Going back to the Sorceress image it's definitely the filters that are slowing it down. It might help to understand how filters work in the SVG world, as it makes it easier to understand how the various workarounds that people have suggested will help.
Filters are essentially bitmaps generated by performing a series of mathematical operations on each pixel in the rendered image. The more pixels that need to be rendered, the more maths there is to do, and the slower the rendering will be. Rendering to a bitmap doesn't just mean exporting to PNG though; every time Inkscape draws to the screen it has to render to a bitmap.
If your filtered object takes up (say) 50 pixels in the rendered image, it can be drawn a lot faster than if it takes up 500 pixels, as there's only a tenth of the pixels to calculate. That leads to my first suggestions:
I think inkscape's problem is it tries to render the whole image instead of only the visible part. That's why when we zoom in, the render process becomes increasingly slow.
I maybe wrong about how inkscape works here. That's just a guess work according to my experience.
Best Regards,
On 04-09-12 05:59, Auguste Pop wrote:
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 6:30 PM, Mark Crutch <markc@...2744...> wrote:
... Filters are essentially bitmaps generated by performing a series of mathematical operations on each pixel in the rendered image. The more pixels that need to be rendered, the more maths there is to do, and the slower the rendering will be. Rendering to a bitmap doesn't just mean exporting to PNG though; every time Inkscape draws to the screen it has to render to a bitmap. ...
I think inkscape's problem is it tries to render the whole image instead of only the visible part. That's why when we zoom in, the render process becomes increasingly slow.
I maybe wrong about how inkscape works here. That's just a guess work according to my experience.
In principle that's not how Inkscape does it, but there is a bit of truth in there (and that's a large part of the problem). It's always difficult to say for sure exactly why a program is slow until you've fixed it, but I'll give it a go none the less.
First off all, most of Inkscape's filters are quite fast... However, that is just when testing them in isolation, as in "give them an image to work on and measure how long it takes to process it". Unfortunately this is not the whole story. There are at least two problems that come up.
The first problem with Inkscape's filters is that Inkscape does NOT call them on the entire image. Instead, it only calls them on patches or slices (you may have noticed that Inkscape tends to update the screen one patch/slice at a time). The problem here is that many filters (like Gaussian blur) need "neighbouring" values. So suppose you have a 100x100 patch with Gaussian blur needing all values within a 100 pixels from the current one. Inkscape then renders a 300x300 patch for each 100x100 patch that is displayed (cropping the results). That means that Inkscape is essentially drawing the whole image 9 times!!! Obviously, as patches get larger this becomes less of a problem (the development version of Inkscape uses much larger patches/slices if I remember correctly).
The second problem is that if you have a lot of filter primitives in one filter they basically get executed in series. So first primitive one, then primitive two, etc. This needs a lot of intermediate buffers (not 100% sure that there isn't any reuse, but I doubt it), putting a lot of pressure on memory use. But also, it requires an enormous amount of memory bandwidth. I haven't delved into how much a problem this is, but it's likely that it contributes significantly to the processing time of filters.
The bad news is that the above is probably not going away any time soon. I am unaware of any existing system to deal with problem one (although I have some ideas for how it could be done), and problem two would essentially require a pretty fundamental rewrite of our code. A GPU version of our filtering code would help somewhat, but it's also not a panacea (and again requires some major coding).
Finally, the above is probably not the whole story, as some things are simply impossibly slow. That is why it is important to keep sending us examples of files that really render WAY too slow.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 4:59 AM, Auguste Pop <auguste@...155...> wrote:
I think inkscape's problem is it tries to render the whole image instead of only the visible part. That's why when we zoom in, the render process becomes increasingly slow.
I don't believe that is the case, but as Jasper mentioned, it does have to render more than is visible on screen.
Consider two objects right next to each other, both with Gaussian blur applied. If you zoom in on one of them you would expect to see the blur of the other object creeping in at the edge of the window, and mingling with the blur around the zoomed object. So Inkscape has to render at least part of the off-screen object, complete with blur, so that it can accurately display it bleeding into the window.
The real problem is the number of filtered pixels to be calculated. A box that's 100x100 pixels at one zoom level will be 50x50 or 500x500 at others. Because filters are (generally) bitmap operations that apply to each pixel in the filtered area (and beyond), more pixels means more calculations, means slower redraws.
Try this experiment:
1) Create a blurred object then zoom in far enough for the redraw to become noticeably slow. 2) Switch to outline view mode and full-screen Inkscape (F11). 3) Now switch back to normal view mode and time how long it takes to redraw. 4) Switch to outline mode again, and resize your window to be significantly smaller. 5) Switch back to normal view mode, and time how long it takes to redraw.
Note that we haven't changed the zoom at any point, so if Inkscape is drawing the whole image, the timings from (3) and (5) should be similar. In my tests they're not, with (5) being significantly faster. That's why I don't use Inkscape full-screen or even maximised, but prefer to work within a smaller window and use floating tool palettes rather than docked ones.
Mark
On 04-09-12 10:50, Mark Crutch wrote:
... The real problem is the number of filtered pixels to be calculated. A box that's 100x100 pixels at one zoom level will be 50x50 or 500x500 at others. Because filters are (generally) bitmap operations that apply to each pixel in the filtered area (and beyond), more pixels means more calculations, means slower redraws. ...
Never underestimate the power of a modern computer :) A typical PC is able to fill your screen MANY, MANY times per second in terms of sheer computational power. The only problem is getting the code to actually run at full speed... In Inkscape's case we're doing more work than necessary, and we're probably also not arranging the work in the most efficient manner. And it is unfortunately non-trivial to do better (not impossible, but it's definitely not a quick fix kind of thing).
(You are absolutely right that with something like blur you often need to draw more than what is visible though.)
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Jasper van de Gronde < th.v.d.gronde@...226...> wrote:
Never underestimate the power of a modern computer :) A typical PC is able to fill your screen MANY, MANY times per second in terms of sheer computational power.
Regardless of the speed of the machine, it will always be possible to create an image with enough heavy-duty filters to bog it down, even if Inkscape's algorithms were to be optimised to the max. I wasn't trying to suggest that a 500x500 pixel object will always slow a machine down, just pointing out that there's generally less work to do when it's zoomed out than when it's zoomed in. If an object has a filter that renders slowly - whether due to computational complexity, inefficiencies in Inkscape's code, or a slow machine - zooming out will likely cause it to render faster, and zooming in will likely cause it to render slower still.
Yes, a modern machine can fill the screen many, many times a second. But calculating what to fill it with can still be a multi-second operation, depending on the content.
Mark
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 6:23 AM, Dennis Melling < dennismelling.rom@...155...> wrote: This is my latest image, on the latest development of inkscape, of a native indian girl on a PD background. Dennis
Dennis,
You might find there's some other places better to share this or discuss your techniques.
Deviantart is a community site for sharing and reviewing images. It even include an inkscape section. http://www.deviantart.com/
The inkscape forum is a lot more active with end user questions. http://www.inkscapeforum.com/
Obviously this list is inkscape-user, and it's meant for end user discussion. The discussion and userbase here is a little bit more technical though, so you might find the forum more amenable.
Regards, Kevin
I know that the sorceress is extra complex (the most complex that I have ever done because previously the majority of images that I have done on Inkscape have been simple cartoon sketches of things like faces) and I produced it on many layers with each layer containing groups of separate items. Like the wings: each ellipse is separate and each wing is separate but grouped on 1 layer. The face is loads of layers but I have spent days trying to slightly move some of the items (like the mouth). Simple, unfiltered images, are no problem at all. I increased the size of the svg because I found that I was losing detail when I did a small svg and then exported (via Inkscape) to png. The attached image was exported as svg and converted to png using Gimp (rapidly). When I am producing an image on Inkscape I often export some parts to Gimp (and vice versa) and find the editing such as colouring, lighting, deleting and cloning better on Gimp and easier to give the effect that I am looking for. I then export these items to one or the other to complete an image. The sorceress was done completely on Inkscape until I did the conversion to png on Gimp. Dennis
On 31 August 2012 19:26, Paul A. Bristow <pbristow@...2746...> wrote:
*From:* Quick Silver [mailto:quicksilvercarrier@...660...] *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2012 2:36 PM *To:* Inkscape User Community *Subject:* Re: [Inkscape-user] Alternative to Inkscape for Windows 7****
It depends of course on the complexity of your drawings.****
Is this the real cause of your trouble?****
The size of you SVG is massive compared to most I have produced and seen.*
It is almost bitmap size!****
I'm not sure how you produced this svg, but it is generating a ton of bits ;-)****
I'm sure this doesn't help…****
Paul****
PS Since the code is written to be portable, I doubt if the OS makes much difference.****
Browsers may vary a bit, but by any standards your svg loads very slowly.*
---****
Paul A. Bristow,****
Prizet Farmhouse, Kendal LA8 8AB UK****
+44 1539 561830 07714330204****
pbristow@...2746...****
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I loaded your SVG under Ubuntu 0.48.3 and it is dog-slow as well (i7 64Bit, 4 Cores, 16G)
This matches my experience. It is still the vector based product i favour, but its speed definitely affects what i draw and how, sadly.
It really is a terrible shame. It would appear logical to me to reduce the numerous features and concentrate on the basics of performance. If there was an open source alternative I would be there right now. I have just completed a dream catcher where I support Inkscape with Gimp and I had no problems, mind you you can't compare the complexity of the Sorceress with my dream catcher :):) I dream for better days :)
Dennis
On 1 September 2012 10:53, Geoffrey <lordgeoffrey@...45...> wrote:
I loaded your SVG under Ubuntu 0.48.3 and it is dog-slow as well (i7 64Bit, 4 Cores, 16G)
This matches my experience. It is still the vector based product i favour, but its speed definitely affects what i draw and how, sadly.
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On Sat, 01 Sep 2012 17:53:06 +1000, Geoffrey said:
I loaded your SVG under Ubuntu 0.48.3 and it is dog-slow as well (i7 64Bit, 4 Cores, 16G)
This matches my experience. It is still the vector based product i favour, but its speed definitely affects what i draw and how, sadly.
Hi Geoffrey,
Did you load it under Inkscape or something else? If Inkscape, which version? The thread is a little hard to follow, with different people discussing different products.
=*=*=*=*=*=*=
You know what bothers me about this thread? The initial question (not posed by Geoffrey) was not "how do I get my graphic to edit acceptably with Inkscape x.x under Windows 7, 64bit, 8GB RAM", or even "how can I edit my SVG with acceptable speed", but instead, asking for an Inscape-like program that (my words) "works".
Let's just say that's not how *I* approach a project's mailing list with my first-ever post. It's hostile, and implies an agenda not aligned with Inkscape. If the original poster doesn't like Inkscape, let him find his own damn vector editor. We don't owe him him the time to guide him to the editor of his dreams.
Geoffrey has loaded the SVG (I presume in Inkscape) and reproduced the slowness on Linux. If the original poster had asked his question in a less insulting manner, right now I might be editing the SVG down to the smallest possible example to reproduce the issue, and then we'd find the component making Inkscape "slow", and fixing it might be just a simple profiling. Too bad the original poster didn't do that. Perhaps that wasn't his agenda.
Also not known, as far as I can read from this long, long thread about Inscape alternatives, is whether the original SVG was created entirely in Inkscape. Perhaps it's possible that the SVG displaying this slowness with Inkscape was actually written by a different program, one outputting bad, but recognizeable SVG, and Inscape takes a lot of time to figure out what is meant by the bad SVG. Did the original even bother to use "Vacuum Defs"? We don't know, but a Claws-Mail search found no instances of "vacuum" in this thread.
My recommendation would be to take the silver lining out of this thread's horizon to horizon black shelf clouds, and use this guy's SVG to determine exactly *what* component(s) result in Inkscape slowness, and if appropriate speed up that specific part of Inkscape. As far as guiding the original poster to his dream editor -- that's his job, not ours.
Last but not least, here's a document the original poster should read and then follow:
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Thanks
SteveT
Steve Litt * http://www.troubleshooters.com/ * http://twitter.com/stevelitt Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance
Hi Steven, My simple comment was >>
I loaded your SVG under Ubuntu 0.48.3 and it is dog-slow as well (i7 64Bit, 4 Cores, 16G) <<
On 02/09/12 04:19, Steve Litt wrote:
On Sat, 01 Sep 2012 17:53:06 +1000, Geoffrey said:
I loaded your SVG under Ubuntu 0.48.3 and it is dog-slow as well (i7 64Bit, 4 Cores, 16G)
This matches my experience. It is still the vector based product i favour, but its speed definitely affects what i draw and how, sadly.
Hi Geoffrey,
Did you load it under Inkscape or something else? If Inkscape, which version? The thread is a little hard to follow, with different people discussing different products.
=*=*=*=*=*=*=
You know what bothers me about this thread? The initial question (not posed by Geoffrey) was not "how do I get my graphic to edit acceptably with Inkscape x.x under Windows 7, 64bit, 8GB RAM", or even "how can I edit my SVG with acceptable speed", but instead, asking for an Inscape-like program that (my words) "works".
Let's just say that's not how *I* approach a project's mailing list with my first-ever post. It's hostile, and implies an agenda not aligned with Inkscape. If the original poster doesn't like Inkscape, let him find his own damn vector editor. We don't owe him him the time to guide him to the editor of his dreams.
Geoffrey has loaded the SVG (I presume in Inkscape) and reproduced the slowness on Linux. If the original poster had asked his question in a less insulting manner, right now I might be editing the SVG down to the smallest possible example to reproduce the issue, and then we'd find the component making Inkscape "slow", and fixing it might be just a simple profiling. Too bad the original poster didn't do that. Perhaps that wasn't his agenda.
Also not known, as far as I can read from this long, long thread about Inscape alternatives, is whether the original SVG was created entirely in Inkscape. Perhaps it's possible that the SVG displaying this slowness with Inkscape was actually written by a different program, one outputting bad, but recognizeable SVG, and Inscape takes a lot of time to figure out what is meant by the bad SVG. Did the original even bother to use "Vacuum Defs"? We don't know, but a Claws-Mail search found no instances of "vacuum" in this thread.
My recommendation would be to take the silver lining out of this thread's horizon to horizon black shelf clouds, and use this guy's SVG to determine exactly *what* component(s) result in Inkscape slowness, and if appropriate speed up that specific part of Inkscape. As far as guiding the original poster to his dream editor -- that's his job, not ours.
Last but not least, here's a document the original poster should read and then follow: I loaded your SVG under Ubuntu 0.48.3 and it is dog-slow as well (i7 64Bit, 4 Cores, 16G) http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Thanks
SteveT
Steve Litt * http://www.troubleshooters.com/ * http://twitter.com/stevelitt Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance
Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
On 1 September 2012 12:19, Steve Litt <slitt@...2357...> wrote:
You know what bothers me about this thread?
The original poster is obviously not a sophisticated computer user. I kindly suggest that expecting him to have a nuanced approach to mailing list etiquette on what is probably one of his first mailing lists isn't reasonable, and that those of us with more experience (15 years of my 29, here) apply the tact we would like ourselves on incoming emails when it isn't being applied by posters on their outgoing emails :-) www.mit.edu/~jcb/tact.html
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