March 2012 - Inkscape Devel - Inkscape Mailman

Powerstroke rounded joins
by Johan Engelen 24 Mar '12

24 Mar '12

Hi all, After busting my brain for two evenings, I've succeeded in creating properly rounded joins for powerstroked paths... The quick explanation: - for constant stroke width paths: looks like SVG rounded joins (circular arc) - for non-constant width paths, it is not possible to round with a circle and keep the curve smooth (tangents will not match). So the rounding is done with an elliptical arc, for which the tangents *do* match. There are many possible ellipses, and I decided for the one with minimum eccentricity. This converges to a circle for constant stroke width. Please test and tell me if it is bugged. (bzr rev 11111) Cheers, Johan

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] New tiling interface proposal
by Valerie 24 Mar '12

24 Mar '12

Alright, I've had the time to take a better look at Veronika's diagrams. They're really well-done, I feel like I finally understand what's going on! (quite a feat considering the headaches I've amassed from trying to figure out what's happening from several other sites) It's easier to see how handles would work thanks to those. Here's an example toggling between P1, P2, PM and PMM. http://www.freeimagehosting.net/kouh5 (hopefully you can tell the pair, symmetry and rotation handles) With an additional handle for glide reflection, it should be possible to connect all shapes with rectangular base tiles. I'm not sure how to fit in P3 and P4 though. What's more, it may be possible to convert between most of the triangle tiles by clicking on a corner, and dragging around to choose the number of tiles in that corner (3, 4, 6, 8 or 12). The shape of the tile would have to be updated automatically. The problem is that the users may then be tempted to drag other handles around to convert between pair, symmetry and rotate to play around, but the resulting output may not correspond to a tillable symmetry. There should be a method of warning in that case. Also, to make things less confusing, it may be possible to force one corner to be a "primary rotation corner" (the corner with the largest amount of tiles touching it) and a "secondary rotation corner." Does anyone feel up to trying to make a diagram with all 17 tilings as well as conversion methods between them? If you somehow manage to do that, I'll try to make a new tiling GUI proposal around it.

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] New tiling interface proposal
by Valerie 24 Mar '12

24 Mar '12

Ah-hah! People keep telling me about draggable handles, but I never was able to figure out what they meant (it's just me being clueless, not other people's faults). I think I'm beginning to see what people are talking about. Simple example: - Base tile: Rectangle for P1. At the side of each edge, you see a handle. The ones on the left and right are the same, the ones on the top and bottom are the same. Maybe parallel arrows. They symbolize "translation" (though I am going to go with another name, like "pair handle", because one side forms a pair with another) - By either dragging the handle or doing some other operation, the "pair" handle becomes say... a symmetry handle. So now the default behavior of that side is symmetry (also breaking the "pair" behavior of the other side). It can also be changed into anti- symmetry (using the center of the side). In the same way, there are edge handles. By manipulating it, the rectangle corner can become say... a triangle corner (and this is why I used "pair" rather than "translation": a pair behavior can be maintained). Alright, the main "issue" here is that I'm the one who doesn't know how to handle such behavior (since, as I've already explained, I'm pretty clueless about wallpaper tiling actually). Can someone more familiar with wallpaper tiling look into how feasible it is to transform from one tiling to another without erratic behavior? Is it possible to transform from one type to any other? If it's feasible, then I'll have to redo the whole thing proposal again. xD This time probably re-integrating guides and the actual tiling into one interface... ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Schafer <mschafer@...2596...> To: Valerie <valerie_vk@...36...> Cc: Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 6:05 AM Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] New tiling interface proposal I can see that a set of thumbnail pics showing the principle tiling layouts is useful for initial selection of a specific tiling. And your approach looks very good. But ideally that would create the interactive draggable handles on the canvas for users to interact with - and ideally modifiable to create all tilings simply from these widgets. That way a new user can select a tiling style to being to operate with (or see many choices) - and an advanced user can simply begin and manipulate the tiling to their desired outcome. This approach would argue for a simple UI where initial selection (or toggling of selection) can start/modify the current tiling on canvas. So not taking up alot of room on the UI seems preferable. Perhaps a drop down image selection ? I would add that the initial tile and its handles could be in 'bold' and the reflections etc be drawn 'weaker' and so the effect of handle manipulation can be more clearly adjusted interactively. A weaker 'reflection' also allows you an excuse to operate with simpler proxy copies of the original - which could be replaced with proper curves etc on handle release. To further control the amount of drawing, a "preview generations" numeric field could indicate how many of the tiling 'reflections' to actually draw. E.g. 1 would show only the first level 'reflections' of the tile, and a 2 would show a further level. 1 or 2 would probably suffice in most cases to visually see the effect of the tiling at a useful scale for design. Then - similar to the preview button on existing extensions - making it could then extend out to some kind of boundary. As you say a rectangle, or perhaps a clipping region of some kind, or a defined number of 'reflections' of the tile operator. Ideally the tile generator would be a widget which could be modified at any time - similar to existing tools like the box. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for having a go at this - its coming along very well - I'm very much looking forward to the result. Mark... On 3/24/2012 6:10 AM, Valerie wrote: >> http://i.imgur.com/DMCvU.png > Oh phew, thank you so much for making that! I was trying to make something like that too but a bit different, and some of those symmetries were starting to make me feel Very cross-eyed. > > Basically I was thinking that a table for all the tiling types > (both wallpaper and Frieze) with the following visual guides would > be useful: > 1. The base tile guide with no transformation indicators > 2. The base tile guide with indicators (use can toggle indicators > on and off) > 3. The preview when creating the guide (either what you did here, > or Thorsten's previews) > 4. An outline preview of extra tiles (can be toggled on and off, > shows basically the outline of those extra tiles as you've made here) > 5. My idea was to also make base tile guides that show you which > tile side ends up reflected on which side. This is meant to help > a person who wants to program the "guide points" feature: > - Two "corresponding" sides will be represented by dotted lines of > the same colours. (example: for simple translation, the left and > right sides would be dotted lines of one colour, and the up and > down sides of another colour). An arrow marks the "direction" of > each side. > - Each side that transforms onto itself is represented by a full > line. It is marked either by a single arrow (if the transformation > is in the same direction) or two arrows in opposite directions (if the tile is flipped) > 6. Base tiles again, this time with examples of guide points > and guide segments. > > (yeah, that makes a lot...) > >> I do have to throw out there at this point, the proposed UI >> for tiling at http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Tiling_tool is incredibly complex. One of the benefits to a dedicated tool is actually being able to manipulate parameters on-canvas. > Are you reading the latest version (there were many versions...)? > Because all the things that can be manipulated on canvas Are manipulated on-canvas... The dialogue is only choosing options > (there are a lot of options... much more than your average LPE, > even), the number of copies, and hitting "apply" (none of which > are really on-canvas interactions). > > I've thought of the use of tile shadow outlines to help users see > what will be rendered. The problem is dynamics. They make the > tile outlines unpredictable in the first place... That's why I came up > with extra render "target" options, so users can choose to render > over a specific, non-rectangular area, or even better, to render > as a target's pattern (if .svg allows that), so users can then > manually control any offsets with the pattern tool. > > Now, I was actually thinking about on-canvas handles for > manipulating dynamics, but that's a whole other can of worms... > (and given the time needed to render dynamic tiles, I'm not so > sure it's such a good idea to have them updated live...) > > I'm open to suggestions though. I've made a number of mock-ups > proposals for tilings until now, and this is just the latest iteration > (the... fifth I think? If I count the few ideas I first had a few years > ago). If someone has a general direction in mind (beyond "it has > to be a tool"), I can try to see if I can work out something. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF email is sponsosred by: > Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel >

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] New tiling interface proposal
by Valerie 23 Mar '12

23 Mar '12

> http://i.imgur.com/DMCvU.png Oh phew, thank you so much for making that! I was trying to make something like that too but a bit different, and some of those symmetries were starting to make me feel Very cross-eyed. Basically I was thinking that a table for all the tiling types (both wallpaper and Frieze) with the following visual guides would be useful: 1. The base tile guide with no transformation indicators 2. The base tile guide with indicators (use can toggle indicators on and off) 3. The preview when creating the guide (either what you did here, or Thorsten's previews) 4. An outline preview of extra tiles (can be toggled on and off, shows basically the outline of those extra tiles as you've made here) 5. My idea was to also make base tile guides that show you which tile side ends up reflected on which side. This is meant to help a person who wants to program the "guide points" feature: - Two "corresponding" sides will be represented by dotted lines of the same colours. (example: for simple translation, the left and right sides would be dotted lines of one colour, and the up and down sides of another colour). An arrow marks the "direction" of each side. - Each side that transforms onto itself is represented by a full line. It is marked either by a single arrow (if the transformation is in the same direction) or two arrows in opposite directions (if the tile is flipped) 6. Base tiles again, this time with examples of guide points and guide segments. (yeah, that makes a lot...) > I do have to throw out there at this point, the proposed UI > for tiling at http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Tiling_tool > is incredibly complex. One of the benefits to a dedicated tool > is actually being able to manipulate parameters on-canvas. Are you reading the latest version (there were many versions...)? Because all the things that can be manipulated on canvas Are manipulated on-canvas... The dialogue is only choosing options (there are a lot of options... much more than your average LPE, even), the number of copies, and hitting "apply" (none of which are really on-canvas interactions). I've thought of the use of tile shadow outlines to help users see what will be rendered. The problem is dynamics. They make the tile outlines unpredictable in the first place... That's why I came up with extra render "target" options, so users can choose to render over a specific, non-rectangular area, or even better, to render as a target's pattern (if .svg allows that), so users can then manually control any offsets with the pattern tool. Now, I was actually thinking about on-canvas handles for manipulating dynamics, but that's a whole other can of worms... (and given the time needed to render dynamic tiles, I'm not so sure it's such a good idea to have them updated live...) I'm open to suggestions though. I've made a number of mock-ups proposals for tilings until now, and this is just the latest iteration (the... fifth I think? If I count the few ideas I first had a few years ago). If someone has a general direction in mind (beyond "it has to be a tool"), I can try to see if I can work out something.

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Release of binaries
by Johan Engelen 23 Mar '12

23 Mar '12

Hi all, Apparently, there is a policy to release binaries at the same time, instead of simply uploading them to Sourceforge whenever they become available. I would like to see this changed to the latter option. I see no point in why people on one platform would have to wait for binaries becoming available on the other. Thanks for your consideration, Johan

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QR code request.
by john Culleton 23 Mar '12

23 Mar '12

I note that Inkscape offers the Datamatrix bar code as an option. However another 2d bar code is now in common use, the QR code which can be read by many handheld devices. I wonder if a QR generator could be added to Inkscape, perhaps as a GSOC project. -- John Culleton Free list of books for self-publishers: http://wexfordpress.net/shortlist.html Police Procedural and Expose: "Death Wore Black" "Create Book Covers with Scribus" http://www.booklocker.com/books/4055.html

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Additional print file outputs.
by john Culleton 23 Mar '12

23 Mar '12

The printer Lightning Source Inc. will only accept print files for book covers in the form of PDF X/1-a:2001 or TIFF. Neither is available from Inkscape 0.48.2. While conversion of a png file is available through ImageMagick or GraphicsMagick this requires use of the the command line which the current generation has been taught to fear. So I wonder if one or both options could be built in to a future version of Inkscape. Perhaps this could be a GSOC project. -- John Culleton Free list of books for self-publishers: http://wexfordpress.net/shortlist.html Police Procedural and Expose: "Death Wore Black" "Create Book Covers with Scribus" http://www.booklocker.com/books/4055.html

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0.48.3.1 Windows installer
by Krzysztof Kosiński 23 Mar '12

23 Mar '12

Hello all I have a Windows installer ready, and it seems to work correctly. It is 36 MB, so too big to send via email. Where should I upload it so that others might test? Regards, Krzysztof

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] New tiling interface proposal
by Valerie 22 Mar '12

22 Mar '12

> Yes, the Rosetta group has two basic patterns: simple rotations > (restricted to angles that evenly divide into 360) and rotation plus > reflection - I didn't see the reflection option in your design, perhaps > I missed it. It's in the Tiling dialogue mock-up for Radial tiling, and in the description of the work sequence for the "Add tiling type" section. I guess I should make a table with the transformation options, and add the Frieze options while I'm at it. On the previews: I'm actually trying to keep the guides themselves as uncluttered as possible where extra indicators are concerned. That's because one look at the detailed wikipedia base tiles convinced me that they're more confusing than helpful. As I said, there already are previews, before you create the guides. I think that they're enough to give users an idea of what's going on. Besides, the shapes themselves usually give a clue as to what the transformation will be (if it's a triangle, you know that it isn't simple translation). The guides can be transformed like any other object, so you can resize, rotate and flip them like normal objects. I believe the guide points feature is more useful than giving more indicators on the guides themselves: at the end of the day, when the user is designing a seamless tile, what he needs to know most is how a line going out of the tile will connect to the next tile. What happens to the corner of the base tile isn't as useful. Here's the description again: > When a guide point is created on one side of a guide, counterparts > are automatically created on all other sides of the basic guide. All > changes to the original will be reflected onto the new tile. > What's more, you can click and drag this guide to create a guide > segment. By snapping a node on a guide point and snapping its > handle to the end of the guide segment, and by repeating the > operation with the node's counterpart, the user can create smooth > transitions from one tile to the next. Guide points can be moved along the corners of the guides. When you do so, all its counterpoints are updated dynamically. I guess the current mock-ups aren't clear enough, I'll have to make a few new ones. Look at this program: http://www.cgl.uwaterloo.ca/~csk/software/penrose/ Unlike this program, the guide points can be moved along the sides of the guide. Like this program, by dragging on some of them, a segment is created that also appears on all the guide points' counterparts. Do you understand the concept now? You can know exactly how a line going out of the tile will go back in. As for the tiling shadow, the problem is how many tiles will be displayed. Controlling the number of tiles must be done from the tiling dialogue rather than from the tiling guide tool. I guess I could add a "show tiles outline" option to the tiling dialogue.

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] Inkscape GIS
by Stefan de Konink 21 Mar '12

21 Mar '12

On 17-03-12 20:55, Brylie Oxley wrote: > Thank you for suggesting Mapnik Stefan! :-) Inkscape would be a suitable > GUI for a Mapnik based cartography solution. I do not think that > Inkscape and Mapnik are necessarily in opposition, do you? The major problem is, if you look at cartography to SVG is that data is not offered in layers you would actually use in regular print. The output of mapnik is actually a set of drawing commands. So your audience might require two approaches; - ability to get an arbitary piece of a map, and the ability to interactively edit the stylesheet, see output etc. Inkscape could help here because stylesheets contain a lot of SVG elements you want to edit along the map; the result of this operation is a stylesheet, and a set of icons. - the ability to get arbitrary data in layers and be your own renderer, stack layers, assign decimation, add colours etc. this would be closer to having a shapefile in a solution like Illustrator and modifying it. Opposed to mapnik this step requires the editor to do 'layer' operations theirselves. Stefan

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