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Re: [Inkscape-devel] Using gtkmm in inkscape
by bulia byak 13 Jan '04

13 Jan '04

Nathan, let me respectfully disagree. >Jon, we _DON'T_ want lots of users just yet. Look what happens when you >get lots of users: they complain about features not being available; Which is valuable. We cannot invent everything. >they complain that the interface isn't exactly like their favourite program >XYZ; Which is valuable. We cannot know all existing programs inside out, so why not use this help. >they clutter mailing lists up with questions answered already in the FAQ or >user manual(which we haven't even written yet); More incentive to write it. Or would you prefer writing to a nonexisting audience? This sounds like a perversion to me :) >and you spend the whole time worrying about fixing code to compile on >borland visual gcc 2.96. First, _users_ don't usually tweak with compiling. Second, just set a standard set of requirements/platforms (what you are doing now) and don't care about everything else. And third, it's just as likely that someone will come up with, "Hey, I know you don't support it, but I managed to compile on XYZ, here's the patch." >Can we stop treating this as a commercial project whose main aim is to >maximise user base? I've been on such projects before, and they usually >die a horrible death. If a project has managed to gain a good user base, it doesn't already sound like "horrible death" to me, regardless of what lies ahead. Projects that die _without_ users look much more pitiful. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.ms…

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RE: [Inkscape-devel] [Fwd: Re: [Sodipodi-list] Visual cue for multiple selection
by bulia byak 13 Jan '04

13 Jan '04

> > My only concern is what do you do when there are more than like 20 > > objects selected at once? Don't you think at a certain point the amount > > of sub-bounding boxes would be overwhelming? > >That is possible. It has never bothered me in the past, but we'll have to >see how we get on. Perhaps we could increase the transparency of the >boxes as the number of items increases, or something. See my comment here: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=875727&group_id=9… In short: I'm against boxes (messy!) but individual items in a selection can and should be marked somehow, for example as Xara does that by adding a small inverted square (like a handle but smaller) at the top left corner of each object's bounding box. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.ms…

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[Fwd: Re: [Sodipodi-list] Visual cue for multiple selections]
by Jonathan Phillips 13 Jan '04

13 Jan '04

-----Forwarded Message----- From: Carl Hetherington <lists@...169...> To: Lauris Kaplinski <lauris@...39...> Cc: sodipodi-list(a)lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Sodipodi-list] Visual cue for multiple selections Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:40:23 +0000 On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Lauris Kaplinski wrote: > Hello! [snip] > It may be clear for 2-4 items, but may become visual hodgepodge > if you have, say 20 items. > As far as I remember, CorelDraw painted tiny anchor dot for > each object selected. This may be alternative approach - there > even is no need to choose either one, if we can make these > configurable. OK. Seeing the bounding boxes of a large selection never really bothered me, but I can see how it would be bad in some circumstances. In order to demonstrate the idea, I've submitted a patch to the sf.net patch tracker which puts red bounding boxes around selected items. It's a diff against current CVS. I'd be interested in any thoughts. I think the immediate to-do list is: 1. make it optional. 2. decide how to choose a colour for the item bounding boxes. 3. make it more efficient. I'd be pleased to hear any comments or thoughts. Cheers Carl ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Perforce Software. Perforce is the Fast Software Configuration Management System offering advanced branching capabilities and atomic changes on 50+ platforms. Free Eval! http://www.perforce.com/perforce/loadprog.html _______________________________________________ Sodipodi-list mailing list Sodipodi-list(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sodipodi-list -- Jonathan Phillips <jon@...15...>

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[Fwd: Re: [Sodipodi-list] Visual cue for multiple selections]
by Jonathan Phillips 13 Jan '04

13 Jan '04

-----Forwarded Message----- From: Carl Hetherington <lists@...169...> To: Jonathan Phillips <jon@...15...> Subject: Re: [Sodipodi-list] Visual cue for multiple selections Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:43:48 +0000 Hi Jonathan, On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Jonathan Phillips wrote: > We would love it if you worked on this problem in INKSCAPE. We've been > discussing it and I've added your request to the INKSCAPE RFE. It is a > good idea. > > www.inkscape.org (join our developers list!) > > My only concern is what do you do when there are more than like 20 > objects selected at once? Don't you think at a certain point the amount > of sub-bounding boxes would be overwhelming? That is possible. It has never bothered me in the past, but we'll have to see how we get on. Perhaps we could increase the transparency of the boxes as the number of items increases, or something. > I'm not trying to steal you away from sodipodi, but I think that you > will find our development community is more supportive of direct > changes/revisions to the codebase. Come check us out... Looks good :-) The fact that the inkscape toolbars are docked to the main window gives you an instant 1-0 lead! (especially since I'm using Windows) I haven't got around to compiling inkscape yet, but it looks like the patch I just submitted to the sodipodi patch tracker should apply to inkscape as well. It's only a "first cut", but it gives you the idea. Cheers Carl -- Jonathan Phillips <jon@...15...>

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] Using gtkmm in inkscape
by bulia byak 13 Jan '04

13 Jan '04

>done." This means that if a decision is between more users or easier for >developers, I say we take the easier for developers option. Choices of this kind are fortunately rare. Normally we can all focus on our areas of interest (e.g. the usability for me or program internals for you) without stepping on each other's toes. >In this case it means using gtkmm _despite_ it not being available in large >quantities. I'm no expert but I got the impression that gtkmm availability is being resolved, so the point is moot. > In this case it means not holding back a feature because it makes the >windows port hard. Can you give an example of such a feature? >In this case it means throwing away a large chunk of UI code because it was >clumsy. Are you referring to the spiral tool? If so, what's so clumsy about it? >Otherwise we will decend to the point where all we are doing is minor >tweaks to the about box... :-) _Someone_ must do these tweaks, too. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/photos&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjo…

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gtkmm in MacOS X Fink, maybe
by unknown＠example.com 13 Jan '04

13 Jan '04

This might be what you need. I think someone added it yesterday: http://fink.sourceforge.net/pdb/package.php/gtkmm2 Murray Cumming www.murrayc.com murrayc@...167...

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RE: [Inkscape-devel] Using gtkmm in inkscape
by unknown＠example.com 13 Jan '04

13 Jan '04

> However, freshrpms does have a 9.0 package that installs on 8.0. But > again, it's a bit problematic for those individuals and companies who > haven't stayed on the cutting edge. Fedora.us has gtkmm rpms, so you should use them instead, because they are official. They are basically the same as the fedora.us gtkmm rpms for Fedora Core 1. Murray Cumming www.murrayc.com murrayc@...167...

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Using gtkmm in inkscape
by unknown＠example.com 13 Jan '04

13 Jan '04

Hi, someone pointed this status page out to me: http://www.inkscape.org/status/status_20031231.php So I thought I would offer some advice, quoting that page: > A second and much more critical issue has been raised regarding Gtkmm. > As planned since early in the project, we began incorporating Gtkmm > into Inkscape following the 0.36 release. Quickly it became evident > that this introduced severe dependency issues. > Gtkmm 2.x is not available commonly on most Linux distros. It is easily available for debian and RedHat/Fedora, from official distro sources: http://www.gtkmm.org/download.shtml A Mandrake developer assured me that they would ship it, but I don't have a Mandrake installation and I don't know how to check that. I'm fairly sure that it's easily available for Gentoo. SUSE have no public bug tracking or feedback system that I know of, but hopefully that will get better. With no contributions system, you will have difficult installing Inkscape on SUSE whether or not you need gtkmm. What other distros are you interested in? > On Windows it adds to the DLL download weight. I'm not sure what significance the download size has these days. By the way, gtkmm is easily installable on Windows: http://www.gtkmm.org/download.shtml > Most distressingly, it isn't yet ported to OSX. It builds, and works, and Julian Missig built a darwinports package: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtkmm-list/2003-December/msg00122.html I don't know much about MacOS X these days, but I suspect that you want it as a Fink package. That should not be at all difficult to do. Please tell ask on the gtkmm-list if you need help with that. I would appreciate being CCed on any communication with the Fink people. Murray Cumming www.murrayc.com murrayc@...167...

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RE: [Inkscape-devel] Using gtkmm in inkscape
by unknown＠example.com 12 Jan '04

12 Jan '04

> We can't > expect customers to have recent versions of anything, If they can get your application, then they can get your application's dependencies. It has not always been easy to get either applicatins or their dependencies but it's getting better now that Fedora is official. > nor > can we expect them to upgrade. Why shouldn't they upgrade? If the dependencies have stable API and ABIs then there is no reason not to upgrade the depenencies. Murray Cumming www.murrayc.com murrayc@...167...

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RE: [Inkscape-devel] Using gtkmm in inkscape
by unknown＠example.com 12 Jan '04

12 Jan '04

> Of course it is available. The question is, "Is it already > there?" The average blue-haired old lady might be puzzled a > bit by a dialog: "You must have gtkmm-2.4-x.rpm installed for > Inkscape to work" 'RPM Hell' is becoming a major part of the > Download Factor. But, on sane systems such as debian's apt and RedHat/Fedora's new thingy, and others, you will just install Inkscape and it will take care of the rest. People will not even know, or care, that you use gtkmm. > >>On Windows it adds to the DLL download weight. > >> > >> > > > >I'm not sure what significance the download size has these > days. By the > >way, gtkmm is easily installable on Windows: > >http://www.gtkmm.org/download.shtml > > > > > > This is the other major part. Every little bit hurts. If > we need it, > include it. Using, or not using, gtkmm is not the sort of major decision that should hinge on a little bit of download size. And as someone else said in another thread, people are quite used to enormous Windows downloads, because everyone has to ship all of MFC, CommonDialogs, yadda yadda in every application installer. Murray Cumming www.murrayc.com murrayc@...167...

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RE: [Inkscape-devel] Using gtkmm in inkscape
by unknown＠example.com 12 Jan '04

12 Jan '04

> I have a question, something we were talking about a week > ago. Is it possible to build recent versions of gtkmm and > sigc++ with not-so-recent versions of Gtk, Glib, and the > like? libsigc++ does not depend on GTK+ or glib. gtkmm 2.2 can build with GTK+ 2.2 and glib 2.2, and with later API/ABI-compatible versions such as GTK+ 2.3/2.4. gtkmm 2.4 requires GTK+ 2.4 (2.3 will become 2.4). Gtkmm 2.4 installs in parallel with gtkmm 2.2, so you can have both: http://www.gtkmm.org/ > It would be good if we could limit the wildcards of > the distro to only those two libs. glibmm is now a separate module, for gtkmm 2.4. Murray Cumming www.murrayc.com murrayc@...167...

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Rendering Plugin: GtkMathView
by Felix Breuer 12 Jan '04

12 Jan '04

Hello Inkscape Hackers! I have a couple of questions: In general: Does the planned plugin architechture of Inkscape allow for rendering plugins, i.e. plugins that render new/custom/other tags in the SVG document (embedded via the foreignObject tag)? More specifically: I would really like a MathML rendering plugin. Does your (planned) plugin architechture allow for such a thing? If it does, my suggestion is the following: GtkMathView [1] is a very mature MathML rendering engine which provides a) a GTK rendering widget, b) a C++ interface for rendering MathML and, most importantly, a Bonobo component. For details see [1]. It might be possible to use this to render MathML formulas inside pictures/diagramms created with Inkscape without too much implementation effort (?). Rationale: Currently there is no modern visual software to create mathematical/technical drawings. The free software user who needs such drawings (i.e. drawings that contain formulas) is forced to use programms like Xfig or to hand-code these drawings in LaTeX. Neither approach suits me and most of the mathematicians I know rather stick to pen and paper because of that. Hence, I think there is a not-too-small community of people who would be interested in this feature. If you think this is feasible with regard to Inkscape's plugin architechture, I might well take to the task of implementing the actual plugin. Please tell me what you think. Regards, Felix

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Dependencies, GTKmm, Windows and autopackage
by Mike Hearn 12 Jan '04

12 Jan '04

That's a bit of a mouthful of a subject line, isn't it? Let me introduce myself. I'm the maintainer of the autopackage project (http://autopackage.org/) which is focussed on making software installation on Linux as easy as it is on other platforms. There are several parts to that mission, but autopackage is one of the first - it's a way of building packages that can be installed on any distribution *with* dependency handling. The idea is that maintainers of applications and libraries build a binary package at the same time as releasing source code packages, so ensuring that end users need not compile from the source. A few things that autopackage is: - A framework for building distro-neutral installers - A system that checks the OS directly for any dependencies required, so you don't have to use autopackage to install dependencies: it will detect their presence regardless of whether RPM, source code or simply copying binaries from another machine was used. - Currently experimental. We're about to release 0.4. All packages built until we release 1.0 are classed as experimental too. - Distributed: autopackage does not depend on having large repositories of packages built from it. The idea is that maintainers host packages themselves, and packages know where to go and find them to resolve dependencies. A few things autopackage is not: - It's not a distro. The idea is not that we package everything - far from it, all the packages we produce currently (there are only a few) are for testing purposes only. - It's not a replacement for RPM. For version 0.6/0.7 we want to integrate support for using native RPMs/DEBs/ebuilds where they exist, and utilising the native dep resolver when possible. Why is this relevant to Inkscape? I noticed on your last status report that you were considering delaying the introduction of GTKmm because it was not widely spread enough amongst distros. This is problematic, as the reason it's not installed by default in most distros is the lack of popular apps using it. One of the reasons people are reluctant to use it, is the lack of distros which include it. Clearly this is a catch-22 situation. So what is the answer? autopackage 0.4, which features network dependency retrieval, is going to be released soon. After that comes 0.5, in which we don't really want to add new features but instead concentrate on packaging a reasonably complex real world application. Up until now we've been using Gaim, which works OK but the Gaim maintainers have been less than co-operative so we're scouting around for something else (which preferably uses language bindings) to package instead. Programs that use language bindings are primary targets for us, because the dependency problems caused by them often discourage people from using them. This is not good, because language bindings have the potential to dramatically increase the productivity of free software developers by letting us get away from C. Therefore, I want people to use them, therefore I want people to depend on them. I have a proposal: If you go ahead with your original plans to make full use of GTKmm and all the useful things it provides, for 0.5 we will package Inkscape and GTKmm together in a distro-neutral fashion. You can link to these packages from your website, as well as providing packages in any other form you like. If up to date RPMs, DEBs etc are not available for the users distro, they can try the .package (autopackage) files. They will scan the system for GTKmm and other deps, and download and install them if not found. Here is a quick attempt to address some questions I expect you have. Q: But there are other reasons we are wary of GTKmm! A: Yes. The maintainer of GTKmm is not aware of any building problems on MacOS X however - being standard C++ and given that Apple use gcc, it's hard to imagine where potential problems might come from. Certainly, it would not be hard to port if there were issues. I'm not sure this is a valid reason to avoid GTKmm: if people want to use Inkscape on MacOS then any issues (if there are any) will be worked out. Murray Cumming can comment more on this. DLL bloat: all I can say here is that many, many win32 applications ship with MFC or ATL DLLs so this is hardly a problem unique to ported applications. Certainly the benefits of a good C++ wrapper outweigh the additional download size IMHO. Q: Isn't Linux binary portability really bad? A: Well, yes and no. A part of the work we do for autopackage is R&D into Linux binary portability. You're almost certainly aware of the C++ ABI break, about which we can do nothing. Fortunately gcc 2.95 is several years old now and *all* modern distros are compiled with gcc 3.2, so this is not so problematic (though autopackage can detect and deal with it nonetheless). There are other issues, of course. We have some simple drop-in build tools to control glibc symbol versions, the package build program scans all ELF binaries to locate common mistakes, and so on. In order to improve the binary portability between Linux distros, minor changes to the build system and/or source may be necessary. They should not affect the functionality of the program in any way. Q: Where does Windows come into this? A: You want a Win32 port. As you have already discovered ..... http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=841633&group_id=93… .... Win32 binaries are always binary relocatable, whereas Linux binaries often are not. Inkscape is typical in that it contains constructs of the form: open_file( INKSCAPE_GLADE_DIR "/foo.png" ) or whatever, ie the path to the binary is constructed at compile time, not runtime. In other words, it's source but not binary relocatable. A minimum requirement of software packaged using autopackage is that it must be binary relocatable. There are several use cases for why this is good - from people who want to install to their home directory (autopackage allows them to do this automatically), to people who ran out of space on / and added a new harddisk, to admins installing to network mountpoints. This is not so trivial on Linux because there is no equivalent to the Win32 GetModuleFileName() call. Fortunately, as part of developing autopackage we have written a simple C file that can be dropped into any program or library and used to determine the prefix at runtime. This file is Linux specific (it reads /proc) but it can be switched on/off automatically in the configure script. Ports to other platforms will be added as time goes by. binreloc, as we call it, is really easy to use. It redefines the standard macros, so you can replace: open( DATA_DIR "/foo.png" ); with open( DATA_DIR("/foo.png") ); That's it! TLS slots are used to ensure there are no memory leaks. You already need to remove hard-coded prefixes like that from the code for the Win32 port to be really robust. At the same time, it can be done for Linux. If you aren't wanting to do this straight away, I might be able to write a patch to do it using binreloc. I also hack on Wine (my other project) so hopefully making it work for Win32 as well wouldn't be too hard. Q: But GTKmm is already packaged for Fedora and Debian. Users will want to use them, not the autopackage versions! A: Sure, we know that. At the moment autopackage can only fulfil missing dependencies using its own packages. In the 0.6/0.7 timeframe we want to add support for at minimum apt, and probably also yum and maybe urpmi so users will get the packages designed specifically for their distro instead of the generic ones. Q: What about GTK 2.2 vs GTK 2.0? A: Yeah, maybe. We're kind of reluctant to package GTK itself as that's really the distributors job - GTK is a core OS component these days. Linux is moving so fast at the moment that to be able to use new software I think it's reasonable to expect people to be upgrading their distros. Supporting one previous version is probably OK, supporting a year old distro is pushing things a bit. Still, there's no theoretical reason why we can't build GTK autopackages if the demand is there. Most people would want to at least wait until we integrate better with RPM before upgrading their system like that. If you have other questions about autopackage specifically, then see the autopackage FAQ: http://www.autopackage.org/faq.html In summary, my proposal is simple: * You continue the original plan of using GTKmm and reap the productivity benefits. Murray is chatting to the fink guys, so hopefully MacOS X worries should soon be dealt with. * We build Linux distro-neutral packages of Inkscape and GTKmm for the autopackage 0.5 milestone. We host them on our servers. * You link to them from your website. This lets people who don't have GTKmm packages available natively for their distro install Inkscape binaries anyway. * We maintain them until autopackage reaches version 1. At this point we don't want to maintain packages anymore, and will be pushing out all the specfiles we were testing with to the community and maintainers. At this point you can decide whether the test packages were popular enough to warrant continuing with autopackage. Apologies for the overlong email, but I wanted you guys to have some context. What do you think? thanks -mike

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Request breaking CVS lock
by Peter Moulder 12 Jan '04

12 Jan '04

A cvs -d ':ext:pjrm@...54...:/cvsroot/inkscape' admin -ko many-files... command segfaulted, apparently leaving locks in place. According to *see (cvs)Concurrency: If a lock seems to stick around for an undue amount of time, find the person holding the lock and ask them about the cvs command they are running. If they aren't running a cvs command, look in the repository directory mentioned in the message and remove files which they own whose names start with `#cvs.rfl', `#cvs.wfl', or `#cvs.lock'. Can you please remove all such files owned by pjrm (me) in inkscape's CVS repository? Thanks, pjrm.

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] new keys for the panel
by bulia byak 11 Jan '04

11 Jan '04

>Here's a readers' digest summary of how Inkscape accelerators work: Thanks! I put this into wiki for developers to benefit. Please everyone, if you have grokked some aspect of the program well enough, please take time to document it on wiki. So, Mental, what is your advice for alt-x and alt-z - add gtk accelerators or manually send focus to specific widgets? I tend to think the latter would be simpler, and I don't think that much more "activate widget" actions will be needed anyway. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/photos&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjo…

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RE: [Inkscape-devel] Patch to tidy up the print destination dialog
by bulia byak 11 Jan '04

11 Jan '04

>Just checked out inkscape and noticed that the Print Destination dialog >that does three things Thanks, applied. Actually printing has more severe problems at the moment (see bug 850936), but any help is appreciated :) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoi…

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Patch to tidy up the print destination dialog
by iain 11 Jan '04

11 Jan '04

Hi guys, Just checked out inkscape and noticed that the Print Destination dialog that does three things 1) Capitalises the whole dialog name "to Print Destination" rather than "Print destination" 2) Removes the separator 3) Switches the Print and Cancel buttons around to fit with the GNOME HIG (Dunno if you're wanting to follow it, but the Open/Save dialogs are using it for their button arrangements) iain

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Survey: Motivations to Contribute
by Ralph Spitzer 11 Jan '04

11 Jan '04

Hi all! I'm doing a research project on the motives of free software / open source software developers. This survey follows a somewhat different approach than some earlier studies and tries to incorporate concepts of social psychology to better understand the internal motivation of developers. The questionnaire consists of 44 questions which should be scored on a scale from 1 to 7. According to test runs, completion of the questionnaire should take about 6 minutes. No registration required. The questionnaire and more information about the survey can be found here: *** http://foss-survey.at.tf *** The survey will be online until the end of January. I hope to have the results online by mid February. If you want to be notified, please enter your email address in the appropriate box. If you have questions or comments about this survey, please CC me or email me directly, because I won't be able to follow all the lists/forums. Thank you. Your help is greatly appreciated. ralph

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More cosmetics
by bulia byak 11 Jan '04

11 Jan '04

* More screen real estate: you can now hide rulers (Ctrl+R) and scrollbars (Ctrl+B). These settings are not yet stored in prefs but are planned to. I also added three toggle commands (grid, rulers, scrollbars) to the View menu. One missing command is toggle guides - it's still broken. Someone needs to look into it. I also removed the 3D border from the canvas frame, so now the rulers (when they're on) look less bulky and intrusive. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/photos&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjo…

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] screenshot-ready
by bulia byak 11 Jan '04

11 Jan '04

>>>It seems like the icon for the far left "Zoom drawing if window size >>>changes" is not taking up all the space of the widget. >> >> >>This button is planned for elimination anyway, there will be a global >>switch to that effect in preferences instead. > >Do you think so? I think both behaviours are common and would be better >serviced by an accessible button. Of course, I'm not a big user of >inkscape, so I am happy if I'm wrong. This switch makes sense for an SVG viewer - in it, if you resize a window, you want the drawing to resize as well, if only because you have no other ways to zoom or pan it. With an editor, your window is indeed a _window_ showing you the part of the landscape you're working on; and of course when you open your window wider or narrower the landscape does not change. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoi…

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] screenshot-ready
by bulia byak 11 Jan '04

11 Jan '04

>It seems like the icon for the far left "Zoom drawing if window size >changes" is not taking up all the space of the widget. This button is planned for elimination anyway, there will be a global switch to that effect in preferences instead. >Also, it seems like the status bar text should be vertically aligned in >the center to flow with vertical alignment with the other elements at >the bottom of the document window. That would be perfect, but I could not find a way to affect the vertical padding or alignment of a gtk_statusbar. Any advice from the GTK experts in the audience? :) BTW, Jon, any progress with the Help menu? I would love to have at least the keyboard shortcuts and the man page there for the upcoming release. The keyboard shortcuts page is the most important - it may well be sufficient for clueful users to learn the entire program even without the manual. Will the help menu commands call a browser on an HTML page? If so I wll prepare a better formatted version of the shortcuts page in HTML. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/photos&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjo…

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screenshot-ready
by bulia byak 11 Jan '04

11 Jan '04

I've just committed a few cosmetic changes to the document window, mostly reducing the font size of things. IMHO it looks very awkward and unprofessional when everything uses the same font size. Another advantage is a bit more screen space for the image itself. Comments welcome. In particular, I simplified the ruler pango code by Daniel Borgmann so that now it uses a fixed font size (defined in widgets/widget-sizes.h) instead of trying to determine the default GTK font size. This makes sense, because everything else in the ruler has fixed pixel sizes, so the font must be fixed too. The zoom spinbutton is now finally editable again (using the same code as the top panel spinbuttons). I will assign alt-z to jump to it when I figure out the gtk accelerators (or decide that they are not worth the trouble and implement it via a verb). The coordinate display now uses gtk_label instead of statusbar. This gives better alignment and removes the border which helps differentiate it from the real statusbar (which now has more space to itself). Mental, will you please comment out the detachability of the top panel for now, as we discussed? Anyone has any idea of this bug: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=874205&group_id=9… This looks like a GTK problem to me, but maybe there's a smart trick that would get rid of that. It's minor but annoying. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoi…

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RE: [Inkscape-devel] 4 signals sent from sliders
by bulia byak 11 Jan '04

11 Jan '04

>The color sliders emit four different signals: > >grabbed >dragged >released >changed > >However, comparable GTK+ widgets only emit a single signal: > >changed > >and follow up with a gboolean xxx_is_adjusting() function. I'm not sure, but the best way to test is to try disabling the extra signals and see if something will break. Commit the change and we'll try to find anything wrong with it. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.ms…

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new keys for the panel
by bulia byak 11 Jan '04

11 Jan '04

The panel The panel at the top of the document window displays a different set of fields and controls for each tool. * Alt+x jump to the first editable field in the secondary toolbar * Enter set the current field's new value (if changed) and leave the secondary toolbar * Esc cancel any changes in the current field and leave the secondary toolbar * Ctrl+z cancel any changes in the current field * Tab, Shift+Tab jump between fields in the secondary toolbar (the value in the field you leave, if changed, is set) * Up/Down arrows change the current value by 0.1 * PgUp/PgDn change the current value by 5.0 This is the basic set of keybindings that makes the panel (aka secondary toolbar, but I like the "panel" term better) usable. Some of this functionality was provided by GTK but had to be cleaned up, some was implemented from scratch. Not to start a flamewar, but my impression of GTK so far is not too favorable: messy, underdocumented, somewhat similar to GIMP itself in its "interface" (I mean the programmer's interface, not only GUI). I don't know if other toolkits are much better, though. Questions for everyone: - alt-x: I like this shortcut, but if anyone will propose a better one I will be glad to hear. - Is alt-x plus tab/shift-tab enough for navigating the toolbar, or do we want each widget to have its own shortcut? Or will this be too much, with potentially tens of widgets in all tools? Of course such shortcuts would use consistent modifiers and would correspond to the widget labels, e.g. for the selector toolbar: ctrl-alt-x, ctrl-alt-y, ctrl-alt-w, ctrl-alt-h. - Now alt-x is implemented very stupidly, through grab_focus of a specific widget. I tried to use GTK "accelerators" but was unable to make them work. Does anyone know if Inkscape uses GTK accelerators? If not, how are the global verbs implemented? If I manage to add an accelerator group to the top-level document window, will it conflict with verbs? Can one point me to a not-too-complex GTK app that uses accelerators so I could figure it out? (The documentation is very scarce.) P.S. I've tried to send this message several times. Guess what, sourceforge was rejecting it as spam because in the phrase "through grab_focus" I had "via" instead of "through" - which matched the regexp for some well-known substance name! Oh my. Hope it will pass through this time. _________________________________________________________________ Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up � fast & reliable Internet access with prime features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1

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4 signals sent from sliders
by Jon A.Cruz 11 Jan '04

11 Jan '04

The color sliders emit four different signals: grabbed dragged released changed However, comparable GTK+ widgets only emit a single signal: changed and follow up with a gboolean xxx_is_adjusting() function. I was wondering if there is any reason for the 4-signal method, and whether or not we should keep or lose it.

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