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Re: [Inkscape-devel] Re: [cairo] Pango + cairo
by Owen Taylor 18 Mar '05

18 Mar '05

[ Adding gtk-i18n-list to the CC, as more on-topic ] [ ... Various comments about SVG text requirements snipped ... ] On Thu, 2005-03-17 at 13:32 +1100, Peter Moulder wrote: > > I believe that there is a place for a library supporting advanced text > > applications, but that Pango Layout is not it. The overhead is really > > quite large and seems unnecessary for an API whose primary goal is > > laying out text in widgets. > > Owen, can you comment on what you see as pango's scope? Are you > interested in non-rectangular text regions? Are you interested in > non-greedy line breaking? (I'd guess that non-greedy line breaking > would be desirable even for dialog boxes, at least from a functional > point of view; the only question is whether it justifies the cost in > terms of maintainability of pango code and perhaps code size.) Pango's goal is to support anything anybody wants to do with text. The scope is implicit in the fact that text is hard, and internationalized text is harder. If you start from scratch and don't use Pango, you either have to say "full international coverage is never going to be interesting to me", or you have a year or two of work to do to catch up to Pango. So, the question isn't to me "what is Pango's scope" but rather what parts of Pango should be universal, and what parts do you replace. In particular, what about PangoLayout? It's really only a small part of Pango's code - maybe 10-15% of the total 65,000 lines of code, so maybe it's just ignorable? If you want non-rectangular line breaking, just use the low level parts of Pango My opinion is that while there may be some cases where ignoring PangoLayout and starting from scratch is right ... we really want PangoLayout to be extensible to handle almost any case where we are taking a block of text and laying it out into lines. Because of the 8000 lines of code inside PangoLayout, the part that actually lays out the text is only a small fraction ... 1000-2000 lines of code. The rest is bookkeeping, rendering, iteration over the layout and so forth. There's a big patch from Damon Chaplin outstanding to redo the line layout part of Pango to add justification. I haven't had the time to fully review it yet. It's pretty darn complex. If it turns out that we can't just replace the current code wholesale, that patch may be a good point to look at making line-layout pluggable. Non-greedy linebreaking is very challenging to do with good internationalized shaping. (I think Damon spent some time trying to figure out and then gave up.) But if someone had a spare month, I think it's definitely possible. And I wouldn't mind shipping it with Pango, as long as it was optional. As well as performance considerations, it is just the wrong behavior for most interactive applications. Non-rectangular layout, on the other hand, is pretty easy. It's not totally trivial when you have mixed fonts within a line and thus uneven line spacing, but I think the main challenge there is simply coming up with a good interface for representing the shape to Pango. Regards, Owe

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Re: select arrowheads?
by bulia byak 17 Mar '05

17 Mar '05

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:59:15 -0800 (PST), John Cliff <simarilius@...36...> wrote: > What I'd hoped to do was make the default markers styleless, then to > xlink:href them from defs with a style applied (ala gradients and the > vectors), as they should be able to inherit then (or can they? that was > how i read it anyhow) > Problem is we dont support xlinked markers atm. and I didnt know where > to start adding support for it. Markers cannot href each other. So you'll have to simply duplicate a marker when applying style to its user path (only if the hrefcount of the marker is > 1, otherwise it's not needed). However the copied marker should carry some extrension attr indicating that it's a styled copy of another marker, for purposes of showing in the list only the markers which differ by contents, not style. > btw, other complication is that some markers are solid filled paths, > while others are just stroked, so you have to work out where to apply > the style. What you do if the marker refs a gradient I dont know :) I think it's possible to redraw all the basic markers (arrows, squares, etc) so that they look the same but only use stroke, no fill. This will simplify things a lot, as you'll just copy the new path style to marker and that will paint it the needed color. More elaborate markers will use fill too, in which case their fill color will be determined by that of the user path. Note that per SVG spec, unset stroke is invisible (unlike unset fill which is black), so in the original markers you will need to provide stroke:black on <marker>, and replace it with whatever is the user path's new style.

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Re:
by �� 17 Mar '05

17 Mar '05

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] Inkscape website with WordPress
by Jonathan Leighton 17 Mar '05

17 Mar '05

John Taber wrote: >My two cents - if the CMS or any other scripting thing does not really buy you >a must have or great to have that you can't do otherwise without a lot of >pain, then it's not worth it down the road. Warren Buffett swears by KISS so >I tend to think it is a good thing to strive for. If the CMS does buy a lot, >and if it's well done, then do it. > Yes, exactly. But there are different interpretations of this rule. I'd say that having an RSS feed is a fairly essential feature. I'd also say that maintaining a news section is a fairly essential feature. Now, the code for that needs to come from somewhere, and either someone on the Inkscape project has to write it, or we have to use publishing software from someone else. I think that by letting the WordPress developers deal with publishing and WordPress, it allows the Inkscape developers to get on with the task at hand: Inkscape. This is a simplistic view ('scuse the repetition), I know, and there are issues to consider, which Bryce explained extremely well, but when it comes down to it, I say let the publishing people deal with the publishing, and the Inkscape people deal with the Inkscaping. Just as an example: the only time you'd have to write (X)HTML with WordPress is when you want "advanced" things like blockquotes, lists, etc. All the paragraphing, validating (to an extent) and entity encoding is done for you, so you don't have to worry about it. The Inkscape website currently fails on validation due to non-validating news entries. Dates are also added automatically, so there's no chance of forgetting that. >I'll format my blogs simply using css (although even css doesn't work very well in IE for >customers stuck with that so maybe I'll just keep my blogs in simple html). > > I know quite a few people who would shoot you for saying that, although I'd rather they shot Microsoft ; ). Jon -- Jonathan Leighton aka. Turnip http://turnipspatch.com/ | http://digital-proof.org/

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multi-line text entry causes exception in cvs
by inkblotter 17 Mar '05

17 Mar '05

$ ./inkscape terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::out_of_range' what(): basic_string::replace Emergency save activated! [snip] public cvs, up-to-date this evening fc3, gcc 3.4.2 Steps to repeat: select the text tool enter some text and then hit CR to enter a multi-line text object *bang!* Happens every time. Aren't exceptions wonderful? I suspect things are changing in text handling at the moment, yes?

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Re: [cairo] Pango + cairo
by unknown＠example.com 17 Mar '05

17 Mar '05

Quoting Keith Packard <keithp@...579...>: > I'll read through the SVG spec and see whether this is always > true; it may be that SVG allows applications to request text > wrapping or embed newlines. Newlines in SVG text are just whitespace; they don't introduce a new line: http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/text.html#WhiteSpace However, SVG 1.2 introduces flowing text and graphics, where text flowing/wrapping is performed according to a specified greedy algorithm. http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG12/flow.html Speaking for Inkscape, we're currently in the progress of implementing support for this in Inkscape, and we do use pango for what we can, but I'm fairly certain we ended up having to do line breaking/wrapping ourselves as the required algorithm is very different from what Pango wants to do. (Admittedly, I'm not very personally involved with that part of the codebase these days so I might be off on some of the details; I'll CC the list in case anyone more familiar wants to correct me...) -mental

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Show Page Shadow Option
by Jon Phillips 16 Mar '05

16 Mar '05

I can't find the email where I said I would commit my "Show Page Shadow" option to the "Document Preferences" dialog. Anyhow, I added and tested it (I'm trying to make good on my backlog of promises). Now anyone may quickly set whether page shadow is on or off per-document via the "Document Preferences" dialog. If you would like to make it permanent, you can change your local preferences.xml under namedview by adding the attribute: showpageshadow="false" However, if you have the default.svg located by default at /usr/local/share/templates/default.svg on *nix, then you must add the aforementioned setting in namedview. Took me moment to track down where that conflict between preferences.xml and default.svg occurred. I think Jimmac and some others requested this and I don't like the cheesy "this is a document" page shadow either. Plus, it won't really be applicable when the documents are for animations, etc. Jon PS: Should I have made that atrribute "inkscape:showpageshadow" ??? I can change quickly if necessary. -- Jon Phillips USA PH 510.499.0894 jon@...235... http://www.rejon.org Inkscape (http://inkscape.org) Open Clip Art Library (www.openclipart.org) CVS Book (http://cvsbook.ucsd.edu) Scale Journal (http://scale.ucsd.edu)

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Re: [Scribus] Scribus on VNU.NET
by PLinnell 16 Mar '05

16 Mar '05

On Thursday 10 March 2005 20:15, Louis Desjardins wrote: > Hi everybody! > > The Frenchspeaking readers on this list will appreciate the > following link. It brings you to the Dossier published in Feb. 05 > in SVM Mac. There are no screenshots. However, there are many links > and a Fink how-to. > > http://svmmac.vnunet.fr/dossiers/logiciels/utilitaires/20050309001 > > Happy reading! > > Bonne lecture! > > Louis > _______________________________________________ > For those who are not French speakers or have not read the articles, the text version was very in depth group of articles about not just Scribus, but Inkscape and GIMP. For a major Mac publication to give it such broad coverage is in itself very significant.. To me, it says to their readers who might not truly understand OSS benefits, 'these are worthy applications'. What I found most pleasing was they highlighted the applications strengths: Inkscape's attention to UI detail and ease of use, along with prominently Scribus PDF export. Worth a look, if you can get it. Cheers, Peter

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] Inkscape website with WordPress
by Jonathan Leighton 16 Mar '05

16 Mar '05

John Taber wrote: >On Wednesday 16 March 2005 11:30, you wrote: > > >>>I'll format my blogs simply using css (although even css doesn't work very >>>well in IE for customers stuck with that so maybe I'll just keep my blogs >>>in simple html). >>> >>> >>I know quite a few people who would shoot you for saying that, although >>I'd rather they shot Microsoft ; ). >> >> > >I don't understand why - I wasted a whole weekend redesigning our site using >W3C standard CSS, testing on Mozilla and Konqueror then found out that it was >basically unreadable in IE. So I've gone back to lots of tables. > > Sorry, my comment was perhaps a little rude. I didn't mean it like that. Basically, standards advocates (myself included) say that developing semantic (ie. not using tables for presentation), standards compliant sites is very important. There are lots of reasons: it helps search engines understand your content more, makes your site more accessible (by separating content and presentation), smaller file sizes, etc. IE has crappy support for standards, which is where the fight begins. There are, however, ways to get around the IE difficulties including suicide, changing career, and forcing everyone to use Firefox. Errr, sorry, I mean browser specific "hacks" (filters), writing CSS in a more compatible "style", and some other little things to fix stuff as well (like for transparent PNGs). There is also a slight hope that one day Microsoft may decide to improve IE's standards support, but I personally think Firefox will take over sooner than that. If you're still interested in going the standards route, you might find the following links to be of use (particularly the first): * http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2004/04/30/a_roadmap_to/ * http://www.htmldog.com/ * http://www.positioniseverything.net/ This has gone wildly off topic though (sorry everyone!), so if you have any more questions feel free to email me direct and I'll do my best to help you out. Jon -- Jonathan Leighton aka. Turnip http://turnipspatch.com/ | http://digital-proof.org/

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NEW: converting node to smooth improved
by bulia byak 16 Mar '05

16 Mar '05

Kevin, I reviewed your page at http://www.angelfire.com/mi/kevincharles/inkscape/ncwf.htm - thanks for the detailed description. I just committed a fix to Inkscape CVS. Now you can achieve your result with a single click. In Node tool, either Ctrl+click the node, or select it and click the "Make selected node smooth" button. The node will get handles and its adjacent segments will become curves, but the neighbouring nodes will remain cusp.

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