January 2004 - Inkscape Devel

sorry to be so wordy!
by Jonathan Phillips 15 Jan '04

15 Jan '04

Inkscape, with dynamic offset, linked offset and the new node UI tweaks is very rockin' now to design with. I can literally churn out new graphics with it. Great work guys! The Boolean Ops and color palette are so excellent to work with now. GR8 WORK! Jon -- Jonathan Phillips <jon@...15...>

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Re: new offset commands
by bulia byak 15 Jan '04

15 Jan '04

> > - The simple Inset/Outset commands must check if the > > object is already an > > SPOffset, and if so, adjust its radius instead of > > converting it to shapes. > >the offset of an offset of shape A is not in general >another offset of A. what you want is mathematically >incorrect, but maybe what the user expects... That is, you mean that several sequential simple offsets of a path will give a different result than several sequential adjustments of an SPOffset radius? If so that is unfortunate, but if there's no mathematical workaround for this problem, I would still argue that the above described behavior is the most logical. An SPOffset is a higher level of abstraction than a path; if we can perform some operation without lowering the level of abstraction, we must do that, if only because lowering the level of abstraction is generally irreversible. > > - The dynamic offsets do not accept zero radius; > > they snap it to +/- 0.25, > > so you cannot do an exact copy of the original. Why > > this limitation? I tried > >0 width will cause problems, and imposing a minimum >radius was the simplest way around; besides what's the >point of doing a 0 offset? The point is that when I have an SPOffset, I normally use node tool to adjust its radius, and I don't want to have any preset value - I want to start from zero. Another point is that it's not clean to have different inset/outset commands for different offset types; it's much more logical to have one pair of inset/outset commands that act on any objects plus several commands that create (but not adjust) different kinds of offset objects. It's just a matter of a clean separation of concepts. And finally, an object with a parameter that cannot take one specific value (even though this value makes sense for it) is a lack of genericity and looks more like a bug to me. So, can you just add a special-case treatment in SPObject so that if radius is 0 (or very close to 0), it simply copies the original path without attempting any offset? _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/photos&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjo…

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new offset commands
by bulia byak 15 Jan '04

15 Jan '04

I added two new commands to the Path menu: Dynamic offset and Linked offset. Now simple Inset/Outset commands work on paths, and the two new commands create an "offset object" that can be dynamically adjusted by the node tool. The difference between them is that Dynamic offset transforms the selected object into an offset, while Linked offset adds a new offset object that is linked to the original path, so you can edit the original path and its linked offset will be updated. This is a very powerful tool and I'm really excited about it. Fred, there are some remaining problems where we need your help. It would be great to have them fixed for the upcoming release: - It appears that all offsets now use the imprecise algorithm (you once mentioned that there were two algorithms, one precise but slow and the othe imprecise but fast). I think we should use the precise algorithm for all kinds of offsets, dynamic or not. - The simple Inset/Outset commands must check if the object is already an SPOffset, and if so, adjust its radius instead of converting it to shapes. - The dynamic offsets do not accept zero radius; they snap it to +/- 0.25, so you cannot do an exact copy of the original. Why this limitation? I tried removing if (fabs (offset->rad) < 0.25) offset->rad = (offset->rad < 0) ? -0.25 : 0.25; in sp-offset.cpp but then setting zero radius caused the program to freeze. Is this a limitation of the algorithm? _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.ms…

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] Snap Control
by bulia byak 14 Jan '04

14 Jan '04

>Technically, while it's in the user manual, the user manual is in >French, and the English translation is very incomplete. Also note that >the manual was written for Sodipodi rather than Inkscape, so does not >yet address the new user interface, etc. I think it would be easier just to start over using Wiki. Whenever anyone has got a good idea (not necessarily 100% complete or even correct) of how some command, tool, dialog etc works, just take a couple minutes to visit Wiki and share your knowledge (on a page under User Documentation Scratchpad). Or when you have nothing better to do, edit and unify other's notes, add screenshots, etc. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.ms…

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RE: [Fwd: RE: [Inkscape-devel] Re: new offset commands]
by bulia byak 14 Jan '04

14 Jan '04

>I wonder though if it should keep the inverse and also have a black >border with an outer white border. It is much better, but still gets >lost sometimes. Thoughts? The outer white border, like on the mouse >pointer helps sooo much to pop out small nodes against dark colors. Double borders? Hmm, that's something even Inkscape cannot handle without some additional coding... Still, consider that we now have an edge over both Xara (which has inversion but no border in its knots) and Illustrator (which has border but no inversion). _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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[Fwd: RE: [Inkscape-devel] Re: new offset commands]
by Jonathan Phillips 14 Jan '04

14 Jan '04

Needless to say...Bulia, you are the shit! Cool! That is about a 1000X improvment on editing... I wonder though if it should keep the inverse and also have a black border with an outer white border. It is much better, but still gets lost sometimes. Thoughts? The outer white border, like on the mouse pointer helps sooo much to pop out small nodes against dark colors. Great WORK! Jon On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 13:42, bulia byak wrote: > >I think the node to edit the dynamic offset though should be black with > >white outline. Does anyone know how to change this. I think it is a > >major usability problem, seeming that our normal shapes on startup have > >a black border which renders this node invisible. > > I fixed this for the shapes' handles in node edit (offset, rect, spiral, > etc). They are now inverse, i.e. always visible. And even better than that, > they have a light gray but not inverse border, which helps if they are over > a 50% gray or when two knots are on top of each other. In other words, it's > now simply impossible to render a knot invisible no matter what is the > background. The path nodes are also made more bright and visible, and the > nodes and control handles are more different. Please report your experience. > > What strikes me most is that the code for showing knots in inverse was > already there, although not used. All I did is changed some flags and > adjusted colors. It never ceases to amaze me how much effort was put by > Sodipodi author into the program internals but how little he cared about > making this stuff actually usable. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/features&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin… -- Jonathan Phillips <jon@...15...>

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RE: [Inkscape-devel] USERMANUAL + ICONS
by bulia byak 14 Jan '04

14 Jan '04

>Is anyone familiar with the procedure on how to design and implement new >icons in the Inkscape Interface? It would be helpful if someone (bulia? >ahem... :) ) could take the time to lay-out how to do this for some >newbies to the project (DEFENDGUIN, myself, etc). My opinion on the desirable icon style is here: http://www.inkscape.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?IconsStyle Other than that, it's difficult to give advice. All I can say is that e.g. the group/ungroup and z-order icons are ugly and noisy, while the flip icons are OK. Icons IMHO must be simple and laconic, not "realistic" or "3D". Just go on and try to draw something and we'll comment :) As for the procedure, I think you draw new icons in glade/icons.svg, group each icon and assign an id= attribute to the <g> in the XML editor, and then you specify that id for the corresponding verb in verbs.cpp (the last component of each line of props[]). But I never tried that so I may be wrong. Try it and document what you find out. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.ms…

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RE: [Inkscape-devel] Re: new offset commands
by bulia byak 14 Jan '04

14 Jan '04

>I think the node to edit the dynamic offset though should be black with >white outline. Does anyone know how to change this. I think it is a >major usability problem, seeming that our normal shapes on startup have >a black border which renders this node invisible. I fixed this for the shapes' handles in node edit (offset, rect, spiral, etc). They are now inverse, i.e. always visible. And even better than that, they have a light gray but not inverse border, which helps if they are over a 50% gray or when two knots are on top of each other. In other words, it's now simply impossible to render a knot invisible no matter what is the background. The path nodes are also made more bright and visible, and the nodes and control handles are more different. Please report your experience. What strikes me most is that the code for showing knots in inverse was already there, although not used. All I did is changed some flags and adjusted colors. It never ceases to amaze me how much effort was put by Sodipodi author into the program internals but how little he cared about making this stuff actually usable. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/features&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin…

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USERMANUAL + ICONS
by Jonathan Phillips 14 Jan '04

14 Jan '04

Hello All, I've added a UserManual page to the wiki to at least facilitate this discussion and move us forward on developing this. Please take some time to think about the manual, possible time-schedule on the development of this, etc. http://inkscape.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UserManual Also, DEFENDGUIN and others have been asking about ICON development. We need to figure out where we stand on this? Do we want to develop ALL new icons, or replace some existing ones, or fill-in the ones we don't have completed? http://inkscape.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Icons Is anyone familiar with the procedure on how to design and implement new icons in the Inkscape Interface? It would be helpful if someone (bulia? ahem... :) ) could take the time to lay-out how to do this for some newbies to the project (DEFENDGUIN, myself, etc). Thanks, Jon -- Jonathan Phillips <jon@...15...>

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RE: [Inkscape-devel] Re: new offset commands
by bulia byak 14 Jan '04

14 Jan '04

>conversion touched a big portion of the code. you can >report any strange behavior in boolean operations and >offset to me. OK, see this bug: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=877019&group_id=9… The outline in splotch-bad.svg is really weird! Even though splotch-good.svg is OK - that's the old file I created a couple weeks ago (so I cannot quite understand how that can be - surely it does not store the algorithm in SVG??) And I had to reopen this old bug too, because the splotch is back: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=866838&group_id=9… _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.ms…

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