December 2010 - Inkscape Devel

Re: [Inkscape-devel] Inkscape-devel Digest, Vol 55, Issue 2
by Daniel Krause 03 Dec '10

03 Dec '10

Hello all: I've not been active for a while, but I wanted to begin again. My focus is the Technical Drafting portion of Inkscape. I've put together my thoughts in this document. I would love some feed back. https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1hSD8lW0Nv3Z3BHFXXg9vDsBI4U0CaWw1kP… I'm a bit selfish, as I am sick and tired of shelling out hundreds and thousands of dollars for the latest and greatest drafting software every few years. Having Inkscape be able to replace AutoCAD and Vectorworks would be the greatest gift I could every receive. You should all know that you have made a fantastic piece of software here. Thanks! -Dan www.danielkrausedesign.com 302 598 4162 On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 5:17 PM, < inkscape-devel-request(a)lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: > Send Inkscape-devel mailing list submissions to > inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > inkscape-devel-request(a)lists.sourceforge.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > inkscape-devel-owner(a)lists.sourceforge.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Inkscape-devel digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Notebooks in internal extensions > (J.B.C.Engelen@...1578...) > 2. Re : Notebooks in internal extensions (Nicolas Dufour) > 3. Re: Re : Notebooks in internal extensions > (J.B.C.Engelen@...1578...) > 4. Re: website (Jaros?aw Foksa) > 5. Re: website (Ian Caldwell) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 09:55:26 +0100 > From: <J.B.C.Engelen@...1578...> > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Notebooks in internal extensions > To: <nicoduf@...48...>, <inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net> > Message-ID: > < > EEEAA170F9750D449D15AEF17CE7ED6D0345AA03@...1579...> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nicolas Dufour [mailto:nicoduf@...48...] > > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 15:02 > > To: Inkscape Devel List > > Subject: [Inkscape-devel] Notebooks in internal extensions > > > > Hello, > > > > I'm currently trying to use a 3 tabs notebook in an internal > > extension (a filter with some options and two color > > selectors), but Inkscape crashes as soon as an > > ext->get_param_xxx function is called from the filter's code. > > Everything > > ext->works > > fine if I remove the notebook from the filter UI code. > > > > These functions use the parameters list of the extension (see > > extension/extension.cpp, line 427+) to return the requested > > value. The problem is that this list, which is also used to > > create the UI, only contains the first level parameters, and > > when using a notebook, the notebook's parameters only (but > > not what's inside it). > > ParamNotebook (extension/param/notebook.cpp, line 64+) has > > it's own lists (one for each page), which are also used to > > create the pages' UI, and contain all the parameters that > > should be (but currently are not) accessible from the > > extension's get_param functions in order to make notebooks > > work as expected. > > > > Since it's not possible to add the notebook's pages > > parameters to the extension's ones (it would break the UI), I > > plan to add a new private merged list in Extension::Extension > > and a public Extension::add_param function to allow > > parameters addition from the notebook code. > > > > Could an extension expert (Ted, Johan?) advise me? > > Hi Nicolas, > Perhaps I can have a look at it this evening. I think the fix would be > to have the get_param functions do something like a > notebookparam->get_param if the extension's parameter is a > ParamNotebook. (right?) > > Ciao, > Johan > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 10:29:03 +0000 (GMT) > From: Nicolas Dufour <nicoduf@...48...> > Subject: [Inkscape-devel] Re : Notebooks in internal extensions > To: J.B.C.Engelen@...1578..., inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > Message-ID: <958479.56148.qm@...2088...> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Johan, > > Thanks for your answer! > > > > De : "J.B.C.Engelen@...1578..." <J.B.C.Engelen@...1578...> > > Perhaps I can have a look at it this evening. I think the fix would be > > to have the get_param functions do something like a > > notebookparam->get_param if the extension's parameter is a > > ParamNotebook. (right?) > > It was my first guess, but how do you find the parameter's type from its > name > (there's no "get_param_type" function or public "type" var in parameter.cpp > and > notebook.cpp)? > > Regards, > -- > Nicolas > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 14:46:45 +0100 > From: <J.B.C.Engelen@...1578...> > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Re : Notebooks in internal extensions > To: <nicoduf@...48...>, <inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net> > Message-ID: > < > EEEAA170F9750D449D15AEF17CE7ED6D0345AB6C@...1579...> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nicolas Dufour [mailto:nicoduf@...48...] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 11:29 > > To: Engelen, J.B.C. (Johan); inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > > Subject: [Inkscape-devel] Re : Notebooks in internal extensions > > > > Hi Johan, > > > > Thanks for your answer! > > > > > > > De : "J.B.C.Engelen@...1578..." <J.B.C.Engelen@...1578...> > > > Perhaps I can have a look at it this evening. I think > > the fix would > > > be to have the get_param functions do something like a > > > notebookparam->get_param if the extension's parameter is a > > > ParamNotebook. (right?) > > > > It was my first guess, but how do you find the parameter's > > type from its name (there's no "get_param_type" function or > > public "type" var in parameter.cpp and notebook.cpp)? > > >From the top of my head I can think up two solutions: > - Make a virtual get_sub_param function in Extension::Parameter that > does nothing. And override that method in Extension::ParamNotebook. > - Or (ugly) do dynamic type cast to check for param type > ("dynamic_cast<>") > > I'd go for the first option, and rewrite Extension::param_shared (and > rename to get_param). > I find the method somewhat strange. Seems better to me, to rewrite it > without using recursion: > (not my best piece of code, but I hope the idea is clear) > > Parameter * > Extension::get_param (const gchar * name) > { > if (name == NULL) { > throw Extension::param_not_exist(); > } > if (this->parameters == NULL) { > // the list of parameters is empty > throw Extension::param_not_exist(); > } > > for (GSList * list = this->parameters; list != NULL; list = > g_slist_next(list)) { > Parameter * param = static_cast<Parameter*>(list->data); > if (!strcmp(param->name(), name)) { > return param; > } else { > Parameter * subparam = param->get_param(name); > if (subparam) { > return subparam; > } > } > } > > // if execution reaches here, no parameter matching 'name' was found > throw Extension::param_not_exist(); > } > > > Then for example get_param_string would become: > const gchar * > Extension::get_param_string (const gchar * name, const SPDocument * doc, > const Inkscape::XML::Node * node) > { > Parameter * param; > > param = get_param(name); > return param->get_string(doc, node); > } > > > > Extension::Parameter::get_param(const gchar * /*name*/) > { > return NULL; > } > > > Extension::ParamNotebook::get_param(const gchar * /*name*/) > { > here a loop similar to Extension::get_param > } > > > Hope these pieces of (pseudo)code help, > Johan > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 19:28:56 +0100 > From: Jaros?aw Foksa <jarek@...2504...> > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] website > To: inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > Message-ID: > <AANLkTinwrFBDQ3jv8CDGdFRp4cCjsjL0g7xu-Ows5cxD@...401...> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I remember that back in 2008 we had simillar discussions - Chris was > advocating Django, I wanted Drupal, there was a lot of talk but we > ended up with the old site. > > Development Seed (http://developmentseed.org/) was offering volunteer > work on new inkscape.org site few months ago. Is this proposal still > actual? They are one of the best shops you could find - perhaps it > would be best to let them lead the development if they agree so. > > On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Ian Caldwell <inchosting@...400...> > wrote: > > hello, > > > > It's been a good long while since I've emailed the mailing list I am a > part > > of the server management involving inkscape and have been for > approximately > > 4+ years. I am writing you today for 2 reasons. > > > > Our current site is terrible, I'm sorry but there is no chance of just > > brushing over it. I know there have been a fair number of people in the > past > > 2 years who have submitted website mockup ideas and we've had contests > but > > no one has ever followed through. Which I'll take partial blame for it. > > Things are just scattered every which way > > I wanted to update you on the status of the Test suite, Osuosl is > currently > > in the process of setting up the ability to run test suites so that we > can > > test the SVG building more?efficiently. So stay tuned for more info on > this > > in the near future. > > > > Anyway back to problem 1. Here's how I think we can best solve this > problem. > > We're going to break the website into different categories and duties. > > > > UI (mockups) (*ARTIST*/PROGRAMMERS*) > > > > Ability to make mockups of how you think the website should look. > > After we pick yours we will request to see the top couple in HTML/CSS > > > > Artwork for the website (*ARTIST*) > > > > Ability to develop / sharpen logos as well as various buttons etc as > needed > > > > Drupal Modules (*PROGRAMMERS*) > > > > Skills required > > > > Knowledge of Mysql/PHP/JS and HTML > > Knowledge or ability to learn how drupal works > > > > Documentation (*WRITERS*) > > > > Skills > > > > Moderate knowledge and ability to update and port existing content over > to > > the new site. > > > > Translation > > > > We need people who specialize in various languages to port content once > > completed into the various languages. > > > > So what's wrong with the current design? a lot, it's way too cluttered > and > > disorganized not to mention you click wiki you go to a whole different > > navigation and sub site. That is just a pain to deal with as a user. So > if > > you have skills in 1 of the above 5 categories, please contact me or the > > list directly and we'll assemble the a team and get this going! let me > know > > what you think.... > > Thanks, > > Ian "Inc" C. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! > > Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by > > optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the > > Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for > grabs. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev > > _______________________________________________ > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 14:17:16 -0800 > From: Ian Caldwell <inchosting@...400...> > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] website > To: Jaros?aw Foksa <jarek@...2504...> > Cc: inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > Message-ID: > <AANLkTin7aCd=GVqPrC7On8fD7ztTyndYcsa5wr5yTdDY@...401...> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > yup, completely understandable. I have contacted the people from > developmentseed that originally offered to help with the new website prior > to sending this email and I have yet to hear anything back..... so I'm not > real hopeful and it's time for us to make a move. So we're starting with > mockups. If you have a backway to contact them and they're still willing > we're more than willing... > Thanks, > Ian > > 2010/12/1 Jaros?aw Foksa <jarek@...2504...> > > > I remember that back in 2008 we had simillar discussions - Chris was > > advocating Django, I wanted Drupal, there was a lot of talk but we > > ended up with the old site. > > > > Development Seed (http://developmentseed.org/) was offering volunteer > > work on new inkscape.org site few months ago. Is this proposal still > > actual? They are one of the best shops you could find - perhaps it > > would be best to let them lead the development if they agree so. > > > > On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Ian Caldwell <inchosting@...400...> > > wrote: > > > hello, > > > > > > It's been a good long while since I've emailed the mailing list I am a > > part > > > of the server management involving inkscape and have been for > > approximately > > > 4+ years. I am writing you today for 2 reasons. > > > > > > Our current site is terrible, I'm sorry but there is no chance of just > > > brushing over it. I know there have been a fair number of people in the > > past > > > 2 years who have submitted website mockup ideas and we've had contests > > but > > > no one has ever followed through. Which I'll take partial blame for it. > > > Things are just scattered every which way > > > I wanted to update you on the status of the Test suite, Osuosl is > > currently > > > in the process of setting up the ability to run test suites so that we > > can > > > test the SVG building more efficiently. So stay tuned for more info on > > this > > > in the near future. > > > > > > Anyway back to problem 1. Here's how I think we can best solve this > > problem. > > > We're going to break the website into different categories and duties. > > > > > > UI (mockups) (*ARTIST*/PROGRAMMERS*) > > > > > > Ability to make mockups of how you think the website should look. > > > After we pick yours we will request to see the top couple in HTML/CSS > > > > > > Artwork for the website (*ARTIST*) > > > > > > Ability to develop / sharpen logos as well as various buttons etc as > > needed > > > > > > Drupal Modules (*PROGRAMMERS*) > > > > > > Skills required > > > > > > Knowledge of Mysql/PHP/JS and HTML > > > Knowledge or ability to learn how drupal works > > > > > > Documentation (*WRITERS*) > > > > > > Skills > > > > > > Moderate knowledge and ability to update and port existing content over > > to > > > the new site. > > > > > > Translation > > > > > > We need people who specialize in various languages to port content once > > > completed into the various languages. > > > > > > So what's wrong with the current design? a lot, it's way too cluttered > > and > > > disorganized not to mention you click wiki you go to a whole different > > > navigation and sub site. That is just a pain to deal with as a user. So > > if > > > you have skills in 1 of the above 5 categories, please contact me or > the > > > list directly and we'll assemble the a team and get this going! let me > > know > > > what you think.... > > > Thanks, > > > Ian "Inc" C. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! > > > Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by > > > optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the > > > Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for > > grabs. > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > > Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! > > Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by > > optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the > > Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for > grabs. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev > > _______________________________________________ > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > > >

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Notebooks in internal extensions
by Nicolas Dufour 03 Dec '10

03 Dec '10

Hello, I'm currently trying to use a 3 tabs notebook in an internal extension (a filter with some options and two color selectors), but Inkscape crashes as soon as an ext->get_param_xxx function is called from the filter's code. Everything works fine if I remove the notebook from the filter UI code. These functions use the parameters list of the extension (see extension/extension.cpp, line 427+) to return the requested value. The problem is that this list, which is also used to create the UI, only contains the first level parameters, and when using a notebook, the notebook's parameters only (but not what's inside it). ParamNotebook (extension/param/notebook.cpp, line 64+) has it's own lists (one for each page), which are also used to create the pages' UI, and contain all the parameters that should be (but currently are not) accessible from the extension's get_param functions in order to make notebooks work as expected. Since it's not possible to add the notebook's pages parameters to the extension's ones (it would break the UI), I plan to add a new private merged list in Extension::Extension and a public Extension::add_param function to allow parameters addition from the notebook code. Could an extension expert (Ted, Johan?) advise me? Regards. -- Nicolas

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website
by Ian Caldwell 02 Dec '10

02 Dec '10

hello, It's been a good long while since I've emailed the mailing list I am a part of the server management involving inkscape and have been for approximately 4+ years. I am writing you today for 2 reasons. 1. Our current site is terrible, I'm sorry but there is no chance of just brushing over it. I know there have been a fair number of people in the past 2 years who have submitted website mockup ideas and we've had contests but no one has ever followed through. Which I'll take partial blame for it. Things are just scattered every which way 2. I wanted to update you on the status of the Test suite, Osuosl is currently in the process of setting up the ability to run test suites so that we can test the SVG building more efficiently. So stay tuned for more info on this in the near future. Anyway back to problem 1. Here's how I think we can best solve this problem. We're going to break the website into different categories and duties. 1. UI (mockups) (*ARTIST*/PROGRAMMERS*) - Ability to make mockups of how you think the website should look. - After we pick yours we will request to see the top couple in HTML/CSS 2. Artwork for the website (*ARTIST*) - Ability to develop / sharpen logos as well as various buttons etc as needed 3. Drupal Modules (*PROGRAMMERS*) - Skills required - Knowledge of Mysql/PHP/JS and HTML - Knowledge or ability to learn how drupal works 4. Documentation (*WRITERS*) - Skills - Moderate knowledge and ability to update and port existing content over to the new site. 5. Translation - We need people who specialize in various languages to port content once completed into the various languages. So what's wrong with the current design? a lot, it's way too cluttered and disorganized not to mention you click wiki you go to a whole different navigation and sub site. That is just a pain to deal with as a user. So if you have skills in 1 of the above 5 categories, please contact me or the list directly and we'll assemble the a team and get this going! let me know what you think.... Thanks, Ian "Inc" C.

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Website redesign discussion (purely the aesthetic talk)
by Josh Andler 02 Dec '10

02 Dec '10

Hey All, I had seen a well done comparison of the Blender website with the alternative commercial tools websites by Andrew Price. I was putting together a similar comparison for vector apps but the websites vary a bit more and reading what he had done is sufficient enough for people to get the point. I think that his analysis is just as valid for Inkscape's website too. Visit http://www.blenderguru.com/the-big-issues/ and do a quick search for "marketing" and scroll down just a little to see what his observations were. At this point I have to say that we should really follow a similar approach for our redesign too. Following are the links to a few commercial alternatives in the vector editor category, to compare their sites to ours. http://www.adobe.com/products/illustrator/ http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite/us/en/Product/1281109933608 http://www.xara.com/us/products/designer/ http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/design_overview.aspx My main observation? 3D software is marketed much more nicely and I actually think we should approach the redesign in a similar way. Realistically I think we can be a bit more playful with the design, but we should have something that communicates what inkscape is and what it's capable of in a better way for non-existing users. What are other people's thoughts? If most people think the "similar to 3d apps websites" approach is good, I will post something to deviantart requesting designs there too. Cheers, Josh

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] website
by Chris Morgan 01 Dec '10

01 Dec '10

See for yourself by comparing the designs. Things like omitting the sidebar completely, doing the footer menu well, doing the primary/secondary links ideally, squeezing a language selection block into the header - they're mostly *possible* with Drupal, but they don't fit well with the normal design and tend to require some custom PHP code in the template, rather than Just Working. When I say "too hard" I mean that it was too hard for me to do at that point when I was just creating a prototype of it all. Some, like the primary and secondary links, would have come back properly a little later on, but the thing is they require *work* in Drupal, while in Django the system can be designed that way at a lower level, more friendlily. (For example, instead of having a "language block" which is just a fixed block, you can easily have a template which manages the HTML for the block completely). Working with Drupal yourself extensively, you may disagree with me on the "too hard" - but I hope you'll see what I mean, anyway. On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Donna Benjamin <donna@...2156...> wrote: > On Thu, 2010-11-25 at 11:39 +1100, Chris Morgan wrote: > > Some elements in duckgoesoink's design I had changed for > > no good reason other than that in Drupal it would be too hard to do it > > another way. > > Which elements? > > -- > Donna Benjamin - Executive Director > Creative Contingencies - http://cc.com.au > ph +61 3 9326 9985 - mob +61 418 310 414 > open source - facilitation - web services > >

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